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For all the talk in the past week of Biden landslide the spread betting markets have barely moved –

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  • IanB2 said:

    Starmers position seems to be local lockdowns don't work, so ???? He wants another national lockdown?

    There's a logic behind that.

    It is is possible to live in a tier 3 area, work in a tier 2 area, and have kids in school in tier 1.

    So a national approach could make sense.
    Face it hes even more clueless than Bozo
    Is that the latest defence from those who (for the time being) still support the Party-formally-known as Conservative? “Our guy is totally shit, but the LoTO is shit too”? Not sure it will wash that well after another 4 years of Bozo the Clown. All Starmer needs to do is look moderately reasonable and roughly competent, and next to the Clown it won’t be difficult, particularly after a few more years of back if a fag packet government. Ps good to see you Mr Alanbrooke , haven’t seen you for ages!
    Yes. That 'the other guy was worse' is essentially how we got landed with Bozo in the first place. If things continue on current path, Starmer may have to do little more than play the Biden strategy. Relying on that so far out is however a gamble.
    It is essentially a sensible strategy for this stage of the parliamentary cycle against an incompetent incumbent. Let them defeat themselves. The worst thing Starmer could do is get tied up at this stage by making alternative suggestions. He is not in government and the clown is. Let Boris Johnson carry on with his Benny Hill impression until the public realise it isn’t funny anymore
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited October 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    That part of Bozo's speech was interesting. He is clearly "seeking" consent from the local authorities before moving them into Tier Three, without specifically saying that it is a precondition - his words simply offer consultation on any extra businesses to be closed down together with various inducements (financial compensation).

    But it's pretty clear the clown doesn't have the political capital to push the whole of the North into tier three against the wishes of Burnham and the rest, regardless of what the infection rates were saying.

    His uncharacteristic obsequiousness with Davey suggests he can't afford a combined attack from the LibDems and his libertarian right.

    Signs of Bozo's growing weakness litter this announcement.

    Meanwhile I love all these Tory MPs being loyal to the policy whilst struggling to offer all the special reasons they can think of why their seats should be treated as special cases, either now or going forward.
  • MaxPB said:

    Incoming pint and chips for £5 specials at Spoons and a lot of wasted microwaved chips.
    Is it one drink per meal, or you can stack up 4 pints with your chips, or eat them slowly? Germany style litre steins might become more popular if its one drink per meal.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    isam said:

    Our local Asian Wedding venue has fallen foul of the Corona Cops

    https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/wedding-essex-venue-margaretting-breaks-4598326

    The web design of those {county}live.news sites is a masterclass in how not to do it.
  • isam said:

    Our local Asian Wedding venue has fallen foul of the Corona Cops

    https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/wedding-essex-venue-margaretting-breaks-4598326

    Fining one person £10000 might not be sufficient in extreme cases. If someone is doing a £100k wedding for 300 people, £10k isnt a big deterrent. Can they fine everyone who attends?
    After they've paid all their costs it'd be rare to be making more than a £10k profit for one event.
    Given it is a person rather than a business that got fined Id assumed it was a member of the wedding party rather than the building owner. Could be wrong, but would still lean to that interpretation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    isam said:

    Our local Asian Wedding venue has fallen foul of the Corona Cops

    https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/wedding-essex-venue-margaretting-breaks-4598326

    Fining one person £10000 might not be sufficient in extreme cases. If someone is doing a £100k wedding for 300 people, £10k isnt a big deterrent. Can they fine everyone who attends?
    Can they not prosecute particularly egregious cases of pretending the rules don't exist?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    isam said:
    Can't say that without the Tuesday data or by reporting date.
  • Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    Our local Asian Wedding venue has fallen foul of the Corona Cops

    https://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/wedding-essex-venue-margaretting-breaks-4598326

    Fining one person £10000 might not be sufficient in extreme cases. If someone is doing a £100k wedding for 300 people, £10k isnt a big deterrent. Can they fine everyone who attends?
    Can they not prosecute particularly egregious cases of pretending the rules don't exist?
    The courts have a massive backlog, the police dont have time or resources to investigate serious crimes, and the govt ceded all moral authority on enforcement with Cummings so I am surprised they are taking any serious action.
  • isam said:
    isam said:
    At first I thought is sounded harsh but then realised it is both they were supposed to be self isolating, and then hosted a 100 person party.

    Either on their own it would be harsh to fine students 10k imo, but the combination is pretty extravagant.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    isam said:
    Comparing Monday to Monday, over 1,000 increase.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2020

    isam said:
    Comparing Monday to Monday, over 1,000 increase.
    That's good isn't it, relative to the non forecast? A 10% increase
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited October 2020
    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    edited October 2020

    isam said:
    Comparing Monday to Monday, over 1,000 increase.
    Reporting date. Again.

    If only the government provided the data by specimen date.

    Unfortunately they hide it on a secret website that no-one can find... https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Well I think Bradford is in Tier 2. Which would mean a slight relaxation and the ability to meet in a garden. I think.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    isam said:
    isam said:
    At first I thought is sounded harsh but then realised it is both they were supposed to be self isolating, and then hosted a 100 person party.

    Either on their own it would be harsh to fine students 10k imo, but the combination is pretty extravagant.
    Yes, "I was self isolating with a communicable disease. But I accidentally invited a hundred close friends round for a beer."

    That's Charlie Gilmour levels of stupid.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    In the Commons, asked what needs to happen for these local restrictions to be lifted, Boris Johnson says the R number would have to fall below one
  • isam said:
    isam said:
    At first I thought is sounded harsh but then realised it is both they were supposed to be self isolating, and then hosted a 100 person party.

    Either on their own it would be harsh to fine students 10k imo, but the combination is pretty extravagant.
    Yes, "I was self isolating with a communicable disease. But I accidentally invited a hundred close friends round for a beer."

    That's Charlie Gilmour levels of stupid.
    It's like having unprotected sex with someone you know has AIDS.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Well I think Bradford is in Tier 2. Which would mean a slight relaxation and the ability to meet in a garden. I think.

    The whole idea of "meeting in gardens" is a nonsense in the UK over winter.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:
    isam said:
    At first I thought is sounded harsh but then realised it is both they were supposed to be self isolating, and then hosted a 100 person party.

    Either on their own it would be harsh to fine students 10k imo, but the combination is pretty extravagant.
    Yes, "I was self isolating with a communicable disease. But I accidentally invited a hundred close friends round for a beer."

    That's Charlie Gilmour levels of stupid.
    It's like having unprotected sex with someone you know has AIDS.
    I think I'd make your example quite a big favourite if I had to price it up
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    IanB2 said:

    In the Commons, asked what needs to happen for these local restrictions to be lifted, Boris Johnson says the R number would have to fall below one

    Lol, he has no idea. r falls below 1, cases drop then open up and back up it goes ?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited October 2020
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Just because it is stupid doesn't mean it is confusing.
    Government really need to get on top of the messaging here - TV and radio ads in every break tomorrow, a lot of social media advertising and engagement.

    We know that the Lobby hacks find all this stuff utterly confusing, and will do their best to convince everyone else it's confusing too - when they're not asking inane questions of ministers or looking for the edgiest of edge cases.
    I remember the AIDS campaign - you couldn't miss the ads or the leaflet
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Colne Valley doesnt want to be lumped in with Leeds and Bradford....Rushcliffe doesnt want to be lumped in with Nottingham. Bozo would have a lot fewer questions if he had simply made all Labour seats Tier 2.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Who do the public blame for bad flu seasons?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Just because it is stupid doesn't mean it is confusing.
    Government really need to get on top of the messaging here - TV and radio ads in every break tomorrow, a lot of social media advertising and engagement.

    We know that the Lobby hacks find all this stuff utterly confusing, and will do their best to convince everyone else it's confusing too - when they're not asking inane questions of ministers or looking for the edgiest of edge cases.
    I remember the AIDS campaign - you couldn't miss the ads or the leaflet
    I wonder whether going to the shops without a mask/visiting elderly parents will be seen as the new "unprotected sex". Everyone I know had lots of unprotected sex, and no one got AIDS - must be something in the water round here
  • TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
  • Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Just because it is stupid doesn't mean it is confusing.
    Government really need to get on top of the messaging here - TV and radio ads in every break tomorrow, a lot of social media advertising and engagement.

    We know that the Lobby hacks find all this stuff utterly confusing, and will do their best to convince everyone else it's confusing too - when they're not asking inane questions of ministers or looking for the edgiest of edge cases.
    I remember the AIDS campaign - you couldn't miss the ads or the leaflet
    That's when you had a competent Health Secretary and a PM willing to be overruled by her cabinet because she listened to the science.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020

    isam said:
    Comparing Monday to Monday, over 1,000 increase.
    Reporting date. Again.

    If only the government provided the data by specimen date.

    Unfortunately they hide it on a secret website that no-one can find... https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases

    I think that the whole Coronavirus situation shows that people are really, really bad at using and interpreting charts with lagged data on them.

    People want a simple daily update. A single figure to grasp. Having to re-interpret and re-evaluate the data every day is unsatisfactory. The idea that we can only accurately know what happened a week or a month after it happened is hard to grasp.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited October 2020
    Alistair said:

    isam said:
    Comparing Monday to Monday, over 1,000 increase.
    Reporting date. Again.

    If only the government provided the data by specimen date.

    Unfortunately they hide it on a secret website that no-one can find... https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases

    I think that the whole Coronavirus situation shows that people are really, really bad at using and interpreting charts with lagged data on them.

    People want a simple daily update. A single figure to grasp. Having to re-interpret and re-evaluate the data every day is unsatisfactory.
    We also want trend lines.

    Logic defying, mathematically unsound trend lines.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Just because it is stupid doesn't mean it is confusing.
    Government really need to get on top of the messaging here - TV and radio ads in every break tomorrow, a lot of social media advertising and engagement.

    We know that the Lobby hacks find all this stuff utterly confusing, and will do their best to convince everyone else it's confusing too - when they're not asking inane questions of ministers or looking for the edgiest of edge cases.
    I remember the AIDS campaign - you couldn't miss the ads or the leaflet
    That's when you had a competent Health Secretary and a PM willing to be overruled by her cabinet because she listened to the science.
    And a PM who was a scientist and understood the horrors of exponential growth.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594
    edited October 2020
    The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594
    isam said:

    Who do the public blame for bad flu seasons?
    They ought to blame no-one. It's just one of those things.
  • Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Just because it is stupid doesn't mean it is confusing.
    Government really need to get on top of the messaging here - TV and radio ads in every break tomorrow, a lot of social media advertising and engagement.

    We know that the Lobby hacks find all this stuff utterly confusing, and will do their best to convince everyone else it's confusing too - when they're not asking inane questions of ministers or looking for the edgiest of edge cases.
    I remember the AIDS campaign - you couldn't miss the ads or the leaflet
    That's when you had a competent Health Secretary and a PM willing to be overruled by her cabinet because she listened to the science.
    And a PM who was a scientist and understood the horrors of exponential growth.
    Indeed, I keep meaning to do a thread imagining what Norman Fowler and Margaret Thatcher would have done with Covid-19 based on their approach with the AIDS epidemic.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Who do the public blame for bad flu seasons?
    They ought to blame no-one. It's just one of those things.
    Yes, I tend to agree
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    isam said:
    isam said:
    At first I thought is sounded harsh but then realised it is both they were supposed to be self isolating, and then hosted a 100 person party.

    Either on their own it would be harsh to fine students 10k imo, but the combination is pretty extravagant.
    Yes, "I was self isolating with a communicable disease. But I accidentally invited a hundred close friends round for a beer."

    That's Charlie Gilmour levels of stupid.
    Im sure Scott will find a way to blame Boris for this
  • Despite lockdown, lockdown harder and lockdown with a Vengeance levels, we are still doing the square root of f##k all about stopping importing more cases.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    isam said:

    isam said:
    isam said:
    At first I thought is sounded harsh but then realised it is both they were supposed to be self isolating, and then hosted a 100 person party.

    Either on their own it would be harsh to fine students 10k imo, but the combination is pretty extravagant.
    Yes, "I was self isolating with a communicable disease. But I accidentally invited a hundred close friends round for a beer."

    That's Charlie Gilmour levels of stupid.
    It's like having unprotected sex with someone you know has AIDS.
    I think I'd make your example quite a big favourite if I had to price it up
    Yes, as hyperbolic retorts go, Eagles' will take some beating.
  • isam said:
    isam said:
    At first I thought is sounded harsh but then realised it is both they were supposed to be self isolating, and then hosted a 100 person party.

    Either on their own it would be harsh to fine students 10k imo, but the combination is pretty extravagant.
    Yes, "I was self isolating with a communicable disease. But I accidentally invited a hundred close friends round for a beer."

    That's Charlie Gilmour levels of stupid.
    Im sure Scott will find a way to blame Boris for this
    Its not difficult is it? Cummings.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Roger said:
    Roger, good to see you back again
    ....and you. Still running Ludlow Events?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andy_JS said:

    The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.


    Indeed, my sense is very, very few people are aware of that law. Equally, the law that allows the consumption of alcohol by children in one's home under parental supervision (I think, but cannot remember, that the lower age limit is five?)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594

    Despite lockdown, lockdown harder and lockdown with a Vengeance levels, we are still doing the square root of f##k all about stopping importing more cases.

    Unbelievable. We seem to have a fatalistic attitude in that regard.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Andy_JS said:

    The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.


    Indeed, my sense is very, very few people are aware of that law. Equally, the law that allows the consumption of alcohol by children in one's home under parental supervision (I think, but cannot remember, that the lower age limit is five?)
    It's not illegal for anyone to drink alcohol. The only restriction is on selling it.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
    She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Ha!

    Labour MP Tracy Brabin gets the the PM to say what a whole string of Tory MPs have been desperately trying all afternoon to avoid triggering him to say, given their eagerness to press release their local papers with news that they argued the case for their rural seat to be treated separately from the nearby big city.

    Wider areas need to be kept and considered together to provide some coherence to the geography of the restrictions.
  • I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,427
    I wonder, in retrospect, whether the Cummings case might have helped the government by creating a focus on individuals not following the rules, rather than whether the government was doing things sufficient to control the virus despite a few people breaking the rules.
  • TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
    She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
    Thanks.
  • I wonder, in retrospect, whether the Cummings case might have helped the government by creating a focus on individuals not following the rules, rather than whether the government was doing things sufficient to control the virus despite a few people breaking the rules.
    Maybe
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
    She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
    Thanks.
    The anger at Senate Republicans and, somewhat perversely, those who should have been relied upon to stop the excess, like Collins and Graham, is real, palpable and immense.
  • I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Was this really worth a tweet, a spelling mistake? Are peoples jobs now to go over everything the governemnt ever does which this much rigour
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    Surely it's pedantic to worry about pedantry in times like this.

    I'm sort of happy to just let the world go by and the government to whatever it thinks best at the moment.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:
    isam said:
    At first I thought is sounded harsh but then realised it is both they were supposed to be self isolating, and then hosted a 100 person party.

    Either on their own it would be harsh to fine students 10k imo, but the combination is pretty extravagant.
    Yes, "I was self isolating with a communicable disease. But I accidentally invited a hundred close friends round for a beer."

    That's Charlie Gilmour levels of stupid.
    It's like having unprotected sex with someone you know has AIDS.
    I think I'd make your example quite a big favourite if I had to price it up
    Yes, as hyperbolic retorts go, Eagles' will take some beating.
    I think I'd take my chances going to a house party hosted by someone with a cough rather than shag an AIDS victim bareback, but each to their own
  • I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    You'd be surprised.

    Lunch is the meal you have usually between 12pm and 3pm.

    Dinner is the evening meal.

    Someone who says they had a Hawaiian pizza for dinner at 1pm boils my piss in so many ways.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:
    Ideally they'd have to demonstrate they had a proper kitchen and chefs and took food seriously, rather than using a bank of microwaves.

    Nothing to do with Covid, just a general request.
  • I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    I assume until the meal is finished but the wider point is most people know what lunch or dinner is
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:
    Ideally they'd have to demonstrate they had a proper kitchen and chefs and took food seriously, rather than using a bank of microwaves.

    Nothing to do with Covid, just a general request.
    I take it you don't eat in spoons then. ;)
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    You'd be surprised.

    Lunch is the meal you have usually between 12pm and 3pm.

    Dinner is the evening meal.

    Someone who says they had a Hawaiian pizza for dinner at 1pm boils my piss in so many ways.
    Except, for some, Sunday dinner is the midday meal.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
    She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
    This surprises me, as I guessed from your OP that she would be a split-ticketer.

    Hmm.

    Maybe Ted Cruz was right after all, and the GOP are going to get a shellacking.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    JRM clearing tomorrow's business for a debate on the new virus regulations
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    I thought you could only have a table for two hours?
  • TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
    She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
    Thanks.
    The anger at Senate Republicans and, somewhat perversely, those who should have been relied upon to stop the excess, like Collins and Graham, is real, palpable and immense.
    I have this belief that the Amy Coney Barrett confirmation hearings will damage the likes of Collins in the election.

    Either they back Barrett and get smashed by their liberal voters or they don't and the Trumpers don't vote for the Senators.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Well the guidance isn't actually published yet, we only have what the journalists are writing about it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    RobD said:
    Ideally they'd have to demonstrate they had a proper kitchen and chefs and took food seriously, rather than using a bank of microwaves.

    Nothing to do with Covid, just a general request.
    How would Spoons do chips then?!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
    She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
    Thanks.
    The anger at Senate Republicans and, somewhat perversely, those who should have been relied upon to stop the excess, like Collins and Graham, is real, palpable and immense.
    I have this belief that the Amy Coney Barrett confirmation hearings will damage the likes of Collins in the election.

    Either they back Barrett and get smashed by their liberal voters or they don't and the Trumpers don't vote for the Senators.
    I concur
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Given the number of people who worked out that they could multiply Rishi's discount by insisting on being billed for each course as if it were a separate meal, I think we can rely on British initiative to maximise the wiggle room in the regulations.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,427

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    You'd be surprised.

    Lunch is the meal you have usually between 12pm and 3pm.

    Dinner is the evening meal.

    Someone who says they had a Hawaiian pizza for dinner at 1pm boils my piss in so many ways.
    Dinner used to be in the middle of the day, as the main meal of the day, but migrated later as fashions changed. Lunch is a relatively new invention.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    RobD said:

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Well the guidance isn't actually published yet, we only have what the journalists are writing about it.
    JRM says the orders will be laid any minute now.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    You'd be surprised.

    Lunch is the meal you have usually between 12pm and 3pm.

    Dinner is the evening meal.

    Someone who says they had a Hawaiian pizza for dinner at 1pm boils my piss in so many ways.
    Dinner used to be in the middle of the day, as the main meal of the day, but migrated later as fashions changed. Lunch is a relatively new invention.
    Indeed. Re Sunday dinner, see:

    https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/sunday_dinner
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Well the guidance isn't actually published yet, we only have what the journalists are writing about it.
    JRM says the orders will be laid any minute now.
    I am quivering with excitement. :D
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    You'd be surprised.

    Lunch is the meal you have usually between 12pm and 3pm.

    Dinner is the evening meal.

    Someone who says they had a Hawaiian pizza for dinner at 1pm boils my piss in so many ways.
    I agree mostly, but there's the vexed question of dinner-ladies. I'm happy that they may simply be people that work providing small people with their lunches, but I'd hate to defend that position.

    (Personal disclaimer - When I was young I certainly had dinner (for lunch) and tea (for dinner), but then when my late meal migrated to supper-time it seemed daft to call it tea, and pretentious to call it supper. So that had to be dinner, and thus lunch became a term that I regard as appropriate for a meal around midday. Supper seems to me to be a late (and cosy) dinner.)
  • isam said:

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    I thought you could only have a table for two hours?
    Is that a new law? I know some restaurants say they "might" want the tables back after 2 hours (even 1.5 hrs rarely) but hadnt heard about this being a law?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited October 2020

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Yes of course you can order dinner at 7 and drink until closing, if the proprietor is happy to serve you. And no, you don't have to order drinks all at once. And no it doesn't depend on how many courses, as long as it's a substantial meal. Just like any restaurant meal.

    I really don't see what the problem is, people seem to be making difficulties for the sake of making difficulties. It's completely clear, just like the very long-standing rule that 16- or 17-year olds can have an alcoholic drink with a meal if they are accompanying adults. No-one complains that this is unclear in law.
  • So looks like the announcement by Johnson is unraveling already.

    Now would be the time for Keir to propose his plan, WHERE IS HE.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,704
    RobD said:
    £10 toast with free beer.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Well the guidance isn't actually published yet, we only have what the journalists are writing about it.
    JRM says the orders will be laid any minute now.
    I am quivering with excitement. :D
    Surely you realise we are all waiting for you to tell us how simple they are?
  • RobD said:

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Well the guidance isn't actually published yet, we only have what the journalists are writing about it.
    Isn't that the point? The law comes into effect in about 30 hours and the restaurants don't have a clue what's actually allowed? If they ask they are called pedants.

    No wonder so many will break the law.
  • Media showing its ignorance, that is already a pre-existing legal concept as far as licencing is concerned.

    It is legal for a restaurant to serve beer, cider or wine to a 16 or 17 year old so long as they are having a "substantial meal" for instance. A classic example is that chips and a sandwich is not a substantial meal.

    Licenced premises that take the piss as far as licensing authorities are concerned tend to end up in trouble.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Well the guidance isn't actually published yet, we only have what the journalists are writing about it.
    Isn't that the point? The law comes into effect in about 30 hours and the restaurants don't have a clue what's actually allowed? If they ask they are called pedants.

    No wonder so many will break the law.
    But they are about to be published, imminently.
  • Do we have any info on Northern responses to the new lockdown measures?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    RobD said:

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Well the guidance isn't actually published yet, we only have what the journalists are writing about it.
    Isn't that the point? The law comes into effect in about 30 hours and the restaurants don't have a clue what's actually allowed? If they ask they are called pedants.

    No wonder so many will break the law.
    A restaurant licence works like that anyway: drink with meals, otherwise not. They have had at least my lifetime to get to grips with this.
  • I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.

    With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.

    So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    Yes of course you can order dinner at 7 and drink until closing, if the proprietor is happy to serve you. And no, you don't have to order drinks all at once. And no it doesn't depend on how many courses, as long as it's a substantial meal. Just like any restaurant meal.

    I really don't see what the problem is, people seem to be making difficulties for the sake of making difficulties. It's completely clear, just like the very long-standing rule that 16- or 17-year olds can have an alcoholic drink with a meal if they are accompanying adults. No-one complains that this is unclear in law.
    "I really don't see what the problem is, people seem to be making difficulties for the sake of making difficulties"

    They don't have anything else to do I suppose
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited October 2020

    I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.

    With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.

    So again, what the hell is Labour doing?

    Given nothing has yet been published, I am not sure how you can claim to have been proven correct.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
    She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
    Thanks.
    The anger at Senate Republicans and, somewhat perversely, those who should have been relied upon to stop the excess, like Collins and Graham, is real, palpable and immense.
    I have this belief that the Amy Coney Barrett confirmation hearings will damage the likes of Collins in the election.

    Either they back Barrett and get smashed by their liberal voters or they don't and the Trumpers don't vote for the Senators.
    I concur
    I'm not sure Collins. Maine voters are an independent bunch. I think Trump might allow her to vote against and make a speech stating it should be held after the election to have save her skin.

    For some of the others, yes.
  • isam said:

    I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary

    Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
    So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
    I thought you could only have a table for two hours?
    Is that a new law? I know some restaurants say they "might" want the tables back after 2 hours (even 1.5 hrs rarely) but hadnt heard about this being a law?
    I have experienced that a few times
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TimT said:

    From the Washington Post:

    "Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."

    Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/as-trump-stumbles-voters-finalize-their-choices-and-bidens-lead-grows/2020/10/11/0ed19f6e-0a7f-11eb-991c-be6ead8c4018_story.html

    Has Mrs @TimT decided yet :) ?
    isam said:
    Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
    Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?

    Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
    She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
    Thanks.
    Cheers Tim very interesting. If disconcerting for my bets.
This discussion has been closed.