I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
You'd be surprised.
Lunch is the meal you have usually between 12pm and 3pm.
Dinner is the evening meal.
Someone who says they had a Hawaiian pizza for dinner at 1pm boils my piss in so many ways.
Dinner used to be in the middle of the day, as the main meal of the day, but migrated later as fashions changed. Lunch is a relatively new invention.
Quite so. I maintain dinner is your main meal, whenever you have it, whilst lunchtime and teatime denote defined periods you have a meal. So dinnertime is flexible.
Just because it is stupid doesn't mean it is confusing.
Government really need to get on top of the messaging here - TV and radio ads in every break tomorrow, a lot of social media advertising and engagement.
We know that the Lobby hacks find all this stuff utterly confusing, and will do their best to convince everyone else it's confusing too - when they're not asking inane questions of ministers or looking for the edgiest of edge cases.
I remember the AIDS campaign - you couldn't miss the ads or the leaflet
That is probably the model of a public health information campaign.
Incredibly brave for the time, too.
If government don't set the messaging here quickly, the media are going to do it for them - and not in a way that's helpful either to the government or combating the pandemic.
I dont think he liked the way the government tried to slip his name into the announcement with the implication he was somehow happy with it; his tweet came out minutes later.
"Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."
Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations
Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
Khan needs to man up and deliver these messages directly. Difficult times and all that, which applies to all the leaders with government roles, but Khan has been almost invisible so far as I've been aware. It'll be very hard for him to lose his mayoralty to Bailey, but failing to be responsible is a decent start.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Well the guidance isn't actually published yet, we only have what the journalists are writing about it.
Isn't that the point? The law comes into effect in about 30 hours and the restaurants don't have a clue what's actually allowed? If they ask they are called pedants.
No wonder so many will break the law.
A restaurant licence works like that anyway: drink with meals, otherwise not. They have had at least my lifetime to get to grips with this.
If passing a restaurant and it is not busy, I have never been refused a table for drinks only. Are you saying they are breaking their licence by offering this? Or do they have to get separate restaurant and bar licences for the same venue?
I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.
With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.
So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
Last paragraph! You are sounding like a Johnson Tory. The PB effect?
Starmer is of course leagues above Johnson by not being Johnson but his numbers are going to keep slipping until he does something. It's starting to worry me.
So looks like the announcement by Johnson is unraveling already.
Now would be the time for Keir to propose his plan, WHERE IS HE.
If he had any imagination, he'd visit countries with more imaginative policies for *living with the virus indefinitely* which seem to include Sweden and Japan. Both ignored WHO's inexplicable 2020 about-turn and are following pre-2020 WHO guidance for dealing with epidemics.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.
With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.
So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
We're all proven correct with each hour that passes. Our good points seem to migrate to spot on, and our bad points seem really to have been mere speculative asides. My political judgement in hindsight is damned good, but the reality when looked at from the point of view of my BF account is less fantastic. (Still a decent positive mind you, which is a source of minor pride, as I'm sure it is for others on PB)
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
The public mostly understand it. Journalists, on the other hand...
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
How else can businesses and patrons possibly comply with the law if they arent allowed to understand it by asking questions?
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
How else can businesses and patrons possibly comply with the law if they arent allowed to understand it by asking questions?
I'm sure business owners would read the guidelines once they have been published. I would worry if they are relying on journalists to fill in the gaps.
Khan needs to man up and deliver these messages directly. Difficult times and all that, which applies to all the leaders with government roles, but Khan has been almost invisible so far as I've been aware. It'll be very hard for him to lose his mayoralty to Bailey, but failing to be responsible is a decent start.
Our house is probably one of the top few thousand closest to being not in London of any in London - would be quite annoying if London is locked down more so than Thurrock or Brentwood.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
How else can businesses and patrons possibly comply with the law if they arent allowed to understand it by asking questions?
Questions are fine but most journalists only want gotcha moments or are way out of their own depth
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Isn't this all a bit academic in the face of economic reality? If you're barred from mixing indoors with other households in both "High" and "Very High" risk areas, and the government is in any case doing its best to persuade people to take risks, very few people are going to visit either restaurants or pubs, so the businesses become unviable regardless of what the fine detail of regulations say.
As things stand, it appears that Sunak's much touted new furlough scheme should be renamed the Liverpool furlough scheme with the rest of the country having to settle for the Job Support Scheme which just adds costs on to employers and is absolutely useless if you can't trade through the pandemic anyway. The "High" as opposed to "Very High" risk hospitality businesses and their suppliers are being hung out to dry. There's going to be outrage from businesses as this hits home. It's time to sell shares in Sunak.
I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.
With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.
So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
Last paragraph! You are sounding like a Johnson Tory. The PB effect?
Starmer is of course leagues above Johnson by not being Johnson but his numbers are going to keep slipping until he does something. It's starting to worry me.
He signalled a significant change of approach today: We had been giving him the b.o.d, we have now lost patience. But who knows what will come of it.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
It is, frankly, impossible for any law or guidance to cover every single variation and permutation that exists. An argument over how much detail is the right amount is fair enough, but seeking precise detail on every point is a recipe for disaster, the more detail the more opportunity for confusion sometimes. Drawing the line is difficult, and there will be gaps that need to or should have been addressed, but the implication that everything can be covered is simply unfair.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
We are coming full circle. It used to be embarrassing to admit weakness or stupidity, but more and more people seem to revel in feigning both for attention
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
The public mostly understand it. Journalists, on the other hand...
I fully expect an hour of questions at the PM press conference along the lines of I live in tier x, work in tier y, my ex-wife lives in tier z, i see my kids alternate Thursday & they stay over..can they and can I take them to Pizza Hut in a different town...
And I want to go skiing in February, will I be able to go and can you list exactly which countries I will be allowed to go to...
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
How else can businesses and patrons possibly comply with the law if they arent allowed to understand it by asking questions?
Stupid bl*&dy questions. Just behave responsibly. I went out for a meal last week with my parents, sister and wife. We were served at the table, had several rounds of drinks brought and paid at the table. Do that and all is fine. Is it reasonable to have a meal at 6 and then drink till 10? Maybe, but at least you will be sitting at a table and not mixing. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand.
Khan needs to man up and deliver these messages directly. Difficult times and all that, which applies to all the leaders with government roles, but Khan has been almost invisible so far as I've been aware. It'll be very hard for him to lose his mayoralty to Bailey, but failing to be responsible is a decent start.
Our house is probably one of the top few thousand closest to being not in London of any in London - would be quite annoying if London is locked down more so than Thurrock or Brentwood.
I'm digging a tunnel!
That's a long damn tunnel south! (Tunneling INTO! Essex being unthinkable after all).
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
The public mostly understand it. Journalists, on the other hand...
I fully expect an hour of questions at the PM pree conference along the lines of I live in tier x, work in tier y, my ex-wife lives in tier z, i see my kids alternate Thursday & they stay over..can they and can I take them to Pizza Hut in a different town...
Yes you can, but not Pizza Express, because they put sultanas on pizzas.
Khan needs to man up and deliver these messages directly. Difficult times and all that, which applies to all the leaders with government roles, but Khan has been almost invisible so far as I've been aware. It'll be very hard for him to lose his mayoralty to Bailey, but failing to be responsible is a decent start.
Our house is probably one of the top few thousand closest to being not in London of any in London - would be quite annoying if London is locked down more so than Thurrock or Brentwood.
I'm digging a tunnel!
That's a long damn tunnel south! (Tunneling INTO! Essex being unthinkable after all).
Ha I am already there (here) as far as I am concerned, but it seems civically we are Londoners.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
You'd be surprised.
Lunch is the meal you have usually between 12pm and 3pm.
Dinner is the evening meal.
Someone who says they had a Hawaiian pizza for dinner at 1pm boils my piss in so many ways.
Dinner used to be in the middle of the day, as the main meal of the day, but migrated later as fashions changed. Lunch is a relatively new invention.
Quite so. I maintain dinner is your main meal, whenever you have it, whilst lunchtime and teatime denote defined periods you have a meal. So dinnertime is flexible.
This debate has been had on here so many times that I didn't think there could be a corner uncovered. But you prove me wrong. Hats off.
So looks like the announcement by Johnson is unraveling already.
Now would be the time for Keir to propose his plan, WHERE IS HE.
If he had any imagination, he'd visit countries with more imaginative policies for *living with the virus indefinitely* which seem to include Sweden and Japan. Both ignored WHO's inexplicable 2020 about-turn and are following pre-2020 WHO guidance for dealing with epidemics.
Sweden? That old chestnut! But other than that a good idea.
I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.
With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.
So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
You keep repeating this ad nauseam. Labour does not hold power. It is not in government. Starmer has made many, largely constructive, criticisms of the delivery of government policy (not so much the policy itself, as they are largely on the same page). There are signs that the government is listening, a bit - e.g. more local say, more local track and trace, Sunak's announcements last week.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
It is, frankly, impossible for any law or guidance to cover every single variation and permutation that exists. An argument over how much detail is the right amount is fair enough, but seeking precise detail on every point is a recipe for disaster, the more detail the more opportunity for confusion sometimes. Drawing the line is difficult, and there will be gaps that need to or should have been addressed, but the implication that everything can be covered is simply unfair.
This is how we ended up with police officers trying to tell shops what shapes of chocolates were permitted or illegal back at Easter. If its a law it does need to be clear. Partly so police can enforce it, but more importantly to protect the rule of law generally.
I wish the government when asked about edge cases would just stick to a motto we are trying to minimze transmission, to do so we must sensibly minimize contact between people, especially inter-household mixing, and thus ask yourself do I need be doing this.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
The public mostly understand it. Journalists, on the other hand...
I fully expect an hour of questions at the PM pree conference along the lines of I live in tier x, work in tier y, my ex-wife lives in tier z, i see my kids alternate Thursday & they stay over..can they and can I take them to Pizza Hut in a different town...
Yes you can, but not Pizza Express, because they put sultanas on pizzas.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
You'd be surprised.
Lunch is the meal you have usually between 12pm and 3pm.
Dinner is the evening meal.
Someone who says they had a Hawaiian pizza for dinner at 1pm boils my piss in so many ways.
I agree mostly, but there's the vexed question of dinner-ladies. I'm happy that they may simply be people that work providing small people with their lunches, but I'd hate to defend that position.
(Personal disclaimer - When I was young I certainly had dinner (for lunch) and tea (for dinner), but then when my late meal migrated to supper-time it seemed daft to call it tea, and pretentious to call it supper. So that had to be dinner, and thus lunch became a term that I regard as appropriate for a meal around midday. Supper seems to me to be a late (and cosy) dinner.)
Same for me in an aspirant working class family in the south-west London / north-east Surrey area. It seemed to change in the late 70s early 80s for us. Probably Fatcha's fault, like everything else.
So have I got this right, I live on the border Lancashire and Cumbria, on the Lancs side,just. I can go to the pub in Lancashire on my own, sit at a table for table service, and then a mate from the village wanders in and says"Hi Jayfdee, can I join you", the answer is no, 2 households cannot mix. OK I say lets nip up the road a very short distance into Cumbria and have a pint together. I am fortunate enough to own property in both Lancashire, and Cumbria, and could possibly game my address if travel restrictions come into play. Do people really believe I will not allow my Family to visit for Christmas. It is an unenforceable mess.
The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.
Indeed, my sense is very, very few people are aware of that law. Equally, the law that allows the consumption of alcohol by children in one's home under parental supervision (I think, but cannot remember, that the lower age limit is five?)
It's not illegal for anyone to drink alcohol. The only restriction is on selling it.
Wait, so my 11-year-old son can drink alcohol in a pub as long as he doesn't buy it?
So have I got this right, I live on the border Lancashire and Cumbria, on the Lancs side,just. I can go to the pub in Lancashire on my own, sit at a table for table service, and then a mate from the village wanders in and says"Hi Jayfdee, can I join you", the answer is no, 2 households cannot mix. OK I say lets nip up the road a very short distance into Cumbria and have a pint together. I am fortunate enough to own property in both Lancashire, and Cumbria, and could possibly game my address if travel restrictions come into play. Do people really believe I will not allow my Family to visit for Christmas. It is an unenforceable mess.
I'm guessing 95% of people in the affected areas are not in the same situation as you.
I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.
With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.
So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
You keep repeating this ad nauseam. Labour does not hold power. It is not in government. Starmer has made many, largely constructive, criticisms of the delivery of government policy (not so much the policy itself, as they are largely on the same page). There are signs that the government is listening, a bit - e.g. more local say, more local track and trace, Sunak's announcements last week.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
The public mostly understand it. Journalists, on the other hand...
I fully expect an hour of questions at the PM pree conference along the lines of I live in tier x, work in tier y, my ex-wife lives in tier z, i see my kids alternate Thursday & they stay over..can they and can I take them to Pizza Hut in a different town...
Yes you can, but not Pizza Express, because they put sultanas on pizzas.
"Four years ago, voters who decided in the presidential campaign’s waning days broke decisively for Trump, a political newcomer, delivering him a shock victory. This year, evidence suggests there are few who have yet to make up their minds. But many of those who had been on the fence appear to be coming down on Biden’s side."
Maybe the confirmation bias at work, but this is very much in line with my more anecdotal observations
Things always heat up on a tuesday. Well they don't but if you're going by reported date it's always the worst day.
Yep, she's a Trump => Biden switcher. As a self-employed physician, should could not stomach what Hillary would have done to the healthcare industry. She never liked Trump, but never comprehended how dangerous or truly vile he was. Scales lifted from eyes time. She's an ABT now.
If you don't mind me asking, do you think that will also impact her down ticket choices?
Because if the national polling is largely right and we do see a Biden landslide then the GOP are absolutely screwed if there's no split ticketting.
She shares my view that the GOP at all levels of Federal elections have abrogated their responsibility to be a check and balance on the Presidency. She will be voting Dem all the way down the ticket.
This is music to my book. In 2016 you and your wife were the 1-stop vox pop that indicated Trump would win. You are now the perfect anecdote in 2020 that he will lose biggly.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
It is, frankly, impossible for any law or guidance to cover every single variation and permutation that exists. An argument over how much detail is the right amount is fair enough, but seeking precise detail on every point is a recipe for disaster, the more detail the more opportunity for confusion sometimes. Drawing the line is difficult, and there will be gaps that need to or should have been addressed, but the implication that everything can be covered is simply unfair.
In legislation and regulation, there will always be tension between achieving the intent of the rule (which probably is best achieved by less detailed laws) and the desire of businesses to have certainty (only achieved with black and white detailed descriptions).
I think in part this tension arises from two misconceptions, or wishes: 1. That legislation is definitive - once and done, rather than an ongoing process 2. That responsibility for good legislative outcomes is divided rather than shared by all stakeholders, including government, citizens and corporations.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
The public mostly understand it. Journalists, on the other hand...
I fully expect an hour of questions at the PM pree conference along the lines of I live in tier x, work in tier y, my ex-wife lives in tier z, i see my kids alternate Thursday & they stay over..can they and can I take them to Pizza Hut in a different town...
Yes you can, but not Pizza Express, because they put sultanas on pizzas.
Do they? Are you mistaking sultanas for olives?
Veneziana: Pine kernels, red onion, capers, black olives, sultanas, mozzarella and tomato on a Romana base.
Leggera Veneziana: Under 600 calories. Pine kernels, red onion, capers, black olives, sultanas, light mozzarella and tomato served on a Classic-sized ring of our wholemeal, white and spelt dough, with a hole in the middle filled with a fresh, dressed salad..
The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.
Indeed, my sense is very, very few people are aware of that law. Equally, the law that allows the consumption of alcohol by children in one's home under parental supervision (I think, but cannot remember, that the lower age limit is five?)
It's not illegal for anyone to drink alcohol. The only restriction is on selling it.
Wait, so my 11-year-old son can drink alcohol in a pub as long as he doesn't buy it?
Sorry, I think I misread your post. You already said there was no restriction on children drinking at home.
The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.
Indeed, my sense is very, very few people are aware of that law. Equally, the law that allows the consumption of alcohol by children in one's home under parental supervision (I think, but cannot remember, that the lower age limit is five?)
It's not illegal for anyone to drink alcohol. The only restriction is on selling it.
Wait, so my 11-year-old son can drink alcohol in a pub as long as he doesn't buy it?
Different times but I would have had a taste of wine at restaurants at that age in the 80s. Small glass by 13 or so.
I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.
With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.
So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
You keep repeating this ad nauseam. Labour does not hold power. It is not in government. Starmer has made many, largely constructive, criticisms of the delivery of government policy (not so much the policy itself, as they are largely on the same page). There are signs that the government is listening, a bit - e.g. more local say, more local track and trace, Sunak's announcements last week.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
The public mostly understand it. Journalists, on the other hand...
I fully expect an hour of questions at the PM pree conference along the lines of I live in tier x, work in tier y, my ex-wife lives in tier z, i see my kids alternate Thursday & they stay over..can they and can I take them to Pizza Hut in a different town...
Yes you can, but not Pizza Express, because they put sultanas on pizzas.
Do they? Are you mistaking sultanas for olives?
Veneziana: Pine kernels, red onion, capers, black olives, sultanas, mozzarella and tomato on a Romana base.
Leggera Veneziana: Under 600 calories. Pine kernels, red onion, capers, black olives, sultanas, light mozzarella and tomato served on a Classic-sized ring of our wholemeal, white and spelt dough, with a hole in the middle filled with a fresh, dressed salad..
I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.
With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.
So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
Last paragraph! You are sounding like a Johnson Tory. The PB effect?
Starmer is of course leagues above Johnson by not being Johnson but his numbers are going to keep slipping until he does something. It's starting to worry me.
He signalled a significant change of approach today: We had been giving him the b.o.d, we have now lost patience. But who knows what will come of it.
The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.
Indeed, my sense is very, very few people are aware of that law. Equally, the law that allows the consumption of alcohol by children in one's home under parental supervision (I think, but cannot remember, that the lower age limit is five?)
It's not illegal for anyone to drink alcohol. The only restriction is on selling it.
Wait, so my 11-year-old son can drink alcohol in a pub as long as he doesn't buy it?
Sorry, I think I misread your post. You already said there was no restriction on children drinking at home.
No worries, thanks for the reply. Google says five and over to drink at home (legally).
The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.
Indeed, my sense is very, very few people are aware of that law. Equally, the law that allows the consumption of alcohol by children in one's home under parental supervision (I think, but cannot remember, that the lower age limit is five?)
It's not illegal for anyone to drink alcohol. The only restriction is on selling it.
Wait, so my 11-year-old son can drink alcohol in a pub as long as he doesn't buy it?
Sorry, I think I misread your post. You already said there was no restriction on children drinking at home.
No worries, thanks for the reply. Google says five and over to drink at home (legally).
I hadn't appreciated there was a lower bound. Not that I'd recommend anyone giving their six year old alcohol.
I find the pedantic nature of some of this unnecessary
Lunch or dinner hardly needs defining
So can I order dinner at 7 and drink til closing? Do I have to order drinks all at once? Does it depend how many courses? Businesses will need to know the answers to these to operate lawfully. Detail is needed, it can't just be waved away as edge cases or pedantry.
Do we really need to specify every single bl*&dy detail? Can the British public really not understand this? I despair of this attitude.
The public mostly understand it. Journalists, on the other hand...
I fully expect an hour of questions at the PM pree conference along the lines of I live in tier x, work in tier y, my ex-wife lives in tier z, i see my kids alternate Thursday & they stay over..can they and can I take them to Pizza Hut in a different town...
Yes you can, but not Pizza Express, because they put sultanas on pizzas.
Do they? Are you mistaking sultanas for olives?
Veneziana: Pine kernels, red onion, capers, black olives, sultanas, mozzarella and tomato on a Romana base.
Leggera Veneziana: Under 600 calories. Pine kernels, red onion, capers, black olives, sultanas, light mozzarella and tomato served on a Classic-sized ring of our wholemeal, white and spelt dough, with a hole in the middle filled with a fresh, dressed salad..
The drinks with a meal thing reminds me of the fact that 16 and 17 year olds can drink alcohol (excluding spirits) with a meal if they're with someone aged 18 or older, which a surprising number of people aren't aware of.
Indeed, my sense is very, very few people are aware of that law. Equally, the law that allows the consumption of alcohol by children in one's home under parental supervision (I think, but cannot remember, that the lower age limit is five?)
It's not illegal for anyone to drink alcohol. The only restriction is on selling it.
Wait, so my 11-year-old son can drink alcohol in a pub as long as he doesn't buy it?
Not in a pub.
Buying, selling, consuming and knowingly allowing a colleague to sell are all illegal in a pub and separately. If a 17 year old gets an 18 year old to buy a vodka for him in a pub or restaurant and a bartender knowingly permits that ... And the bartender's colleague knowingly permits it too ... Then all 4 have broken the law and can be sanctioned.
I recall saying these measures would be complicated and difficult to understand and the end result would be they would be ignored.
With each hour that passes, I am proven correct. This Government is hopeless.
So again, what the hell is Labour doing?
You keep repeating this ad nauseam. Labour does not hold power. It is not in government. Starmer has made many, largely constructive, criticisms of the delivery of government policy (not so much the policy itself, as they are largely on the same page). There are signs that the government is listening, a bit - e.g. more local say, more local track and trace, Sunak's announcements last week.
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Incredibly brave for the time, too.
If government don't set the messaging here quickly, the media are going to do it for them - and not in a way that's helpful either to the government or combating the pandemic.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/oct/12/uk-coronavirus-news-boris-johnson-local-covid-restrictions-three-tier
I'm digging a tunnel!
As things stand, it appears that Sunak's much touted new furlough scheme should be renamed the Liverpool furlough scheme with the rest of the country having to settle for the Job Support Scheme which just adds costs on to employers and is absolutely useless if you can't trade through the pandemic anyway. The "High" as opposed to "Very High" risk hospitality businesses and their suppliers are being hung out to dry. There's going to be outrage from businesses as this hits home. It's time to sell shares in Sunak.
And I want to go skiing in February, will I be able to go and can you list exactly which countries I will be allowed to go to...
I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand.
OK I say lets nip up the road a very short distance into Cumbria and have a pint together.
I am fortunate enough to own property in both Lancashire, and Cumbria, and could possibly game my address if travel restrictions come into play.
Do people really believe I will not allow my Family to visit for Christmas.
It is an unenforceable mess.
I think in part this tension arises from two misconceptions, or wishes:
1. That legislation is definitive - once and done, rather than an ongoing process
2. That responsibility for good legislative outcomes is divided rather than shared by all stakeholders, including government, citizens and corporations.
Leggera Veneziana: Under 600 calories. Pine kernels, red onion, capers, black olives, sultanas, light mozzarella and tomato served on a Classic-sized ring of our wholemeal, white and spelt dough, with a hole in the middle filled with a fresh, dressed salad..
https://www.pizzaexpress.com/restaurant-menu/restaurant-menu
https://saygood.it/2019/12/30/pizza-di-scarola/
Buying, selling, consuming and knowingly allowing a colleague to sell are all illegal in a pub and separately. If a 17 year old gets an 18 year old to buy a vodka for him in a pub or restaurant and a bartender knowingly permits that ... And the bartender's colleague knowingly permits it too ... Then all 4 have broken the law and can be sanctioned.
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