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Those betting that the Senate will vote to convict Trump should probably take heart from McConnell –

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited January 2021 in General
Those betting that the Senate will vote to convict Trump should probably take heart from McConnell – politicalbetting.com

.@senatemajldr on the U.S. Capitol Attack: "The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people." pic.twitter.com/QIeviyHkl3

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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    First
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited January 2021
    Second, like Trump would have been by a much greater amount but for all his jiggery pokery.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC surprised that only 1% of university professors are black. The percentage of people in the general population who are black is about 2%, but you get the impression the people writing the article in London haven't checked on that.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55723120

    It's actually 3.3%.
    Although you'd need to adjust for age to make a fair comparison.
    Also need to adjust that Black Africans are often highly academically qualified. In the USA they are the group most likely to have a PhD.
    Is that true? I'd be surprised. In the US, isn't it people of Chinese origin who are most academically qualified? In any case, I very much doubt that it is true in the UK.
    "According to the U.S census about 43.8 percent of African immigrants achieved the most college degrees, compared to 42.5 percent of Asian-Americans, 28.9 percent for immigrants from Europe, Russia and Canada and 23.1 percent of the U.S. population as a whole.[15][16][17]"

    From: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States

    It wouldn't surprise me it being similar here. Lots of West African postgraduate students around.
    Ah, direct immigrants from Africa. OK, that makes more sense (but the numbers are tiny, surely?)
    And skewed to education given that most people migrating legally from Africa will be doing so on student visas rather than H or O visas.
  • Wise words from Mitch. Would that he had said them sooner.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.
  • I've not bet on this market, but if I had I'd be thinking now that the chances are Trump being convicted have just increased.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    It is appropriate that somebody who is in effect a high class whore turns out to be a total c*** though, wouldn’t you say?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    It is appropriate that somebody who is in effect a high class whore turns out to be a total c*** though, wouldn’t you say?
    Hard to argue with that assessment in all honesty.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Encouraging news on new case numbers this evening but appalling number of deaths.

    Promising signs on hospitalisations but it's early days and the combination of vaccinations (especially as we are told the efficacy increases with time so those vaccinated up to New Year should be in pretty good shape) and increased lockdown restrictions having the desired effect.

    Early days.
  • President Trump needs to pardon someone soon to stop me getting bored, and he should start with the MAGA numpties who stormed the Capitol. Otherwise more than a hundred defence lawyers will be blaming the President for inciting them, alongside more than a few Republican Congressmen so it is in the GOP's interest to make this go away.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited January 2021
    stodge said:

    Encouraging news on new case numbers this evening but appalling number of deaths.

    Promising signs on hospitalisations but it's early days and the combination of vaccinations (especially as we are told the efficacy increases with time so those vaccinated up to New Year should be in pretty good shape) and increased lockdown restrictions having the desired effect.

    Early days.

    Deaths Today

    image

    Deaths Yesterday

    image

    R

    image
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    I've not bet on this market, but if I had I'd be thinking now that the chances are Trump being convicted have just increased.

    I've done it. I think he's going down.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172


    The problem with Pembrokeshire is that there are no decent jobs for locals, there is a proliferation of holiday homes, and there is an influx of elderly retirees.

    I would start by fixing the second, which would be easy to do if the political will were there.

    There aren't as many Holiday Homes as you may thin, Ceredigion and Gwynedd are much worse.
    Tbh, I think it is really difficult to get good data on this, as the Council Tax surcharge means there is a lot of under-declaration.
  • Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    I suppose it depends on just how bad Mitch wants the civil war in what's left of the GOP to be.

    Either A;

    Extremely bad and bitter

    or B:

    Full on schism, with the Trumpistas being by far the largest segment.

    Add eleven million instant citizens, plus more in immigration, and well, the democrats can do what they like.

    Pretty much for the duration.

    One day, investors might wake up to that fact.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
    Especially if you’re Bill Clinton.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    President Trump needs to pardon someone soon to stop me getting bored, and he should start with the MAGA numpties who stormed the Capitol. Otherwise more than a hundred defence lawyers will be blaming the President for inciting them, alongside more than a few Republican Congressmen so it is in the GOP's interest to make this go away.

    Never mind their disregard for democratic norms, the pictures from the invasion of the Capitol are going to rather undermine their pose of being a party of law and order for a very long time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    McConnell will only vote to convict Trump if he knows he has the 2/3 votes required and he is stepping down as Majority Leader of the GOP after.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    HYUFD said:

    McConnell will only vote to convict Trump if he knows he has the 2/3 votes required and he is stepping down as Majority Leader of the GOP after.

    Don’t you mean Minority Leader?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    kinabalu said:

    I've not bet on this market, but if I had I'd be thinking now that the chances are Trump being convicted have just increased.

    I've done it. I think he's going down.
    to perfumery, stationery and leather goods?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    I suppose it depends on just how bad Mitch wants the civil war in what's left of the GOP to be.

    Either A;

    Extremely bad and bitter

    or B:

    Full on schism, with the Trumpistas being by far the largest segment.

    Add eleven million instant citizens, plus more in immigration, and well, the democrats can do what they like.

    Pretty much for the duration.

    One day, investors might wake up to that fact.

    Trumpton.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774



    The problem with Pembrokeshire is that there are no decent jobs for locals, there is a proliferation of holiday homes, and there is an influx of elderly retirees.

    I would start by fixing the second, which would be easy to do if the political will were there.

    There aren't as many Holiday Homes as you may thin, Ceredigion and Gwynedd are much worse.
    Tbh, I think it is really difficult to get good data on this, as the Council Tax surcharge means there is a lot of under-declaration.
    Addresses with no one on the electoral register is sometimes used as a surrogate, now that registration for a second home isn’t usually allowed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    President Trump needs to pardon someone soon to stop me getting bored, and he should start with the MAGA numpties who stormed the Capitol. Otherwise more than a hundred defence lawyers will be blaming the President for inciting them, alongside more than a few Republican Congressmen so it is in the GOP's interest to make this go away.

    Never mind their disregard for democratic norms, the pictures from the invasion of the Capitol are going to rather undermine their pose of being a party of law and order for a very long time.
    McConnell’s reference to “other powerful people” was interesting.

    A key question over coming weeks and months is whether direct links are established between the rioters and leading Republicans.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
  • IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I've not bet on this market, but if I had I'd be thinking now that the chances are Trump being convicted have just increased.

    I've done it. I think he's going down.
    to perfumery, stationery and leather goods?
    Well, we know that, like Mrs Slocombe, he is pussy-obsessed.
  • I wonder it might be in Trump's best interests to be convicted by the senate.

    Gets convicted here and can complain he cannot get a fair trial anywhere else.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    Pretty much nailed on. But the Trump supporters vastly outnumber the tea party Neo Cons.

    Look at the Wyoming GOP's response to what Liz Cheney did. Outright condemnation. They were inundated with messages from voters yelling betrayal.

    Cheney will probably be primaried now, when the time comes. And not in a good way.

    Meanwhile Texas is throwing lawsuits at everything Biden is trying to do. They won;t win of course, but it just shows where we are.

    People might have laughed when anybody suggested the break-up of the USA even just a few years ago.

    Now? not so much. Not so much at all.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    IanB2 said:

    President Trump needs to pardon someone soon to stop me getting bored, and he should start with the MAGA numpties who stormed the Capitol. Otherwise more than a hundred defence lawyers will be blaming the President for inciting them, alongside more than a few Republican Congressmen so it is in the GOP's interest to make this go away.

    Never mind their disregard for democratic norms, the pictures from the invasion of the Capitol are going to rather undermine their pose of being a party of law and order for a very long time.
    McConnell’s reference to “other powerful people” was interesting.

    A key question over coming weeks and months is whether direct links are established between the rioters and leading Republicans.
    If McConnell ditches Trump, he has to go after the rest of the MAGA crowd. Their response to him attacking Trump will be to attack him. Voting to impeach Trump would be the start of the Republican internal bun fight. I don't see a way that he can go after Trump alone.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    I wonder it might be in Trump's best interests to be convicted by the senate.

    Gets convicted here and can complain he cannot get a fair trial anywhere else.

    Yeah finding an impartial jury will be impossible for all the other crimes, this carries no jail sentence either.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    Pretty much nailed on. But the Trump supporters vastly outnumber the tea party Neo Cons.

    Look at the Wyoming GOP's response to what Liz Cheney did. Outright condemnation. They were inundated with messages from voters yelling betrayal.

    Cheney will probably be primaried now, when the time comes. And not in a good way.

    Meanwhile Texas is throwing lawsuits at everything Biden is trying to do. They won;t win of course, but it just shows where we are.

    People might have laughed when anybody suggested the break-up of the USA even just a few years ago.

    Now? not so much. Not so much at all.
    Yeah, the US isn’t going to break up. Ain’t gonna happen.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    I wonder it might be in Trump's best interests to be convicted by the senate.

    Gets convicted here and can complain he cannot get a fair trial anywhere else.

    Nobody will care what he says by then.

    He becomes a rapidly deflating balloon at precisely 1200hrs EST tomorrow. A schmuck.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,686
    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    It is appropriate that somebody who is in effect a high class whore turns out to be a total c*** though, wouldn’t you say?
    bit misogynistic
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I've not bet on this market, but if I had I'd be thinking now that the chances are Trump being convicted have just increased.

    I've done it. I think he's going down.
    to perfumery, stationery and leather goods?
    Well, we know that, like Mrs Slocombe, he is pussy-obsessed.
    But he’s just after Grace.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    Yes it's a bit mad he still has backers on here.

    Corker of a lawsuit put together by "Blacks for Trump", "Latinos for Trump" - seeking to void not just Biden but the entire Congress, includes great lines such as
    7. Accordingly, this Court should rest assured that the relief requested in this lawsuit will not result in the destruction of democracy
    &
    "Therefore, not a single member of the 117thUnited States Congress was legally elected, which renders Congress illegitimate."

    https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txwd.1120287/gov.uscourts.txwd.1120287.1.0.pdf
  • The China hawks will be back.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    I suppose it depends on just how bad Mitch wants the civil war in what's left of the GOP to be.

    Either A;

    Extremely bad and bitter

    or B:

    Full on schism, with the Trumpistas being by far the largest segment.

    Add eleven million instant citizens, plus more in immigration, and well, the democrats can do what they like.

    Pretty much for the duration.

    One day, investors might wake up to that fact.

    Trumpton.
    Well if you think I'm wrong you might actually toy with the idea of coming up with an argument, as opposed to a slur, an insult or an unsupported opinion.
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    Note that recent poll shows Melania with negative net job approval rating as First Lady of -5% (42% Fav, 47% unFav).

    Note that previously the least popular FLOTUS upon leaving1600 Pennsylvania Ave was Hillary Clinton with net +13%
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    It's fabulous how many people do the "I am no fan of Trump but.." and then trot out a 'good thing' he did that turns out to not be true with 30 secs of research.

    The number of peeps on here who think Trump stopped/lowered the usage of drone strikes is unbelievable.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    Yes it's a bit mad he still has backers on here.

    Corker of a lawsuit put together by "Blacks for Trump", "Latinos for Trump" - seeking to void not just Biden but the entire Congress, includes great lines such as
    7. Accordingly, this Court should rest assured that the relief requested in this lawsuit will not result in the destruction of democracy
    &
    "Therefore, not a single member of the 117thUnited States Congress was legally elected, which renders Congress illegitimate."

    https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txwd.1120287/gov.uscourts.txwd.1120287.1.0.pdf
    51% approval rating from Rasmussen!
  • ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I've not bet on this market, but if I had I'd be thinking now that the chances are Trump being convicted have just increased.

    I've done it. I think he's going down.
    to perfumery, stationery and leather goods?
    Well, we know that, like Mrs Slocombe, he is pussy-obsessed.
    But he’s just after Grace.
    But will he still be able to say "I'm free!"?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    FFS what is a 'Trumpton'

    Oh I know. Its a lazy slur by a person who can;t come up with an argument.

    Trump or no Trump the GOP is shattered and broken and its probably going to stay that way. That's the point and its based on hard evidence.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    I wonder it might be in Trump's best interests to be convicted by the senate.

    Gets convicted here and can complain he cannot get a fair trial anywhere else.

    That's one reason for going very slowly with this case - let Georgia or New York get in front and the issue disappears for years
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Civil wars get predicted much more often than they happen. The Corbynites were supposedly going to start one when they lost the leadership.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    The China hawks will be back.
    Yup, they have the numbers and know it now. I think they will be pushing very hard for our accession into the CPTPP so the UK has a more offensive strategy rather than just playing defence all the time. One of the big challenges ahead for Boris and Joe is building a coalition to take on China, our accession to the CPTPP should be followed by the US joining it as a ready made way to bolster US interests in APAC and win back a lot of Asian countries that are wavering on Taiwan etc...
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    It's fabulous how many people do the "I am no fan of Trump but.." and then trot out a 'good thing' he did that turns out to not be true with 30 secs of research.

    The number of peeps on here who think Trump stopped/lowered the usage of drone strikes is unbelievable.
    Gigantic strawman, especially on this site. Can you cite an example?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,410
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    In fairness, Melania has a divorce to be working on
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    MaxPB said:

    I wonder it might be in Trump's best interests to be convicted by the senate.

    Gets convicted here and can complain he cannot get a fair trial anywhere else.

    Yeah finding an impartial jury will be impossible for all the other crimes, this carries no jail sentence either.
    Is it legal to reject jurors based on their political leanings? Or to even ask about them?

    Getting to a unanimous jury decision could certainly be a challenge though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    edited January 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    FFS what is a 'Trumpton'

    Oh I know. Its a lazy slur by a person who can;t come up with an argument.

    Trump or no Trump the GOP is shattered and broken and its probably going to stay that way. That's the point and its based on hard evidence.
    If the Biden-Harris administration have low ratings in 2022 the GOP are highly likely to retake the House even if they do not retake the Presidency for a while.

    During the Reagan and Bush 41 years the Democrats still controlled the House of Representatives
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    Yes it's a bit mad he still has backers on here.

    Corker of a lawsuit put together by "Blacks for Trump", "Latinos for Trump" - seeking to void not just Biden but the entire Congress, includes great lines such as
    7. Accordingly, this Court should rest assured that the relief requested in this lawsuit will not result in the destruction of democracy
    &
    "Therefore, not a single member of the 117thUnited States Congress was legally elected, which renders Congress illegitimate."

    https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txwd.1120287/gov.uscourts.txwd.1120287.1.0.pdf
    The firm I trained at did a lot of London agency work for provincial firms that needed to file stuff at the Royal Courts of Justice and other legwork like attending interlocutory applications. My litigation seat therefore involved a lot of dealing with aluminium hatted gentlemen in the Shires writing in green ink instructing local solicitors to file some of the most fantastically insane shit imaginable, in one case suggesting that no Act of Parliament since 1688 had been validly passed, and another saying that the Queen had “constructively” abdicated when she met the Pope in the early 60s.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021
    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Gaussian said:

    MaxPB said:

    I wonder it might be in Trump's best interests to be convicted by the senate.

    Gets convicted here and can complain he cannot get a fair trial anywhere else.

    Yeah finding an impartial jury will be impossible for all the other crimes, this carries no jail sentence either.
    Is it legal to reject jurors based on their political leanings? Or to even ask about them?

    Getting to a unanimous jury decision could certainly be a challenge though.
    Another thought.... using the Oliver North trick

    His lawyer got sworn testimony to count towards double jeopardy. So standing up and telling the truth under oath pretty much prevented hm being prosecuted for the crimes he said he committed.... so if Trump testified at the impeachment.....

    Mind you North had an intelligent lawyer and listened to him. Can't see that working for Trump.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    Pretty much nailed on. But the Trump supporters vastly outnumber the tea party Neo Cons.

    Look at the Wyoming GOP's response to what Liz Cheney did. Outright condemnation. They were inundated with messages from voters yelling betrayal.

    Cheney will probably be primaried now, when the time comes. And not in a good way.

    Meanwhile Texas is throwing lawsuits at everything Biden is trying to do. They won;t win of course, but it just shows where we are.

    People might have laughed when anybody suggested the break-up of the USA even just a few years ago.

    Now? not so much. Not so much at all.
    Yeah, the US isn’t going to break up. Ain’t gonna happen.
    Yeah, to misquote Belloc "Whatever happens we [the US federal government] have got / Tanks and bombers and nukes and they have not."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    Pretty much nailed on. But the Trump supporters vastly outnumber the tea party Neo Cons.

    Look at the Wyoming GOP's response to what Liz Cheney did. Outright condemnation. They were inundated with messages from voters yelling betrayal.

    Cheney will probably be primaried now, when the time comes. And not in a good way.

    Meanwhile Texas is throwing lawsuits at everything Biden is trying to do. They won;t win of course, but it just shows where we are.

    People might have laughed when anybody suggested the break-up of the USA even just a few years ago.

    Now? not so much. Not so much at all.
    Yeah, the US isn’t going to break up. Ain’t gonna happen.
    Yeah, to misquote Belloc "Whatever happens we [the US federal government] have got / Tanks and bombers and nukes and they have not."
    Bombers and nukes? You'll give HYUFD ideas.
  • Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    FFS what is a 'Trumpton'

    Oh I know. Its a lazy slur by a person who can;t come up with an argument.

    Trump or no Trump the GOP is shattered and broken and its probably going to stay that way. That's the point and its based on hard evidence.
    It is fairly obviously someone who supports Trump. Quite why they take it as an insult if they support him I have no idea.

    If someone calls me a Blairite or liberal or centrist I don't think how insulting even if liking Blair or being a liberal are not particularly popular at times.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Andy_JS said:

    Biden will hopefully be the most boring president since George HW Bush, which is arguably just what the US needs.

    HW had a number of features - boring wasn't one of them. Understated, maybe.

    This was the guy who built a military coalition that included the Arabs and the Israelis - fighting on the same side.

    And used rock music to get Noriega into prison.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    FFS what is a 'Trumpton'

    Trumpton is a very sweet place, with its greengrocer shop and florist and fishmongers.

    The Westminster constituency is held by the LibDems, I believe.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    edited January 2021
    So how many lawsuits against Trump are going to be filed after 12 tommorow ?
    Must be like christmas Eve at NYSD.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Pulpstar said:

    So how many lawsuits against Trump are going to be filed after 12 tommorow ?
    Must be like christmas Eve at NYSD.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ntOce4kEJg
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited January 2021
    rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    Pretty much nailed on. But the Trump supporters vastly outnumber the tea party Neo Cons.

    Look at the Wyoming GOP's response to what Liz Cheney did. Outright condemnation. They were inundated with messages from voters yelling betrayal.

    Cheney will probably be primaried now, when the time comes. And not in a good way.

    Meanwhile Texas is throwing lawsuits at everything Biden is trying to do. They won;t win of course, but it just shows where we are.

    People might have laughed when anybody suggested the break-up of the USA even just a few years ago.

    Now? not so much. Not so much at all.
    Yeah, the US isn’t going to break up. Ain’t gonna happen.
    Yeah, to misquote Belloc "Whatever happens we [the US federal government] have got / Tanks and bombers and nukes and they have not."
    The US dollar - a currency backed with the heaviest currency. Plutonium.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    FPT

    President Trump needs to pardon someone soon to stop me getting bored, and he should start with the MAGA numpties who stormed the Capitol. Otherwise more than a hundred defence lawyers will be blaming the President for inciting them, alongside more than a few Republican Congressmen so it is in the GOP's interest to make this go away.

    That wouldn't actually help Trump - the people could still be called to give evidence and they could still blame Trump....
  • rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    Pretty much nailed on. But the Trump supporters vastly outnumber the tea party Neo Cons.

    Look at the Wyoming GOP's response to what Liz Cheney did. Outright condemnation. They were inundated with messages from voters yelling betrayal.

    Cheney will probably be primaried now, when the time comes. And not in a good way.

    Meanwhile Texas is throwing lawsuits at everything Biden is trying to do. They won;t win of course, but it just shows where we are.

    People might have laughed when anybody suggested the break-up of the USA even just a few years ago.

    Now? not so much. Not so much at all.
    Yeah, the US isn’t going to break up. Ain’t gonna happen.
    Yeah, to misquote Belloc "Whatever happens we [the US federal government] have got / Tanks and bombers and nukes and they have not."
    The US dollar - a currency backed with the heaviest currency. Plutonium.
    I remember a "Modest Proposal" type suggestion in New Scientist back in the eighties that currency should be backed not by gold or silver but nuclear waste. Part of the idea was that international aid could be delivered by ICBM...
  • CrabbieCrabbie Posts: 55

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    There are some on PB who fall into the first category. I mean, we all know about Contrarian, LuckyGuy and Mr Ed. But Ominium was on here just now saying that Trump was a better President than Obama.

    Quite a few PB Trumptons around, even now.
    FFS what is a 'Trumpton'

    Trumpton is a very sweet place, with its greengrocer shop and florist and fishmongers.

    The Westminster constituency is held by the LibDems, I believe.
    It kicks off at the weekend though.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uwflmfWfTM
  • Andy_JS said:
    "Meanwhile, the economy minister said Northern Ireland remained an integral part of the UK's internal market, with equal access to the other nations.

    However, Diane Dodds warned of the impact on products like steel, which could face tariffs of up to 25%."

    Integral? Riiiiiight.
  • Not sure if this has been linked before: https://www.covidfaq.co

    I imagine it will fall on deaf ears. Or rather fingers-in-ears.

    --AS
  • The PL should relegate West Ham for this bit of cheating.

    https://twitter.com/OliverKay/status/1351613276224954368
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    When do we find out who the lucky recipients of Trump's pardons will be ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,926
    edited January 2021

    I suppose it depends on just how bad Mitch wants the civil war in what's left of the GOP to be.

    Either A;

    Extremely bad and bitter

    or B:

    Full on schism, with the Trumpistas being by far the largest segment.

    Add eleven million instant citizens, plus more in immigration, and well, the democrats can do what they like.

    Pretty much for the duration.

    One day, investors might wake up to that fact.

    "Eleven million instant citizens."

    I remember the same line being pushed when Obama become President. Yet there were fewer (a lot fewer) naturalisations as a percentage of the population under Obama than under Bush. (Indeed, in the two biggest years for naturalisation in the US happened under the two Bushes - and as a percent of the population Bush Sr was probably almost twice the level of Obama.)

    Since 1996, US naturalisations have bounced around between 500,000 and 1,000,000 a year - with most years being around 700,000. As a percentage of the population, Obama's term probably had the lowest levels of naturalisation since the 1980s.

    So, you said "eleven million instant citizens".

    How confident are you in that forecast? Let's put some money on it, shall we?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    McConnell's a tease, he had better deliver.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are own by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    Cherry picking daily numbers? Welcome to the last 11 months?
  • Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
    Not really, certainly NOT in American history. Because the President is NOT just head of government, but also head of state. Thus from 1789 through 2021, the wife of the President has the same (or very similar) social and cultural status as Prince Philip.

    When I say social do NOT mean upper-crust society of the hoity-toity kind, even in half-baked colonial fashion. Instead, the expectations of the mass of American people, most especially the majority of American woman.

    My own mother, a child of the Great Depression who did not outlive the Reagan administration, was definitely a Democrat but not very politically-minded. She did, however, take an interest in the personalities and activities of all the First Ladies starting from when she was a girl and Eleanor Roosevelt was FLOTUS.

    The lens through which she viewed and judged First Ladies was NOT political, nor partisan.
    > Her favorite was Pat Nixon, whom she admired for being a loyal wife, good mother, well-spoken and classy.

    >Her least favorite was Jacqueline Kennedy, despite (or perhaps because) fact that she was enthusiastic Irish Catholic Democratic JFK supporter; in addition to wee touch of jealousy think she thought Jackie was too much of an elitist for her taste.

    That was then. BUT even today, the FLOTUS still matters. The personalities, activities, problems and achievements of the First Ladies have been the stuff of our history and politics since Martha Washington, and always will.

    BTW my own personal favorite First Lady is Dolley Madison. The extrovert Philadelphia widow & bombshell who turned White House entertaining into a major political asset for her way-more introverted hubby James Madison. His forte was writing the Constitution and creating the foundation for government; hers was lubricating the workings of that government with rum punch and a ready smile.

    Dolley also, as every American schoolchild used to know, before the British were able to burn the White House during the War of 1812 (aka Mr Madison's War) she ordered the Gilbert Stuart painting of George Washington taken down and removed to safety. By the White House slaves. Nevertheless, she did it, and we'll never forget it.

    Certainly impact of Mrs. Madison on her times AND subsequent generations was NOT overblown. Same can be said for Mary Toddy Lincoln and Eleanor Roosevelt. Similar case can be made for Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan, for Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. And others.

    In one sense, you are right - it IS overblown! But that's just how it is, or a least has been.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    Plenty of time til the next election to have one, it'll be cathartic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872

    rpjs said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The GOP needs a full blown civil war. No point trying to skirt round the Trumpers vs sane right wingers issue.

    Pretty much nailed on. But the Trump supporters vastly outnumber the tea party Neo Cons.

    Look at the Wyoming GOP's response to what Liz Cheney did. Outright condemnation. They were inundated with messages from voters yelling betrayal.

    Cheney will probably be primaried now, when the time comes. And not in a good way.

    Meanwhile Texas is throwing lawsuits at everything Biden is trying to do. They won;t win of course, but it just shows where we are.

    People might have laughed when anybody suggested the break-up of the USA even just a few years ago.

    Now? not so much. Not so much at all.
    Yeah, the US isn’t going to break up. Ain’t gonna happen.
    Yeah, to misquote Belloc "Whatever happens we [the US federal government] have got / Tanks and bombers and nukes and they have not."
    Bombers and nukes? You'll give HYUFD ideas.
    He'd never advocate nukes - we need to be able to enslave the local populations in an unirradiated hellscape (ie Scotland), not an iradiated hellscape.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are down by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    Yes, the risk with hugely overstating your case is that no-one listens to it at all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    edited January 2021

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
    Not really, certainly NOT in American history. Because the President is NOT just head of government, but also head of state. Thus from 1789 through 2021, the wife of the President has the same (or very similar) social and cultural status as Prince Philip.

    When I say social do NOT mean upper-crust society of the hoity-toity kind, even in half-baked colonial fashion. Instead, the expectations of the mass of American people, most especially the majority of American woman.

    My own mother, a child of the Great Depression who did not outlive the Reagan administration, was definitely a Democrat but not very politically-minded. She did, however, take an interest in the personalities and activities of all the First Ladies starting from when she was a girl and Eleanor Roosevelt was FLOTUS.

    The lens through which she viewed and judged First Ladies was NOT political, nor partisan.
    > Her favorite was Pat Nixon, whom she admired for being a loyal wife, good mother, well-spoken and classy.

    >Her least favorite was Jacqueline Kennedy, despite (or perhaps because) fact that she was enthusiastic Irish Catholic Democratic JFK supporter; in addition to wee touch of jealousy think she thought Jackie was too much of an elitist for her taste.

    That was then. BUT even today, the FLOTUS still matters. The personalities, activities, problems and achievements of the First Ladies have been the stuff of our history and politics since Martha Washington, and always will.

    BTW my own personal favorite First Lady is Dolley Madison. The extrovert Philadelphia widow & bombshell who turned White House entertaining into a major political asset for her way-more introverted hubby James Madison. His forte was writing the Constitution and creating the foundation for government; hers was lubricating the workings of that government with rum punch and a ready smile.

    Dolley also, as every American schoolchild used to know, before the British were able to burn the White House during the War of 1812 (aka Mr Madison's War) she ordered the Gilbert Stuart painting of George Washington taken down and removed to safety. By the White House slaves. Nevertheless, she did it, and we'll never forget it.

    Certainly impact of Mrs. Madison on her times AND subsequent generations was NOT overblown. Same can be said for Mary Toddy Lincoln and Eleanor Roosevelt. Similar case can be made for Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan, for Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. And others.

    In one sense, you are right - it IS overblown! But that's just how it is, or a least has been.
    Melania has been the most beautiful and elegant First Lady since Jackie Kennedy though, no doubt about that
  • 'Kin hell, did they put Chris Grayling in charge?

    https://twitter.com/maybulman/status/1351615053804548104
  • Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    Its the apocalypsofuck. These industries are going to collapse. Not because of a referendum asking if we should leave the EU. Because of political decisions to destroy British trade to appease morons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden will hopefully be the most boring president since George HW Bush, which is arguably just what the US needs.

    HW had a number of features - boring wasn't one of them. Understated, maybe.

    This was the guy who built a military coalition that included the Arabs and the Israelis - fighting on the same side.

    And used rock music to get Noriega into prison.
    And vomited copiously over the Japanese PM.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
    Not really, certainly NOT in American history. Because the President is NOT just head of government, but also head of state. Thus from 1789 through 2021, the wife of the President has the same (or very similar) social and cultural status as Prince Philip.

    When I say social do NOT mean upper-crust society of the hoity-toity kind, even in half-baked colonial fashion. Instead, the expectations of the mass of American people, most especially the majority of American woman.

    My own mother, a child of the Great Depression who did not outlive the Reagan administration, was definitely a Democrat but not very politically-minded. She did, however, take an interest in the personalities and activities of all the First Ladies starting from when she was a girl and Eleanor Roosevelt was FLOTUS.

    The lens through which she viewed and judged First Ladies was NOT political, nor partisan.
    > Her favorite was Pat Nixon, whom she admired for being a loyal wife, good mother, well-spoken and classy.

    >Her least favorite was Jacqueline Kennedy, despite (or perhaps because) fact that she was enthusiastic Irish Catholic Democratic JFK supporter; in addition to wee touch of jealousy think she thought Jackie was too much of an elitist for her taste.

    That was then. BUT even today, the FLOTUS still matters. The personalities, activities, problems and achievements of the First Ladies have been the stuff of our history and politics since Martha Washington, and always will.

    BTW my own personal favorite First Lady is Dolley Madison. The extrovert Philadelphia widow & bombshell who turned White House entertaining into a major political asset for her way-more introverted hubby James Madison. His forte was writing the Constitution and creating the foundation for government; hers was lubricating the workings of that government with rum punch and a ready smile.

    Dolley also, as every American schoolchild used to know, before the British were able to burn the White House during the War of 1812 (aka Mr Madison's War) she ordered the Gilbert Stuart painting of George Washington taken down and removed to safety. By the White House slaves. Nevertheless, she did it, and we'll never forget it.

    Certainly impact of Mrs. Madison on her times AND subsequent generations was NOT overblown. Same can be said for Mary Toddy Lincoln and Eleanor Roosevelt. Similar case can be made for Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan, for Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. And others.

    In one sense, you are right - it IS overblown! But that's just how it is, or a least has been.
    The partners of Heads of State being in the public eye makes sense, and perhaps even involved in politics to a degree. But where the Head of State is elected and significant, rather than ceremonial, it does come across as noteworthy than unelected, unappointed people are treated as of formal influence. On the other hand, at least it does recognise that people will be influenced by their spouses so you might as well make it official.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,825

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    Its the apocalypsofuck. These industries are going to collapse. Not because of a referendum asking if we should leave the EU. Because of political decisions to destroy British trade to appease morons.
    Amazing that they managed 20x just the day before.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
    Not really, certainly NOT in American history. Because the President is NOT just head of government, but also head of state. Thus from 1789 through 2021, the wife of the President has the same (or very similar) social and cultural status as Prince Philip.

    When I say social do NOT mean upper-crust society of the hoity-toity kind, even in half-baked colonial fashion. Instead, the expectations of the mass of American people, most especially the majority of American woman.

    My own mother, a child of the Great Depression who did not outlive the Reagan administration, was definitely a Democrat but not very politically-minded. She did, however, take an interest in the personalities and activities of all the First Ladies starting from when she was a girl and Eleanor Roosevelt was FLOTUS.

    The lens through which she viewed and judged First Ladies was NOT political, nor partisan.
    > Her favorite was Pat Nixon, whom she admired for being a loyal wife, good mother, well-spoken and classy.

    >Her least favorite was Jacqueline Kennedy, despite (or perhaps because) fact that she was enthusiastic Irish Catholic Democratic JFK supporter; in addition to wee touch of jealousy think she thought Jackie was too much of an elitist for her taste.

    That was then. BUT even today, the FLOTUS still matters. The personalities, activities, problems and achievements of the First Ladies have been the stuff of our history and politics since Martha Washington, and always will.

    BTW my own personal favorite First Lady is Dolley Madison. The extrovert Philadelphia widow & bombshell who turned White House entertaining into a major political asset for her way-more introverted hubby James Madison. His forte was writing the Constitution and creating the foundation for government; hers was lubricating the workings of that government with rum punch and a ready smile.

    Dolley also, as every American schoolchild used to know, before the British were able to burn the White House during the War of 1812 (aka Mr Madison's War) she ordered the Gilbert Stuart painting of George Washington taken down and removed to safety. By the White House slaves. Nevertheless, she did it, and we'll never forget it.

    Certainly impact of Mrs. Madison on her times AND subsequent generations was NOT overblown. Same can be said for Mary Toddy Lincoln and Eleanor Roosevelt. Similar case can be made for Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan, for Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. And others.

    In one sense, you are right - it IS overblown! But that's just how it is, or a least has been.
    Melania has been the most beautiful and elegant First Lady since Jackie Kennedy though, no doubt about that
    Good grief what planet are you on!?

    Do you call this elegant?...

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/10/02/melania-trump-audio-recording-christmas-stephanie-winston-wolkoff-sot-ac360-vpx.cnn
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
    Not really, certainly NOT in American history. Because the President is NOT just head of government, but also head of state. Thus from 1789 through 2021, the wife of the President has the same (or very similar) social and cultural status as Prince Philip.

    When I say social do NOT mean upper-crust society of the hoity-toity kind, even in half-baked colonial fashion. Instead, the expectations of the mass of American people, most especially the majority of American woman.

    My own mother, a child of the Great Depression who did not outlive the Reagan administration, was definitely a Democrat but not very politically-minded. She did, however, take an interest in the personalities and activities of all the First Ladies starting from when she was a girl and Eleanor Roosevelt was FLOTUS.

    The lens through which she viewed and judged First Ladies was NOT political, nor partisan.
    > Her favorite was Pat Nixon, whom she admired for being a loyal wife, good mother, well-spoken and classy.

    >Her least favorite was Jacqueline Kennedy, despite (or perhaps because) fact that she was enthusiastic Irish Catholic Democratic JFK supporter; in addition to wee touch of jealousy think she thought Jackie was too much of an elitist for her taste.

    That was then. BUT even today, the FLOTUS still matters. The personalities, activities, problems and achievements of the First Ladies have been the stuff of our history and politics since Martha Washington, and always will.

    BTW my own personal favorite First Lady is Dolley Madison. The extrovert Philadelphia widow & bombshell who turned White House entertaining into a major political asset for her way-more introverted hubby James Madison. His forte was writing the Constitution and creating the foundation for government; hers was lubricating the workings of that government with rum punch and a ready smile.

    Dolley also, as every American schoolchild used to know, before the British were able to burn the White House during the War of 1812 (aka Mr Madison's War) she ordered the Gilbert Stuart painting of George Washington taken down and removed to safety. By the White House slaves. Nevertheless, she did it, and we'll never forget it.

    Certainly impact of Mrs. Madison on her times AND subsequent generations was NOT overblown. Same can be said for Mary Toddy Lincoln and Eleanor Roosevelt. Similar case can be made for Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan, for Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. And others.

    In one sense, you are right - it IS overblown! But that's just how it is, or a least has been.
    Melania has been the most beautiful and elegant First Lady since Jackie Kennedy though, no doubt about that
    Jackie wowed the American people with her televised tour of the White House.

    AND knocked the socks off the crown head of Europe, in competition with Eva Peron.

    Melania? Not so much.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    I suppose it depends on just how bad Mitch wants the civil war in what's left of the GOP to be.

    Either A;

    Extremely bad and bitter

    or B:

    Full on schism, with the Trumpistas being by far the largest segment.

    Add eleven million instant citizens, plus more in immigration, and well, the democrats can do what they like.

    Pretty much for the duration.

    One day, investors might wake up to that fact.

    Breaking with the President who attempted a self coup by inciting an assault
    on Congress is probably the best choice, if the Republican party is to have a democratic future.
    The level of the stock market is something of a secondary concern.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    Pulpstar said:

    When do we find out who the lucky recipients of Trump's pardons will be ?

    Hoping to be on the list?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are down by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    Yes, the risk with hugely overstating your case is that no-one listens to it at all.
    Quite so. A bit like those who claim that 'wokeism' is the biggest threat to western civilisation; people just stop listening. :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Biden will hopefully be the most boring president since George HW Bush, which is arguably just what the US needs.

    HW had a number of features - boring wasn't one of them. Understated, maybe.

    This was the guy who built a military coalition that included the Arabs and the Israelis - fighting on the same side.

    And used rock music to get Noriega into prison.
    And vomited copiously over the Japanese PM.
    He was still my favourite President
  • MaxPB said:

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are own by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    Cherry picking daily numbers? Welcome to the last 11 months?
    So business is *only* 40% down because of Brexit?

    They really should stop moaning then...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
    Not really, certainly NOT in American history. Because the President is NOT just head of government, but also head of state. Thus from 1789 through 2021, the wife of the President has the same (or very similar) social and cultural status as Prince Philip.

    When I say social do NOT mean upper-crust society of the hoity-toity kind, even in half-baked colonial fashion. Instead, the expectations of the mass of American people, most especially the majority of American woman.

    My own mother, a child of the Great Depression who did not outlive the Reagan administration, was definitely a Democrat but not very politically-minded. She did, however, take an interest in the personalities and activities of all the First Ladies starting from when she was a girl and Eleanor Roosevelt was FLOTUS.

    The lens through which she viewed and judged First Ladies was NOT political, nor partisan.
    > Her favorite was Pat Nixon, whom she admired for being a loyal wife, good mother, well-spoken and classy.

    >Her least favorite was Jacqueline Kennedy, despite (or perhaps because) fact that she was enthusiastic Irish Catholic Democratic JFK supporter; in addition to wee touch of jealousy think she thought Jackie was too much of an elitist for her taste.

    That was then. BUT even today, the FLOTUS still matters. The personalities, activities, problems and achievements of the First Ladies have been the stuff of our history and politics since Martha Washington, and always will.

    BTW my own personal favorite First Lady is Dolley Madison. The extrovert Philadelphia widow & bombshell who turned White House entertaining into a major political asset for her way-more introverted hubby James Madison. His forte was writing the Constitution and creating the foundation for government; hers was lubricating the workings of that government with rum punch and a ready smile.

    Dolley also, as every American schoolchild used to know, before the British were able to burn the White House during the War of 1812 (aka Mr Madison's War) she ordered the Gilbert Stuart painting of George Washington taken down and removed to safety. By the White House slaves. Nevertheless, she did it, and we'll never forget it.

    Certainly impact of Mrs. Madison on her times AND subsequent generations was NOT overblown. Same can be said for Mary Toddy Lincoln and Eleanor Roosevelt. Similar case can be made for Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan, for Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. And others.

    In one sense, you are right - it IS overblown! But that's just how it is, or a least has been.
    Melania has been the most beautiful and elegant First Lady since Jackie Kennedy though, no doubt about that
    Good grief what planet are you on!?

    Do you call this elegant?...

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/10/02/melania-trump-audio-recording-christmas-stephanie-winston-wolkoff-sot-ac360-vpx.cnn
    What has her views on the Christmas decorations got to do with it? Visually she has been the most beautiful First Lady since Jackie Kennedy, no question
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    FWIW, I think Brexit is posing challenges for the export of fresh meat and fresh fish, and on intra GB/NI UK trade. That's because it relates to SPS controls which require health certificates, vets, agents, and aligned IT systems, which clearly aren't there yet, together with a level of pedantry on the details. However, it is otherwise working smoothly at both the UK and EU borders, except where Covid and Covid LFTs are slowing things down to and France France.

    We will naturally hear the horror stories - and there will be some given only c.40% of businesses were ready for this and we had no transition period - but we really need raw data on successful/unsuccessful transits at Dover/Calais, the new timelines on JIT delivery routes and the new costs of the NTBs to form an objective assessment of the impact.
  • MaxPB said:

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are own by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    Cherry picking daily numbers? Welcome to the last 11 months?
    So business is *only* 40% down because of Brexit?

    They really should stop moaning then...
    Note I didn't say 'only'. I also said it was bad. But pretending it is 4% of what it was last year is simply dishonest - and exactly what I would expect from those Remoaners who still refuse to accept we have left.

    And anyone reposting that rubbish as fact is equally as dishonest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,872
    edited January 2021
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've read that Melania Trump hasn't followed the tradition of previous First ladies by offering Jill Biden tea and a tour of the White House.

    That just sounds mean-spirited and so typical of the Trump brand.

    I wouldn't accept without a FFP3 mask and airtight goggles given how covid-happy the Trumps are - and that rather obviates the tea bit.
    No-one voted for Melania Trump and no-one voted for Jill Biden. The whole First Lady thing is overblown.
    Not really, certainly NOT in American history. Because the President is NOT just head of government, but also head of state. Thus from 1789 through 2021, the wife of the President has the same (or very similar) social and cultural status as Prince Philip.

    When I say social do NOT mean upper-crust society of the hoity-toity kind, even in half-baked colonial fashion. Instead, the expectations of the mass of American people, most especially the majority of American woman.

    My own mother, a child of the Great Depression who did not outlive the Reagan administration, was definitely a Democrat but not very politically-minded. She did, however, take an interest in the personalities and activities of all the First Ladies starting from when she was a girl and Eleanor Roosevelt was FLOTUS.

    The lens through which she viewed and judged First Ladies was NOT political, nor partisan.
    > Her favorite was Pat Nixon, whom she admired for being a loyal wife, good mother, well-spoken and classy.

    >Her least favorite was Jacqueline Kennedy, despite (or perhaps because) fact that she was enthusiastic Irish Catholic Democratic JFK supporter; in addition to wee touch of jealousy think she thought Jackie was too much of an elitist for her taste.

    That was then. BUT even today, the FLOTUS still matters. The personalities, activities, problems and achievements of the First Ladies have been the stuff of our history and politics since Martha Washington, and always will.

    BTW my own personal favorite First Lady is Dolley Madison. The extrovert Philadelphia widow & bombshell who turned White House entertaining into a major political asset for her way-more introverted hubby James Madison. His forte was writing the Constitution and creating the foundation for government; hers was lubricating the workings of that government with rum punch and a ready smile.

    Dolley also, as every American schoolchild used to know, before the British were able to burn the White House during the War of 1812 (aka Mr Madison's War) she ordered the Gilbert Stuart painting of George Washington taken down and removed to safety. By the White House slaves. Nevertheless, she did it, and we'll never forget it.

    Certainly impact of Mrs. Madison on her times AND subsequent generations was NOT overblown. Same can be said for Mary Toddy Lincoln and Eleanor Roosevelt. Similar case can be made for Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan, for Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama. And others.

    In one sense, you are right - it IS overblown! But that's just how it is, or a least has been.
    Melania has been the most beautiful and elegant First Lady since Jackie Kennedy though, no doubt about that
    Good grief what planet are you on!?

    Do you call this elegant?...

    https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/10/02/melania-trump-audio-recording-christmas-stephanie-winston-wolkoff-sot-ac360-vpx.cnn
    What has that got to do with anything? Visually she is the most beautiful First Lady since Jackie Kennedy, no question
    HYUFD: She is beautiful and elegant
    Benpointer: She's not elegant
    HYUFD: What's that got to do with anything? She is beautiful

    You literally stated she was elegant. Someone else claimed she is not elegant. How can you claim elegance has nothing to do with this when you were the one who brought it up?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    I do wish people would do a little bit of research before they repeat bollocks like this.

    Today there were 418 boxes from 3 vessels landed. (Not the 220 claimed in the tweet)

    But guess what.

    Yesterday there were 4333 boxes landed from 19 vessels.
    Last Monday there were 6370 boxes landed from 20 vessels

    Yes I am sure Brexit is having an effect but this sort of cherry picking of numbers to try and con people - and the fact so many on here are stupid enough to fall for it - just shows how desperate some people are for Brexit to fail.

    You can look at all the numbers on the Peterhead port authority site. I reckon looking at the numbers on there and comparing to last year that landings are down by about 40%. This is bad. But the idea it has completely collapsed is just garbage.
    Yes, the risk with hugely overstating your case is that no-one listens to it at all.
    Quite so. A bit like those who claim that 'wokeism' is the biggest threat to western civilisation; people just stop listening. :)
    I didn't say that. You can read what I said about the threat to Western civilisation here:

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/11/15/the-fall-of-the-west/
  • Wasn't someone on earlier saying these pics were probably not even current and possibly staged (by the EU and ScotGov funded ‘trade association' no doubt)?

    https://twitter.com/JMPSimor/status/1351511829672030209?s=20

    Its the apocalypsofuck. These industries are going to collapse. Not because of a referendum asking if we should leave the EU. Because of political decisions to destroy British trade to appease morons.
    So you support posting false claims to support your case. Says a lot about your honesty and integrity.
This discussion has been closed.