Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
It will mean something different to different people, and in the way not everyone who is woke will consider themselves woke, some people will be anti-woke without thinking of it that way.
Cyclefree said this earlier 'on woke-ism' commenting on a Casino poist,which I think was a worthy comment:
the difference between being awake to and dealing with oppression and its consequences vs a somewhat narcissistic insistence on symbolic gesture and telling people what to think unaccompanied by any effective action to help people.
Kinabalu has argued that, even in the absence of action, better to be woke than non-woke at least, which is an interesting point, but I think the key is that anti-woke does not necessarily mean someone rejects an identification of the problems which those labelled (by themselves or opponents) as woke have raised, or even rejects all of the potential solutions.
So one can no more reject all those who an anti-woke than reject all those who are woke.
There will be people who are performatively opposed or in support of things, who get dramatically mad about some college woke drama or partake in some college woke drama, but there are also those who take a more nuanced view. I think Casino has said enough about concerns about genuine problems in these areas that his opposition to some 'woke' measures is not rooted in inherent opposition to its social aims.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
Whereas moaning about taking down statues is really productive of course.......
It will be a tiny minority but I have no doubt that some of those who hate colonial era statues being taken down are at the same time passionate about racial equality. When they see energy being expanded on such trivia it fills them with frustration that it is not instead being channeled into practical steps to lessen white privilege. Hats off to such individuals.
Was disappointed that no journalist asked how long it takes a Premier League footballer to earn £800.
Taking what I presume to be the point of that post further, should all govt fines be more related to income and net worth? Given inequality is ever widening I think it should be looked at and thought about. Perhaps not directly proportional but a govt fine should hurt a millionaire in roughly the same order of magnitude as it would hurt an average person.
Exceptions for more minor infractions like parking tickets etc are okay.
Annoying the right people is always a stupid reason for doing something, but given it likely means nothing in respect of the relationship annoying such people is fine.
And what a defeatest - 'any prospect' is lost because of moving a bust? Get a grip, Nige.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
If "wokism" is being someone who is awake to the issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc., we can assume anti-wokism is being asleep to these issues, or perhaps it is just being a racist, sexist homophobe. As a slightly right of centre person I don't consider my self to be excessively "woke" , but I certainly would not want to be it's antithesis.
The symbolism of removing statues is starting to come across as virtue-signalling and in some cases even smacks of burying rather than celebrating Black history. Instead of hiding a statue of someone who made money from slaves, why not write a big cheque that might actually help their descendants?
The City of London are simply taking action to innoculate themselves from future criticism. Once they'd started this consultation they had to identify something or that criticism would never have ended.
I actually responsed to this consultation (which wasn't acknowledged). I said it was a distraction and they should examine how more internships, mentoring and coaching programmes could be established to increase opportunities and in-career support for underrepresented ethnic minorities. I said more role models, networks and contacts were needed and these need to go out into schools and communities. I also said this shouldn't forget the poorer white working class, who are not getting much attention at the moment, but are often bottom of the educational attainment pyramid.
I'm not holding my breath on any of that.
I'm not sure what any of those things have to do with statues.
Yeah, silly me. I forgot the protests last year were really all about statues.
Not about achieving a step-change in racial equality and fairness.
But which is most important iyo - to achieve racial equality or to stamp out virtue signaling?
The latter is a distraction at best, and an obstacle at worst, to the former.
You've dodged my simple question! It was a deadly serious one. Much rides on the answer.
Clearly there is concern in government about the number of rule breakers. Presumably compliance is deteriorating.
Cracking down on flagrant idiocy needs to be stepped up.
Yes but surely that is just the cabinet getting worried about increasing competition for cabinet jobs now that more people are exhibiting these behaviours?
Clearly there is concern in government about the number of rule breakers. Presumably compliance is deteriorating.
Cracking down on flagrant idiocy needs to be stepped up.
How?
Better intelligence gathering, more visible policing, a dedicated hotline to report parties/raves/etc.
The bigger fines announced today might act as a deterrent. But not to footballers. Or 'influencers'. Coz they are special.
Nah, you're dealing with bored and fed up members of the general public who are disinterested in obeying Covid regulations - not organised crime. Intelligence doesn't come into it, in any sense of the word. I'm not sure where the police are meant to find extra bodies to drive up and down residential streets to put these people off, given that there aren't that many of them and a significant fraction are probably off sick at any one time at the moment, but I doubt that would be particularly effective in any event. Hotlines won't make any difference because curtain twitching types will shop the neighbours unprompted anyway. And £800 fines won't put people off because the £10,000 fines already in force haven't put a stop to it, and besides those responsible mostly don't think about the consequences and don't believe they'll be unlucky enough to be caught even if they do.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
It will mean something different to different people, and in the way not everyone who is woke will consider themselves woke, some people will be anti-woke without thinking of it that way.
Cyclefree said this earlier 'on woke-ism' commenting on a Casino poist,which I think was a worthy comment:
the difference between being awake to and dealing with oppression and its consequences vs a somewhat narcissistic insistence on symbolic gesture and telling people what to think unaccompanied by any effective action to help people.
Kinabalu has argued that, even in the absence of action, better to be woke than non-woke at least, which is an interesting point, but I think the key is that anti-woke does not necessarily mean someone rejects an identification of the problems which those labelled (by themselves or opponents) as woke have raised, or even rejects all of the potential solutions.
So one can no more reject all those who an anti-woke than reject all those who are woke.
There will be people who are performatively opposed or in support of things, who get dramatically mad about some college woke drama or partake in some college woke drama, but there are also those who take a more nuanced view. I think Casino has said enough about concerns about genuine problems in these areas that his opposition to some 'woke' measures is not rooted in inherent opposition to its social aims.
Ah good, you saw my PT note on that. Thanks for the acknowledgment.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
If "wokism" is being someone who is awake to the issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc., we can assume anti-wokism is being asleep to these issues, or perhaps it is just being a racist, sexist homophobe. As a slightly right of centre person I don't consider my self to be excessively "woke" , but I certainly would not want to be it's antithesis.
I suspect that is why, while not liking the term, most people objecting to what they see as counterproductive 'woke' actions, would themselves not like the term anti-woke given it woule be likely to be portrayed that way.
There isn't some binary choice between being awake to such issues and being asleep to them, there is surely a range of how 'awake' people are to them, and what actions they think should be taken in response to those issues. Reasonable people will disagree on the severity and urgency of issues and how to respond to them, without being some modern day caveman.
However, there will be such people as well of course. I think it right most of us would wish to err on the side of overdoing things than doing nothing. But would not want to be lumped in with those with no concerns at all.
You know why all the journalists are obsessed by holidays... they have just come back from their Christmas ones and now looking to book their summer ones.
Because this is something that needs to be shared widely.
Surreal as it was to hear Donald Trump mark the end of his presidency by blasting out YMCA (famously a song about trying to hook up with young men in the showers at a Christian hostel) another of his musical choices struck us as a bit unusual too.
One of the other songs Trump chose to play as he left the White House for the final time was Gloria by Laura Branigan. Originally an Italian song, Gloria was first brought to the attention of English-speaking audiences by a British hit-maker who gave it a translated set of English lyrics... Jonathan King.
Curious to see what QAnon makes of that.
Obviously it'd be like throwing laxatives into the monkey house.
Its not a good analogy because the government is telling people its 1944, when the raids from the Luftwaffe were few and far between and had been replaced by V weapons, against which the blackout was totally useless.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
If "wokism" is being someone who is awake to the issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc., we can assume anti-wokism is being asleep to these issues, or perhaps it is just being a racist, sexist homophobe. As a slightly right of centre person I don't consider my self to be excessively "woke" , but I certainly would not want to be it's antithesis.
I suspect that is why, while not liking the term, most people objecting to what they see as counterproductive 'woke' actions, would themselves not like the term anti-woke given it woule be likely to be portrayed that way.
There isn't some binary choice between being awake to such issues and being asleep to them, there is surely a range of how 'awake' people are to them, and what actions they think should be taken in response to those issues. Reasonable people will disagree on the severity and urgency of issues and how to respond to them, without being some modern day caveman.
However, there will be such people as well of course. I think it right most of us would wish to err on the side of overdoing things than doing nothing. But would not want to be lumped in with those with no concerns at all.
It is indeed complex, though I suspect that many people who whinge and moan about "woke" are often those who might also start a sentence with " I am not racist, but...."
Because this is something that needs to be shared widely.
Surreal as it was to hear Donald Trump mark the end of his presidency by blasting out YMCA (famously a song about trying to hook up with young men in the showers at a Christian hostel) another of his musical choices struck us as a bit unusual too.
One of the other songs Trump chose to play as he left the White House for the final time was Gloria by Laura Branigan. Originally an Italian song, Gloria was first brought to the attention of English-speaking audiences by a British hit-maker who gave it a translated set of English lyrics... Jonathan King.
Curious to see what QAnon makes of that.
Obviously it'd be like throwing laxatives into the monkey house.
America doesn't care about the yewtreeing of furriners. You still hear Gary Glitter (Rock n Roll Pt 2) played here from time to time.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
If "wokism" is being someone who is awake to the issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc., we can assume anti-wokism is being asleep to these issues, or perhaps it is just being a racist, sexist homophobe. As a slightly right of centre person I don't consider my self to be excessively "woke" , but I certainly would not want to be it's antithesis.
I suspect that is why, while not liking the term, most people objecting to what they see as counterproductive 'woke' actions, would themselves not like the term anti-woke given it woule be likely to be portrayed that way.
There isn't some binary choice between being awake to such issues and being asleep to them, there is surely a range of how 'awake' people are to them, and what actions they think should be taken in response to those issues. Reasonable people will disagree on the severity and urgency of issues and how to respond to them, without being some modern day caveman.
However, there will be such people as well of course. I think it right most of us would wish to err on the side of overdoing things than doing nothing. But would not want to be lumped in with those with no concerns at all.
It is indeed complex, though I suspect that many people who whinge and moan about "woke" are often those who might also start a sentence with " I am not racist, but...."
There will be such an element. How large an element would be a matter of dispute, I am sure, as with how large an element the more performative wokists is compared to people who are merely more open to recognising issues and doing something.
Washington Post (Style Section) - Inside the stretch limo where ‘Tiger King’ star Joe Exotic’s team waited for a pardon that never came
by Maura Judkis - It was an unusual day on the job for Jerry Debose, a Fort Worth limousine driver. He pilots a 2019 Dodge Ram “super-stretch turbo diesel” limo — “the longest limo in Dallas,” he claims. It has disco floors, indoor and outdoor seating, two sound systems and a light show. He’s used to carrying carloads of bachelorettes out to bars, prom-goers to hotel ballrooms and visiting celebrities to fancy restaurants.
His assignment on Tuesday was different.
“That was my first time taking it to a jail,” Debose says.
Debose had been hired to pick up Joseph Maldonado-Passage, the eccentric former private zoo owner better known as Joe Exotic from the Netflix documentary series “Tiger King,” at the federal prison where he is serving a 22-year sentence for violating federal wildlife laws and for his role in a murder-for-hire plot targeting his professional rival, tiger sanctuary owner Carole Baskin. . . .
Debose pulled up to the law offices of Francisco Hernandez in the super-stretch turbo diesel limo at 10:30 a.m. The mood there, he says, was jubilant. . . . .
So confident was Team Tiger of Exotic’s imminent release that it also hired a hairdresser, who was waiting in Debose’s limo to coif Exotic’s signature platinum-blonde mullet. “He doesn’t want anyone to see him until his hair is done,” Love told an ABC News affiliate.
Love even spoke of swinging by McDonald’s to get Exotic a McRib sandwich. . . .
Evening came. No call from Washington.
Rental rates for the super-stretch truck limousine at Heaven on Wheels, Debose’s employer, start at $165 an hour, not counting Debose’s driver fees (which he declined to share). . . .
He finally drove members of the legal team to the jail, but just for a brief newsconference where the lawyers declared Exotic was innocent. Finally, around 10:30 p.m., Debose was released from duty. He drove the lawyers back to their offices and dropped them off in the parking lot.
The list of 143 pardons, released after midnight, included former presidential adviser Stephen K. Bannon, Trump fundraiser Elliott Broidy and rapper Lil Wayne.
It did not include Joe Exotic . . . .
It was a fitting sideshow to the end of the Trump administration, with the elements that defined it: celebrity, unfounded confidence, appeals to showmanship and a hankering for McDonald’s.
Still, it was a great day for Debose. He was paid to eat steak and do mostly nothing. He even got on the news. The driver had been told to remain on call Wednesday, in case Exotic’s fortunes changed at the last minute.
“I was a little disappointed that we didn’t actually get a chance to pick him up yesterday,” Debose says. He says he enjoyed “Tiger King” and believes Exotic, who is not due for release until 2037, deserved that pardon.
Well, yes. America IS quite obviously in relative decline. It's GDP as a proportion of world GDP has been sliding for two or three decades.
And, just in case you missed it, the other day they had an insurrection which took over the most important building in the country, and came close to success, urged on by a maniacal idiot who somehow got 74 million votes.
If that isn't a symptom of political and societal decline, what is?
Add in all the other problems - from opioids to rising crime to gun law - and Allister Heath's prognosis looks plausible. Let's hope he is wrong, however, because a declining America means a declining West. And China supreme.
Well, yes. America IS quite obviously in relative decline. It's GDP as a proportion of world GDP has been sliding for two or three decades.
And, just in case you missed it, the other day they had an insurrection which took over the most important building in the country, and came close to success, urged on by a maniacal idiot who somehow got 74 million votes.
If that isn't a symptom of political and societal decline, what is?
Add in all the other problems - from opioids to rising crime to gun law - and Allister Heath's prognosis looks plausible. Let's hope he is wrong, however, because a declining America means a declining West. And China supreme.
Because this is something that needs to be shared widely.
Surreal as it was to hear Donald Trump mark the end of his presidency by blasting out YMCA (famously a song about trying to hook up with young men in the showers at a Christian hostel) another of his musical choices struck us as a bit unusual too.
One of the other songs Trump chose to play as he left the White House for the final time was Gloria by Laura Branigan. Originally an Italian song, Gloria was first brought to the attention of English-speaking audiences by a British hit-maker who gave it a translated set of English lyrics... Jonathan King.
Curious to see what QAnon makes of that.
Obviously it'd be like throwing laxatives into the monkey house.
BTW, seems that IF you order a "MyPillow" from Trumpsky's personal sandman, Mike Lindell, AND you use the code "QAnon" you get a 40% discount on your purchase!
Wonder if the folks peddling "Trumpy Bear" have the same deal?
OR those who got an 11th-hour POTUS pardon? Perhaps Joe Exotic is just a cheapskate!
Because this is something that needs to be shared widely.
Surreal as it was to hear Donald Trump mark the end of his presidency by blasting out YMCA (famously a song about trying to hook up with young men in the showers at a Christian hostel) another of his musical choices struck us as a bit unusual too.
One of the other songs Trump chose to play as he left the White House for the final time was Gloria by Laura Branigan. Originally an Italian song, Gloria was first brought to the attention of English-speaking audiences by a British hit-maker who gave it a translated set of English lyrics... Jonathan King.
Curious to see what QAnon makes of that.
Obviously it'd be like throwing laxatives into the monkey house.
America doesn't care about the yewtreeing of furriners. You still hear Gary Glitter (Rock n Roll Pt 2) played here from time to time.
The Joan Jett cover "I love Rock and Roll" version is played a lot.
What about Jenrick? He'll intervene surely. Ok it says "City of London votes to ..." but that fools no-one. Somewhere along the line there will have been pressure from a baying mob.
Those derivatives traders are easily whipped up to a frenzy.
Yes. The City has clearly changed a lot since my time. What is still to this day the most reactionary event I have ever attended was a formal dinner at Butchers Hall for The Worshipful Company Of Butchers. Talk about your traditional values. Just about every traditional value you can think of was showcased to the max.
I was as critical as anyone of the confusing messaging and the ridiculous false sentimentality in the run-up to Christmas, which probably actually killed people. But although at 71 I suppose I'm in line to get a vaccination by Feb 15, really I'm not inclined to grumble if it's Feb 20 or 28.
It's right to urge all possible speed on the programme, but we should recognise that it's a big operation and hitches will occur - I'm not minded to give either the Government or Pfizer a hard time over that. People should focus on the serious issues, such as what gap between first and second jabs is actually safe.
It's classic gesture politics. It is much, much easier to announce more rules and maximum penalties than to enforce those you actually have, especially since individual situations are often messy and ambiguous, and the police usually overburdened and often sympathetic.
Because this is something that needs to be shared widely.
Surreal as it was to hear Donald Trump mark the end of his presidency by blasting out YMCA (famously a song about trying to hook up with young men in the showers at a Christian hostel) another of his musical choices struck us as a bit unusual too.
One of the other songs Trump chose to play as he left the White House for the final time was Gloria by Laura Branigan. Originally an Italian song, Gloria was first brought to the attention of English-speaking audiences by a British hit-maker who gave it a translated set of English lyrics... Jonathan King.
Curious to see what QAnon makes of that.
Obviously it'd be like throwing laxatives into the monkey house.
America doesn't care about the yewtreeing of furriners. You still hear Gary Glitter (Rock n Roll Pt 2) played here from time to time.
The awkward thing is: it is a bloody good pop song, and a genuinely rousing anthem to play in stadiums.
Adding what to the debate? For starters, what sort of -ism is this? There's things like anarchism, about how you'd like thinks to be, and things like monism or deism about how you think things are. Which have you identified here?
Personally I would hand out £800 fines for more than 15 people being smug in the same forum . Could raise a lot of money from politicalbetting recently
Personally I would hand out £800 fines for more than 15 people being smug in the same forum . Could raise a lot of money from politicalbetting recently
So long as there is no fine for people being snide as well.
Because this is something that needs to be shared widely.
Surreal as it was to hear Donald Trump mark the end of his presidency by blasting out YMCA (famously a song about trying to hook up with young men in the showers at a Christian hostel) another of his musical choices struck us as a bit unusual too.
One of the other songs Trump chose to play as he left the White House for the final time was Gloria by Laura Branigan. Originally an Italian song, Gloria was first brought to the attention of English-speaking audiences by a British hit-maker who gave it a translated set of English lyrics... Jonathan King.
Curious to see what QAnon makes of that.
Obviously it'd be like throwing laxatives into the monkey house.
America doesn't care about the yewtreeing of furriners. You still hear Gary Glitter (Rock n Roll Pt 2) played here from time to time.
The Joan Jett cover "I love Rock and Roll" version is played a lot.
There's also Doctorin' the Tardis which rather besmirches the reputation of the KLF.
Adding what to the debate? For starters, what sort of -ism is this? There's things like anarchism, about how you'd like thinks to be, and things like monism or deism about how you think things are. Which have you identified here?
It's a form of handwringing, a type of moral panic about falling standards. It's been going on for millennia.
I was as critical as anyone of the confusing messaging and the ridiculous false sentimentality in the run-up to Christmas, which probably actually killed people. But although at 71 I suppose I'm in line to get a vaccination by Feb 15, really I'm not inclined to grumble if it's Feb 20 or 28.
It's right to urge all possible speed on the programme, but we should recognise that it's a big operation and hitches will occur - I'm not minded to give either the Government or Pfizer a hard time over that. People should focus on the serious issues, such as what gap between first and second jabs is actually safe.
It occurred to me today - perhaps rather belatedly - that vaccinations might well become compulsory. Like wearing a seatbelt in a car, or a crash helmet on a motorbike, or many other things that were once obviously optional, and no one ever thought they might become mandatory.
Well, yes. America IS quite obviously in relative decline. It's GDP as a proportion of world GDP has been sliding for two or three decades.
And, just in case you missed it, the other day they had an insurrection which took over the most important building in the country, and came close to success, urged on by a maniacal idiot who somehow got 74 million votes.
If that isn't a symptom of political and societal decline, what is?
Add in all the other problems - from opioids to rising crime to gun law - and Allister Heath's prognosis looks plausible. Let's hope he is wrong, however, because a declining America means a declining West. And China supreme.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
It can mean many things to many people..
Nihilists For Independence @Nihilists4Indy God and the Union are both deid and we killt them. Listen to the @AngryScotland podcast. Or don't. It doesn't matter. Nothing matters.
Nothing wrong with houses being built there - it's the refusal to dredge the rivers based on EU regulations and enforced by the environment agency that is the issue. Now we've left the EU, a this is something that can be re-assessed.
I was as critical as anyone of the confusing messaging and the ridiculous false sentimentality in the run-up to Christmas, which probably actually killed people. But although at 71 I suppose I'm in line to get a vaccination by Feb 15, really I'm not inclined to grumble if it's Feb 20 or 28.
It's right to urge all possible speed on the programme, but we should recognise that it's a big operation and hitches will occur - I'm not minded to give either the Government or Pfizer a hard time over that. People should focus on the serious issues, such as what gap between first and second jabs is actually safe.
The big problem at the moment is that, having published a clear priority order for the vaccinations, the Government is failing, or at least giving the strong impression of failing, to ensure that it is stuck to through making a hash of distributing the doses evenly.
As we know from arguments over NHS care dating back decades, one of the things that people most detest are postcode lotteries. When you get stories coming out of generally fit seventy year olds in some parts of the country getting lanced, when jabbing of doddery old ducks in care homes has barely started in others, then this is bound to generate an avalanche of complaints.
Adding what to the debate? For starters, what sort of -ism is this? There's things like anarchism, about how you'd like thinks to be, and things like monism or deism about how you think things are. Which have you identified here?
It's a form of handwringing, a type of moral panic about falling standards. It's been going on for millennia.
I do agree in general terms, there are quite a few issues where I think people really over do the 'woe is us' stuff about civilizational decline and such, there's a peverse pleasure taken in it sometimes, though I would contrast declinism with merely having a negative perception of where things are going. Tight line to walk.
Nothing wrong with houses being built there - it's the refusal to dredge the rivers based on EU regulations and enforced by the environment agency that is the issue. Now we've left the EU, a this is something that can be re-assessed.
What's going on in Italy with vaccinations, the past 4-5 days slowed right down. Are they out of supply?
Pfizer have reduced deliveries all over Europe. Hospitals here stopped vaccinating with a few hours notice because expected doses weren't delivered. Pfizer are making themselves very unpopular, I think they could have handled the issues better.
The issue is that the EU upped it's order really late in the day, if they had made an order of 600m back in November when the trial results were made available those manufacturing upgrades could have been done before mass deliveries had started. This is literally happening now because the EU have asked for 300m more doses this year above the original order.
Actually it's slightly more complicated than that, as you probably know. And Pfizer have unilaterally reduced supplies with almost no notice, which has understandably annoyed people.
They did it to meet the promised H2 supply to the EU in the additional 300m order. I think you're blaming the wrong people for this. It's the incompetent people in the commission that didn't order enough when there was no manufacturing pressure that are at fault.
What did Kate Bingham say, something about building the plane while it's taxiing towards the runway and taking off. The EU have asked Pfizer to fix the plane after its taken off, you can't really blame Pfizer for that.
Max, do you know whether we're being hit here in the UK by Pfizer slowing down of deliveries?
We are yes. One of our corporate intelligence people has it that all countries other than the US will see some capacity reductions until the end of February but the majority of the reductions are to EU27 supply because the manufacturing upgrades are being done at their behest.
Umm so Pfizer had nothing to do with an order placed with Pfizer? Bizarre
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the EU, but if someone said to me without warning "we're reducing your delivery of this time critical stuff you ordered months ago by 50% this week, but it's your fault because you made an additional order (which we agreed to) 3 months ago", I would also be quite annoyed.
Because this is something that needs to be shared widely.
Surreal as it was to hear Donald Trump mark the end of his presidency by blasting out YMCA (famously a song about trying to hook up with young men in the showers at a Christian hostel) another of his musical choices struck us as a bit unusual too.
One of the other songs Trump chose to play as he left the White House for the final time was Gloria by Laura Branigan. Originally an Italian song, Gloria was first brought to the attention of English-speaking audiences by a British hit-maker who gave it a translated set of English lyrics... Jonathan King.
Curious to see what QAnon makes of that.
Obviously it'd be like throwing laxatives into the monkey house.
America doesn't care about the yewtreeing of furriners. You still hear Gary Glitter (Rock n Roll Pt 2) played here from time to time.
The Joan Jett cover "I love Rock and Roll" version is played a lot.
It is similar, but it is a different song from the Gary Glitter one. The original of the Joan Jett cover was by the Arrows.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
Personally I would hand out £800 fines for more than 15 people being smug in the same forum . Could raise a lot of money from politicalbetting recently
Presumably the real smuggies on a betting forum would have won more than enough to pay it.
I was as critical as anyone of the confusing messaging and the ridiculous false sentimentality in the run-up to Christmas, which probably actually killed people. But although at 71 I suppose I'm in line to get a vaccination by Feb 15, really I'm not inclined to grumble if it's Feb 20 or 28.
It's right to urge all possible speed on the programme, but we should recognise that it's a big operation and hitches will occur - I'm not minded to give either the Government or Pfizer a hard time over that. People should focus on the serious issues, such as what gap between first and second jabs is actually safe.
It occurred to me today - perhaps rather belatedly - that vaccinations might well become compulsory. Like wearing a seatbelt in a car, or a crash helmet on a motorbike, or many other things that were once obviously optional, and no one ever thought they might become mandatory.
I don't know about vaccinations, but I bet we're stuck with masks forever. Whether it'll be all year or just for the six months between October and March each year for the rest of time I'm not really sure, but you can certainly imagine the justification for the latter already. Stop Flu, Protect the NHS, Save Lives...
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
I thought declinism meant a theatrically negative, overly-pessimistic perspective on a society's future, Fings Aint Wot They Used to Be and all that.
In which case, maybe yours is a perfect example. Britain is definitely in a bit of a pickle, but I do not believe a mob of people in warpaint and Viking helmets, firmly of the belief that millions of children are being secretly abused by Yvette Cooper in a network of underground labyrinths, will be successfully storming Westminster in 2024.
Republicans in Arizona are going to get the forensic audit of Presidential ballots they demanded in the key Maricopa County of the state after election officials dropped a court case trying to stop them.
When the audit finds there was no significant election fraud, that may actually go a long way to healing divisions in the country and discrediting Trump's claims.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
If "wokism" is being someone who is awake to the issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc., we can assume anti-wokism is being asleep to these issues, or perhaps it is just being a racist, sexist homophobe. As a slightly right of centre person I don't consider my self to be excessively "woke" , but I certainly would not want to be it's antithesis.
The terms 'awake' and 'alseep' are value judgements. 'Concerned' and 'not concerned' would be more accurate.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
It will mean something different to different people, and in the way not everyone who is woke will consider themselves woke, some people will be anti-woke without thinking of it that way.
Cyclefree said this earlier 'on woke-ism' commenting on a Casino poist,which I think was a worthy comment:
the difference between being awake to and dealing with oppression and its consequences vs a somewhat narcissistic insistence on symbolic gesture and telling people what to think unaccompanied by any effective action to help people.
Kinabalu has argued that, even in the absence of action, better to be woke than non-woke at least, which is an interesting point, but I think the key is that anti-woke does not necessarily mean someone rejects an identification of the problems which those labelled (by themselves or opponents) as woke have raised, or even rejects all of the potential solutions.
So one can no more reject all those who an anti-woke than reject all those who are woke.
There will be people who are performatively opposed or in support of things, who get dramatically mad about some college woke drama or partake in some college woke drama, but there are also those who take a more nuanced view. I think Casino has said enough about concerns about genuine problems in these areas that his opposition to some 'woke' measures is not rooted in inherent opposition to its social aims.
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the EU, but if someone said to me without warning "we're reducing your delivery of this time critical stuff you ordered months ago by 50% this week, but it's your fault because you made an additional order (which we agreed to) 3 months ago", I would also be quite annoyed.
It rather depends on what Pfizer told the EU when they were negotiating that additional order.
If it is the case that this additional order has caused this delay, then it could be a massive error by the EU. This is because there's a pretty good chance that by the time Pfizer have enough capacity to begin making up for the lost ground, other vaccines may well have been approved and in mass production, and so the extra Pfizer capacity will be less crucial in public-health terms than the ones being delayed now. In the meantime, lives will have been lost.
Nothing wrong with houses being built there - it's the refusal to dredge the rivers based on EU regulations and enforced by the environment agency that is the issue. Now we've left the EU, a this is something that can be re-assessed.
I was as critical as anyone of the confusing messaging and the ridiculous false sentimentality in the run-up to Christmas, which probably actually killed people. But although at 71 I suppose I'm in line to get a vaccination by Feb 15, really I'm not inclined to grumble if it's Feb 20 or 28.
It's right to urge all possible speed on the programme, but we should recognise that it's a big operation and hitches will occur - I'm not minded to give either the Government or Pfizer a hard time over that. People should focus on the serious issues, such as what gap between first and second jabs is actually safe.
It occurred to me today - perhaps rather belatedly - that vaccinations might well become compulsory. Like wearing a seatbelt in a car, or a crash helmet on a motorbike, or many other things that were once obviously optional, and no one ever thought they might become mandatory.
I don't know about vaccinations, but I bet we're stuck with masks forever. Whether it'll be all year or just for the six months between October and March each year for the rest of time I'm not really sure, but you can certainly imagine the justification for the latter already. Stop Flu, Protect the NHS, Save Lives...
This time next year almost no-one will be wearing a mask. Prediction.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
Everyone on PB is using the word "declinism" wrongly, apart from me. Clear evidence that the site is in terrible and unstoppable decline.
What about Jenrick? He'll intervene surely. Ok it says "City of London votes to ..." but that fools no-one. Somewhere along the line there will have been pressure from a baying mob.
Those derivatives traders are easily whipped up to a frenzy.
Yes. The City has clearly changed a lot since my time. What is still to this day the most reactionary event I have ever attended was a formal dinner at Butchers Hall for The Worshipful Company Of Butchers. Talk about your traditional values. Just about every traditional value you can think of was showcased to the max.
I trust you asked to see the vegetarian menu?
Now that would have taken ... courage.
But as it happens I like to gnaw on a leg every so often.
Just to be clear, I'm not defending the EU, but if someone said to me without warning "we're reducing your delivery of this time critical stuff you ordered months ago by 50% this week, but it's your fault because you made an additional order (which we agreed to) 3 months ago", I would also be quite annoyed.
It rather depends on what Pfizer told the EU when they were negotiating that additional order.
If it is the case the this additional order has caused this delay, then it could be a massive error by the EU, because there's a pretty good chance that by the time Pfizer have enough capacity to begin making up for the lost ground, other vaccines may well be approved and in mass production, and so the extra Pfizer capacity will be less crucial in public-health terms than the ones being delayed now. In the meantime, lives will have been lost.
I haven't heard any suggestion that Pfizer told anyone that ordering more would delay existing orders, I would have thought they should say that if it's the case given the strength of criticism they are getting for these apparently unexpected reductions
Nothing wrong with houses being built there - it's the refusal to dredge the rivers based on EU regulations and enforced by the environment agency that is the issue. Now we've left the EU, a this is something that can be re-assessed.
The state of this...
Because you know so much about the issue?
There would be no flooding if it wasn’t for EU regulations aye? You’re deranged. Just like your obsession with veganism being the cause of all ills.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
I think this most accurately describes Britain's prospects right now:
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
Everyone on PB is using the word "declinism" wrongly, apart from me. Clear evidence that the site is in terrible and unstoppable decline.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
I was as critical as anyone of the confusing messaging and the ridiculous false sentimentality in the run-up to Christmas, which probably actually killed people. But although at 71 I suppose I'm in line to get a vaccination by Feb 15, really I'm not inclined to grumble if it's Feb 20 or 28.
It's right to urge all possible speed on the programme, but we should recognise that it's a big operation and hitches will occur - I'm not minded to give either the Government or Pfizer a hard time over that. People should focus on the serious issues, such as what gap between first and second jabs is actually safe.
It occurred to me today - perhaps rather belatedly - that vaccinations might well become compulsory. Like wearing a seatbelt in a car, or a crash helmet on a motorbike, or many other things that were once obviously optional, and no one ever thought they might become mandatory.
I don't know about vaccinations, but I bet we're stuck with masks forever. Whether it'll be all year or just for the six months between October and March each year for the rest of time I'm not really sure, but you can certainly imagine the justification for the latter already. Stop Flu, Protect the NHS, Save Lives...
Yes, agreed, masks will be with us for years. Every winter. Maybe forever.
Lots of people have noticed how colds and flus are much less prevalent this winter....
My point about vaccinations arose from reading a Times piece today (£££), on how "some forms" of lockdown might have to become permanent, because enough people will resist taking the vaccine for the disease to remain a real problem, and a terrible strain on the NHS.
That's the point at which vaccinations might become compulsory, I reckon (should this prediction come true). Why should the 80% of sensible people who have accepted a jab, have to tolerate a fecked economy and crocked health system, because 15% of people are wilfully selfish, deluded or stupid? ie antivaxxers?
Answer: they won't tolerate it, in the end. You will have your jab whether you want it or not.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
I've always thought declinism is specifically about having an overly nostalgic view of the goodness of the past and therefore the negative prospects of the future.
That is, I've always considered it a pejorative term based on pessimisn and rose coloured assessments of the past. In contrast to simply believing the short, medium or long term is likely to see problems (which may well be accurate), declinism being the overindulgence of pessimism as some morbid fascination with assuming things to be their worst.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
Everyone on PB is using the word "declinism" wrongly, apart from me. Clear evidence that the site is in terrible and unstoppable decline.
Not everyone. I declined the opportunity to voice an opinion.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
In PPP terms, the IMF currently has the top 10 economies in this order:
China USA India Japan Germany Russia Indonesia Brazil UK France
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
In PPP terms, the IMF currently has the top 10 economies in this order:
China USA India Japan Germany Russia Indonesia Brazil UK France
So we're above France, I call that an absolute win.
It's classic gesture politics. It is much, much easier to announce more rules and maximum penalties than to enforce those you actually have, especially since individual situations are often messy and ambiguous, and the police usually overburdened and often sympathetic.
I thought we'd tried income-based fines for traffic offences.
Well, yes. America IS quite obviously in relative decline. It's GDP as a proportion of world GDP has been sliding for two or three decades.
And, just in case you missed it, the other day they had an insurrection which took over the most important building in the country, and came close to success, urged on by a maniacal idiot who somehow got 74 million votes.
If that isn't a symptom of political and societal decline, what is?
Add in all the other problems - from opioids to rising crime to gun law - and Allister Heath's prognosis looks plausible. Let's hope he is wrong, however, because a declining America means a declining West. And China supreme.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
I thought the issue was people over-asserting their moral principles, as in judging historic figures by their own modern standards. Nihilism seems to be the opposite criticism.
Can someone please give a coherent statement of what anti-wokism is about?
If "wokism" is being someone who is awake to the issues of racism, sexism, homophobia etc., we can assume anti-wokism is being asleep to these issues, or perhaps it is just being a racist, sexist homophobe. As a slightly right of centre person I don't consider my self to be excessively "woke" , but I certainly would not want to be it's antithesis.
The terms 'awake' and 'asleep' are value judgements. 'Concerned' and 'not concerned' would be more accurate.
That's a good point. You can be acutely aware of racial injustice but not give a shit.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
In PPP terms, the IMF currently has the top 10 economies in this order:
China USA India Japan Germany Russia Indonesia Brazil UK France
So we're above France, I call that an absolute win.
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
Everyone on PB is using the word "declinism" wrongly, apart from me. Clear evidence that the site is in terrible and unstoppable decline.
Declinism isn't what it used to be.
You mean, people don't get their Latin grammar right any more?
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
I've always thought declinism is specifically about having an overly nostalgic view of the goodness of the past and therefore the negative prospects of the future.
That is, I've always considered it a pejorative term based on pessimisn and rose coloured assessments of the past. In contrast to simply believing the short, medium or long term is likely to see problems (which may well be accurate), declinism being the overindulgence of pessimism as some morbid fascination with assuming things to be their worst.
Yes. Spot on. That's what declinism is. And applying it to analyses of America or Britain right now is wrong, because both ARE - as a matter of fact- in relative decline, like pretty much every western nation.
The original comment was, however, directed at America. Allister Heath makes some interesting points, backed up with significant evidence. I did not know, for instance, that labour mobility had *declined* so much in the USA in recent years.
Republicans in Arizona are going to get the forensic audit of Presidential ballots they demanded in the key Maricopa County of the state after election officials dropped a court case trying to stop them.
When the audit finds there was no significant election fraud, that may actually go a long way to healing divisions in the country and discrediting Trump's claims.
Let us hope so.
Did you do what I suggested and start prepping Trumpian spaces for some healing?
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
Everyone on PB is using the word "declinism" wrongly, apart from me. Clear evidence that the site is in terrible and unstoppable decline.
Well, yes. America IS quite obviously in relative decline. It's GDP as a proportion of world GDP has been sliding for two or three decades.
And, just in case you missed it, the other day they had an insurrection which took over the most important building in the country, and came close to success, urged on by a maniacal idiot who somehow got 74 million votes.
If that isn't a symptom of political and societal decline, what is?
Add in all the other problems - from opioids to rising crime to gun law - and Allister Heath's prognosis looks plausible. Let's hope he is wrong, however, because a declining America means a declining West. And China supreme.
It is indeed a relative decline, but that is because the US achieved full luxury capitalism first. Once everyone has all mod-cons, a car in every garage, etc any further improvements are incremental, so as the rest of the world catches up, yes the US is no longer as fully out-in-front as it once was. Yes, there are lots more problems in the US: the hollowing-out of the middle class; decaying infrastructure; a structural issue of just how do we maintain employment if there are lower-cost alternatives elsewhere. The US is not alone facing these issues though: even China is losing manufacturing jobs to lower-cost economies such as Vietnam, and everywhere will have to deal with the inexorable rise of automation into more and more spheres.
Nothing wrong with houses being built there - it's the refusal to dredge the rivers based on EU regulations and enforced by the environment agency that is the issue. Now we've left the EU, a this is something that can be re-assessed.
Dredging rivers won't make up for the propensity to develop willy nilly on flood plains and increased flooding from increased climate energy.
Politico.com - How lawmakers trapped in the House stood their ground A handful of House members who were in the chamber recount how they fought off rioters during the deadly Jan. 6 attacks.
by Olivia Beavers - It was shortly after rioters had breached the Capitol on Jan. 6 and the scene inside the building was chaotic.
Authorities deployed tear gas in Statuary Hall, rioters were heading to the House chamber, members were being told to put on gas masks, and the Capitol Police were clearly outnumbered.
Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.), one of the dozens of lawmakers inside the House chamber, first leapt into action, helping an officer barricade the door on the House floor that leads to Statuary Hall. Texas freshman Reps. Troy Nehls, Tony Gonzales [R-Ohio], Pat Fallon [R-Texas] and Ronny Jackson [R-Texas], a Navy veteran, also soon joined Mullin in preparing to defend the chamber. . . .
Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.), a former Army Ranger who served three tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, had been watching the election certification debate from the House gallery along with other House members, staffers and a host of reporters.
Mullin said he called on Crow, a friend of his, to help evacuate the rest of the people out of the gallery. . . . .
If you want proper declinism, then the current UK is a much stronger example.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
We're still the 5th largest economy. How people can describe that as declinism baffles me.
Everyone on PB is using the word "declinism" wrongly, apart from me. Clear evidence that the site is in terrible and unstoppable decline.
Declinism isn't what it used to be.
Make declinism great again!
Trump truly would be good for that task, given how people get even more pessimistic than they need be with him. Probably.
Politico.com - How lawmakers trapped in the House stood their ground A handful of House members who were in the chamber recount how they fought off rioters during the deadly Jan. 6 attacks.
by Olivia Beavers - It was shortly after rioters had breached the Capitol on Jan. 6 and the scene inside the building was chaotic.
Authorities deployed tear gas in Statuary Hall, rioters were heading to the House chamber, members were being told to put on gas masks, and the Capitol Police were clearly outnumbered.
Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.), one of the dozens of lawmakers inside the House chamber, first leapt into action, helping an officer barricade the door on the House floor that leads to Statuary Hall. Texas freshman Reps. Troy Nehls, Tony Gonzales [R-Ohio], Pat Fallon [R-Texas] and Ronny Jackson [R-Texas], a Navy veteran, also soon joined Mullin in preparing to defend the chamber. . . .
Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.), a former Army Ranger who served three tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, had been watching the election certification debate from the House gallery along with other House members, staffers and a host of reporters.
Mullin said he called on Crow, a friend of his, to help evacuate the rest of the people out of the gallery. . . . .
Democrat and Republican lawmakers being friends? Unnatural in this modern age, I hope someone breaks them up.
Taking down statues is a substitute for doing something useful.
It's a form of narcissism; the most public form of virtue-signalling there is.
It's the utter nihilism of it that gets me.
You might want to find out what "nihilism" means, because it doesn't really seem to fit with what you're trying to say.
Actually it does, as backed up by the OED, see the historical term.
It can mean many things to many people..
Nihilists For Independence @Nihilists4Indy God and the Union are both deid and we killt them. Listen to the @AngryScotland podcast. Or don't. It doesn't matter. Nothing matters.
The only thing that matters is your own experience because you can know nothing else. But your own experience doesn't matter a jot in the grand scheme of things. Thus the only thing that matters does not matter. So nothing really matters. Nothing really matters. At all.
Well, yes. America IS quite obviously in relative decline. It's GDP as a proportion of world GDP has been sliding for two or three decades.
And, just in case you missed it, the other day they had an insurrection which took over the most important building in the country, and came close to success, urged on by a maniacal idiot who somehow got 74 million votes.
If that isn't a symptom of political and societal decline, what is?
Add in all the other problems - from opioids to rising crime to gun law - and Allister Heath's prognosis looks plausible. Let's hope he is wrong, however, because a declining America means a declining West. And China supreme.
It is indeed a relative decline, but that is because the US achieved full luxury capitalism first. Once everyone has all mod-cons, a car in every garage, etc any further improvements are incremental, so as the rest of the world catches up, yes the US is no longer as fully out-in-front as it once was. Yes, there are lots more problems in the US: the hollowing-out of the middle class; decaying infrastructure; a structural issue of just how do we maintain employment if there are lower-cost alternatives elsewhere. The US is not alone facing these issues though: even China is losing manufacturing jobs to lower-cost economies such as Vietnam, and everywhere will have to deal with the inexorable rise of automation into more and more spheres.
Acrually, automation may just save us from the grievous problems of ageing, dwindling populations.
Italy's population is quickly shrinking. Ditto Korea. Japan. And so on.
Politico.com - How lawmakers trapped in the House stood their ground A handful of House members who were in the chamber recount how they fought off rioters during the deadly Jan. 6 attacks.
by Olivia Beavers - It was shortly after rioters had breached the Capitol on Jan. 6 and the scene inside the building was chaotic.
Authorities deployed tear gas in Statuary Hall, rioters were heading to the House chamber, members were being told to put on gas masks, and the Capitol Police were clearly outnumbered.
Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.), one of the dozens of lawmakers inside the House chamber, first leapt into action, helping an officer barricade the door on the House floor that leads to Statuary Hall. Texas freshman Reps. Troy Nehls, Tony Gonzales [R-Ohio], Pat Fallon [R-Texas] and Ronny Jackson [R-Texas], a Navy veteran, also soon joined Mullin in preparing to defend the chamber. . . .
Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.), a former Army Ranger who served three tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, had been watching the election certification debate from the House gallery along with other House members, staffers and a host of reporters.
Mullin said he called on Crow, a friend of his, to help evacuate the rest of the people out of the gallery. . . . .
Hope for the future if Rs and Ds can work together..
Is 'lawmakers' a generic term for politicians in the states or more specific?
Comments
Cyclefree said this earlier 'on woke-ism' commenting on a Casino poist,which I think was a worthy comment:
the difference between being awake to and dealing with oppression and its consequences vs a somewhat narcissistic insistence on symbolic gesture and telling people what to think unaccompanied by any effective action to help people.
Kinabalu has argued that, even in the absence of action, better to be woke than non-woke at least, which is an interesting point, but I think the key is that anti-woke does not necessarily mean someone rejects an identification of the problems which those labelled (by themselves or opponents) as woke have raised, or even rejects all of the potential solutions.
So one can no more reject all those who an anti-woke than reject all those who are woke.
There will be people who are performatively opposed or in support of things, who get dramatically mad about some college woke drama or partake in some college woke drama, but there are also those who take a more nuanced view. I think Casino has said enough about concerns about genuine problems in these areas that his opposition to some 'woke' measures is not rooted in inherent opposition to its social aims.
Exceptions for more minor infractions like parking tickets etc are okay.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1759791.stm
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1352312141328621570?s=20
There isn't some binary choice between being awake to such issues and being asleep to them, there is surely a range of how 'awake' people are to them, and what actions they think should be taken in response to those issues. Reasonable people will disagree on the severity and urgency of issues and how to respond to them, without being some modern day caveman.
However, there will be such people as well of course. I think it right most of us would wish to err on the side of overdoing things than doing nothing. But would not want to be lumped in with those with no concerns at all.
Part of it is the Woke Wars, but the writer also has some compelling stats on the decline of American ingenuity, innovation and worker mobility.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/20/britain-needs-biden-succeed-us-decline-might-now-unstoppable/
Even if you disagree, well worth a read
Because this is something that needs to be shared widely.
Surreal as it was to hear Donald Trump mark the end of his presidency by blasting out YMCA (famously a song about trying to hook up with young men in the showers at a Christian hostel) another of his musical choices struck us as a bit unusual too.
One of the other songs Trump chose to play as he left the White House for the final time was Gloria by Laura Branigan. Originally an Italian song, Gloria was first brought to the attention of English-speaking audiences by a British hit-maker who gave it a translated set of English lyrics... Jonathan King.
Curious to see what QAnon makes of that.
Obviously it'd be like throwing laxatives into the monkey house.
https://twitter.com/wigmore_hall/status/1352313949392416771
by Maura Judkis - It was an unusual day on the job for Jerry Debose, a Fort Worth limousine driver. He pilots a 2019 Dodge Ram “super-stretch turbo diesel” limo — “the longest limo in Dallas,” he claims. It has disco floors, indoor and outdoor seating, two sound systems and a light show. He’s used to carrying carloads of bachelorettes out to bars, prom-goers to hotel ballrooms and visiting celebrities to fancy restaurants.
His assignment on Tuesday was different.
“That was my first time taking it to a jail,” Debose says.
Debose had been hired to pick up Joseph Maldonado-Passage, the eccentric former private zoo owner better known as Joe Exotic from the Netflix documentary series “Tiger King,” at the federal prison where he is serving a 22-year sentence for violating federal wildlife laws and for his role in a murder-for-hire plot targeting his professional rival, tiger sanctuary owner Carole Baskin. . . .
Debose pulled up to the law offices of Francisco Hernandez in the super-stretch turbo diesel limo at 10:30 a.m. The mood there, he says, was jubilant. . . . .
So confident was Team Tiger of Exotic’s imminent release that it also hired a hairdresser, who was waiting in Debose’s limo to coif Exotic’s signature platinum-blonde mullet. “He doesn’t want anyone to see him until his hair is done,” Love told an ABC News affiliate.
Love even spoke of swinging by McDonald’s to get Exotic a McRib sandwich. . . .
Evening came. No call from Washington.
Rental rates for the super-stretch truck limousine at Heaven on Wheels, Debose’s employer, start at $165 an hour, not counting Debose’s driver fees (which he declined to share). . . .
He finally drove members of the legal team to the jail, but just for a brief newsconference where the lawyers declared Exotic was innocent. Finally, around 10:30 p.m., Debose was released from duty. He drove the lawyers back to their offices and dropped them off in the parking lot.
The list of 143 pardons, released after midnight, included former presidential adviser Stephen K. Bannon, Trump fundraiser Elliott Broidy and rapper Lil Wayne.
It did not include Joe Exotic . . . .
It was a fitting sideshow to the end of the Trump administration, with the elements that defined it: celebrity, unfounded confidence, appeals to showmanship and a hankering for McDonald’s.
Still, it was a great day for Debose. He was paid to eat steak and do mostly nothing. He even got on the news. The driver had been told to remain on call Wednesday, in case Exotic’s fortunes changed at the last minute.
“I was a little disappointed that we didn’t actually get a chance to pick him up yesterday,” Debose says. He says he enjoyed “Tiger King” and believes Exotic, who is not due for release until 2037, deserved that pardon.
“We all make mistakes,” the driver says.
And, just in case you missed it, the other day they had an insurrection which took over the most important building in the country, and came close to success, urged on by a maniacal idiot who somehow got 74 million votes.
If that isn't a symptom of political and societal decline, what is?
Add in all the other problems - from opioids to rising crime to gun law - and Allister Heath's prognosis looks plausible. Let's hope he is wrong, however, because a declining America means a declining West. And China supreme.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2016/02/29/u-s-role-in-global-economy-declines-nearly-50/?sh=c6546125e9e7
Wonder if the folks peddling "Trumpy Bear" have the same deal?
OR those who got an 11th-hour POTUS pardon? Perhaps Joe Exotic is just a cheapskate!
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1352214811933892613
It's right to urge all possible speed on the programme, but we should recognise that it's a big operation and hitches will occur - I'm not minded to give either the Government or Pfizer a hard time over that. People should focus on the serious issues, such as what gap between first and second jabs is actually safe.
Kind of like the pop equivalent of Wagner.
Adding what to the debate? For starters, what sort of -ism is this? There's things like anarchism, about how you'd like thinks to be, and things like monism or deism about how you think things are. Which have you identified here?
IF so, might explain (somewhat) your take on America.
Because "declinism" has been a Louisiana cottage industry since (at least) 1803.
Should add that in the Pelican State, the decline is NOT just cultural. It's also - thanks to massive subsidence of wetlands - also geographical.
Much Agriculture and all Fisheries is now on the brink of collapse. Manufacturing is finally going to the wall and over 100,000 small businesses are crippled. Logistics rates to and from the UK are up over 7x what they were 18 months ago. Over 20% of capital formerly controlled by the City of London has already left at a time when Fintech is rendering vast numbers of financial products, and the jobs they sustain, obsolete.
Permacrisis is on its way, But its OK because a government that still hands out Orders of the British Empire and peerages to scions of the KGB- but clearly had not read the critical economic deal they signed with Brussels with hours to spare- is showing the EU it means business by failing to do what 132 other countries do and recognize EU diplomats as diplomats, because that´ll show em.
Baby Trump is still set to be in power for another 4 years. I expect by the time his time is up that Westminster will be being besieged by the mob too.
Nihilists For Independence
@Nihilists4Indy
God and the Union are both deid and we killt them. Listen to the @AngryScotland
podcast. Or don't. It doesn't matter. Nothing matters.
As we know from arguments over NHS care dating back decades, one of the things that people most detest are postcode lotteries. When you get stories coming out of generally fit seventy year olds in some parts of the country getting lanced, when jabbing of doddery old ducks in care homes has barely started in others, then this is bound to generate an avalanche of complaints.
In which case, maybe yours is a perfect example. Britain is definitely in a bit of a pickle, but I do not believe a mob of people in warpaint and Viking helmets, firmly of the belief that millions of children are being secretly abused by Yvette Cooper in a network of underground labyrinths, will be successfully storming Westminster in 2024.
Republicans in Arizona are going to get the forensic audit of Presidential ballots they demanded in the key Maricopa County of the state after election officials dropped a court case trying to stop them.
When the audit finds there was no significant election fraud, that may actually go a long way to healing divisions in the country and discrediting Trump's claims.
If it is the case that this additional order has caused this delay, then it could be a massive error by the EU. This is because there's a pretty good chance that by the time Pfizer have enough capacity to begin making up for the lost ground, other vaccines may well have been approved and in mass production, and so the extra Pfizer capacity will be less crucial in public-health terms than the ones being delayed now. In the meantime, lives will have been lost.
But as it happens I like to gnaw on a leg every so often.
Lots of people have noticed how colds and flus are much less prevalent this winter....
My point about vaccinations arose from reading a Times piece today (£££), on how "some forms" of lockdown might have to become permanent, because enough people will resist taking the vaccine for the disease to remain a real problem, and a terrible strain on the NHS.
That's the point at which vaccinations might become compulsory, I reckon (should this prediction come true). Why should the 80% of sensible people who have accepted a jab, have to tolerate a fecked economy and crocked health system, because 15% of people are wilfully selfish, deluded or stupid? ie antivaxxers?
Answer: they won't tolerate it, in the end. You will have your jab whether you want it or not.
That is, I've always considered it a pejorative term based on pessimisn and rose coloured assessments of the past. In contrast to simply believing the short, medium or long term is likely to see problems (which may well be accurate), declinism being the overindulgence of pessimism as some morbid fascination with assuming things to be their worst.
China
USA
India
Japan
Germany
Russia
Indonesia
Brazil
UK
France
The original comment was, however, directed at America. Allister Heath makes some interesting points, backed up with significant evidence. I did not know, for instance, that labour mobility had *declined* so much in the USA in recent years.
Did you do what I suggested and start prepping Trumpian spaces for some healing?
A handful of House members who were in the chamber recount how they fought off rioters during the deadly Jan. 6 attacks.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/21/house-capitol-riots-lawmakers-stood-their-ground-460965
by Olivia Beavers - It was shortly after rioters had breached the Capitol on Jan. 6 and the scene inside the building was chaotic.
Authorities deployed tear gas in Statuary Hall, rioters were heading to the House chamber, members were being told to put on gas masks, and the Capitol Police were clearly outnumbered.
Rep. Markwayne Mullin (R-Okla.), one of the dozens of lawmakers inside the House chamber, first leapt into action, helping an officer barricade the door on the House floor that leads to Statuary Hall. Texas freshman Reps. Troy Nehls, Tony Gonzales [R-Ohio], Pat Fallon [R-Texas] and Ronny Jackson [R-Texas], a Navy veteran, also soon joined Mullin in preparing to defend the chamber. . . .
Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.), a former Army Ranger who served three tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, had been watching the election certification debate from the House gallery along with other House members, staffers and a host of reporters.
Mullin said he called on Crow, a friend of his, to help evacuate the rest of the people out of the gallery. . . . .
But your own experience doesn't matter a jot in the grand scheme of things.
Thus the only thing that matters does not matter.
So nothing really matters.
Nothing really matters.
At all.
(regardless of which way the wind blows ...)
Italy's population is quickly shrinking. Ditto Korea. Japan. And so on.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-population/italy-faces-existential-threat-over-low-birthrate-president-idUSKBN2052E1
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/21/679103541/japans-population-is-in-rapid-decline?t=1611255323938
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-why-south-koreas-falling-population-has-its-govt-worried-7132507/#:~:text=According to a Guardian report,above 64 years of age.
Is 'lawmakers' a generic term for politicians in the states or more specific?