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David Herdson’s 2021 predictions – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Pulpstar said:

    Called it.
    ://twitter.com/skynews/status/1345340376794734592?s=21

    Who on earth is floating these hare brained plans ?
    The government.

    And it seems a bit harsh to compare them to hares, which are beautiful animals who can move fast when necessary.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    edited January 2021

    Edit
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    Stocky said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you @david_herdson.

    I think you are altogether too optimistic about the vaccination programme.

    Anyway, yesterday marked the day when I officially became Chair of Trustees of a London primary school. The one I went to in fact. It taught me a lot - not just what you'd expect from a good school but what to aspire to if you want to try to be a good person. So it feels right to be giving something back.

    And this morning I have urgent calls with the Headmistress re the plans for online learning.

    The mess Gavin Williamson is making of everything does not give me confidence in the vaccination programme or anything else this government touches, frankly. I am not a scientist but the idea of mixing and matching vaccines sounds peculiar. What is the scientific basis for it? What are the risks?

    Regarding mixing and matching the vaccines, I imagine that the main driver is to vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible - no matter which particular vaccine. Better to go for quick, maximum possible coverage over the supply issues which would come with backing one manufacturer only.
    I think it's fine to mix and match amongst the population, but if someone is on Pfizer, they need to stick to pfizer second dose - not have a second Oxford or Moderna dose.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Pulpstar said:

    Stocky said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you @david_herdson.

    I think you are altogether too optimistic about the vaccination programme.

    Anyway, yesterday marked the day when I officially became Chair of Trustees of a London primary school. The one I went to in fact. It taught me a lot - not just what you'd expect from a good school but what to aspire to if you want to try to be a good person. So it feels right to be giving something back.

    And this morning I have urgent calls with the Headmistress re the plans for online learning.

    The mess Gavin Williamson is making of everything does not give me confidence in the vaccination programme or anything else this government touches, frankly. I am not a scientist but the idea of mixing and matching vaccines sounds peculiar. What is the scientific basis for it? What are the risks?

    Regarding mixing and matching the vaccines, I imagine that the main driver is to vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible - no matter which particular vaccine. Better to go for quick, maximum possible coverage over the supply issues which would come with backing one manufacturer only.
    I think it's fine to mix and match amongst the population, but if someone is on Pfizer, they need to stick to pfizer second dose - not have a second Oxford or Moderna dose.
    Agreed - I misunderstood Cyclefree`s original post.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2021
    Barring some truly unexpected event the SNP will win an outright majority in Holyrood, backed for the independence issue by a decent sized bloc of Greens. The pro-independence parties will be dominant at Holyrood and have a clear mandate for an independence referendum that on current opinion polling they will win comfortably.

    Boris Johnson appears to have decided his political interest is served by irredentism. It plays to his base, who are English Nationalists; he embarrasses Starmer by lumping him in with the SNP and it avoids him going into the history books as the prime minister, Lord North style, who lost Scotland.

    I can't stress this enough, Johnson also totally undermines his Scottish Conservative colleagues. English nationalism has a very limited market in Scotland. Douglas Ross and his colleagues are trying to promote the benefits of Union while Johnson is making it very clear that Scotland's interest is irrelevant. Unionists, who are already a minority, are split. There is no way Labour will join in Johnson's project.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Called it.
    ://twitter.com/skynews/status/1345340376794734592?s=21

    Who on earth is floating these hare brained plans ?
    The government.

    And it seems a bit harsh to compare them to hares, which are beautiful animals who can move fast when necessary.
    And are only obviously mad for one month in the year.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Who on earth is floating these hare brained plans ?
    The government who have truly messed up the plans for a vaccination rollout. They need to stop overpromising and then underdelivering, Boris Johnson tries to do positive and screws it up, remember back to normal by Christmas?

    He's been aided and abetted by the CMOs who earlier on in the pandemic thought wearing masks should be avoided.
  • NAHT (Heads' Union) undertaking legal proceedings against Williamson. They are the most tame of all teaching unions, I'm fairly surprised.

    https://www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR2M6J4pDs4oE32c1vF_7dvvmV6QXorX0a4pZPSwTbKECVDpKRscDl5gOXo
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    FF43 said:

    Barring some truly unexpected event the SNP will win an outright majority in Holyrood, backed for the independence issue by a decent sized bloc of Greens. The pro-independence parties will be dominant at Holyrood and have a clear mandate for an independence referendum that on current opinion polling they will win comfortably.

    Boris Johnson appears to have decided his political interest is served by irredentism. It plays to his base, who are English Nationalists; he embarrasses Starmer by lumping him in with the SNP and it avoids him going into the history books as the prime minister, Lord North style, who lost Scotland.

    I can't stress this enough, Johnson also totally undermines his Scottish Conservative colleagues. English nationalism has a very limited market in Scotland. Douglas Ross and his colleagues are trying to promote the benefits of Union while Johnson is making it very clear that Scotland's interest is irrelevant. Unionists, who are already a minority, are split. There is no way Labour will join in Johnson's project.

    If the Scottish fishing industry, or even only some of it, is disadvantaged by the Brexit deal Johnson won't have to worry about Ross and colleagues; they'll be out.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    'If you look at increases per country over the last seven days and cases per 100 000, in Scotland you are sitting at around 160, in Wales they are well up over 400 and heading towards 500. In England about 440 and Northern Ireland 370.' Prof Bauld but buried in Scotland's media 'Hospital ICU capacity in Scotland is still in a pretty good state and we have already committed to being able to double that if we have to.' Professor Linda Bauld today in the Herald but nowhere else in Scotland's media.
    If you only looked at BBC propaganda you would believe we are the opposite.

    The wife of one of my work colleagues works in a hospital in Dundee and they have been taking ICU patients from North East England to help ease the pressure there.
    Good to hear Richard. Hopefully our numbers are not just behind in schedule and stay lower, keep dropping.
    Assume once England/Wales/NI have a month 's lockdown they will hopefully drop as well. Concerned that system will cope with number of patients though and they may well get to stage where they have to pick and choose who gets treatment, if not there already.
    Not sure where you got the figures from for Wales. Wales' figures have been dropping for at least 14 days now. They were at 600+ per 100,000 but they are now at 450 and dropping.

    Also Wales has been locked down since 20th December as well.
    numbers are close to current though especially given holidays , even if Wales is now dropping they are still fairly high and over 400 as stated.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    NAHT (Heads' Union) undertaking legal proceedings against Williamson. They are the most tame of all teaching unions, I'm fairly surprised.

    https://www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR2M6J4pDs4oE32c1vF_7dvvmV6QXorX0a4pZPSwTbKECVDpKRscDl5gOXo

    Good for them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Stocky said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you @david_herdson.

    I think you are altogether too optimistic about the vaccination programme.

    Anyway, yesterday marked the day when I officially became Chair of Trustees of a London primary school. The one I went to in fact. It taught me a lot - not just what you'd expect from a good school but what to aspire to if you want to try to be a good person. So it feels right to be giving something back.

    And this morning I have urgent calls with the Headmistress re the plans for online learning.

    The mess Gavin Williamson is making of everything does not give me confidence in the vaccination programme or anything else this government touches, frankly. I am not a scientist but the idea of mixing and matching vaccines sounds peculiar. What is the scientific basis for it? What are the risks?

    Regarding mixing and matching the vaccines, I imagine that the main driver is to vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible - no matter which particular vaccine. Better to go for quick, maximum possible coverage over the supply issues which would come with backing one manufacturer only.
    I think it's fine to mix and match amongst the population, but if someone is on Pfizer, they need to stick to pfizer second dose - not have a second Oxford or Moderna dose.
    Agreed - I misunderstood Cyclefree`s original post.
    I suspect the guidance which I posted near the top of the thread was based on a similar, but far less forgivable misunderstanding.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    NAHT (Heads' Union) undertaking legal proceedings against Williamson. They are the most tame of all teaching unions, I'm fairly surprised.

    https://www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR2M6J4pDs4oE32c1vF_7dvvmV6QXorX0a4pZPSwTbKECVDpKRscDl5gOXo

    Actually - it looks more serious than that:

    https://www.tes.com/news/national-teacher-walk-out-over-covid-safety-expected

    (I am not a member of the NEU, nor have my union balloted on this.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267
    edited January 2021
    FF43 said:

    Barring some truly unexpected event the SNP will win an outright majority in Holyrood, backed for the independence issue by a decent sized bloc of Greens. The pro-independence parties will be dominant at Holyrood and have a clear mandate for an independence referendum that on current opinion polling they will win comfortably.

    Boris Johnson appears to have decided his political interest is served by irredentism. It plays to his base, who are English Nationalists; he embarrasses Starmer by lumping him in with the SNP and it avoids him going into the history books as the prime minister, Lord North style, who lost Scotland.

    I can't stress this enough, Johnson also totally undermines his Scottish Conservative colleagues. English nationalism has a very limited market in Scotland. Douglas Ross and his colleagues are trying to promote the benefits of Union while Johnson is making it very clear that Scotland's interest is irrelevant. Unionists, who are already a minority, are split. There is no way Labour will join in Johnson's project.

    Of course they won't as without the support of Scottish, specifically SNP MPs, there is zero chance of a Starmer premiership in 2024.

    If Scotland left the UK there would almost certainly be another Tory majority in England and Wales at the next general election. Boris does not need Scotland for a Tory majority but cannot afford to be seen to have lost the Union if he is to stay PM, Starmer cannot afford to lose Scotland to have a chance of becoming PM but has more chance of winning indyref2 than Boris.

    Hence any indyref2, whatever the outcome of Holyrood 2021, would only be allowed by Westminster under a Starmer premiership
  • ydoethur said:

    NAHT (Heads' Union) undertaking legal proceedings against Williamson. They are the most tame of all teaching unions, I'm fairly surprised.

    https://www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR2M6J4pDs4oE32c1vF_7dvvmV6QXorX0a4pZPSwTbKECVDpKRscDl5gOXo

    Good for them.
    It does demonstrate exactly how far in the shit we are. Williamson isn't fit for public office.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears


  • Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    If it were based on the UK system then an absolute majority of constituencies would be sufficient for constitutional change. Hopefully you will stick to that view if the SNP win a majority later this year.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Stocky said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you @david_herdson.

    I think you are altogether too optimistic about the vaccination programme.

    Anyway, yesterday marked the day when I officially became Chair of Trustees of a London primary school. The one I went to in fact. It taught me a lot - not just what you'd expect from a good school but what to aspire to if you want to try to be a good person. So it feels right to be giving something back.

    And this morning I have urgent calls with the Headmistress re the plans for online learning.

    The mess Gavin Williamson is making of everything does not give me confidence in the vaccination programme or anything else this government touches, frankly. I am not a scientist but the idea of mixing and matching vaccines sounds peculiar. What is the scientific basis for it? What are the risks?

    Regarding mixing and matching the vaccines, I imagine that the main driver is to vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible - no matter which particular vaccine. Better to go for quick, maximum possible coverage over the supply issues which would come with backing one manufacturer only.
    I think it's fine to mix and match amongst the population, but if someone is on Pfizer, they need to stick to pfizer second dose - not have a second Oxford or Moderna dose.
    Agreed - I misunderstood Cyclefree`s original post.
    I suspect the guidance which I posted near the top of the thread was based on a similar, but far less forgivable misunderstanding.
    The rationale was to avoid wasted appointments, and the danger that someone might not rebook their shot.
    Given that we’ve already planned for significant delays in booster shots, that makes little sense - but it would be eminently sensible in the case of the first shot.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    Looking forward to that point when a UK gov suggests another EU referendum and chilled out Brexiteers being totally fine with them fiddling about with the franchise of the 2016 referendum to help out that government's desired outcome.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,851
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    'If you look at increases per country over the last seven days and cases per 100 000, in Scotland you are sitting at around 160, in Wales they are well up over 400 and heading towards 500. In England about 440 and Northern Ireland 370.' Prof Bauld but buried in Scotland's media 'Hospital ICU capacity in Scotland is still in a pretty good state and we have already committed to being able to double that if we have to.' Professor Linda Bauld today in the Herald but nowhere else in Scotland's media.
    If you only looked at BBC propaganda you would believe we are the opposite.

    The wife of one of my work colleagues works in a hospital in Dundee and they have been taking ICU patients from North East England to help ease the pressure there.
    Good to hear Richard. Hopefully our numbers are not just behind in schedule and stay lower, keep dropping.
    Assume once England/Wales/NI have a month 's lockdown they will hopefully drop as well. Concerned that system will cope with number of patients though and they may well get to stage where they have to pick and choose who gets treatment, if not there already.
    Not sure where you got the figures from for Wales. Wales' figures have been dropping for at least 14 days now. They were at 600+ per 100,000 but they are now at 450 and dropping.

    Also Wales has been locked down since 20th December as well.
    numbers are close to current though especially given holidays , even if Wales is now dropping they are still fairly high and over 400 as stated.
    agreed

    :smile:
    :
  • malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,851

    malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
    I remember this I think, I was a young teacher in my first school. 1990s I think. All the staff were in the pool. We got £51 each.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    Please keep posting, don`t take offence, it`s only Malcy and he has a special licence.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
    A friend of a work colleague got 6 numbers in the lottery many years ago - really really excited.

    Turns out it was the week that loads of people had 6 numbers and he got less than 200k - he was gutted.

  • ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Williamson is an armchair general. He's fighting an imaginary battle with the dangerous Commie *checks notes* Primary school teachers.

    I assume he has naked pictures of literally everyone in the Cabinet, or Boris is saving his inevitable sacking for when he needs a distraction from one of his own screw-ups.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    Good morning everyone. And thanks Mr H for your forecast. However, I'm inclined to agree with Mr Clipp; the Government looks as though it may well be in serious chaos by the end of the year. The question has to arise; who is to replace anyone who leaves the Government. There doesn't seem to be a wealth of talent on the Conservative benches.

    I’m afraid that’s what happens when candidates are selected for ‘outside’ bets to win, you don’t get the cream of aspiring politicians and end up with a lot of dead wood or even worse unpredictable self motivated individuals. When you’ve already sacked the A team and appointed theB team based on loyalty to brexit leaves you little room for maneuver and any quality left will be seen as a threat to the incumbent.
    Indeed; and there's little chance of a by election bringing anyone else in. It has to be said, tough, that Labour doesn't appear to have a group of whizz-kids ready to challenge either.
    Although maybe the opportunity hasn't 't yet arisen, but, for example, I can't recall who leads for Labour on Education. Maybe, of course, I haven't been paying attention.
    Kate Green - notable fior 'wokeness' I'm afraid and anti-monarchism.
    Thanks; should I try to remember?

    On Dr F's point, AIUI the 'Family Doctor' system that we have in the UK is, I understand, unusual. While it has it's disadvantages...... no-one can be expert in everything ....... it does mean that there's are local reference points where everyones records are held.
    I thought that’s what computers were for everything in one place accessible from multiple points including by the patient, doesn’t every modern health service have this facility?
    No. I do a lot of work with diabetes, and because of the GP system, get updates on numbers of people with the diagnosis, including personal demographic data. This is updated daily, so I can track and plan services for the 76 000 with diabetes in Leics and Rutland.

    When I go to conferences, apart from the Scandinavians none of my international peers has anything like the quality of data. Apart from occasional epidemiological surveys they don't generally even know how many they have, nor what their current issues are. It is a different style of practice. While care can be excellent, it can also be very patchy, and diabetes care amongst the poor in America is truly appalling.

    GP registers are a major strength of the UK public health system. Fragmented privatised care has some utility, over centralised systems, but when it comes to systematic planning of a vaccine programme, it is no contest.
    I can see almost all of my medical records, as to whether this results in any analysis is a different matter. It does save carrying around large quantities of paper.
    Yes - the Spanish centralised prescription reords are also very handy right now. Simple phonecall and instant 3 months renewal.
    Same here in Scotland, one phone call and it is delivered to my house in 2 working days, superb service.
    Morning Malc

    Our prescriptions are automatically prescribed every month for six months then a review with the doctor

    It is one of the few things working well under labour's Wales NHS
    Off topic

    It is not.

    Several years ago I cleared my late father's house out of repeat prescriptions. Amongst the multiple 500 packs of Paracetamol, I found enough Tramadol to shame a Columbian drugs cartel.

    On returning the items to the pharmacy I was told I could not reduce the delivery schedule on his behalf due to having no authority so to do. When I cleared the house out post-mortem for the final time, I returned several more carrier bags of unused medication.

    It is a dangerous scandal.
    Morning G, Crazy to pre-deliver stuff without contact, though I suppose some people have shedloads on regular basis. At least having to phone up to order means you cut a lot of the waste out. They also don't let you phone up the next week and order another one, they will do it a week or so early but don't allow abuse of system.

    PS: Morning to MexicanPete as well, in my top favourite posters
    That's what I mean by well-managed. Scotlands pharmacy service always seemed to me to be better organised than those in England, although it could be that I only spoke to, and read of, the 'good' people.
    When my mum died of cancer we found enough liquid morphine in her house to render the whole of Glenrothes comatose for a month. It was being delivered to her regularly by the pharmacy but she was clearly rarely using it.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    Looking forward to that point when a UK gov suggests another EU referendum and chilled out Brexiteers being totally fine with them fiddling about with the franchise of the 2016 referendum to help out that government's desired outcome.
    I don't support franchises being fiddled about with to support short-term political objectives, whether or not I share those objectives. Simple as that.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Barring some truly unexpected event the SNP will win an outright majority in Holyrood, backed for the independence issue by a decent sized bloc of Greens. The pro-independence parties will be dominant at Holyrood and have a clear mandate for an independence referendum that on current opinion polling they will win comfortably.

    Boris Johnson appears to have decided his political interest is served by irredentism. It plays to his base, who are English Nationalists; he embarrasses Starmer by lumping him in with the SNP and it avoids him going into the history books as the prime minister, Lord North style, who lost Scotland.

    I can't stress this enough, Johnson also totally undermines his Scottish Conservative colleagues. English nationalism has a very limited market in Scotland. Douglas Ross and his colleagues are trying to promote the benefits of Union while Johnson is making it very clear that Scotland's interest is irrelevant. Unionists, who are already a minority, are split. There is no way Labour will join in Johnson's project.

    Of course they won't as without the support of Scottish, specifically SNP MPs, there is zero chance of a Starmer premiership in 2024.

    If Scotland left the UK there would almost certainly be another Tory majority in England and Wales at the next general election. Boris does not need Scotland for a Tory majority but cannot afford to be seen to have lost the Union if he is to stay PM, Starmer cannot afford to lose Scotland to have a chance of becoming PM but has more chance of winning indyref2 than Boris.

    Hence any indyref2, whatever the outcome of Holyrood 2021, would only be allowed by Westminster under a Starmer premiership
    Johnson (disapproval rating in Scotland: 75%) decides he can settle Scotland's future, according to his sole whim, entirely in his own interest, and in opposition to a mandate that has clearly been expressed in Scotland.

    Problematic, I think.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Williamson is an armchair general. He's fighting an imaginary battle with the dangerous Commie *checks notes* Primary school teachers.

    I assume he has naked pictures of literally everyone in the Cabinet
    Excuse me while I throw up.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    Well it is hard to chill when you post such crap. You want to stop democracy , cancel the standard Scottish voting system, rig the vote to be NO and then have the cheek to tell me to chill out. Why not just put us all in re-education camps and be done with it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Williamson is an armchair general. He's fighting an imaginary battle with the dangerous Commie *checks notes* Primary school teachers.

    I assume he has naked pictures of literally everyone in the Cabinet, or Boris is saving his inevitable sacking for when he needs a distraction from one of his own screw-ups.
    More Corporal Jones than General methinks.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    Morning all and thank you David H for interesting Header. Strikes me I haven’t posted any serious predictions myself for 21 and so to quickly put that right -

    Dems do the double in Georgia and gain control of the senate.
    Joe Biden becomes a popular uniting figure.
    Donald Trump leaves the White House in a horizontal position and thereafter fades away.
    So does Brexit. It still features but without the heat.
    Near term Covid meets the worse case scenario. The NHS collapses in many places.
    Nevertheless by August it’s all over and we’re back to normal.
    Except we’re not because the public finances are utterly wrecked.
    This problem will not be faced up to by the Johnson government.
    Neither will the need for Sindy2.
    But in better news for Scotland, Andy Murray has a big Wimbledon.

    5 correct 5 wrong.
    You don't think Andy is going to win Wimbo?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
    A friend of a work colleague got 6 numbers in the lottery many years ago - really really excited.

    Turns out it was the week that loads of people had 6 numbers and he got less than 200k - he was gutted.

    200K is not to be sniffed at , most people would be delighted with that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited January 2021

    malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
    There was a time in the late ‘90s that numbers 1 and 7 both got drawn in the national lottery. 120ish people got all six numbers that night, good for something like £16k each of a £2m jackpot.

    No doubt many of them called their boss when slightly the worse for wear that night, saying exactly where they could stuff their job, before the computer did its thing and they realised they weren’t quite as rich as they thought they were!

    (I’ll try and look up the exact details, I was working part time in a convenience store at the time).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Stocky said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    Please keep posting, don`t take offence, it`s only Malcy and he has a special licence.
    You try to toughen these boys up from being wobbly jellies who don't think and you don't expect thanks. I am happy doing it as a public service.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Close down foreign travel during a pandemic you say? Nope, there’s much more important stuff to be done.

    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1344686127341596672?s=21

    Yeah, the EU have nothing better to do than police our number-plates, huh? Like, you know, France, you see this as a priority over, oh, I don't know, vaccinating your people?
    You seem very angry with the EU this morning. Perhaps we should try to leave.
    Be fair, it's going to take them a while to find something else to blame for all the UK's inadequacies and problems.
  • Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    Looking forward to that point when a UK gov suggests another EU referendum and chilled out Brexiteers being totally fine with them fiddling about with the franchise of the 2016 referendum to help out that government's desired outcome.
    I don't support franchises being fiddled about with to support short-term political objectives, whether or not I share those objectives. Simple as that.
    I'd suggest changing the franchise of a previous referendum which is also the general franchise of the country holding the referendum very much constitutes fiddling about.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
    I had one win on the pools , got cheque for 2/6d, kept it as a momento.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    'If you look at increases per country over the last seven days and cases per 100 000, in Scotland you are sitting at around 160, in Wales they are well up over 400 and heading towards 500. In England about 440 and Northern Ireland 370.' Prof Bauld but buried in Scotland's media 'Hospital ICU capacity in Scotland is still in a pretty good state and we have already committed to being able to double that if we have to.' Professor Linda Bauld today in the Herald but nowhere else in Scotland's media.
    If you only looked at BBC propaganda you would believe we are the opposite.

    The wife of one of my work colleagues works in a hospital in Dundee and they have been taking ICU patients from North East England to help ease the pressure there.
    Good to hear Richard. Hopefully our numbers are not just behind in schedule and stay lower, keep dropping.
    Assume once England/Wales/NI have a month 's lockdown they will hopefully drop as well. Concerned that system will cope with number of patients though and they may well get to stage where they have to pick and choose who gets treatment, if not there already.
    Not sure where you got the figures from for Wales. Wales' figures have been dropping for at least 14 days now. They were at 600+ per 100,000 but they are now at 450 and dropping.

    Also Wales has been locked down since 20th December as well.
    numbers are close to current though especially given holidays , even if Wales is now dropping they are still fairly high and over 400 as stated.
    agreed

    :smile:
    :
    Hopefully they keep dropping and fast.
  • ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
    There was a time in the late ‘90s that numbers 1 and 7 both got drawn in the national lottery. 120ish people got all six numbers that night, good for something like £16k each of a £2m jackpot.

    No doubt many of them called their boss when slightly the worse for wear that night, saying exactly where they could stuff their job, before the computer did its thing and they realised they weren’t quite as rich as they thought they were!

    (I’ll try and look up the exact details, I was working part time in a convenience store at the time).
    Edit: possibly this one:
    Back on Saturday 14th January 1995, a staggering 133 players shared a Lotto jackpot of £16.2 million after matching the numbers 7, 17, 23, 32, 38 and 42. Why did so many ticket holders pick the same, apparently-random numbers? It was discovered that they were all printed in the central columns of the playslip, and so each winner had to be content with receiving a £122,510 payout.
    https://www.national-lottery.com/news/what-are-the-most-unusual-lotto-results-ever

    Not a bad win, but not tell-your-boss-to-f***-his-job money either.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Called it.
    ://twitter.com/skynews/status/1345340376794734592?s=21

    Who on earth is floating these hare brained plans ?
    The government.

    And it seems a bit harsh to compare them to hares, which are beautiful animals who can move fast when necessary.
    And are only obviously mad for one month in the year.
    Not the worst comparison though - because they do end up going to the dogs.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021
    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.

    Edit: I hope we can all agree that it's ok for 18 year olds to vote!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2021
    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Anyone with permanent residence in Scotland is now in the franchise. Presumably your objection to EU citizens also applies to Commonwealth and Irish citizens who have always had the right to vote in UK elections?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Stocky said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    Please keep posting, don`t take offence, it`s only Malcy and he has a special licence.
    Like Gordon Ramsey.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
    I had one win on the pools , got cheque for 2/6d, kept it as a momento.
    A half-crown PO is probably now collectable. Just hang on in.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.
    No need to guess how the Tories will try to discredit the result of the May elections...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    HYUFD said:
    Yep. Socialism is now legal. Where's Jeremy when you need him?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,890
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    If the Gov't wants schools to open, and stay open they should bump teachers to the same priority as healthcare workers, as I believe Israel is doing. This isn't that hard.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    It's worse than the last week of term, and that was an omnishambles. I'd be astonished if it wasn't Williamson. He is incredibly stupid, and it appears no-one is in charge at No.10 either.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Barring some truly unexpected event the SNP will win an outright majority in Holyrood, backed for the independence issue by a decent sized bloc of Greens. The pro-independence parties will be dominant at Holyrood and have a clear mandate for an independence referendum that on current opinion polling they will win comfortably.

    Boris Johnson appears to have decided his political interest is served by irredentism. It plays to his base, who are English Nationalists; he embarrasses Starmer by lumping him in with the SNP and it avoids him going into the history books as the prime minister, Lord North style, who lost Scotland.

    I can't stress this enough, Johnson also totally undermines his Scottish Conservative colleagues. English nationalism has a very limited market in Scotland. Douglas Ross and his colleagues are trying to promote the benefits of Union while Johnson is making it very clear that Scotland's interest is irrelevant. Unionists, who are already a minority, are split. There is no way Labour will join in Johnson's project.

    Of course they won't as without the support of Scottish, specifically SNP MPs, there is zero chance of a Starmer premiership in 2024.

    If Scotland left the UK there would almost certainly be another Tory majority in England and Wales at the next general election. Boris does not need Scotland for a Tory majority but cannot afford to be seen to have lost the Union if he is to stay PM, Starmer cannot afford to lose Scotland to have a chance of becoming PM but has more chance of winning indyref2 than Boris.

    Hence any indyref2, whatever the outcome of Holyrood 2021, would only be allowed by Westminster under a Starmer premiership
    What is the basis of your claim that the Tories will "almost certainly" win a majority in England and Wales at the next election (due in 2024)? Seems an awful long way away to have that degree of certainty over the outcome.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Funny that, Spain has kept voting rights for locals for Brits as long as it stays reciprocal.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Morning all and thank you David H for interesting Header. Strikes me I haven’t posted any serious predictions myself for 21 and so to quickly put that right -

    Dems do the double in Georgia and gain control of the senate.
    Joe Biden becomes a popular uniting figure.
    Donald Trump leaves the White House in a horizontal position and thereafter fades away.
    So does Brexit. It still features but without the heat.
    Near term Covid meets the worse case scenario. The NHS collapses in many places.
    Nevertheless by August it’s all over and we’re back to normal.
    Except we’re not because the public finances are utterly wrecked.
    This problem will not be faced up to by the Johnson government.
    Neither will the need for Sindy2.
    But in better news for Scotland, Andy Murray has a big Wimbledon.

    5 correct 5 wrong.
    You don't think Andy is going to win Wimbo?
    No, he should switch to doubles where he could be a force for another 10 years.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Barring some truly unexpected event the SNP will win an outright majority in Holyrood, backed for the independence issue by a decent sized bloc of Greens. The pro-independence parties will be dominant at Holyrood and have a clear mandate for an independence referendum that on current opinion polling they will win comfortably.

    Boris Johnson appears to have decided his political interest is served by irredentism. It plays to his base, who are English Nationalists; he embarrasses Starmer by lumping him in with the SNP and it avoids him going into the history books as the prime minister, Lord North style, who lost Scotland.

    I can't stress this enough, Johnson also totally undermines his Scottish Conservative colleagues. English nationalism has a very limited market in Scotland. Douglas Ross and his colleagues are trying to promote the benefits of Union while Johnson is making it very clear that Scotland's interest is irrelevant. Unionists, who are already a minority, are split. There is no way Labour will join in Johnson's project.

    Of course they won't as without the support of Scottish, specifically SNP MPs, there is zero chance of a Starmer premiership in 2024.

    If Scotland left the UK there would almost certainly be another Tory majority in England and Wales at the next general election. Boris does not need Scotland for a Tory majority but cannot afford to be seen to have lost the Union if he is to stay PM, Starmer cannot afford to lose Scotland to have a chance of becoming PM but has more chance of winning indyref2 than Boris.

    Hence any indyref2, whatever the outcome of Holyrood 2021, would only be allowed by Westminster under a Starmer premiership
    What is the basis of your claim that the Tories will "almost certainly" win a majority in England and Wales at the next election (due in 2024)? Seems an awful long way away to have that degree of certainty over the outcome.
    Labour were almost certainly a spent force after losing in 1992...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.
    No need to guess how the Tories will try to discredit the result of the May elections...
    #stopthesteal (tory edition)
  • kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting set of predictions from David H, hopefully by Spring the vaccinations will be well under way.

    In May I expect the Tories to make some losses in the county elections to Labour where they had an 11% lead in 2017 but do better in the district elections which were neck and neck in 2016. In London Labour will do well but less so in Wales.

    In Scotland if Sturgeon fails to win an SNP majority and can only continue with the support of the Greens that would be a major blow to her authority and lead to calls for a leadership challenge from the SNP as well as enabling Boris to easily dismiss any calls for indyref2.

    Biden I think will be a pragmatic President and probably the most centrist incoming President since Bush Snr, that will lead to some murmurings on the left of the Democrats but relative calm for the rest of the country with Trump murmuring resistance from Florida on occasion. I think the likeliest outcome on Tuesday in Georgia is Warnock wins and Purdue wins, both were ahead in the first round and the Senate ends up 51 - 49 with Collins or Romney having the casting vote again reflecting a shift in the US to the centre isolating the Trumpite right and the AOC left.

    In Germany if Merz or Soder end up the CDU/CSU chancellor candidate for September's Federal elections that would see a clear shift to the right for the Union from Merkel

    Don't the Scottish Greens support independence?
    They do, so if Boris tried to prevent a referendum on the grounds of the SNP alone not having a majority it would look like trying to wiggle out on a technicality. The right thing would be to allow a referendum in 2022, but for Westminster to insist on a sensible voting franchise (i.e. not allowing children or EU citizens to vote, some provision for Scots elsewhere in the UK/abroad). With a Brexit deal now done, I don't think a 'Yes' vote is as inevitable as the SNP clearly do.
    Well, the SNP would, publicly anyway, wouldn't they? And why should 'children'...... 16 year olds not vote? It's their future.
    16 and 17 year olds should not be allowed to vote because we've quite sensibly judged they're not mature enough to. Why not extend this logic to enfranchising 4 year olds? And it's lots of people's future, including everyone else in the UK, but I wouldn't suggest I should get a vote.
    You blathering idiot , you are talking about England. In civilised countries , ie like Scotland , they can vote in elections.
    When Scotland is part of a UK election, no they can't and rightly so. It's a hallmark of corrupt, lazy politicians to adjust the voting franchise purely to suit their own short-term political objectives.
    Are you suggesting that the whole UK should vote on it?
    No, but as this is a UK constitutional matter, not a council by-election in Dundee, I think it's reasonable that the franchise should be based on the UK one.
    LOL, you cannot hide your stupidity and ignorance. 16 and 17 years olds have the vote in Scottish elections you dummy. If you are going to make a fool of yourself , try at least to read up on your topic before putting your foot in your mouth.
    I'm well aware of that, but as a legal secession referendum can only happen with the approval of the Westminster government, it seems quite appropriate to use the UK franchise, which has remained unchanged for decades, rather than one the SNP have recently invented for their own advantage.

    On a related note, I haven't been on here much lately and I'd forgotten how rude and unpleasant you can be. Take a chill pill.
    Please keep posting, don`t take offence, it`s only Malcy and he has a special licence.
    Like Gordon Ramsey.
    Have they ever been seen in the same room?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    If they are resident in the country and meet requirements for the Scottish electoral voting system then why would they not be allowed to vote.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.

    Edit: I hope we can all agree that it's ok for 18 year olds to vote!
    They are not voting as EU citizens however, they are voting under the Sctottish Electoral \System as residents of Scotland meeting the criteria to have the franchise.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Pulpstar said:

    Who on earth is floating these hare brained plans ?
    Panicking politicians.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Anyone with permanent residence in Scotland is now in the franchise. Presumably your objection to EU citizens also applies to Commonwealth and Irish citizens who have always had the right to vote in UK elections?
    Next they will be saying English people should not be allowed to vote in Scotland.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    "EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable" - it would also be illegal wouldn`t it?
  • DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.
    No need to guess how the Tories will try to discredit the result of the May elections...
    Will twitter be flagging @Douglas4Moray's tweets with warnings that the claims are disputed and might be misleading?
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    Hate to say it, but this might be what the government was hoping for.

    Schools closed, but not the government's fault. In fact, another front in the culture war.

    Appalling government, but potentially excellent populist politics.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited January 2021

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.
    No need to guess how the Tories will try to discredit the result of the May elections...
    Will twitter be flagging @Douglas4Moray's tweets with warnings that the claims are disputed and might be misleading?
    'Scottish Parliament

    There are 129 Members of the Scottish Parliament (MSPs).

    To vote in the Scottish Parliament elections you must:

    be registered to vote at an address in Scotland
    be 16 or over on the day of the election (‘polling day’)
    not be legally excluded from voting

    You must also be one of the following:

    a British citizen
    an Irish citizen
    a citizen of another country living in Scotland who has permission to enter or stay in the UK, or who does not need permission'

    https://www.gov.uk/elections-in-the-uk/scottish-parliament

    Edit: sorry this should have been a reply to Stocky.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    BBC says that EuroMillions: Jackpot of more than £39m has been won by UK ticket-holder.

    Will we still be able to buy EuroMillions tickets?

    I got a lucky dip win
    One Sunday morning, many years ago, I woke up to nine first dividends on the pools. Unfortunately there had been around 25 score draws on the usual Saturday slate of 46 matches so every bloke and his whippet had the same. Still hurts to think about it.
    There was a time in the late ‘90s that numbers 1 and 7 both got drawn in the national lottery. 120ish people got all six numbers that night, good for something like £16k each of a £2m jackpot.

    No doubt many of them called their boss when slightly the worse for wear that night, saying exactly where they could stuff their job, before the computer did its thing and they realised they weren’t quite as rich as they thought they were!

    (I’ll try and look up the exact details, I was working part time in a convenience store at the time).
    Edit: possibly this one:
    Back on Saturday 14th January 1995, a staggering 133 players shared a Lotto jackpot of £16.2 million after matching the numbers 7, 17, 23, 32, 38 and 42. Why did so many ticket holders pick the same, apparently-random numbers? It was discovered that they were all printed in the central columns of the playslip, and so each winner had to be content with receiving a £122,510 payout.
    https://www.national-lottery.com/news/what-are-the-most-unusual-lotto-results-ever

    Not a bad win, but not tell-your-boss-to-f***-his-job money either.
    wonder how many had to eat humble pie next day at work
  • malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.

    Edit: I hope we can all agree that it's ok for 18 year olds to vote!
    They are not voting as EU citizens however, they are voting under the Sctottish Electoral \System as residents of Scotland meeting the criteria to have the franchise.
    Yep, that's more accurate.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Scott_xP said:
    Something is wrong here. The Vaccine should go to who paid most money for it: we paid twice as much money for the same thing, getting our hands on it first is the whole point of paying twice as much isn’t it?

    Paid twice as much money to get first in the queue, something is wrong here.

    It’s time for our government to show some backbone and stand up for us for once. We need to use our military on this one if necessary.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54rhgUrzOXM
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    Hate to say it, but this might be what the government was hoping for.

    Schools closed, but not the government's fault. In fact, another front in the culture war.

    Appalling government, but potentially excellent populist politics.
    But it is their fault. The NAHT would not be preparing to sue on the off-chance. They clearly believe they’ve found a breach of the law.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited January 2021
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    I think I've spotted a clear and determined MO for this government in much of their pandemic response -

    1. Focus on something that is inevitable for next week.
    2. Rather than plan for it, say it's not necessary.
    3. Allow 72 hours of debate and confusion.
    4. Announce that it's now urgent (!) and is happening tomorrow.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    What has HYFUD been up to?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9106113/Illegal-New-Years-Eve-party-100-held-4m-home-Englands-worst-Covid-hotspot.html

    Police break up 100-strong illegal New Year's Eve rave featuring a fire dancer at £4m home in Epping Forest - England's worst Covid hotspot
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    Hate to say it, but this might be what the government was hoping for.

    Schools closed, but not the government's fault. In fact, another front in the culture war.

    Appalling government, but potentially excellent populist politics.
    But it is their fault. The NAHT would not be preparing to sue on the off-chance. They clearly believe they’ve found a breach of the law.
    If my emails from parents (we're in a Tory constituency) are anything to go by, it isn't 'excellent populist politics'.

    It might impress Toby Young and Allison Pearson, but the public aren't fooled by this.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Who on earth is floating these hare brained plans ?
    Panicking politicians.
    It is not as absurd as people are suggesting. We are due to start a trial doing it, so some people will be mixing vaccines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/08/covid-mixed-vaccine-trial-likely-to-begin-in-uk-next-month
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Morning all and thank you David H for interesting Header. Strikes me I haven’t posted any serious predictions myself for 21 and so to quickly put that right -

    Dems do the double in Georgia and gain control of the senate.
    Joe Biden becomes a popular uniting figure.
    Donald Trump leaves the White House in a horizontal position and thereafter fades away.
    So does Brexit. It still features but without the heat.
    Near term Covid meets the worse case scenario. The NHS collapses in many places.
    Nevertheless by August it’s all over and we’re back to normal.
    Except we’re not because the public finances are utterly wrecked.
    This problem will not be faced up to by the Johnson government.
    Neither will the need for Sindy2.
    But in better news for Scotland, Andy Murray has a big Wimbledon.

    5 correct 5 wrong.
    You don't think Andy is going to win Wimbo?
    No, he should switch to doubles where he could be a force for another 10 years.
    Agree, I don't see him winning a Major again. He would be superb for doubles.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Williamson is an armchair general. He's fighting an imaginary battle with the dangerous Commie *checks notes* Primary school teachers.

    I assume he has naked pictures of literally everyone in the Cabinet
    Excuse me while I throw up.
    Liz Truss? Or am I showing my age?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2021
    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Anyone with permanent residence in Scotland is now in the franchise. Presumably your objection to EU citizens also applies to Commonwealth and Irish citizens who have always had the right to vote in UK elections?
    Next they will be saying English people should not be allowed to vote in Scotland.
    I am in favour of extending the franchise as broadly as makes sense. Specifically it seems wrong that EU citizens resident in the country for years and happily participating in the democratic process upto now should have their rights terminated.

    For the referendum, I would also be in favour of including those with a significant connection with Scotland, eg born in Scotland, if it can be managed. After all, these people can claim Scottish nationality if the vote goes that way.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    It's worse than the last week of term, and that was an omnishambles. I'd be astonished if it wasn't Williamson. He is incredibly stupid, and it appears no-one is in charge at No.10 either.
    You are all making far too much of attacking government on schools. Government hides its motive behind the education loss of the poor kids, but truth is we all must appreciate like the government does schools open = child care = people going to work. Unlike the government you are ignoring the important child care angle here, aren’t you?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    edited January 2021
    What are the chances of a Trump supporter being a massive racist AND a non mask wearer? Must be pretty low right?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1345326131038347265
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    "EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable" - it would also be illegal wouldn`t it?
    Not in Scottish elections, only needs to be resident in Scotland and living legally in the country and 16 years old minimum
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Pulpstar said:

    Stocky said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you @david_herdson.

    I think you are altogether too optimistic about the vaccination programme.

    Anyway, yesterday marked the day when I officially became Chair of Trustees of a London primary school. The one I went to in fact. It taught me a lot - not just what you'd expect from a good school but what to aspire to if you want to try to be a good person. So it feels right to be giving something back.

    And this morning I have urgent calls with the Headmistress re the plans for online learning.

    The mess Gavin Williamson is making of everything does not give me confidence in the vaccination programme or anything else this government touches, frankly. I am not a scientist but the idea of mixing and matching vaccines sounds peculiar. What is the scientific basis for it? What are the risks?

    Regarding mixing and matching the vaccines, I imagine that the main driver is to vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible - no matter which particular vaccine. Better to go for quick, maximum possible coverage over the supply issues which would come with backing one manufacturer only.
    I think it's fine to mix and match amongst the population, but if someone is on Pfizer, they need to stick to pfizer second dose - not have a second Oxford or Moderna dose.
    Do we know that to be the case? I'm not saying it isn't the case, but my understanding of the vaccines is that they are all safe ways of getting a bit of non-replicatable Covid in to the system to stimulate an immune response. I don't see why a dose of one would not boost the response from another.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    Hate to say it, but this might be what the government was hoping for.

    Schools closed, but not the government's fault. In fact, another front in the culture war.

    Appalling government, but potentially excellent populist politics.
    But it is their fault. The NAHT would not be preparing to sue on the off-chance. They clearly believe they’ve found a breach of the law.
    So the headline writers get to blame the judges as well? Even better.

    I'm not saying any of this is a remotely acceptable way to run a country, or that anyone with a shred of conscience would operate this way.

    But if you start from the premises that only the slogan matters and responsibility is for little people, the internal logic hangs together. And although that state won't last forever, it will last longer than you or I expect or would like.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    FF43 said:

    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Anyone with permanent residence in Scotland is now in the franchise. Presumably your objection to EU citizens also applies to Commonwealth and Irish citizens who have always had the right to vote in UK elections?
    Next they will be saying English people should not be allowed to vote in Scotland.
    I am in favour of extending the franchise as broadly as makes sense. Specifically it seems wrong that EU citizens resident in the country for years and happily participating in the democratic process upto now should have their rights terminated.

    For the referendum, I would also be in favour of including those with a significant connection with Scotland, eg born in Scotland, if it can be managed. After all, these people can claim Scottish nationality if the vote goes that way.
    Yes but you cannot have someone not resident getting a vote even though it would most likely benefit YES.
  • malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.

    Edit: I hope we can all agree that it's ok for 18 year olds to vote!
    They are not voting as EU citizens however, they are voting under the Sctottish Electoral \System as residents of Scotland meeting the criteria to have the franchise.
    Surely it is for the Scottish Government to decide what the franchise is and take whatever political fallout that might come from it. Personally - to take the only example I have concerns about - I think giving 16 year olds the vote is a bloody stupid idea but if that is what the Scots decide is their legal position then it is for them to decide that for elections that they call not Westminster.

    I also think that in England for local elections we should modify the franchise so it is based on legal residency not on nationality. If you are a Dutchman (like the godfather of my kids) and have lived here for 30 years then you have a right to take part in deciding who runs the local services. Same if you are an American, Japanese or Nigerian.

    General Elections and referendums I would prefer to see kept for UK nationals only. If you want to take part in deciding the future of the country then become a citizen.

    But as I say I don't think Westminster have the right to impose that view on Scotland when dealing with purely Scottish matters.
  • What has HYFUD been up to?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9106113/Illegal-New-Years-Eve-party-100-held-4m-home-Englands-worst-Covid-hotspot.html

    Police break up 100-strong illegal New Year's Eve rave featuring a fire dancer at £4m home in Epping Forest - England's worst Covid hotspot

    This is HYUFD's rave gear apparently


  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Let’s try and keep away from Scottish referendum debate it’s been pleasant not having it so far today.
    Police turning back day trippers to Snowdonia from all over the country, what is wrong with people do they not take in any news? The UK is on the verge of a health crisis which could hit anyone and still they ignore it. The bottom line I suppose is that there just aren’t enough police to do the job properly and the need to ‘police by consent’.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    DavidL said:

    Essexit said:

    malcolmg/Theuniondivvie - Cameron was complacent in 2014 and allowed the SNP to implement a non-standard electoral franchise which was in *their* favour. That mistake should not be repeated.

    It's not non-standard in Scotland, it's just 'the electoral franchise'.
    I am quite relaxed about 16-18 year olds but EU citizens' voting rights ended yesterday and keeping them on the franchise for this would be unacceptable.
    Afaik EU citizens will be voting in the May election.
    No need to guess how the Tories will try to discredit the result of the May elections...
    Will twitter be flagging @Douglas4Moray's tweets with warnings that the claims are disputed and might be misleading?
    As I understand it, can EU citizens not apply to be UK citizens? In which case it would be extremely unjust to prevent them from voting, even if confirmation is pending.

    Of course, if they are not UK citizens, and have no intention of becoming so, that's something entirely different.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Pulpstar said:

    Stocky said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you @david_herdson.

    I think you are altogether too optimistic about the vaccination programme.

    Anyway, yesterday marked the day when I officially became Chair of Trustees of a London primary school. The one I went to in fact. It taught me a lot - not just what you'd expect from a good school but what to aspire to if you want to try to be a good person. So it feels right to be giving something back.

    And this morning I have urgent calls with the Headmistress re the plans for online learning.

    The mess Gavin Williamson is making of everything does not give me confidence in the vaccination programme or anything else this government touches, frankly. I am not a scientist but the idea of mixing and matching vaccines sounds peculiar. What is the scientific basis for it? What are the risks?

    Regarding mixing and matching the vaccines, I imagine that the main driver is to vaccinate as many as possible as quickly as possible - no matter which particular vaccine. Better to go for quick, maximum possible coverage over the supply issues which would come with backing one manufacturer only.
    I think it's fine to mix and match amongst the population, but if someone is on Pfizer, they need to stick to pfizer second dose - not have a second Oxford or Moderna dose.
    This virologist implies it's OK (subject to confirmation) to prime with Pfizer type vaccines and boost with others, eg AstraZeneca. But maybe not the other way round?

    https://twitter.com/VirusesImmunity/status/1345086699521646592

    My impression is that due to poorly run trials, we don't have a good handle on the efficacy of the AstraZeneca vaccine, but as long as it's safe, we will jab it in and work out the efficacy later. GIven we are up against it, this makes some sense.
  • gealbhan said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The only question now is whether Williamson's inevitable announcement that schools aren't going back on Monday will come today or on Sunday. To save face, he ought to announce it now to maintain the facade that the decision is still in his hands.

    "The National Education Union (NEU), which represents the majority of teachers and more than 450,000 school staff in the UK, will inform its members that it is not safe for them to return to school until mid-January at the earliest.
    It expects most of its members will follow its advice, forcing most schools to switch to online learning for the majority of their pupils. The union will provide its members with a template letter to send to their headteachers, explaining that they are refusing to go into work because their workplace is unsafe, a right enshrined in law by section 44 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Staff should still be prepared to work remotely, the union says, and should volunteer to look after vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers on school premises."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/government-faces-major-revolt-on-schools-reopening-in-england-over-covid-fears

    You know what’s infuriating?

    None of this was necessary if the government had been a little more thoughtful and flexible.

    They were instead like Arthur Scargill on speed. With worse manners.
    Yes. And it turns out that having previously threatened legal action to enforce their will, their own hand is now being forced in the face of legal action by the teaching unions.

    It's a nice touch that the NEU are using a Conservative act of parliament to assert the right not to work in an unsafe environment.
    GMB (one of the support staff unions) now invoking section 44 as well. Gavin might be surrounded by 5pm. Tricky to open schools if you don't have any staff.
    To put it mildly, the whole thing is utter fucking chaos.
    It's worse than the last week of term, and that was an omnishambles. I'd be astonished if it wasn't Williamson. He is incredibly stupid, and it appears no-one is in charge at No.10 either.
    You are all making far too much of attacking government on schools. Government hides its motive behind the education loss of the poor kids, but truth is we all must appreciate like the government does schools open = child care = people going to work. Unlike the government you are ignoring the important child care angle here, aren’t you?
    Not at all. Schools have always been and will remain open for kids of essential workers. And child care (by which in this case we mean letting parents dump their kids on someone else to look after) has to be secondary to preventing the spreading of the virus.

    If employers won't or can't allow people to work from home then that work will have to be suspended. This is basically what the furlough system is on place for.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    nichomar said:

    Let’s try and keep away from Scottish referendum debate it’s been pleasant not having it so far today.
    Police turning back day trippers to Snowdonia from all over the country, what is wrong with people do they not take in any news? The UK is on the verge of a health crisis which could hit anyone and still they ignore it. The bottom line I suppose is that there just aren’t enough police to do the job properly and the need to ‘police by consent’.

    The same people who will drive from Surrey to Snowdonia, and then complain that it’s far too busy there and people should stay home. What they mean, of course, is that everyone*else* should stay home!
This discussion has been closed.