Disruption, turmoil, and a split in the body politic with some advocating a stuff 'em attitude and others saying we must admit we were wrong and return to the EU.
How would voters react?
Polling seems to suggest a stable majority for the notion we were wrong to leave. But that may not translate to a majority saying we should rejoin (especially if terms are worse).
Tumultuous times will remain, I think...
Well if this turns out to be true, only the ERG and Farage will still back Brexit and wrong to Brexit will be in the high 80s.
The politics of which area goes into which Tier is going to be the main story of the next week I feel. The areas of growth (as opposed to raw numbers) in the virus are in the South. And Tory. Already we are seeing lots of special pleading.
The pressure/pleading from PL clubs and other sports is also going to be interesting.
I suspect we might see a situation where England's rugby union team have fans back next weekend whilst most PL clubs do not.
This 4000/2000 business seems very blunt. Surely that depends on the capacity? We saw this in France over the Summer. 5000 rattling around PSG. and 5000 in a 13000 capacity stadium are two very different things.
Its 4,000 or 50% capacity whichever is the lower
Ta for that. Missed that bit. Still makes no logical sense though. 4000 in an 8000 seater is fine. But not 5000 in an 80000?
The politics of which area goes into which Tier is going to be the main story of the next week I feel. The areas of growth (as opposed to raw numbers) in the virus are in the South. And Tory. Already we are seeing lots of special pleading.
The pressure/pleading from PL clubs and other sports is also going to be interesting.
I suspect we might see a situation where England's rugby union team have fans back next weekend whilst most PL clubs do not.
This 4000/2000 business seems very blunt. Surely that depends on the capacity? We saw this in France over the Summer. 5000 rattling around PSG. and 5000 in a 13000 capacity stadium are two very different things.
Yes, I thought that was strange. And the smaller clubs may get bigger crowds because of the PL restrictions. So, if you're a West Ham fan but can't get a ticket, and love live football, you and your mates may head to see Leyton Orient instead. Or will that not be allowed - is it going to be season ticket holders only?
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
Nigel is a professional whinger but why should we care about him?
Because if he gets on a roll again and pulls off - in both senses - the hardcore nationalist leavers it creates a great electoral opportunity for Labour.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Very cavalier. Especially if there are 3m of them.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
I imagine it's an assertion-of-dominance thing. Sort of like how Adam got to name all the animals.
Hard left flounce off having lost control of the NEC. Where is The_Jezziah when you need him?
Says PBs expert on flouncing
If you told Labour members that within months Keir Starmer would suspend Corbyn, drive every left winger out of shadow cabinet and split the NEC, he never would have won the leadership.
If Labour members wanted a new leader who would ignore Corbyn's continuing refusal to accept the scale of antisemitism in the party, you'd have Long-Bailey and Burgon leading it.
The politics of which area goes into which Tier is going to be the main story of the next week I feel. The areas of growth (as opposed to raw numbers) in the virus are in the South. And Tory. Already we are seeing lots of special pleading.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Mmm.
"It's time to form a square around the Pritster."
"Let's hear it for the Gover."
Cameron was a "girly swot."
Etc. You just know how it is around Johnson without being there.
Hard left flounce off having lost control of the NEC. Where is The_Jezziah when you need him?
Says PBs expert on flouncing
If you told Labour members that within months Keir Starmer would suspend Corbyn, drive every left winger out of shadow cabinet and split the NEC, he never would have won the leadership.
Agreed, brilliant work by Starmer –– completely outmanoeuvred the mad left from start to finish.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
It is equally as pathetic as PBers endlessly requoting the name as if it were funny.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Very common in services and other uniformed organizations though.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
Funny and accurate how?
It just sounds like standard misogynistic garbage to me.
The politics of which area goes into which Tier is going to be the main story of the next week I feel. The areas of growth (as opposed to raw numbers) in the virus are in the South. And Tory. Already we are seeing lots of special pleading.
The pressure/pleading from PL clubs and other sports is also going to be interesting.
I suspect we might see a situation where England's rugby union team have fans back next weekend whilst most PL clubs do not.
This 4000/2000 business seems very blunt. Surely that depends on the capacity? We saw this in France over the Summer. 5000 rattling around PSG. and 5000 in a 13000 capacity stadium are two very different things.
Its 4,000 or 50% capacity whichever is the lower
Ta for that. Missed that bit. Still makes no logical sense though. 4000 in an 8000 seater is fine. But not 5000 in an 80000?
I wonder if above 4,000 it is as much about transport to/from the ground which is the limiting factor. (Having you ever tried to leave Twickenham after a game/concert? Even 5,000 might be pushing the social distancing limitations on the trains for example)
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
How many Conservative 2019 voters can they take with them?
I think a good proxy for the size of the demographic who would vote for a Farage vehicle is the number of adults in Britain who strongly support President Donald J Trump. Of the order 3m, I believe. Which is not to be sniffed at as a GE factor.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
How many Conservative 2019 voters can they take with them?
I think a good proxy for the size of the demographic who would vote for a Farage vehicle is the number of adults in Britain who strongly support President Donald J Trump. Of the order 3m, I believe. Which is not to be sniffed at as a GE factor.
They achieved Brexit so as you say don't misunderestimate them.
Hard left flounce off having lost control of the NEC. Where is The_Jezziah when you need him?
Says PBs expert on flouncing
If you told Labour members that within months Keir Starmer would suspend Corbyn, drive every left winger out of shadow cabinet and split the NEC, he never would have won the leadership.
Agreed, brilliant work by Starmer –– completely outmanoeuvred the mad left from start to finish.
Lost 10% of Membership in 6 months too
I reckon Membership will be halved by 2024 and Labour will be in massive financial difficuties
“Emma McClarkin, of the British Beer and Pub Association, said that the new measures “unfairly” targeted pubs and would eradicate the viability of at least 90 per cent in Tiers 2 and 3. “If these tighter tier restrictions are forced upon us, far more government financial support will be needed to avoid the resulting carnage.”
The Institute of Economic Affairs, the think tank, said that there was “no scientific basis” for insisting that drinks should be served with food. Christopher Snowdon, its head of lifestyle economics, said that Tier 2 restrictions were “a death sentence for countless pubs and restaurants”.
Yep - sheer malice from the government.
The deliberate destruction of 90% of a sector.
No polite words to describe what I think of this government.
No, I can't see why having a meal with your drink makes it safer.
Is there an anti-booze sentiment in play maybe? The idea that people just drinking get pissed, forget there's a pandemic on and start horsing around?
Fewer people can eat (or afford to buy and waste) a pub meal in half a dozen establishments in an evening than can have a drink or two in the same number of establishments. People moving from venue to venue are a much bigger risk than those who stay in one place, both in terms of becoming infected and the number of people they infect.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Very cavalier. Especially if there are 3m of them.
UKIP got 3.8 million votes in 2015, the Tories still won an overall majority
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Very common in services and other uniformed organizations though.
Yes I went to the wedding of a friend in the RAF and the array of nicknames on display there was something else, not to mention some of the antics later in the evening...
Hard left flounce off having lost control of the NEC. Where is The_Jezziah when you need him?
Says PBs expert on flouncing
If you told Labour members that within months Keir Starmer would suspend Corbyn, drive every left winger out of shadow cabinet and split the NEC, he never would have won the leadership.
All of which neatly sum up the black and white world that many on the left live in.
Corbyn and Long-Bailey were asked to delete/amend twitter posts, which they've so far refused to do, even though the changes they were asked to make are apparently what we're told they believe.
Most of the shadow cabinet members decided to leave because rather than engaging with legislation that is flawed, but better than nothing, they'd rather simply oppose. The fact that Richard Burgon, who apparently has represented clients all the way to Employment Tribunals, thinks he knows more about the practical aspects of human rights law than Keir Starmer is laughable.
Not only is the russian vaccine 101% effective....they will shortly have minky mutant covid sorted to.
Meanwhile, after the news that coronavirus had been found in mink in Poland, the acting head of Russia’s state fur company has told state TV that a vaccine that would work on the animals is being tested.
According to Reuters, he also noted that such action would be precautionary and said that Russia has no evidence as yet that the virus can be passed from mink to humans.
Disruption, turmoil, and a split in the body politic with some advocating a stuff 'em attitude and others saying we must admit we were wrong and return to the EU.
How would voters react?
Polling seems to suggest a stable majority for the notion we were wrong to leave. But that may not translate to a majority saying we should rejoin (especially if terms are worse).
Tumultuous times will remain, I think...
What I think many commentators are missing is that if we leave with a deal we may still get disruption and turmoil. Under UK law we will implement customs and standards checks on 1st January. Using customs offers who haven't been hired and a choice of computer systems one of which is in early concept testing the other does not support the volume of transactions we will have.
Unless we agree a deal where we have zero tariffs and zero standards checks then the whole thing falls over on day 1.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
There is no reason not to accept a Canada style FTA.
Unfortunately the EU aren't offering that currently. Hopefully they concede on the level playing field and turn it into a Canada style FTA and if they do I'd gladly support it.
Even Canada has some LPF arrangements as part of its EU trade deal, you can go and vote for Farage too as you did last May if you refuse to accept the likely Boris compromise on that
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Very cavalier. Especially if there are 3m of them.
UKIP got 3.8 million votes in 2015, the Tories still won an overall majority
Yes, but if you lose 3m to Farage/Lozza AND a large number of the Centrist types who reluctantly chose Johnson over Corbyn you will be OUT.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It's both, presumably. Hence it's quite an amusing nickname. It's not hilarious, and it's also quite unkind and unprofessional, but there we are.
I do think you're being a little po-faced about it. Yes, nicknaming is rather trivial. But so are a lot of things we all do, and that's not the worst thing in the world now and then. If he'd been applying the label to the tea lady, I'd be more bothered about it. But as it happens he was doing it to someone he could ill afford to offend. It was an expensive joke, and good riddance to him.
Disruption, turmoil, and a split in the body politic with some advocating a stuff 'em attitude and others saying we must admit we were wrong and return to the EU.
How would voters react?
Polling seems to suggest a stable majority for the notion we were wrong to leave. But that may not translate to a majority saying we should rejoin (especially if terms are worse).
Tumultuous times will remain, I think...
What I think many commentators are missing is that if we leave with a deal we may still get disruption and turmoil. Under UK law we will implement customs and standards checks on 1st January. Using customs offers who haven't been hired and a choice of computer systems one of which is in early concept testing the other does not support the volume of transactions we will have.
Unless we agree a deal where we have zero tariffs and zero standards checks then the whole thing falls over on day 1.
If its going to fall over anyway we may as well have no deal. 😉
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
Yes I think that's right. Of course as it turned out the person they were insulting was more of an insider than they were (as should have been obvious, one would have thought).
Hard left flounce off having lost control of the NEC. Where is The_Jezziah when you need him?
Says PBs expert on flouncing
If you told Labour members that within months Keir Starmer would suspend Corbyn, drive every left winger out of shadow cabinet and split the NEC, he never would have won the leadership.
Agreed, brilliant work by Starmer –– completely outmanoeuvred the mad left from start to finish.
Lost 10% of Membership in 6 months too
I reckon Membership will be halved by 2024 and Labour will be in massive financial difficuties
The "massive financial difficulties" caused by the egregious GDPR breach and libels carried out by the previous leadership team? Halving of the membership won't cause an issue nor does it matter. Politics is not a who has the biggest cock contest. Having half a million members and a potential voting base of only those half million members is not a better place than a few hundred thousand members and being elected into government.
Disruption, turmoil, and a split in the body politic with some advocating a stuff 'em attitude and others saying we must admit we were wrong and return to the EU.
How would voters react?
Polling seems to suggest a stable majority for the notion we were wrong to leave. But that may not translate to a majority saying we should rejoin (especially if terms are worse).
Tumultuous times will remain, I think...
What I think many commentators are missing is that if we leave with a deal we may still get disruption and turmoil. Under UK law we will implement customs and standards checks on 1st January. Using customs offers who haven't been hired and a choice of computer systems one of which is in early concept testing the other does not support the volume of transactions we will have.
Unless we agree a deal where we have zero tariffs and zero standards checks then the whole thing falls over on day 1.
If its going to fall over anyway we may as well have no deal. 😉
Practically speaking there isn't that much difference between a UKGT and a WTO tariff. At the moment we don't pay tariffs not have to fuck around with 14 expensive and slow stages to export to the EU and in a few weeks we will.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
Yes I think that's right. Of course as it turned out the person they were insulting was more of an insider than they were (as should have been obvious, one would have thought).
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
Right. Although in this case the nickname was bestowed by insiders on an outsider. Unlike, for example, Johnson and Cummings calling Michael Gove "PopEye" and Munira Mirza "Mintcakes" (or vice versa). That would be more an example of what you're talking about.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
I guess that the difference here is that a lot of the types of nicknaming you mention occur within the close-knit group about each other rather that the close knit group applying it to outsiders. I do see the criticism that Symonds was not in on the joke (such as it was), and that's quite cruel... albeit mitigated by her getting the last laugh.
Incidentally, I also think Donald Trump - for all the fact he's an appalling human being - does sometimes hit on some fairly amusing nicknames which do draw on a germ of truth. I was and am a Pete Buttigieg fan... but Trump comparing him to Alfred Newmann from MAD Comic was pretty funny to be fair. Rocket Man was also objectively amusing (albeit dangerous).
I expect a lot of the Trump resistance to fall off at this stage - not the rhetoric, but the actual number of court cases. Even Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham have admitted that Biden won.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Very common in services and other uniformed organizations though.
The politics of which area goes into which Tier is going to be the main story of the next week I feel. The areas of growth (as opposed to raw numbers) in the virus are in the South. And Tory. Already we are seeing lots of special pleading.
The pressure/pleading from PL clubs and other sports is also going to be interesting.
I suspect we might see a situation where England's rugby union team have fans back next weekend whilst most PL clubs do not.
This 4000/2000 business seems very blunt. Surely that depends on the capacity? We saw this in France over the Summer. 5000 rattling around PSG. and 5000 in a 13000 capacity stadium are two very different things.
Its 4,000 or 50% capacity whichever is the lower
Ta for that. Missed that bit. Still makes no logical sense though. 4000 in an 8000 seater is fine. But not 5000 in an 80000?
I don't get that bit either. It looks like this is more about throwing a lifeline to smaller clubs to stop them going bust than any well founded evaluation of risk.
Hard left flounce off having lost control of the NEC. Where is The_Jezziah when you need him?
Says PBs expert on flouncing
If you told Labour members that within months Keir Starmer would suspend Corbyn, drive every left winger out of shadow cabinet and split the NEC, he never would have won the leadership.
Agreed, brilliant work by Starmer –– completely outmanoeuvred the mad left from start to finish.
Lost 10% of Membership in 6 months too
I reckon Membership will be halved by 2024 and Labour will be in massive financial difficuties
The "massive financial difficulties" caused by the egregious GDPR breach and libels carried out by the previous leadership team? Halving of the membership won't cause an issue nor does it matter. Politics is not a who has the biggest cock contest. Having half a million members and a potential voting base of only those half million members is not a better place than a few hundred thousand members and being elected into government.
Indeed if Labour ends up losing former Corbynista members to the Greens and the Tories end up losing No Deal diehard members to Farage it will probably end up increasing the electability of both!
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
Yes I think that's right. Of course as it turned out the person they were insulting was more of an insider than they were (as should have been obvious, one would have thought).
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
I guess that the difference here is that a lot of the types of nicknaming you mention occur within the close-knit group about each other rather that the close knit group applying it to outsiders. I do see the criticism that Symonds was not in on the joke (such as it was), and that's quite cruel... albeit mitigated by her getting the last laugh.
Incidentally, I also think Donald Trump - for all the fact he's an appalling human being - does sometimes hit on some fairly amusing nicknames which do draw on a germ of truth. I was and am a Pete Buttigieg fan... but Trump comparing him to Alfred Newmann from MAD Comic was pretty funny to be fair. Rocket Man was also objectively amusing (albeit dangerous).
Indeed. There's a novel about the war Mr T starts by tweeting Rocket Man ... (The 2020 Commission Report on the North Korean Nuclear Attacks Against The United States. by Jeffrey Lewis).
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Very cavalier. Especially if there are 3m of them.
UKIP got 3.8 million votes in 2015, the Tories still won an overall majority
Yes, but if you lose 3m to Farage/Lozza AND a large number of the Centrist types who reluctantly chose Johnson over Corbyn you will be OUT.
If the Tories are losing voters to Farage they will not be losing large numbers of centrist types as 2015 proved, by contrast if they are losing centrist types they will not be losing voters to Farage, there are more centrist types than Farage voters
The politics of which area goes into which Tier is going to be the main story of the next week I feel. The areas of growth (as opposed to raw numbers) in the virus are in the South. And Tory. Already we are seeing lots of special pleading.
The pressure/pleading from PL clubs and other sports is also going to be interesting.
I suspect we might see a situation where England's rugby union team have fans back next weekend whilst most PL clubs do not.
This 4000/2000 business seems very blunt. Surely that depends on the capacity? We saw this in France over the Summer. 5000 rattling around PSG. and 5000 in a 13000 capacity stadium are two very different things.
Its 4,000 or 50% capacity whichever is the lower
Ta for that. Missed that bit. Still makes no logical sense though. 4000 in an 8000 seater is fine. But not 5000 in an 80000?
I don't get that bit either. It looks like this is more about throwing a lifeline to smaller clubs to stop them going bust than any well founded evaluation of risk.
Its the before and after crowds though isn't it?
Getting 4000 away from an 8000 seater is probably safer than getting 40,000 away from an 80,000 seater.
If you compare eg Anfield to Prenton Park then absolutely you can safer fit many more in Anfield than Prenton Park - but safely having people outside? I'm not sure, outside Anfield is pretty damn crowded in normal circumstances.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
If one is ideologically conservative what choice does one have?
For some reason I was reminded of this when I used to teach about Jenner!
A friend of mine used to manage Dr Jenners's house in Berkeley. Apparently that cartoon was actually pro-vaccine and was satirizing the wacky fantasies of the anti-vaxxers of the day.
Oh it very much was - Gilray et al could teach modern day twitter satirists a thing or two.
...although Gillray was perfectly prepared to satirise either side as long as the money was right.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
If one is ideologically conservative what choice does one have?
Abstain or cast a protest vote is always an option.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Very common in services and other uniformed organizations though.
Very common on here - Bozo/Shagger....
I award amusing monikers You use nicknames He wastes time on behaving like a schoolboy
Disruption, turmoil, and a split in the body politic with some advocating a stuff 'em attitude and others saying we must admit we were wrong and return to the EU.
How would voters react?
Polling seems to suggest a stable majority for the notion we were wrong to leave. But that may not translate to a majority saying we should rejoin (especially if terms are worse).
Tumultuous times will remain, I think...
What I think many commentators are missing is that if we leave with a deal we may still get disruption and turmoil. Under UK law we will implement customs and standards checks on 1st January. Using customs offers who haven't been hired and a choice of computer systems one of which is in early concept testing the other does not support the volume of transactions we will have.
Unless we agree a deal where we have zero tariffs and zero standards checks then the whole thing falls over on day 1.
If its going to fall over anyway we may as well have no deal. 😉
Practically speaking there isn't that much difference between a UKGT and a WTO tariff. At the moment we don't pay tariffs not have to fuck around with 14 expensive and slow stages to export to the EU and in a few weeks we will.
Well that's the point though isn't it?
If we're going to have to fuck around with the paperwork either way then if the EU demand too much in the negotiations we may as well go WTO and blame them for the chaos.
Signing up to the EU's demands and then still having chaos . . . what is the point in that?
For some reason I was reminded of this when I used to teach about Jenner!
A friend of mine used to manage Dr Jenners's house in Berkeley. Apparently that cartoon was actually pro-vaccine and was satirizing the wacky fantasies of the anti-vaxxers of the day.
Oh it very much was - Gilray et al could teach modern day twitter satirists a thing or two.
...although Gillray was perfectly prepared to satirise either side as long as the money was right.
Absolutely - this modern idea that one side hold all the morality cards leads to crap satire as well as being a load of old bollox!
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
I guess that the difference here is that a lot of the types of nicknaming you mention occur within the close-knit group about each other rather that the close knit group applying it to outsiders. I do see the criticism that Symonds was not in on the joke (such as it was), and that's quite cruel... albeit mitigated by her getting the last laugh.
Incidentally, I also think Donald Trump - for all the fact he's an appalling human being - does sometimes hit on some fairly amusing nicknames which do draw on a germ of truth. I was and am a Pete Buttigieg fan... but Trump comparing him to Alfred Newmann from MAD Comic was pretty funny to be fair. Rocket Man was also objectively amusing (albeit dangerous).
To continue the HMF example, inter-regimental rivalry is promoted in HMF at a certain, low level (not, obvs, when you might be back to back with them in an incident) and hence many of the constituent parts of the army have a nickname about other parts. Hence PARA Reg calls everyone else "(crap) hats" and many others (I liked the Argyll and Bolton Wanderers - which shows my age). And, of course, there are nicknames for the enemy, which are unrepeatable here.
And I'm sure JT and Stevie G had nicknames for, say, Lionel Messi.
Plenty of examples of othering people outside any tight knit group.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
Funny and accurate how?
It just sounds like standard misogynistic garbage to me.
It does have that whiff.
I am not a Cummings fan, but he does have a knack with catchy 3 word slogans that get noticed.
It's when he goes beyond 3 words that he gets into drivel.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
I thought we couldn't have a Canada?
An EU trade deal that ends free movement and replaces it with a points system and enables us to do our own trade deals and regain control of our fishing waters is effectively Canada, even if Boris concedes on state aid even Canada has had to agree some LPF arrangements with the EU to get its trade deal
Well Nigel should be over the moon rather than sick as a parrot with that then.
Talk about your independent coastal states.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Very cavalier. Especially if there are 3m of them.
UKIP got 3.8 million votes in 2015, the Tories still won an overall majority
Yes, but if you lose 3m to Farage/Lozza AND a large number of the Centrist types who reluctantly chose Johnson over Corbyn you will be OUT.
If the Tories are losing voters to Farage they will not be losing large numbers of centrist types as 2015 proved, by contrast if they are losing centrist types they will not be losing voters to Farage, there are more centrist types than Farage voters
That's what remains to be seen. (Though as one of the centre-right types who the Conservatives were happy to see drift off over the last few years, you're going to have to do better than that to win me back.)
It's possible that a successful FTA is the sweet spot that keeps everyone happy enough.
It's also possible that it's the point that turns out to annoy everyone. Enough barriers to put off those who want links with Europe, bought with enough compromises to make the hard Brexit crew stomp of to Nigel.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
If one is ideologically conservative what choice does one have?
Well what does that even mean these days? I bet in a head to head the policies of most of the parties wouldn't be that different.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
2014 was a political generation ago.
Life has move on dramatically since then. Brexit ensured that.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Very common in services and other uniformed organizations though.
Very common on here - Bozo/Shagger....
I award amusing monikers You use nicknames He wastes time on behaving like a schoolboy
Personally I don't refer to Johnson by any of the "amusing" nicknames. Not even "Boris"...
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
2014 was a political generation ago.
Life has move on dramatically since then. Brexit ensured that.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
Indeed. Reclaim laws and money being the first thing that the manifesto said.
If the EU wants to control our laws and money and won't give us a deal without that control then it would betray the manifesto to sign up to that deal.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
The same manifesto Mr Johnson has ripped up?
And in what order woulds you place
(a) C of E disestablishment (b) Scottish Independence (c) erasure of the UK monarchy and the establishment of a republic
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Very common in services and other uniformed organizations though.
Very common on here - Bozo/Shagger....
I award amusing monikers You use nicknames He wastes time on behaving like a schoolboy
Personally I don't refer to Johnson by any of the "amusing" nicknames. Not even "Boris"...
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Would you rather have the C of E or the Scots?
You can have both, Scotland has an Episcopalian Church within the wider Anglican communion
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
2014 was a political generation ago.
Life has move on dramatically since then. Brexit ensured that.
Given the way politicians are uniting across the board about not wanting to be in Tier III (EG London), I wonder if the government is in a bit of real trouble here.
Will labour save Boris's bacon this time?. With significant labour figures coming out against Tier III in their area, (EG Khan) maybe not.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
The same manifesto Mr Johnson has ripped up?
And in what order woulds you place
(a) C of E disestablishment (b) Scottish Independence (c) erasure of the UK monarchy and the establishment of a republic
He has not ripped it up at all, the Deal he is aiming for is exactly the right one.
The Tory leadership does not support disestablishment of the C of E, does not support Scottish independence and does not support erasure of the UK monarchy, so your points are irrelevant
I expect a lot of the Trump resistance to fall off at this stage - not the rhetoric, but the actual number of court cases. Even Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham have admitted that Biden won.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
Indeed. Reclaim laws and money being the first thing that the manifesto said.
If the EU wants to control our laws and money and won't give us a deal without that control then it would betray the manifesto to sign up to that deal.
Sod off to Farage then, good riddance and don't come back!!
The Tory manifesto never made any promises on state aid
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
2014 was a political generation ago.
Life has move on dramatically since then. Brexit ensured that.
Your bullshit push poll is a moronic lie that even you're not stupid enough to believe so why do you keep spreading it? You're not gullible enough to believe push polling is respectable so why do you do it? Do you not wish to have any integrity whatsoever?
If you're so confident in that push poll then have another referendum and settle the issue. What have you got to fear if that push poll was accurate?
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Would you rather have the C of E or the Scots?
You can have both, Scotland has an Episcopalian Church within the wider Anglican communion
I'm, not talking about the Piskies (who have been disestablished since 1690, and are in any case a sister not subordinate church to the C of E).
I'm talking about the full fat English Henrician theocracy. Would you rather lose that or Scotland or the Crown, and in what order?
Given the way politicians are uniting across the board about not wanting to be in Tier III (EG London), I wonder if the government is in a bit of real trouble here.
Will labour save Boris's bacon this time?. With significant labour figures coming out against Tier III in their area, (EG Khan) maybe not.
As I have said previously on here. It is getting increasingly difficult for Lab to start opposing the govt given that it has and seemingly will support it on Covid and Brexit.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
Indeed. Reclaim laws and money being the first thing that the manifesto said.
If the EU wants to control our laws and money and won't give us a deal without that control then it would betray the manifesto to sign up to that deal.
Sod off to Farage then, good riddance and don't come back!!
The Tory manifesto never made any promises on state aid
I couldn't care less about state aid.
I do care about laws and money which is what the manifesto said.
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
The same manifesto Mr Johnson has ripped up?
And in what order woulds you place
(a) C of E disestablishment (b) Scottish Independence (c) erasure of the UK monarchy and the establishment of a republic
He has not ripped it up at all, the Deal he is aiming for is exactly the right one.
The Tory leadership does not support disestablishment of the C of E, does not support Scottish independence and does not support erasure of the UK monarchy, so your points are irrelevant
Funny, I thouight the manifesto was all about no border in the Irish sea and the rule of law.
One club has to be in 1st Place, unfortunately. Were West Brom and Wolves also high on the list or are you just trying to make a cheap joke?
I don't believe any large club had just 13 incidents last year.
From discussions on football forums, it's also likely that a lot of these cases are fans reporting other fans of the same team. In which case, maybe Aston Villa have the most virtuous fans in the country?
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
The same manifesto Mr Johnson has ripped up?
And in what order woulds you place
(a) C of E disestablishment (b) Scottish Independence (c) erasure of the UK monarchy and the establishment of a republic
He has not ripped it up at all, the Deal he is aiming for is exactly the right one.
The Tory leadership does not support disestablishment of the C of E, does not support Scottish independence and does not support erasure of the UK monarchy, so your points are irrelevant
Funny, I thouight the manifesto was all about no border in the Irish sea and the rule of law.
Well the Internal Markets Bill ensures no border in the Irish Sea (though the likely EU trade deal would reduce its impact)
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
The same manifesto Mr Johnson has ripped up?
And in what order woulds you place
(a) C of E disestablishment (b) Scottish Independence (c) erasure of the UK monarchy and the establishment of a republic
He has not ripped it up at all, the Deal he is aiming for is exactly the right one.
The Tory leadership does not support disestablishment of the C of E, does not support Scottish independence and does not support erasure of the UK monarchy, so your points are irrelevant
Funny, I thouight the manifesto was all about no border in the Irish sea and the rule of law.
Well the Internal Markets Bill ensures no border in the Irish Sea (though the likely EU trade deal would reduce its impact)
But it's not in the manifesto. And it breaches the rule of law. Very unconservative.
I expect a lot of the Trump resistance to fall off at this stage - not the rhetoric, but the actual number of court cases. Even Rush Limbaugh and Laura Ingraham have admitted that Biden won.
Everyone but Betfair at this rate.
and almost 80% of Trump voters.
The scatter gun approach was clearly hurting Trump anyway. Better to concentrate on a simpler message and a simpler focus of attack.
Or signatures, as its otherwise known. Why won;t democrats allow signature match audits?
That said, watching Sidney Powell trying to make a horse race out of her lawsuit is going to be fun.
Laura Pidcock @LauraPidcock · 1h The left grouping were just forced to walk out of NEC meeting. The disrespect for the left is something we will not put up with. The leadership undermine governance of the NEC, censor debate & ignore our processes by doubling down on the removal of the whip from @jeremycorbyn
Lovely use of "forced" there to describe an unforced tactical decision. Like Trump - who abuses language in his own ways as well - the left are not great losers, though they should be getting used to it by now.
SKS knows that win an election he needs quite a few people who habitually vote Tory to vote Labour. As long as the left is acting in a Trumpish manner he will struggle. It is worth considering carefully the mystery of why he isn't 20 points ahead now.
I wouldn't say Labour needs habitual Tory voters, but it does need people who view voting Tory as something you can do and still claim to have a conscience - which is a view I struggle with, naturally.
One of the reasons SKS isn't ahead is because they aren't listening to his criticism of the government. Yesterday in Parliament is a bit of an exception, and SKS seemed to make a decent stab of criticising the government failure over isolating people infectious with Covid - but it doesn't cut through.
This might be because SKS is boring and lacks personality, so won't get a hearing on any topic. Or it might be that the media remain fixated on the eternal debate over the minutiae of Corona restrictions.
The most prominent SKS has been on Covid since being elected was when he called for the circuit-breaker. The media's favourite topic.
If Labour attract a load of habitual Con voters that is landslide. I'd say it's more the floaters who are the realistic target. Those middle ground voters who reluctantly voted Con last time because they were spooked by the notion of PM Corbyn. But in addition one does not want to lose too many of those who were enthused by the Corbyn era. They remain an essential part of an election winning coalition. So I don't think Labour supporters should be too gung ho about "the left" getting royally pissed off with Starmer.
Starmer is never going to match Blair in appeal to Tory voters, he won the biggest Labour landslides ever in 1997 and 2001 precisely because many Tories saw him as a One Nation Tory and that is why he made such big inroads even in the traditionally Tory South.
He just needs to appeal to working class and lower middle class swing voters who might have voted for Harold Wilson in a previous era, particularly in the North, the Midlands, London and Wales and win back the Red Wall
Starmer's best hope is divide and conquer. Get as many disaffected tories as he can to vote for Farage, and drive through the middle.
Which means supporting Boris quite a bit, actually.
Provided Boris does not do a SM and CU BINO but a Canada style FTA and starts to ease back on lockdowns next year as we get people vaccinated I think Farage will be a busted flush
You don’t think Farage will find more specious grievances with which to inflame the lumpen? There's the ongoing channel fiasco for a start and that's before het gets his teeth into Princess Nut Nut's green agenda.
Nut Nuts, not Nut Nut. In the interests of PB pedantry.
One thing I don't really understand is why these people, who are meant to be serious people in charge of running the country, are wasting their brain cells coming up with infantile nicknames for each other. Is it a public school thing? It's not something I've ever encountered in the workplace or indeed anywhere else.
Seriously - you've never encountered people coming up with infantile nicknames for each other in any context?
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
No I am honestly struggling to think of an example from my own life. It's not like I have only hung out with po-faced killjoys or anything, but I don't think nicknames were a big feature of my school (there was a hard as nails boy a couple of years beneath us, who scared the shit out of everyone and was for some reason known as "Mavis" - which somehow made him more scary, but he was the exception). I've mostly worked in quite international environments which perhaps make people more nervous of causing offence. I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
It emphasises the insiders vs the outsiders. Nicknames occur in tight knit organisations who perceive they face (or who actually do face) external threats and need to bind together closely for support. Eg. football teams, HMF, and it seems Dom & Boris' inner sanctum.
Yes I think that's right. Of course as it turned out the person they were insulting was more of an insider than they were (as should have been obvious, one would have thought).
If the No Deal diehards refuse to even accept a Canada style FTA they can sod off to Farage as far as I am concerned and never come back!!
Well said.
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
I would still stay in the party and argue for a Deal, I am obviously not going to go off to Farage either way am I!
You swallowed Brexit although you believed that the wellbeing of the UK was best served by staying in the EU. You now say that if the Party said it wanted no deal you would stay when you believe that it would be very bad for your country.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
I believe he draws the line in recognising that Scots have a right to national self-determination like Cameron and Thatcher said. If the Tory leader won't send in jackboots to squash the rebellious Scots then that is his deal breaker.
Preserving the Union at all costs is a pivotal part of being a Tory, backing a No Deal Brexit as opposed to simply respecting the Brexit vote is not, just another reason why you are not and never will be a Tory.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
Yebbut wanting to leave the EU is a pivotal part of being a Tory in today's party. Boris even made every would be MP swear as such.
Respecting the Leave vote yes, the Tory manifesto also set out the Brexit deal with the EU they were aiming for, only Farage's party in 2019 was pushing No Deal
The same manifesto Mr Johnson has ripped up?
And in what order woulds you place
(a) C of E disestablishment (b) Scottish Independence (c) erasure of the UK monarchy and the establishment of a republic
He has not ripped it up at all, the Deal he is aiming for is exactly the right one.
The Tory leadership does not support disestablishment of the C of E, does not support Scottish independence and does not support erasure of the UK monarchy, so your points are irrelevant
And how do you know what deal he is aiming for, let alone that it is exactly the right one?
Comments
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1331001990638399491
Still makes no logical sense though. 4000 in an 8000 seater is fine.
But not 5000 in an 80000?
Edit - answered above, 50% limit.
Aston Villa fans reported for alleged hate crimes more than any other club's supporters in 2019-20
Fans of the Midlands club were reported on 13 occasions: seven related to race, five related to sexual orientation and one to religion
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/11/24/aston-villa-fans-reported-alleged-hate-crimes-clubs-supporters/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55022008
But what if that (no deal) becomes Cons Party policy and/or is enacted. Where would that leave your relationship with the Party?
No wobbling.
"It's time to form a square around the Pritster."
"Let's hear it for the Gover."
Cameron was a "girly swot."
Etc. You just know how it is around Johnson without being there.
I agree it's risky and unprofessional at work, but it's surely commonplace amongst friendship groups regardless of class.
Also a bit silly to say "wasting their brain cells"... do you whisk The Times crossword away from people doing it on the train too, for fear it will reduce national productivity?
Incidentally, I think Princess Nut Nut is fairly funny and accurate... albeit an incredibly stupid thing to spread about regarding your boss' squeeze (and hinting at Cummings' belief in his own invincibility which was perhaps bolstered rather than tested by the Barnard Castle survival).
It just sounds like standard misogynistic garbage to me.
I'm not totally sure what "princess nut nut" is meant to convey? Preciousness? A chipmunk like appearance? I guess one can kind of pick up those vibes from Ms Symmonds. Seriously though, it is all so relentlessly trivial.
I reckon Membership will be halved by 2024 and Labour will be in massive financial difficuties
Corbyn and Long-Bailey were asked to delete/amend twitter posts, which they've so far refused to do, even though the changes they were asked to make are apparently what we're told they believe.
Most of the shadow cabinet members decided to leave because rather than engaging with legislation that is flawed, but better than nothing, they'd rather simply oppose. The fact that Richard Burgon, who apparently has represented clients all the way to Employment Tribunals, thinks he knows more about the practical aspects of human rights law than Keir Starmer is laughable.
Meanwhile, after the news that coronavirus had been found in mink in Poland, the acting head of Russia’s state fur company has told state TV that a vaccine that would work on the animals is being tested.
According to Reuters, he also noted that such action would be precautionary and said that Russia has no evidence as yet that the virus can be passed from mink to humans.
Unless we agree a deal where we have zero tariffs and zero standards checks then the whole thing falls over on day 1.
I do think you're being a little po-faced about it. Yes, nicknaming is rather trivial. But so are a lot of things we all do, and that's not the worst thing in the world now and then. If he'd been applying the label to the tea lady, I'd be more bothered about it. But as it happens he was doing it to someone he could ill afford to offend. It was an expensive joke, and good riddance to him.
Incidentally, I also think Donald Trump - for all the fact he's an appalling human being - does sometimes hit on some fairly amusing nicknames which do draw on a germ of truth. I was and am a Pete Buttigieg fan... but Trump comparing him to Alfred Newmann from MAD Comic was pretty funny to be fair. Rocket Man was also objectively amusing (albeit dangerous).
Caligula just means little boot (well, small military sandal). His real name was Gaius.
And Julius Caesar was known as the Queen of Bithynia, so fond he was of the place's king.
So at what point would you think that the Party had moved too far from your beliefs, and was inflicting too much harm on the country you love, such that you would, in all good faith, no longer be able to remain a member of it?
Getting 4000 away from an 8000 seater is probably safer than getting 40,000 away from an 80,000 seater.
If you compare eg Anfield to Prenton Park then absolutely you can safer fit many more in Anfield than Prenton Park - but safely having people outside? I'm not sure, outside Anfield is pretty damn crowded in normal circumstances.
You use nicknames
He wastes time on behaving like a schoolboy
If we're going to have to fuck around with the paperwork either way then if the EU demand too much in the negotiations we may as well go WTO and blame them for the chaos.
Signing up to the EU's demands and then still having chaos . . . what is the point in that?
And I'm sure JT and Stevie G had nicknames for, say, Lionel Messi.
Plenty of examples of othering people outside any tight knit group.
2014 was a once in generation referendum and the Scots voted to stay in the UK and that should be respected
I am not a Cummings fan, but he does have a knack with catchy 3 word slogans that get noticed.
It's when he goes beyond 3 words that he gets into drivel.
It's possible that a successful FTA is the sweet spot that keeps everyone happy enough.
It's also possible that it's the point that turns out to annoy everyone. Enough barriers to put off those who want links with Europe, bought with enough compromises to make the hard Brexit crew stomp of to Nigel.
Life has move on dramatically since then. Brexit ensured that.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-most-scots-would-reject-independence-after-considering-issues-2976093
If the EU wants to control our laws and money and won't give us a deal without that control then it would betray the manifesto to sign up to that deal.
And in what order woulds you place
(a) C of E disestablishment
(b) Scottish Independence
(c) erasure of the UK monarchy and the establishment of a republic
Will labour save Boris's bacon this time?. With significant labour figures coming out against Tier III in their area, (EG Khan) maybe not.
The Tory leadership does not support disestablishment of the C of E, does not support Scottish independence and does not support erasure of the UK monarchy, so your points are irrelevant
The Tory manifesto never made any promises on state aid
Your bullshit push poll is a moronic lie that even you're not stupid enough to believe so why do you keep spreading it? You're not gullible enough to believe push polling is respectable so why do you do it? Do you not wish to have any integrity whatsoever?
If you're so confident in that push poll then have another referendum and settle the issue. What have you got to fear if that push poll was accurate?
I'm talking about the full fat English Henrician theocracy. Would you rather lose that or Scotland or the Crown, and in what order?
At what point will they oppose?
I do care about laws and money which is what the manifesto said.
From discussions on football forums, it's also likely that a lot of these cases are fans reporting other fans of the same team. In which case, maybe Aston Villa have the most virtuous fans in the country?
The scatter gun approach was clearly hurting Trump anyway. Better to concentrate on a simpler message and a simpler focus of attack.
Or signatures, as its otherwise known. Why won;t democrats allow signature match audits?
That said, watching Sidney Powell trying to make a horse race out of her lawsuit is going to be fun.
https://twitter.com/Tridg98/status/1331242604219011074?s=20
It would take a heart of...
We don't/shouldn't live in a police state so someone acting as he describes shouldn't be arrested. But the camera doesn't show that so I'm curious.