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For years Trump’s favourite term of abuse was “loser” – now he’s in danger of owning the brand – pol

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Comments

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,280
    edited December 2020
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    2020


    2012

    That is $100 000 household income a year, not a great deal more than average in the US in terms of household income and an income plenty of skilled white tradesmen will achieve as a household income, remember 'Joe the Plumber'?

    Amongst upper middle class professional voters earning more than $200 000 a year household income Trump did far worse than Romney however
  • kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Listening to Obama's memoirs on R4, he is talking about meeting Merkel and Brown early in his first term. Amazing how long Merkel has been in power, while we have enjoyed Brown, Cameron, May and the clown.

    Lasting 10 years in a genuine democracy is very impressive. Even if your party is dominant not being ousted in that time is not easy. Lasting as long as she has well beyond that is a huge achievement
    If there were people to replace her she would have stepped down already. In the same way Thatcher did a few years too much, eventually the pymgies will take you down.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Quincel said:

    BETTING TIP

    You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

    The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

    Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

    Now in to 6.0
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,462
    edited December 2020
    Reminder that Burnham, like Khan, are good at political spin, while they are actually crap at doing their job. Just like when they were minsters.

    BBC News - Greater Manchester Police failings: Andy Burnham 'should resign'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-55361452
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    It is true, whenever I am down the pub I'm always hearing fellow drinkers complaining about the influence of Foucault on the education system in the 1980s. People talk of nothing else.
    Actually, in the pubs I reckon you drink in, that probably not far from the truth
  • @Philip_Thompson you missed the discussion yesterday I think, we were talking about commuting to work and I remember you had some great ideas about cycling
  • Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

    Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

    This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
    It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.
    The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

    The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.
    If Trump had committed high crimes and misdemeanours, why should it matter what Dems feel about him? Pretty sure that their loathing of Trump wasn’t any greater than that of Dems towards Nixon.
    Boy who cried wolf syndrome.

    Yes there was a wolf in the end, but Dem voters were banging on about impeachment since November 2016 before Trump was even inaugurated.

    Trump was such a polarising figure that it didn't matter if he committed high crimes and misdemeanors or not - Dems wanted him impeached regardless of the facts, Republicans wanted him acquitted regardless of them.
    Fingsaintwottheyusedtobe-ism doesn't just apply to a golden age when the limpid stream of English thought wasn't tainted by garlicky Gallic philosophy, it also applies to visions of past politics unsullied by low cunning and prejudice. There's always been partisanship, mutual loathing and some form of a culture war.

    If you want evidence that the deranged and/or corrupt right has always been with us, the recent tv series Mrs America and a Sky documentary this week on Roy Cohn provides oodles of it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,462
    edited December 2020
    There is so little money in London Mayoral market outside Khan, it wouldn't take much money from Rose himself to move his odds. The classic tactic that record companies used to use to boost their artists back in the day, where they would dispatch people to buy who records, so they could announce their artist is selling like hotcakes, which gets people interested and buying.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    2020


    2012

    That is $100 000 household income a year, not a great deal more than average in the US in terms of household income and an income plenty of skilled white tradesmen will achieve as a household income, remember 'Joe the Plumber'?

    Amongst upper middle class professional voters earning more than $200 000 a year household income Trump did far worse than Romney however
    The proportions in each category are shown in the graphic - did you miss that?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    2020


    2012

    That is $100 000 household income a year, not a great deal more than average in the US in terms of household income and an income plenty of skilled white tradesmen will achieve as a household income, remember 'Joe the Plumber'?

    Amongst upper middle class professional voters earning more than $200 000 a year household income Trump did far worse than Romney however
    The median household income was $68,703 in 2019. So $100,000 would be a good 45% higher than the median.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214
    Quincel said:

    BETTING TIP

    You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

    The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

    Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

    Election might be delayed again? But otherwise - great tip - many thanks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898
    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    BETTING TIP

    You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

    The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

    Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

    Now in to 6.0
    Was thinking about boycotting Betfair with the way they mishandled the POTUS market.
    Between this and Trump still being 1.06 for a 2021 exit, that's over before it even begun.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    2020


    2012

    That is $100 000 household income a year, not a great deal more than average in the US in terms of household income and an income plenty of skilled white tradesmen will achieve as a household income, remember 'Joe the Plumber'?

    Amongst upper middle class professional voters earning more than $200 000 a year household income Trump did far worse than Romney however
    The median household income was $68,703 in 2019. So $100,000 would be a good 45% higher than the median.
    Hy doesnt read the stuff he so quickly pastes into his own posts, clearly
  • Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    Anyone sensible and ambitious who can see what awaits Bozo in 2021 would be setting themselves up as an alternative right now. It will be extremely ugly.

    'I'm alternative right, not Alt Right'
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    BETTING TIP

    You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

    The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

    Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

    Now in to 6.0
    I've taken it all. Sorry
  • I bet that verge is going to be covered in bottles of golden liquid which is definitely not Irn Bru. Don’t open those fast food boxes whatever you do..

    https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/status/1339864277767872512?s=21

    No deal is here. We may fudge a last second deal which gets ratified at some later point, but no deal is already in effect.

    The massive queues are as traffic ramps up to avoid tariffs. This week is demonstrating to the country what the industry already knew and has been highlighting - that customs checks and the current UK / EU traffic are simply incompatible.

    As soon as we tip into 2021 the number of vehicles will drop significantly with the processing time per truck increasing significantly. The awkward problem being that we need the stuff that comes on trucks, but as soon as we try and ship it the border comes to a stop. If we don't trade the border delays may only be in single digit hours as opposed to the days it will be otherwise.
    So we will adapt. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    Life finds a way to adapt.

    I wonder if regional inequality might be addressed if trade no longer occurs narrowly through a South East tunnel and is diversified across ports like Liverpool, Portsmouth etc too.
    Regional inequality reduced by everyone being poorer, just the South East being proportionally more poorer?

    I thought you guys opposed such things. Socialism and all that.
    If we lower the Common External Tariff so that we aren't protecting trade with little Europe over the global trade then we can improve our livelihoods not lower them.
    Of course we can. Doesn't mean we will.
    I think we will. Truss is doing a great job.
  • Mr. eek, I remember hearing somewhere that Perez had something lined up for 2022.

    Rumours are it's with Williams. So Perez to Williams in 2022, Russell to Merc, Bottas out. Gives a new seat for Red Bull for the new Japanse driver if he's good enough, or Albon to come back if he's heads on right (or gasly to then step up).
    I have to assume that Latifi comes with sponsor money as Sirotkin did as I can't think of any other reason Williams would keep him for 2021. What F1 needs badly is more teams - there aren't enough cars on the grid. I hope that the cost-cutting agreements will shave the top off the sillier spenders at the top and give other people a way in.

    Final F1 comments before I go back to my monster spreadsheet of death. Alonso bombing around in that Renault R25 on tyres it wasn't designed for after 15 years as a museum exhibit and going quicker than today's cars were going. As various drivers / principles have commented it makes you wonder about the directions that F1 has decided to go since the V10 days. Yes we need new fuel efficient cars but do they have to be fatter heavier and lumpen with it?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    It is true, whenever I am down the pub I'm always hearing fellow drinkers complaining about the influence of Foucault on the education system in the 1980s. People talk of nothing else.
    Actually, in the pubs I reckon you drink in, that probably not far from the truth
    I didn't realise Easter Road has got so fancy.
  • MaxPB said:

    A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

    Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.
    There's different types of coal though isn't there?

    Coal for burning absolutely is antiquated.

    Coal for steel is different and still needed though isn't it?

    No idea which this one is but there's a future usage I believe for the right types of coal even in a net zero future.
    As I understand it the coal is to be used to make steel for.....er.......windfarms.

    Its almost as if Maoist 20-year plans have horrendous unforeseen downsides.
    What's wrong with that in your eyes? 🤔

    Producing steel for long term energy production is a far superior usage of coal than merely burning it for electricity.
    What's wrong with it is it that Zero 2050 is a Great Leap Forward Maoist target. Burning coal for steel is just one example of how when you have these, everything, and in particular inconvenient truth, gets completely and utterly ignored in pursuit of the goal. Destroying forests to grow biofuels is another example of this

    Frank Dikotter's 'Mao's Great Famine' and Jung Chang's 'Mao, the Unknown Story' are instructive in this respect. Conservative politicians should know these books by rote.
    The idea that adopting clean energy is Maoist is preposterous absurd nonsense.

    And you've still not said what you object to about producing steel? Steel is valuable. I have no qualms with steel being produced, what is your objection to it?

    We aren't destroying forests for biofuel in this country. That is a silly suggestion.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

    They have literally never heard of her.
    They've literally never heard of Foucault either - but they already know they're not keen on him...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428

    MaxPB said:

    A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

    Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.
    There's different types of coal though isn't there?

    Coal for burning absolutely is antiquated.

    Coal for steel is different and still needed though isn't it?

    No idea which this one is but there's a future usage I believe for the right types of coal even in a net zero future.
    As I understand it the coal is to be used to make steel for.....er.......windfarms.

    Its almost as if Maoist 20-year plans have horrendous unforeseen downsides.
    What's wrong with that in your eyes? 🤔

    Producing steel for long term energy production is a far superior usage of coal than merely burning it for electricity.
    What's wrong with it is it that Zero 2050 is a Great Leap Forward Maoist target. Burning coal for steel is just one example of how when you have these, everything, and in particular inconvenient truth, gets completely and utterly ignored in pursuit of the goal. Destroying forests to grow biofuels is another example of this

    Frank Dikotter's 'Mao's Great Famine' and Jung Chang's 'Mao, the Unknown Story' are instructive in this respect. Conservative politicians should know these books by rote.
    The idea that adopting clean energy is Maoist is preposterous absurd nonsense.

    And you've still not said what you object to about producing steel? Steel is valuable. I have no qualms with steel being produced, what is your objection to it?

    We aren't destroying forests for biofuel in this country. That is a silly suggestion.
    There is a site that manufactures bricks 5 minutes down the road from this proposed opencast mine.

    I can't think of a more "green" method of manufacturing than that.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    kinabalu said:

    Plus he totally fluked 2016 and even that was with Putin's help. Joke figure. Means nothing. Stands for nothing. Just a warning of what can happen if a critical mass of voters get morally lax and intellectually lazy. I've made a big, life changing decision and it's only right and proper that I announce it here before I even tell my mum. I have cancelled Donald Trump and I'm moving on - apart from the occasional post like this one on the (I predict) rapidly diminishing number of threads where he's the topic. He's going to fade away now and what a relief it will be. Ok, other grisly figures will no doubt emerge to pitch for his hardcore fanbase, but this will not detract from the massive positive of not having to constantly see or hear or read about him. For over 4 years almost every single day has had this toxic bozo prominent in the news. "What did Trump say?" being the BBC template, followed by a regurgitation of whatever idiocy or hate-speech or lying bullshit he had chosen to emit that day. No longer, least not here in the UK. I often reach for the words of Martin Luther King on a Friday morning and I do so without hesitation here. Free at last, free at last. :smile:

    You will miss him.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    BETTING TIP

    You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

    The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

    Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

    Now in to 6.0
    I've taken it all. Sorry
    You didnt get all of it! :)
  • I've not watched The Mandalorian yet. Is it family friendly?

    Thinking of watching it over the Christmas holidays with my children if it is. Watched the original trilogy with them in the summer, it didn't hold the four year olds attention but the six year old really liked Yoda and has seen pictures of 'baby Yoda' and says 'baby Yoda' is "so cute".

    Might like Chewbacca's son too. Highly unlikely as Episode IV and a half The Holiday Special is utterly shite. I think the cartoon in the middle introducing Bobba Fett is the only vaguely redeeming part.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xSkC4PUsTw
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,993

    Mr. eek, I remember hearing somewhere that Perez had something lined up for 2022.

    Rumours are it's with Williams. So Perez to Williams in 2022, Russell to Merc, Bottas out. Gives a new seat for Red Bull for the new Japanse driver if he's good enough, or Albon to come back if he's heads on right (or gasly to then step up).
    I have to assume that Latifi comes with sponsor money as Sirotkin did as I can't think of any other reason Williams would keep him for 2021. What F1 needs badly is more teams - there aren't enough cars on the grid. I hope that the cost-cutting agreements will shave the top off the sillier spenders at the top and give other people a way in.

    Final F1 comments before I go back to my monster spreadsheet of death. Alonso bombing around in that Renault R25 on tyres it wasn't designed for after 15 years as a museum exhibit and going quicker than today's cars were going. As various drivers / principles have commented it makes you wonder about the directions that F1 has decided to go since the V10 days. Yes we need new fuel efficient cars but do they have to be fatter heavier and lumpen with it?
    Was it going quicker?
    I thought I saw reports saying it was lapping several seconds slower, but it just felt quicker.
  • Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

    Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

    This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
    It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.
    The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

    The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.
    If Trump had committed high crimes and misdemeanours, why should it matter what Dems feel about him? Pretty sure that their loathing of Trump wasn’t any greater than that of Dems towards Nixon.
    Boy who cried wolf syndrome.

    Yes there was a wolf in the end, but Dem voters were banging on about impeachment since November 2016 before Trump was even inaugurated.

    Trump was such a polarising figure that it didn't matter if he committed high crimes and misdemeanors or not - Dems wanted him impeached regardless of the facts, Republicans wanted him acquitted regardless of them.
    Fingsaintwottheyusedtobe-ism doesn't just apply to a golden age when the limpid stream of English thought wasn't tainted by garlicky Gallic philosophy, it also applies to visions of past politics unsullied by low cunning and prejudice. There's always been partisanship, mutual loathing and some form of a culture war.

    If you want evidence that the deranged and/or corrupt right has always been with us, the recent tv series Mrs America and a Sky documentary this week on Roy Cohn provides oodles of it.
    Not just right. There's derangement and corruption aplenty on both sides. Good people call out their own side as much as the opposition.

    One key flaw of the US Constitution though is it was written without partisan politics in mind. Our Constitution has evolved and adapted to work with partisans but theirs was written with some idealised notions and then inevitably within a few years partisanship took over. But the "checks and balances" were already written and many have not evolved since.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

    They have literally never heard of her.
    They've literally never heard of Foucault either - but they already know they're not keen on him...
    But they’ve definitely heard of the modern woke bollocks that says they’re all racist.
  • https://twitter.com/ImIncorrigible/status/1339887784056795138

    I remember just weeks ago when some here insisted this time, this time, the Tories would do broadband properly
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    HYUFD said:
    Nothing new there, Johnson's popularity amongst the working public comes as no surprise. Benny Hill, on whom Johnson bases his "Boris" character was of course the peoples' celebrity throughout the 1970s.
  • HYUFD said:
    Nothing new there, Johnson's popularity amongst the working public comes as no surprise. Benny Hill, on whom Johnson bases his "Boris" character was of course the peoples' celebrity throughout the 1970s.
    Current polling would suggest that Johnson is losing many of the voters he gained in 2019, not Corbyn has been a strong pull for Labour
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Mr. eek, I remember hearing somewhere that Perez had something lined up for 2022.

    Rumours are it's with Williams. So Perez to Williams in 2022, Russell to Merc, Bottas out. Gives a new seat for Red Bull for the new Japanse driver if he's good enough, or Albon to come back if he's heads on right (or gasly to then step up).
    I have to assume that Latifi comes with sponsor money as Sirotkin did as I can't think of any other reason Williams would keep him for 2021. What F1 needs badly is more teams - there aren't enough cars on the grid. I hope that the cost-cutting agreements will shave the top off the sillier spenders at the top and give other people a way in.

    Final F1 comments before I go back to my monster spreadsheet of death. Alonso bombing around in that Renault R25 on tyres it wasn't designed for after 15 years as a museum exhibit and going quicker than today's cars were going. As various drivers / principles have commented it makes you wonder about the directions that F1 has decided to go since the V10 days. Yes we need new fuel efficient cars but do they have to be fatter heavier and lumpen with it?
    Was it going quicker?
    I thought I saw reports saying it was lapping several seconds slower, but it just felt quicker.
    It was ultimately faster than the race laps of the modern cars (in a race where they all used the hard tyres in preservation mode) but slower than the qualifying times of the 2020 cars.

    Made one hell of a noise though! :D
  • https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1339851685666144258

    I remember when this was called Project Fear
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Reminder that Burnham, like Khan, are good at political spin, while they are actually crap at doing their job. Just like when they were minsters.

    BBC News - Greater Manchester Police failings: Andy Burnham 'should resign'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-55361452

    Bit of a nerve, a Tory MP complaining that a failure should lead to the chief politician resigning.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,123
    edited December 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    2020


    2012

    In 2012 Romney won 52% of voters earning $200 000 - $249 999 and Romney won 55% of voters earning over $250 000.

    In 2020 Trump could only tie Biden with voters earning over $200 000 at 44% each.

    In 2012 Romney won 51% of graduates but only 48% of high school only graduates and just 35% of non high school graduates.

    In 2020 Trump won just 47% of graduates but won 54% of those with only a high school or less education and Trump won only 48% of white college graduates but Trump won 67% of whites with no college degree.

    So my point was absolutely right, the GOP coalition has shifted to white voters without a college degree.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
    I think you're partly right but it's exaggerated. A few points:

    1. This is not all about Trump - it's also the comparator. Romney was a very traditional GOP candidate who could have been sent by central casting for high earning moderates - no intention of shaking up the system, and would cut taxes.

    2. The extreme expression of your argument just isn't right - although Trump made inroads with non-college educated voters, the Republican base continues to be relatively wealthy. Similarly in the UK, the red wall broke not because Johnson "won" the working class vote in an absolute sense but that he kept the voters of posh parts of Bolsover (of which there are plenty) and did less badly than previous Tories in parts that used to provide a Labour block vote. It's a subtle difference but an important one - it's an important shift but not a "flipping" of party roles as happened with the strange death of Southern Democrats/Northern Republicans.

    3. There appears to have been some reversion to the mean in 2020 compared with 2016. Interestingly, for all the talk of Trump alienating women and ethnic minority voters, the biggest pro-Biden shifts were among white men (both college and non-college educated) and slightly less well off voters. That's partly low base, and partly that Clinton did very well among black voters (the Clinton brand remains very strong) and very poorly among men. But the 2020 vote was more "normal" than 2016 in many ways. I'd suggest this is partly because, for all Trump's personal eccentricities, he governed as a somewhat traditional, "old Republican" in some respects - tax cuts and social conservatism. In 2016 you could project what you wanted on him - many new GOP voters predicted he'd be quite socially liberal and prioritise tax breaks for less well off, but they were disappointed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    Yes, a denunciation of Foucault is always guaranteed to appeal to the WWC.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,993
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. eek, I remember hearing somewhere that Perez had something lined up for 2022.

    Rumours are it's with Williams. So Perez to Williams in 2022, Russell to Merc, Bottas out. Gives a new seat for Red Bull for the new Japanse driver if he's good enough, or Albon to come back if he's heads on right (or gasly to then step up).
    I have to assume that Latifi comes with sponsor money as Sirotkin did as I can't think of any other reason Williams would keep him for 2021. What F1 needs badly is more teams - there aren't enough cars on the grid. I hope that the cost-cutting agreements will shave the top off the sillier spenders at the top and give other people a way in.

    Final F1 comments before I go back to my monster spreadsheet of death. Alonso bombing around in that Renault R25 on tyres it wasn't designed for after 15 years as a museum exhibit and going quicker than today's cars were going. As various drivers / principles have commented it makes you wonder about the directions that F1 has decided to go since the V10 days. Yes we need new fuel efficient cars but do they have to be fatter heavier and lumpen with it?
    Was it going quicker?
    I thought I saw reports saying it was lapping several seconds slower, but it just felt quicker.
    It was ultimately faster than the race laps of the modern cars (in a race where they all used the hard tyres in preservation mode) but slower than the qualifying times of the 2020 cars.

    Made one hell of a noise though! :D
    Yeah, the noise, smaller size, and agility made it seem far faster.
    Just checked - fastest lap was about 4 seconds off of pole and a second and a half behind Latifi in the final Williams; I think qualifying would be a better comparison. Especially as Alonso needed a cool-off lap immediately after setting his fastest lap.

    The size difference is very noticeable.
  • For all this talk of Priti Patel being so good, she's as unpopular in the Red Wall as anywhere else in the country
  • I had my flu jab this morning
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    Yes, a denunciation of Foucault is always guaranteed to appeal to the WWC.
    Tea break at medical school interviews. Am ensuring every candidate has a thorough knowledge of Foucalt and modern trends in Critical Theory. Indeed demonstrating asymmetric power dynamics again shortly...
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    Quincel said:

    BETTING TIP

    You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

    The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

    Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

    Now in to 6.0
    I've taken it all. Sorry
    No need to apologise, I won't pretend that I didn't fill up on all I was willing to risk before posting it here. I averaged 6.95 though, so nicely done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

    They have literally never heard of her.
    They've literally never heard of Foucault either - but they already know they're not keen on him...
    But they’ve definitely heard of the modern woke bollocks that says they’re all racist.
    We've already established that the speech, as far as it referred to UK education, was itself bollocks.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

    Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

    Trump should have been impeached on the evidence but the Senate is hyperpartisan these days. If Nixon were still with us, he'd have wondered about the injustice of it all.
    Trump technically was impeached.

    Nixon technically was not.
    There’s no “technically” about it. He was impeached. Full stop. Impeachment is just the referring by the House to the Senate for trial.

    He wasn’t convicted.

    That's what technically means. He was impeached.

    But people (mistakenly) use the term to mean removed from office. That didn't happen. It has never happened via the impeachment process.
    That didn't happen with Trump, either, so either way your formulation was wrong.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Mr. eek, I remember hearing somewhere that Perez had something lined up for 2022.

    Rumours are it's with Williams. So Perez to Williams in 2022, Russell to Merc, Bottas out. Gives a new seat for Red Bull for the new Japanse driver if he's good enough, or Albon to come back if he's heads on right (or gasly to then step up).
    Or Perez when he wins the championship for them next year... :smile:
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    I see the Telegraph is promoting Tier 1 Isle of Wight as "Your next staycation destination".
  • Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    Yes, a denunciation of Foucault is always guaranteed to appeal to the WWC.
    Tea break at medical school interviews. Am ensuring every candidate has a thorough knowledge of Foucalt and modern trends in Critical Theory. Indeed demonstrating asymmetric power dynamics again shortly...
    One of Foucault's seminal works is 'A History of Madness'. :smiley:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    Yes, a denunciation of Foucault is always guaranteed to appeal to the WWC.
    As they take out their copy of Intellectual Impostures and join in the mockery.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

    They have literally never heard of her.
    They've literally never heard of Foucault either - but they already know they're not keen on him...
    But they’ve definitely heard of the modern woke bollocks that says they’re all racist.
    As the great man remarked in 1982, 'I don't feel that it is necessary to know exactly what I am'.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    It is true, whenever I am down the pub I'm always hearing fellow drinkers complaining about the influence of Foucault on the education system in the 1980s. People talk of nothing else.
    Actually, in the pubs I reckon you drink in, that probably not far from the truth
    I didn't realise Easter Road has got so fancy.
    Do you suppose they debate Bourdieu in the pubs down Gorgie Road?
  • Nigelb said:

    alex_ said:

    DavidL said:

    In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

    Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

    Trump should have been impeached on the evidence but the Senate is hyperpartisan these days. If Nixon were still with us, he'd have wondered about the injustice of it all.
    Trump technically was impeached.

    Nixon technically was not.
    There’s no “technically” about it. He was impeached. Full stop. Impeachment is just the referring by the House to the Senate for trial.

    He wasn’t convicted.

    That's what technically means. He was impeached.

    But people (mistakenly) use the term to mean removed from office. That didn't happen. It has never happened via the impeachment process.
    That didn't happen with Trump, either, so either way your formulation was wrong.
    What are you talking about?

    My formulation was right.

    He was technically impeached. He wasn't removed from office if that is what you mistakenly mean by impeachment (no President has ever been removed via impeachment) but technically he was impeached.
  • Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Thanks. Useful info. I would have used the like button but that doesn't seem right.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    dixiedean said:

    I see the Telegraph is promoting Tier 1 Isle of Wight as "Your next staycation destination".

    You could do worse. I have a very soft spot for West Wight. But then I like geology, military architecture, and long walks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Very handy, thanks.

    I like that you can change the settings as well.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Any stats on immunity after one jab?
  • dixiedean said:

    I see the Telegraph is promoting Tier 1 Isle of Wight as "Your next staycation destination".

    Have a pleasant holiday and kill other people's deadwood grannies rather than your own, win win.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

    Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

    This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
    It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.
    The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

    The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.
    If Trump had committed high crimes and misdemeanours, why should it matter what Dems feel about him? Pretty sure that their loathing of Trump wasn’t any greater than that of Dems towards Nixon.
    Boy who cried wolf syndrome.

    Yes there was a wolf in the end, but Dem voters were banging on about impeachment since November 2016 before Trump was even inaugurated.

    Trump was such a polarising figure that it didn't matter if he committed high crimes and misdemeanors or not - Dems wanted him impeached regardless of the facts, Republicans wanted him acquitted regardless of them.
    Fingsaintwottheyusedtobe-ism doesn't just apply to a golden age when the limpid stream of English thought wasn't tainted by garlicky Gallic philosophy, it also applies to visions of past politics unsullied by low cunning and prejudice. There's always been partisanship, mutual loathing and some form of a culture war.

    If you want evidence that the deranged and/or corrupt right has always been with us, the recent tv series Mrs America and a Sky documentary this week on Roy Cohn provides oodles of it.
    Not just right. There's derangement and corruption aplenty on both sides. Good people call out their own side as much as the opposition.

    One key flaw of the US Constitution though is it was written without partisan politics in mind. Our Constitution has evolved and adapted to work with partisans but theirs was written with some idealised notions and then inevitably within a few years partisanship took over. But the "checks and balances" were already written and many have not evolved since.
    The US has been extremely partisan in the past, indeed they had a civil war in the 19th century ! The electoral count act of 1887 is a useful safeguard against Pence pulling off the same nonsense that happened in 1876.
  • TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Any stats on immunity after one jab?
    Yes. The Pfizer statistics show almost 100% immunity from ten days after the first jab.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,641
    I think the overlooked effects of QE will become 'a thing' in 2021. Why they have been overlooked is as interesting as to what the damage will be.

    Fifty Shades of QE: Conflicts of Interest in Economic Research
    https://bfi.uchicago.edu/insight/research-summary/fifty-shades-of-qe-conflicts-of-interest-in-economic-research/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Very handy, thanks.

    I like that you can change the settings as well.
    Give it a week or two and I'll be ticking "morbid obesity" as an u/l health condition.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Any stats on immunity after one jab?
    Yes. The Pfizer statistics show almost 100% immunity from ten days after the first jab.
    Thanks! And I suppose it's cumulative.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited December 2020
    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    It is true, whenever I am down the pub I'm always hearing fellow drinkers complaining about the influence of Foucault on the education system in the 1980s. People talk of nothing else.
    Actually, in the pubs I reckon you drink in, that probably not far from the truth
    I didn't realise Easter Road has got so fancy.
    Do you suppose they debate Bourdieu in the pubs down Gorgie Road?
    I had taken that as a given.

    To be fair, there are actually a fair few places on Easter that are probably hotbeds of Continental Philosophy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898
    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Based on your profile, there are between 27,132,105 and 38,844,493 people in front of you in the queue for a COVID vaccine across the UK.
    📅 Given a vaccination rate of 1,000,000 a week and an uptake of 70.6%, you should expect to receive your vaccine between 26/06/2021 and 16/09/2021.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Very handy, thanks.

    I like that you can change the settings as well.
    Still no notification about mine!
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Any stats on immunity after one jab?
    Yes. The Pfizer statistics show almost 100% immunity from ten days after the first jab.
    Thanks! And I suppose it's cumulative.
    Hard to tell. The data shows an almost flatline of next to no COVID infections coming from ten days after the first jab. The ~5% of infections come almost all in the first ten days after the jab (and may even refer to people infected before they got the jab but didn't know about it).

    Whether the second jab is even necessary or not isn't really known since there's no data on people who didn't get the second jab.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    It is true, whenever I am down the pub I'm always hearing fellow drinkers complaining about the influence of Foucault on the education system in the 1980s. People talk of nothing else.
    Actually, in the pubs I reckon you drink in, that probably not far from the truth
    I didn't realise Easter Road has got so fancy.
    Do you suppose they debate Bourdieu in the pubs down Gorgie Road?
    I had taken that as a given.

    To be fair, there are actually a fair few places on Easter that are probably hotbeds of Continental Philosophy.
    I had rather assumed the Gorgie denizens, given their view of the Easter Road habitues, would go more for the Common Sense Realism school ...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited December 2020

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Any stats on immunity after one jab?
    Yes. The Pfizer statistics show almost 100% immunity from ten days after the first jab.
    Thanks! And I suppose it's cumulative.
    Hard to tell. The data shows an almost flatline of next to no COVID infections coming from ten days after the first jab. The ~5% of infections come almost all in the first ten days after the jab (and may even refer to people infected before they got the jab but didn't know about it).

    Whether the second jab is even necessary or not isn't really known since there's no data on people who didn't get the second jab.
    Thanks. One to ask Tim Harford but I suspect he and his panel of experts will say what you have.
  • Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Interesting. Even though I'm a fair way down the priority list, I was surprised at how soon I might get the jab, if the assumptions are right. I hope they can achieve 1m a week (and get enough of the vaccines to do that).

    Based on your profile, there are between 9,926,645 and 12,305,865 people in front of you in the queue for a COVID vaccine across the UK.

    Given a vaccination rate of 1,000,000 a week and an uptake of 70.6%, you should expect to receive your vaccine between 25/02/2021 and 14/03/2021.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Sandpit said:

    Mr. eek, I remember hearing somewhere that Perez had something lined up for 2022.

    Rumours are it's with Williams. So Perez to Williams in 2022, Russell to Merc, Bottas out. Gives a new seat for Red Bull for the new Japanse driver if he's good enough, or Albon to come back if he's heads on right (or gasly to then step up).
    I have to assume that Latifi comes with sponsor money as Sirotkin did as I can't think of any other reason Williams would keep him for 2021. What F1 needs badly is more teams - there aren't enough cars on the grid. I hope that the cost-cutting agreements will shave the top off the sillier spenders at the top and give other people a way in.

    Final F1 comments before I go back to my monster spreadsheet of death. Alonso bombing around in that Renault R25 on tyres it wasn't designed for after 15 years as a museum exhibit and going quicker than today's cars were going. As various drivers / principles have commented it makes you wonder about the directions that F1 has decided to go since the V10 days. Yes we need new fuel efficient cars but do they have to be fatter heavier and lumpen with it?
    Was it going quicker?
    I thought I saw reports saying it was lapping several seconds slower, but it just felt quicker.
    It was ultimately faster than the race laps of the modern cars (in a race where they all used the hard tyres in preservation mode) but slower than the qualifying times of the 2020 cars.

    Made one hell of a noise though! :D
    Yeah, the noise, smaller size, and agility made it seem far faster.
    Just checked - fastest lap was about 4 seconds off of pole and a second and a half behind Latifi in the final Williams; I think qualifying would be a better comparison. Especially as Alonso needed a cool-off lap immediately after setting his fastest lap.

    The size difference is very noticeable.
    Part of that, though, is for safety improvements rather than power-plant tech.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Who said 2021 could only be better?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mullet-hairdo-back-dead-barmy-23185496.amp

    Continues to put fish at the forefront of the news.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited December 2020
    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    It is true, whenever I am down the pub I'm always hearing fellow drinkers complaining about the influence of Foucault on the education system in the 1980s. People talk of nothing else.
    Actually, in the pubs I reckon you drink in, that probably not far from the truth
    I didn't realise Easter Road has got so fancy.
    Do you suppose they debate Bourdieu in the pubs down Gorgie Road?
    I had taken that as a given.

    To be fair, there are actually a fair few places on Easter that are probably hotbeds of Continental Philosophy.
    You cannae throw a rock on Great Western Rd without hitting a Jags fan with a volume of Sartre peeping out the pocket of their French railwayman's jacket. You also have the added bonus of having hit them with a rock.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,280
    edited December 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    2020


    2012

    In 2012 Romney won 52% of voters earning $200 000 - $249 999 and Romney won 55% of voters earning over $250 000.

    In 2020 Trump could only tie Biden with voters earning over $200 000 at 44% each.

    In 2012 Romney won 51% of graduates but only 48% of high school only graduates and just 35% of non high school graduates.

    In 2020 Trump won just 47% of graduates but won 54% of those with only a high school or less education and Trump won only 48% of white college graduates but Trump won 67% of whites with no college degree.

    So my point was absolutely right, the GOP coalition has shifted to white voters without a college degree.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
    I think you're partly right but it's exaggerated. A few points:

    1. This is not all about Trump - it's also the comparator. Romney was a very traditional GOP candidate who could have been sent by central casting for high earning moderates - no intention of shaking up the system, and would cut taxes.

    2. The extreme expression of your argument just isn't right - although Trump made inroads with non-college educated voters, the Republican base continues to be relatively wealthy. Similarly in the UK, the red wall broke not because Johnson "won" the working class vote in an absolute sense but that he kept the voters of posh parts of Bolsover (of which there are plenty) and did less badly than previous Tories in parts that used to provide a Labour block vote. It's a subtle difference but an important one - it's an important shift but not a "flipping" of party roles as happened with the strange death of Southern Democrats/Northern Republicans.

    3. There appears to have been some reversion to the mean in 2020 compared with 2016. Interestingly, for all the talk of Trump alienating women and ethnic minority voters, the biggest pro-Biden shifts were among white men (both college and non-college educated) and slightly less well off voters. That's partly low base, and partly that Clinton did very well among black voters (the Clinton brand remains very strong) and very poorly among men. But the 2020 vote was more "normal" than 2016 in many ways. I'd suggest this is partly because, for all Trump's personal eccentricities, he governed as a somewhat traditional, "old Republican" in some respects - tax cuts and social conservatism. In 2016 you could project what you wanted on him - many new GOP voters predicted he'd be quite socially liberal and prioritise tax breaks for less well off, but they were disappointed.
    Agree on 1, same with Cameron here.

    2 I don't disagree on average the Tories and Republicans still tend to win wealthy voters, even if by less than Cameron and Romney did but my point was more about education than income eg a high earning non graduate voter will be more likely to vote Tory or GOP now still than a low earning graduate who will likely still be a Labour or Democratic voter.

    3 Biden made his biggest gains amongst middle income earners yes and eroded Trump's lead with non college educated white men, though Trump still won them convincingly, which was why he was the best Democratic candidate in terms of beating Trump and did narrowly manage to do so.

    However it should be pointed out Trump did better with the poorest voters earning under $30 000 than he did in 2016 and with African Americans too, for them I suspect issues like law and order were paramount rather than economics and immigration would have been an issue for low income whites
  • Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Based on your profile, there are between 27,132,105 and 38,844,493 people in front of you in the queue for a COVID vaccine across the UK.
    📅 Given a vaccination rate of 1,000,000 a week and an uptake of 70.6%, you should expect to receive your vaccine between 26/06/2021 and 16/09/2021.
    Mine was between 12/05/2021 and 03/06/2021. What is better news is that my Mum who is in her late 70s should get it late January. That will remove almost all of the personal concerns I have.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    dixiedean said:

    I see the Telegraph is promoting Tier 1 Isle of Wight as "Your next staycation destination".

    Have a pleasant holiday and kill other people's deadwood grannies rather than your own, win win.
    One-time friend of mine owned a pharmacy on Wight. Got into trouble with the NHS, basically because he thought he was cleverer than anyone else about the NHS contract. I was acting as an advisor to people in his position then and he asked for my help. Took a good look at his 'defence' and advised him to plead guilty and apologise. He refused my advice (and didn't pay me) defended himself, got fined the maximum and eventually struck off.
  • MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Very handy, thanks.

    I like that you can change the settings as well.
    Still no notification about mine!
    My wife is between 22nd Dec and 18th Jan and I am between 18th Jan and 29th Jan

    We await patiently
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    I'm 28 and my "place in the queue" is between March and April apparently.

    That underlying medical condition is finally paying off!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,280
    edited December 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    2020


    2012

    That is $100 000 household income a year, not a great deal more than average in the US in terms of household income and an income plenty of skilled white tradesmen will achieve as a household income, remember 'Joe the Plumber'?

    Amongst upper middle class professional voters earning more than $200 000 a year household income Trump did far worse than Romney however
    The median household income was $68,703 in 2019. So $100,000 would be a good 45% higher than the median.
    26% of US voters have a household income over $100 000 so earning that much gives you an above average income but it does not make you rich.

    Only 7% of US voters have a household income over $200 000 however, so earning more than $200 000 means you have reached a level to be counted as rich

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Very handy, thanks.

    I like that you can change the settings as well.
    Still no notification about mine!
    My wife is between 22nd Dec and 18th Jan and I am between 18th Jan and 29th Jan

    We await patiently
    Big G like everything else in the NHS you need to sharpen your elbows. Call them and push if you haven't heard a date by now.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited December 2020

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Interesting. Even though I'm a fair way down the priority list, I was surprised at how soon I might get the jab, if the assumptions are right. I hope they can achieve 1m a week (and get enough of the vaccines to do that).

    Based on your profile, there are between 9,926,645 and 12,305,865 people in front of you in the queue for a COVID vaccine across the UK.

    Given a vaccination rate of 1,000,000 a week and an uptake of 70.6%, you should expect to receive your vaccine between 25/02/2021 and 14/03/2021.
    Cheltenham Day One: 16th March.
  • dixiedean said:

    I see the Telegraph is promoting Tier 1 Isle of Wight as "Your next staycation destination".

    Have a pleasant holiday and kill other people's deadwood grannies rather than your own, win win.
    One-time friend of mine owned a pharmacy on Wight. Got into trouble with the NHS, basically because he thought he was cleverer than anyone else about the NHS contract. I was acting as an advisor to people in his position then and he asked for my help. Took a good look at his 'defence' and advised him to plead guilty and apologise. He refused my advice (and didn't pay me) defended himself, got fined the maximum and eventually struck off.
    If it were ever in doubt, I will always take the OKC advice :)
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Alistair said:

    Carnyx said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    It is true, whenever I am down the pub I'm always hearing fellow drinkers complaining about the influence of Foucault on the education system in the 1980s. People talk of nothing else.
    Actually, in the pubs I reckon you drink in, that probably not far from the truth
    I didn't realise Easter Road has got so fancy.
    Do you suppose they debate Bourdieu in the pubs down Gorgie Road?
    I had taken that as a given.

    To be fair, there are actually a fair few places on Easter that are probably hotbeds of Continental Philosophy.
    You cannae throw a rock on Great Western Rd without hitting a Jags fan with a volume of Sartre peeping out the pocket of their French railwayman's jacket. You also have the added bonus of having hit them with a rock.
    It'll be an added bonus for them too, since they know that they cannot escape anguish, for they are anguish.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,462
    edited December 2020
    Mark Drakeford has blamed 'selfish' behaviour by the public for forcing a fresh lockdown in Wales.

    The Welsh First Minister insisted his 17-day firebreak at the end of October had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9067273/Mark-Drakeford-blames-selfish-behaviour-fresh-lockdown-Wales.html
  • The calculator which @Foxy pointed us to assumes that the take-up rate of the vaccine will be the same as that of the flu jab (70.6%). That strikes me as unlikely, I expect it to be higher. Also it assumes the government target of 1m a week is met (and met consistently), which is probably optimistic. So don't pencil your expected jab date in the diary quite yet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    dixiedean said:

    Who said 2021 could only be better?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mullet-hairdo-back-dead-barmy-23185496.amp

    Continues to put fish at the forefront of the news.

    Fox Jr2 has a modern mullet. You have to be old enough not to remember them last time around. True of much fashion, I suppose...
  • Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Who said 2021 could only be better?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mullet-hairdo-back-dead-barmy-23185496.amp

    Continues to put fish at the forefront of the news.

    Fox Jr2 has a modern mullet. You have to be old enough not to remember them last time around. True of much fashion, I suppose...
    What's a modern mullet? The same as a traditional one, but the hairdresser chargers £100?
  • Mark Drakeford has blamed 'selfish' behaviour by the public for forcing a fresh lockdown in Wales.

    The Welsh First Minister insisted his 17-day firebreak at the end of October had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9067273/Mark-Drakeford-blames-selfish-behaviour-fresh-lockdown-Wales.html

    He's right in the sense that people are utterly useless and don't follow the rules here but he's wrong because the lockdown was too short and he was wrong to end it.

    Even going into Tiers wouldn't have worked, as England has proved.

    His mistake was ending the lockdown at all, just as England made the mistake too.

    So all in all it's a score draw.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,362

    Mark Drakeford has blamed 'selfish' behaviour by the public for forcing a fresh lockdown in Wales.

    The Welsh First Minister insisted his 17-day firebreak at the end of October had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9067273/Mark-Drakeford-blames-selfish-behaviour-fresh-lockdown-Wales.html

    Working assumption when dealing with Covid has to be that people are prone to think that the regulations are for other people, because they are being sensible, limiting the BBQ in their back garden to just 50 people....
  • Mark Drakeford has blamed 'selfish' behaviour by the public for forcing a fresh lockdown in Wales.

    The Welsh First Minister insisted his 17-day firebreak at the end of October had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9067273/Mark-Drakeford-blames-selfish-behaviour-fresh-lockdown-Wales.html

    Working assumption when dealing with Covid has to be that people are prone to think that the regulations are for other people, because they are being sensible, limiting the BBQ in their back garden to just 50 people....
    Or business dinners to 27....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    The calculator which @Foxy pointed us to assumes that the take-up rate of the vaccine will be the same as that of the flu jab (70.6%). That strikes me as unlikely, I expect it to be higher. Also it assumes the government target of 1m a week is met (and met consistently), which is probably optimistic. So don't pencil your expected jab date in the diary quite yet.

    Agreed. OTOH, provided we can get enough vaccine I doubt we will top out at 1m. I suspect it will be higher.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Mark Drakeford has blamed 'selfish' behaviour by the public for forcing a fresh lockdown in Wales.

    The Welsh First Minister insisted his 17-day firebreak at the end of October had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9067273/Mark-Drakeford-blames-selfish-behaviour-fresh-lockdown-Wales.html

    Wait, so he's blaming the people for taking him seriously when he and Labour presented this idea as a solution? He told them that "this will make it go away" and "the stupid English aren't doing it so we must be right", now suddenly it's the people that are at fault for his idiotic idea.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Mark Drakeford has blamed 'selfish' behaviour by the public for forcing a fresh lockdown in Wales.

    The Welsh First Minister insisted his 17-day firebreak at the end of October had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9067273/Mark-Drakeford-blames-selfish-behaviour-fresh-lockdown-Wales.html

    So its not just that he is a complete moron then?

    Oh, wait a minute...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,362
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Where are you in the vaccine Q?

    An app to say when:

    https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/vaccine-queue-uk

    Interesting anecdotal communication by the medical bush telegraph. The new SE covid variety seems to progress more rapidly, so keep an eye on your sats if you get it.

    Interesting. Even though I'm a fair way down the priority list, I was surprised at how soon I might get the jab, if the assumptions are right. I hope they can achieve 1m a week (and get enough of the vaccines to do that).

    Based on your profile, there are between 9,926,645 and 12,305,865 people in front of you in the queue for a COVID vaccine across the UK.

    Given a vaccination rate of 1,000,000 a week and an uptake of 70.6%, you should expect to receive your vaccine between 25/02/2021 and 14/03/2021.
    Cheltenham Day One: 16th March.
    Has Cheltenham Festival 2021 been canned yet?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.
    Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

    In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class
    People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.
    Yes, a denunciation of Foucault is always guaranteed to appeal to the WWC.
    Tea break at medical school interviews. Am ensuring every candidate has a thorough knowledge of Foucalt and modern trends in Critical Theory. Indeed demonstrating asymmetric power dynamics again shortly...
    One of Foucault's seminal works is 'A History of Madness'. :smiley:
    Autobiography.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    I'm 28 and my "place in the queue" is between March and April apparently.

    That underlying medical condition is finally paying off!

    I'm 59 and on their assumptions not until June.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898
    edited December 2020

    The calculator which @Foxy pointed us to assumes that the take-up rate of the vaccine will be the same as that of the flu jab (70.6%). That strikes me as unlikely, I expect it to be higher. Also it assumes the government target of 1m a week is met (and met consistently), which is probably optimistic. So don't pencil your expected jab date in the diary quite yet.

    I think we'll be exceeding 1 million a week eventually.

    The bottleneck will be availability of vaccine.
  • MaxPB said:

    Mark Drakeford has blamed 'selfish' behaviour by the public for forcing a fresh lockdown in Wales.

    The Welsh First Minister insisted his 17-day firebreak at the end of October had worked but afterwards some people had acted like coronavirus was 'in the rear view mirror'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9067273/Mark-Drakeford-blames-selfish-behaviour-fresh-lockdown-Wales.html

    Wait, so he's blaming the people for taking him seriously when he and Labour presented this idea as a solution? He told them that "this will make it go away" and "the stupid English aren't doing it so we must be right", now suddenly it's the people that are at fault for his idiotic idea.
    All while he will be getting a pay rise.....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    dixiedean said:

    I see the Telegraph is promoting Tier 1 Isle of Wight as "Your next staycation destination".

    Have a pleasant holiday and kill other people's deadwood grannies rather than your own, win win.
    One-time friend of mine owned a pharmacy on Wight. Got into trouble with the NHS, basically because he thought he was cleverer than anyone else about the NHS contract. I was acting as an advisor to people in his position then and he asked for my help. Took a good look at his 'defence' and advised him to plead guilty and apologise. He refused my advice (and didn't pay me) defended himself, got fined the maximum and eventually struck off.
    If it were ever in doubt, I will always take the OKC advice :)
    Very wise! LOL. Must confess my advice, though always good, didn't always result in exoneration.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    The calculator which @Foxy pointed us to assumes that the take-up rate of the vaccine will be the same as that of the flu jab (70.6%). That strikes me as unlikely, I expect it to be higher. Also it assumes the government target of 1m a week is met (and met consistently), which is probably optimistic. So don't pencil your expected jab date in the diary quite yet.

    Indeed, though it does let you tweak both assumptions if you want.

    Seems to me a key question is how many people we need to vaccinate to sever the connection between cases and deaths. If we find in April that daily deaths are in the low double-digits despite 20k daily cases that might significantly change the trade-off for restrictions.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Who said 2021 could only be better?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/mullet-hairdo-back-dead-barmy-23185496.amp

    Continues to put fish at the forefront of the news.

    Fox Jr2 has a modern mullet. You have to be old enough not to remember them last time around. True of much fashion, I suppose...
    The DA; District Attorney or Ducks Arse, of my youth doesn't seem to have come back.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    edited December 2020
    DavidL said:

    The calculator which @Foxy pointed us to assumes that the take-up rate of the vaccine will be the same as that of the flu jab (70.6%). That strikes me as unlikely, I expect it to be higher. Also it assumes the government target of 1m a week is met (and met consistently), which is probably optimistic. So don't pencil your expected jab date in the diary quite yet.

    Agreed. OTOH, provided we can get enough vaccine I doubt we will top out at 1m. I suspect it will be higher.
    A lot depends on the AZ vaccine and when and who it gets approved for. If it's under 55s only I could see the government run weekend vaccination programmes for it in church halls with soldiers trained to give jabs doing it. I also wouldn't be surprised if it was done on a queue up at 8am basis rather than appointments. That way you maximise daily capacity so could easily get through a thousand people per day at one venue, ramp up to 1000 venues across the country and suddenly you're making huge headway into the under 55s which will bring the national R down basically 0.
This discussion has been closed.