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Some Predictions For 2021 – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Out of curiosity, do they expect this to have no effect on the runoffs in Georgia?

    Or are they just so dumb they haven’t thought of those?

    https://twitter.com/SamWangPhD/status/1343002800654053376
    Option B it is...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Since the presidential election 100,000+ have died of Covid in the USA.

    Unemployment cheques run out for people today, eviction ban ends and there is a government shutdown on Monday.

    The GOP are going for a burn it all down approach.

    Out of curiosity, do they expect this to have no effect on the runoffs in Georgia?

    Or are they just so dumb they haven’t thought of those?
    Due to the joy of American political media reporting this is being presented as "Both sides" in the press.

    "The Dems" or "Congress" have failed to get a relief bill through apparently. Not "McConnell refuses to bring relief bill to a vote" or "GOP vote against relief bill in the House"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:



    The peer-reviewed publication in the Lancet on 8 December is here:
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

    That has 29 against 40 for the asymptomatic cases (Table 2).

    The Lancet was heavily involved in the MMR scandal, and kept promoting the pseudoscience around it long past the time when it had been conclusively demonstrated to be fraudulent. That did a huge amount of wholly unnecessary damage to vaccines in general. Indeed, it’s where much of the resistance to Covid vaccines originates. They have to the best of my knowledge neither apologised for nor withdrawn their statements on it.

    I am therefore quite comfortable in saying they are not reputable. And while I like the figures they publish here, and cited them myself a few weeks back with a rider that they couldn’t be trusted given the source, I am not going to bet the house on anything published in them.

    So again - has it been published by a reputable journal?
    I think you need to distinguish between the journal and those who wrote the paper.
    While it may be arguable that the Lancet is no longer a publication which has the reputation to add weight to a dubious paper, solid science is not tarnished simply by appearing in it.
    That is not the case. There are journals, and publishing houses for the matter of that, where appearing in them is taken as a sign nowhere better would accept it, for whatever reason. It therefore does damage the credibility of the authors and their work.

    It shouldn’t, in an ideal world. But the first thing any PhD student looking to publish is taught is to pick their publishers carefully.
    And writing off a study simply because it appears in the Lancet is completely irrational.
  • Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1343120787855781888

    The dismantling of the union as a result of Brexit is going to be a key talking point this year whatever else happens

    When Scotland rejoins the EU, will they surrender the 25% more additional fish achieve by Brexit?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited December 2020
    Midlander said:

    The UK was frozen out of influence by the creation of the Eurozone. Decision making started with the Franco-German summit before every EU meeting, then moved to the Eurozone bloc (where France and Germany already dominated), then the rest of the EU were left to feebly rubber stamp or to protest and show their impotence. The UK usually chose the former but under Cameron we tried the latter and suddenly it was obvious the Emperor had no clothes. Brexit was inevitable by that point.
    Brexit was a tiny minority interest in public surveys during that time. It was the migration crisis in the summer of 2015, that changed things.
  • Good morning, Miss JGP.

    Mr. Midlander, far from inevitable. If Remain hadn't run such a terrible campaign, or the EU had taken seriously the prospect we might vote to Leave, we could very easily have voted to stay in.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Midlander said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/soniasodha/status/1343120787855781888

    The dismantling of the union as a result of Brexit is going to be a key talking point this year whatever else happens

    When Scotland rejoins the EU, will they surrender the 25% more additional fish achieve by Brexit?
    I believe Sturgeon was having a go yesterday at brexit "selling out the scottish fishing industry". Interesting irony.
  • A great predictions piece to kick things off. A few people have already made many of my points:
    1. Violence in America. They are not going to transition to the Biden Presidency without a whole load of blood.
    2. The Brexit Betrayal. Never mind "remoaners" it will be leavers making the loudest noises. They were sold a magic bullet and as we go through the actual treaty and start implementing the thing it will make Osborne's Omnishambles budget look like a flawless piece of economics
    3. The Ulster conundrum. On one hand Norniron has just become hot property, a one foot in each camp territory that should be able to do very very well in this decade. The conundrum is how the DUP handle this divergence. Its economically and socially Good for their electorate. But is clearly no longer a part of the main UK which they have always said is Bad for their electorate...
    4. The Scottish Play. Combine the effects of points 2 and 3 and the push for independence will be something that even the truculent form of General HYUFD cannot stop. The SNP will win the 2021 election and win big - hell I might vote for them just to kick this off. At which point the fun begins...
    5. I fear for party politics in England. The Brexit Betrayal will lead to people looking for other solutions. The Good News for both batshit elements of Labour and Tory Parties is that they will get an audience. The bad news for everyone else is that it will make our increasingly polarised politics increasingly polarised.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited December 2020
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Chris said:

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    That's a bit misleading.

    Moderna & Pfizer/BioNTech are 95% effective in preventing any signs of CV19 infection. AZN is about 66% effective by that measure.

    HOWEVER, AZN also reduces the chance of really serious CV19 by around 95%, and probably reduces your infectiousness quite significantly.

    If everyone has the AZN vaccine, it reduces CV19 to flu season..
    Perhaps bad flu season, but flu season nonetheless.

    But, still, I'd probably want to most vulnerable - or those on the front line - the get the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines.
    I thought Pfizer didn’t test for asymptomatic COVID and so can’t say?
    The AZN figures are for symptomatic CV19 only. They haven't released data on asymptomatic infections.
    I think it’s the other way around. AZN’s data on asymptomatic carriers is why their headline figure initially looked low, and it is the other vaccines that may not have this data.
    The Lancet publication on the Oxford vaccine is on symptomatic cases (131). I haven't yet seen the asymptomatic data published.

    https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2020/azd1222-oxford-phase-iii-trials-interim-analysis-results-published-in-the-lancet.html
    This early Bloomberg release appears to rely on some data on aymptomatic

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-08/astra-shot-better-at-stopping-covid-than-slowing-transmission
    Yes, that is new to me, but the asymptomatic data is rather disappointing in it, showing 27 asymptomatic cases in the vaccine group and 40 in the placebo arm, of 6 000 participants. Such a modest reduction in asymptomatic cases suggests that those vaccinated with the Oxford* vaccine are still possible vectors of transmission.

    *quite likely with other vaccines too.
    I don't know whether I'm missing something here, but the Lancet publication several weeks ago certainly included data on asymptomatic cases.
    Has the data actually been published in a reputable journal?

    If not, I think we should suspend judgement for now.
    The peer-reviewed publication in the Lancet on 8 December is here:
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

    That has 29 against 40 for the asymptomatic cases (Table 2).
    Yes. It seems that the asymptomatic swabbing was done only in the cov002 study, and Scotland not included , so 29 asymptomatic cases in the vaccinated arm, 40 in the placebo.

    That arm is a bit of a mess for data, but had 86 symptomatic cases, 18 in active arm, 68 in the placebo.

    I think therefore to sum asymptomatic and symptomatic cases 37 in the active arm and 108 in the placebo arm.

    One thing to note is that these were outcomes a minimum of 14 days after the second dose, which was a median of 84 days after the first dose in cov002. I am not sure why the booster dose was delayed so long in the majority of subjects. It seems as if the trial protocol changed a number of times mid trial, hence the messy data.

    There was a fairly narrow definition of symptomatic in cov002, wider in other arms, but also meant that patients with myalgia, runny nose etc would be counted as "asymptomatic" in cov002.

    Thats enough data wrangling before coffee!

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Some good evidence for the durability of immune response to Covid.

    Rapid generation of durable B cell memory to SARS-CoV-2 spike and nucleocapsid proteins in COVID-19 and convalescence
    https://immunology.sciencemag.org/content/immunology/5/54/eabf8891.full.pdf
    Lasting immunity following SARS-CoV-2 infection is questioned because serum antibodies decline in convalescence. However, functional immunity is mediated by long-lived memory T and B (Bmem) cells. Therefore, we generated fluorescently-labeled tetramers of the spike receptor binding domain (RBD) and nucleocapsid protein (NCP) to determine the longevity and immunophenotype of SARS-CoV-2-specific Bmem cells in COVID-19 patients. A total of 36 blood samples were obtained from 25 COVID-19 patients between 4 and 242 days post-symptom onset including 11 paired samples. While serum IgG to RBD and NCP was identified in all patients, antibody levels began declining at 20 days post-symptom onset. RBD- and NCP-specific Bmem cells predominantly expressed IgM+ or IgG1+ and continued to rise until 150 days. RBD- specific IgG+ Bmem were predominantly CD27+, and numbers significantly correlated with circulating follicular helper T cell numbers. Thus, the SARS-CoV-2 antibody response contracts in convalescence with persistence of RBD- and NCP-specific Bmem cells. Flow cytometric detection of SARS-CoV-2-specific Bmem cells enables detection of long-term immune memory following infection or vaccination for COVID- 19....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited December 2020
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:



    The peer-reviewed publication in the Lancet on 8 December is here:
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

    That has 29 against 40 for the asymptomatic cases (Table 2).

    The Lancet was heavily involved in the MMR scandal, and kept promoting the pseudoscience around it long past the time when it had been conclusively demonstrated to be fraudulent. That did a huge amount of wholly unnecessary damage to vaccines in general. Indeed, it’s where much of the resistance to Covid vaccines originates. They have to the best of my knowledge neither apologised for nor withdrawn their statements on it.

    I am therefore quite comfortable in saying they are not reputable. And while I like the figures they publish here, and cited them myself a few weeks back with a rider that they couldn’t be trusted given the source, I am not going to bet the house on anything published in them.

    So again - has it been published by a reputable journal?
    I think you need to distinguish between the journal and those who wrote the paper.
    While it may be arguable that the Lancet is no longer a publication which has the reputation to add weight to a dubious paper, solid science is not tarnished simply by appearing in it.
    That is not the case. There are journals, and publishing houses for the matter of that, where appearing in them is taken as a sign nowhere better would accept it, for whatever reason. It therefore does damage the credibility of the authors and their work.

    It shouldn’t, in an ideal world. But the first thing any PhD student looking to publish is taught is to pick their publishers carefully.
    And writing off a study simply because it appears in the Lancet is completely irrational.
    I haven’t ’written it off.’ As I pointed out, I have cited it myself in discussions on the AZN vaccine. But because it comes in a journal that has been caught wilfully promoting false studies, no matter who its authors are or whatever its scientific basis is, it has to come with a health warning.

    I have asked if it has been published elsewhere, precisely because the Lancet has a major credibility gap due to its past performance, and confirmation that publications who do not have that credibility gap also take it seriously would help considerably.

    Or to put it another way, if a true story appeared on the Skwawkbox, or in the Daily Mail, I would want to investigate or see publications that are rigorous (e.g, the FT) republish it before accepting it as accurate. The Lancet is no different.
  • ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    I said back around March that he triple lock would be a casualty of Covid. The Govt. has perfect cover - the manifesto commitment is (along with everything else) subject to the very small-print caveat "subject always to the country not being buggered by unforeseen factors such as tsunami, meteor strike or plague...."

    The raft of Covid-fighting measures taken, impacting liberty and the nation's finances, were to protect those of pension age. Sorry pensioners, but you are going to have to make your contribution to righting the nation's finances too. It can't be left to your grand-kids and their kids alone to climb out the black hole. That would not be fair.

    And that will leave to some grumbles, from those who always grumble. But no great wailing of "broken promises" from the wider electorate. Becasue they will it is equitable. I really think Boris can sell that. (Although he may leave the job to Rishi....!)
    The political classes obsess about the triple lock. The leg most often touted for removal is the minimum 2.5 per cent, which is unlikely to make any difference for the next couple of years if @rcs1000 is right about inflation. Inflation and perhaps even wage increases (depending how they are measured) are likely to be the driver of pension increases but these are unlikely to be delinked.

    Why should the Chancellor take the political hit of breaking the triple lock if reducing it to a double or even single lock will make no saving?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:



    The peer-reviewed publication in the Lancet on 8 December is here:
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

    That has 29 against 40 for the asymptomatic cases (Table 2).

    The Lancet was heavily involved in the MMR scandal, and kept promoting the pseudoscience around it long past the time when it had been conclusively demonstrated to be fraudulent. That did a huge amount of wholly unnecessary damage to vaccines in general. Indeed, it’s where much of the resistance to Covid vaccines originates. They have to the best of my knowledge neither apologised for nor withdrawn their statements on it.

    I am therefore quite comfortable in saying they are not reputable. And while I like the figures they publish here, and cited them myself a few weeks back with a rider that they couldn’t be trusted given the source, I am not going to bet the house on anything published in them.

    So again - has it been published by a reputable journal?
    I think you need to distinguish between the journal and those who wrote the paper.
    While it may be arguable that the Lancet is no longer a publication which has the reputation to add weight to a dubious paper, solid science is not tarnished simply by appearing in it.
    That is not the case. There are journals, and publishing houses for the matter of that, where appearing in them is taken as a sign nowhere better would accept it, for whatever reason. It therefore does damage the credibility of the authors and their work.

    It shouldn’t, in an ideal world. But the first thing any PhD student looking to publish is taught is to pick their publishers carefully.
    And writing off a study simply because it appears in the Lancet is completely irrational.
    I haven’t ’written it off.’ As I pointed out, I have cited it myself in discussions on the AZN vaccine. But because it comes in a journal that has been caught wilfully promoting false studies, no matter who its authors are or whatever its scientific basis is, it has to come with a health warning.

    I have asked if it has been published elsewhere, precisely because the Lancet has a major credibility gap due to its past performance, and confirmation that publications who do not have that credibility gap also take it seriously would help considerably.

    Or to put it another way, if a true story appeared on the Skwawkbox, or in the Daily Mail, I would want to investigate or see publications that are rigorous (e.g, the FT) republish it before accepting it as accurate. The Lancet is no different.
    Or you could just read the paper.
  • Midlander said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Blairite bashes Brexit deal? If only it had been as good a deal as when Tony Blair gave away half our rebate for nothing in return. This is a classic of the Remainer genre - the deal is bad because it doesn't have us as integrated with Brussels as Remainers want it.
    Both extremes are still throwing rocks at each other. Not sure how long you've been on here but despite my postings recently I voted to leave the EU. However, it is a peculiar act of English madness to argue that we have just enabled Free Trade and removed Red Tape whilst leaving a huge Free Trade area and voluntarily crippling ourselves with Red Tape.

    Leaving the EU? Not a problem. Leaving the EEA and CU - neither of which are the EU - a problem.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Poor Mike

    He had a “Brexit: one year on” thread scheduled and now you’ve put the kibosh on it
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Well you don’t seem to be able to leave it alone this morning.
    And given the whole 4 year review thing, the debate ain't going anywhere for long. Is it a one-off, or will there be a review pencilled in for every 4 years? If the second, heaven help us all...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    ydoethur said:

    Chris said:



    The peer-reviewed publication in the Lancet on 8 December is here:
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

    That has 29 against 40 for the asymptomatic cases (Table 2).

    The Lancet was heavily involved in the MMR scandal, and kept promoting the pseudoscience around it long past the time when it had been conclusively demonstrated to be fraudulent. That did a huge amount of wholly unnecessary damage to vaccines in general. Indeed, it’s where much of the resistance to Covid vaccines originates. They have to the best of my knowledge neither apologised for nor withdrawn their statements on it.

    I am therefore quite comfortable in saying they are not reputable. And while I like the figures they publish here, and cited them myself a few weeks back with a rider that they couldn’t be trusted given the source, I am not going to bet the house on anything published in them.

    So again - has it been published by a reputable journal?
    I think you need to distinguish between the journal and those who wrote the paper.
    While it may be arguable that the Lancet is no longer a publication which has the reputation to add weight to a dubious paper, solid science is not tarnished simply by appearing in it.
    That is not the case. There are journals, and publishing houses for the matter of that, where appearing in them is taken as a sign nowhere better would accept it, for whatever reason. It therefore does damage the credibility of the authors and their work.

    It shouldn’t, in an ideal world. But the first thing any PhD student looking to publish is taught is to pick their publishers carefully.
    And writing off a study simply because it appears in the Lancet is completely irrational.
    I haven’t ’written it off.’ As I pointed out, I have cited it myself in discussions on the AZN vaccine. But because it comes in a journal that has been caught wilfully promoting false studies, no matter who its authors are or whatever its scientific basis is, it has to come with a health warning.

    I have asked if it has been published elsewhere, precisely because the Lancet has a major credibility gap due to its past performance, and confirmation that publications who do not have that credibility gap also take it seriously would help considerably.

    Or to put it another way, if a true story appeared on the Skwawkbox, or in the Daily Mail, I would want to investigate or see publications that are rigorous (e.g, the FT) republish it before accepting it as accurate. The Lancet is no different.
    Or you could just read the paper.
    The point being that this will be one of the most widely scrutinised pieces of work published this year, which makes the journal it appears in more or less irrelevant.
  • States of Guernsey (parliament) debating the UK-EC TCA - "Much better than we could have expected to achieve" - Chief Minister recommending agreement.

    Guernsey (still 6 cases) also updated COVID data today - what's this with all the UK jurisdictions (ex-England) taking a few days off in the middle of a fast moving pandemic?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Let's hope so

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    I said back around March that he triple lock would be a casualty of Covid. The Govt. has perfect cover - the manifesto commitment is (along with everything else) subject to the very small-print caveat "subject always to the country not being buggered by unforeseen factors such as tsunami, meteor strike or plague...."

    The raft of Covid-fighting measures taken, impacting liberty and the nation's finances, were to protect those of pension age. Sorry pensioners, but you are going to have to make your contribution to righting the nation's finances too. It can't be left to your grand-kids and their kids alone to climb out the black hole. That would not be fair.

    And that will leave to some grumbles, from those who always grumble. But no great wailing of "broken promises" from the wider electorate. Becasue they will it is equitable. I really think Boris can sell that. (Although he may leave the job to Rishi....!)
    The political classes obsess about the triple lock. The leg most often touted for removal is the minimum 2.5 per cent, which is unlikely to make any difference for the next couple of years if @rcs1000 is right about inflation. Inflation and perhaps even wage increases (depending how they are measured) are likely to be the driver of pension increases but these are unlikely to be delinked.

    Why should the Chancellor take the political hit of breaking the triple lock if reducing it to a double or even single lock will make no saving?
    Obviously I've got a dog in the fight when it comes to the triple lock, but it seems to me that while not having it would would be OK for me, and those like me, with decent pensions from our employment days and accommodation which is safe, secure and paid for, there are others in our age group to whom that doesn't apply.
    Now the problem for the Chancellor is selling its removal to both those of my age group who read the Mail and those who read the Mirror, particular when you recall that we've had our funds 'reduced' by having to pay for TV licences.
    I'm not sure how many pensioners don't pay income tax, but it does seem to me that a small step might be to tax the fuel benefits and the £10 Christmas bonus
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Charles said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Poor Mike

    He had a “Brexit: one year on” thread scheduled and now you’ve put the kibosh on it
    That would be the end of next month.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,686
    Given the childish kicking and screaming over the TV license and bus passes for the most selfish generation in history I highly doubt this government will ever do anything to remove the triple lock.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    There’s going to be a whole raft of things that get screwed by growth and inflation being at 5-6%, as we may well see in 2021. As well as pensions, there’s an awful lot of public sector pay awards and welfare benefits that are index-linked in one way or another.

    There will probably have to be primary legislation to defer what would be seen as excessive rises in spending, as a result of a temporary spike in growth and inflation caused by coming out of a sharp recession.

    Personally I think they have to go with option A, and eat the unpopularity and rebellion in the short term. There’s really no room for increases in public spending until the finances are back under control, with the exception of infrastructure investment that creates jobs.
    I think they should change the “triple lock” and replace it with the “pensions income guarantee”

    Guaranteed as a fixed % of the median or mean wage with a catch up period if necessary (don’t know what the stats are)

    My understanding was the purpose of the triple lock was that pensioners had fallen a long way back in purchasing power and it was designed to fix that problem.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Tres said:

    Given the childish kicking and screaming over the TV license and bus passes for the most selfish generation in history I highly doubt this government will ever do anything to remove the triple lock.

    Is there going to be a charge for bus passes? Admittedly I haven't used public transport for about 12 months, but until Covid-19 I normally did, and if there was a small charge, remitted for those on low incomes I wouldn't object too much.
  • Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Since the presidential election 100,000+ have died of Covid in the USA.

    Unemployment cheques run out for people today, eviction ban ends and there is a government shutdown on Monday.

    The GOP are going for a burn it all down approach.

    Out of curiosity, do they expect this to have no effect on the runoffs in Georgia?

    Or are they just so dumb they haven’t thought of those?
    I think this is a Trump vs GOP struggle.

    Rightly or wrongly the GOP are saying the country can’t afford the $2,000 a head stimulus. Trump is being shamelessly populist. It’s easy to promise more money
  • ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    I said back around March that he triple lock would be a casualty of Covid. The Govt. has perfect cover - the manifesto commitment is (along with everything else) subject to the very small-print caveat "subject always to the country not being buggered by unforeseen factors such as tsunami, meteor strike or plague...."

    The raft of Covid-fighting measures taken, impacting liberty and the nation's finances, were to protect those of pension age. Sorry pensioners, but you are going to have to make your contribution to righting the nation's finances too. It can't be left to your grand-kids and their kids alone to climb out the black hole. That would not be fair.

    And that will leave to some grumbles, from those who always grumble. But no great wailing of "broken promises" from the wider electorate. Becasue they will it is equitable. I really think Boris can sell that. (Although he may leave the job to Rishi....!)
    The political classes obsess about the triple lock. The leg most often touted for removal is the minimum 2.5 per cent, which is unlikely to make any difference for the next couple of years if @rcs1000 is right about inflation. Inflation and perhaps even wage increases (depending how they are measured) are likely to be the driver of pension increases but these are unlikely to be delinked.

    Why should the Chancellor take the political hit of breaking the triple lock if reducing it to a double or even single lock will make no saving?
    Because it is mathematically illiterate to give an ever increasing share of the pie to one group. Eventually, their share of the pie becomes bigger than the whole pie.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    States of Guernsey (parliament) debating the UK-EC TCA - "Much better than we could have expected to achieve" - Chief Minister recommending agreement.

    Guernsey (still 6 cases) also updated COVID data today - what's this with all the UK jurisdictions (ex-England) taking a few days off in the middle of a fast moving pandemic?

    I didn't think the Channel Islands were in the EU! Apart from fisheries and finance, what's their interest?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Global Britain...

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1343134798303342592

    BTW, I think this is the problem for touring artists. They can get a visa, but the trucks full of gear will need customs paperwork for every item on board
  • ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    I said back around March that he triple lock would be a casualty of Covid. The Govt. has perfect cover - the manifesto commitment is (along with everything else) subject to the very small-print caveat "subject always to the country not being buggered by unforeseen factors such as tsunami, meteor strike or plague...."

    The raft of Covid-fighting measures taken, impacting liberty and the nation's finances, were to protect those of pension age. Sorry pensioners, but you are going to have to make your contribution to righting the nation's finances too. It can't be left to your grand-kids and their kids alone to climb out the black hole. That would not be fair.

    And that will leave to some grumbles, from those who always grumble. But no great wailing of "broken promises" from the wider electorate. Becasue they will it is equitable. I really think Boris can sell that. (Although he may leave the job to Rishi....!)
    The political classes obsess about the triple lock. The leg most often touted for removal is the minimum 2.5 per cent, which is unlikely to make any difference for the next couple of years if @rcs1000 is right about inflation. Inflation and perhaps even wage increases (depending how they are measured) are likely to be the driver of pension increases but these are unlikely to be delinked.

    Why should the Chancellor take the political hit of breaking the triple lock if reducing it to a double or even single lock will make no saving?
    Obviously I've got a dog in the fight when it comes to the triple lock, but it seems to me that while not having it would would be OK for me, and those like me, with decent pensions from our employment days and accommodation which is safe, secure and paid for, there are others in our age group to whom that doesn't apply.
    Now the problem for the Chancellor is selling its removal to both those of my age group who read the Mail and those who read the Mirror, particular when you recall that we've had our funds 'reduced' by having to pay for TV licences.
    I'm not sure how many pensioners don't pay income tax, but it does seem to me that a small step might be to tax the fuel benefits and the £10 Christmas bonus
    There are also others in different age groups also struggling. People would consider it bizarre if we said some 33 year olds are struggling therefore all 33 year olds need a triple lock on their taxes to ensure they increase slower than everyone elses.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    There’s going to be a whole raft of things that get screwed by growth and inflation being at 5-6%, as we may well see in 2021. As well as pensions, there’s an awful lot of public sector pay awards and welfare benefits that are index-linked in one way or another.

    There will probably have to be primary legislation to defer what would be seen as excessive rises in spending, as a result of a temporary spike in growth and inflation caused by coming out of a sharp recession.

    Personally I think they have to go with option A, and eat the unpopularity and rebellion in the short term. There’s really no room for increases in public spending until the finances are back under control, with the exception of infrastructure investment that creates jobs.
    I think they should change the “triple lock” and replace it with the “pensions income guarantee”

    Guaranteed as a fixed % of the median or mean wage with a catch up period if necessary (don’t know what the stats are)

    My understanding was the purpose of the triple lock was that pensioners had fallen a long way back in purchasing power and it was designed to fix that problem.
    Would that mean that, if this year median or mean wages dropped 15%, pensions would do likewise?

    The issue is when, as rarely happens, we get a massive fall followed by a massive rise. Either we keep pensions constant across the two years, or we drop them then raise them. Keeping them steady this year, followed by a massive rise next year is unsustainable.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
    One might wonder what would have been the effect of catching Philby before he got involved with Albania.
    And din't Blake estimate that his actions had resulted in 6-700 arrests in the DDR?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    A great predictions piece to kick things off. A few people have already made many of my points:
    1. Violence in America. They are not going to transition to the Biden Presidency without a whole load of blood.
    2. The Brexit Betrayal. Never mind "remoaners" it will be leavers making the loudest noises. They were sold a magic bullet and as we go through the actual treaty and start implementing the thing it will make Osborne's Omnishambles budget look like a flawless piece of economics
    3. The Ulster conundrum. On one hand Norniron has just become hot property, a one foot in each camp territory that should be able to do very very well in this decade. The conundrum is how the DUP handle this divergence. Its economically and socially Good for their electorate. But is clearly no longer a part of the main UK which they have always said is Bad for their electorate...
    4. The Scottish Play. Combine the effects of points 2 and 3 and the push for independence will be something that even the truculent form of General HYUFD cannot stop. The SNP will win the 2021 election and win big - hell I might vote for them just to kick this off. At which point the fun begins...
    5. I fear for party politics in England. The Brexit Betrayal will lead to people looking for other solutions. The Good News for both batshit elements of Labour and Tory Parties is that they will get an audience. The bad news for everyone else is that it will make our increasingly polarised politics increasingly polarised.

    I think @HYUFD isn’t truc[k]ulent so much as tankulent...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Scott_xP said:

    Global Britain...

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1343134798303342592

    BTW, I think this is the problem for touring artists. They can get a visa, but the trucks full of gear will need customs paperwork for every item on board

    A family member is involved, at a senior level, with Formula 1 management. I suspect the experience of this year, where much of the race electronics has been managed remotely, will ultimately be to their financial advantage.
  • I'm not yet sure that January 2021 will pass without some serious problems, even widespread violence, in the USA.

    Just like any other month in the USA then.
  • Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    One of the ironies of the Cambridge spy ring, including Philby, is they were passing so much information to Moscow that eventually the KGB smelt a rat and suspected they were being controlled by MI5. Klaus Fuchs, the atom spy, was more obviously effective in accelerating development of the Soviet bomb but even his information was received sceptically, and they'd have got there on their own eventually anyway, such is science. There were so many spies here and in America, it must have been hard for the Russians to keep up. This is one reason the Profumo Affair was so damaging -- it was yet another security lapse following a series of spy scandals.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    edited December 2020
    Predictions for the year ahead are made very difficult by the unpredictability of Covid. I suspect we will see some very high death figures before the end of February, before the vaccination programme kicks in. We could be in for a torrid time.

    And Covid also makes the impact of Brexit less easy to gauge. The problem for the government is that any downsides of Brexit are likely to be felt before any upsides are recognised - surely any benefits will be more medium to long term? But Covid may conveniently disguise any downsides of Brexit for the next six months or so.

    I also suspect what the next year holds will be influenced by any Cabinet reshuffle. Now Brexit is done and dusted, will the PM seek to strengthen his Cabinet, or will he continue to value loyalty and subservience over ability?
  • Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
    One might wonder what would have been the effect of catching Philby before he got involved with Albania.
    And din't Blake estimate that his actions had resulted in 6-700 arrests in the DDR?
    Albania was Guy Burgess, wasn't it? (The betrayal of Albanian partisans being dropped into that country to be immediately killed.)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    Let's hope so

    Um, I think as the sun rises the tiers get worse.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    There’s going to be a whole raft of things that get screwed by growth and inflation being at 5-6%, as we may well see in 2021. As well as pensions, there’s an awful lot of public sector pay awards and welfare benefits that are index-linked in one way or another.

    There will probably have to be primary legislation to defer what would be seen as excessive rises in spending, as a result of a temporary spike in growth and inflation caused by coming out of a sharp recession.

    Personally I think they have to go with option A, and eat the unpopularity and rebellion in the short term. There’s really no room for increases in public spending until the finances are back under control, with the exception of infrastructure investment that creates jobs.
    I think they should change the “triple lock” and replace it with the “pensions income guarantee”

    Guaranteed as a fixed % of the median or mean wage with a catch up period if necessary (don’t know what the stats are)

    My understanding was the purpose of the triple lock was that pensioners had fallen a long way back in purchasing power and it was designed to fix that problem.
    Would that mean that, if this year median or mean wages dropped 15%, pensions would do likewise?

    The issue is when, as rarely happens, we get a massive fall followed by a massive rise. Either we keep pensions constant across the two years, or we drop them then raise them. Keeping them steady this year, followed by a massive rise next year is unsustainable.
    Yes.

    When was the last time we had a “massive fall followed by a massive rise”?

    And why should pensioners be uniquely protected when the economy is probably in a mess, unemployment is soaring and benefits being cut (as would probably be the case when you have that kind of swing in incomes)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    nichomar said:

    The use of the vaccine technology in cancer Treatment is well underway, looking effective but by god it’s a bastard for wiping you out as they determine required dosages, cycle frequency and length. It’s currently expensive but no evidence of rationing in Spain. I’ve been given till the 14/1 as a break as it’s achieved it’s objective of stopping growth and spread. Where next? No idea but six months ago there were no ‘other’ options apart from palliative care and now there appears to be. Lucky to be part of the trial although I may be reading to much into what’s happening.

    That is excellent news, I am really pleased for you.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Scott_xP said:

    Global Britain...

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1343134798303342592

    BTW, I think this is the problem for touring artists. They can get a visa, but the trucks full of gear will need customs paperwork for every item on board

    A family member is involved, at a senior level, with Formula 1 management. I suspect the experience of this year, where much of the race electronics has been managed remotely, will ultimately be to their financial advantage.
    F1, and the F1 teams, are masters of logistics, they can get anything delivered anywhere in the world within a day, albeit at a cost.

    Temporary imports for competition can be a pain for lower level motorsport though, hopefully a sensible attitude will prevail that keeps the paperwork to a minimum for those competing internationally in any sport.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    One of the ironies of the Cambridge spy ring, including Philby, is they were passing so much information to Moscow that eventually the KGB smelt a rat and suspected they were being controlled by MI5. Klaus Fuchs, the atom spy, was more obviously effective in accelerating development of the Soviet bomb but even his information was received sceptically, and they'd have got there on their own eventually anyway, such is science. There were so many spies here and in America, it must have been hard for the Russians to keep up. This is one reason the Profumo Affair was so damaging -- it was yet another security lapse following a series of spy scandals.
    Surely the recipients of spies information should be cautious; the suppliers of such information, in nationals of the country being spied on, must surely be duplicitous by nature.
  • States of Guernsey (parliament) debating the UK-EC TCA - "Much better than we could have expected to achieve" - Chief Minister recommending agreement.

    Guernsey (still 6 cases) also updated COVID data today - what's this with all the UK jurisdictions (ex-England) taking a few days off in the middle of a fast moving pandemic?

    I didn't think the Channel Islands were in the EU! Apart from fisheries and finance, what's their interest?
    They weren't - but were covered by Protocol 3 of the UK accession treaty. What the TCA does is preserve things like locally agreed fishing arrangements and access of Guernsey fishing boats to French ports to offload their catch. Predictions of the UK "selling out the Channel Islands" on fisheries were wrong. Also there won't be any "displacement" of French fishing vessels from anywhere else, as any vessels fishing in Bailiwick waters has to have had a track record of fishing 2017-19. On Finance Guernsey always was a "third country" so no change there. The only "additional" ask is cooperation on VAT & Tax fraud which the Channel Islands were doing anyway. Interestingly Guernsey adopted a more flexible immigration policy than the UK (easy to do because people come on licences) - to enable easier access for staff in hospitality, agriculture and social care.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Global Britain...

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1343134798303342592

    BTW, I think this is the problem for touring artists. They can get a visa, but the trucks full of gear will need customs paperwork for every item on board

    From what I have read there are three related but separate issues:
    1. The paperwork problem. A serious lack of qualified people to create said forms, a lack of inspectors for the forms, a lack of facilities. I know this keeps being dismissed with "they only inspect 1-2% of loads" but its the paperwork that will cause the delays. As well as the considerable cost which will be passed onto the consumer
    2. The very limited way that hauliers of whatever size will be allowed to operate in the EU and vice versa. The easy ability to pick up loads on the return leg is gone and with it the easy ability to make cross border traffic economically viable
    3. The entertainment industry was mysteriously missed out of the treaty, which will make it difficult and expensive for touring bands and orchestras. Considering the vast size of this industry compared to fishing you'd think the government might have prioritised it higher

    Its the Omnishambles Treaty. The more the detail comes out the worse it will get. Won't be "remoaners" screaming betrayal, it will be leavers. This isn't the Brexit we voted for...
  • ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    I said back around March that he triple lock would be a casualty of Covid. The Govt. has perfect cover - the manifesto commitment is (along with everything else) subject to the very small-print caveat "subject always to the country not being buggered by unforeseen factors such as tsunami, meteor strike or plague...."

    The raft of Covid-fighting measures taken, impacting liberty and the nation's finances, were to protect those of pension age. Sorry pensioners, but you are going to have to make your contribution to righting the nation's finances too. It can't be left to your grand-kids and their kids alone to climb out the black hole. That would not be fair.

    And that will leave to some grumbles, from those who always grumble. But no great wailing of "broken promises" from the wider electorate. Becasue they will it is equitable. I really think Boris can sell that. (Although he may leave the job to Rishi....!)
    The political classes obsess about the triple lock. The leg most often touted for removal is the minimum 2.5 per cent, which is unlikely to make any difference for the next couple of years if @rcs1000 is right about inflation. Inflation and perhaps even wage increases (depending how they are measured) are likely to be the driver of pension increases but these are unlikely to be delinked.

    Why should the Chancellor take the political hit of breaking the triple lock if reducing it to a double or even single lock will make no saving?
    Because it is mathematically illiterate to give an ever increasing share of the pie to one group. Eventually, their share of the pie becomes bigger than the whole pie.
    So what? As I said, why take the political hit of abandoning the triple lock if it will not produce any savings? It is of no matter whether it should have been introduced in the first place or will need to be reviewed ten years down the line. In 2021 the triple lock is a red herring (assuming @rcs1000 is correct).

    If the Chancellor does act on pensions, more useful targets might be higher rate tax relief on contributions, salary sacrifice schemes and 25% tax-free withdrawals.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
    One might wonder what would have been the effect of catching Philby before he got involved with Albania.
    And din't Blake estimate that his actions had resulted in 6-700 arrests in the DDR?
    Albania was Guy Burgess, wasn't it? (The betrayal of Albanian partisans being dropped into that country to be immediately killed.)
    Checked with Wikipedia...... they say Philby. Wasn't Burgess in the US most of the time?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316

    Nigelb said:

    .

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Well you don’t seem to be able to leave it alone this morning.
    And given the whole 4 year review thing, the debate ain't going anywhere for long. Is it a one-off, or will there be a review pencilled in for every 4 years? If the second, heaven help us all...
    Brexit is a process where we will drift off gradually from the EU
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Brexit is a process where we will drift off gradually from the EU

    More likely we gradually reintegrate
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    States of Guernsey (parliament) debating the UK-EC TCA - "Much better than we could have expected to achieve" - Chief Minister recommending agreement.

    Guernsey (still 6 cases) also updated COVID data today - what's this with all the UK jurisdictions (ex-England) taking a few days off in the middle of a fast moving pandemic?

    I didn't think the Channel Islands were in the EU! Apart from fisheries and finance, what's their interest?
    They weren't - but were covered by Protocol 3 of the UK accession treaty. What the TCA does is preserve things like locally agreed fishing arrangements and access of Guernsey fishing boats to French ports to offload their catch. Predictions of the UK "selling out the Channel Islands" on fisheries were wrong. Also there won't be any "displacement" of French fishing vessels from anywhere else, as any vessels fishing in Bailiwick waters has to have had a track record of fishing 2017-19. On Finance Guernsey always was a "third country" so no change there. The only "additional" ask is cooperation on VAT & Tax fraud which the Channel Islands were doing anyway. Interestingly Guernsey adopted a more flexible immigration policy than the UK (easy to do because people come on licences) - to enable easier access for staff in hospitality, agriculture and social care.
    Thanks.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Since the presidential election 100,000+ have died of Covid in the USA.

    Unemployment cheques run out for people today, eviction ban ends and there is a government shutdown on Monday.

    The GOP are going for a burn it all down approach.

    Out of curiosity, do they expect this to have no effect on the runoffs in Georgia?

    Or are they just so dumb they haven’t thought of those?
    I think this is a Trump vs GOP struggle.

    Rightly or wrongly the GOP are saying the country can’t afford the $2,000 a head stimulus. Trump is being shamelessly populist. It’s easy to promise more money
    America is wide open for the left now. There is civil war in the republican party, as the header points out. When Loeffler and Purdue are heavily defeated, as they surely will be, well, all bets are off. California is so successful, apparently, they are turning the rest of America into it.

    I suggest bitcoin. Since I started suggesting it, the price has risen approximately USD5000 a bitcoin. Do not bet the bank, use it as a hedge.

    Wealth is flowing out of money into crypto, gold, or any other tradeable, ownable real asset.
    This is a big story for 2021, and we are at the start of it.

    In truth, its a a massive vote of no confidence in the debt laden, lockdown smashed, sclerotic, dogma infused economies of most of the west.

    You won't hear about it in most of the mainstream media, as it runs contrary to the thrust of much of the narrative. But its happening.

    One day the west's governments are going to start wondering where all the money they planned to take from voters to pay for their gargantuan policy mistakes went.
  • Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
    One might wonder what would have been the effect of catching Philby before he got involved with Albania.
    And din't Blake estimate that his actions had resulted in 6-700 arrests in the DDR?
    Albania was Guy Burgess, wasn't it? (The betrayal of Albanian partisans being dropped into that country to be immediately killed.)
    Checked with Wikipedia...... they say Philby. Wasn't Burgess in the US most of the time?
    Philby was already in the US working for MI6 at the British Embassy when Burgess was sent to join him.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    Scott_xP said:

    Brexit is a process where we will drift off gradually from the EU

    More likely we gradually reintegrate
    It's a choice people have.

    Maybe this time the politicians will take the voters with them, but theyre not exactly renowned for their plain dealing.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Scott_xP said:
    The EU is a depreciating asset in trade terms. Even if the EU were to slap tariffs on one of its best customers, its an ever less significant slice of global trade.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    Maybe this time the politicians will take the voters with them, but theyre not exactly renowned for their plain dealing.

    BoZo is currently the best example that telling lies wins votes
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    Scott_xP said:

    Maybe this time the politicians will take the voters with them, but theyre not exactly renowned for their plain dealing.

    BoZo is currently the best example that telling lies wins votes
    Well he comes from the same stable as Cameron and Osborne so what do you expect ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
    One might wonder what would have been the effect of catching Philby before he got involved with Albania.
    And din't Blake estimate that his actions had resulted in 6-700 arrests in the DDR?
    Albania was Guy Burgess, wasn't it? (The betrayal of Albanian partisans being dropped into that country to be immediately killed.)
    Checked with Wikipedia...... they say Philby. Wasn't Burgess in the US most of the time?
    Philby was already in the US working for MI6 at the British Embassy when Burgess was sent to join him.
    IIRC Philby went on to the Levant. Was in Beirut for a while.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    States of Guernsey (parliament) debating the UK-EC TCA - "Much better than we could have expected to achieve" - Chief Minister recommending agreement.

    Guernsey (still 6 cases) also updated COVID data today - what's this with all the UK jurisdictions (ex-England) taking a few days off in the middle of a fast moving pandemic?

    I didn't think the Channel Islands were in the EU! Apart from fisheries and finance, what's their interest?
    They weren't - but were covered by Protocol 3 of the UK accession treaty. What the TCA does is preserve things like locally agreed fishing arrangements and access of Guernsey fishing boats to French ports to offload their catch. Predictions of the UK "selling out the Channel Islands" on fisheries were wrong. Also there won't be any "displacement" of French fishing vessels from anywhere else, as any vessels fishing in Bailiwick waters has to have had a track record of fishing 2017-19. On Finance Guernsey always was a "third country" so no change there. The only "additional" ask is cooperation on VAT & Tax fraud which the Channel Islands were doing anyway. Interestingly Guernsey adopted a more flexible immigration policy than the UK (easy to do because people come on licences) - to enable easier access for staff in hospitality, agriculture and social care.
    Thanks.
    As long as said Fisherman do not invade Guernsey:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/french-fishermen-strike-peace-deal-guernsey-men-suits-and-ties-repudiate-agreement-made-after-flotilla-normandy-sails-island-harbour-talks-1500747.html

    Or kidnap any customs boats:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Cherbourg_incident

    :smile:
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    Scott_xP said:
    The EU is a depreciating asset in trade terms. Even if the EU were to slap tariffs on one of its best customers, its an ever less significant slice of global trade.

    So is the UK which is far less significant than the EU
  • If twatter had existed twenty years ago we would have been inundated with people claiming that not joining the Euro was a disaster and that the UK would soon be forced to.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    My prediction

    By 31 December 2021 PB remainers will still be banging on about Brexit

    Pretty nailed on.

    Meanwhile PB Leavers will go very quiet on sunlit uplands...🌄
    No, they will be quoting 2021 GDP growth to proclaim Brexit a success, ignoring the more obvious impact of covid in 2020 in that growth number.
    One key issue next year is going to be what happens with the triple lock.

    Do the Tories ditch it, break their manifesto promise and piss off a large chunk of their voters?

    Or do they keep it, ensuring that the worst financial hit of the pandemic goes on the young?

    Incidentally, I expect them to choose option b, but I don’t think it’s quite as straightforward a tradeoff as they believe. How many parents will be in the unfortunate @Cyclefree’s position and seeking to support children going through financial shit due to Covid? I’m guessing it will be a lot. And they won’t be happy about that...
    There’s going to be a whole raft of things that get screwed by growth and inflation being at 5-6%, as we may well see in 2021. As well as pensions, there’s an awful lot of public sector pay awards and welfare benefits that are index-linked in one way or another.

    There will probably have to be primary legislation to defer what would be seen as excessive rises in spending, as a result of a temporary spike in growth and inflation caused by coming out of a sharp recession.

    Personally I think they have to go with option A, and eat the unpopularity and rebellion in the short term. There’s really no room for increases in public spending until the finances are back under control, with the exception of infrastructure investment that creates jobs.
    I think they should change the “triple lock” and replace it with the “pensions income guarantee”

    Guaranteed as a fixed % of the median or mean wage with a catch up period if necessary (don’t know what the stats are)

    My understanding was the purpose of the triple lock was that pensioners had fallen a long way back in purchasing power and it was designed to fix that problem.
    Would that mean that, if this year median or mean wages dropped 15%, pensions would do likewise?

    The issue is when, as rarely happens, we get a massive fall followed by a massive rise. Either we keep pensions constant across the two years, or we drop them then raise them. Keeping them steady this year, followed by a massive rise next year is unsustainable.
    Yes.

    When was the last time we had a “massive fall followed by a massive rise”?

    And why should pensioners be uniquely protected when the economy is probably in a mess, unemployment is soaring and benefits being cut (as would probably be the case when you have that kind of swing in incomes)
    Oh, it’s been a while, probably WWII or even the 1920s. Rather you than me, trying to sell a huge cut in pensions followed by a huge rise though. A money-terms freeze would be a much easier sell politically.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Maybe this time the politicians will take the voters with them, but theyre not exactly renowned for their plain dealing.

    BoZo is currently the best example that telling lies wins votes
    Well he comes from the same stable as Cameron and Osborne so what do you expect ?
    I think what really upsets some people is that Boris has, yet again, proved he is more talented and popular and even hard working than Cameron and Osborne.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Scott_xP said:

    It's so odd, because one thing that the Tories used to really understand, and where they had a good case to make, was how this kind of annoying paperwork - "red tape" - has a deadening effect on economic activity. And yet they are presiding over the biggest explosion in costly paperwork in decades, all in the name of "free trade". It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

    It becomes painfully obvious that Brexit was never about free trade, but Xenophobia.

    Adding Red tape for immigrants was always the point.
    For skilled immigrants, like my wife, the red tape just got a whole load easier.

    Treating everyone the same, on their own merits, no matter where in the world they come from, is the exact opposite of xenophobia.
  • Mr. xP, I'm sure deriding those who disagree with you as xenophobes will prove very persuasive.

    In the same way I could change your mind if I started from the premise (which I do not) that you're a traitor.
  • Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
    One might wonder what would have been the effect of catching Philby before he got involved with Albania.
    And din't Blake estimate that his actions had resulted in 6-700 arrests in the DDR?
    Albania was Guy Burgess, wasn't it? (The betrayal of Albanian partisans being dropped into that country to be immediately killed.)
    Checked with Wikipedia...... they say Philby. Wasn't Burgess in the US most of the time?
    Philby was already in the US working for MI6 at the British Embassy when Burgess was sent to join him.
    IIRC Philby went on to the Levant. Was in Beirut for a while.
    Yes, after Philby was brought home from America because he was probably the third man, even though he did not confess, he was sacked but subsequently rehired by MI6 as their man in Beirut (no proof ... decent chap ... old school tie). Even when proof did emerge, MI6 (probably deliberately) allowed Philby to flee to the Soviet Union.

    But none of the Cambridge spies were received into the KGB and given the rank they'd assumed they'd earned. Only very late was Philby given any recognition, and that for propaganda purposes. Mclean got a job in publishing and Burgess never learned Russian and drank himself to death after subsisting on Fortnum and Mason hampers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895

    I'm sure deriding those who disagree with you as xenophobes will prove very persuasive.

    I am not

    I am deriding those who pretend Brexit wasn't a Xenophobic exercise
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited December 2020
    Interesting article Robert.

    The German Federal elections next September are certainly the main international elections next year and will be the first since 2002 in which Merkel will not be the CDU/CSU Chancellor candidate. In my view the CDU membership will pick Friedrich Merz to be their candidate who is more rightwing and conservative than Merkel is as well as being a multimillionaire corporate lawyer and former CDU/CSU Bundestag leader from 2000 to 2002.

    In terms of the election itself the CDU/CSU will almost certainly be the largest party in the Bundestag but I cannot see the Greens who are likely to overtake the SPD for second as Robert states supporting Merz for Chancellor and nor can I see a CDU led by Merz supporting the Greens leader, Annalena Baerbock for Chancellor either.

    So that leaves Baerbock to become Chancellor if the Greens, SPD and Linke combined seat total is more than that for the CDU/CSU and FDP combined or Merz to become Chancellor if the CDU/CSU and FDP combined total is more than the Greens, SPD and Linke combined. Assuming too of course Merz will follow Merkel's lead and still refuse to do any deal with the AfD
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
    One might wonder what would have been the effect of catching Philby before he got involved with Albania.
    And din't Blake estimate that his actions had resulted in 6-700 arrests in the DDR?
    Albania was Guy Burgess, wasn't it? (The betrayal of Albanian partisans being dropped into that country to be immediately killed.)
    Checked with Wikipedia...... they say Philby. Wasn't Burgess in the US most of the time?
    Philby was already in the US working for MI6 at the British Embassy when Burgess was sent to join him.
    IIRC Philby went on to the Levant. Was in Beirut for a while.
    Yes, after Philby was brought home from America because he was probably the third man, even though he did not confess, he was sacked but subsequently rehired by MI6 as their man in Beirut (no proof ... decent chap ... old school tie). Even when proof did emerge, MI6 (probably deliberately) allowed Philby to flee to the Soviet Union.

    But none of the Cambridge spies were received into the KGB and given the rank they'd assumed they'd earned. Only very late was Philby given any recognition, and that for propaganda purposes. Mclean got a job in publishing and Burgess never learned Russian and drank himself to death after subsisting on Fortnum and Mason hampers.
    Yes; Philby was probably the worst ever example of someone being appointed on the basis of the "old school tie".
    I read Ben Macintyre's book a while ago, but I seem to recall that MI5 were very suspicious of him, but MI6 were equally suspicious of MI5..... load of oiks.....so as you say.... decent chap, etc and he was trusted.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited December 2020
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's so odd, because one thing that the Tories used to really understand, and where they had a good case to make, was how this kind of annoying paperwork - "red tape" - has a deadening effect on economic activity. And yet they are presiding over the biggest explosion in costly paperwork in decades, all in the name of "free trade". It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

    It becomes painfully obvious that Brexit was never about free trade, but Xenophobia.

    Adding Red tape for immigrants was always the point.
    For skilled immigrants, like my wife, the red tape just got a whole load easier.

    Treating everyone the same, on their own merits, no matter where in the world they come from, is the exact opposite of xenophobia.
    That's far, far from what many Brexit voters want, however. Any significant uptick in non-EU migration after Brexit will cause a significant backlash for the Tories among many core Brexit voters, who were expecting the opposite.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    Morning all :)

    The first critical election of what's going to be a busy year is the CDU leadership election now scheduled for January 15-16.

    Robert's prediction on the next Bundestag election might well be dependent on the outcome of this contest. I don't know if anyone is running a book on this but I think Roettgen might be the one. He might be the compromise candidate between Laschet and Merz.

    The last German poll I saw had the Union ahead by 19 points so any new Spitzenkandidat is going to have some room for manoeuvre. The opposition parties are scrapping for the minor places - Greens second at the moment.

    It's extremely unlikely if not inconceivable a Government can be formed without the CDU/CSU leading and as Austria has shown, a coalition with the Greens isn't a nonstarter.
  • Scott_xP said:
    The EU is a depreciating asset in trade terms. Even if the EU were to slap tariffs on one of its best customers, its an ever less significant slice of global trade.

    This mantra of the EU being an ever smaller slice of the global economy and world trade is a good example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. Of course the EU is shrinking in relative terms, because of the growth of Asia and especially China. The same is true for us. But the EU will remain our biggest trading partner for decades to come, because of geography and the similarity of our economies.
    Making it harder to trade with the EU doesn't make it easier to trade with anyone else - quite the opposite in fact. The EU's single market facilitates efficient value chains - which is why Germany is so successful in exporting to the Far East from inside the EU. Having a large domestic market also helps firms to achieve critical mass and become successful exporters. The FTA will preserve some of these benefits, relative to a WTO Brexit, so we should be thankful for that at least.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article Robert.

    The German Federal elections next September are certainly the main international elections next year and will be the first since 2002 in which Merkel will not be the CDU/CSU Chancellor candidate. In my view the CDU membership will pick Friedrich Merz to be their candidate who is more rightwing and conservative than Merkel is as well as being a multimillionaire corporate lawyer and former CDU/CSU Bundestag leader from 2000 to 2002.

    In terms of the election itself the CDU/CSU will almost certainly be the largest party in the Bundestag but I cannot see the Greens who are likely to overtake the SPD for second as Robert states supporting Merz for Chancellor and nor can I see a CDU led by Merz supporting the Greens leader, Annalena Baerbock for Chancellor either.

    So that leaves Baerbock to become Chancellor if the Greens, SPD and Linke combined seat total is more than that for the CDU/CSU and FDP combined or Merz to become Chancellor if the CDU/CSU and FDP combined total is more than the Greens, SPD and Linke combined. Assuming too of course Merz will follow Merkel's lead and still refuse to do any deal with the AfD

    I'm going to disagree with you, my friend, not on the substantive but I think Rottgen might emerge as the compromise candidate. Laschet is the social conservative candidate but much more in Merkel's style than Merz.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    One of the ironies of the Cambridge spy ring, including Philby, is they were passing so much information to Moscow that eventually the KGB smelt a rat and suspected they were being controlled by MI5. Klaus Fuchs, the atom spy, was more obviously effective in accelerating development of the Soviet bomb but even his information was received sceptically, and they'd have got there on their own eventually anyway, such is science. There were so many spies here and in America, it must have been hard for the Russians to keep up. This is one reason the Profumo Affair was so damaging -- it was yet another security lapse following a series of spy scandals.
    What made the KGB so effective was that so many of their illegals were true believers in communism. Spymasters are rational, cautious, objective, people by nature, so they must have found it hard to believe their luck.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Freeports are being established next year, are they not. How about a major scandal of some sort in the first one, just before Christmas?
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's so odd, because one thing that the Tories used to really understand, and where they had a good case to make, was how this kind of annoying paperwork - "red tape" - has a deadening effect on economic activity. And yet they are presiding over the biggest explosion in costly paperwork in decades, all in the name of "free trade". It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

    It becomes painfully obvious that Brexit was never about free trade, but Xenophobia.

    Adding Red tape for immigrants was always the point.
    For skilled immigrants, like my wife, the red tape just got a whole load easier.

    Treating everyone the same, on their own merits, no matter where in the world they come from, is the exact opposite of xenophobia.
    That's far, far from what many Brexit voters want, however. Any significant uptick in non-EU migration after Brexit will cause a significant backlash for the Tories among many core Brexit voters, who were expecting the opposite.
    That depends on who the immigrants are.

    Few people disapprove of doctors from the third world.

    Many people disapprove of turnip pickers from the first world.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited December 2020
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    One of the ironies of the Cambridge spy ring, including Philby, is they were passing so much information to Moscow that eventually the KGB smelt a rat and suspected they were being controlled by MI5. Klaus Fuchs, the atom spy, was more obviously effective in accelerating development of the Soviet bomb but even his information was received sceptically, and they'd have got there on their own eventually anyway, such is science. There were so many spies here and in America, it must have been hard for the Russians to keep up. This is one reason the Profumo Affair was so damaging -- it was yet another security lapse following a series of spy scandals.
    What made the KGB so effective was that so many of their illegals were true believers in communism. Spymasters are rational, cautious, objective, people by nature, so they must have found it hard to believe their luck.
    I went on a British Council trip to Czechoslovakia in the late 80's. One of my hosts, during an evenings socialising told me that the love of a man for a woman was easy to understand, the love of a man for man harder, but the love of someone for communism impossible to understand.

    TBH I thought rather brave of her.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    A great predictions piece to kick things off. A few people have already made many of my points:
    1. Violence in America. They are not going to transition to the Biden Presidency without a whole load of blood.
    2. The Brexit Betrayal. Never mind "remoaners" it will be leavers making the loudest noises. They were sold a magic bullet and as we go through the actual treaty and start implementing the thing it will make Osborne's Omnishambles budget look like a flawless piece of economics
    3. The Ulster conundrum. On one hand Norniron has just become hot property, a one foot in each camp territory that should be able to do very very well in this decade. The conundrum is how the DUP handle this divergence. Its economically and socially Good for their electorate. But is clearly no longer a part of the main UK which they have always said is Bad for their electorate...
    4. The Scottish Play. Combine the effects of points 2 and 3 and the push for independence will be something that even the truculent form of General HYUFD cannot stop. The SNP will win the 2021 election and win big - hell I might vote for them just to kick this off. At which point the fun begins...
    5. I fear for party politics in England. The Brexit Betrayal will lead to people looking for other solutions. The Good News for both batshit elements of Labour and Tory Parties is that they will get an audience. The bad news for everyone else is that it will make our increasingly polarised politics increasingly polarised.

    4 Had we gone to No Deal then the SNP would likely have won big, now we have a Deal I think most Scots will shrug their shoulders and move on, the 55% who voted No in particular will not take kindly to Sturgeon still pushing for indyref2 and Unionist tactical voting could well deny her a majority. At which point she will face a May 2017 style humiliation and the SNP will collapse into civil war between the Salmond and Sturgeon factions.

    Even if the SNP did win a majority Boris would refuse a legal indyref2 and Unionists would boycott any illegal indyref making it irrelevant
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's so odd, because one thing that the Tories used to really understand, and where they had a good case to make, was how this kind of annoying paperwork - "red tape" - has a deadening effect on economic activity. And yet they are presiding over the biggest explosion in costly paperwork in decades, all in the name of "free trade". It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

    It becomes painfully obvious that Brexit was never about free trade, but Xenophobia.

    Adding Red tape for immigrants was always the point.
    For skilled immigrants, like my wife, the red tape just got a whole load easier.

    Treating everyone the same, on their own merits, no matter where in the world they come from, is the exact opposite of xenophobia.
    That's far, far from what many Brexit voters want, however. Any significant uptick in non-EU migration after Brexit will cause a significant backlash for the Tories among many core Brexit voters, who were expecting the opposite.
    That depends on who the immigrants are.

    Few people disapprove of doctors from the third world.

    Many people disapprove of turnip pickers from the first world.
    But they don't want to pick the turnips themselves!
  • Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    I thought the BBC obit somewhat skated over the hundreds of dead people he was directly responsible for...
    One might wonder what would have been the effect of catching Philby before he got involved with Albania.
    And din't Blake estimate that his actions had resulted in 6-700 arrests in the DDR?
    Albania was Guy Burgess, wasn't it? (The betrayal of Albanian partisans being dropped into that country to be immediately killed.)
    Checked with Wikipedia...... they say Philby. Wasn't Burgess in the US most of the time?
    Philby was already in the US working for MI6 at the British Embassy when Burgess was sent to join him.
    IIRC Philby went on to the Levant. Was in Beirut for a while.
    Yes, after Philby was brought home from America because he was probably the third man, even though he did not confess, he was sacked but subsequently rehired by MI6 as their man in Beirut (no proof ... decent chap ... old school tie). Even when proof did emerge, MI6 (probably deliberately) allowed Philby to flee to the Soviet Union.

    But none of the Cambridge spies were received into the KGB and given the rank they'd assumed they'd earned. Only very late was Philby given any recognition, and that for propaganda purposes. Mclean got a job in publishing and Burgess never learned Russian and drank himself to death after subsisting on Fortnum and Mason hampers.
    Yes; Philby was probably the worst ever example of someone being appointed on the basis of the "old school tie".
    I read Ben Macintyre's book a while ago, but I seem to recall that MI5 were very suspicious of him, but MI6 were equally suspicious of MI5..... load of oiks.....so as you say.... decent chap, etc and he was trusted.
    There is a lot of material on Youtube, both documentaries and (long) talks by the authors of various books and biographies.

    If you look at Mclean, Burgess, Philby and Blunt (in the order they were exposed) it is remarkable they survived more than five minutes in MI5 or 6. Two were gay at a time it was illegal and therefore a blackmail risk. They'd all been Communists. Three were alcoholics. It literally beggars belief.

    But then you look around now. The Conservative Party floats on a sea of roubles. The American President is suspiciously close to Russia. The KGB tried to recruit a recent Prime Minister between Eton and Oxford. The former chief SpAd spent two years in Russia. And it's not just the Russians. Look at Chinese involvement in networking, nuclear power stations and even Cabinet Zoom calls.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article Robert.

    The German Federal elections next September are certainly the main international elections next year and will be the first since 2002 in which Merkel will not be the CDU/CSU Chancellor candidate. In my view the CDU membership will pick Friedrich Merz to be their candidate who is more rightwing and conservative than Merkel is as well as being a multimillionaire corporate lawyer and former CDU/CSU Bundestag leader from 2000 to 2002.

    In terms of the election itself the CDU/CSU will almost certainly be the largest party in the Bundestag but I cannot see the Greens who are likely to overtake the SPD for second as Robert states supporting Merz for Chancellor and nor can I see a CDU led by Merz supporting the Greens leader, Annalena Baerbock for Chancellor either.

    So that leaves Baerbock to become Chancellor if the Greens, SPD and Linke combined seat total is more than that for the CDU/CSU and FDP combined or Merz to become Chancellor if the CDU/CSU and FDP combined total is more than the Greens, SPD and Linke combined. Assuming too of course Merz will follow Merkel's lead and still refuse to do any deal with the AfD

    I'm going to disagree with you, my friend, not on the substantive but I think Rottgen might emerge as the compromise candidate. Laschet is the social conservative candidate but much more in Merkel's style than Merz.
    I think Robert is overestimating the Greens and under-estimating the "new broom" effect of the new CDU leader (whoever that may be). The polls have been stable sgain for a long time, and I expect to see the CDU holding the chancellery, with whatever partners seem most useful. Even without a CDU+FDP lead over Greens+SPD+Left, I can't see the latter forming government, because without even the slightest cooperation between CDU and AfD, the centre-left would struggle to get anything through.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's so odd, because one thing that the Tories used to really understand, and where they had a good case to make, was how this kind of annoying paperwork - "red tape" - has a deadening effect on economic activity. And yet they are presiding over the biggest explosion in costly paperwork in decades, all in the name of "free trade". It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

    It becomes painfully obvious that Brexit was never about free trade, but Xenophobia.

    Adding Red tape for immigrants was always the point.
    For skilled immigrants, like my wife, the red tape just got a whole load easier.

    Treating everyone the same, on their own merits, no matter where in the world they come from, is the exact opposite of xenophobia.
    That's far, far from what many Brexit voters want, however. Any significant uptick in non-EU migration after Brexit will cause a significant backlash for the Tories among many core Brexit voters, who were expecting the opposite.
    I believe non-EU immigration has already risen. I'm not sure that is correct anyway - the issue has always been more about control rather than actual figures. I agree many Brexit voters want to see immigration fall - not sure that is likely to encourage them to vote for most of the other options available. The 2018 result certainly didn't. Either way calling people names has not been the most effective tactic of remainers in recent years. Not quite clear why they don't get this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alistair said:

    Since the presidential election 100,000+ have died of Covid in the USA.

    Unemployment cheques run out for people today, eviction ban ends and there is a government shutdown on Monday.

    The GOP are going for a burn it all down approach.

    Out of curiosity, do they expect this to have no effect on the runoffs in Georgia?

    Or are they just so dumb they haven’t thought of those?
    I think this is a Trump vs GOP struggle.

    Rightly or wrongly the GOP are saying the country can’t afford the $2,000 a head stimulus. Trump is being shamelessly populist. It’s easy to promise more money
    America is wide open for the left now. There is civil war in the republican party, as the header points out. When Loeffler and Purdue are heavily defeated, as they surely will be, well, all bets are off. California is so successful, apparently, they are turning the rest of America into it.

    I suggest bitcoin. Since I started suggesting it, the price has risen approximately USD5000 a bitcoin. Do not bet the bank, use it as a hedge.

    Wealth is flowing out of money into crypto, gold, or any other tradeable, ownable real asset.
    This is a big story for 2021, and we are at the start of it.

    In truth, its a a massive vote of no confidence in the debt laden, lockdown smashed, sclerotic, dogma infused economies of most of the west.

    You won't hear about it in most of the mainstream media, as it runs contrary to the thrust of much of the narrative. But its happening.

    One day the west's governments are going to start wondering where all the money they planned to take from voters to pay for their gargantuan policy mistakes went.
    No evidence Loeffler and Purdue will be heavily defeated on the latest poll, indeed Purdue at least is likely to be re elected

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1341913841920315392?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Scott_xP said:

    Global Britain...

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1343134798303342592

    BTW, I think this is the problem for touring artists. They can get a visa, but the trucks full of gear will need customs paperwork for every item on board

    It's so odd, because one thing that the Tories used to really understand, and where they had a good case to make, was how this kind of annoying paperwork - "red tape" - has a deadening effect on economic activity. And yet they are presiding over the biggest explosion in costly paperwork in decades, all in the name of "free trade". It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.
    But the paperwork is for exports so not things your average person will see day to day.

    Boris is promising to remove red tape so the Government will remove some governmental paperwork , point at it and say job done.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn’t realised George Blake was still alive until this week.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

    Less notorious, but possibly more damaging than Philby.

    One of the ironies of the Cambridge spy ring, including Philby, is they were passing so much information to Moscow that eventually the KGB smelt a rat and suspected they were being controlled by MI5. Klaus Fuchs, the atom spy, was more obviously effective in accelerating development of the Soviet bomb but even his information was received sceptically, and they'd have got there on their own eventually anyway, such is science. There were so many spies here and in America, it must have been hard for the Russians to keep up. This is one reason the Profumo Affair was so damaging -- it was yet another security lapse following a series of spy scandals.
    What made the KGB so effective was that so many of their illegals were true believers in communism. Spymasters are rational, cautious, objective, people by nature, so they must have found it hard to believe their luck.
    I went on a British Council trip to Czechoslovakia in the late 80's. One of my hosts, during an evenings socialising told me that the love of a man for a woman was easy to understand, the love of a man for man harder, but the love of someone for communism impossible to understand.

    TBH I thought rather brave of her.
    True believers compare the grubby, sordid, real world with an idealised version of the future.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's so odd, because one thing that the Tories used to really understand, and where they had a good case to make, was how this kind of annoying paperwork - "red tape" - has a deadening effect on economic activity. And yet they are presiding over the biggest explosion in costly paperwork in decades, all in the name of "free trade". It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

    It becomes painfully obvious that Brexit was never about free trade, but Xenophobia.

    Adding Red tape for immigrants was always the point.
    For skilled immigrants, like my wife, the red tape just got a whole load easier.

    Treating everyone the same, on their own merits, no matter where in the world they come from, is the exact opposite of xenophobia.
    That's far, far from what many Brexit voters want, however. Any significant uptick in non-EU migration after Brexit will cause a significant backlash for the Tories among many core Brexit voters, who were expecting the opposite.
    That depends on who the immigrants are.

    Few people disapprove of doctors from the third world.

    Many people disapprove of turnip pickers from the first world.
    But they don't want to pick the turnips themselves!
    Isn't that Malc G's job?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,362

    Scott_xP said:
    The EU is a depreciating asset in trade terms. Even if the EU were to slap tariffs on one of its best customers, its an ever less significant slice of global trade.

    This mantra of the EU being an ever smaller slice of the global economy and world trade is a good example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. Of course the EU is shrinking in relative terms, because of the growth of Asia and especially China. The same is true for us. But the EU will remain our biggest trading partner for decades to come, because of geography and the similarity of our economies.
    Making it harder to trade with the EU doesn't make it easier to trade with anyone else - quite the opposite in fact. The EU's single market facilitates efficient value chains - which is why Germany is so successful in exporting to the Far East from inside the EU. Having a large domestic market also helps firms to achieve critical mass and become successful exporters. The FTA will preserve some of these benefits, relative to a WTO Brexit, so we should be thankful for that at least.
    The EU has to run hard to win its share of UK trade, just to stand still with where they were before Brexit. That they were prepared to take that risk with Cameron shows they are not a trade organisation, but a political one. One we were right to leave, because our interests were not alligned.

    We can now get back to our relationship with the EU being around trade, where we are much happier.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    HYUFD said:

    Interesting article Robert.

    The German Federal elections next September are certainly the main international elections next year and will be the first since 2002 in which Merkel will not be the CDU/CSU Chancellor candidate. In my view the CDU membership will pick Friedrich Merz to be their candidate who is more rightwing and conservative than Merkel is as well as being a multimillionaire corporate lawyer and former CDU/CSU Bundestag leader from 2000 to 2002.

    In terms of the election itself the CDU/CSU will almost certainly be the largest party in the Bundestag but I cannot see the Greens who are likely to overtake the SPD for second as Robert states supporting Merz for Chancellor and nor can I see a CDU led by Merz supporting the Greens leader, Annalena Baerbock for Chancellor either.

    So that leaves Baerbock to become Chancellor if the Greens, SPD and Linke combined seat total is more than that for the CDU/CSU and FDP combined or Merz to become Chancellor if the CDU/CSU and FDP combined total is more than the Greens, SPD and Linke combined. Assuming too of course Merz will follow Merkel's lead and still refuse to do any deal with the AfD

    Yes, why not keep on speculating about a subject on which you clearly know very little.
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's so odd, because one thing that the Tories used to really understand, and where they had a good case to make, was how this kind of annoying paperwork - "red tape" - has a deadening effect on economic activity. And yet they are presiding over the biggest explosion in costly paperwork in decades, all in the name of "free trade". It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

    It becomes painfully obvious that Brexit was never about free trade, but Xenophobia.

    Adding Red tape for immigrants was always the point.
    For skilled immigrants, like my wife, the red tape just got a whole load easier.

    Treating everyone the same, on their own merits, no matter where in the world they come from, is the exact opposite of xenophobia.
    That's far, far from what many Brexit voters want, however. Any significant uptick in non-EU migration after Brexit will cause a significant backlash for the Tories among many core Brexit voters, who were expecting the opposite.
    That depends on who the immigrants are.

    Few people disapprove of doctors from the third world.

    Many people disapprove of turnip pickers from the first world.
    But they don't want to pick the turnips themselves!
    Supply and demand of labour costs.

    If I was an enterprising turnip farmer I'd offer 'pick your own' organic turnips.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Scott_xP said:

    Maybe this time the politicians will take the voters with them, but theyre not exactly renowned for their plain dealing.

    BoZo is currently the best example that telling lies wins votes
    Well he comes from the same stable as Cameron and Osborne so what do you expect ?
    Same stable but I talked to the trainer and he says on this front - lying - Johnson is the best he's ever had by a distance. Couldn't believe his luck when he put him through his paces on the morning he arrived.
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