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Those betting that the Senate will vote to convict Trump should probably take heart from McConnell –

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Comments

  • TresTres Posts: 2,702
    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    He was the best President of my lifetime, won the Gulf War with an international coalition, ended the Cold War on his watch, cut the deficit, agreed climate targets at the Rio Summit, took action for the disabled.

    Yet, despite the assistance of the Conservative Party, he still managed to lose to Bill Clinton in 1992.
    Like Major and the Tories in 1997, the GOP in 1992 had simply been in power too long and Clinton like Blair made few major changes to what the administration had been doing before.

    Generally however now Bush Snr and Major are looked back on by historians and the public as statesmen who left a good legacy.
    Whereas Johnson will be looked back on as the man who destroyed the Union.
    No, as he will not allow indyref2.

    Plus there is a swing to No in the latest Scottish poll today.

    Yes down to just 45% including Don't Knows ie no change at all from 2014 despite Brexit

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351492582468165632?s=20
    That's a swing towards yes 44 to 45 by my reading.
  • On COVID front, for what it's worth

    > Here in WA State, Gov. Jay Inslee just announced that COVID vaccinations are now being scheduled for anyone in phase 1b, which includes anyone 65 or older.

    > got email from my health provider informing me of this, along with details on how to schedule appointment.

    > just scheduled appointment to get jab #1 in two weeks.
  • It does beg the question of whether it would have made any difference to people's behaviour even if they had maintained lockdown over Christmas. It so happens that I am simply terrified by me or my loved ones getting this so there was no way I was going to get together with two other households anyway. But in the same way I get the impression that had Johnson said no to Christmas people would have ignored him anyway and just gone ahead with their plans.

    I am just considering that during the last lockdown the roads were completely empty for weeks on end. This time around you really wouldn't know there was a lockdown at all with traffic completely normal. With the exception of shops and schools being closed I am really not seeing much sign of a lockdown.

    I think the big problem is that the message on people still being at risk in spite of the vaccine is not getting through.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Scott_xP said:
    Fun stuff, and at least she's on the record, but a bit like all those deeply sorrowful Labour MPs under Corbyn, there comes a point where if you feel that way, why do you stay in the same party as him? Making it an issue of moral failing ups the ante from merely thinking he's crap at the job.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    Is Trump going to pardon anyone at all? He is running out of time. It is already 4pm ET.

    To minimise the backlash, doing it tomorrow morning makes sense, as the news will be dominated by Biden.

    To be fair, the bits of the video speech that I saw - didn't watch the whole thing - were quite nice, and avoided all the bitter crap about election fraud - he seems to have belatedly decided to go out on a relatively decent note.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    That's how any election is decided. There's no "don't know" box to tick.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,434
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are down by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    https://www.peterheadport.co.uk/fish-auction/

    Hmmm... Total boxes landed

    09/01/2020 - 2184
    07/02/2020 - 6019
    03/03/2020 - 3100
    03/04/2020 - 778
    08/05/2020 - 1748
    05/06/2020 - 5917
    03/07/2020 - 6622
    07/08/2020 - 5951
    04/09/2020 - 5156
    02/10/2020 - 5581
    06/11/2020 - 5386
    04/12/2020 - 6517
    08/01/2021 - 3955

    Seems to vary wildly.....
    It's worth bearing in mind few were landed today because many were on a protest in London yesterday.
    Weren't they mostly shellfish operations? The BBC interviewed someone from the Dartmouth Crab Company, I assume Peterhead isn't part of their business plan.
    No no, its entirely a Scottish fishing issue that has been fabricated by the SNP. Apparently.
    Shush, no one is supposed to get wind of this cunning plan!
    IT was the SNP's plan in 2014 for Scotland to leave the UK and the EU simultaneously, on a YES vote. Sturgeon never saw a problem with THAT.
    Well, she denied it would happen at all and EU membership would be grandfathered.

    I think she *hoped* that that could be negotiated simultaneously whilst Scotland negotiated to leave the UK, so there was no gap, and she'd ascend automatically to the EU as she left the UK at the end of a transition period.

    However, there was no evidence for that other than wishful thinking.
    It wasn't just wishful thinking, it was explicitly denied by the EU. And Spain alone would have vetoed, because Catalunya.

    The SNP position was a massive lie, in other words.

    Also, any legal analysis - for about a minute- reveals why this "grandfathering" could not have happened. Scottish accession as a new state would require a new EU Treaty, a new division of MEPs. new commissioners, and so on and so forth.

    As we have seen, the EU is painfully legalistic and bureaucratic, that's how it works (and, arguably, stays together, the red tape smothers democracy, deliberately). Scotland in 2014 would have had to quit the EU on a Yes vote, and would have been obliged to re-apply for membership.

    Sturgeon is too clever not to know this. She chooses to forget. She's a politician.
    Look at the Greek accession though. Corners can be cut and Spain can be bought off for a result the EU wants and starting from where we are now, an Indy Scotland in the EU would be the most stupendous triumph (and piece of trolling) in diplomatic history.
    Is is pish, tho. Scotland would legally have been forced to quit the EU, then reapply, with all the complex renegotiations (over fishing, amongst others) that accession requires. The idea that Eastern European countries, which had to jump through decades of hoops to gain membership, would simply nod through a Scottish accession, is bonkers.

    Brexit has shown us this, surely? Leaving the EU is horribly complicated and rejoining, by anyone, is not gonna be a nice sunny picnic, done and dusted in weeks.

    For a start the EU/rUK would have had to renegotiate their OWN relationship, requiring a painful new Treaty, diminishing UK MEP numbers, and so on. Only when that was done, would the EU have been legally eqiuipped to turn to Scotland's eagerness to reapply.

    Rough guess: 5-10 years minimum.
    You’re one of those who’s repeatedly been telling us that the EU has deliberately made the process of leaving as difficult as possible in order to discourage anyone following our example.
    Why would this necessarily apply to the accession process ?
    Oh FFS.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    He was the best President of my lifetime, won the Gulf War with an international coalition, ended the Cold War on his watch, cut the deficit, agreed climate targets at the Rio Summit, took action for the disabled.

    Yet, despite the assistance of the Conservative Party, he still managed to lose to Bill Clinton in 1992.
    Like Major and the Tories in 1997, the GOP in 1992 had simply been in power too long and Clinton like Blair made few major changes to what the administration had been doing before.

    Generally however now Bush Snr and Major are looked back on by historians and the public as statesmen who left a good legacy.
    Whereas Johnson will be looked back on as the man who destroyed the Union.
    No, as he will not allow indyref2.

    Plus there is a swing to No in the latest Scottish poll today.

    Yes down to just 45% including Don't Knows ie no change at all from 2014 despite Brexit

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1351492582468165632?s=20
    That's a swing towards yes 44 to 45 by my reading.
    A swing from Yes to No since the last poll excluding don't knows and including don't knows Yes on just 45%, no change from 2014 despite Brexit
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881
    RobD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    That's how any election is decided. There's no "don't know" box to tick.
    I think you are missing the fact that HYUFD is involved.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    RobD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    That's how any election is decided. There's no "don't know" box to tick.
    Some elections around the world do give a 'none of the above' option, amusingly.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    He was the best President of my lifetime, won the Gulf War with an international coalition, ended the Cold War on his watch, cut the deficit, agreed climate targets at the Rio Summit, took action for the disabled.

    Yet, despite the assistance of the Conservative Party, he still managed to lose to Bill Clinton in 1992.
    Like Major and the Tories in 1997, the GOP in 1992 had simply been in power too long and Clinton like Blair made few major changes to what the administration had been doing before.

    Generally however now Bush Snr and Major are looked back on by historians and the public as statesmen who left a good legacy.
    Whereas Johnson will be looked back on as the man who destroyed the Union.
    No, as he will not allow indyref2.
    In the same way that he solved the Irish Sea border question by not allowing it?
    NI still remains part of the UK and he also got a UK and EU trade deal.

    Boris is not going to risk a Scottish referendum that if lost would see him removed from No 10 the next day.

    Nationalists and leftwingers will have to get used to the fact that we Tories hold the power at Westminster until 2024, what we say goes until then.

    End of conversation.
    Oh please

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    You can't even get it right. There is no such thing as the British state. It's the UK state. A very big difference.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    It does beg the question of whether it would have made any difference to people's behaviour even if they had maintained lockdown over Christmas. It so happens that I am simply terrified by me or my loved ones getting this so there was no way I was going to get together with two other households anyway. But in the same way I get the impression that had Johnson said no to Christmas people would have ignored him anyway and just gone ahead with their plans.

    I am just considering that during the last lockdown the roads were completely empty for weeks on end. This time around you really wouldn't know there was a lockdown at all with traffic completely normal. With the exception of shops and schools being closed I am really not seeing much sign of a lockdown.

    I think the big problem is that the message on people still being at risk in spite of the vaccine is not getting through.
    i certainly agree about this lockdown. plenty of traffic. lots of coming and goings up and down my local streets. lots of popping out being done. where are they are all going?
  • Who could have predicted this? Williamson and the PM really are tossers messing around with the lives of teachers, children, and their family members.

    Ministers are set to halt plans for daily coronavirus tests in England’s secondary schools after teachers expressed alarm that the flagship policy had not been approved by regulators.

    The Department for Education will announce it is pausing the daily testing of pupils and teachers after receiving new health advice, only five weeks after the £78m programme was unveiled as a “milestone moment” in the fight against Covid-19.

    The about-turn came after the Guardian revealed last week that the UK’s medicines regulator had not authorised the daily use of rapid-turnaround tests as an alternative to self-isolation.

    The programme, which began in secondary schools a fortnight ago, was at the centre of the government’s “Operation Moonshot” mass-testing plans and its strategy for fully reopening schools after the February half-term.

    It is understood that the DfE will say it has received updated advice from Public Health England on daily contact testing and that it will be “paused” across England, except for a handful of trials.

    The government is expected to say that the new advice is related to the high transmissibility of the new Covid strain, which it first raised concerns about in December. The DfE has been contacted for comment.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/19/ministers-set-to-halt-plans-for-daily-covid-tests-in-english-schools
  • HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    HYUFD's gonna be the one in charge of the firing squads, he'll be the Vasily Blokhin of Unionism.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    edited January 2021
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    You can't even get it right. There is no such thing as the British state. It's the UK state. A very big difference.
    Technically the Great British and Northern Irish state
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Gaussian said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Part of me wants to the laugh at the DUP but most of me wants to weep for the break up of the country.

    Senior DUP MP Gavin Robinson warns unionism to prepare for border poll

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/01/18/news/gavin-robinson-echoes-dup-namesake-s-call-for-unionism-to-get-ready-for-a-border-poll-2189559/

    The DUP have belatedly realised why backing Brexit was the greatest strategic blunder since Emperor Palpatine allowed the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the Second Death Star.

    In about 2 years the Norns will realise they have won the lottery of life. They have automatic citizenship of the EU, and ALSO of the UK. Their companies can freely trade in the EU Single Market AND the UK Single Market. Investment is going to flood into Belfast. It will be like a Freeport.

    Why on earth would they give up this uniquely beneficial situation, so as to reunify with the South, which would risk renewed violence and sever them from the benefits of the UK? What's the point? Those who feel strongly "Irish" can have an Irish passport and the rest. Those who feel British can have an Irish and a UK passport. Such great good luck.

    I do not begrudge the Northern Irish this prize. They've had a hard time for decades. But it is a huge, ironic prize.



    I suggest you do a bit more research, the Northern Irish are facing huge hurdles to get easy access to the UK single market, and vice versa.

    As one UK trader put it, it is easier for him to send a container to China than it is to send some stuff to NI.

    This is one of the reasons the DUP are prepping for a border poll.
    The DUPs best chance is an early border poll. It is just going to get worse for them...
    Well, Mr Johnson isn't going to allow one is he??
    NI has cost so much blood, money and attention that you have to wonder whether betraying the DUP and provoking a border poll isn't a deliberate strategy to try to get rid of it.
    Who cares about the DUP?

    The only voters Mr Johnson cares about (apart from the future historians assessing his neo-Churchillian image for posterity, I assume) are the backbenchers, and, slightly at a remove, the likes of HYUFD. Is HYUFD in favour of Irish reunification? (I don't know, actually.)
    Of course not, I am a Conservative and Unionist and a diehard one at that.

    No you are not! You voted to REMAIN!
  • It does beg the question of whether it would have made any difference to people's behaviour even if they had maintained lockdown over Christmas. It so happens that I am simply terrified by me or my loved ones getting this so there was no way I was going to get together with two other households anyway. But in the same way I get the impression that had Johnson said no to Christmas people would have ignored him anyway and just gone ahead with their plans.

    I am just considering that during the last lockdown the roads were completely empty for weeks on end. This time around you really wouldn't know there was a lockdown at all with traffic completely normal. With the exception of shops and schools being closed I am really not seeing much sign of a lockdown.

    I think the big problem is that the message on people still being at risk in spite of the vaccine is not getting through.
    It comes down to money, lots more people are working not at home than in lockdown 1. If you are working and meeting lots of people during working hours you are far less likely to strictly minimise contacts outside of working hours.
  • Leon said:

    Part of me wants to the laugh at the DUP but most of me wants to weep for the break up of the country.

    Senior DUP MP Gavin Robinson warns unionism to prepare for border poll

    https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/01/18/news/gavin-robinson-echoes-dup-namesake-s-call-for-unionism-to-get-ready-for-a-border-poll-2189559/

    The DUP have belatedly realised why backing Brexit was the greatest strategic blunder since Emperor Palpatine allowed the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the Second Death Star.

    In about 2 years the Norns will realise they have won the lottery of life. They have automatic citizenship of the EU, and ALSO of the UK. Their companies can freely trade in the EU Single Market AND the UK Single Market. Investment is going to flood into Belfast. It will be like a Freeport.

    Why on earth would they give up this uniquely beneficial situation, so as to reunify with the South, which would risk renewed violence and sever them from the benefits of the UK? What's the point? Those who feel strongly "Irish" can have an Irish passport and the rest. Those who feel British can have an Irish and a UK passport. Such great good luck.

    I do not begrudge the Northern Irish this prize. They've had a hard time for decades. But it is a huge, ironic prize.



    I suggest you do a bit more research, the Northern Irish are facing huge hurdles to get easy access to the UK single market, and vice versa.

    As one UK trader put it, it is easier for him to send a container to China than it is to send some stuff to NI.

    This is one of the reasons the DUP are prepping for a border poll.

    A potential 25% tariff to be imposed on steel imports to Northern Ireland not from Great Britain will ruin the industry, it has been warned.

    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/25-tariff-on-steel-imports-to-northern-ireland-ruinous-39974482.html

    The Norn Irish are about get the worst of all worlds.
    100 years since Partition!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Parody account.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    Probably not news of interest to many here but it see 's that the conference leagues will be voting to cancel the season in the near future - the money they thought was a grant has turned out to be a loan and to say the football team chairman are unhappy would be a slight understatement

    https://twitter.com/ollie_bayliss/status/1351624083629342723?s=21
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881
    edited January 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    You can't even get it right. There is no such thing as the British state. It's the UK state. A very big difference.
    Technically the British and Northern Irish state
    [deleted] - off now: play nicely when I'm away.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Parody account.
    No, he means it. Like justin and his obsession with bastards.
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    You can't even get it right. There is no such thing as the British state. It's the UK state. A very big difference.
    No difference at all. Britain means the UK. You are probably thinking of Great Britain.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    He was the best President of my lifetime, won the Gulf War with an international coalition, ended the Cold War on his watch, cut the deficit, agreed climate targets at the Rio Summit, took action for the disabled.

    Yet, despite the assistance of the Conservative Party, he still managed to lose to Bill Clinton in 1992.
    Like Major and the Tories in 1997, the GOP in 1992 had simply been in power too long and Clinton like Blair made few major changes to what the administration had been doing before.

    Generally however now Bush Snr and Major are looked back on by historians and the public as statesmen who left a good legacy.
    Whereas Johnson will be looked back on as the man who destroyed the Union.
    No, as he will not allow indyref2.
    In the same way that he solved the Irish Sea border question by not allowing it?
    NI still remains part of the UK and he also got a UK and EU trade deal.

    Boris is not going to risk a Scottish referendum that if lost would see him removed from No 10 the next day.

    Nationalists and leftwingers will have to get used to the fact that we Tories hold the power at Westminster until 2024, what we say goes until then.

    End of conversation.
    Oh please

    This is the Scottish equivalent for your delectation


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,881

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    You can't even get it right. There is no such thing as the British state. It's the UK state. A very big difference.
    No difference at all. Britain means the UK. You are probably thinking of Great Britain.
    There is a hell of a difference if you are in NI.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    You are so ungrateful, HYFUD! We were trying to save your life!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    You can't even get it right. There is no such thing as the British state. It's the UK state. A very big difference.
    No difference at all. Britain means the UK. You are probably thinking of Great Britain.
    There is a hell of a difference if you are in NI.
    The demonym for people from the UK is British.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,434
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Quebec had referendums in 1980 and 1995, only 15 years apart.
  • It does beg the question of whether it would have made any difference to people's behaviour even if they had maintained lockdown over Christmas. It so happens that I am simply terrified by me or my loved ones getting this so there was no way I was going to get together with two other households anyway. But in the same way I get the impression that had Johnson said no to Christmas people would have ignored him anyway and just gone ahead with their plans.

    I am just considering that during the last lockdown the roads were completely empty for weeks on end. This time around you really wouldn't know there was a lockdown at all with traffic completely normal. With the exception of shops and schools being closed I am really not seeing much sign of a lockdown.

    I think the big problem is that the message on people still being at risk in spite of the vaccine is not getting through.
    Some people are young.
    Some people have had covid.
    Some people are bored of covid.
    Some people oppose restrictions.
    Some people think vaccination has ended covid.

    There's a limit to what governments can do and after that its up to people to take their own responsibility.

    As it happens I think the government has been greatly remiss over the weakness of international travel restrictions and its lack of a general public health strategy.

    But a day here or there on lockdown periods was going to have sod all effect - there's a lockdown tolerance for us all and for the country as a whole.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    There are times when a post becomes most inhumane poster of the year. It is a title that seems to waver between hyufd and Justin124 mainly
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    Ulster is different if they want a border poll nothing can stop it from taking place
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    I think while Boris is there probably won't be an official one. Sure, ignoring what will be a clear mandate for one in the Scottish elections will probably be damaging, but as you say with the polls as they are I can easily imagine him just being stubborn and hoping something comes up that diminishes Sindy support. Sure it probably won't work, but I can see the sense from his perspecive, even though I think morally a referendum should happen as it seems to be what they want.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,434

    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's government is immoral. Shutting down parliament illegally to stifle debate. Threatening to break international law to tear up its own key manifesto pledge. Refusing to feed hungry kids. Insisting it is right to sign trade deals with genocidal despots.

    May is right. And it drives zealots like HYUFD nuts.
    TMay was arguably the most wretchedly useless and embarassing UK PM in a century. No one gives a tiny scintilla of an iota of a fucklet what she thinks. A non headline, forgotten the moment it is read
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,221

    Who could have predicted this? Williamson and the PM really are tossers messing around with the lives of teachers, children, and their family members.

    Ministers are set to halt plans for daily coronavirus tests in England’s secondary schools after teachers expressed alarm that the flagship policy had not been approved by regulators.

    The Department for Education will announce it is pausing the daily testing of pupils and teachers after receiving new health advice, only five weeks after the £78m programme was unveiled as a “milestone moment” in the fight against Covid-19.

    The about-turn came after the Guardian revealed last week that the UK’s medicines regulator had not authorised the daily use of rapid-turnaround tests as an alternative to self-isolation.

    The programme, which began in secondary schools a fortnight ago, was at the centre of the government’s “Operation Moonshot” mass-testing plans and its strategy for fully reopening schools after the February half-term.

    It is understood that the DfE will say it has received updated advice from Public Health England on daily contact testing and that it will be “paused” across England, except for a handful of trials.

    The government is expected to say that the new advice is related to the high transmissibility of the new Covid strain, which it first raised concerns about in December. The DfE has been contacted for comment.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/19/ministers-set-to-halt-plans-for-daily-covid-tests-in-english-schools

    The spin in that last para is bollocks.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Looks like Biden's administration will not be cosying up the Chinese then..

    https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1351637268256186373
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    HYUFD's gonna be the one in charge of the firing squads, he'll be the Vasily Blokhin of Unionism.
    Union,

    Do you have the link to those four Scottish chaps singing that you posted the other day? Harmonising etc, very impressive.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    Leon said:

    TMay was arguably the most wretchedly useless and embarassing UK PM in a century.

    BoZo is so much worse
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,939
    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    Will Johnson be the PM who lost Scotland or will Sturgeon be the FM who lost Scotland?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    Ulster is different if they want a border poll nothing can stop it from taking place
    The fact they still keep giving Unionists more votes than Nationalists confirms that they don't
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    TMay was arguably the most wretchedly useless and embarassing UK PM in a century.

    BoZo is so much worse
    You should have said something.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    edited January 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    No, the only way the SNP get a legal indyref2 is a Starmer premiership reliant on SNP confidence and supply
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    You are being completely ridiculous once again and you do the party no credit
  • Surely this far into the epidemic this should never have happened. Someone in authority needs to explain how this was possible.

    https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2021/01/covid-outbreak-at-lincolnshire-car-home-kills-two-thirds-of-residents
  • Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's government is immoral. Shutting down parliament illegally to stifle debate. Threatening to break international law to tear up its own key manifesto pledge. Refusing to feed hungry kids. Insisting it is right to sign trade deals with genocidal despots.

    May is right. And it drives zealots like HYUFD nuts.
    TMay was arguably the most wretchedly useless and embarassing UK PM in a century save for Boris. No one gives a tiny scintilla of an iota of a fucklet what she thinks. A non headline, forgotten the moment it is read
    Corrected it for you!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    edited January 2021

    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's government is immoral. Shutting down parliament illegally to stifle debate. Threatening to break international law to tear up its own key manifesto pledge. Refusing to feed hungry kids. Insisting it is right to sign trade deals with genocidal despots.

    May is right. And it drives zealots like HYUFD nuts.
    I also campaigned for May remember but it was Boris who got the Tory majority of 80 not Theresa
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Quebec had referendums in 1980 and 1995, only 15 years apart.
    2014 was only 7 years ago not 15
  • Nigelb said:

    Who could have predicted this? Williamson and the PM really are tossers messing around with the lives of teachers, children, and their family members.

    Ministers are set to halt plans for daily coronavirus tests in England’s secondary schools after teachers expressed alarm that the flagship policy had not been approved by regulators.

    The Department for Education will announce it is pausing the daily testing of pupils and teachers after receiving new health advice, only five weeks after the £78m programme was unveiled as a “milestone moment” in the fight against Covid-19.

    The about-turn came after the Guardian revealed last week that the UK’s medicines regulator had not authorised the daily use of rapid-turnaround tests as an alternative to self-isolation.

    The programme, which began in secondary schools a fortnight ago, was at the centre of the government’s “Operation Moonshot” mass-testing plans and its strategy for fully reopening schools after the February half-term.

    It is understood that the DfE will say it has received updated advice from Public Health England on daily contact testing and that it will be “paused” across England, except for a handful of trials.

    The government is expected to say that the new advice is related to the high transmissibility of the new Covid strain, which it first raised concerns about in December. The DfE has been contacted for comment.


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/19/ministers-set-to-halt-plans-for-daily-covid-tests-in-english-schools

    The spin in that last para is bollocks.
    Well what do you expect from Johnson and Williamson?
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's government is immoral. Shutting down parliament illegally to stifle debate. Threatening to break international law to tear up its own key manifesto pledge. Refusing to feed hungry kids. Insisting it is right to sign trade deals with genocidal despots.

    May is right. And it drives zealots like HYUFD nuts.
    I also campaigned for May remember but it was Boris who got the Tory majority of 80 not Theresa
    You also campaigned for REMAIN!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Quebec had referendums in 1980 and 1995, only 15 years apart.
    2014 was only 7 years ago not 15
    When you're right, you're right.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's government is immoral. Shutting down parliament illegally to stifle debate. Threatening to break international law to tear up its own key manifesto pledge. Refusing to feed hungry kids. Insisting it is right to sign trade deals with genocidal despots.

    May is right. And it drives zealots like HYUFD nuts.
    TMay was arguably the most wretchedly useless and embarassing UK PM in a century. No one gives a tiny scintilla of an iota of a fucklet what she thinks. A non headline, forgotten the moment it is read
    Neville Chamberlain says 'hi'.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    I haven’t been on for a few days. Has the shooting started?

    Can’t you be more creative than shooting? Strapped to the front of a UK warhead in a live test? Chased by a team of canvassers over a cliff?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    Nigelb said:
    That is a very interesting article, and not overly technical. There is an interesting bit about inhaled Interferon towards the end, there is an interesting trial on this underway as a therapy. Worth watching, not least because it should work on all variants.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    Ulster is different if they want a border poll nothing can stop it from taking place
    The fact they still keep giving Unionists more votes than Nationalists confirms that they don't
    Read what I said - my sole point was that unlike Scotland it's not under bozo's control

    Whether ulster is in a position where it occurs is irrelevant to the point but unless deliveries are sorted out it wouldnt surprise me if peoples viewpoints rapidly change
  • I wonder how much of a reporting lag there is in the vaccination numbers.

    Today's English number was low but still 22% higher than that reported a week ago.

    If the 22% weekly increase is repeated we should be looking at 230k reported 2pm tomorrow.
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    Ulster is different if they want a border poll nothing can stop it from taking place
    The fact they still keep giving Unionists more votes than Nationalists confirms that they don't
    But for the first time in 100 years since Partition, there are less than 50% of Unionist MPs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,434
    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    Boris refuses Sindyref2. What happens then?

    Talk me through it. Sturgeon is adamant she wants a legal, Westminer-sanctioned referendum. She has said it many times (correctly, in my opinion)

    The Nats replace her with someone who will go UDI? OR she calls a Catalan-style home-made referendum which is boycotted by No voters, just as the referendum was boycotted in Catalunya.

    Either route means disaster for Nats. Your alternative?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    If you mean by Ulster, Northern Ireland, you are wrong on a point of legality. Look it up.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    After 4 years of hate and disgusting politics , compassion and humanity return to the WH .

    To all Americans who voted for Biden and Harris , thank you .
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    An interesting read regarding tomorrow's house move https://twitter.com/Olivianuzzi/status/1351655478573596673
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    edited January 2021

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's government is immoral. Shutting down parliament illegally to stifle debate. Threatening to break international law to tear up its own key manifesto pledge. Refusing to feed hungry kids. Insisting it is right to sign trade deals with genocidal despots.

    May is right. And it drives zealots like HYUFD nuts.
    TMay was arguably the most wretchedly useless and embarassing UK PM in a century. No one gives a tiny scintilla of an iota of a fucklet what she thinks. A non headline, forgotten the moment it is read
    Neville Chamberlain says 'hi'.
    Osborne was surprisingly positive about May's Deal in his article today, saying it was better for the Union than the current one and the DUP were idiots not to vote for it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,434

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    If you mean by Ulster, Northern Ireland, you are wrong on a point of legality. Look it up.
    Jesus. Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, whatever. You know exactly what I mean
  • It does beg the question of whether it would have made any difference to people's behaviour even if they had maintained lockdown over Christmas. It so happens that I am simply terrified by me or my loved ones getting this so there was no way I was going to get together with two other households anyway. But in the same way I get the impression that had Johnson said no to Christmas people would have ignored him anyway and just gone ahead with their plans.

    I am just considering that during the last lockdown the roads were completely empty for weeks on end. This time around you really wouldn't know there was a lockdown at all with traffic completely normal. With the exception of shops and schools being closed I am really not seeing much sign of a lockdown.

    I think the big problem is that the message on people still being at risk in spite of the vaccine is not getting through.
    i certainly agree about this lockdown. plenty of traffic. lots of coming and goings up and down my local streets. lots of popping out being done. where are they are all going?
    The messaging of late has been shot to hell. The Christmas relaxation, which the tweet condemns, was belatedly revised to be less relaxed than had been advertised but how many noticed? Social media evidence of gatherings that would have been OK under the promised relaxation but not the delivered version suggests many people missed the change.

    We can go out to exercise, but should stay local, or drive across London to exercise. We can exercise once a day but no, hold on, Boris has noticed dogs want to be walked so that is another exception.

    It is just too complex for most people to keep up with, and we see this every time there is a change because Cabinet Ministers and Number 10 PR teams cannot agree what is what.

    And now the expectation is abroad that vaccination means a return to normal. And more confusion. It is announced that over-70s are now to be jabbed but they are not told more than that so waste everyone's time ringing GPs and others to find out what they need to do next.

    To be fair to the public, round here at least people are following the rules on masks.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Quebec had referendums in 1980 and 1995, only 15 years apart.
    2014 was only 7 years ago not 15
    So we'll have another Indyref in 2029!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    Ulster is different if they want a border poll nothing can stop it from taking place
    The fact they still keep giving Unionists more votes than Nationalists confirms that they don't
    I regularly work in NI and the dynamic is changing rather quickly, and that is all down to Brexit.
  • Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    Boris refuses Sindyref2. What happens then?

    Talk me through it. Sturgeon is adamant she wants a legal, Westminer-sanctioned referendum. She has said it many times (correctly, in my opinion)

    The Nats replace her with someone who will go UDI? OR she calls a Catalan-style home-made referendum which is boycotted by No voters, just as the referendum was boycotted in Catalunya.

    Either route means disaster for Nats. Your alternative?
    Depends on the result. Remember the electoral system in Scotland was set up in such a way that it was supposed to be almost impossible for the Nats to get a majority. And yet they did. If they get a majority of the electorate (not the vote) then they are home dry. You might think it impossible but once Westminster has said no to a legal referendum I think a lot of the don't knows will fall on the Yes side in anger at the arrogance of Johnson.

    They may well not pull it off but if it was me I would think it was worth giving it a shot. If nothing else it would be a massive PR victory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    Ulster is different if they want a border poll nothing can stop it from taking place
    The fact they still keep giving Unionists more votes than Nationalists confirms that they don't
    I regularly work in NI and the dynamic is changing rather quickly, and that is all down to Brexit.
    It isn't, the main movement such as there is is to the non sectarian Alliance Party, not Sinn Fein
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    If you mean by Ulster, Northern Ireland, you are wrong on a point of legality. Look it up.
    Jesus. Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, whatever. You know exactly what I mean
    Except that Ulster also includes Counties Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, which, er, are no longer part of the UK...
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,673
    Nigelb said:
    Interesting. Aren't these autoantibodies problems linked to diabetes? Might explain the link to severe Covid cases.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712

    Surely this far into the epidemic this should never have happened. Someone in authority needs to explain how this was possible.

    https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2021/01/covid-outbreak-at-lincolnshire-car-home-kills-two-thirds-of-residents

    A friends mother died in a nursing home outbreak in Leicester today. One thing I wonder is how this relates to the vaccination programme.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123
    edited January 2021

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    Boris refuses Sindyref2. What happens then?

    Talk me through it. Sturgeon is adamant she wants a legal, Westminer-sanctioned referendum. She has said it many times (correctly, in my opinion)

    The Nats replace her with someone who will go UDI? OR she calls a Catalan-style home-made referendum which is boycotted by No voters, just as the referendum was boycotted in Catalunya.

    Either route means disaster for Nats. Your alternative?
    Depends on the result. Remember the electoral system in Scotland was set up in such a way that it was supposed to be almost impossible for the Nats to get a majority. And yet they did. If they get a majority of the electorate (not the vote) then they are home dry. You might think it impossible but once Westminster has said no to a legal referendum I think a lot of the don't knows will fall on the Yes side in anger at the arrogance of Johnson.

    They may well not pull it off but if it was me I would think it was worth giving it a shot. If nothing else it would be a massive PR victory.
    Madrid proved in Catalonia illegal referendums can be ignored and Boris noticed that.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,434

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Quebec had referendums in 1980 and 1995, only 15 years apart.
    2014 was only 7 years ago not 15
    So we'll have another Indyref in 2029!
    That is a pretty good guess. I can see the SNP gently declining as Sturgeon ages and indy doesn't happen. But there is now a solid 35-40% hard support for indy which isn't going anywhere. And it may grow.

    At some point there will be a 2nd vote, just as there was in Quebec. 15 years after 2014 seems about right (the minimum definition of a "generation").

    2030+, roughly. A new SNP govt under new leadership. Facing a UK Labour government under billionaire Euan Blair.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    Ulster is different if they want a border poll nothing can stop it from taking place
    The fact they still keep giving Unionists more votes than Nationalists confirms that they don't
    I regularly work in NI and the dynamic is changing rather quickly, and that is all down to Brexit.
    It isn't, the main movement such as there is is to the non sectarian Alliance Party, not Sinn Fein
    But the APNI only have one out of 18 MPs.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    If you mean by Ulster, Northern Ireland, you are wrong on a point of legality. Look it up.
    Jesus. Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, whatever. You know exactly what I mean
    Regardless of which incorrect name you give Northern Ireland, you are still wrong about the legality of a border poll!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    Ulster is different if they want a border poll nothing can stop it from taking place
    The fact they still keep giving Unionists more votes than Nationalists confirms that they don't
    I regularly work in NI and the dynamic is changing rather quickly, and that is all down to Brexit.
    It isn't, the main movement such as there is is to the non sectarian Alliance Party, not Sinn Fein
    But the APNI only have one out of 18 MPs.
    Which is one more than they had in 2017
  • HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    HYUFD's gonna be the one in charge of the firing squads, he'll be the Vasily Blokhin of Unionism.
    Union,

    Do you have the link to those four Scottish chaps singing that you posted the other day? Harmonising etc, very impressive.
    There you go

    https://twitter.com/vonstrenginho/status/1349824512544698369?s=20

    I wouldnae be going doon Eyemouth harbour without socks the night...
  • It does beg the question of whether it would have made any difference to people's behaviour even if they had maintained lockdown over Christmas. It so happens that I am simply terrified by me or my loved ones getting this so there was no way I was going to get together with two other households anyway. But in the same way I get the impression that had Johnson said no to Christmas people would have ignored him anyway and just gone ahead with their plans.

    I am just considering that during the last lockdown the roads were completely empty for weeks on end. This time around you really wouldn't know there was a lockdown at all with traffic completely normal. With the exception of shops and schools being closed I am really not seeing much sign of a lockdown.

    I think the big problem is that the message on people still being at risk in spite of the vaccine is not getting through.
    i certainly agree about this lockdown. plenty of traffic. lots of coming and goings up and down my local streets. lots of popping out being done. where are they are all going?
    The messaging of late has been shot to hell. The Christmas relaxation, which the tweet condemns, was belatedly revised to be less relaxed than had been advertised but how many noticed? Social media evidence of gatherings that would have been OK under the promised relaxation but not the delivered version suggests many people missed the change.

    We can go out to exercise, but should stay local, or drive across London to exercise. We can exercise once a day but no, hold on, Boris has noticed dogs want to be walked so that is another exception.

    It is just too complex for most people to keep up with, and we see this every time there is a change because Cabinet Ministers and Number 10 PR teams cannot agree what is what.

    And now the expectation is abroad that vaccination means a return to normal. And more confusion. It is announced that over-70s are now to be jabbed but they are not told more than that so waste everyone's time ringing GPs and others to find out what they need to do next.

    To be fair to the public, round here at least people are following the rules on masks.
    People didn't miss the change they just did what they wanted to do.

    We all have our own limit to the level of restrictions we are prepared to tolerate and when that limit is reached the restrictions are ignored.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,434

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    Boris refuses Sindyref2. What happens then?

    Talk me through it. Sturgeon is adamant she wants a legal, Westminer-sanctioned referendum. She has said it many times (correctly, in my opinion)

    The Nats replace her with someone who will go UDI? OR she calls a Catalan-style home-made referendum which is boycotted by No voters, just as the referendum was boycotted in Catalunya.

    Either route means disaster for Nats. Your alternative?
    Depends on the result. Remember the electoral system in Scotland was set up in such a way that it was supposed to be almost impossible for the Nats to get a majority. And yet they did. If they get a majority of the electorate (not the vote) then they are home dry. You might think it impossible but once Westminster has said no to a legal referendum I think a lot of the don't knows will fall on the Yes side in anger at the arrogance of Johnson.

    They may well not pull it off but if it was me I would think it was worth giving it a shot. If nothing else it would be a massive PR victory.
    You make no sense. Who is thinking it "worth giving a shot" and how? And what is the shot? And who has the victory? What??

  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    Boris refuses Sindyref2. What happens then?

    Talk me through it. Sturgeon is adamant she wants a legal, Westminer-sanctioned referendum. She has said it many times (correctly, in my opinion)

    The Nats replace her with someone who will go UDI? OR she calls a Catalan-style home-made referendum which is boycotted by No voters, just as the referendum was boycotted in Catalunya.

    Either route means disaster for Nats. Your alternative?
    Depends on the result. Remember the electoral system in Scotland was set up in such a way that it was supposed to be almost impossible for the Nats to get a majority. And yet they did. If they get a majority of the electorate (not the vote) then they are home dry. You might think it impossible but once Westminster has said no to a legal referendum I think a lot of the don't knows will fall on the Yes side in anger at the arrogance of Johnson.

    They may well not pull it off but if it was me I would think it was worth giving it a shot. If nothing else it would be a massive PR victory.
    Madrid proved in Catalonia illegal referendums can be ignored and Boris noticed that.

    If Boris tries anything like the Spanish did then he will be out of power within days. Unionist sentiment is just not that strong in England that the people would stand for anything like the actions the Spanish took.

    Face it, your extremist views are in a tiny, tiny minority.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:
    That is a very interesting article, and not overly technical. There is an interesting bit about inhaled Interferon towards the end, there is an interesting trial on this underway as a therapy. Worth watching, not least because it should work on all variants.
    Hopefully the antibodies the vaccines generate are different.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,434

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    If you mean by Ulster, Northern Ireland, you are wrong on a point of legality. Look it up.
    Jesus. Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, whatever. You know exactly what I mean
    Except that Ulster also includes Counties Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, which, er, are no longer part of the UK...
    I KNOW
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,443

    It does beg the question of whether it would have made any difference to people's behaviour even if they had maintained lockdown over Christmas. It so happens that I am simply terrified by me or my loved ones getting this so there was no way I was going to get together with two other households anyway. But in the same way I get the impression that had Johnson said no to Christmas people would have ignored him anyway and just gone ahead with their plans.

    I am just considering that during the last lockdown the roads were completely empty for weeks on end. This time around you really wouldn't know there was a lockdown at all with traffic completely normal. With the exception of shops and schools being closed I am really not seeing much sign of a lockdown.

    I think the big problem is that the message on people still being at risk in spite of the vaccine is not getting through.
    i certainly agree about this lockdown. plenty of traffic. lots of coming and goings up and down my local streets. lots of popping out being done. where are they are all going?
    And yet the cases are still plummeting, so it’s not all bad
  • Foxy said:

    Surely this far into the epidemic this should never have happened. Someone in authority needs to explain how this was possible.

    https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2021/01/covid-outbreak-at-lincolnshire-car-home-kills-two-thirds-of-residents

    A friends mother died in a nursing home outbreak in Leicester today. One thing I wonder is how this relates to the vaccination programme.
    This was before the vaccination programme started. Back in November.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    Boris refuses Sindyref2. What happens then?

    Talk me through it. Sturgeon is adamant she wants a legal, Westminer-sanctioned referendum. She has said it many times (correctly, in my opinion)

    The Nats replace her with someone who will go UDI? OR she calls a Catalan-style home-made referendum which is boycotted by No voters, just as the referendum was boycotted in Catalunya.

    Either route means disaster for Nats. Your alternative?
    Depends on the result. Remember the electoral system in Scotland was set up in such a way that it was supposed to be almost impossible for the Nats to get a majority. And yet they did. If they get a majority of the electorate (not the vote) then they are home dry. You might think it impossible but once Westminster has said no to a legal referendum I think a lot of the don't knows will fall on the Yes side in anger at the arrogance of Johnson.

    They may well not pull it off but if it was me I would think it was worth giving it a shot. If nothing else it would be a massive PR victory.
    Madrid proved in Catalonia illegal referendums can be ignored and Boris noticed that.

    If Boris tries anything like the Spanish did then he will be out of power within days. Unionist sentiment is just not that strong in England that the people would stand for anything like the actions the Spanish took.

    Face it, your extremist views are in a tiny, tiny minority.
    No he won't. The entire Tory Party is united behind no surrender to the SNP under any circumstances whatsoever.

    The vast majority of Tory voters would love nothing more than Boris to tell Sturgeon to sod off
  • Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Quebec had referendums in 1980 and 1995, only 15 years apart.
    2014 was only 7 years ago not 15
    So we'll have another Indyref in 2029!
    That is a pretty good guess. I can see the SNP gently declining as Sturgeon ages and indy doesn't happen. But there is now a solid 35-40% hard support for indy which isn't going anywhere. And it may grow.

    At some point there will be a 2nd vote, just as there was in Quebec. 15 years after 2014 seems about right (the minimum definition of a "generation").

    2030+, roughly. A new SNP govt under new leadership. Facing a UK Labour government under billionaire Euan Blair.
    All this "generation" stuff is bollocks, though, you do know that? It's not written in law, it's not part of the constitution. If the people of Scotland want to have a vote, give them a fucking vote.

    I thought we lived in a democracy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712

    Nigelb said:
    Interesting. Aren't these autoantibodies problems linked to diabetes? Might explain the link to severe Covid cases.
    Type 1 diabetes, but not the more common type 2 has auto-antibodies.

    I don't know if the increase in diabetes after covid is autoantibody related.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Surely this far into the epidemic this should never have happened. Someone in authority needs to explain how this was possible.

    https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2021/01/covid-outbreak-at-lincolnshire-car-home-kills-two-thirds-of-residents

    All 27 residents and 20 staff tested positive on November 16th, so nothing to do with the vaccine programme. But something went hideously wrong.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The only way BoZo avoids Indyref2 is if the SNP implode. Which has a non-zero probability

    Boris refuses Sindyref2. What happens then?

    Talk me through it. Sturgeon is adamant she wants a legal, Westminer-sanctioned referendum. She has said it many times (correctly, in my opinion)

    The Nats replace her with someone who will go UDI? OR she calls a Catalan-style home-made referendum which is boycotted by No voters, just as the referendum was boycotted in Catalunya.

    Either route means disaster for Nats. Your alternative?
    Depends on the result. Remember the electoral system in Scotland was set up in such a way that it was supposed to be almost impossible for the Nats to get a majority. And yet they did. If they get a majority of the electorate (not the vote) then they are home dry. You might think it impossible but once Westminster has said no to a legal referendum I think a lot of the don't knows will fall on the Yes side in anger at the arrogance of Johnson.

    They may well not pull it off but if it was me I would think it was worth giving it a shot. If nothing else it would be a massive PR victory.
    Madrid proved in Catalonia illegal referendums can be ignored and Boris noticed that.

    If Boris tries anything like the Spanish did then he will be out of power within days. Unionist sentiment is just not that strong in England that the people would stand for anything like the actions the Spanish took.

    Face it, your extremist views are in a tiny, tiny minority.
    No he won't. The entire Tory Party is united behind no surrender to the SNP under any circumstances whatsoever.

    The vast majority of Tory voters would love nothing more than Boris to tell Sturgeon to sod off
    You really are deluded. Just look around at your own party members on here. Even the unionists would draw the line at 'any circumstances whatsoever'.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Foxy said:

    Surely this far into the epidemic this should never have happened. Someone in authority needs to explain how this was possible.

    https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2021/01/covid-outbreak-at-lincolnshire-car-home-kills-two-thirds-of-residents

    A friends mother died in a nursing home outbreak in Leicester today. One thing I wonder is how this relates to the vaccination programme.
    You mean Are there any stats for how many deaths are caused by the programme? Could the government fairly sit on those numbers with argument not to give anti vaxers ammo?

    Overall it must save lives and the NHS but Does roll out of flu vaccines cause much illness and death each year that’s attributed to having had the jab?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    BBC London News - official data suggests 700,000 people may have left London since the virus pandemic begun.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,123

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    Quebec had referendums in 1980 and 1995, only 15 years apart.
    2014 was only 7 years ago not 15
    So we'll have another Indyref in 2029!
    That is a pretty good guess. I can see the SNP gently declining as Sturgeon ages and indy doesn't happen. But there is now a solid 35-40% hard support for indy which isn't going anywhere. And it may grow.

    At some point there will be a 2nd vote, just as there was in Quebec. 15 years after 2014 seems about right (the minimum definition of a "generation").

    2030+, roughly. A new SNP govt under new leadership. Facing a UK Labour government under billionaire Euan Blair.
    All this "generation" stuff is bollocks, though, you do know that? It's not written in law, it's not part of the constitution. If the people of Scotland want to have a vote, give them a fucking vote.

    I thought we lived in a democracy.
    We do, one which has given us a Tory government which will tell Sturgeon to sod off no matter the handwringing from leftwingers like you who are ashamed of their own country
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD is in front of a firing squad. There is a vote whether HYFUD should be shot. 6 people vote to save his life. 5 people vote to shoot him. Malc and I are don’t knows. HYUFD is shot.

    Nationalists should count themselves lucky the British government no longer uses firing squads for those seeking to commit treachery against the British State and the Crown but merely refuses independence referendums being held more than once a generation
    I'm sure they are very grateful not to be shot for expressing political opinions that are perfectly legal.
    I know it's easy, and maybe fun, to laugh at HYUFD. He/she does invite it (and remains unusually polite in response, it is worth noting)

    No one is going to send tanks over the Tweed

    However, on the basic politics, HYUFD is correct. Calling a Scottish indyref2 with the polls as wild as they are now is a risk no UK prime minister will take (and Starmer will be the same). They have all learned from the rueful fate of Dave "this is a good deal" Cameron

    It will be fudged. Devomax/Federalism will be soberly debated, a Solemn Royal Commission will be summoned om the constitutional future of the UK. Scots will be heard! Meanwhile the UK govt will quietly hope that the SNP self-destructs, as the rule-following Sturgeon tries to face down her UDI hardcore.

    No Sindyref2 til 2024, earliest. Ditto Ulster.
    If you mean by Ulster, Northern Ireland, you are wrong on a point of legality. Look it up.
    Jesus. Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, whatever. You know exactly what I mean
    Except that Ulster also includes Counties Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, which, er, are no longer part of the UK...
    I KNOW
    THEREFORE Ulster =/= Northern Ireland.
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