For years Trump’s favourite term of abuse was “loser” – now he’s in danger of owning the brand – pol

System

For years Trump’s favourite term of abuse was “loser” – now he’s in danger of owning the brand – politicalbetting.com

Those who are older enough will remember GE1997 and one of the highlights of the coverage – a live broadcast from the Enfield Southgate constituency where prominent Tory cabinet minister Michael Portillo was defending an 18,000 majority. He lost and the manner and gracious way he responded to this disastrous outcome brought accolades from all sides.

Read the full story here

DavidL

first?

Wow, that's 2 in a row. I am going out to buy some lottery tickets.

IshmaelZ

Loser.

DavidL

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

IanB2

Third, like Trump

FrancisUrquhart

https://twitter.com/MandosBabyYoda/status/1339860511161274368?s=19

Nigelb

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.

Nigelb

IshmaelZ said:

Loser.

Bit of a harsh comment on David beating you to the first.

Nigelb

the biggest soul loser of all time..

How could someone soulless lose their soul ... or did you mean to type 'sore' ?

YBarddCwsc

Stuartinromford said:

Northern_Al said:

rottenborough said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Alistair said:

Casino_Royale said:

Alistair said:

I notice that after opening her speech about her lived experience that Truss then goes and says that lived experience isn't reliable.

Top work.

Is your memory and experience always consistently 100% reliable and objective?

It's a valuable perspective - one of a number of sources of evidence that should be considered and taken into account - but, it's not an ace card that can and must trump everything else.

If people start to accept it is then it will be open to manipulation.

Yes let's start with Truss's memory of her education in the 1980s.

Glad to see you embrace the limits of empiricism like, checks notes, Foucalt.

Tbf I thought Truss's point was that Foucault somehow damaged the philosophy of education through being taught to teachers as part of their PGCEs, not directly to school pupils, though I can't be bothered to check.

Yes. I think the general point is that social science/humanities teaching at uni level has been completely overtaken by Foucault/Derrida et al. mindset. My limit knowledge thru a friend who did an MA is that Foucault was certainly taught.

Quite right that Foucault/Derrida etc. should be taught at degree and above level on social sciences/humanities courses, along with many other important thinkers across the spectrum. I do hope that nobody on here, or in government, thinks Foucault should be cancelled.

But I have never come across these thinkers being taught on teacher training courses. I'm confident that the typical maths/science/geography teacher will never have come across Foucault.

In fact, I'm confident that any survey of teachers would demonstrate that the vast majority would know sod all about Foucault.

I'm a physics teacher and I know Foucault about him.

But you know about his pendulum, right? It hangs in the Science Museum.

Leon was a profound thinker, Michel not so much

DecrepiterJohnL

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

Trump should have been impeached on the evidence but the Senate is hyperpartisan these days. If Nixon were still with us, he'd have wondered about the injustice of it all.

Nigelb

YBarddCwsc said:

Stuartinromford said:

Northern_Al said:

rottenborough said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Alistair said:

Casino_Royale said:

Alistair said:

I notice that after opening her speech about her lived experience that Truss then goes and says that lived experience isn't reliable.

Top work.

Is your memory and experience always consistently 100% reliable and objective?

It's a valuable perspective - one of a number of sources of evidence that should be considered and taken into account - but, it's not an ace card that can and must trump everything else.

If people start to accept it is then it will be open to manipulation.

Yes let's start with Truss's memory of her education in the 1980s.

Glad to see you embrace the limits of empiricism like, checks notes, Foucalt.

Tbf I thought Truss's point was that Foucault somehow damaged the philosophy of education through being taught to teachers as part of their PGCEs, not directly to school pupils, though I can't be bothered to check.

Yes. I think the general point is that social science/humanities teaching at uni level has been completely overtaken by Foucault/Derrida et al. mindset. My limit knowledge thru a friend who did an MA is that Foucault was certainly taught.

Quite right that Foucault/Derrida etc. should be taught at degree and above level on social sciences/humanities courses, along with many other important thinkers across the spectrum. I do hope that nobody on here, or in government, thinks Foucault should be cancelled.

But I have never come across these thinkers being taught on teacher training courses. I'm confident that the typical maths/science/geography teacher will never have come across Foucault.

In fact, I'm confident that any survey of teachers would demonstrate that the vast majority would know sod all about Foucault.

I'm a physics teacher and I know Foucault about him.

But you know about his pendulum, right? It hangs in the Science Museum.

Leon was a profound thinker, Michel not so much

I don't know about that - he certainly plumbed the depths.

rkrkrk

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

Technically, he was impeached.

But what were the Democrats supposed to do?
You've got Trump and his officials *admitting* they withheld military aid to damage a political rival.

Ignoring that would have been more damaging to democracy.

Philip_Thompson

Nigelb said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.

The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.

Theuniondivvie

I bet that verge is going to be covered in bottles of golden liquid which is definitely not Irn Bru. Don’t open those fast food boxes whatever you do..

https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/status/1339864277767872512?s=21

Nigelb

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigelb said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.

The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.

It has always been politicised, and it's foolish to think otherwise.
It's a far from ideal remedy to a corrupt executive, bu it's the only one there is, outside of the ballot box. You can see what you want to in the evidence presented, but I find it very difficult to believe that it all should simply have been ignored.

Philip_Thompson

Nigelb said:

the biggest soul loser of all time..

How could someone soulless lose their soul ... or did you mean to type 'sore' ?

More Faust than Foucault.

Philip_Thompson

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

Trump should have been impeached on the evidence but the Senate is hyperpartisan these days. If Nixon were still with us, he'd have wondered about the injustice of it all.

Trump technically was impeached.

Nixon technically was not.

kle4

FrancisUrquhart said:

https://twitter.com/MandosBabyYoda/status/1339860511161274368?s=19

No spoilers no spoilers no spoilers no spoilers.

IanB2

Listening to Obama's memoirs on R4, he is talking about meeting Merkel and Brown early in his first term. Amazing how long Merkel has been in power, while we have enjoyed Brown, Cameron, May and the clown.

HYUFD

While Trump will certainly be remembered for bad manners it should also be remembered that his margin of defeat, 232 EC votes to 306 for Biden was far closer than the landslide defeats of 489 to 49 EC votes Carter received in 1980 or the 472 to 59 EC vote defeat Hoover suffered in 1932.

Trump is also the only losing Presidential candidate since Nixon in 1960 to also win both Florida and Ohio.

That means if he decides to run again in 2024 he will have a sizeable base of support to do so still and he is already by far the preferred choice of Republican voters for the 2024 GOP nomination

https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1338678411586228225?s=20

Theuniondivvie

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigelb said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.

The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.

If Trump had committed high crimes and misdemeanours, why should it matter what Dems feel about him? Pretty sure that their loathing of Trump wasn’t any greater than that of Dems towards Nixon.

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

swing_voter

it will be interesting to see what Trump's legacy will be without loser and COVID being in the same breath, I cant think of one achievement of his that will stand the test of time, at least his predecessor had Obama-care, and the one before a couple of wars & 9/11 under his belt.

kle4

RobD said:

Andy_JS said:

Also it doesn't take a lot of effort to buy a bag of apples and eat them. Another myth: about healthy food being "difficult to prepare". Patronising nonsense again.

It is easier to microwave a ready meal than cook some vegetables yourself though. A diet of apples doesn't sound all that appetizing.

That is true, but it really is on me that I dont eat healthy, not prevalence of fast food, adverts or even time. Theres plenty lazier than me and people not being taught to cook as a core skill is key (though when I do cook it's mostly cakes) but it really is an area where the biggest factor is personal responsibility. That people dont prioritise it is understandable, I sure dont, but its usually not about ignorance nor impossibility.

Nigelb said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

williamglenn said:

Andrew Lewer sacked for leaking to Guido Fawkes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9065751/Ministerial-aide-sacked-probe-sharing-letter-urging-Tories-stop-leaking.html

From the Mail link:
It is understood the Chief Whip was so concerned by the possibility his own letter would leak that he had it formatted in a way that made each copy individually identifiable.

The implication here is that Guido leaked the leaked letter back to the government. Whether or not that actually happened, it will be a further deterrent.

I was more amused by this from the Mail link.
‘If you violate any aspect of the Ministerial Code you will be removed from your position with immediate effect.”...

Now that is news. Or an obvious lie.

Not a lie for those lower on the greasy pole. You have to rise higher before you are useful enough to defend when you violate the code.

RochdalePioneers said:

MarqueeMark said:

malcolmg said:

Foxy said:

I see we reached "let them eat fillet" in the overnight discussion of how the poor should eat....

The poor always get tea and sympathy on here.

But no milk.

Or sugar.

Sympathy only goes so far....

My ex (we have a 19 year old son) is always desperate for money. Because I am a sucker and I love my son I have always gone above and beyond maintenance - I've literally taken out loans for her in the past and have chucked bits of cash at her when she needs it. And she does need it - a few years of dramatic illness has left her half blind, barely mobile and unable to work. But, as the boy is effectively doing a gap year I gave £5k to keep him going before he starts uni in 2021, money she has had.

So I have been sympathetic. And generous. Even after she twice tried to blackmail me for more (I had the police on her for one of them and just called her bluff on the other). But here and now I am newly self employed with a major house move imminent and cash is entertainingly tight at times, so the bank of ex is closed down.

Have politely but increasingly firmly said no to recent requests for cash. So you can imagine my bemusement when the boy advised that his mum was incommunicado for a bit. The same night she had asked for more cash (as "I have no money I owe him money and its Christmas") she had hired a taxi to shuttle her down to the all night garage to buy fags, had left the phone in the taxi which, when it was called back, had of course not been found.

Tea and sympathy only go so far. So many people are in dire straights through circumstance and the system has been explicitly designed to be as punitive as possible to them. Then again, sometimes people are just malingering fucks.

Money and family is one stressful quagmire. The last few years I've found myself the highest earning working age person in my extended family on 33k, with several others, with kids and mortgages, struggling to pay for food for themselves. Thank christ my father who'd also needed money in retirement won an amount on a lottery scratch card.

Much sympathy to all those struggling out there, and those trying to help.

DecrepiterJohnL

Philip_Thompson said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

Trump should have been impeached on the evidence but the Senate is hyperpartisan these days. If Nixon were still with us, he'd have wondered about the injustice of it all.

Trump technically was impeached.

Nixon technically was not.

Speaking of the 1970s, older PBers will be thanking Mr Heath for their £10 Christmas bonus.

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/1339873155792449536?s=20

Theuniondivvie

IanB2 said:

Listening to Obama's memoirs on R4, he is talking about meeting Merkel and Brown early in his first term. Amazing how long Merkel has been in power, while we have enjoyed Brown, Cameron, May and the clown.

For some of us, Brown is always with us, constantly making interventions all over the shop 🙁

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1339873080576012288?s=20

eek

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

https://twitter.com/MandosBabyYoda/status/1339860511161274368?s=19

No spoilers no spoilers no spoilers no spoilers.

Turn the internet off until you've watched it.

kle4

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

I think winning has become so important that the spirit of the rules no longer matters, and justifies changing the rules for self advantage in their eyes. With Trump, and the pretence of simply engaging in available challenge despite having no legitimate grounds to make so many, they are but one step away from those places where theres violence at an election as it really will be life and death if you lose. Hopefully they can revert to type now rather than ramp it up, but at state level I doubt it, and it becomes an escalating thing with the sides.

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1339868865199820800?s=20

kle4

eek said:

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

https://twitter.com/MandosBabyYoda/status/1339860511161274368?s=19

No spoilers no spoilers no spoilers no spoilers.

Turn the internet off until you've watched it.

I actually dont mind in truth. On star wars I like it but dont get super invested by it. That's why i can admit to thinking the criticisms of the prequel trilogy are overblown.

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1339770665168228354?s=20

Alistair

In the interests of full disclosure I have exited the Georgia Senate Market (at a modest 10% profit). The Georgia Covid numbers are not as bad as I thought they were going to be and as a result Leoffler's Covid-denial will not be as large a factor as I thought.

Dura_Ace

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1339868865199820800?s=20

Yeah, I'll take a lecture on 'personal responsibility' from fucking Johnson.

Philip_Thompson

Theuniondivvie said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigelb said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.

The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.

If Trump had committed high crimes and misdemeanours, why should it matter what Dems feel about him? Pretty sure that their loathing of Trump wasn’t any greater than that of Dems towards Nixon.

Boy who cried wolf syndrome.

Yes there was a wolf in the end, but Dem voters were banging on about impeachment since November 2016 before Trump was even inaugurated.

Trump was such a polarising figure that it didn't matter if he committed high crimes and misdemeanors or not - Dems wanted him impeached regardless of the facts, Republicans wanted him acquitted regardless of them.

Alistair

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

Yes he was.

kle4

IanB2 said:

Listening to Obama's memoirs on R4, he is talking about meeting Merkel and Brown early in his first term. Amazing how long Merkel has been in power, while we have enjoyed Brown, Cameron, May and the clown.

Lasting 10 years in a genuine democracy is very impressive. Even if your party is dominant not being ousted in that time is not easy. Lasting as long as she has well beyond that is a huge achievement

DecrepiterJohnL

Dura_Ace said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1339868865199820800?s=20

Yeah, I'll take a lecture on 'personal responsibility' from fucking Johnson.

Every journalist in Britain will be printing out the tiers and Christmas bubble guidelines ready to check against Boris's guest list at Chequers.

eek

kle4 said:

eek said:

kle4 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

https://twitter.com/MandosBabyYoda/status/1339860511161274368?s=19

No spoilers no spoilers no spoilers no spoilers.

Turn the internet off until you've watched it.

I actually dont mind in truth. On star wars I like it but dont get super invested by it. That's why i can admit to thinking the criticisms of the prequel trilogy are overblown.

I suspect you will regret being spoilt with this episode so do what you can to avoid any spoilers..

Sandpit

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Nigelb

Theuniondivvie said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigelb said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.

The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.

If Trump had committed high crimes and misdemeanours, why should it matter what Dems feel about him? Pretty sure that their loathing of Trump wasn’t any greater than that of Dems towards Nixon.

Back in the day, Reagan spoke of Watergate in the same dismissive way that DavidL does of Trump's impeachment.

I think perhaps the difference is that Watergate taught the crooks to keep their mouths shut when caught.

Philip_Thompson

rkrkrk said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

Technically, he was impeached.

But what were the Democrats supposed to do?
You've got Trump and his officials *admitting* they withheld military aid to damage a political rival.

Ignoring that would have been more damaging to democracy.

I think it was smart politics for the Democrats to impeach him over this too. It made it clear to everyone that Trump was trying to build a fake Hunter Biden nonsense attack for the General Election.

Then lo and behold weeks before the General Election all Trumpists wanted to talk about was Hunter Biden. Funny that!

But the Hunter Biden nonsense gained no traction in the election. Why? I think because of the impeachment. It was old news, pre pandemic and seemed a stupid thing to be bringing back up and all played out already.

If this hadn't all gotten aired out during the impeachment then could the Hunter Biden nonsense have gained more traction during the election?

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

F1: reports, but no confirmation yet, it seems, that Perez will get Albon's seat.

Nigelb

kle4 said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

I think winning has become so important that the spirit of the rules no longer matters, and justifies changing the rules for self advantage in their eyes. With Trump, and the pretence of simply engaging in available challenge despite having no legitimate grounds to make so many, they are but one step away from those places where theres violence at an election as it really will be life and death if you lose. Hopefully they can revert to type now rather than ramp it up, but at state level I doubt it, and it becomes an escalating thing with the sides.

Not much sign of that so far.
For example:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/12/mitch-mcconnell-lame-duck-judges.html

DecrepiterJohnL

Philip_Thompson said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigelb said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.

The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.

If Trump had committed high crimes and misdemeanours, why should it matter what Dems feel about him? Pretty sure that their loathing of Trump wasn’t any greater than that of Dems towards Nixon.

Boy who cried wolf syndrome.

Yes there was a wolf in the end, but Dem voters were banging on about impeachment since November 2016 before Trump was even inaugurated.

Trump was such a polarising figure that it didn't matter if he committed high crimes and misdemeanors or not - Dems wanted him impeached regardless of the facts, Republicans wanted him acquitted regardless of them.

Before Trump was even inaugurated, everyone knew about Russian interference in the election and Trump's likely complicity, with Trump even addressing Russian hackers in a televised speech (whether or not he was joking). It's not as if it was a secret before the Mueller Report.

Philip_Thompson

Dura_Ace said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1339868865199820800?s=20

Yeah, I'll take a lecture on 'personal responsibility' from fucking Johnson.

I don't think you're his type.

MattW

IanB2 said:

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

eek said:

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

Charles said:

Pagan2 said:

HYUFD said:

rcs1000 said:

HYUFD said:

Pagan2 said:

MaxPB said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

MaxPB said:

Pagan2 said:

Crabbie said:

Pagan2 said:

Mexicanpete said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Mexicanpete said:

MaxPB said:

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

The idea that because one or two people went to a comprehensive school and subsequently did ok for themselves means that they're all world-class educational establishments that honour every child is possibly one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen on this website.

Sure: but I'm the same age as Truss and went to a variety of comprehensive schools and all our lessons except one were about, you know, reading, writing, maths, geography, etc. The other one was "PSE" - or personal and social education - and was just one period a week.

PSE was a fairly random bunch of (frankly) shit. The local police would come in and give a talk, for example. And "sex education" ("what do you want to know, miss?") too. In my last school it taught by a bored and elderly teacher who seemed completely disinterested in teaching and let us all chat and generally ignore him.

Liz Truss is guilty of creating a strawman. And I speak as someone who is normally a fan of her.

That was then, one of my younger cousins is completely infected with "intersectionalism" and all kinds of other bullshit about how she's a victim because she's female and Asian and that she might be transgender, but probably isn't.

Schooling is the one reason my wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Zurich even if it is extremely dull. We don't want to put any kids we have through this liberal wanky school system where activist charities encourage teachers to tell children they are 64 different genders. The whole Anglosphere seems to be infected with this kind of bullshit. I fear that this Tory government will make a valiant last stand here but as soon as Labour get in it's going to get a lot worse.

My children are both in their early twenties. Your analysis was not their experience in a Roman Catholic Comprehensive school.

Have you been reading Guido and The Daily Mail again?

He's a bit like Casino Royale sometimes, nearly always very sensible but occasionally go off the ledge.

We need to bring them back with some common ground.

Grapes on pizza, yuck yuck yuck, am I right?

I have no dog in the fruit on pizza race.

Is there such a thing as a pizza without fruit don't they all have tomato sauce on them and tomato is a fruit

Pizza Bianco with Gorgonzola, Parma ham, and walnuts.

Sounds like posh food and plebs like me dont get to eat that we order at domino's

Eh, I grew up in one of London's most violent estates (so much so that we got relocated and the council shut it down), and I have no need to ever order domino's or anything so awful. Life is what you make of it, 11 year old me on the estate could never have imagined going to the opera but it's one of the things I've missed this year.

Each to their own, you keep doing you Max

I think the assumption that the working classes are this sea of lumpen types who sit around eating McDonalds and think Nandos is the height of culture bothers me. Most of my friends are from working class backgrounds as I went to a state school and a pretty ordinary university, it's not as bleak as that.

My experience is different probably because I come from an era when few still went to university. Most of my working class friends are therefore of my age and still on crap wages and just don't have the chance to expose themselves to the finer things in life due to money. Not saying they couldn't buy the ingredients and home make it but they aren't likely to sample it in a restaurant as if they eat out it will be wetherspoons, hungry horse, nando's etc because a 40£ a head meal just isn't cost effective for them. Plenty I know aren't any less intelligent than many here. They merely didn't get the chance to go to university or like me had no desire too and have later in life found that limits them in terms of earning power. I would estimate the average wage of those friends at about 33k and that doesnt go so far in the south east

The UK median annual salary is £31,461 so £33k is actually fractionally better than average
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2020

These people are (a) living in the South East (where incomes are higher) and (b) at the peak of their earning power.

Even in the South East the median salary is only £613 a week ie £31,876 a year.

Only in London where average earnings are £736 a week does the median salary even top £35,000 at £38,272 a year.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2019#:~:text=In April 2019, London topped,the UK (£585).

Doesnt change the fact that living costs more in the south east where a one bedroom flat will cost you the best part of 1000 a month. 33k in say slough is a lot less than 33k in grimsby

I’d argue that £33k in Slough = £33k in Grimsby (although it may buy less).

Still what do I know

A rapid visit to Rightmove and the top two for rent in Grimsby are a four-bed detached for £1250 pcm and a two-bed terrace for £485. In Slough the same money throws up flats - hunting about for a house, a four-bed detached is £2,295 and a two-bed terrace £1300. So hugely more. Looking at one bed flats, Slough's are around £900 pcm whereas in Grimsby it's about £425.

Renting property in Slough is therefore about twice as expensive, and someone on the same salary is going to have a lot less money to spend left over.

That Grimsby 4 bed says £1100 pcm on the brochure.

Interesting that it is the only one listed. Under "unforeseen consequences", it tells you something what mandating a 6 month notice period for eviction does to market availability, and chances to rent for people needing houses.

Elsewhere I'm reading the tales of someone trying to rent a 3 bedroom property on the IoW at the moment - everything is being taken before people even get to see where it is let alone inside the property.

The sale market has been similar, with properties snapped up unseen.

The island's problem has always been employment. As soon as you don't need to work, or have a job where you can work remotely, it becomes a superb place to live. The number of people (who think they are) in the latter category has just exploded.

I find that slightly strange, as the expectation is that values may tank a little come the end of the current schemes in March.

The stamp duty holiday has certainly prompted a lot of people to put long pondered plans into action. Anecdotally I know of one couple in their late 60s who have moved into smaller accommodation, and one London couple who have sold up and bought a farm in Wales, both made up their minds to go now because of the holiday. When stamp duty returns the market will be quiet, I guess - although the longer term economic damage from Covid may bring more distressed sales to the market. Edit/ And, remembering, i also know another couple who now spend much of the year in Spain, about to put their London house up for sale and buy a flat, also rushing because of the holiday

The whole thing is a touch bizarre and perhaps demonstrates why the Tories need their new Purple Wall seats for a connection with all the country. Up here the Stamp Duty holiday offers little benefit to the average housemover in the Purple Wall.

eg A trad 3 bed semi in say the Surbiton area may attract 20k+ of Stamp Duty on a price of 600k-650k; the equivalent in my neck of the woods will attract about £1000 or less on a price of 160k to 200k.

They need to get beyond the Southern Squint which undermines some of their policies.

Theuniondivvie

Dura_Ace said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1339868865199820800?s=20

Yeah, I'll take a lecture on 'personal responsibility' from fucking Johnson.

Tbf BJ will be minimising contact with quite close members of his family, but then plus ça change.

Gallowgate

A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

kinabalu

Plus he totally fluked 2016 and even that was with Putin's help. Joke figure. Means nothing. Stands for nothing. Just a warning of what can happen if a critical mass of voters get morally lax and intellectually lazy. I've made a big, life changing decision and it's only right and proper that I announce it here before I even tell my mum. I have cancelled Donald Trump and I'm moving on - apart from the occasional post like this one on the (I predict) rapidly diminishing number of threads where he's the topic. He's going to fade away now and what a relief it will be. Ok, other grisly figures will no doubt emerge to pitch for his hardcore fanbase, but this will not detract from the massive positive of not having to constantly see or hear or read about him. For over 4 years almost every single day has had this toxic bozo prominent in the news. "What did Trump say?" being the BBC template, followed by a regurgitation of whatever idiocy or hate-speech or lying bullshit he had chosen to emit that day. No longer, least not here in the UK. I often reach for the words of Martin Luther King on a Friday morning and I do so without hesitation here. Free at last, free at last.

Philip_Thompson

I've not watched The Mandalorian yet. Is it family friendly?

Thinking of watching it over the Christmas holidays with my children if it is. Watched the original trilogy with them in the summer, it didn't hold the four year olds attention but the six year old really liked Yoda and has seen pictures of 'baby Yoda' and says 'baby Yoda' is "so cute".

Dura_Ace

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Nature's perfect tory:



He's fucking stoked on Liz Surgical-Support's new Mexican trade deal.

MaxPB

Gallowgate said:

A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.

RochdalePioneers

Theuniondivvie said:

I bet that verge is going to be covered in bottles of golden liquid which is definitely not Irn Bru. Don’t open those fast food boxes whatever you do..

https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/status/1339864277767872512?s=21

No deal is here. We may fudge a last second deal which gets ratified at some later point, but no deal is already in effect.

The massive queues are as traffic ramps up to avoid tariffs. This week is demonstrating to the country what the industry already knew and has been highlighting - that customs checks and the current UK / EU traffic are simply incompatible.

As soon as we tip into 2021 the number of vehicles will drop significantly with the processing time per truck increasing significantly. The awkward problem being that we need the stuff that comes on trucks, but as soon as we try and ship it the border comes to a stop. If we don't trade the border delays may only be in single digit hours as opposed to the days it will be otherwise.

Philip_Thompson

MaxPB said:

Gallowgate said:

A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.

There's different types of coal though isn't there?

Coal for burning absolutely is antiquated.

Coal for steel is different and still needed though isn't it?

No idea which this one is but there's a future usage I believe for the right types of coal even in a net zero future.

alex_

Philip_Thompson said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

Trump should have been impeached on the evidence but the Senate is hyperpartisan these days. If Nixon were still with us, he'd have wondered about the injustice of it all.

Trump technically was impeached.

Nixon technically was not.

There’s no “technically” about it. He was impeached. Full stop. Impeachment is just the referring by the House to the Senate for trial.

He wasn’t convicted.

MattW

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1339873080576012288?s=20

Any idea what this is about, or are they just fishing for gullibles?

The current rule in England is that 6 months notice is required.

Is this different in Scotland and/or Wales and/or NI?

The speakers seem to be a bloke from the Tribune, a USA lawyer, and a Welsh individual.

The Eviction Resistance blog was last updated in 2016.

HYUFD

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class

Gallowgate

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Gallowgate said:

A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.

There's different types of coal though isn't there?

Coal for burning absolutely is antiquated.

Coal for steel is different and still needed though isn't it?

No idea which this one is but there's a future usage I believe for the right types of coal even in a net zero future.

Yes. This is "high quality North East coal" (their marketing words) for use in making cement and steel, apparently.

The fireclay will be used for making bricks.

contrarian

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Gallowgate said:

A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.

There's different types of coal though isn't there?

Coal for burning absolutely is antiquated.

Coal for steel is different and still needed though isn't it?

No idea which this one is but there's a future usage I believe for the right types of coal even in a net zero future.

As I understand it the coal is to be used to make steel for.....er.......windfarms.

Its almost as if Maoist 20-year plans have horrendous unforeseen downsides.

contrarian

Dura_Ace said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1339868865199820800?s=20

Yeah, I'll take a lecture on 'personal responsibility' from fucking Johnson.

Wow, we agree on stuff

DecrepiterJohnL

Nigelb said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Nigelb said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

This conservative line that Trump's impeachment was an abuse of democracy is absurd.
It's a constitutionally mandated process that was eminently justified.

The issue is that it seems abundantly clear that Trump has committed 'high crimes and misdemeanors' and that he was impeached because the Democrats hate him and that he was acquitted because Republicans loved/feared him.

The process may be constitutionally mandated but it has been completed degraded and discredited by politicisation.

If Trump had committed high crimes and misdemeanours, why should it matter what Dems feel about him? Pretty sure that their loathing of Trump wasn’t any greater than that of Dems towards Nixon.

Back in the day, Reagan spoke of Watergate in the same dismissive way that DavidL does of Trump's impeachment.

I think perhaps the difference is that Watergate taught the crooks to keep their mouths shut when caught.

Reagan got away with worse than Watergate, conspiring with Iran to delay the hostages' release, and the Iran-Contra affair.

IanB2

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class

Is that you in the photo upthread?

Stocky

kinabalu said:

Plus he totally fluked 2016 and even that was with Putin's help. Joke figure. Means nothing. Stands for nothing. Just a warning of what can happen if a critical mass of voters get morally lax and intellectually lazy. I've made a big, life changing decision and it's only right and proper that I announce it here before I even tell my mum. I have cancelled Donald Trump and I'm moving on - apart from the occasional post like this one on the (I predict) rapidly diminishing number of threads where he's the topic. He's going to fade away now and what a relief it will be. Ok, other grisly figures will no doubt emerge to pitch for his hardcore fanbase, but this will not detract from the massive positive of not having to constantly see or hear or read about him. For over 4 years almost every single day has had this toxic bozo prominent in the news. "What did Trump say?" being the BBC template, followed by a regurgitation of whatever idiocy or hate-speech or lying bullshit he had chosen to emit that day. No longer, least not here in the UK. I often reach for the words of Martin Luther King on a Friday morning and I do so without hesitation here. Free at last, free at last.

I should wait until he`s out of the White House.

contrarian

Stocky said:

kinabalu said:

Plus he totally fluked 2016 and even that was with Putin's help. Joke figure. Means nothing. Stands for nothing. Just a warning of what can happen if a critical mass of voters get morally lax and intellectually lazy. I've made a big, life changing decision and it's only right and proper that I announce it here before I even tell my mum. I have cancelled Donald Trump and I'm moving on - apart from the occasional post like this one on the (I predict) rapidly diminishing number of threads where he's the topic. He's going to fade away now and what a relief it will be. Ok, other grisly figures will no doubt emerge to pitch for his hardcore fanbase, but this will not detract from the massive positive of not having to constantly see or hear or read about him. For over 4 years almost every single day has had this toxic bozo prominent in the news. "What did Trump say?" being the BBC template, followed by a regurgitation of whatever idiocy or hate-speech or lying bullshit he had chosen to emit that day. No longer, least not here in the UK. I often reach for the words of Martin Luther King on a Friday morning and I do so without hesitation here. Free at last, free at last.

I should wait until he`s out of the White House.

I thought 'free at last' was the funniest line of a genuinely amusing post.

CorrectHorseBattery

Good morning good people of PB!

eek

Philip_Thompson said:

I've not watched The Mandalorian yet. Is it family friendly?

Thinking of watching it over the Christmas holidays with my children if it is. Watched the original trilogy with them in the summer, it didn't hold the four year olds attention but the six year old really liked Yoda and has seen pictures of 'baby Yoda' and says 'baby Yoda' is "so cute".

I wouldn't recommend it for six year olds - a bit to violent

Sandpit

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class

People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

Quincel

BETTING TIP

You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

eek

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

F1: reports, but no confirmation yet, it seems, that Perez will get Albon's seat.

Joe Saward said that yesterday - it's a 1 year deal with Albon retained as test driver ready for 2022.

Alistair

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class

2020


2012

Philip_Thompson

alex_ said:

Philip_Thompson said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

In fairness he wasn't impeached. That was an absurd effort by the Democrats that did them and US democracy no good whatsoever.

Both of the major parties really need to start thinking of US democracy as something to be nurtured rather than manipulated and abused. If they don't the system is going to become ever more unstable.

Trump should have been impeached on the evidence but the Senate is hyperpartisan these days. If Nixon were still with us, he'd have wondered about the injustice of it all.

Trump technically was impeached.

Nixon technically was not.

There’s no “technically” about it. He was impeached. Full stop. Impeachment is just the referring by the House to the Senate for trial.

He wasn’t convicted.

That's what technically means. He was impeached.

But people (mistakenly) use the term to mean removed from office. That didn't happen. It has never happened via the impeachment process.

DecrepiterJohnL

Quincel said:

BETTING TIP

You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

I've seen Youtube adverts for Rose (including this morning) and I imagine he will be using other social media platforms as well.

Philip_Thompson

eek said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I've not watched The Mandalorian yet. Is it family friendly?

Thinking of watching it over the Christmas holidays with my children if it is. Watched the original trilogy with them in the summer, it didn't hold the four year olds attention but the six year old really liked Yoda and has seen pictures of 'baby Yoda' and says 'baby Yoda' is "so cute".

I wouldn't recommend it for six year olds - a bit to violent

Thanks.

I didn't feel the originally trilogy was too violent for them but felt it best to check on this.

Phil

Philip_Thompson said:

I've not watched The Mandalorian yet. Is it family friendly?

Thinking of watching it over the Christmas holidays with my children if it is. Watched the original trilogy with them in the summer, it didn't hold the four year olds attention but the six year old really liked Yoda and has seen pictures of 'baby Yoda' and says 'baby Yoda' is "so cute".

It’s Star Wars content. So /lots/ of on-screen violence & death, (shooting, occasional fist fights etc etc) but absolutely no blood, guts or suffering. The body count is off the scale, but the impact of that violence is negligible. In this sense it’s entirely family friendly - there’s nothing to provoke outrage or disgust.

But I think there’s a conversation to be had about the normalisation of the direct application of violence as a solution to problems & the consequences that usually come along with that in the real world, but are completely missing from programs like the Mandalorian.

Quincel

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Quincel said:

BETTING TIP

You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

I've seen Youtube adverts for Rose (including this morning) and I imagine he will be using other social media platforms as well.

Yes, anecdote suggests he's spending quite heavily on that. No indication he has any voters supporting him though.

As the old joke goes, he's within the margin of error in the latest poll. Of Khan? Of Bailey? No, of having any support at all.

contrarian

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class

People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

Anyone sensible and ambitious who can see what awaits Bozo in 2021 would be setting themselves up as an alternative right now. It will be extremely ugly.

Sandpit

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

F1: reports, but no confirmation yet, it seems, that Perez will get Albon's seat.

Joe Saward said that yesterday - it's a 1 year deal with Albon retained as test driver ready for 2022.

They’re expecting it to be officially announced today, but it’s apparently been paddock gossip since Bahrain. Uncle Joe is always worth following, one of few old-school F1 hacks left following the circus. He knows absolutely everyone!

RochdalePioneers

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

F1: reports, but no confirmation yet, it seems, that Perez will get Albon's seat.

Joe Saward said that yesterday - it's a 1 year deal with Albon retained as test driver ready for 2022.

Frankly thats probably what Albon needs. He has shown plenty of brilliance this season - some fantastic round the outside overtakes. But he hasn't been consistent - so a season of testing hopefully will make him a better driver.

No_Offence_Alan

kle4 said:

IanB2 said:

Listening to Obama's memoirs on R4, he is talking about meeting Merkel and Brown early in his first term. Amazing how long Merkel has been in power, while we have enjoyed Brown, Cameron, May and the clown.

Lasting 10 years in a genuine democracy is very impressive. Even if your party is dominant not being ousted in that time is not easy. Lasting as long as she has well beyond that is a huge achievement

I wish she was staying on.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. eek, I remember hearing somewhere that Perez had something lined up for 2022.

Alistair

Alistair said:

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class

2020


2012

And crunching the 2012 Exit poll numbers Trump actually did a point worse than romeny with <100k voters, within the level of rounding errors. So lets call it exactly the same to be generous to him.

Philip_Thompson

contrarian said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Gallowgate said:

A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.

There's different types of coal though isn't there?

Coal for burning absolutely is antiquated.

Coal for steel is different and still needed though isn't it?

No idea which this one is but there's a future usage I believe for the right types of coal even in a net zero future.

As I understand it the coal is to be used to make steel for.....er.......windfarms.

Its almost as if Maoist 20-year plans have horrendous unforeseen downsides.

What's wrong with that in your eyes? 🤔

Producing steel for long term energy production is a far superior usage of coal than merely burning it for electricity.

contrarian

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13511571/angela-merkel-backlash-coronavirus-vaccine-germany/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=sunpoliticstwitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1608253326

Revenge for all those towels on the sunbeds....??

Alistair

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class

People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

It is true, whenever I am down the pub I'm always hearing fellow drinkers complaining about the influence of Foucault on the education system in the 1980s. People talk of nothing else.

theProle

MaxPB said:

Gallowgate said:

A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.

If this planning is refused, the same coal will be burnt - it will just be mined elsewhere, probably with worse conditions for the workers. Decent grade coking coal is essential for steel production.

The environmental consequences of refusing planning will just be to shift the mining (and possibly the consumption) to places with lower environmental standards.

As a side note, the heritage railway movement is very keen for this one to go ahead - we use a tiny annual tonnage of coal, but finding high quality lump coal suitable for railway engines is getting increasingly difficult, and these sort of UK operations are often sympathetic to running a small batch at an appropriate lump size for us to use.

HYUFD

Alistair said:

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1339866840550567937?s=20

Wow! That’s some change in a few short years.

Much as with Trump, Boris' core vote comes from white voters without a degree.

In 2015 Cameron won graduates as did Romney in 2012, there has been a sizeable shift in both the Tory and GOP coalitions from the upper middle class to the white working class

2020


2012

In 2012 Romney won 52% of voters earning $200 000 - $249 999 and Romney won 55% of voters earning over $250 000.

In 2020 Trump could only tie Biden with voters earning over $200 000 at 44% each.

In 2012 Romney won 51% of graduates but only 48% of high school only graduates and just 35% of non high school graduates.

In 2020 Trump won just 47% of graduates but won 54% of those with only a high school or less education and Trump won only 48% of white college graduates but Trump won 67% of whites with no college degree.

So my point was absolutely right, the GOP coalition has shifted to white voters without a college degree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election

Gallowgate

HYUFD said:

So my point was absolutely right.

Dura_Ace

Sandpit said:

People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

They have literally never heard of her.

Philip_Thompson

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

I bet that verge is going to be covered in bottles of golden liquid which is definitely not Irn Bru. Don’t open those fast food boxes whatever you do..

https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/status/1339864277767872512?s=21

No deal is here. We may fudge a last second deal which gets ratified at some later point, but no deal is already in effect.

The massive queues are as traffic ramps up to avoid tariffs. This week is demonstrating to the country what the industry already knew and has been highlighting - that customs checks and the current UK / EU traffic are simply incompatible.

As soon as we tip into 2021 the number of vehicles will drop significantly with the processing time per truck increasing significantly. The awkward problem being that we need the stuff that comes on trucks, but as soon as we try and ship it the border comes to a stop. If we don't trade the border delays may only be in single digit hours as opposed to the days it will be otherwise.

So we will adapt. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Life finds a way to adapt.

I wonder if regional inequality might be addressed if trade no longer occurs narrowly through a South East tunnel and is diversified across ports like Liverpool, Portsmouth etc too.

Sandpit

Had Australian steak for lunch in the end, and very nice it was too.

Gallowgate

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

I bet that verge is going to be covered in bottles of golden liquid which is definitely not Irn Bru. Don’t open those fast food boxes whatever you do..

https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/status/1339864277767872512?s=21

No deal is here. We may fudge a last second deal which gets ratified at some later point, but no deal is already in effect.

The massive queues are as traffic ramps up to avoid tariffs. This week is demonstrating to the country what the industry already knew and has been highlighting - that customs checks and the current UK / EU traffic are simply incompatible.

As soon as we tip into 2021 the number of vehicles will drop significantly with the processing time per truck increasing significantly. The awkward problem being that we need the stuff that comes on trucks, but as soon as we try and ship it the border comes to a stop. If we don't trade the border delays may only be in single digit hours as opposed to the days it will be otherwise.

So we will adapt. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Life finds a way to adapt.

I wonder if regional inequality might be addressed if trade no longer occurs narrowly through a South East tunnel and is diversified across ports like Liverpool, Portsmouth etc too.

Regional inequality reduced by everyone being poorer, just the South East being proportionally more poorer?

I thought you guys opposed such things. Socialism and all that.

Barnesian

kinabalu said:

Plus he totally fluked 2016 and even that was with Putin's help. Joke figure. Means nothing. Stands for nothing. Just a warning of what can happen if a critical mass of voters get morally lax and intellectually lazy. I've made a big, life changing decision and it's only right and proper that I announce it here before I even tell my mum. I have cancelled Donald Trump and I'm moving on - apart from the occasional post like this one on the (I predict) rapidly diminishing number of threads where he's the topic. He's going to fade away now and what a relief it will be. Ok, other grisly figures will no doubt emerge to pitch for his hardcore fanbase, but this will not detract from the massive positive of not having to constantly see or hear or read about him. For over 4 years almost every single day has had this toxic bozo prominent in the news. "What did Trump say?" being the BBC template, followed by a regurgitation of whatever idiocy or hate-speech or lying bullshit he had chosen to emit that day. No longer, least not here in the UK. I often reach for the words of Martin Luther King on a Friday morning and I do so without hesitation here. Free at last, free at last.

I just replied "loser" on his twitter feed. I hope to be blocked.

Philip_Thompson

Gallowgate said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

I bet that verge is going to be covered in bottles of golden liquid which is definitely not Irn Bru. Don’t open those fast food boxes whatever you do..

https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/status/1339864277767872512?s=21

No deal is here. We may fudge a last second deal which gets ratified at some later point, but no deal is already in effect.

The massive queues are as traffic ramps up to avoid tariffs. This week is demonstrating to the country what the industry already knew and has been highlighting - that customs checks and the current UK / EU traffic are simply incompatible.

As soon as we tip into 2021 the number of vehicles will drop significantly with the processing time per truck increasing significantly. The awkward problem being that we need the stuff that comes on trucks, but as soon as we try and ship it the border comes to a stop. If we don't trade the border delays may only be in single digit hours as opposed to the days it will be otherwise.

So we will adapt. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Life finds a way to adapt.

I wonder if regional inequality might be addressed if trade no longer occurs narrowly through a South East tunnel and is diversified across ports like Liverpool, Portsmouth etc too.

Regional inequality reduced by everyone being poorer, just the South East being proportionally more poorer?

I thought you guys opposed such things. Socialism and all that.

If we lower the Common External Tariff so that we aren't protecting trade with little Europe over the global trade then we can improve our livelihoods not lower them.

Gallowgate

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

People with whom Liz Truss’s speech yesterday will have gone down well, no matter what the woke commentariat of Islington think of it.

They have literally never heard of her.

I was walking through Blyth Asda yesterday and the most beautiful thing happened. Everyone in the shop stopped what they were doing and started clapping for Liz Truss. It was a magical moment.

Slackbladder

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. eek, I remember hearing somewhere that Perez had something lined up for 2022.

Rumours are it's with Williams. So Perez to Williams in 2022, Russell to Merc, Bottas out. Gives a new seat for Red Bull for the new Japanse driver if he's good enough, or Albon to come back if he's heads on right (or gasly to then step up).

Gallowgate

Philip_Thompson said:

Gallowgate said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Theuniondivvie said:

I bet that verge is going to be covered in bottles of golden liquid which is definitely not Irn Bru. Don’t open those fast food boxes whatever you do..

https://twitter.com/jimmfelton/status/1339864277767872512?s=21

No deal is here. We may fudge a last second deal which gets ratified at some later point, but no deal is already in effect.

The massive queues are as traffic ramps up to avoid tariffs. This week is demonstrating to the country what the industry already knew and has been highlighting - that customs checks and the current UK / EU traffic are simply incompatible.

As soon as we tip into 2021 the number of vehicles will drop significantly with the processing time per truck increasing significantly. The awkward problem being that we need the stuff that comes on trucks, but as soon as we try and ship it the border comes to a stop. If we don't trade the border delays may only be in single digit hours as opposed to the days it will be otherwise.

So we will adapt. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Life finds a way to adapt.

I wonder if regional inequality might be addressed if trade no longer occurs narrowly through a South East tunnel and is diversified across ports like Liverpool, Portsmouth etc too.

Regional inequality reduced by everyone being poorer, just the South East being proportionally more poorer?

I thought you guys opposed such things. Socialism and all that.

If we lower the Common External Tariff so that we aren't protecting trade with little Europe over the global trade then we can improve our livelihoods not lower them.

Of course we can. Doesn't mean we will.

FrancisUrquhart

Quincel said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Quincel said:

BETTING TIP

You can lay Brian Rose to win the 2021 London Mayoral Election at 7, or even lower if you are lucky (I just got a bunch matched at 6.4). It's an insane price, akin to the YangGang fervour last year but perhaps even weirder. Who are his enthusiastic backers? Unlike Yang he isn't even getting an impressive amount of media coverage for an outsider or anything like that.

The market is thin, but if you leave money up it is getting matched at around 7, many thousands have been matched so far.

Or you could just take the 1.25 or so available on Khan to win. Almost as safe and another 10% profit or so. I've got a bit on that too, but it's definitely another step away from 'Banker' compared to laying Rose.

I've seen Youtube adverts for Rose (including this morning) and I imagine he will be using other social media platforms as well.

Yes, anecdote suggests he's spending quite heavily on that. No indication he has any voters supporting him though.

As the old joke goes, he's within the margin of error in the latest poll. Of Khan? Of Bailey? No, of having any support at all.

Well he has a million quid from his last grift to play with.

contrarian

Philip_Thompson said:

contrarian said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Gallowgate said:

A planning application for a 250 acre opencast mine for the extraction of 800,000 tons of coal and 400,000 tons of fireclay is probably going to be rejected by Newcastle City Council today. A pity.

Good. No need for coal energy in this country. It's polluting and the leading cause of climate change.

There's different types of coal though isn't there?

Coal for burning absolutely is antiquated.

Coal for steel is different and still needed though isn't it?

No idea which this one is but there's a future usage I believe for the right types of coal even in a net zero future.

As I understand it the coal is to be used to make steel for.....er.......windfarms.

Its almost as if Maoist 20-year plans have horrendous unforeseen downsides.

What's wrong with that in your eyes? 🤔

Producing steel for long term energy production is a far superior usage of coal than merely burning it for electricity.

What's wrong with it is it that Zero 2050 is a Great Leap Forward Maoist target. Burning coal for steel is just one example of how when you have these, everything, and in particular inconvenient truth, gets completely and utterly ignored in pursuit of the goal. Destroying forests to grow biofuels is another example of this

Frank Dikotter's 'Mao's Great Famine' and Jung Chang's 'Mao, the Unknown Story' are instructive in this respect. Conservative politicians should know these books by rote.