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Ipsos MORI Politics + Society podcast. Scotland: Yes is winning so what happens now? – politicalbett

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited October 15 in General
Ipsos MORI Politics + Society podcast. Scotland: Yes is winning so what happens now? – politicalbetting.com

The end of the UK? Highest EVER recorded support for independence in Scotland (58%) pic.twitter.com/7Cengc1pfD

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Comments

  • First?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,671
    Second like Trump
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,167
    I am no longer measuring Covid in weeks or months, but in buzz cuts. I self administered the clippers for the second time at the weekend.
  • Which is why yours truly is 99.46% sure that POTUS achieved his miracle cure NOT via any medication, but rather thanks to LEECHES.

    My advice to his crack (in at least one sense) medical team, is that apply at least a hundred leeches at a time to Trumpsky. But limit the "hang time" for any particular leech to just one hour, to give the little blood-suckers time to recover from their ordeal.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,167
    Confirms what was already thought. Patients recover more quickly if they were going to recover anyway. Frees up beds I guess.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 34,502

    I am no longer measuring Covid in weeks or months, but in buzz cuts. I self administered the clippers for the second time at the weekend.

    "It's only six buzz cuts to Christmas!"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 61,901
    The election is basically the same as Clinton vs Trump now with a 9 million headstart for Biden





  • I am no longer measuring Covid in weeks or months, but in buzz cuts. I self administered the clippers for the second time at the weekend.

    SO do you buzz from back to front, or ear to ear? OR do you like to mix it up?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 7,355
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    UK cases summary

    image
    image
    image
    image

    On the positivity graph, I'm not sure that's correct. For example, on the 12th there were 237,638 tests and 16,933 positive results. That's a rate of 7.1% but the graph shows 16%. I've lost access to the data so I can't see what's going on either.
    Is this a tests/people tested difference for the denominator?
    Good spot by MaxPB - there was a mistake in the code.

    Revised chart

    image
    That looks much better, the positivity rate isn't anywhere near what they're seeing in Europe at the moment and even that feels like it has begun to level off.
    I'm not sure that I would call quite such a small group of swallows a summer.

    How about a bet?
  • ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    Scottish Independence and the SNP are two separate things. I will vote Yes. I won't vote SNP.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,230

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    Scottish Independence and the SNP are two separate things. I will vote Yes. I won't vote SNP.
    That seems like a sensible position :+1:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,167

    I am no longer measuring Covid in weeks or months, but in buzz cuts. I self administered the clippers for the second time at the weekend.

    "It's only six buzz cuts to Christmas!"
    This cut should last me well past 12th night!
  • Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,230
    What about the other one? Methy-droxy-poxy-whatssssup-drome
  • Which is why yours truly is 99.46% sure that POTUS achieved his miracle cure NOT via any medication, but rather thanks to LEECHES.

    My advice to his crack (in at least one sense) medical team, is that apply at least a hundred leeches at a time to Trumpsky. But limit the "hang time" for any particular leech to just one hour, to give the little blood-suckers time to recover from their ordeal.
    Survival of the fittest.


    ...and...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,468

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 77,818
    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 12,167

    I am no longer measuring Covid in weeks or months, but in buzz cuts. I self administered the clippers for the second time at the weekend.

    SO do you buzz from back to front, or ear to ear? OR do you like to mix it up?
    Edges to middle. Against the grain. This time I managed to avoid leaving a rat's tail at the back.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 77,818
    The risk to the economy of Scotland, the common unity of the nations of the UK, the benefits of devolution and the isolation of Scotland on the world stage after independence are all arguments Keiran Padley has shown Scots respond to and Unionists can use

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 17,100

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 34,502
    HYUFD said:

    The risk to the economy of Scotland, the common unity of the nations of the UK, the benefits of devolution and the isolation of Scotland on the world stage after independence are all arguments Keiran Padley has shown Scots respond to and Unionists can use

    Sorry HYUFD, but if a significant number of people still think the union helps Scotland avoid being isolated on the world stage, it just shows that support for the union has further to fall.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    Scottish Independence and the SNP are two separate things. I will vote Yes. I won't vote SNP.
    But with the best will in the world, there will be a considerable overlap. If only because the SNP after 14 years in power have little else to talk about.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,230
    I just let it grow and ocassionally snip the ends. I recently had 10cm off for a layer cut and it was still past my shoulders :D
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 77,818

    HYUFD said:

    The risk to the economy of Scotland, the common unity of the nations of the UK, the benefits of devolution and the isolation of Scotland on the world stage after independence are all arguments Keiran Padley has shown Scots respond to and Unionists can use

    Sorry HYUFD, but if a significant number of people still think the union helps Scotland avoid being isolated on the world stage, it just shows that support for the union has further to fall.
    The UK is still a P5 member of the UN Security Council, in the G7 and in the G20 and an independent Scotland would have to leave them all.

    It could rejoin the EU but would be an even smaller part of the EU than it is part of the UK
  • Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's as shy as I am modest.
  • DAlexanderDAlexander Posts: 581
    Pulpstar said:

    The election is basically the same as Clinton vs Trump now with a 9 million headstart for Biden





    The difference in voting numbers between the two is ridiculous.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    OK.

    So, just to be clear, if four events, three of them highly unlikely, all happen then the SNP might tread water.

    That’s not leading me to pile in on the Unionist parties.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 42,466
    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 77,818
    edited October 15

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,867

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    But the MoD is thinking of scrapping HYUFD's favourite tanks anyway, all 220-odd of them. Mind, the privatised tank transporters will be at the othert end of Europe and stuck at Calais.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    edited October 15

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the south defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 37,468

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's as shy as I am modest.
    He’s tentative. He’s said he might quit on more than one occasion due to the abuse he’s received despite being impeccably polite.

    He’s a classic example of why people might be shy Trumpers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,867
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The risk to the economy of Scotland, the common unity of the nations of the UK, the benefits of devolution and the isolation of Scotland on the world stage after independence are all arguments Keiran Padley has shown Scots respond to and Unionists can use

    Sorry HYUFD, but if a significant number of people still think the union helps Scotland avoid being isolated on the world stage, it just shows that support for the union has further to fall.
    The UK is still a P5 member of the UN Security Council, in the G7 and in the G20 and an independent Scotland would have to leave them all.

    It could rejoin the EU but would be an even smaller part of the EU than it is part of the UK
    The UK wopn't exist then. England and the bits could try to hang on, but that's a different matter.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 42,466
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    I think the march goes from Epping to Edinburgh to Madrid.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    I think the march goes from Epping to Edinburgh to Madrid.
    The last stage sounds a bit on the damp side.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,867
    edited October 15
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 2,953
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    Where-ever they are they won't be in the pub.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    Are we talking about Hyufd or Sean Connery?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    Where-ever they are they won't be in the pub.
    We don’t know that there’ll be enough of them even for this set of rules.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,867
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    Are we talking about Hyufd or Sean Connery?
    Mr Connery doesn't parade his disqualification to vote in Scotland.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,671

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    I think the march goes from Epping to Edinburgh to Madrid.
    Haven't we got to fight the Frogs first, for old times sake?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 22,106
    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 2,953
    I can't work out if HYUFD's support for Biden is "if he was an American", or as a Brit? Because he's been perfectly clear that the UK's hopes of a trade deal rest on a Trump victory.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 22,324

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's as shy as I am modest.
    He’s tentative. He’s said he might quit on more than one occasion due to the abuse he’s received despite being impeccably polite.

    He’s a classic example of why people might be shy Trumpers.
    What abuse has he received?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    I think the march goes from Epping to Edinburgh to Madrid.
    Haven't we got to fight the Frogs first, for old times sake?
    You’re very Sharpe tonight.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 587
    Off topic, but I was interested to see some powerful comments from Lisa Nandy on the previous thread on what's going on in the North West. I thought she'd been a bit quiet lately, but she has the ability to be a combative and effective spokesperson for the North, and a real thorn in the government's side. I'd rather Starmer had made her shadow Home Secretary, taking on Priti Patel, than shadow Foreign Secretary. Regardless, she should be let loose on the Covid shambles - her passion for Wigan and the North complements Starmer's more lawyerly approach rather well. She could certainly wind up Johnson, Hancock and Cumming if let off the leash.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 2,953
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    I think the march goes from Epping to Edinburgh to Madrid.
    Haven't we got to fight the Frogs first, for old times sake?
    I think we're using the Navy for that.
  • Time to deploy the Army to London, and tell them to go all Parachute Regiment on Bloody Sunday on the Covid-19 deniers.

    Pour encourager les autres
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 17,100

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    PB is stocked with Shy Trumpets but part of the thing about being a shy Trumpet is not revealing your Trumpet nature.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 28,733

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    I think the march goes from Epping to Edinburgh to Madrid.
    It will make Garibaldi’s epic effort look like a walk in the park.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,867
    alex_ said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    The SNP thankfully seize on support for independence as a distraction from their internal bickering and abject incompetence, and ride the wave of grievance to a majority at Holyrood next year.

    I don't think Sturgeon's current lead is much bigger than May's was 6 months before election 2017 and we all know what happened then, an energetic campaign from Douglas Ross and Unionist tactical voting, a Scottish economy entering recession and an SNP civil war between Salmond and Sturgeon supporters and anything is possible
    Plus, the threat of military invasion from the Essex volunteers will keep the buggers in line.
    Wouldn’t they all be in the armed defending Gibraltar from the marauding Spaniards?
    I think the march goes from Epping to Edinburgh to Madrid.
    Haven't we got to fight the Frogs first, for old times sake?
    I think we're using the Navy for that.
    Well, it's the only explanation of why the Tories closed Rosyth - built to fight the Germans - an d Chats - to fight the Dutch - and moved it all to Pompey and Guz.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,671

    Off topic, but I was interested to see some powerful comments from Lisa Nandy on the previous thread on what's going on in the North West. I thought she'd been a bit quiet lately, but she has the ability to be a combative and effective spokesperson for the North, and a real thorn in the government's side. I'd rather Starmer had made her shadow Home Secretary, taking on Priti Patel, than shadow Foreign Secretary. Regardless, she should be let loose on the Covid shambles - her passion for Wigan and the North complements Starmer's more lawyerly approach rather well. She could certainly wind up Johnson, Hancock and Cumming if let off the leash.

    On next PM stakes, the money is on the Tory backstabbers, and Starmer. I think it worth having a little cover in case Labour has a new leader before GE24, with Nandy and Rayner being the value IMO.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 587
    Well Julia, they won't be law-abiding any more then, will they?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,428
    Just like everyone else then.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,230
    edited October 15
    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    One thing that should perhaps be considered is how schools will continue to function under the current horrible restrictions over the next seven weeks to Christmas.

    Let’s be clear - the system is under acute strain. Keeping adolescents in one place for five or six hours at a stretch is not a good idea. In fact, it is a bloody awful idea. It might work at Badminton or Roedean but not in an inner city state school. Already, the discipline is deteriorating. Without going into details, I’m getting reports of actual violence in schools.

    At the same time, the staff are worn out. One teacher of my acquaintance did 17,000 steps in one day. That’s a lot. It’s even worse when carrying all your equipment. Trying then to control thirty restless children, only by voice and force of personality, five times is very draining. It is disconcerting to note that the number of jobs available on TES has suddenly exploded.

    A two week break for schools in October, gained by shortening the summer holidays, is actually always a sensible idea. After all, the half term I finish next week is nearly as long as the whole Easter term. But if we have to try and do this again on only a week’s break, the staff sick list will rocket - especially as the weather deteriorates. Which would rather defeat the object of these quarantine measures.

    So there are other practical considerations worth considering too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,671
    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,010
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The risk to the economy of Scotland, the common unity of the nations of the UK, the benefits of devolution and the isolation of Scotland on the world stage after independence are all arguments Keiran Padley has shown Scots respond to and Unionists can use

    Sorry HYUFD, but if a significant number of people still think the union helps Scotland avoid being isolated on the world stage, it just shows that support for the union has further to fall.
    The UK is still a P5 member of the UN Security Council, in the G7 and in the G20 and an independent Scotland would have to leave them all.

    It could rejoin the EU but would be an even smaller part of the EU than it is part of the UK
    But at least joining a union where the exit mechanism is clear and doesn't rely on the bigger partner going "nah not today mate".
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 587
    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    I don't think I've seen you using capital letters for exclamation before, so you must be really, really furious. PS I can see why and agree.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,428
    Ohio now red on 538.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,230
    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    68% of people asked support it. That is not the same as 68% of the population.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 2,953
    edited October 15
    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    There seem to be a hell of a lot of politicians who think financial support starts and ends with support for workers (and even that is largely seen as insufficient - where it even exists). There seems to be little or no understanding that without businesses there are no jobs, and that businesses have significant costs other than just staff. In fact, if unable to trade, getting rid of staff is about the easiest cost to shed (much as they would not like to). Won't make a blind bit of difference for all the other fixed costs that remain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    Does anyone know what’s going on in Derbyshire? Seems a slightly strange place for an outbreak.
  • MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    Possibly, people are OK if we're all in it together, but a lot less OK with some areas suffering (and the suffering is genuine) when others aren't.

    Precision-targeted controls might be one of those things that sound efficient and scientific in theory, but are tricky to manage if you apply them to real people. (Ask teachers or army officers.) I'm not saying that they're not worth doing if done well, but that requires more narration and team-ego-buffing than this government has been bothered to do.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 17,100

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's as shy as I am modest.
    He’s tentative. He’s said he might quit on more than one occasion due to the abuse he’s received despite being impeccably polite.

    He’s a classic example of why people might be shy Trumpers.
    He was this polite during 2018 where he presented all the same arguments as to why the GOP would keep the house with all the same criticism of the polling including the basic misunderstanding of statistics and sample sizes.

    He had people explain the statistics of polling to him back then and he politely thanked the people who did so, saw the Dem landslide in the House and came back in 2020 to tell everyone that it was on for Trump and that you can't trust the polls and sample sizes are too small all over again.

    Whilst telling us we were letting our emotions cloud our judgement.

    Shy is not the word I would use.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862
    alex_ said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    There seem to be a hell of a lot of politicians who think
    The whole problem at the moment is that there are precisely zero politicians who can think.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 85,321
    edited October 15
    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know what’s going on in Derbyshire? Seems a slightly strange place for an outbreak.

    Really close to Nottingham which is a bit of Covid-19 hotspot.

    Also parts of Derbyshire are near Manchester, which is also a bit of a Covid-19 hotspot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 77,818
    First episode of the 'Trump Show' looking back at the Trump presidency on BBC2 now
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 77,818
    alex_ said:

    I can't work out if HYUFD's support for Biden is "if he was an American", or as a Brit? Because he's been perfectly clear that the UK's hopes of a trade deal rest on a Trump victory.

    It was only if I was an American, as I have said from a post Brexit UK point of view a Trump win would make a US FTA easier
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 28,733
    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,428
    HYUFD said:

    First episode of the 'Trump Show' looking back at the Trump presidency on BBC2 now

    That reminds me to cancel my TV license.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 2,953
    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know what’s going on in Derbyshire? Seems a slightly strange place for an outbreak.

    Probably another university campus
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 1,753

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 2,053
    Have they tried two paracetamols and an early night?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,671
    algarkirk said:

    Have they tried two paracetamols and an early night?
    Or a small bowl of hot broth?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 31,862

    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know what’s going on in Derbyshire? Seems a slightly strange place for an outbreak.

    Really close to Nottingham which is a bit of Covid-19 hotspot.

    Also parts of Derbyshire are near Manchester, which is also a bit of a Covid-19 hotspot.
    Well, so is East Staffordshire (for example) close to Nottingham, while Lichfield, Cannock and South Staffordshire border Birmingham, but we seem to be escaping the worst so far. What makes Derbyshire different?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 77,818
    edited October 15
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party with whom it sits together at Westminster and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
  • RogerRoger Posts: 12,796
    Foxy said:

    Off topic, but I was interested to see some powerful comments from Lisa Nandy on the previous thread on what's going on in the North West. I thought she'd been a bit quiet lately, but she has the ability to be a combative and effective spokesperson for the North, and a real thorn in the government's side. I'd rather Starmer had made her shadow Home Secretary, taking on Priti Patel, than shadow Foreign Secretary. Regardless, she should be let loose on the Covid shambles - her passion for Wigan and the North complements Starmer's more lawyerly approach rather well. She could certainly wind up Johnson, Hancock and Cumming if let off the leash.

    On next PM stakes, the money is on the Tory backstabbers, and Starmer. I think it worth having a little cover in case Labour has a new leader before GE24, with Nandy and Rayner being the value IMO.
    Rayner is hardly better than Corbyn. I can't see Labour choosing another no- hoper
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 10,428
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know what’s going on in Derbyshire? Seems a slightly strange place for an outbreak.

    Really close to Nottingham which is a bit of Covid-19 hotspot.

    Also parts of Derbyshire are near Manchester, which is also a bit of a Covid-19 hotspot.
    Well, so is East Staffordshire (for example) close to Nottingham, while Lichfield, Cannock and South Staffordshire border Birmingham, but we seem to be escaping the worst so far. What makes Derbyshire different?
    West Midlands is Best Midlands.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,867
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
    It is not part of it. Look at the Electoral Commission registewrs. Separate accounting and all that. In contrast to the Labour Party's Scottish element.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,867
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
    It is not part of it. Look at the Electoral Commission registewrs. Separate accounting and all that. In contrast to the Labour Party's Scottish element.
    PS And please don't use the word 'beat'. Not when you also keep going on about Catalonia. I'm sure you don't mean it, but it does lead to misundersytandings and we try to keep this website polite.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 18,671
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Off topic, but I was interested to see some powerful comments from Lisa Nandy on the previous thread on what's going on in the North West. I thought she'd been a bit quiet lately, but she has the ability to be a combative and effective spokesperson for the North, and a real thorn in the government's side. I'd rather Starmer had made her shadow Home Secretary, taking on Priti Patel, than shadow Foreign Secretary. Regardless, she should be let loose on the Covid shambles - her passion for Wigan and the North complements Starmer's more lawyerly approach rather well. She could certainly wind up Johnson, Hancock and Cumming if let off the leash.

    On next PM stakes, the money is on the Tory backstabbers, and Starmer. I think it worth having a little cover in case Labour has a new leader before GE24, with Nandy and Rayner being the value IMO.
    Rayner is hardly better than Corbyn. I can't see Labour choosing another no- hoper
    No, I rather like the red haired firebrand, and so did the Labour party selectors. If they want to replace Starmer, it will be someone with a bit more gusto.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 587
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    That's an excellent thread of government misdemeanours, worthy of much wider circulation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 77,818
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
    It is not part of it. Look at the Electoral Commission registewrs. Separate accounting and all that. In contrast to the Labour Party's Scottish element.
    It is, Boris Johnson remains head of the UK Conservative Party, hence Scottish Conservative Party members had a vote when he was elected UK Tory leader.

    It is not yet a separate sister party as say the Bavarian CSU is to the German CDU
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 4,230
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    Read this twitter thread if you want apoplexy.

    F***ing hell...... That is incredible

    What a bunch of incompetent twats.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 6,867
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    I have said all along I would vote Biden for President and GOP for Congress but as I would have voted Hillary for President in 2016 I would not be a key swing voter at the presidential level and as I am not American even eligible to vote.

    The last Republican I would have voted for for President was George W Bush in 2000, though I would have voted Republican in every Presidential election from 1968 until 2004 since then I would have voted for Kerry, Obama and Hillary and Biden (though I would have voted for Bush over Dean in 2004 and Trump over Sanders if he was the Democratic nominee this year)
    But not being Scottish doesn't disqualify you from interfering in Scottish matters and sending outside money to Scottish political parties, which are legally separate from yours and operate in a polity you do not live in. At le3ast in your view.
    The Scottish Conservative Party is still part of the UK Tory Party and my sovereign country is still the same as yours and I will do what I can to keep it that way and beat separatists like you
    It is not part of it. Look at the Electoral Commission registewrs. Separate accounting and all that. In contrast to the Labour Party's Scottish element.
    It is, Boris Johnson remains head of the UK Conservative Party, hence Scottish Conservative Party members had a vote when he was elected UK Tory leader.

    It is not yet a separate sister party as say the Bavarian CSU is to the German CDU
    So why does it have a different name on the electoral ballot?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 28,733
    LadyG said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How dare, really how fucking dare, the government impose Tier 2 and Tier 3 on regions and then provide fuck all support for the businesses unable to trade and the people who will lose their jobs?

    How dare they claim there is no money when they and their friends and consultants are looting the state of billions?

    I am so furious with this government. FURIOUS!

    You do seem to be getting more and more worked up with every passing day... I was reading of a pub owner in West Belfast who seems to be giving up "I do not want to do this any more" was his comment.

    BTW - Another article on BBC News claims that the govt is spending over £300m helping businesses deal with the cost of Brexit. That number seems familiar. Maybe I read it on the side of a bus somewhere :/
    She's got a point. I walked down Charlotte Street today. Usually one of the lovelist and liveliest of centrak London streets. It was utterly desolate. 90% shuttered. All those gorgeous little independent bars, restaurants, shops, coffee slots, GONE. To Let.

    And this is before Mayor Khan's superb Lockdown Two.

    Central London is fucked in a way that most do not realise, and most have no comprehension what this will do to the UK tax take, and to our GDP, and to general living standards. We are headed to an economic disaster which will make the Great Depression look like the dot com bubble.
    How many days is it since you told us central London was back in business?

  • TomsToms Posts: 2,000
    Foxy said:

    algarkirk said:

    Have they tried two paracetamols and an early night?
    Or a small bowl of hot broth?
    I believe chicken soup is the usual palliative.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 587
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Off topic, but I was interested to see some powerful comments from Lisa Nandy on the previous thread on what's going on in the North West. I thought she'd been a bit quiet lately, but she has the ability to be a combative and effective spokesperson for the North, and a real thorn in the government's side. I'd rather Starmer had made her shadow Home Secretary, taking on Priti Patel, than shadow Foreign Secretary. Regardless, she should be let loose on the Covid shambles - her passion for Wigan and the North complements Starmer's more lawyerly approach rather well. She could certainly wind up Johnson, Hancock and Cumming if let off the leash.

    On next PM stakes, the money is on the Tory backstabbers, and Starmer. I think it worth having a little cover in case Labour has a new leader before GE24, with Nandy and Rayner being the value IMO.
    Rayner is hardly better than Corbyn. I can't see Labour choosing another no- hoper
    Yes, I agree. I would bet on Nandy being next leader, but not for some time; she's still relatively young, so no hurry.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 15,140
    MaxPB said:

    But 68% of people support the two week lockdown. How can it be true that everyone actually thinks its a shit idea.
    JHB moves in strange circles
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Is anyone else amazed that we've yet to see "Shy Trump Voter" posting on PB?

    Surely such a massive voting bloc MUST be represented on this very distinguished and highly popular forum!

    @MrEd
    He's not shy.
    @HYUFD
    PB is stocked with Shy Trumpets but part of the thing about being a shy Trumpet is not revealing your Trumpet nature.
    So who do you have down as closet PB Trumpers, Alistair? I have Malcolm G and Mr Meekes as certainties. Nick Palmer is a possible but he hides it well. OGH must be under suspicion too, if only because of the hair style.

    Any others you can think of?
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