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The other big US election three weeks today – the fight to control the Senate – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Ed Davey has missed the chance to differentiate from Labour.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1316089240166563840

    He is backing a winning case.

    Boris cant do it this week or it looks like surrender. And he cant call it a circuit breaker. So middle of next week he will announce something like a "mini lockdown" which is essentially the SAGE/Starmer circuit breaker with a new name.
    They will just put more and more regions in Tier 3, which is effectively the same thing.

    I am quite prepared come mid November everywhere but Devon and Cornwall in Tier 3.
    So no national lockdown!
    Yeap...but it will be for months, not 2 weeks.
    You are quite probably correct.

    I have a terrible foreboding about the sequel. Part One was managed very well for the first couple of months. This time it will inevitably be total chaos.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    RCP currently projects the Democrats will pick up the Senate with 51 seats to 49 Republican, making gains in Iowa, Maine, North Carolina, Arizona and Colorado while the GOP pick up Alabama

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/senate/2020_elections_senate_map_no_toss_ups.html
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    What time do results start coming in on the 3/11?

    I think polls close early, so I recall not too far different to a UK GE night, though obviously later for the West Coast. I remember East Coast results out while West Coast polls were still open.

    And is there a big UK-style polls-have-closed-exit-poll-forecast that you can see, then go to bed, wake up and see that that was basically what happened anyway?
    Ooh, the best bit is the in play betting. PB is way ahead of the curve and I did a reverse ferret very successfully in 2016, though @rcs1000 famously called it early on for Hillary. I blame it on too much Radiohead.

    🙂
    In fairness to RCS he did his reverse ferret pretty soon after and that combined with some shrewd observations by other PBers enabled me to reverse my own ferret and finish with a modest profit. PB is certainly the place to be on big election nites.
    That's very true. Who can forget @Andy_JS' spreadsheet on the EU referendum night. If ever I meet him in person, I'll definitely be buying the beers.
    The problem would be the rule of six and curfew, but I owe him a pint, and @Chris_from_Paris too, whose early Macron tip led to my best ever PB night financially.
  • Pretty unhelpful from Pidcock

    Laura Pidcock
    @LauraPidcock
    ·
    32m
    A ‘circuit break’ must include school closures (or back to lockdown provision). Anything less than that that will be inadequate to slow the spread of the virus. None of us want to be here. We are here because we have been relentlessly failed by government.

    An ex MP best forgotten about, why expect her to have helpful answers in the first place?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1316093081440194560

    Its air bridges all over again, every week the regions on the lists change...total mess.
    Yup.
    The only thing he has achieved is divert half the MPs’ attention from the bigger picture and set them all quibbling about the boundaries and why their own seat should be treated exceptionally or moved into a different category.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594
    edited October 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nichomar said:

    What time do results start coming in on the 3/11?

    Kentucky and Indiana start reporting first, at about 11pm our time. The reason is that polls close in those states at 6pm local time.
    I wonder how quickly Indiana will be called for Trump this time round. Last time it was fast. I expect KY to be instacalled no matter how badly he's doing.
    Usually a candidate has to be about 10% ahead or more in the exit poll for the TV stations to call it immediately at the close of voting. It used to be less before the 2000 Gore/Bush debacle but they're more cautious these days.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited October 2020
    LauraK.? I thought Allegra Stratton was Johnson's "Minister for Propoganda".
  • Ed Davey has missed the chance to differentiate from Labour.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1316089240166563840

    He is backing a winning case.

    Boris cant do it this week or it looks like surrender. And he cant call it a circuit breaker. So middle of next week he will announce something like a "mini lockdown" which is essentially the SAGE/Starmer circuit breaker with a new name.
    They will just put more and more regions in Tier 3, which is effectively the same thing.

    I am quite prepared come mid November everywhere but Devon and Cornwall in Tier 3.
    I think it takes away from the everyone in it together mindset that is important during a national crisis. Also just going into tier 3 probably means staying there for the winter, whereas with a few circuit breakers we might be able to keep most of the country in tier 1 most weeks.
    I am very much of the opinion of a consistent countrywide set of restrictions that last the whole winter. Circuit breakers will either be 2 weeks every month or more likely months on end again, it won't just be for a single period over half term.
    I suggested 2 week lockdowns every 2 months back in late summer and think that is still about the right frequency, but accept we might need to front load them initially to catch up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited October 2020

    Ed Davey has missed the chance to differentiate from Labour.


    Differentiation from Labour is easy. Just vote for the proposition. Or vote against it.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,707

    twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1316093081440194560

    Its air bridges all over again, every week the regions on the lists change...total mess.
    Yup.
    Nope. Air bridge was "can I fly" and the options were "yes" and "no". Here we have a three tier plan with 5 tiers. You think places being upgraded from L2 to L3 is funny? Wait until they go to Whitty's "Extremely High Risk" L4 - that's when they'll send Jenrick on to explain it.
    I suppose the alternative is recalibrating the existing tiers overnight.

    Tier 1 goes from medium to high
    Tier 2 goes from high to very high
    Tier 3 goes from very high to fuck me that's incredibly high.

    But all the numbers stay the same so it's alright and not confusing.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited October 2020
    Has anyone pointed out to Starmer et al, that a recommended "2-3 week circuit breaker" 2-3 weeks ago, would equate to a 5-6 week circuit breaker now, just to achieve the same base numbers?

    And when they are recommending this circuit breaker, are they doing it with the insistence that it is lifted after 3 weeks, or will it be dependent on seeing something in the numbers that won't be apparent for 5-6 weeks.

    And anyway, quite why a 2-3 week circuit breaker which basically amounts to shutting the pubs (and maybe restaurants) will make a blind bit of difference is unclear. It's hardly China. Or even the type of circuit breakers they did in South Korea early on.

    It's a circuit breaker with about half a dozen bypass circuits, be they schools, work, public transport, hospital appointments, supermarket shopping... not to mention the unenforceable mixing in private homes that will go on regardless.

    It's a scientist's idea that will have not nearly enough compliance in practice. It would be widely seen as a gimmick.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Pretty unhelpful from Pidcock

    Laura Pidcock
    @LauraPidcock
    ·
    32m
    A ‘circuit break’ must include school closures (or back to lockdown provision). Anything less than that that will be inadequate to slow the spread of the virus. None of us want to be here. We are here because we have been relentlessly failed by government.

    The former next Leader of the Opposition speaks!
  • Ed Davey has missed the chance to differentiate from Labour.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1316089240166563840

    He is backing a winning case.

    Boris cant do it this week or it looks like surrender. And he cant call it a circuit breaker. So middle of next week he will announce something like a "mini lockdown" which is essentially the SAGE/Starmer circuit breaker with a new name.
    They will just put more and more regions in Tier 3, which is effectively the same thing.

    I am quite prepared come mid November everywhere but Devon and Cornwall in Tier 3.
    I think it takes away from the everyone in it together mindset that is important during a national crisis. Also just going into tier 3 probably means staying there for the winter, whereas with a few circuit breakers we might be able to keep most of the country in tier 1 most weeks.
    I am very much of the opinion of a consistent countrywide set of restrictions that last the whole winter. Circuit breakers will either be 2 weeks every month or more likely months on end again, it won't just be for a single period over half term.
    I suggested 2 week lockdowns every 2 months back in late summer and think that is still about the right frequency, but accept we might need to front load them initially to catch up.
    I think due to the nature of covid and the politics it wouldn't work out like that. You do 2 weeks, cases haven't fallen yet, it would be a very brave politician to say, ok lads / lasses everybody back out into the world (and i think people would just hide away for another 2 weeks).
  • LauraK.? I thought Allegra Stratton was Johnson's "Minister for Propoganda".
    Its a bit pathetic not to mention hugely hypocritical to complain about playing political games and do it through "unnamed govt sources" to your favourite journalist.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    edited October 2020

    Ed Davey has missed the chance to differentiate from Labour.

    Maybe, but he clearly doesn't think he should shoot for the anti-lockdown position, he isn't backing the government position, and would he really get noticed for adopting something similar but not quite the Labour position?

    It's not easy, being LD leader.

    I do share skepticism about whether 2 weeks would have an appreciable effect, but if present measures do not work, as they probably won't sufficiently, then it will surely end up being done even if a circuit breaker which then extends is no different to just going full lockdown again.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Ed Davey has missed the chance to differentiate from Labour.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1316089240166563840

    And avoided the risk of doing so.

    I think we might be heading for binary "values" general elections in England soon - Republicans (Con/BXP/Reclaim) vs Democrats (Lab/LD/Green).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    justin124 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Chris Green resigns over lockdown.

    Who?
    MP for Bolton West.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1316059811428081664
    A PPS is not a member of the Government.
    Bag carrier is close enough for news reports, the same way any backbencher is a 'senior' backbencher when quoted.
  • Keir has played an absolute master stroke.

    Johnson is fumbling around, now Keir's laid out his plan, every day the cases get worse people will say "why didn't we follow Keir's plan?"
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nichomar said:

    What time do results start coming in on the 3/11?

    Kentucky and Indiana start reporting first, at about 11pm our time. The reason is that polls close in those states at 6pm local time.
    I wonder how quickly Indiana will be called for Trump this time round. Last time it was fast. I expect KY to be instacalled no matter how badly he's doing.
    Usually a candidate has to be about 10% ahead or more in the exit poll for the TV stations to call it immediately at the close of voting. It used to be less before the 2000 Gore/Bush debacle but they're more cautious these days.
    IIRC they were exceptionally cautious in 2016 with a bunch of obvious states declared to close to call.
  • MaxPB said:

    Mortimer said:

    FF43 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Tories are totally rattled, well done Sir Keir

    LOL. Spoke to a self employed lifetime Labour voter today.

    He is appalled at the left's lockdown solution. Applauds the Tory right for accepting that we're going to have to live with this virus, and not shutdown the economy.
    Unfortunately, and I think it is unfortunate, Starmer is right on the epidemic facts, that doesn't pay any attention to political Left or Right. If we don't take belated and rigorous action now we will see mass death and the economy will be shut down harder. Johnson may be weak and feckless, but he is reasonably intelligent. He knows this.
    Nationwide lockdown (however short, and 2 weeks wouldn't be enough IMO) is a nonsense when large parts of the country have almost no cases....
    To have serious effect on numbers, I think, from what we saw earlier in the epidemic, you need much more than 2 weeks.

    In all the countries, around the world, that used lockdowns, what is the shortest period of time before a serious dent was made in the rising numbers? I am talking about seen, after the fact - forget about lagging indicators.
    Anybody who thinks it would end up just being 2 weeks, I have a bridge to sell you.

    If Starmer had said actually I think we need 2 months, I would have more respect for that opinion.
    Yes, I actually could get on board with 2 months coupled with a serious look at measures for a proper isolation system. 2 weeks is not going to do anything.
    Now in agreement with me Max, thanks for getting onside buddy.
  • Ed Davey has missed the chance to differentiate from Labour.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1316089240166563840

    He is backing a winning case.

    Boris cant do it this week or it looks like surrender. And he cant call it a circuit breaker. So middle of next week he will announce something like a "mini lockdown" which is essentially the SAGE/Starmer circuit breaker with a new name.
    They will just put more and more regions in Tier 3, which is effectively the same thing.

    I am quite prepared come mid November everywhere but Devon and Cornwall in Tier 3.
    I think it takes away from the everyone in it together mindset that is important during a national crisis. Also just going into tier 3 probably means staying there for the winter, whereas with a few circuit breakers we might be able to keep most of the country in tier 1 most weeks.
    I am very much of the opinion of a consistent countrywide set of restrictions that last the whole winter. Circuit breakers will either be 2 weeks every month or more likely months on end again, it won't just be for a single period over half term.
    I suggested 2 week lockdowns every 2 months back in late summer and think that is still about the right frequency, but accept we might need to front load them initially to catch up.
    I think due to the nature of covid and the politics it wouldn't work out like that. You do 2 weeks, cases haven't fallen yet, it would be a very brave politician to say, ok lads / lasses everybody back out into the world (and i think people would just hide away for another 2 weeks).
    Politicians who lead wouldnt have a problem explaining it. No issue for Blair or Thatcher, and Cameron could probably have done it. If Johnson wants to be remembered well he needs to step up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131

    Pretty unhelpful from Pidcock

    Laura Pidcock
    @LauraPidcock
    ·
    32m
    A ‘circuit break’ must include school closures (or back to lockdown provision). Anything less than that that will be inadequate to slow the spread of the virus. None of us want to be here. We are here because we have been relentlessly failed by government.

    Pidcock unhelpful? It's so out of character!
  • Shut the front door.

    Operation Moonshot might be a load of horseshit.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1316099444916576256
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    What time do results start coming in on the 3/11?

    I think polls close early, so I recall not too far different to a UK GE night, though obviously later for the West Coast. I remember East Coast results out while West Coast polls were still open.

    And is there a big UK-style polls-have-closed-exit-poll-forecast that you can see, then go to bed, wake up and see that that was basically what happened anyway?
    Ooh, the best bit is the in play betting. PB is way ahead of the curve and I did a reverse ferret very successfully in 2016, though @rcs1000 famously called it early on for Hillary. I blame it on too much Radiohead.

    🙂
    I was the first to call it for Hillary... and then the first (about fifteen minutes later) to call it for Trump!
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Scott_xP said:
    He thinks we're going to "fix testing" in 3 weeks?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    This election could wind up making Belarus look like textbook democracy!
  • twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1316093081440194560

    Its air bridges all over again, every week the regions on the lists change...total mess.
    Yup.
    Nope. Air bridge was "can I fly" and the options were "yes" and "no". Here we have a three tier plan with 5 tiers. You think places being upgraded from L2 to L3 is funny? Wait until they go to Whitty's "Extremely High Risk" L4 - that's when they'll send Jenrick on to explain it.
    I suppose the alternative is recalibrating the existing tiers overnight.

    Tier 1 goes from medium to high
    Tier 2 goes from high to very high
    Tier 3 goes from very high to fuck me that's incredibly high.

    But all the numbers stay the same so it's alright and not confusing.
    The Three Tier Plan:
    Tier 0: Low (has to exist, can't go from Medium to nothing)
    Tier 1: Medium
    Tier 2: High
    Tier 3: Very High
    Tier 4: Extremely High (already referred to by Whitty)

    So 5 tiers. And thats before we get into the local variations on the 3/5 tiers based on whining from local MPs / mayors
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,554

    Pretty unhelpful from Pidcock

    Laura Pidcock
    @LauraPidcock
    ·
    32m
    A ‘circuit break’ must include school closures (or back to lockdown provision). Anything less than that that will be inadequate to slow the spread of the virus. None of us want to be here. We are here because we have been relentlessly failed by government.

    An ex MP best forgotten about, why expect her to have helpful answers in the first place?
    The bit about circuit breaks having to include schools is, I am sad to say, true. Not often Laura Pidcock has something useful to contribute but she is correct here.
    From here all the futures look like a choice between worst and worster.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    What time do results start coming in on the 3/11?

    I think polls close early, so I recall not too far different to a UK GE night, though obviously later for the West Coast. I remember East Coast results out while West Coast polls were still open.

    And is there a big UK-style polls-have-closed-exit-poll-forecast that you can see, then go to bed, wake up and see that that was basically what happened anyway?
    Ooh, the best bit is the in play betting. PB is way ahead of the curve and I did a reverse ferret very successfully in 2016, though @rcs1000 famously called it early on for Hillary. I blame it on too much Radiohead.

    🙂
    I was the first to call it for Hillary... and then the first (about fifteen minutes later) to call it for Trump!
    The art of the reverse ferret, I did too, and turned my book green as a result!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131

    LauraK.? I thought Allegra Stratton was Johnson's "Minister for Propoganda".
    Its a bit pathetic not to mention hugely hypocritical to complain about playing political games and do it through "unnamed govt sources" to your favourite journalist.
    There may well be a place for unnamed sources on occasion, but the way they are usually deployed any such reports shoudl just be ignored. If it is an attack on your opponent then come out and say it upfront, why hide it? And if it is an attack on your own side you can get away with it once maybe, but after that have some guts and stand by your comments.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    It is abjectly pitiful that a new government policy - involving complex new rules that need communicating to millions of people - can be launched on a Monday afternoon, and by Tuesday afternoon the government is already leaking that it will meet on Wednesday to consider major changes to it.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Did anyone comment/notice Gavin williamson's laughable announcement a couple of days ago to "proceed with exams", but with a 3 week delay? What the hell was that all about?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    alex_ said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He thinks we're going to "fix testing" in 3 weeks?
    Why not shoot for the moon?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    Scott_xP said:

    One to bear in mind when BoZo inevitably does it...

    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1316094387223490560

    The idea has a certain appeal.
  • Keir has played an absolute master stroke.

    Johnson is fumbling around, now Keir's laid out his plan, every day the cases get worse people will say "why didn't we follow Keir's plan?"

    I get your excitement given Sir Kier Cardboard's recent inaction. But I don't care about the party political stuff at the moment, whether Tory or Labour win or lose. We need consensus. Yes its Shagger's fault that there's no prospect of that, but SKS could stay above the frey
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Alistair said:

    Laura K using the ever popular unnamed source with an attack line approach which is so shit it should be illegal. If the government wants to attack Labour then they should have the courage to put a name to the line.

    You'd think after she was utterly embarrassed over Big Dom and his shifting Barnard Castle story she'd have an iota of shame over continuing to uncritically parrot unnamed sources in the government



    The line is "shameless opportunist", right?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131

    Shut the front door.

    Operation Moonshot might be a load of horseshit.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1316099444916576256

    Boris has never believed in tempering expectations. One of these days it is going to cost him, though it hasn't yet.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,554
    Scott_xP said:

    One to bear in mind when BoZo inevitably does it...

    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1316094387223490560

    And let's back the correct horse three weeks before the race.

  • alex_ said:

    Did anyone comment/notice Gavin williamson's laughable announcement a couple of days ago to "proceed with exams", but with a 3 week delay? What the hell was that all about?

    Cant he join Pidcock somewhere never to be heard of again?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717

    Shut the front door.

    Operation Moonshot might be a load of horseshit.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1316099444916576256

    We need to get the Chinese on the job.

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1316082940468756481?s=19
  • kle4 said:

    Shut the front door.

    Operation Moonshot might be a load of horseshit.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1316099444916576256

    Boris has never believed in tempering expectations. One of these days it is going to cost him, though it hasn't yet.
    It has cost us though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,426
    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nichomar said:

    What time do results start coming in on the 3/11?

    Kentucky and Indiana start reporting first, at about 11pm our time. The reason is that polls close in those states at 6pm local time.
    I wonder how quickly Indiana will be called for Trump this time round. Last time it was fast. I expect KY to be instacalled no matter how badly he's doing.
    538 are projecting an 11.3% lead for Trump in Indiana. That would be called pretty quickly I would think.
    Though Obama did win there in 2008.
    Look at the margins in the Midwest in 2008, and you can see the massive change there has been since. IA +9.5, MI +16.5, MN +10, OH +5, PA +10, WI +14 - all on a national lead of +7.2

    It's pointless to say that Obama won IN by +1, when you look at how far the Midwest has moved as a whole away from the Democrats.

    Biden could win the national vote by 15 points and he probably still wouldn't win Indiana.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    That url makes the problem seem a lot worse than it is. 10x worse in fact.
  • Pulpstar said:
    And that's all voting in the same polling station following the Governor's shenanigans isn't it?

    Sounds impressive. Wonder what the queue is like.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,702
    The website is “Army for Trump” and it invites you to “enlist”.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited October 2020
    Message to all: Keep this one quiet:

    https://twitter.com/ylelkes/status/1316081218639867904
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited October 2020

    MaxPB said:

    Mortimer said:

    FF43 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Tories are totally rattled, well done Sir Keir

    LOL. Spoke to a self employed lifetime Labour voter today.

    He is appalled at the left's lockdown solution. Applauds the Tory right for accepting that we're going to have to live with this virus, and not shutdown the economy.
    Unfortunately, and I think it is unfortunate, Starmer is right on the epidemic facts, that doesn't pay any attention to political Left or Right. If we don't take belated and rigorous action now we will see mass death and the economy will be shut down harder. Johnson may be weak and feckless, but he is reasonably intelligent. He knows this.
    Nationwide lockdown (however short, and 2 weeks wouldn't be enough IMO) is a nonsense when large parts of the country have almost no cases....
    To have serious effect on numbers, I think, from what we saw earlier in the epidemic, you need much more than 2 weeks.

    In all the countries, around the world, that used lockdowns, what is the shortest period of time before a serious dent was made in the rising numbers? I am talking about seen, after the fact - forget about lagging indicators.
    Anybody who thinks it would end up just being 2 weeks, I have a bridge to sell you.

    If Starmer had said actually I think we need 2 months, I would have more respect for that opinion.
    Yes, I actually could get on board with 2 months coupled with a serious look at measures for a proper isolation system. 2 weeks is not going to do anything.
    Now in agreement with me Max, thanks for getting onside buddy.
    But that's not what is being proposed, it's two weeks of business destroying lockdown for nothing which will be extended to 2 months for nothing and at the end of it people who test positive still won't isolate just the same as today. Starmer is proposing nothing to solve the actual problem of 4 in 5 people who test positive not isolating.

    So no, I'm not on board. Starmer is useless and anyone who supports this is cheering as we watch tens of thousands of businesses go to the wall and millions of people get put into the dole queue.

    Starmer has failed to recognise the problem and is proposing a solution that will be worse than doing nothing. It's political game playing with a national crisis and I find it despicable.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    What time do results start coming in on the 3/11?

    I think polls close early, so I recall not too far different to a UK GE night, though obviously later for the West Coast. I remember East Coast results out while West Coast polls were still open.

    And is there a big UK-style polls-have-closed-exit-poll-forecast that you can see, then go to bed, wake up and see that that was basically what happened anyway?
    Nope. It's all organised by State, the results come in piecemeal and the media companies fight each other to 'call' each state and the total EC votes based purely on partial results. The full results take several weeks to be certified, once absentee and postal votes are counted. It's very unlikely this year, that there will be a result on the night, given the apparent partisan nature of voting methods.
    Florida, NC, AZ. If 2 of those 3 are called for Biden on the night, plus a national swing to him cf 2016 is evident, that's game over.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    John Roberts owns one of the worst Supreme Court decisions of all time in Shelby County vs Holder. Today I learnt he has basically spent his whole life trying to dismantle voting rights in America and suddenly that makes his absolute bullshit decision in 2013 make sense.

    https://www.vox.com/21211880/supreme-court-chief-justice-john-roberts-voting-rights-act-election-2020
  • twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1316093081440194560

    Its air bridges all over again, every week the regions on the lists change...total mess.
    Yup.
    Nope. Air bridge was "can I fly" and the options were "yes" and "no". Here we have a three tier plan with 5 tiers. You think places being upgraded from L2 to L3 is funny? Wait until they go to Whitty's "Extremely High Risk" L4 - that's when they'll send Jenrick on to explain it.
    I suppose the alternative is recalibrating the existing tiers overnight.

    Tier 1 goes from medium to high
    Tier 2 goes from high to very high
    Tier 3 goes from very high to fuck me that's incredibly high.

    But all the numbers stay the same so it's alright and not confusing.
    The Three Tier Plan:
    Tier 0: Low (has to exist, can't go from Medium to nothing)
    Tier 1: Medium
    Tier 2: High
    Tier 3: Very High
    Tier 4: Extremely High (already referred to by Whitty)

    So 5 tiers. And thats before we get into the local variations on the 3/5 tiers based on whining from local MPs / mayors
    Tier 0 doesn't exist and doesn't have to exist. There is no "nothing" in this country, nor any "low" in this country. That is the point.

    Nor does Tier 4 exist, its Tier 3.

    Other than that, great remark. 🙄
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    I note the graphic clearly believes Trump has been more successful than even he thinks, as it declares they need to 'Keep America Great', whilst he is still trying to 'Make America Great Again'. He just needs to believe in himself more,
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited October 2020

    Breaking News.

    Nellie The Elephant has tested positive for Covid-19.

    When asked where she got it from, she replied with 'Trump, Trump, Trump.'

    Having to explain why this is funny to my American wife and daughter.
  • The website is “Army for Trump” and it invites you to “enlist”.
    Minimum requirement - 1x AR-15 carbine
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,702
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    What time do results start coming in on the 3/11?

    I think polls close early, so I recall not too far different to a UK GE night, though obviously later for the West Coast. I remember East Coast results out while West Coast polls were still open.

    And is there a big UK-style polls-have-closed-exit-poll-forecast that you can see, then go to bed, wake up and see that that was basically what happened anyway?
    Ooh, the best bit is the in play betting. PB is way ahead of the curve and I did a reverse ferret very successfully in 2016, though @rcs1000 famously called it early on for Hillary. I blame it on too much Radiohead.

    🙂
    I was the first to call it for Hillary... and then the first (about fifteen minutes later) to call it for Trump!
    The art of the reverse ferret, I did too, and turned my book green as a result!
    I thought Pulpstar was the first to call it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Scott_xP said:

    Alistair said:

    Laura K using the ever popular unnamed source with an attack line approach which is so shit it should be illegal. If the government wants to attack Labour then they should have the courage to put a name to the line.

    You'd think after she was utterly embarrassed over Big Dom and his shifting Barnard Castle story she'd have an iota of shame over continuing to uncritically parrot unnamed sources in the government



    The line is "shameless opportunist", right?
    Nice matching blue casual outfits.
  • Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    kle4 said:

    I note the graphic clearly believes Trump has been more successful than even he thinks, as it declares they need to 'Keep America Great', whilst he is still trying to 'Make America Great Again'. He just needs to believe in himself more,
    That was the 2016 slogan. And they found that Make America Great Again Again didn't quite work. Hence Keep America Great.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    Shut the front door.

    Operation Moonshot might be a load of horseshit.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1316099444916576256

    That was about a specificities trial of saliva tests.

    What is interesting in that story is the lack of why.

    Apparently they had some problems finding volunteers.. undefined....

    Apparently "its part in Operation Moonshot had been paused due to a lack of clarity over the accuracy of the saliva testing system." - according to a politician who'd been told by council officials.

    I smell systemic resistance - maybe even herd immunity. From things they don't like... but why?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IanB2 said:

    It is abjectly pitiful that a new government policy - involving complex new rules that need communicating to millions of people - can be launched on a Monday afternoon, and by Tuesday afternoon the government is already leaking that it will meet on Wednesday to consider major changes to it.

    Well absolutely. Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the circuit breaker idea, the idea of any policy at the moment should be to get ahead of the curve. If you aren't confident that regulations imposed will allow that, and aren't prepared to wait a few weeks to find out, then why bother in the first place. It's like all this stuff about London about to move up a tier. Based (if true) on an inevitable breach of the "100 cases per 100,000" barrier by Friday. As if somehow this is a magic number that means anything.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    I worry that Boris saying "no vaccine" today to the '22 is a very bad sign that this vaccine is either not safe or doesn't have high enough efficacy to warrant wide roll out.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,554

    twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1316093081440194560

    Its air bridges all over again, every week the regions on the lists change...total mess.
    Yup.
    Nope. Air bridge was "can I fly" and the options were "yes" and "no". Here we have a three tier plan with 5 tiers. You think places being upgraded from L2 to L3 is funny? Wait until they go to Whitty's "Extremely High Risk" L4 - that's when they'll send Jenrick on to explain it.
    I suppose the alternative is recalibrating the existing tiers overnight.

    Tier 1 goes from medium to high
    Tier 2 goes from high to very high
    Tier 3 goes from very high to fuck me that's incredibly high.

    But all the numbers stay the same so it's alright and not confusing.
    The Three Tier Plan:
    Tier 0: Low (has to exist, can't go from Medium to nothing)
    Tier 1: Medium
    Tier 2: High
    Tier 3: Very High
    Tier 4: Extremely High (already referred to by Whitty)

    So 5 tiers. And thats before we get into the local variations on the 3/5 tiers based on whining from local MPs / mayors
    Tier 0 doesn't exist and doesn't have to exist. There is no "nothing" in this country, nor any "low" in this country. That is the point.

    Nor does Tier 4 exist, its Tier 3.

    Other than that, great remark. 🙄
    Tier 0 would simply be a name - rather a good one for headline writers - for a return to normality, with no special laws covering Covid 19. I don't think we can begin to guess what year Tier 0 would arrive in any part or every park of the England or the UK. Obvs. not 2020. I think obviously not 2021. A glimmer of a chance in 2022 anyone?

    One more speculation: What will be the high point of the national debt - now just over £2 tn. What about £3.1 tn?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited October 2020

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    Bit different from Boris saying no sign of a vaccine, one might never come. Where was their info coming from?

    This isn't as positive news though,

    Johnson & Johnson Covid vaccine trial paused due to ill volunteer

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54521527
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    TimT said:

    kle4 said:

    I note the graphic clearly believes Trump has been more successful than even he thinks, as it declares they need to 'Keep America Great', whilst he is still trying to 'Make America Great Again'. He just needs to believe in himself more,
    That was the 2016 slogan. And they found that Make America Great Again Again didn't quite work. Hence Keep America Great.
    But Trump is still using MAGA not KAG
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited October 2020

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    I thought Johnson had hosed down the idea of imminent vaccines, unless it was just a wizard wheeze to draw Starmer out and then put Starmer straight back in his box, once and for all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Bernard Jenkin appears to have come out in favour of the Starmer plan
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Trump won West Virginia by 42 points and Missouri by 18 points in 2016. The former in terms of that current poll is the real shocker with Trump ahead by 14 points .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited October 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    I worry that Boris saying "no vaccine" today to the '22 is a very bad sign that this vaccine is either not safe or doesn't have high enough efficacy to warrant wide roll out.
    If I had to guess, its the efficacy isn't high enough, or even shown to only reduce effects of COVID, but not stop infection or transmission.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Mortimer said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting piece on C4 news, apparently hard times in the Cocaine industry from production to distribution.

    The virus doing what the War on Drugs could not...

    Silver lining!

    I missed the debate about drug policy the other day. I'm anti liberalisation. My middle class mates who like to partake in a middle class way (and not think about all the associated crime and destitution) are the most fervent liberalisers.

    Never seen the attraction. Booze, OTOH....
    I don't see the point in partaking it. Booze and caffeine are my only drugs of choice.

    But prohibition has failed. Education is working on tobacco.

    We should deal with illicit drugs like tobacco. Tax and education, but free will. If people want to take cocaine better they buy it from a supermarket tobacco counter, or Boots, than from a criminal gang.
    I'd make a distinction between Booze and Baccy. Alcohol is closer to "drugs" because in excess it both wrecks the body AND it's mind bending. When you're high on it you often hurt others. Tobacco is a substance that in the main ruins one's own physical health.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    alex_ said:

    Did anyone comment/notice Gavin williamson's laughable announcement a couple of days ago to "proceed with exams", but with a 3 week delay? What the hell was that all about?

    They clashed with his holiday?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    nico679 said:

    Trump won West Virginia by 42 points and Missouri by 18 points in 2016. The former in terms of that current poll is the real shocker with Trump ahead by 14 points .
    Thanks
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited October 2020

    MaxPB said:

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    I worry that Boris saying "no vaccine" today to the '22 is a very bad sign that this vaccine is either not safe or doesn't have high enough efficacy to warrant wide roll out.
    If I had to guess, its the efficacy isn't high enough, or even shown to only reduce effects of COVID, but not stop infection or transmission.
    Reducing the effects is badly needed though lol, stop people getting long covid and err dieing. People can cope with the flu.

    Let's wait and see anyway.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    kle4 said:

    TimT said:

    kle4 said:

    I note the graphic clearly believes Trump has been more successful than even he thinks, as it declares they need to 'Keep America Great', whilst he is still trying to 'Make America Great Again'. He just needs to believe in himself more,
    That was the 2016 slogan. And they found that Make America Great Again Again didn't quite work. Hence Keep America Great.
    But Trump is still using MAGA not KAG
    Ah, this story might explain the reversion to MAGA:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-keep-america-great-website-trump-broken-promises/
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mortimer said:

    FF43 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Tories are totally rattled, well done Sir Keir

    LOL. Spoke to a self employed lifetime Labour voter today.

    He is appalled at the left's lockdown solution. Applauds the Tory right for accepting that we're going to have to live with this virus, and not shutdown the economy.
    Unfortunately, and I think it is unfortunate, Starmer is right on the epidemic facts, that doesn't pay any attention to political Left or Right. If we don't take belated and rigorous action now we will see mass death and the economy will be shut down harder. Johnson may be weak and feckless, but he is reasonably intelligent. He knows this.
    Nationwide lockdown (however short, and 2 weeks wouldn't be enough IMO) is a nonsense when large parts of the country have almost no cases....
    To have serious effect on numbers, I think, from what we saw earlier in the epidemic, you need much more than 2 weeks.

    In all the countries, around the world, that used lockdowns, what is the shortest period of time before a serious dent was made in the rising numbers? I am talking about seen, after the fact - forget about lagging indicators.
    Anybody who thinks it would end up just being 2 weeks, I have a bridge to sell you.

    If Starmer had said actually I think we need 2 months, I would have more respect for that opinion.
    Yes, I actually could get on board with 2 months coupled with a serious look at measures for a proper isolation system. 2 weeks is not going to do anything.
    Now in agreement with me Max, thanks for getting onside buddy.
    But that's not what is being proposed, it's two weeks of business destroying lockdown for nothing which will be extended to 2 months for nothing and at the end of it people who test positive still won't isolate just the same as today. Starmer is proposing nothing to solve the actual problem of 4 in 5 people who test positive not isolating.

    So no, I'm not on board. Starmer is useless and anyone who supports this is cheering as we watch tens of thousands of businesses go to the wall and millions of people get put into the dole queue.

    Starmer has failed to recognise the problem and is proposing a solution that will be worse than doing nothing. It's political game playing with a national crisis and I find it despicable.
    It's being purely because it can be spun as him "listening to the scientists" whilst Johnson is not. Even though he doesn't define what the circuit breaker actually is, doesn't understand that it was proposed 2 weeks ago and the effect would be different now, and isn't clear whether it would actually be a short circuit breaker, or could extend into something more. And doesn't state what Government financial support will be needed to accompany it. Noting that all this would require further delay to rewrite legislation all over again.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    edited October 2020
    Deleted
  • MaxPB said:

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    I worry that Boris saying "no vaccine" today to the '22 is a very bad sign that this vaccine is either not safe or doesn't have high enough efficacy to warrant wide roll out.
    Isn't the data still double-blinded? Will even he have any news yet?

    I think it might more be simply trying to temper expectations so that if there is bad news its not too much of a let down, plus if people take things more seriously now that's good right now anyway. OTOH if there's good news then all the better.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    Message to all: Keep this one quiet:

    https://twitter.com/ylelkes/status/1316081218639867904

    These guys should be shown the door.

    It's not even close to possible to judge pricing in major elections - the data where independent is so sparse as to be meaningless. The idea that major arbitrage opportunities exist is poppycock too.

    Idiots.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    It is abjectly pitiful that a new government policy - involving complex new rules that need communicating to millions of people - can be launched on a Monday afternoon, and by Tuesday afternoon the government is already leaking that it will meet on Wednesday to consider major changes to it.

    Well absolutely. Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the circuit breaker idea, the idea of any policy at the moment should be to get ahead of the curve. If you aren't confident that regulations imposed will allow that, and aren't prepared to wait a few weeks to find out, then why bother in the first place. It's like all this stuff about London about to move up a tier. Based (if true) on an inevitable breach of the "100 cases per 100,000" barrier by Friday. As if somehow this is a magic number that means anything.
    Yes it's exactly like that rubbish red list measure which put a huge lack of certainty over travel. We had months to come up with an arrival quarantine and test system and did nothing. I say that as someone who went overseas three times when we were allowed to do so, we still would have gone (well maybe not to Basel to visit the mother in law) had we needed to pay £500-700 for 5 days of quarantine and a test each on the way back and I think the certainty would actually have helped because there would be no travel restrictions in terms of destinations and everyone would be under the same rules on the way back.

    Just as we had months to come up with a way to get people to isolate.

    In both cases we did nothing and it's come back and will destroy the economy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,717
    Scott_xP said:
    Its got a nasty side effect. It turns your skin orange....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,103
    edited October 2020

    MaxPB said:

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    I worry that Boris saying "no vaccine" today to the '22 is a very bad sign that this vaccine is either not safe or doesn't have high enough efficacy to warrant wide roll out.
    Isn't the data still double-blinded? Will even he have any news yet?

    I think it might more be simply trying to temper expectations so that if there is bad news its not too much of a let down, plus if people take things more seriously now that's good right now anyway. OTOH if there's good news then all the better.
    If they will announce any day, they will have had the data, done the math, and written the paper. It will be just double checking everything.

    That is presuming Sky source is correct (whoever it is).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    Bit different from Boris saying no sign of a vaccine, one might never come. Where was their info coming from?

    This isn't as positive news though,

    Johnson & Johnson Covid vaccine trial paused due to ill volunteer

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54521527
    Illness in a participant of a vaccine trial causes a temporary halt.

    In related news, water is wet, gravity is the law and there's a film at 11
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    nico679 said:

    Trump won West Virginia by 42 points and Missouri by 18 points in 2016. The former in terms of that current poll is the real shocker with Trump ahead by 14 points .
    Don't forget that WV was the last State in the South to convert from Dem to GOP, and the last Dem Governor of WV is still one of its Senators.
  • Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    Bit different from Boris saying no sign of a vaccine, one might never come. Where was their info coming from?

    This isn't as positive news though,

    Johnson & Johnson Covid vaccine trial paused due to ill volunteer

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54521527
    Illness in a participant of a vaccine trial causes a temporary halt.

    In related news, water is wet, gravity is the law and there's a film at 11
    Sure, but it still delays things.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Scott_xP said:
    So the key point here is that local politicians in areas of high infection are desparate to see national restrictions, so it doesn’t look like their high-incidence areas are being singled out. Meanwhile, more than half the country lives in areas of almost no infection at all.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    I worry that Boris saying "no vaccine" today to the '22 is a very bad sign that this vaccine is either not safe or doesn't have high enough efficacy to warrant wide roll out.
    Isn't the data still double-blinded? Will even he have any news yet?

    I think it might more be simply trying to temper expectations so that if there is bad news its not too much of a let down, plus if people take things more seriously now that's good right now anyway. OTOH if there's good news then all the better.
    If initial results are due then the data will already be known by a handful of people at Oxford, AZ and the top levels of the government.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited October 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Bernard Jenkin appears to have come out in favour of the Starmer plan

    Isn't that proof enough that this is a bad idea?
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sky saying AstraZenica vaccine trial results are due "any day".

    I really hope something good comes from this soon, we could all do with some good news. Hope it doesn't affect the election Stateside though.

    I worry that Boris saying "no vaccine" today to the '22 is a very bad sign that this vaccine is either not safe or doesn't have high enough efficacy to warrant wide roll out.
    Isn't the data still double-blinded? Will even he have any news yet?

    I think it might more be simply trying to temper expectations so that if there is bad news its not too much of a let down, plus if people take things more seriously now that's good right now anyway. OTOH if there's good news then all the better.
    If initial results are due then the data will already be known by a handful of people at Oxford, AZ and the top levels of the government.
    Worst result could be they are inconclusive.....we need to run another Phase III trial.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Shut the front door.

    Operation Moonshot might be a load of horseshit.

    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1316099444916576256

    That was about a specificities trial of saliva tests.

    What is interesting in that story is the lack of why.

    Apparently they had some problems finding volunteers.. undefined....

    Apparently "its part in Operation Moonshot had been paused due to a lack of clarity over the accuracy of the saliva testing system." - according to a politician who'd been told by council officials.

    I smell systemic resistance - maybe even herd immunity. From things they don't like... but why?
    I actually did a saliva test today at Southampton University, just spat in a pot, I had the result 8 hours later. They are doing it for all staff and contractors working at the UNI on a weekly basis.
This discussion has been closed.