All of this could have been avoided: Follow the science Five Tiers (Low / Medium / High / Very High / Extremely High) Each tier has a specified set of rules that Do Not Change Government support for business and workers announced centrally at a VIABLE level Impose the tiers as demanded by the science by ringing the area and informing them
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
Well, I think the odds of the Blue Wall collapsing and going back to Labour for another generation are increasing
Manchester is not Red Wall, though, is it? Neither is Liverpool. Both are solid Labour, like London. The government's targeting is spot on so far. The real trouble will come if they treat the smaller towns that turned Blue the same way. I doubt they will.
But what this all puts to bed for all time is the notion that Johnson and Cummings have any interest in uniting the country. They actually need it as divided as possible and will govern in a way to ensure that it is.
While I agree that HMG should not be writing out cheques for a six month lockdown, this is a PR disaster for Boris and when you add in the refusal to grant free school meals for children during the holidays as requested by Marcus Rashford you do really have to wonder if they are being coached by Gérard Ratner
I would be very surprised if the polls do not show a marked crossover
No 10 needs a new PR representative, step forward Allegra
Number 10 blew all its stake money on outsourcing to its mates and furlough betting on there being no second wave. The gamble failed.
Several newspapers have recently quoted Jennifer Arcuri conceding that she did indeed have an affair with Boris Johnson and was 'bombarded by passion'. The Mirror reports that "the 35-year-old businesswoman has gone on record by alleging she had an affair with the current Prime Minister between 2012 and 2016 while he was the Mayor of London" The Mirror's report continues "But the Prime Minister avoided a criminal investigation after the police watchdog found no evidence he influenced the payment of thousands of pounds of public money to her, or secured her participation in foreign trade trips he led." In the light of these disclosures, is it perhaps possible or indeed likely that investigations into his conduct at the time will be re-opened. Certainly, further embarrassment for the Prime Minister appears certain with Ms Arcuri set to produce a film about their relationship.
A film? I'm thinking "When Jenny Met Boris", a romcom starring ... oh never mind. Why should we make light of this stuff. It's not funny really.
Not bad as "Beauty and the Beast" is already spoken for.
BTW, if B&TB was available, who would be who? Reckon that Boris naturally assume he ALWAYS gets top billing!
Shagger waffling when asked directly if the extra money is being given or not. So its absolutely clear that (a) it isn't on offer because (b) Shagger thinks he can make an example of uppity regional mayors.
Well, I think the odds of the Blue Wall collapsing and going back to Labour for another generation are increasing
Manchester is not Red Wall, though, is it? Neither is Liverpool. Both are solid Labour, like London. The government's targeting is spot on so far. The real trouble will come if they treat the smaller towns that turned Blue the same way. I doubt they will.
But what this all puts to bed for all time is the notion that Johnson and Cummings have any interest in uniting the country. They actually need it as divided as possible and will govern in a way to ensure that it is.
All of this could have been avoided: Follow the science Five Tiers (Low / Medium / High / Very High / Extremely High) Each tier has a specified set of rules that Do Not Change Government support for business and workers announced centrally at a VIABLE level Impose the tiers as demanded by the science by ringing the area and informing them
Its not rocket science.
I think it's even more simple, Rochdale. Pay people £1000 per week to stay indoors when they have the virus as well as proper job protections and priority delivery slots. Punitive fines for anyone who breaks isolation. That has a net R of about -0.5 that from reading studies done in Singapore and other countries who have implemented these policies. Nationally we're sitting at about R=1.1, in some areas it is 1 and others it is 1.4, making people isolate properly will bring the R below 1 almost everywhere in the country.
No need for a complicated and expensive to administer tier system that destroys jobs and creates loads of enmity between different regions.
Patriotic Tory MPs - if such things exist these days - are surely going to have to act sooner rather than later. The damage that Johnson and Cummings are doing to this country is immense and, more than anything else, totally unnecessary.
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
Patriotic Tory MPs - if such things exist these days - are surely going to have to act sooner rather than later. The damage that Johnson and Cummings are doing to this country is immense and, more than anything else, totally unnecessary.
They dont have the collective power, there is no party uniting rival. He may still step down next year, but probably more for personal reasons than being forced to politically. We are stuck with this shit for another 4 years.
All of this could have been avoided: Follow the science Five Tiers (Low / Medium / High / Very High / Extremely High) Each tier has a specified set of rules that Do Not Change Government support for business and workers announced centrally at a VIABLE level Impose the tiers as demanded by the science by ringing the area and informing them
Its not rocket science.
I pointed out when they announced variable T3 it was going to be a disaster. Not only will they get local resistance to one measure or anit5, but it will delay the implementation.
Patriotic Tory MPs - if such things exist these days - are surely going to have to act sooner rather than later. The damage that Johnson and Cummings are doing to this country is immense and, more than anything else, totally unnecessary.
I know a few North West Tory councillors and activists.
If their mood is accurate then the Tories won't be left with any council seats and MPs for a generation.
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
Patriotic Tory MPs - if such things exist these days - are surely going to have to act sooner rather than later. The damage that Johnson and Cummings are doing to this country is immense and, more than anything else, totally unnecessary.
Well, I think the odds of the Blue Wall collapsing and going back to Labour for another generation are increasing
Manchester is not Red Wall, though, is it? Neither is Liverpool. Both are solid Labour, like London. The government's targeting is spot on so far. The real trouble will come if they treat the smaller towns that turned Blue the same way. I doubt they will.
But what this all puts to bed for all time is the notion that Johnson and Cummings have any interest in uniting the country. They actually need it as divided as possible and will govern in a way to ensure that it is.
9 Tory Greater Manchester MPs so that's not right.
All of this could have been avoided: Follow the science Five Tiers (Low / Medium / High / Very High / Extremely High) Each tier has a specified set of rules that Do Not Change Government support for business and workers announced centrally at a VIABLE level Impose the tiers as demanded by the science by ringing the area and informing them
Its not rocket science.
The most important thing is to do react quickly. When you have a situation that can develop exponentially, it is vital that you get ahead of the curve and get measures into place at the first sign of increase. You simply can't afford to faff around waiting until the situation becomes intolerable before taking action.
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
The CMO's have just endorsed them
Who is the CMO?
Chris Whitty i think
JVT just now
'We cannot just allow our elderly to die'
And you are correct BJO
Nobody is saying 'let's just let the elderly die'. It is another straw man argument from SAGE.
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
The CMO's have just endorsed them
Who is the CMO?
Chris Whitty i think
JVT just now
'We cannot just allow our elderly to die'
And you are correct BJO
We have to sacrifice younger people to a massive upsurge in other diseases instead? To suicide, depression, unemployment, everlasting debt to those who remain?
Well, I think the odds of the Blue Wall collapsing and going back to Labour for another generation are increasing
Manchester is not Red Wall, though, is it? Neither is Liverpool. Both are solid Labour, like London. The government's targeting is spot on so far. The real trouble will come if they treat the smaller towns that turned Blue the same way. I doubt they will.
But what this all puts to bed for all time is the notion that Johnson and Cummings have any interest in uniting the country. They actually need it as divided as possible and will govern in a way to ensure that it is.
GM has 9 out of 27 Tory Mps. Most of them marginals. It is far from Merseyside or inner London.
All of this could have been avoided: Follow the science Five Tiers (Low / Medium / High / Very High / Extremely High) Each tier has a specified set of rules that Do Not Change Government support for business and workers announced centrally at a VIABLE level Impose the tiers as demanded by the science by ringing the area and informing them
Its not rocket science.
The most important thing is to do react quickly. When you have a situation that can develop exponentially, it is vital that you get ahead of the curve and get measures into place at the first sign of increase. You simply can't afford to faff around waiting until the situation becomes intolerable before taking action.
I don't know if it is still the case, but at one point Germany had a fairly simple approach. If cases / 100k rise above a certain level you move into a different level of restrictions straight away.
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
The CMO's have just endorsed them
Who is the CMO?
Chris Whitty i think
JVT just now
'We cannot just allow our elderly to die'
And you are correct BJO
Nobody is saying 'let's just let the elderly die'. It is another straw man argument from SAGE.
Well some lockdown sceptics have said just that, including @LadyG here.
Patriotic Tory MPs - if such things exist these days - are surely going to have to act sooner rather than later. The damage that Johnson and Cummings are doing to this country is immense and, more than anything else, totally unnecessary.
I know a few North West Tory councillors and activists.
If their mood is accurate then the Tories won't be left with any council seats and MPs for a generation.
Shagger repeatedly asked how much cash there is and repeatedly not answering. He's clearly decided to throw GM under the bus to try and score points off Labour/Burnham. You can practically write his attack lines for PMQs tomorrow.
But as you point out, there are a lot of Tory MPs and councillors in Greater Manchester, several of them newly won, and they have all been as scathing about this as Burnham.
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
The CMO's have just endorsed them
Who is the CMO?
Chris Whitty i think
JVT just now
'We cannot just allow our elderly to die'
And you are correct BJO
We have to sacrifice younger people to a massive upsurge in other diseases instead? To suicide, depression, unemployment, everlasting debt to those who remain?
Because that's the choice really, isn;t it?
No, that's not the choice. That's a strawman. We've already seen that those countries that have acted fast to contain the virus have, on the whole, benefitted both economically and socially. Dithering / ignoring the virus is more likely to result in both economic and social damage than acting promptly and decisively to deal with it.
One of Trumpsky's star recruits for "The Apprentice" was Omarosa, who was clearly bat-shit crazy from the get-go, and thus perfect for The Donald's entourage. Yours truly actually saw the lady in the flesh (suitably covered) in back of the bleachers at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, just one of the many celebrities wandering about, ranging from her (the ridiculous) to Jimmy Carter and the late, great John Lewis (the sublime).
Trump’s case against Omarosa exposes another problem: Unpaid legal bills The case is just one of many lingering court battles the campaign has launched but not completed with two weeks left before Election Day.
Donald Trump’s campaign wants Omarosa Manigault Newman to pay up for penning an incriminating tell-all book about the president in 2018. But it’s the Trump campaign that hasn’t paid its bills.
The delinquent $52,000 payment — revealed in a previously unreported letter dated Oct. 14 and obtained by POLITICO — is just one example of how the Trump campaign is handling the flurry of legal actions it has taken to both protect the president and attack his enemies in the final weeks of the campaign.
In some instances, the campaign is pressing ahead. In others, it has let the cases go dormant. The through line, however, is that the campaign has started a lot of fights in court, yet is not close to resolving them with just two weeks left until Election Day.
In the action against Manigault Newman, the campaign may simply let the case dissolve. In 2018, the Trump campaign filed an arbitration case against the former West Wing aide over her book, which rocked the White House with stories of Trump using lewd, sexist and racist language. At one point, Trump’s attorneys suggested Newman pay for a nearly $1 million ad campaign “to counteract the long-term adverse effects” of her remarks.
Yet the campaign has thus far stiffed the arbitrator assigned to mediate the case, according to a letter sent to the parties in the case. If Trump’s attorneys don’t pay the outstanding bill by next week, the case could be tossed out.
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
The CMO's have just endorsed them
Who is the CMO?
Chris Whitty i think
JVT just now
'We cannot just allow our elderly to die'
And you are correct BJO
We have to sacrifice younger people to a massive upsurge in other diseases instead? To suicide, depression, unemployment, everlasting debt to those who remain?
Because that's the choice really, isn;t it?
No, that's not the choice. That's a strawman. We've already seen that those countries that have acted fast to contain the virus have, on the whole, benefitted both economically and socially. Dithering / ignoring the virus is more likely to result in both economic and social damage than promptly and decisively dealing with it.
there's no containing the virus. Its a completely false concept. All you are doing is delaying the inevitable at vast expense
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change the fact it is not the Church of England and its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head was no longer the Pope. However the Church of England's very foundation depends on it being the established Church with the monarch as its Head.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
Nor did their sister in the Anglican [sic] Communion, the Episcopalian Church in Scotland, which is moreover an illegitimate offshoot of the Presbyterian Church (as they were at the time, which makes it ecclesia non grata by Conservative standards).
Sounds like Boris is saying the £60m is still on the table if Burnham agrees to it.
So why has he allowed Burnham to be live on TV receiving a text to say it isn't whilst being cheered by locals? Unless they expected folk to turn on Burnham? In which case they don't get Manchester. At all.
It's almost like people change their behaviour in response to health crises.
Arizona and Georgia cases are heading back up again!
Yes, you get natural waves.
And it's one compounded by the fact that there's a long lag between infe ction and numbers being recorded. (And, of course, the initial doublings don't look so big, it's only when the numbers have got to a certain level that people freak out.)
So, the numbers of infections are low, the hospitals are empty, people relax and go out. Cases don't appear to be rising, so they tell themselves that it's all OK.
People socialise.
Infections rise.
Suddenly cases are rising and hospitals start getting full again.
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
Nor did their sister in the Anglican [sic] Communion, the Episcopalian Church in Scotland, which is moreover an illegitimate offshoot of the Presbyterian Church (as they were at the time, which makes it ecclesia non grata by Conservative standards).
Nor have the Episcopalians rejoined the General Assembly. At least, not that I’ve heard.
Paton coming to the slow realisation that reported data are also a useful source of up-to-date information given the incomplete nature of case data by specimen date.
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
It would, as the Church of Ireland and Church of Wales were effectively created as new Churches within the Anglican umbrella, the Church of England though is by its very foundation stone based on the monarch as its Supreme Governor and being the established church, if that is removed it is no longer the Church of England and you either create a new Anglican church to replace it or it reverts to the supremacy of Rome
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
The CMO's have just endorsed them
Who is the CMO?
Chris Whitty i think
JVT just now
'We cannot just allow our elderly to die'
And you are correct BJO
We have to sacrifice younger people to a massive upsurge in other diseases instead? To suicide, depression, unemployment, everlasting debt to those who remain?
Because that's the choice really, isn;t it?
No, that's not the choice. That's a strawman. We've already seen that those countries that have acted fast to contain the virus have, on the whole, benefitted both economically and socially. Dithering / ignoring the virus is more likely to result in both economic and social damage than promptly and decisively dealing with it.
there's no containing the virus. Its a completely false concept. All you are doing is delaying the inevitable at vast expense
That's just not true.
You can argue that it's not worth it or other but this bad science just discounts your argument as ignorant. Of course you can contain the virus, whether you SHOULD is a far more important question to address.
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
Er, I thought it claimed to be Catholic and Reformed at the same time? Which leaves things even more tangled ...
Paton coming to the slow realisation that reported data are also a useful source of up-to-date information given the incomplete nature of case data by specimen date.
The WoW growth rate tells the story in cases, reporting date isn't really useful at all.
To my mind the most worrying part of that is the ZOE symptoms self reporting, it hasn't levelled off which means that cases are still rising at around 20-25% per week.
Remember when I said the Tiers were confusing and would lead to chaos and PB Tories told me I was being silly, I am sure they won't admit to their being wrong
The CMO's have just endorsed them
Who is the CMO?
Chris Whitty i think
JVT just now
'We cannot just allow our elderly to die'
And you are correct BJO
We have to sacrifice younger people to a massive upsurge in other diseases instead? To suicide, depression, unemployment, everlasting debt to those who remain?
Because that's the choice really, isn;t it?
No, that's not the choice. That's a strawman. We've already seen that those countries that have acted fast to contain the virus have, on the whole, benefitted both economically and socially. Dithering / ignoring the virus is more likely to result in both economic and social damage than promptly and decisively dealing with it.
there's no containing the virus. Its a completely false concept. All you are doing is delaying the inevitable at vast expense
Open your eyes and look outside the UK. Look at, for example, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan, Norway. They are doing a decent job of containing the virus, and their economies have fared substantially better than those that have failed to contain the virus.
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
It would, as the Church of Ireland and Church of Wales were effectively created as new Churches within the Anglican umbrella, the Church of England though is by its very foundation stone based on the monarch as its Supreme Governor and being the established church, if that is removed it is no longer the Church of England and you either create a new Anglican church to replace it or it reverts to the supremacy of Rome
What's wrong with appointing Justin + Cantuar as the Suipreme Governor, or a rotating convener Moderator-style? Why does it have to be the Queen (in principle) or Boris Johnson (in reality)? Might get away from Henry VIII's sex life if you do.
Sounds like Boris is saying the £60m is still on the table if Burnham agrees to it.
So why has he allowed Burnham to be live on TV receiving a text to say it isn't whilst being cheered by locals? Unless they expected folk to turn on Burnham? In which case they don't get Manchester. At all.
I think you're right. Boris's mega brain thought people would read this as Boris Being Strong and A Tough Negotiator. The main readout so far is Boris is stupid, mean and petulant.
How long until the reverse ferret? We haven't had a decent humiliating climbdown for weeks. (Was exam grades the last one?)
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
It would, as the Church of Ireland and Church of Wales were effectively created as new Churches within the Anglican umbrella, the Church of England though is by its very foundation stone based on the monarch as its Supreme Governor and being the established church, if that is removed it is no longer the Church of England and you either create a new Anglican church to replace it or it reverts to the supremacy of Rome
If you say so Hyufd.
You’re wrong, but that’s never stopped you in the past.
(All other considerations aside, have you forgotten that there is a Catholic diocesan structure in England now, separate from the Church of England? Or do you not realise that the ownership of Anglican church buildings is vested in the residents of he parish - weirdly, whether they are Anglicans or not?)
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
It would, as the Church of Ireland and Church of Wales were effectively created as new Churches within the Anglican umbrella, the Church of England though is by its very foundation stone based on the monarch as its Supreme Governor and being the established church, if that is removed it is no longer the Church of England and you either create a new Anglican church to replace it or it reverts to the supremacy of Rome
What's wrong with appointing Justin + Cantuar as the Suipreme Governor, or a rotating convener Moderator-style? Why does it have to be the Queen (in principle) or Boris Johnson (in reality)? Might get away from Henry VIII's sex life if you do.
As it would cease to be the Church of England that is why, the C of E's foundation stone was as the established church with the monarch as Supreme Governor, without that a new successor Anglican Church would have to be created or it would revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
It would, as the Church of Ireland and Church of Wales were effectively created as new Churches within the Anglican umbrella, the Church of England though is by its very foundation stone based on the monarch as its Supreme Governor and being the established church, if that is removed it is no longer the Church of England and you either create a new Anglican church to replace it or it reverts to the supremacy of Rome
What's wrong with appointing Justin + Cantuar as the Suipreme Governor, or a rotating convener Moderator-style? Why does it have to be the Queen (in principle) or Boris Johnson (in reality)? Might get away from Henry VIII's sex life if you do.
In practice, there would be two new churches in England if the Anglican Church were disestablished - the provinces of Canterbury and York.
But I imagine everyone would continue to refer loosely to ‘the church of England’.
Paton coming to the slow realisation that reported data are also a useful source of up-to-date information given the incomplete nature of case data by specimen date.
The WoW growth rate tells the story in cases, reporting date isn't really useful at all.
To my mind the most worrying part of that is the ZOE symptoms self reporting, it hasn't levelled off which means that cases are still rising at around 20-25% per week.
But you can have WoW values by reporting date. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. And as Paton has admitted, the latest data by reporting date shows that cases are actually rising rather than flat.
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
It would, as the Church of Ireland and Church of Wales were effectively created as new Churches within the Anglican umbrella, the Church of England though is by its very foundation stone based on the monarch as its Supreme Governor and being the established church, if that is removed it is no longer the Church of England and you either create a new Anglican church to replace it or it reverts to the supremacy of Rome
What's wrong with appointing Justin + Cantuar as the Suipreme Governor, or a rotating convener Moderator-style? Why does it have to be the Queen (in principle) or Boris Johnson (in reality)? Might get away from Henry VIII's sex life if you do.
In practice, there would be two new churches in England if the Anglican Church were disestablished - the provinces of Canterbury and York.
But I imagine everyone would continue to refer loosely to ‘the church of England’.
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
It would, as the Church of Ireland and Church of Wales were effectively created as new Churches within the Anglican umbrella, the Church of England though is by its very foundation stone based on the monarch as its Supreme Governor and being the established church, if that is removed it is no longer the Church of England and you either create a new Anglican church to replace it or it reverts to the supremacy of Rome
If you say so Hyufd.
You’re wrong, but that’s never stopped you in the past.
(All other considerations aside, have you forgotten that there is a Catholic diocesan structure in England now, separate from the Church of England? Or do you not realise that the ownership of Anglican church buildings is vested in the residents of he parish - weirdly, whether they are Anglicans or not?)
The Vatican still considers the Church of England just a branch of the Catholic Church which has lost its way and until the Reformation most residents of the parish were Catholic
... Or do you not realise that the ownership of Anglican church buildings is vested in the residents of he parish - weirdly, whether they are Anglicans or not?
Interesting, I didn't know that. So we can sell them off and divvi up the proceeds?
Guido is talking rubbish, the Church of England was created as a breakaway from the Catholic Church by Henry VIII so by definition it has to be the established Church with the monarch as its head otherwise as it is still a 'holy Catholic and apostolic church' it would effectively revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
Er...you mean like the Methodist church?
The Methodist church is non conformist, not the established church.
The Queen is also not Supreme Governor of the Methodist Church
I think you will find the Methodist Church in England (not in Wales where it was different) was formed by a breakaway from the Church of England in the late eighteenth century.
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
That does not change its Head is not the monarch, just as once the Church of England left the Catholic Church its head is no longer the Pope.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
But my point is, removing the queen as SG would not make it catholic again. Which, if I have understood correctly, was your original claim.
It would, as the Church of Ireland and Church of Wales were effectively created as new Churches within the Anglican umbrella, the Church of England though is by its very foundation stone based on the monarch as its Supreme Governor and being the established church, if that is removed it is no longer the Church of England and you either create a new Anglican church to replace it or it reverts to the supremacy of Rome
What's wrong with appointing Justin + Cantuar as the Suipreme Governor, or a rotating convener Moderator-style? Why does it have to be the Queen (in principle) or Boris Johnson (in reality)? Might get away from Henry VIII's sex life if you do.
As it would cease to be the Church of England that is why, the C of E's foundation stone was as the established church with the monarch as Supreme Governor, without that a new successor Anglican Church would have to be created or it would revert to its Supreme Head being the Pope
So basically Henry VIII's sex life is the really, really important thing?
This is utterly mindblowing from a Scottish perspective, where the entire trend of Scottish history was to keep kings' and lairds' paws off the kirk, which was guaranteed in the Treaty of Union.
I'd like to see the court cases arising from yoiur assertion that the C of E woul;d revert to the Papacy, in view of what ydoethur says - make the rows between the various Presbyterian splits as to who got what look like an aquarium of kissing gourami by comparison.
Cases look terrible, though was @MaxPB's hypothesis proven correct?
Err.... Murder Tuesday, remember. Just like the last 6 months.....
Something a bit strange in the figures today though. The turnaround times for tests seems to have improved significantly - normally in England there are almost non processed within 24-48 hours (in Northern Ireland almost all are).
Comments
Follow the science
Five Tiers (Low / Medium / High / Very High / Extremely High)
Each tier has a specified set of rules that Do Not Change
Government support for business and workers announced centrally at a VIABLE level
Impose the tiers as demanded by the science by ringing the area and informing them
Its not rocket science.
But what this all puts to bed for all time is the notion that Johnson and Cummings have any interest in uniting the country. They actually need it as divided as possible and will govern in a way to ensure that it is.
https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1318589577356075008?s=20
The gamble failed.
BTW, if B&TB was available, who would be who? Reckon that Boris naturally assume he ALWAYS gets top billing!
That should help
No need for a complicated and expensive to administer tier system that destroys jobs and creates loads of enmity between different regions.
Chris Whitty i think
Good to see Nottingham figures dropping. Let's hope there is no more talk of Tier 3 for the city now that that is happening.
If their mood is accurate then the Tories won't be left with any council seats and MPs for a generation.
'We cannot just allow our elderly to die'
And you are correct BJO
This is madness.
Zeolatry frankly.
Yet evidence suggests he is much more akin to another PM predecessor - Lord North. Who according to history was also a funny guy.
Because that's the choice really, isn;t it?
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1318592759717154818?s=20
At what point do Tory MPs make a move?
I would also point out the Church of Ireland and Church in Wales are both disestablished (in 1869 and 1920 respectively) and while neither have the Queen as Supreme Governor neither seem to have resumed papal authority.
We may see a new type of politics. I really hope we do
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1318593941479051264?s=20
But as you point out, there are a lot of Tory MPs and councillors in Greater Manchester, several of them newly won, and they have all been as scathing about this as Burnham.
If you want to go back to your life, make money and pursue happiness and forget the whole effing thing vote Republican.
Its a clear choice. And one reason why the election is huge.
One of Trumpsky's star recruits for "The Apprentice" was Omarosa, who was clearly bat-shit crazy from the get-go, and thus perfect for The Donald's entourage. Yours truly actually saw the lady in the flesh (suitably covered) in back of the bleachers at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, just one of the many celebrities wandering about, ranging from her (the ridiculous) to Jimmy Carter and the late, great John Lewis (the sublime).
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/20/trumps-case-omarosa-problem-unpaid-legal-bills-430237
Trump’s case against Omarosa exposes another problem: Unpaid legal bills
The case is just one of many lingering court battles the campaign has launched but not completed with two weeks left before Election Day.
Donald Trump’s campaign wants Omarosa Manigault Newman to pay up for penning an incriminating tell-all book about the president in 2018. But it’s the Trump campaign that hasn’t paid its bills.
The delinquent $52,000 payment — revealed in a previously unreported letter dated Oct. 14 and obtained by POLITICO — is just one example of how the Trump campaign is handling the flurry of legal actions it has taken to both protect the president and attack his enemies in the final weeks of the campaign.
In some instances, the campaign is pressing ahead. In others, it has let the cases go dormant. The through line, however, is that the campaign has started a lot of fights in court, yet is not close to resolving them with just two weeks left until Election Day.
In the action against Manigault Newman, the campaign may simply let the case dissolve. In 2018, the Trump campaign filed an arbitration case against the former West Wing aide over her book, which rocked the White House with stories of Trump using lewd, sexist and racist language. At one point, Trump’s attorneys suggested Newman pay for a nearly $1 million ad campaign “to counteract the long-term adverse effects” of her remarks.
Yet the campaign has thus far stiffed the arbitrator assigned to mediate the case, according to a letter sent to the parties in the case. If Trump’s attorneys don’t pay the outstanding bill by next week, the case could be tossed out.
The Church of Ireland represents the Republic of Ireland too and the Church of Wales is closer to the Methodist Church than the Church of England
Unless they expected folk to turn on Burnham?
In which case they don't get Manchester. At all.
And it's one compounded by the fact that there's a long lag between infe ction and numbers being recorded. (And, of course, the initial doublings don't look so big, it's only when the numbers have got to a certain level that people freak out.)
So, the numbers of infections are low, the hospitals are empty, people relax and go out. Cases don't appear to be rising, so they tell themselves that it's all OK.
People socialise.
Infections rise.
Suddenly cases are rising and hospitals start getting full again.
And people lock themselves down again.
Rinse and repeat.
If you want to have Covid in your life vote Democrat.
If you want to have Covid take your life vote Republican.
And then black turned up.
(Yes, I know there’s no blue in roulette, but the joke doesn’t work otherwise.)
You can argue that it's not worth it or other but this bad science just discounts your argument as ignorant. Of course you can contain the virus, whether you SHOULD is a far more important question to address.
To my mind the most worrying part of that is the ZOE symptoms self reporting, it hasn't levelled off which means that cases are still rising at around 20-25% per week.
https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1318597440598061059
But most of the electorate is not.
Boris's mega brain thought people would read this as Boris Being Strong and A Tough Negotiator.
The main readout so far is Boris is stupid, mean and petulant.
How long until the reverse ferret? We haven't had a decent humiliating climbdown for weeks. (Was exam grades the last one?)
ie We will have to roll with the extra deaths that an earlier lockdown would have prevented.
You’re wrong, but that’s never stopped you in the past.
(All other considerations aside, have you forgotten that there is a Catholic diocesan structure in England now, separate from the Church of England? Or do you not realise that the ownership of Anglican church buildings is vested in the residents of he parish - weirdly, whether they are Anglicans or not?)
But I imagine everyone would continue to refer loosely to ‘the church of England’.
This is utterly mindblowing from a Scottish perspective, where the entire trend of Scottish history was to keep kings' and lairds' paws off the kirk, which was guaranteed in the Treaty of Union.
I'd like to see the court cases arising from yoiur assertion that the C of E woul;d revert to the Papacy, in view of what ydoethur says - make the rows between the various Presbyterian splits as to who got what look like an aquarium of kissing gourami by comparison.
BBC News - 'Absolute carnage' at Thorpe Park Fright Night
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54617387
Keir is winning