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Ipsos MORI Politics + Society podcast. Scotland: Yes is winning so what happens now? – politicalbett

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  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    How many days is it since you told us central London was back in business?

    How many hours since I told you it was day? I dunno. Three? Now it is night.
  • Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    You know that bit in 1984 about how wars- real wars, I mean, they type with winners and losers- were important at keeping rulers vaguely in touch with reality? Because incompetence and delusion led to defeat?

    Pandemics do much the same.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    So does our government have a fecking clue what they are doing with Manchester?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    PB is stocked with Shy Trumpets but part of the thing about being a shy Trumpet is not revealing your Trumpet nature.
    So who do you have down as closet PB Trumpers, Alistair? I have Malcolm G and Mr Meekes as certainties. Nick Palmer is a possible but he hides it well. OGH must be under suspicion too, if only because of the hair style.

    Any others you can think of?
    I am a shy Trumper the day after a Lamb Madras....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    edited October 2020
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
    It is not part of it. Look at the Electoral Commission registewrs. Separate accounting and all that. In contrast to the Labour Party's Scottish element.
    It is, Boris Johnson remains head of the UK Conservative Party, hence Scottish Conservative Party members had a vote when he was elected UK Tory leader.

    It is not yet a separate sister party as say the Bavarian CSU is to the German CDU
    So why does it have a different name on the electoral ballot?
    It has the name Conservative on the ballot, same as the party does in England and Wales, just in Scotland it also emphasises it is the Unionist party as its main opponent is the SNP whereas in England and Wales the Tories main opponent is Labour
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    I was not disagreeing with her.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    The second wave is entirely out of control across Europe.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341

    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    Possibly, people are OK if we're all in it together, but a lot less OK with some areas suffering (and the suffering is genuine) when others aren't.

    Precision-targeted controls might be one of those things that sound efficient and scientific in theory, but are tricky to manage if you apply them to real people. (Ask teachers or army officers.) I'm not saying that they're not worth doing if done well, but that requires more narration and team-ego-buffing than this government has been bothered to do.
    Lots of people enjoyed the lockdown; lots of people support a lockdown form others while you yourself have time and space to do what you like.

    I imagine real and actual support for it would depend on the furlough scheme, which eased the strain quite a bit at the time.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    It is rumoured that the UK is inching towards an accommodation with the EU on state aid. then I would hope that we secure a role in determining what principles lie behind the policy and how they work in practice. The
    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Have you been scorned?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,592

    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    JHB moves in strange circles
    The lady who couldn't believe, in 1984, that Reagan won, because everyone she knew was voting for Mondale comes to mind.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    edited October 2020
    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112
    edited October 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
    It is not part of it. Look at the Electoral Commission registewrs. Separate accounting and all that. In contrast to the Labour Party's Scottish element.
    It is, Boris Johnson remains head of the UK Conservative Party, hence Scottish Conservative Party members had a vote when he was elected UK Tory leader.

    It is not yet a separate sister party as say the Bavarian CSU is to the German CDU
    So why does it have a different name on the electoral ballot?
    It has the name Conservative under the ballot, same as the party does in England and Wales, just in Scotland it also emphasises it is the Unionist party as its main opponent is the SNP whereas in England and Wales the Tories main opponent is Labour
    So? In your FRG exampe the same words also occur in both. And the SCUP's name dates from when its main opponent in Scotland was also Labour.

    What you are effectively saying is that the SCUP party is not separate from the London one - and thertefore it is committing a fraud on the public by pretending to be separate from the London one.

    If it's a Unionist party, why is it so frightened and ashamed of doing the logical thing and being seen up front to be one and the same with your party?

    At least Labour have that honesty, though not in terms of the electoral ballot either.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    PB is stocked with Shy Trumpets but part of the thing about being a shy Trumpet is not revealing your Trumpet nature.
    So who do you have down as closet PB Trumpers, Alistair? I have Malcolm G and Mr Meekes as certainties. Nick Palmer is a possible but he hides it well. OGH must be under suspicion too, if only because of the hair style.

    Any others you can think of?
    Mr Ed's been spending a lot of time posting a lot of on the fence balanced interpretations of how the election might go, but ... i think a possible.
  • LadyG said:

    The second wave is entirely out of control across Europe.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    I blame Big Dom....
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,741


    So who do you have down as closet PB Trumpers, Alistair? I have Malcolm G and Mr Meekes as certainties. Nick Palmer is a possible but he hides it well. OGH must be under suspicion too, if only because of the hair style.

    Any others you can think of?

    There are those who would view a surprise Trump re-election victory as a good opportunity to have a jolly good laugh and gloat at "the Lefties" who have railed against Trump and all his works since before his election.

    Most aren't Trump supporters but just enjoy watching the "woke" getting their come-uppance - that's all.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    One thing that should perhaps be considered is how schools will continue to function under the current horrible restrictions over the next seven weeks to Christmas.

    Let’s be clear - the system is under acute strain. Keeping adolescents in one place for five or six hours at a stretch is not a good idea. In fact, it is a bloody awful idea. It might work at Badminton or Roedean but not in an inner city state school. Already, the discipline is deteriorating. Without going into details, I’m getting reports of actual violence in schools.

    At the same time, the staff are worn out. One teacher of my acquaintance did 17,000 steps in one day. That’s a lot. It’s even worse when carrying all your equipment. Trying then to control thirty restless children, only by voice and force of personality, five times is very draining. It is disconcerting to note that the number of jobs available on TES has suddenly exploded.

    A two week break for schools in October, gained by shortening the summer holidays, is actually always a sensible idea. After all, the half term I finish next week is nearly as long as the whole Easter term. But if we have to try and do this again on only a week’s break, the staff sick list will rocket - especially as the weather deteriorates. Which would rather defeat the object of these quarantine measures.

    So there are other practical considerations worth considering too.
    That's actually the first sensible reason I've seen for a two week half term with schools closing.
  • HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    I can't work out if HYUFD's support for Biden is "if he was an American", or as a Brit? Because he's been perfectly clear that the UK's hopes of a trade deal rest on a Trump victory.

    It was only if I was an American, as I have said from a post Brexit UK point of view a Trump win would make a US FTA easier
    Think the notion that post-Brexit UK-USA trade deal would be easier under 2nd Trumpsky administration is poppycock.

    First, because Biden is NOT anti-British and is PRO-trade, plus he's a born negotiator; if elected he will want to ensure strong economic ties with both UK and EU.

    Second, because Trumpky's "art of the deal" is based almost totally on lying, cheating and stealing the other guy blind; AND if that doesn't work, just renege, go bankrupt, whatever.

    SO dealing with Biden is dealing with a normal US President; dealing with Trumpky is like emulating Chamberlain.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Central Newcastle was heaving with OAPs today
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,702
    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    This market town is shutting down after tomorrow night.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    LadyG said:

    The second wave is entirely out of control across Europe.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    The figures for Poland are striking. They were one of the few countries that was largely unscathed by the first wave, but not now...

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Hot suburban broth will save us!

    Sadly, it won't. The sensitive eco-system that is/was a world city like London provided a huge chunk of the UK's tax income, and basically kept the UK rather wealthy in a way that was unjustified by the productivity of the rest of the nation.

    Is it good that London will now be levelled down? Perhaps: emotionally/spiritually/socialistically. But the government's wish was, wisely, to Level Up.

    This isn't going to happen. We are about to see how the UK does without London as an engine. I am sure we will survive, and eventually thrive, but the short-medium term will be cruelly painful, and not just for Londoners: for everyone. Perhaps even more for those outside London who, unwittingly, depended on the capital's economic dynamism for support.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    I can't work out if HYUFD's support for Biden is "if he was an American", or as a Brit? Because he's been perfectly clear that the UK's hopes of a trade deal rest on a Trump victory.

    It was only if I was an American, as I have said from a post Brexit UK point of view a Trump win would make a US FTA easier
    Think the notion that post-Brexit UK-USA trade deal would be easier under 2nd Trumpsky administration is poppycock.

    First, because Biden is NOT anti-British and is PRO-trade, plus he's a born negotiator; if elected he will want to ensure strong economic ties with both UK and EU.

    Second, because Trumpky's "art of the deal" is based almost totally on lying, cheating and stealing the other guy blind; AND if that doesn't work, just renege, go bankrupt, whatever.

    SO dealing with Biden is dealing with a normal US President; dealing with Trumpky is like emulating Chamberlain.
    Quite. The record of Mr Trump trying to get what he wanted out of Mr Salmond re the golf course development was a revelation, and left the Scots very pessimistic about anything to do with Mr T.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
  • HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    Occasionally, but not as a rule no.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I used to. Almost daily. Before the bug. Now it's f/f/k daily (from the community store aka hamster food shop, given its emphasis on the tofu and organic side, so it's been better for me actually).
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    edited October 2020

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
    It's a bit like this

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/full-brexit-history

    only this list covers years and the Russ one covers a few days. You couldn't, as they say, make it up.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    68% of people asked support it. That is not the same as 68% of the population.
    Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, pollsters!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    68% of people asked support it. That is not the same as 68% of the population.
    Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, pollsters!
    Did you get your test result?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I used to. Almost daily. Before the bug. Now it's f/f/k daily (from the community store aka hamster food shop, given its emphasis on the tofu and organic side, so it's been better for me actually).
    I'm not convinced of the efficacy of Tofu. Organic I'm with you on.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,853
    edited October 2020

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I've worked from home for a number of years. I used to go out once a week for lunch and an hour's walk during the winter when there was no daylight to be had otherwise.

    Not now, though, I'm sorry to say. Well, at least not the lunch bit anyway.
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    I can't work out if HYUFD's support for Biden is "if he was an American", or as a Brit? Because he's been perfectly clear that the UK's hopes of a trade deal rest on a Trump victory.

    It was only if I was an American, as I have said from a post Brexit UK point of view a Trump win would make a US FTA easier
    Think the notion that post-Brexit UK-USA trade deal would be easier under 2nd Trumpsky administration is poppycock.

    First, because Biden is NOT anti-British and is PRO-trade, plus he's a born negotiator; if elected he will want to ensure strong economic ties with both UK and EU.

    Second, because Trumpky's "art of the deal" is based almost totally on lying, cheating and stealing the other guy blind; AND if that doesn't work, just renege, go bankrupt, whatever.

    SO dealing with Biden is dealing with a normal US President; dealing with Trumpky is like emulating Chamberlain.
    Quite. The record of Mr Trump trying to get what he wanted out of Mr Salmond re the golf course development was a revelation, and left the Scots very pessimistic about anything to do with Mr T.
    Way back in 1989 spent several months working in southern New Jersey near Atlantic City. Back then the locals were (mostly) singing the praises of The Donald for "saving" AC.

    They learned the hard way what a crock THAT was, and what a crook is Trumpsky.
  • LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
    You're right there's no need to read it all, its ranty bollocks by someone who writes ranty bollocks like this all the time.

    I mean seriously it starts with this: "1. Boris Johnson announced a new 3 Tier lockdown system, with the lowest Tier being “medium”, like at McDonalds" - as if lowest being medium like at McDonalds is a bad thing. Its not, there's no areas with low risk at the minute that is the point, the lowest risk is medium right now because in case muppets like Russ haven't noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

    Oh and McDonalds serve small genius. Its what they put in their Happy Meals or you can order it separately.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    alex_ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    68% of people asked support it. That is not the same as 68% of the population.
    Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, pollsters!
    Did you get your test result?
    Yes, negative, thanks. 46 hours after the test.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Cyclefree said:

    Yes I’m furious. And I make no apologies for it. People with not a shred of decency, integrity, competence or common-sense between them are destroying my children’s futures. While shovelling money at their friends.

    And I am like the proverbial lioness with cubs with anyone, anyone, who harms or tries to harm my children. I’m not interested in writing letters to MPs anymore so that some idiot intern can read and file and send some bland reply. I want them to hear my anger, to see my anger, to understand what they're doing and feel, even for one instance, some sense of shame for their actions.

    I normally try to be polite. But when I’m angry, I’m really angry. Volcanoes would have a hard time keeping up. And this is one of those times.

    The problem is that the shallow twerps in charge will not listen because you are not part of their clique. They have their "Useful Idiots" parroting support for them, but when push comes to shove, the Useful Idiots will get little support either.

    They have taken back control alright :D:D and like all corrupt regimes, as long as they can fill their own bank accounts they no longer give a f--- about the rest of us.

    I am not sure what it will take to get rid of this shower, but I am fairly certain that things will be getting worse before they get better.
  • Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    That is scarily brilliant!

    Why are Amazon exempt from the digital tax? The waste, incompetence, kleptocracy and corruption I have come to expect but don't understand the Amazon exemption?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    LadyG said:

    The second wave is entirely out of control across Europe.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    It almost seems to me like nature being far more sensible than our daft Governments and populations. Sort of saying - I'm going to get this through the system, regardless of how you fart about.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    LadyG said:

    The second wave is entirely out of control across Europe.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    It almost seems to me like nature being far more sensible than our daft Governments and populations. Sort of saying - I'm going to get this through the system, regardless of how you fart about.
    It does basically seem that all the f*rting about of Governments is doing is to guarantee that the pandemic makes it into next summer and beyond when it is hard to find any pandemic of equivalent nature throughout history that has lasted more than a year.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542
    Very interesting podcast. Well worth a listen. Takeaway is that the new Yes supporters are mostly women of all ages who took a more pragmatic risk approach back in 2014. The issue that resonated with me was a huge lack of trust amongst Scots for Westminster and the Johnson government.

    It does look like the end of the United Kingdom to me. I don't see the Conservatives changing from being the party of English nationalists and they have a partisan interest in denying any popular will in Scotland for independence, to show up Labour as the party in England that would break up the UK. Effectively othering the SNP and the nation of Scotland. That might stave off independence for a while but guarantees it eventually.

    Also the next couple of years will be grim.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
    You're right there's no need to read it all, its ranty bollocks by someone who writes ranty bollocks like this all the time.
    Pot. Kettle....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    That is scarily brilliant!

    Why are Amazon exempt from the digital tax? The waste, incompetence, kleptocracy and corruption I have come to expect but don't understand the Amazon exemption?
    Given that we're in trade talks with the US, it makes more sense to have them being very badly affected, so it becomes a bargaining chip. Having them exempt now makes zero sense.

    Regarding the original post, I don't want apoplexy, so I won't read the Twitter thread - I apply the same principle to Twitter in its entirety.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    HYUFD said:

    First episode of the 'Trump Show' looking back at the Trump presidency on BBC2 now

    It makes 'Being There' with Peter Sellers look like a documentary.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
    You're right there's no need to read it all, its ranty bollocks by someone who writes ranty bollocks like this all the time.

    I mean seriously it starts with this: "1. Boris Johnson announced a new 3 Tier lockdown system, with the lowest Tier being “medium”, like at McDonalds" - as if lowest being medium like at McDonalds is a bad thing. Its not, there's no areas with low risk at the minute that is the point, the lowest risk is medium right now because in case muppets like Russ haven't noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

    Oh and McDonalds serve small genius. Its what they put in their Happy Meals or you can order it separately.
    Why would a sensible system contemplate only states of affairs which obtain right now? US Defcons and UK threat levels cover the ground from lowest possible, to nuclear war in progress. It would do us all good to have the sunlit uplands of Tier Happymeal dangled before us.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    alex_ said:

    LadyG said:

    The second wave is entirely out of control across Europe.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

    It almost seems to me like nature being far more sensible than our daft Governments and populations. Sort of saying - I'm going to get this through the system, regardless of how you fart about.
    It does basically seem that all the f*rting about of Governments is doing is to guarantee that the pandemic makes it into next summer and beyond when it is hard to find any pandemic of equivalent nature throughout history that has lasted more than a year.
    Yes, silly people. Oh well. Happily, covid doesn't really affect my daily life too much beyond mask wearing and handwashing, I'm super busy and I've long since stopped watching any of the silly press conferences from either the UK or Scottish Governments. I'm the happier (and probably healthier) for it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    That is scarily brilliant!

    Why are Amazon exempt from the digital tax? The waste, incompetence, kleptocracy and corruption I have come to expect but don't understand the Amazon exemption?
    They will only pay tax on the revenue they earn from third party sellers. They have already told third party sellers that they will increase the fees charged to them to take account of this. So this digital tax will screw over small sellers and help Amazon.

    Absolute fucking genius!!
  • IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
    You're right there's no need to read it all, its ranty bollocks by someone who writes ranty bollocks like this all the time.

    I mean seriously it starts with this: "1. Boris Johnson announced a new 3 Tier lockdown system, with the lowest Tier being “medium”, like at McDonalds" - as if lowest being medium like at McDonalds is a bad thing. Its not, there's no areas with low risk at the minute that is the point, the lowest risk is medium right now because in case muppets like Russ haven't noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

    Oh and McDonalds serve small genius. Its what they put in their Happy Meals or you can order it separately.
    Why would a sensible system contemplate only states of affairs which obtain right now? US Defcons and UK threat levels cover the ground from lowest possible, to nuclear war in progress. It would do us all good to have the sunlit uplands of Tier Happymeal dangled before us.
    Because this system is only for during the pandemic. Once the pandemic is over then it would be uncontroversial to go to Tier Zero (no restrictions).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708

    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    JHB moves in strange circles
    The lady who couldn't believe, in 1984, that Reagan won, because everyone she knew was voting for Mondale comes to mind.
    I think that was could not believe Nixon won in 1972, everyone she knew voted for McGovern
  • HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    JHB moves in strange circles
    The lady who couldn't believe, in 1984, that Reagan won, because everyone she knew was voting for Mondale comes to mind.
    I think that was could not believe Nixon won in 1972, everyone she knew voted for McGovern
    Or those that could not believe Boris won in 2019, everyone they knew voted for Corbyn.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    That is scarily brilliant!

    Why are Amazon exempt from the digital tax? The waste, incompetence, kleptocracy and corruption I have come to expect but don't understand the Amazon exemption?
    They will only pay tax on the revenue they earn from third party sellers. They have already told third party sellers that they will increase the fees charged to them to take account of this. So this digital tax will screw over small sellers and help Amazon.

    Absolute fucking genius!!
    That's not quite true. Google (for example) have started to charge more for advertising due to the tax, so our agency asked me if we wanted to pay it, or reduce our Google media spend accordingly. We reduced it. So that is them suffering.

    In Amazon's case, the sellers can raise their prices in order to pay Amazon's increased fees - this makes items on Amazon more expensive, meaning they potentially sell less. That is an affect on Amazon.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    FF43 said:

    Very interesting podcast. Well worth a listen. Takeaway is that the new Yes supporters are mostly women of all ages who took a more pragmatic risk approach back in 2014. The issue that resonated with me was a huge lack of trust amongst Scots for Westminster and the Johnson government.

    It does look like the end of the United Kingdom to me. I don't see the Conservatives changing from being the party of English nationalists and they have a partisan interest in denying any popular will in Scotland for independence, to show up Labour as the party in England that would break up the UK. Effectively othering the SNP and the nation of Scotland. That might stave off independence for a while but guarantees it eventually.

    Also the next couple of years will be grim.

    56% of Scots would oppose independence once they consider the fact there would likely be a hard border with England once the UK leaves the single market and customs union and that Scotland would lose sterling

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-most-scots-would-reject-independence-after-considering-issues-2976093
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Welcome to non-Tory life. You'll find it is very slow and very depressing. They are always in power, troughing away.

    You'd be better off finding out when your next Tory fundraiser is, and slipping some rent-a-twat like Jenrick his next lorryload of gravy while whispering your true desires.

    (My sympathy to your daughter. It is rotten for her.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    So you need to buy more for your kitchen even then for the weekday lunches from your local shops or delivered from a local warehouse
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    That is scarily brilliant!

    Why are Amazon exempt from the digital tax? The waste, incompetence, kleptocracy and corruption I have come to expect but don't understand the Amazon exemption?
    They will only pay tax on the revenue they earn from third party sellers. They have already told third party sellers that they will increase the fees charged to them to take account of this. So this digital tax will screw over small sellers and help Amazon.

    Absolute fucking genius!!
    What do you expect from pigs except grunts? This has to be the most incompetent government since the 1970s and the most corrupt since the early 1800s
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
    You're right there's no need to read it all, its ranty bollocks by someone who writes ranty bollocks like this all the time.

    I mean seriously it starts with this: "1. Boris Johnson announced a new 3 Tier lockdown system, with the lowest Tier being “medium”, like at McDonalds" - as if lowest being medium like at McDonalds is a bad thing. Its not, there's no areas with low risk at the minute that is the point, the lowest risk is medium right now because in case muppets like Russ haven't noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

    Oh and McDonalds serve small genius. Its what they put in their Happy Meals or you can order it separately.
    Why would a sensible system contemplate only states of affairs which obtain right now? US Defcons and UK threat levels cover the ground from lowest possible, to nuclear war in progress. It would do us all good to have the sunlit uplands of Tier Happymeal dangled before us.
    Because this system is only for during the pandemic. Once the pandemic is over then it would be uncontroversial to go to Tier Zero (no restrictions).
    How are you defining the pandemic being "over"?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    alex_ said:
    and the Finns ordered $12 billion of fighters earlier this year. Russia's Western neighbours are girding their loins.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542
    edited October 2020
    Foxy said:



    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19

    This Johnson government is orders of magnitude more corrupt than any other recent administration.

    (Not to say there wasn't a problem with them. But different scale)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    I can't work out if HYUFD's support for Biden is "if he was an American", or as a Brit? Because he's been perfectly clear that the UK's hopes of a trade deal rest on a Trump victory.

    It was only if I was an American, as I have said from a post Brexit UK point of view a Trump win would make a US FTA easier
    Think the notion that post-Brexit UK-USA trade deal would be easier under 2nd Trumpsky administration is poppycock.

    First, because Biden is NOT anti-British and is PRO-trade, plus he's a born negotiator; if elected he will want to ensure strong economic ties with both UK and EU.

    Second, because Trumpky's "art of the deal" is based almost totally on lying, cheating and stealing the other guy blind; AND if that doesn't work, just renege, go bankrupt, whatever.

    SO dealing with Biden is dealing with a normal US President; dealing with Trumpky is like emulating Chamberlain.
    Biden has made clear he will only do a deal with the UK if the internal markets bill is scrapped, Trump has not, Pelosi has also said UK drugs are not up to standard and a risk to the US if imported
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I used to. Almost daily. Before the bug. Now it's f/f/k daily (from the community store aka hamster food shop, given its emphasis on the tofu and organic side, so it's been better for me actually).
    I'm not convinced of the efficacy of Tofu. Organic I'm with you on.
    Actually makes a good stir fry for supper - just two pans (one for the noodles) as the tofu can be flung into the veg near the end. I can't imagine uysing it in a sandwich ...
  • Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    That is scarily brilliant!

    Why are Amazon exempt from the digital tax? The waste, incompetence, kleptocracy and corruption I have come to expect but don't understand the Amazon exemption?
    Given that we're in trade talks with the US, it makes more sense to have them being very badly affected, so it becomes a bargaining chip. Having them exempt now makes zero sense.

    Regarding the original post, I don't want apoplexy, so I won't read the Twitter thread - I apply the same principle to Twitter in its entirety.
    Generally a wise move avoiding twitter, doubt this would take you personally to apoplexy but might raise your cynicism levels a notch or two.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Scott_xP said:
    Thanksgiving will be fun at their house this year.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I used to. Almost daily. Before the bug. Now it's f/f/k daily (from the community store aka hamster food shop, given its emphasis on the tofu and organic side, so it's been better for me actually).
    PS Also related to the topic, 100% of the profits go local. Mind, the cafe I tended to use before was a small local co-op, but soime of the time I had things like Tescos prawn sandwiches and salad. Not any more.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    LadyG said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Hot suburban broth will save us!

    Sadly, it won't. The sensitive eco-system that is/was a world city like London provided a huge chunk of the UK's tax income, and basically kept the UK rather wealthy in a way that was unjustified by the productivity of the rest of the nation.

    Is it good that London will now be levelled down? Perhaps: emotionally/spiritually/socialistically. But the government's wish was, wisely, to Level Up.

    This isn't going to happen. We are about to see how the UK does without London as an engine. I am sure we will survive, and eventually thrive, but the short-medium term will be cruelly painful, and not just for Londoners: for everyone. Perhaps even more for those outside London who, unwittingly, depended on the capital's economic dynamism for support.
    I expect most commuters will return to London for at least a couple of says a week from next Spring but WFH for at least 1 to 2 days a week will be standard now too
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:



    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19

    This Johnson government is orders of magnitude more corrupt than any other recent administration.

    (Not to say there wasn't a problem with them. But different scale)
    Its a kleptocracy. Simple as that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    FF43 said:

    Very interesting podcast. Well worth a listen. Takeaway is that the new Yes supporters are mostly women of all ages who took a more pragmatic risk approach back in 2014. The issue that resonated with me was a huge lack of trust amongst Scots for Westminster and the Johnson government.

    It does look like the end of the United Kingdom to me. I don't see the Conservatives changing from being the party of English nationalists and they have a partisan interest in denying any popular will in Scotland for independence, to show up Labour as the party in England that would break up the UK. Effectively othering the SNP and the nation of Scotland. That might stave off independence for a while but guarantees it eventually.

    Also the next couple of years will be grim.

    On the other hand, it does rather mean that the grievances of those reluctant yes supporters are being accumulated with and personified by the Johnson Government, like a bad bank. When Johnson himself goes, as he must at some point, a lot of the venom goes with him.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    That is scarily brilliant!

    Why are Amazon exempt from the digital tax? The waste, incompetence, kleptocracy and corruption I have come to expect but don't understand the Amazon exemption?
    They will only pay tax on the revenue they earn from third party sellers. They have already told third party sellers that they will increase the fees charged to them to take account of this. So this digital tax will screw over small sellers and help Amazon.

    Absolute fucking genius!!
    Whoever is responsible should resign immediately and if not be fired. Introducing a digital tax and failing to include Amazon? Really?
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
    It is not part of it. Look at the Electoral Commission registewrs. Separate accounting and all that. In contrast to the Labour Party's Scottish element.
    It is, Boris Johnson remains head of the UK Conservative Party, hence Scottish Conservative Party members had a vote when he was elected UK Tory leader.

    It is not yet a separate sister party as say the Bavarian CSU is to the German CDU
    Whose Conservative Party will be fighting the Scottish elections next May?
    It used to be Ruth Davison's Conservatives - they were quite popular.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
    You're right there's no need to read it all, its ranty bollocks by someone who writes ranty bollocks like this all the time.

    I mean seriously it starts with this: "1. Boris Johnson announced a new 3 Tier lockdown system, with the lowest Tier being “medium”, like at McDonalds" - as if lowest being medium like at McDonalds is a bad thing. Its not, there's no areas with low risk at the minute that is the point, the lowest risk is medium right now because in case muppets like Russ haven't noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

    Oh and McDonalds serve small genius. Its what they put in their Happy Meals or you can order it separately.
    Why would a sensible system contemplate only states of affairs which obtain right now? US Defcons and UK threat levels cover the ground from lowest possible, to nuclear war in progress. It would do us all good to have the sunlit uplands of Tier Happymeal dangled before us.
    Because this system is only for during the pandemic. Once the pandemic is over then it would be uncontroversial to go to Tier Zero (no restrictions).
    That's the mistake that the UK (and definitely Spain, and probably France) made in the summer. To jump too quickly from "there's a crisis" to "back to normal, folks". We are likely to need a worked out "carefully confident" step or two between what the restrictions call medium risk, the app called low risk and actual normality.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I used to. Almost daily. Before the bug. Now it's f/f/k daily (from the community store aka hamster food shop, given its emphasis on the tofu and organic side, so it's been better for me actually).
    I'm not convinced of the efficacy of Tofu. Organic I'm with you on.
    Actually makes a good stir fry for supper - just two pans (one for the noodles) as the tofu can be flung into the veg near the end. I can't imagine uysing it in a sandwich ...
    Tofu needs chilli pepper and maybe soy sauce. It's also improves with some minced meat, but not if you are vegetarian I guess. Stir-fry or braise.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Because they’re stupid scum.
    Stupid, malicious scum.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
    It is not part of it. Look at the Electoral Commission registewrs. Separate accounting and all that. In contrast to the Labour Party's Scottish element.
    It is, Boris Johnson remains head of the UK Conservative Party, hence Scottish Conservative Party members had a vote when he was elected UK Tory leader.

    It is not yet a separate sister party as say the Bavarian CSU is to the German CDU
    Whose Conservative Party will be fighting the Scottish elections next May?
    It used to be Ruth Davison's Conservatives - they were quite popular.
    They weren't called Conservatives! They were called the Roth Davidson No to Independence Referendum Parety. I'm not joking - that is what they were marketed as, very much so.
  • MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    JHB moves in strange circles
    The lady who couldn't believe, in 1984, that Reagan won, because everyone she knew was voting for Mondale comes to mind.
    That year I spent the summer in Europe. Along my travels met a young French woman who was interested in the upcoming US election, and asked me who I thought was going to win. Reagan, I answered, no doubt about it.

    Which surprised her. Because all of the Americans she'd met and talked with were definitely NOT fans of the Gipper.

    So why did I think otherwise? Because, I said, most Americans were NOT visiting Europe that (or any other) year, and that those who were AND were pro-Reagan were NOT staying at youth hostels & the like.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112
    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I used to. Almost daily. Before the bug. Now it's f/f/k daily (from the community store aka hamster food shop, given its emphasis on the tofu and organic side, so it's been better for me actually).
    I'm not convinced of the efficacy of Tofu. Organic I'm with you on.
    Actually makes a good stir fry for supper - just two pans (one for the noodles) as the tofu can be flung into the veg near the end. I can't imagine uysing it in a sandwich ...
    Tofu needs chilli pepper and maybe soy sauce. It's also improves with some minced meat, but not if you are vegetarian I guess. Stir-fry or braise.
    Oh,. thanks. Braised and soy is how we have it (wife is too sensitive to capsaicin) but the minced meat is a new one to me. Will consider.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112
    edited October 2020
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Very interesting podcast. Well worth a listen. Takeaway is that the new Yes supporters are mostly women of all ages who took a more pragmatic risk approach back in 2014. The issue that resonated with me was a huge lack of trust amongst Scots for Westminster and the Johnson government.

    It does look like the end of the United Kingdom to me. I don't see the Conservatives changing from being the party of English nationalists and they have a partisan interest in denying any popular will in Scotland for independence, to show up Labour as the party in England that would break up the UK. Effectively othering the SNP and the nation of Scotland. That might stave off independence for a while but guarantees it eventually.

    Also the next couple of years will be grim.

    56% of Scots would oppose independence once they consider the fact there would likely be a hard border with England once the UK leaves the single market and customs union and that Scotland would lose sterling

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-most-scots-would-reject-independence-after-considering-issues-2976093
    So, basically, you are admitting the Tories have *****ed up disastrously. No deal.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited October 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Not exactly shocking news...she is a registered democrat and has a long history of backing progressive candidates for office....would be bigger news is she wasn't voting for Biden.

    Briefly addressing her political differences with her dad, Caroline told Politico in 2016: "I love Hillary, I think she's by far the most qualified candidate that we've had in a long while. My dad knows. I was for Barack in 2012. He knows and is fully comfortable with it and thinks I have a right to my opinion."
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Someone posted a website where you can input your postcode and see what restrictions you are under.

    If anyone has that I’d be very grateful.

    Thanks in advance.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Because they’re stupid scum.
    Stupid, malicious scum.
    You forgot arrogant as well.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Scott_xP said:
    Not exactly shocking news...she is a registered democrat....

    Briefly addressing her political differences with her dad, Caroline told Politico in 2016: "I love Hillary, I think she's by far the most qualified candidate that we've had in a long while. My dad knows. I was for Barack in 2012. He knows and is fully comfortable with it and thinks I have a right to my opinion."
    It’s a slightly different thing to vote against the administration containing your own father
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,720

    FF43 said:

    Very interesting podcast. Well worth a listen. Takeaway is that the new Yes supporters are mostly women of all ages who took a more pragmatic risk approach back in 2014. The issue that resonated with me was a huge lack of trust amongst Scots for Westminster and the Johnson government.

    It does look like the end of the United Kingdom to me. I don't see the Conservatives changing from being the party of English nationalists and they have a partisan interest in denying any popular will in Scotland for independence, to show up Labour as the party in England that would break up the UK. Effectively othering the SNP and the nation of Scotland. That might stave off independence for a while but guarantees it eventually.

    Also the next couple of years will be grim.

    On the other hand, it does rather mean that the grievances of those reluctant yes supporters are being accumulated with and personified by the Johnson Government, like a bad bank. When Johnson himself goes, as he must at some point, a lot of the venom goes with him.
    Depends who replaces him. Rishi Sunak would probably be better. Jacob Rees-Mogg I suspect might not be.
  • HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I work in my kitchen.
    Lunch this week -
    Tortilla, "guacamole inspired topping", (pre-)grated cheese, half a chopped pepper.
    1 minute in the microwave, fold and it's a wrap!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    I used to. Almost daily. Before the bug. Now it's f/f/k daily (from the community store aka hamster food shop, given its emphasis on the tofu and organic side, so it's been better for me actually).
    I'm not convinced of the efficacy of Tofu. Organic I'm with you on.
    Actually makes a good stir fry for supper - just two pans (one for the noodles) as the tofu can be flung into the veg near the end. I can't imagine uysing it in a sandwich ...
    Tofu needs chilli pepper and maybe soy sauce. It's also improves with some minced meat, but not if you are vegetarian I guess. Stir-fry or braise.
    I'm not sure why one would go about trying to improve it - the improvement is not to eat it. I don't class it as a foodstuff. The soy industry sells it as one based on the harmlessness of traditionally high soy diets in the Far East, but crucially that is fermented soy. If you're veggy, eat lots of eggs. That's nature's superfood, not some hideous blob of intensively-farmed cement. The Phyto-estrogens will give you man boobs into the bargain.
  • .
    Cyclefree said:

    Someone posted a website where you can input your postcode and see what restrictions you are under.

    If anyone has that I’d be very grateful.

    Thanks in advance.

    https://www.gov.uk/find-coronavirus-local-restrictions
  • This government is somehow doing a worse job each day. Tier 2 and you get no Government support, completely unacceptable
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited October 2020
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Not exactly shocking news...she is a registered democrat....

    Briefly addressing her political differences with her dad, Caroline told Politico in 2016: "I love Hillary, I think she's by far the most qualified candidate that we've had in a long while. My dad knows. I was for Barack in 2012. He knows and is fully comfortable with it and thinks I have a right to my opinion."
    It’s a slightly different thing to vote against the administration containing your own father
    Well she effectively did in 2016 as well, as Giuliani was major part of the Trump's election campaign.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    Wow indeed. Can you imagine having as much time on your hands as RussInCheshire so obviously does?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542

    FF43 said:

    Very interesting podcast. Well worth a listen. Takeaway is that the new Yes supporters are mostly women of all ages who took a more pragmatic risk approach back in 2014. The issue that resonated with me was a huge lack of trust amongst Scots for Westminster and the Johnson government.

    It does look like the end of the United Kingdom to me. I don't see the Conservatives changing from being the party of English nationalists and they have a partisan interest in denying any popular will in Scotland for independence, to show up Labour as the party in England that would break up the UK. Effectively othering the SNP and the nation of Scotland. That might stave off independence for a while but guarantees it eventually.

    Also the next couple of years will be grim.

    On the other hand, it does rather mean that the grievances of those reluctant yes supporters are being accumulated with and personified by the Johnson Government, like a bad bank. When Johnson himself goes, as he must at some point, a lot of the venom goes with him.
    Big question whether the move to Yes is structural, which the podcast didn't fully answer. My guess is that the Union isn't quite a lost cause yet but the circumstances that might rescue it are unlikely to transpire quickly enough. Even if Johnson goes I don't see the Conservatives shaking off their English nationalism and become a multi-cultural, open party of all nations but they are going to be in power for another four years as far as we know. Plenty of time for the consensus to independence to be embedded.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    It's too long, as a thread, to have any impact. Bad editing
    You do not need to read it all. After about the first 10 points, you wonder. After the next 10 your flabber will be ghasted. Any further and you realise that the incompetents in charge are more farcical than any stage play ever written.

    This is what appointments based on loyalty rather than ability do to a country.

    Rather interestingly, it puts paid to one old question - why do we pay CEOs of major companies so much? Are they truly worth it?

    Well, we can now see what the converse - putting incompetents in charge - does. The Bluekippers reign of ruin is there for all to see. Previously we had to rely on examples like the CEO of Coop Bank or Fred the Shred.
    You're right there's no need to read it all, its ranty bollocks by someone who writes ranty bollocks like this all the time.

    I mean seriously it starts with this: "1. Boris Johnson announced a new 3 Tier lockdown system, with the lowest Tier being “medium”, like at McDonalds" - as if lowest being medium like at McDonalds is a bad thing. Its not, there's no areas with low risk at the minute that is the point, the lowest risk is medium right now because in case muppets like Russ haven't noticed we're in the middle of a global pandemic.

    Oh and McDonalds serve small genius. Its what they put in their Happy Meals or you can order it separately.
    Why would a sensible system contemplate only states of affairs which obtain right now? US Defcons and UK threat levels cover the ground from lowest possible, to nuclear war in progress. It would do us all good to have the sunlit uplands of Tier Happymeal dangled before us.
    Because this system is only for during the pandemic. Once the pandemic is over then it would be uncontroversial to go to Tier Zero (no restrictions).
    That's the mistake that the UK (and definitely Spain, and probably France) made in the summer. To jump too quickly from "there's a crisis" to "back to normal, folks". We are likely to need a worked out "carefully confident" step or two between what the restrictions call medium risk, the app called low risk and actual normality.
    Well indeed we will in the future, but not yet. In the future when its safe to add a Low Risk tier then that can be introduced, but it doesn't apply anywhere yet. If a Low Risk tier was introduced despite it not being safe yet to call anywhere Low Risk you'd start having regular arguments with people saying their area was low risk so should be moved from Medium to Low.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    This government is somehow doing a worse job each day. Tier 2 and you get no Government support, completely unacceptable

    And this is what Labour’s mayor of London has just volunteered for....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,392
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    Yet many of our market towns and villages in commuter ville and our suburbs have more people around to buy there lunch locally at lunchtime, so will take much less of a hit than our inner cities will with no commuters added onto restrictions on customers
    Does anyone WFH go out for lunch? Any PBers doing this?

    I visit the kitchen. Fridge, fruit bowl, kettle.
    So you need to buy more for your kitchen even then for the weekday lunches from your local shops or delivered from a local warehouse
    From Riverford, Abel & Cole and Waitrose in my case.

    We used to buy plenty from the local Coop pre-COVID. Now nothing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    CatMan said:

    FF43 said:

    Very interesting podcast. Well worth a listen. Takeaway is that the new Yes supporters are mostly women of all ages who took a more pragmatic risk approach back in 2014. The issue that resonated with me was a huge lack of trust amongst Scots for Westminster and the Johnson government.

    It does look like the end of the United Kingdom to me. I don't see the Conservatives changing from being the party of English nationalists and they have a partisan interest in denying any popular will in Scotland for independence, to show up Labour as the party in England that would break up the UK. Effectively othering the SNP and the nation of Scotland. That might stave off independence for a while but guarantees it eventually.

    Also the next couple of years will be grim.

    On the other hand, it does rather mean that the grievances of those reluctant yes supporters are being accumulated with and personified by the Johnson Government, like a bad bank. When Johnson himself goes, as he must at some point, a lot of the venom goes with him.
    Depends who replaces him. Rishi Sunak would probably be better. Jacob Rees-Mogg I suspect might not be.
    Hahaha - I don't advocate the coronation of the Moggster, but it would *almost* be worth it for the reactions. :lol: I wonder if he would recline whilst listening to Starmer's questions during PMQs.
  • Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1316711661600935936?s=19
    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
    Wow indeed. Can you imagine having as much time on your hands as RussInCheshire so obviously does?
    Absolutely. Blame the messenger.
This discussion has been closed.