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Blimey, I was not expecting this – politicalbetting.com

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  • Lol suddenly Farage isn't going on about the war enough.
    Do you think Trump is the most resilient and brave person Farage has ever met?
    This has got to be the lamest example of mock outrage I think I've ever seen.
  • kle4 said:
    Massive donor to the Labour party?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    kle4 said:
    It’s civil war. They are choosing sides. It’s fantastic
  • Lol suddenly Farage isn't going on about the war enough.
    Do you think Trump is the most resilient and brave person Farage has ever met?
    This has got to be the lamest example of mock outrage I think I've ever seen.
    That's the shitest reply to a non rhetorical question I think I've ever seen.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    kle4 said:
    Unite *is* The Party, Komrade

    Just like the inner circle of Old Bolsheviks were The Party. Before Stalin did "rm -rf *"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    kicorse said:

    kinabalu said:


    Well sure. But the exchange was me responding to the charge that I am an antisemite for holding the view that Starmer expelling Corbyn risks internal party strife which could outweigh the political benefit. Found that a bit harsh and not really fair.

    That said, Corbyn plainly has a blind spot on the issue (Angela Rayner's words) rather than holding anti-Semitic views himself, but it will long be claimed that this proves otherwise.
    But when you are leader, a blind spot is a pretty glaringly big problem, as it means tackling the problem is impossible. Personality wise they could nto be more different, but like Trump he seems incapable of even acknowledging the possibility that he is part of the problem. Even when he might say it is his fault, his actions and other words show he doesn't really think that's possible.

    Not sure where things will go next though. Corbyn has always been a serial rebel but unlike some of his followers has been committed to the Labour brand. What happens when either his suspension is lifted, and Keir has to welcome him back, or he is told there is no path back until he retracts his statements?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129

    kle4 said:
    Massive donor to the Labour party?
    But this is about Corbyn being suspended for his own statements, not swathes of Labour members.
    Yokes said:
    And him a pacifist, too.
  • Lol suddenly Farage isn't going on about the war enough.
    Do you think Trump is the most resilient and brave person Farage has ever met?
    This has got to be the lamest example of mock outrage I think I've ever seen.
    Why do you hate our armed forces?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Yokes said:
    I bet it was Seamus Milne who concocted that phrase. He’s the classic posh, effete, public school Marxist who gets a tiny pathetic thrill out of martial class-war rhetoric, whereas in reality he’d be the first person running away to America to hide from Pol Pot
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,671
    edited October 2020
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:
    Massive donor to the Labour party?
    But this is about Corbyn being suspended for his own statements, not swathes of Labour members.
    Yokes said:
    And him a pacifist, too.
    It's like Article V of NATO, an attack on Corbyn is an attack on all of them.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Lol suddenly Farage isn't going on about the war enough.
    Do you think Trump is the most resilient and brave person Farage has ever met?
    This has got to be the lamest example of mock outrage I think I've ever seen.
    Yeah, the ones in wheelchairs probly don't walk so good. Why not change your posting name to Badly Written Bot?
  • I note how the Jezza outriders like DDN had slickly produced videos ready to go showing how Jezza definitely can't be anti-Semitic in any way.
  • LadyG said:

    Yokes said:
    I bet it was Seamus Milne who concocted that phrase. He’s the classic posh, effete, public school Marxist who gets a tiny pathetic thrill out of martial class-war rhetoric, whereas in reality he’d be the first person running away to America to hide from Pol Pot
    Unlike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Caldwell
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129

    I note how the Jezza outriders like DDN had slickly produced videos ready to go showing how Jezza definitely can't be anti-Semitic in any way.

    They've had a lot of cause to use them over the last 4 years. I wonder why that is.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
    I’m okay - but thanks. I believe I have survived my dark night of the soul. Now it is just bleak, despairing laughter, with a vague hope of survival at the end. That’ll do.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020
    The approximate number of early votes cast at the time of the poll was

    2,697,901 (I've taken the numbers for the midpoint day of the poll)

    Biden leads 62-36 with Early Voters according to the poll. A lead of 650000 ish

    In a fit of insanity the pollsters do not breakout Have Voted from Will Vote. So impossible to see their implied turnout.

    However if everyone registered to vote turns out to vote then Trump would need to win the remainder by 14 points.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited October 2020
    LadyG said:

    kle4 said:
    It’s civil war. They are choosing sides. It’s fantastic
    Well that at least makes clear why you are whooping with delight .... and I had thought you were honest fighter against ingrained & systemic racism and anti-semitism ;)

    In fact, this must be the happiest pb.com thread since ... oh, I don't know, ... since 18 February 2019. when Chuka & Co left Labour and broke the mould of British politics by forming Change UK.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129


    It's like Article V of NATO, an attack on Corbyn is an attack on all of them.

    Conflating the man with the movement, how unsurprising of them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,700

    JACK_W said:

    North Carolina - UMASS/Lowell - 911 LV - 28/29 Oct

    Biden 48 .. Trump 48

    https://www.uml.edu/Research/public-opinion/polls/2020/NC-Oct.aspx

    Er...

    "As turnout in North Carolina is now above 81% of the total turnout in the 2016 election,1 it’s become clear that early voting has become a major part of the story. Among those who have already voted, Biden has a sizeable lead over Trump, 62% to 36%. Among those who had not voted when the field was conducted, Trump leads 64% to 30%. A clear story of this election is that Biden’s voters are voting and have voted and that the Trump campaign is counting on election day turnout to boost its numbers."

    Just how big does turnout have to be for Trump to claw back that 26% lead Biden appears to have in the votes already cast?
    Looking at the demographics, I would tend to bet on Trump in NC based on that poll. Interestingly there is no gender split at all, which contradicts what most pollsters are saying.

    https://www.uml.edu/docs/2020-NC-Oct-Topline_tcm18-331629.pdf

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    LadyG said:

    Yokes said:
    I bet it was Seamus Milne who concocted that phrase. He’s the classic posh, effete, public school Marxist who gets a tiny pathetic thrill out of martial class-war rhetoric, whereas in reality he’d be the first person running away to America to hide from Pol Pot
    More like those sad, sad fools who went to Cambodia to tour the Pol Pot regime. Some even made it back....
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
    I’m okay - but thanks. I believe I have survived my dark night of the soul. Now it is just bleak, despairing laughter, with a vague hope of survival at the end. That’ll do.
    It's a bloody awful business, to quote Lord Grantham.

    You were right months ago in your alter ego, despite the occasional mockery. We are in for a very torrid winter.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited October 2020
    Alistair said:
    *Giggles*

    Even Trafalgar have that for Biden...maybe they'll end up a with a D lean this election. ;)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    Any Labour MPs actually taking a #standwithJeremyCorbyn moment?
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    Florida CD 13 - StPetePolls - 1250 LV

    Biden 54 .. Trump 43

    Clinton was +3

    http://stpetepolls.org/files/StPetePolls_2020_CD13GEN_October28_EH39F.pdf
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,998
    edited October 2020
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    kle4 said:
    Massive donor to the Labour party?
    Hasn't Len already decided he doesn't want to donate "his" money to a Labour Party not run by a Corbynista?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    kle4 said:
    Massive donor to the Labour party?
    Hasn't Len already decided he doesn't want to donate "his" money to a Labour Party not run by a Corbynista?
    Yes. The announcement was made on 7th October.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Betting post:

    Dereck Chisora is 6.6 (bf) vs Usyk (1.19).

    Usyk is miles away the better boxer and, all things being equal, should run rings around Chisora, beat him easily on points and maybe even stop him in the later rounds.

    But...but...Usyk hasn't really proven himself against a true banging heavyweight and Chisora can bang, ask Carlos Takam. And if Chisora lands he can stop most people and certainly a cruiserweight.

    6.6 is just to long imo. And I have backed him (and the draw at 50s for luck) accordingly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    How can one take all steps to fight the antisemitism whilst believing it was exaggerated for political reasons, John? Not sure Jeremy's heart is really in it.
    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1321815831416889345
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    The phrase 'punching down' - seemingly beloved of trans activists and 'anti-racists' is a highly offensive one to begin with. Who says making jokes about transsexual people is 'punching down'?
  • LadyG said:

    Yokes said:
    I bet it was Seamus Milne who concocted that phrase. He’s the classic posh, effete, public school Marxist who gets a tiny pathetic thrill out of martial class-war rhetoric, whereas in reality he’d be the first person running away to America to hide from Pol Pot
    Do you think he'd get the horn at all those muscly Para types joining the the Churchill statchoo defenders?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:



    No. The isenheim altarpiece. A magnificent work of expressionism. 16th century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isenheim_Altarpiece

    We can all play that game.




    Believe it or not I was going to make the exact same reference (I just thought it would blunt the point). The finest cave art is as good as, and often strangely similar to, the purest Matisse or Picasso. Your example absolutely proves that.

    Interestingly cave art doesn’t get “better” - ie more representative. Chauvet, the earliest great example, has some of the “best”. It is 30,000 years old.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvet_Cave
    My visit to Font-du-Gaume, where you see the real thing not a reconstruction, was a paradigm-shifting experience for me. It smashes you over the head when you see it - people that long ago had all the intelligence we do.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020
    Ah, but they do say trump leads the remainder by 34 points so from that you can work out their implied turnout.

    So they think there will be 1.9 million more voters than the 2.7 million who have already voted.

    For a total votership of 4.6 million? Turnout in 2016 was 4.7 million.

    Yeah. No.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    The Harrying of the North continues.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54741041

    I thought the blue wall MPs were 'demanding an exit strategy'.

    So that's an exit from tier 2 to tier 3 I guess.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    I think she was saying how they (the hard Left) would see it but still it's a Marxist mess.

    It shows why (contrary to what I thought at the time) she wasn't ready to be leader and Starmer was the right choice.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
    I’m okay - but thanks. I believe I have survived my dark night of the soul. Now it is just bleak, despairing laughter, with a vague hope of survival at the end. That’ll do.
    It's a bloody awful business, to quote Lord Grantham.

    You were right months ago in your alter ego, despite the occasional mockery. We are in for a very torrid winter.
    Talking to yourself again Sean.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Yokes said:
    I bet it was Seamus Milne who concocted that phrase. He’s the classic posh, effete, public school Marxist who gets a tiny pathetic thrill out of martial class-war rhetoric, whereas in reality he’d be the first person running away to America to hide from Pol Pot
    Unlike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Caldwell
    Caldwell’s story has always intrigued me, in a sad way. Even sadder are the western sailors who accidentally tacked into Khmer Rouge Cambodian waters. Tortured, killed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Robert_Glass
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    She is stuck

    Critical Race Theory etc means that only prejudice against the down trodden counts as bad. So hating on private educated people, for example is OK. And minorities can't be racist, since that would be... "punching sideways"???

    The problem is that Jews, as a group, in the West, are not down trodden. In fact, many are wealthy and powerful.... so they shouldn't be classed as "down".

    But racism against Jews is still bad.

    So now "punching up" is problem....{fizzzzzzz} LOGIC ERROR! OUT OF CHEESE! REDO FROM START!
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
    I’m okay - but thanks. I believe I have survived my dark night of the soul. Now it is just bleak, despairing laughter, with a vague hope of survival at the end. That’ll do.
    It's a bloody awful business, to quote Lord Grantham.

    You were right months ago in your alter ego, despite the occasional mockery. We are in for a very torrid winter.
    Talking to yourself again Sean.
    No, she’s right. I was right.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    The phrase 'punching down' - seemingly beloved of trans activists and 'anti-racists' is a highly offensive one to begin with. Who says making jokes about transsexual people is 'punching down'?
    It's how Marxists see the world.

    Violence and abuse is acceptable to those perceived to be in a position of power.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    I did an improv class in Frederick MD. The lady teaching the class laid down that it is a golden rule in comedy that you don't punch down. So, it is not ok for white people to make jokes about black, or hispanics or jews, but it is ok to make jokes about Brits. When I asked if that meant Brits were superior to white Americans, she did not see the humour.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Alistair said:
    *Giggles*

    Even Trafalgar have that for Biden...maybe they'll end up a with a D lean this election. ;)
    So why is he going there?

    Isn;'t Obama heading to Michigan, of all places on Saturday?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
    I’m okay - but thanks. I believe I have survived my dark night of the soul. Now it is just bleak, despairing laughter, with a vague hope of survival at the end. That’ll do.
    It's a bloody awful business, to quote Lord Grantham.

    You were right months ago in your alter ego, despite the occasional mockery. We are in for a very torrid winter.
    Talking to yourself again Sean.
    I know that to a racist all Chinese people look alike and, perhaps, to a Philistine all writers are one but I'm not Sean. I think you probably know that and you're trying to rile me because you're ... well ... being a little bit sad.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    JACK_W said:

    North Carolina - UMASS/Lowell - 911 LV - 28/29 Oct

    Biden 48 .. Trump 48

    https://www.uml.edu/Research/public-opinion/polls/2020/NC-Oct.aspx

    Er...

    "As turnout in North Carolina is now above 81% of the total turnout in the 2016 election,1 it’s become clear that early voting has become a major part of the story. Among those who have already voted, Biden has a sizeable lead over Trump, 62% to 36%. Among those who had not voted when the field was conducted, Trump leads 64% to 30%. A clear story of this election is that Biden’s voters are voting and have voted and that the Trump campaign is counting on election day turnout to boost its numbers."

    Just how big does turnout have to be for Trump to claw back that 26% lead Biden appears to have in the votes already cast?
    Looking at the demographics, I would tend to bet on Trump in NC based on that poll. Interestingly there is no gender split at all, which contradicts what most pollsters are saying.

    https://www.uml.edu/docs/2020-NC-Oct-Topline_tcm18-331629.pdf

    image
    It is a cracking poll for Trump. It is making me consider taking my NC bet profit and walk g away. However it has turnout simply too low. There is not going to be less people voting in 2020 than 2016 in NC.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Oh, god. She really said that? Within living memory of Auschwitz. Jeez
  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    Similar story with Georgia. Very slight correlation between Clinton vote share and current turnout.


    The biggest problem with these correlations is the different sizes of the counties.
    Genuine question, is there any kind of uniformity with US counties? I know in sparsely-populated parts of the country they can be very large, but I presume the populations are still a lot more variable than, say, UK constituencies?
    The counties are administrative divisions, rather than electoral ones. Rather than comparing to Westminster constituencies, think of the local authorities that declared individual results for the Brexit referendum. They were all different sizes too for similar historical and local administration reasons.
    Correct.

    Note that largest county by population in US is Los Angeles County, California = 10,039,107 (est. 2019)

    Smallest county in population is Loving County, Texas = 134 (est. 2017)

    One thing to keep in mind on Election Night when looking at maps showing how candidates are doing in various states county-by-county, is that in many states, one or two counties with large population have MORE votes that a gaggle of small (in pop) counties.

    For example, PBers may remember the 2008 Missouri primary, where the difference between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton was quite small. As votes came in that night, almost all of the Show Me State's counties went for Hillary.

    Toward the end of the night, virtually all the votes had been reported from these hinterlands - and the REMAINING votes to be counted & reported were concentrated in two large counties: St Louis County (not the city but it's inner suburbs) and Jackson County (Kansas City, Mo). AND when these votes where posted, they put Obama over the top statewide.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
    I’m okay - but thanks. I believe I have survived my dark night of the soul. Now it is just bleak, despairing laughter, with a vague hope of survival at the end. That’ll do.
    It's a bloody awful business, to quote Lord Grantham.

    You were right months ago in your alter ego, despite the occasional mockery. We are in for a very torrid winter.
    Talking to yourself again Sean.
    No, she’s right. I was right.
    Can we not have a repeat of the February "we're all f*cked"/"we're all going to die" shtick please?

    We will have to lockdown hard again, and possibly for longer, and then the numbers will come right down again, it will soon be spring, and then hopefully a vaccine will be available.

    Let's not be needlessly despondent.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    The phrase 'punching down' - seemingly beloved of trans activists and 'anti-racists' is a highly offensive one to begin with. Who says making jokes about transsexual people is 'punching down'?
    It's how Marxists see the world.

    Violence and abuse is acceptable to those perceived to be in a position of power.
    Well, yes, the implication that abuse would be acceptable if it was aimed 'up' is also deplorable, but I was talking about the classification of transsexuals etc. as 'down' in the first place. It's highly offensive to whichever so-called 'down' group it is being used to refer to.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Lady G & others, my father was fortunate enough to go into Lascaux before it was closed in 1963. He spoke of it as one of the greatest experiences of his life. Decades later he would fall silent as he tried to describe it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited October 2020
    kle4 said:

    How can one take all steps to fight the antisemitism whilst believing it was exaggerated for political reasons, John? Not sure Jeremy's heart is really in it.
    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1321815831416889345

    John and Jeremy, a pair of yesterday's men, fighting yesterday's battles.

    John, I thought understood the ramifications of December 12th 2019 with his quip about a failed socialist revolution that didn't end in a sports stadium, Jeremy possibly still thinks he won.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    Alistair said:
    *Giggles*

    Even Trafalgar have that for Biden...maybe they'll end up a with a D lean this election. ;)
    So why is he going there?

    Isn;'t Obama heading to Michigan, of all places on Saturday?
    Why indeed.

    Yes, both Obama and Biden will be in Michigan.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Good God.

    No words.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    kicorse said:

    kinabalu said:


    Well sure. But the exchange was me responding to the charge that I am an antisemite for holding the view that Starmer expelling Corbyn risks internal party strife which could outweigh the political benefit. Found that a bit harsh and not really fair.

    Yeah, a lot of stuff flying around today.

    On your substantial point, from a purely party-political standpoint, I think suspending him was the right decision. Labour has to shake off the stink of anti-Semistism fast, and quietly eliminating it from the party won't be sufficient to do that.

    That said, Corbyn plainly has a blind spot on the issue (Angela Rayner's words) rather than holding anti-Semitic views himself, but it will long be claimed that this proves otherwise. Plus I detest the way that the left has co-opted the ultra-right term "zero tolerance".

    I've never believed that the ends justify the means, but successful politicians have to. Unjust but necessary may be the verdict?
    Hello again,

    I have always voted Labour but I joined the party because of Corbyn. Not the man - I like my potential PMs a little brighter and more contemporary - but the political direction his election indicated. At last (I thought) goodbye to timid tinkerism and cringing under the gaze of the likes of Murdoch, and a big and long overdue Hello to a serious intention - at least an intention - of changing this country so that the single biggest determinant of life prospects is no longer parental bank balance. So, ok, it's over. Fine. And probably a great decision here from Starmer since it shows he's ruthless and lazer focused on winning the next election. But I'm not punching the air about it. I just don't feel that way. I feel pretty muted.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    TimT said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:



    No. The isenheim altarpiece. A magnificent work of expressionism. 16th century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isenheim_Altarpiece

    We can all play that game.




    Believe it or not I was going to make the exact same reference (I just thought it would blunt the point). The finest cave art is as good as, and often strangely similar to, the purest Matisse or Picasso. Your example absolutely proves that.

    Interestingly cave art doesn’t get “better” - ie more representative. Chauvet, the earliest great example, has some of the “best”. It is 30,000 years old.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvet_Cave
    My visit to Font-du-Gaume, where you see the real thing not a reconstruction, was a paradigm-shifting experience for me. It smashes you over the head when you see it - people that long ago had all the intelligence we do.
    I’ve now been to all the major cave art sites (that are open, unlike Lascaux etc). Font de Gaume is spectacular. I also recommend pech merle and gargas (the creepy hands!)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    The phrase 'punching down' - seemingly beloved of trans activists and 'anti-racists' is a highly offensive one to begin with. Who says making jokes about transsexual people is 'punching down'?
    It's how Marxists see the world.

    Violence and abuse is acceptable to those perceived to be in a position of power.
    Well, yes, the implication that abuse would be acceptable if it was aimed 'up' is also deplorable, but I was talking about the classification of transsexuals etc. as 'down' in the first place. It's highly offensive to whichever so-called 'down' group it is being used to refer to.
    They want to overthrow the capitalist order - that's it.

    The working class have proved unreliable and so they think it might be more profitable to do it via weaponising race and identity instead.

    And, in terms of tactics, who's to say they're wrong?

    They've got much closer going down this route in mature Western democracies than I ever thought they would.
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Yokes said:
    I bet it was Seamus Milne who concocted that phrase. He’s the classic posh, effete, public school Marxist who gets a tiny pathetic thrill out of martial class-war rhetoric, whereas in reality he’d be the first person running away to America to hide from Pol Pot
    Unlike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Caldwell
    Caldwell’s story has always intrigued me, in a sad way. Even sadder are the western sailors who accidentally tacked into Khmer Rouge Cambodian waters. Tortured, killed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Robert_Glass
    I just Googled 'Western support for the Khmer Rouge", expecting to read about some useful idiot loony left types.

    Instead it appears the US and UK governments were supporting them, AFTER they'd committed the worst genocide post WW2.

    I must admit I was ignorant of this particular bit of modern UK history. Wow. Not a good look...

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2014/04/how-thatcher-gave-pol-pot-hand
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited October 2020
    kle4 said:

    Any Labour MPs actually taking a #standwithJeremyCorbyn moment?

    There are at least twenty who genuinely deserve to follow him into oblivion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    I just cannot see Texas happening. Would be nice to be wrong.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
    I’m okay - but thanks. I believe I have survived my dark night of the soul. Now it is just bleak, despairing laughter, with a vague hope of survival at the end. That’ll do.
    It's a bloody awful business, to quote Lord Grantham.

    You were right months ago in your alter ego, despite the occasional mockery. We are in for a very torrid winter.
    Talking to yourself again Sean.
    No, she’s right. I was right.
    Can we not have a repeat of the February "we're all f*cked"/"we're all going to die" shtick please?

    We will have to lockdown hard again, and possibly for longer, and then the numbers will come right down again, it will soon be spring, and then hopefully a vaccine will be available.

    Let's not be needlessly despondent.
    Why will we need to do that? It seems clear to me that nature in its benevolent wisdom is simply trying to get this disease through the system as fast as possible, and our utterly inept political class is, as usual, making things needlessly more difficult. I am sorry to be negative, but our policy toward health in this country is infantile and antediluvian, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that a global pandemic has simply highlighted these glaring deficiencies.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129

    kle4 said:

    How can one take all steps to fight the antisemitism whilst believing it was exaggerated for political reasons, John? Not sure Jeremy's heart is really in it.
    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1321815831416889345

    John and Jeremy, a pair of yesterday's men, fighting yesterday's battles.

    John, I thought understood the ramifications of December 22th 2019 with his quip about a failed socialist revolution that didn't end in a sports stadium, Jeremy possibly still thinks he won.
    I get the impression John actually cares about winning in an electoral sense, while for Jeremy that's a mild disappointment so long as you win where it matters: On twitter, and the hearts of your supporters.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    A dragline has started work in Liverpool.

    https://twitter.com/LenMcCluskey/status/1321875115798339584
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited October 2020

    Roger said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I'm Spartacus! I thought Corbyn was the worst leader Labour have ever had and from the moment he was elected I didn't think he had a snowball in Hell's chance of winning but I never believed and still don't that he 'has a racist bone in his body' to quote his son and there aren't many Party leaders i could say that about. Just a few examples Michael Howard (Gypsies etc) Margaret Thatcher (South Africa) Boris Johnson (Watermelons and pilarboxes) IDS (don't get me started........)
    Do you not think Corbyn is confused? Corbyn conflates Neatanyahu extremism with people like Margaret Hodge and Luciana Berger. Whether he means to or not is irrelevant. It is still anti-Semitic.

    I don't like seeing Israeli forces open automatic fire on Palestinian teenagers when one throws a stone at a soldier, but I don't blame Luciana Berger for the carnage.
    That's possible but it could equally be the other way round. Luciana Berger Margaret Hodge and Louise Ellman could be said to take criticism of Netanyahu and his government as anti Semitism. As could talking to Hezbollah-the closest thing to a socialist political party in Leabanon. During the 2014 Israeli invasion of Gaza where 2,200 Gazans were killed Louise Ellman chose to act as Israeli spokesperson for what amounted to a slaughter. She wouldn't hear a word said against Israel-she was known as MP for Tel Aviv- and it pissed off a lot of Labour supporters both Jew and Gentile alike
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Fuck. We are heading into the darkest of tunnels.

    Pb and its denizens can be variously irritating, boring or mad (including me) but we are all human and we are all facing something nearly incomprehensible in its scale and horror. A once in a century disaster.

    May God save us all. Or as many as He can manage.
    Phone a friend who makes you laugh.
    I’m okay - but thanks. I believe I have survived my dark night of the soul. Now it is just bleak, despairing laughter, with a vague hope of survival at the end. That’ll do.
    It's a bloody awful business, to quote Lord Grantham.

    You were right months ago in your alter ego, despite the occasional mockery. We are in for a very torrid winter.
    Talking to yourself again Sean.
    No, she’s right. I was right.
    Let's not be needlessly despondent.
    Sadly it's not entirely needless. Some realism is required but I take your point.

    Some of this situation was preventable. Alas, no more.

    I rarely come on here after my early morning fix and I generally now avoid all news channels after I've performed a dawn blitz. I find myself comfort viewing increasingly: benign shows like Downton Abbey, Midsomer Murders, Friends ... even Dad's Army.

    The US election is providing me with a lot of happy relief mainly because I'm confident I'm going to win and, far more importantly, so is common sense in America.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Lady G & others, my father was fortunate enough to go into Lascaux before it was closed in 1963. He spoke of it as one of the greatest experiences of his life. Decades later he would fall silent as he tried to describe it.

    Not to detract from the greatness of Lascaux but it has little to do with modern art which was as much an intellectual investigation into plasticity as anything else.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Yokes said:
    I bet it was Seamus Milne who concocted that phrase. He’s the classic posh, effete, public school Marxist who gets a tiny pathetic thrill out of martial class-war rhetoric, whereas in reality he’d be the first person running away to America to hide from Pol Pot
    Unlike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Caldwell
    Caldwell’s story has always intrigued me, in a sad way. Even sadder are the western sailors who accidentally tacked into Khmer Rouge Cambodian waters. Tortured, killed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Robert_Glass
    Yes - one opted into the insanity. The other accidentally fell into the abyss...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:



    No. The isenheim altarpiece. A magnificent work of expressionism. 16th century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isenheim_Altarpiece

    We can all play that game.




    Believe it or not I was going to make the exact same reference (I just thought it would blunt the point). The finest cave art is as good as, and often strangely similar to, the purest Matisse or Picasso. Your example absolutely proves that.

    Interestingly cave art doesn’t get “better” - ie more representative. Chauvet, the earliest great example, has some of the “best”. It is 30,000 years old.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvet_Cave
    See, you're fine talking about this sort of thing.

    It's quite interesting.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    kle4 said:

    I just cannot see Texas happening. Would be nice to be wrong.
    North Dakota and Montana go Dem but Hawaii is to close to call??????
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 435
    kle4 said:

    kicorse said:

    kinabalu said:


    Well sure. But the exchange was me responding to the charge that I am an antisemite for holding the view that Starmer expelling Corbyn risks internal party strife which could outweigh the political benefit. Found that a bit harsh and not really fair.

    That said, Corbyn plainly has a blind spot on the issue (Angela Rayner's words) rather than holding anti-Semitic views himself, but it will long be claimed that this proves otherwise.
    But when you are leader, a blind spot is a pretty glaringly big problem, as it means tackling the problem is impossible. Personality wise they could nto be more different, but like Trump he seems incapable of even acknowledging the possibility that he is part of the problem. Even when he might say it is his fault, his actions and other words show he doesn't really think that's possible.

    Not sure where things will go next though. Corbyn has always been a serial rebel but unlike some of his followers has been committed to the Labour brand. What happens when either his suspension is lifted, and Keir has to welcome him back, or he is told there is no path back until he retracts his statements?

    I'd have preferred it if you'd quoted my entire comment, which was not that long, rather than the one bit that can be taken as siding with Corbyn. I did also say that Labour needs to get rid of the stink of anti-Semitism and that it was the right decision in party political terms.

    Anyway, I agree with what you say. Blind-spots like this are why his leadership (aside from helping Labour regain its soul at the start), proved a disaster. Not relevant to his suspension from the party though.

    I don't think Starmer will have any trouble welcoming him back if that is the verdict. But if he makes further comments or isn't allowed back without a retraction, yeah, it'll be messy. If nothing else, it'll cost the party plenty of members.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    kle4 said:

    I just cannot see Texas happening. Would be nice to be wrong.
    Well that map is bollocks for a start. Trump has lost Pennsylvania.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Alistair said:
    *Giggles*

    Even Trafalgar have that for Biden...maybe they'll end up a with a D lean this election. ;)
    So why is he going there?

    Isn;'t Obama heading to Michigan, of all places on Saturday?
    Why indeed.

    Yes, both Obama and Biden will be in Michigan.
    But those states are in the bag as part of the blue wave, right?

    Penn too.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ..
    Yeah cos the Jews run all the banks and that

    SUSPEND NANDY!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    I wouldn't want to have a lot of money on Rashford for SPOTY...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    dr_spyn said:
    I'm Spartacus! I thought Corbyn was the worst leader Labour have ever had and from the moment he was elected I didn't think he had a snowball in Hell's chance of winning but I never believed and still don't that he 'has a racist bone in his body' to quote his son and there aren't many Party leaders i could say that about. Just a few examples Michael Howard (Gypsies etc) Margaret Thatcher (South Africa) Boris Johnson (Watermelons and pilarboxes) IDS (don't get me started........)
    Do you not think Corbyn is confused? Corbyn conflates Neatanyahu extremism with people like Margaret Hodge and Luciana Berger. Whether he means to or not is irrelevant. It is still anti-Semitic.

    I don't like seeing Israeli forces open automatic fire on Palestinian teenagers when one throws a stone at a soldier, but I don't blame Luciana Berger for the carnage.
    That's possible but it could equally be the other way round. Luciana Berger Margaret Hodge and Louise Ellman could be said to take criticism of Netanyahu and his government as anti Semitism. As could talking to Hezbollah-the closest thing to a socialist political party in Leabanon. During the 2014 Israeli invasion of Gaza where 2,200 Gazans were killed Louise Ellman chose to act as Israeli spokesperson for what amounted to a slaughter as did the Chief Rabbi and it pissed off a lot of Labour supporters both Jew and Gentile alike
    I am sorry Roger. I am right, I am not sure you are.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Gillian Anderson as Thatcher is simply superb. The hair. The mannerisms. THE VOICE.

    Gave me the horn.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiXEpminPms

    What a disturbing image.

    You can have my Kleenex CR, I won't be needing them any more.
    I once got a semi watching Princess Fiona in Shrek.

    Anyone match that?
    My grandma when I was just 8.

    She gave me a plate of gingernuts and it triggered something.
    A lifelong love of gingernuts I hope.
    Absolutely. To this day I find it very hard to say no to one.
    With a visible expression of anticipation presumably?
    :smile: - I'm afraid so.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    kle4 said:

    I just cannot see Texas happening. Would be nice to be wrong.
    Texas and Geogia maybe at a pinch, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee - really?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    kle4 said:

    I just cannot see Texas happening. Would be nice to be wrong.
    Well that map is bollocks for a start. Trump has lost Pennsylvania.
    Such a lost cause Trump is having three rallies there Saturday.

    Honestly, why is he bothering?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    dr_spyn said:

    A dragline has started work in Liverpool.

    https://twitter.com/LenMcCluskey/status/1321875115798339584

    I find the logic of this particular defence of Corbyn to be a bit flawed. By his own words, given he doesn't accept the extent of the problem the report identified, then despite his mealy mouthed words he personally was not in a position to move forward. Therefore, his suspension was itself necessary to move forward.
  • Alistair said:
    *Giggles*

    Even Trafalgar have that for Biden...maybe they'll end up a with a D lean this election. ;)
    So why is he going there?

    Isn;'t Obama heading to Michigan, of all places on Saturday?
    Why indeed.

    Yes, both Obama and Biden will be in Michigan.
    But those states are in the bag as part of the blue wave, right?

    Penn too.

    Perhaps they are wanting to avoid Hillary Clinton's mistakes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    edited October 2020

    kle4 said:

    I just cannot see Texas happening. Would be nice to be wrong.
    Well that map is bollocks for a start. Trump has lost Pennsylvania.
    Such a lost cause Trump is having three rallies there Saturday.

    Honestly, why is he bothering?
    He may or not be a lost cause there, but I do not understand how the number of rallies someone has in a place is a sign one way or another. People have praised Obama's campaign information, but campaigns don't always have good info, or use that info well, as Hilary demonstrated, so he could be 20 pts ahead or 20pts behind there, but if his info was crap he might still go there. Likewise, anywhere Biden goes doesn't necessarily say anything about the strength of his campaign. It's possible, but cannot be certain.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Campaign in the rust belt - going to lose them
    Campaogn outside the rust belt - loss of focus means Biden going to lose the rust belt.

    It's a perfect system
  • I have a personal statement to make.

    I've just come back from my uncle's funeral in Inverness, a sad event made grimmer by Covid and other elements (however that's not it). Turns out that through my Lewis gran I'm distantly related to The Donald, a common great x grandfather at some point in the 19th century, one of the MacLeods of Portvoller apparently.

    I have a single orange bristle in my beard, I'm hoping that's the only instance of common genetic inheritance.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129
    Given how much americans love their flag I am surprised at that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,129

    kle4 said:

    I just cannot see Texas happening. Would be nice to be wrong.
    Texas and Geogia maybe at a pinch, Mississippi, Alabama and Tennessee - really?
    Yes, I was so focused on one element I barely noticed some other...interesting parts.
  • I have a personal statement to make.

    I've just come back from my uncle's funeral in Inverness, a sad event made grimmer by Covid and other elements (however that's not it). Turns out that through my Lewis gran I'm distantly related to The Donald, a common great x grandfather at some point in the 19th century, one of the MacLeods of Portvoller apparently.

    I have a single orange bristle in my beard, I'm hoping that's the only instance of common genetic inheritance.

    Sorry for your loss.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Apparently Brexit is going wrong....

    "... a massive threat from the government's apparent determination to tear apart the USP of British food in order to strike trade deals in desperation"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-54736413

    (A majority of farmers voted "Leave")
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    I have a personal statement to make.

    I've just come back from my uncle's funeral in Inverness, a sad event made grimmer by Covid and other elements (however that's not it). Turns out that through my Lewis gran I'm distantly related to The Donald, a common great x grandfather at some point in the 19th century, one of the MacLeods of Portvoller apparently.

    I have a single orange bristle in my beard, I'm hoping that's the only instance of common genetic inheritance.

    Sorry to hear that (about your uncle).
  • Apparently Brexit is going wrong....

    "... a massive threat from the government's apparent determination to tear apart the USP of British food in order to strike trade deals in desperation"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-54736413

    (A majority of farmers voted "Leave")

    Suckers.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2020
    Farage has got it pickem, love it!

    Even his haters must appreciate the fact he has given his estimation of the fair value price and gone in at the bottom of the market to take the value
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    PB HISTORIANS: has any other major party in Britain suspended its immediately previous leader? I can’t think of an example. Any abroad in other democracies?

    UKIP?
    A thread on their leadership woes would be worth a good laugh, even though they are not major anymore.
    I was once quoted on Oddschecker in the "Next UKIP leader" market
    You were in the running ?
    No, it was Shadsy mucking about. I was in the running as a candidate in 2015 vs Emily Thornberry in Islington South

    EDIT But I decided not to bother
    Gosh, I did not know that. The real thing then.

    I will cease with the "West Ham" harassment forthwith.
    Ha no I'm not from Islington, I support The Arsenal because my Grandad, who was from Islington, did.
    Ah, nice. My dad took me week in week out for years when I was a small boy to Hillsborough to watch Sheffield Wednesday - the Owls - but all the time I secretly supported Man U. Not now though. These days I vastly prefer your 2 teams, the Arse and the Hammers, to Man U.
This discussion has been closed.