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If Trumps wins next month, it’s the economy, stupid – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,028
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    (£)

    "How closely linked are lockdown and Brexit? | The Spectator
    Patrick West

    Once upon a time, a long time ago, this country was consumed by the matter of Brexit. Everywhere you turned, in every medium, even among friends and colleagues, you couldn't get away from the subject: everyone was talking about Brexit. We were obsessed by it. From 2016 to 2019 there was no escape.

    All of this changed this year. With the pandemic, the rancorous matter of Brexit vanished, or at least stopped becoming the emotive, divisive matter of primary concern. It has been relegated to a pedestrian news story about trading rights. In the year of the coronavirus and all its horrors, paranoia and despair, Brexit has become a sideshow. Right?

    Wrong. While the clamorous conflict between Leavers and Remainers has ostensibly ceased, in our collective subconscious the same cleavage in our society remains – only the subject matter has changed. As you may have concluded from newspapers and your social media feed, Remainer and Leave camps have merely metamorphosed into pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown tribes."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-closely-linked-are-lockdown-and-brexit-

    Strangely enough just spent an hour chatting to a bloke I haven't seen since before lockdown.
    He was an extreme Remainer and told everyone so.
    Turns out he's now a ferocious anti-lockdowner. And is equally forthcoming in his views.
    There is a definite type of person that is incapable of holding moderate views on anything, but never notices or seems to care how their extreme view on one thing is completely inconsistent with a similar view on another.

    (And they often only hold those views because they love to argue - not saying that's true of your friend, of course).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,531
    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,146
    Florida polls are partial exits at this point.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I would assume/hope that Sunak will walk from Cabinet before supporting a six month lockdown. He can rally the resistance from the back benches.
    There's a morbid fascination in working out how bad it would have to get: for the UK to default. The ability to print our own money makes a default very unlikely - but not, I think, impossible

    A 25% drop in GDP and a debt-to-GDP of 200%? I am not an economist. Maybe some expert out there can give us the odds
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,346
    edited October 2020
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I would assume/hope that Sunak will walk from Cabinet before supporting a six month lockdown. He can rally the resistance from the back benches.
    There's a morbid fascination in working out how bad it would have to get: for the UK to default. The ability to print our own money makes a default very unlikely - but not, I think, impossible

    A 25% drop in GDP and a debt-to-GDP of 200%? I am not an economist. Maybe some expert out there can give us the odds
    A more likely scenario in that case is a Weimar or Confedaracy style orgy of printing which debases the money supply so far our debts are effectively worthless anyway.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
    The culture of face is also still extremely strong.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,028
    Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
    Yes. People will comply with rules they don't like if a) there are stiff punishments AND b) they think they're likely to be caught. Our government has been excellent at announcing stiff punishments, but our police have not seriously enforced them as far as I can tell so it's been a bit of a farce. No wonder a poll said only 18% of people have followed the rules.

    (Also the rules keep changing).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,395
    Fishing said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    (£)

    "How closely linked are lockdown and Brexit? | The Spectator
    Patrick West

    Once upon a time, a long time ago, this country was consumed by the matter of Brexit. Everywhere you turned, in every medium, even among friends and colleagues, you couldn't get away from the subject: everyone was talking about Brexit. We were obsessed by it. From 2016 to 2019 there was no escape.

    All of this changed this year. With the pandemic, the rancorous matter of Brexit vanished, or at least stopped becoming the emotive, divisive matter of primary concern. It has been relegated to a pedestrian news story about trading rights. In the year of the coronavirus and all its horrors, paranoia and despair, Brexit has become a sideshow. Right?

    Wrong. While the clamorous conflict between Leavers and Remainers has ostensibly ceased, in our collective subconscious the same cleavage in our society remains – only the subject matter has changed. As you may have concluded from newspapers and your social media feed, Remainer and Leave camps have merely metamorphosed into pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown tribes."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-closely-linked-are-lockdown-and-brexit-

    Strangely enough just spent an hour chatting to a bloke I haven't seen since before lockdown.
    He was an extreme Remainer and told everyone so.
    Turns out he's now a ferocious anti-lockdowner. And is equally forthcoming in his views.
    There is a definite type of person that is incapable of holding moderate views on anything, but never notices or seems to care how their extreme view on one thing is completely inconsistent with a similar view on another.

    (And they often only hold those views because they love to argue - not saying that's true of your friend, of course).
    No. I think you are on to something. He's more of an acquaintance round the village, but is always entertaining company as he is well informed and very opinionated.
    He seems utterly oblivious to the idea anyone may not agree with his less than consistent philosophy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169

    Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
    The culture of face is also still extremely strong.
    Plus the fact that behind everything is the shadow of the war-sometime-in-the-next-five-minutes with the North.

    The numbers on what would happen in the first hour of such a war are pretty incredible.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 929
    Latest Iowa Poll both on 49. Trump has picked up. He'll make it.
  • .
    Nigelb said:

    This is a pretty good thread for thinking about policy responses to Covid.

    https://twitter.com/NAChristakis/status/1315286236907667456

    There have only been two thousand Covid deaths in Switzerland, so we should definitely use these Swiss cheese masks.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
    The culture of face is also still extremely strong.
    Whereas here we can't decide if we want a culture of hands or a culture of space.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    12,872 new cases.

    Incoming twattish journos with cases down x% (or do they only do that when it is a daily increase).

    Well we must take any good (ish) news that we can. A few days ago it looked like we might be exploding just like France (they had an incredible 26,000 new cases yesterday). Perhaps, just perhaps, the 10pm curfews and so on are slowing it down. Inshallah!!
    Weekend, let's see what it is on Monday.
    Tuesday surely?

    Monday still has a lagged weekend effect. Tuesday is generally the day everyone suddenly is horrified.

    And more that six months into the pandemic it would be nice if the media would eventually start reporting numbers versus same day last week and not versus yesterday.
    One reason that by specimen date is useful, for cases, is that the Sunday, Monday and, to an extent, Tuesday are in the weekend shadow. So the reporting is crammed into the rest of the week.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,809
    edited October 2020
    Fishing said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    (£)

    "How closely linked are lockdown and Brexit? | The Spectator
    Patrick West

    Once upon a time, a long time ago, this country was consumed by the matter of Brexit. Everywhere you turned, in every medium, even among friends and colleagues, you couldn't get away from the subject: everyone was talking about Brexit. We were obsessed by it. From 2016 to 2019 there was no escape.

    All of this changed this year. With the pandemic, the rancorous matter of Brexit vanished, or at least stopped becoming the emotive, divisive matter of primary concern. It has been relegated to a pedestrian news story about trading rights. In the year of the coronavirus and all its horrors, paranoia and despair, Brexit has become a sideshow. Right?

    Wrong. While the clamorous conflict between Leavers and Remainers has ostensibly ceased, in our collective subconscious the same cleavage in our society remains – only the subject matter has changed. As you may have concluded from newspapers and your social media feed, Remainer and Leave camps have merely metamorphosed into pro-lockdown and anti-lockdown tribes."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-closely-linked-are-lockdown-and-brexit-

    Strangely enough just spent an hour chatting to a bloke I haven't seen since before lockdown.
    He was an extreme Remainer and told everyone so.
    Turns out he's now a ferocious anti-lockdowner. And is equally forthcoming in his views.
    There is a definite type of person that is incapable of holding moderate views on anything, but never notices or seems to care how their extreme view on one thing is completely inconsistent with a similar view on another.

    (And they often only hold those views because they love to argue - not saying that's true of your friend, of course).
    Why are being a remainer and anti lockdown inconsistent? I am and can articulate why (as below ) - I also dont especially like to argue - I dont hold extreme views on anything much but will never just accept a majority view if I feel the impact of doing so is a disaster.Hence why I have strong views on brexit and lockdown
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Good post @TSE. The Gallup poll, which showed 56% of Americans thinking they were better off than 4 yours ago, would also be another supporting factor. It is why I think Pence was smart to repeat ad infinitum, the stats about Trump's tax cuts giving families several extra thousand dollars. Contrary to what we may think here, most people are not that interested in politics or waking up every day and hating Trump. What gets posted on Twitter is really a representation of what a small subset of the population is thinking.

  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,028
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I would assume/hope that Sunak will walk from Cabinet before supporting a six month lockdown. He can rally the resistance from the back benches.
    There's a morbid fascination in working out how bad it would have to get: for the UK to default. The ability to print our own money makes a default very unlikely - but not, I think, impossible

    A 25% drop in GDP and a debt-to-GDP of 200%? I am not an economist. Maybe some expert out there can give us the odds
    It is an interesting question.

    Japanese (gross) debt-to-GDP is 214% and their long bond interest rate is 0.04% so I think even at those levels we'd have some way to go.

    It is far likelier that, rather than an outright default, the government would default by inflation. Look for a relaxation of the Bank of England's inflation target from 2% to 4-5% for example. A 5% inflation rate reduces the debt by half in 15 years. In theory, the exchange rate would slump, but in practice, as all our trading partners face similar problems, that may not happen.
  • Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
    Yes. People will comply with rules they don't like if a) there are stiff punishments AND b) they think they're likely to be caught. Our government has been excellent at announcing stiff punishments, but our police have not seriously enforced them as far as I can tell so it's been a bit of a farce. No wonder a poll said only 18% of people have followed the rules.

    (Also the rules keep changing).
    They have also not lead by example - Dominic Cummings etc
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    LadyG said:

    12,872 new cases.

    Incoming twattish journos with cases down x% (or do they only do that when it is a daily increase).

    Well we must take any good (ish) news that we can. A few days ago it looked like we might be exploding just like France (they had an incredible 26,000 new cases yesterday). Perhaps, just perhaps, the 10pm curfews and so on are slowing it down. Inshallah!!
    Weekend.
    Does France not do weekends then?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,870

    Roger said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    Three surely?
    As my girlfriend will tell you, Salford is not Manchester.
    Tell her that would make it four. UMIST MMU University of Manchester
  • F1: post-race ramble:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/10/germany-post-race-analysis-2020.html

    I was wrong about Hulkenberg and points, but also about how many cars would end up retiring. Verstappen bet ended up mildly profitable, but that's fine.

    You could save a lot of time by accepting that Lewis Hamilton always wins. Did you not earlier in the season put the pb massive onto backing Hamilton to break Schumacher's record? It must be close now. There was also a SPotY tip from someone I think.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169
    felix said:

    LadyG said:

    12,872 new cases.

    Incoming twattish journos with cases down x% (or do they only do that when it is a daily increase).

    Well we must take any good (ish) news that we can. A few days ago it looked like we might be exploding just like France (they had an incredible 26,000 new cases yesterday). Perhaps, just perhaps, the 10pm curfews and so on are slowing it down. Inshallah!!
    Weekend.
    Does France not do weekends then?
    The weekend effect tends to hit Sunday and Monday, in many countries - reporting what happened on Friday happens fairly well on Saturday.
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    Three surely?
    As my girlfriend will tell you, Salford is not Manchester.
    Tell her that would make it four. UMIST MMU University of Manchester
    UMIST closed in 2004 and merged with what is now the University of Manchester.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,703
    9.35m votes now cast.

    Including 1.65m votes in Florida.

    https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/index.html
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K population

    image
  • Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
    Yes. People will comply with rules they don't like if a) there are stiff punishments AND b) they think they're likely to be caught. Our government has been excellent at announcing stiff punishments, but our police have not seriously enforced them as far as I can tell so it's been a bit of a farce. No wonder a poll said only 18% of people have followed the rules.

    (Also the rules keep changing).
    They have also not lead by example - Dominic Cummings etc
    The rules also need to be clear. They are not. If Cabinet ministers up to and including the Prime Minister himself do not understand the rules that they have imposed, what hope is there for masked social distancing on the Clapham omnibus?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169
    UK case summary

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169
    UH Hospitals

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • I recall when Malmesbury's red data table only had 5 rows highlighted red . . .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169
    UK Deaths

    image
    image
    image
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    The most important slide you'll see all day. Ask your MP to take a good look at it and then get into the chamber tomorrow and start asking some bloody hard questions of this administration.

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1315301410255310849/photo/2

    For some reason he's left off the 4 months between the publication of that story and the start of his line graph.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    LadyG said:

    12,872 new cases.

    Incoming twattish journos with cases down x% (or do they only do that when it is a daily increase).

    Well we must take any good (ish) news that we can. A few days ago it looked like we might be exploding just like France (they had an incredible 26,000 new cases yesterday). Perhaps, just perhaps, the 10pm curfews and so on are slowing it down. Inshallah!!
    Weekend.
    Does France not do weekends then?
    The weekend effect tends to hit Sunday and Monday, in many countries - reporting what happened on Friday happens fairly well on Saturday.
    Well France has jumped above 26000 yesterday so lord knows what Monday will bring yet apparently it's all about how bad the UK is. Viewed from the outside - in Spain - the insular nature of the UK reporting reveals a huge level of ignorance and partisanship directing much of the 'news' while ignoring the fact that in much of the rest of Europe things are as bad or much worse. Of course much of the 'media' is simply driven by politics. Even Starmer has lost the plot recently and left himself exposed as a ditherer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,346

    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
    Yes. People will comply with rules they don't like if a) there are stiff punishments AND b) they think they're likely to be caught. Our government has been excellent at announcing stiff punishments, but our police have not seriously enforced them as far as I can tell so it's been a bit of a farce. No wonder a poll said only 18% of people have followed the rules.

    (Also the rules keep changing).
    They have also not lead by example - Dominic Cummings etc
    The rules also need to be clear. They are not. If Cabinet ministers up to and including the Prime Minister himself do not understand the rules that they have imposed, what hope is there for masked social distancing on the Clapham omnibus?
    Schools it’s as clear as mud as well. Some sources say if there’s a case the whole bubble should isolate, others that it’s only if there are two cases in a fortnight, others still that it’s only students within two metres.

    Whole thing is a farce. Surely the whole point of this bubbles bullshit is to send them home if there’s an infection without affecting the others? If not, what’s the point of it?
  • Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I would assume/hope that Sunak will walk from Cabinet before supporting a six month lockdown. He can rally the resistance from the back benches.
    There's a morbid fascination in working out how bad it would have to get: for the UK to default. The ability to print our own money makes a default very unlikely - but not, I think, impossible

    A 25% drop in GDP and a debt-to-GDP of 200%? I am not an economist. Maybe some expert out there can give us the odds
    It is an interesting question.

    Japanese (gross) debt-to-GDP is 214% and their long bond interest rate is 0.04% so I think even at those levels we'd have some way to go.

    It is far likelier that, rather than an outright default, the government would default by inflation. Look for a relaxation of the Bank of England's inflation target from 2% to 4-5% for example. A 5% inflation rate reduces the debt by half in 15 years. In theory, the exchange rate would slump, but in practice, as all our trading partners face similar problems, that may not happen.
    Looking at the Whole of Government Accounts the official debt there includes public sector pension liabilities and contingent liabilities for nuclear decomissioning and medical claims .It becomes quite steep then!

    I agree that inflation is likely soon and best to avoid low fixed rate bonds imo
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,146

    .

    Nigelb said:

    This is a pretty good thread for thinking about policy responses to Covid.

    https://twitter.com/NAChristakis/status/1315286236907667456

    There have only been two thousand Covid deaths in Switzerland, so we should definitely use these Swiss cheese masks.
    The findings look elemmentalary to me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169
    Alistair said:

    The most important slide you'll see all day. Ask your MP to take a good look at it and then get into the chamber tomorrow and start asking some bloody hard questions of this administration.

    https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1315301410255310849/photo/2

    For some reason he's left off the 4 months between the publication of that story and the start of his line graph.
    This is one of the reasons that I try and include a from-the-start graph in my posts - cut off points are a classic cherry pick in data.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,028
    edited October 2020
    dixidean said:


    No. I think you are on to something. He's more of an acquaintance round the village, but is always entertaining company as he is well informed and very opinionated.
    He seems utterly oblivious to the idea anyone may not agree with his less than consistent philosophy.

    Yes, one of my best friends at school was like that. And still is. Except he doesn't live in a village.

    In many years of knowing him, he has never had a moderate opinion on anything. Everything is always black or white. And yesterday's black can become today's white easily enough if he forgets what he said.

    And he won the world debating championship at one point. Arguing with him is like facing a battering ram.
  • UK Deaths

    image
    image
    image

    We should start publishing effects of lockdown like missed education days etc .Then we may make more balanced decisions on covid-19
  • 12,872 new cases.

    Incoming twattish journos with cases down x% (or do they only do that when it is a daily increase).

    For a weekend that is dreadful.
  • There are two issues.

    Rules are too complicated.

    Government ministers and others don't follow the rules.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,146

    UK Deaths

    image
    image
    image

    We should start publishing effects of lockdown like missed education days etc .Then we may make more balanced decisions on covid-19
    What are you on about ? There's barely any missed education days (Except when students have had a close covid contact or have the disease themselves). Schools have now been prioritised to stay open and rightly so.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    In terms of early voting in a normal election year the Dems historically have a small lead going into election day. This time they’re likely to have a massive lead .

    This needs to be factored into polling especially in swing states where you’re now going to have many more solid votes counted than in previous election cycles .

    For Trump that means he needs an even bigger turnaround in voting intention of those that haven’t voted yet than would normally be the case .
  • Can't have a national lockdown if every region is locked down

    Taps head
  • So in good news for Johnson, 38% think Brexit will be a good idea in the long term
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,809
    edited October 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    UK Deaths

    image
    image
    image

    We should start publishing effects of lockdown like missed education days etc .Then we may make more balanced decisions on covid-19
    What are you on about ? There's barely any missed education days (Except when students have had a close covid contact or have the disease themselves). Schools have now been prioritised to stay open and rightly so.
    Maybe 1 in a 100 ? a bit like covid-19 cases ratio then? Why the bile about publishing effects of lockdown? More stats gives better decisions - both ways
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,970

    Can't have a national lockdown if every region is locked down

    Taps head

    https://twitter.com/BareReality/status/1306897564885831680
  • F1: post-race ramble:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/10/germany-post-race-analysis-2020.html

    I was wrong about Hulkenberg and points, but also about how many cars would end up retiring. Verstappen bet ended up mildly profitable, but that's fine.

    You could save a lot of time by accepting that Lewis Hamilton always wins. Did you not earlier in the season put the pb massive onto backing Hamilton to break Schumacher's record? It must be close now. There was also a SPotY tip from someone I think.
    Actually it might have been Ronnie O'Sullivan for SPotY.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,395
    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    What drivel . 38% v 34% and 28% didn’t know . So how can that been seen as the public thinking Brexit will be good in the long term when you can’t even get over 50% .
  • https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1315269891927277568

    You can say whatever you want, as long as Piers agrees with it
  • dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Karma for having a county cricket team that doesn't produce their own players but nicks players from other counties.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,747
    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Two major universities.
  • What is to stop a pub being a restaurant?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,086
    By the way, the polls in the Tweet at the top are rather old.
  • So in good news for Johnson, 38% think Brexit will be a good idea in the long term

    Yes disruption from Brexit is short-term, the benefits will be long-term.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,086
    nico679 said:

    In terms of early voting in a normal election year the Dems historically have a small lead going into election day. This time they’re likely to have a massive lead .

    This needs to be factored into polling especially in swing states where you’re now going to have many more solid votes counted than in previous election cycles .

    For Trump that means he needs an even bigger turnaround in voting intention of those that haven’t voted yet than would normally be the case .

    The most dedicated supporters are the earliest voters.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,747
    Knowsley is the weird one, obviously it's close to Liverpool University but it's not massively so and Liverpool already has loads of cases.
  • MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Two major universities.
    One major university and one major poly.
  • rcs1000 said:

    By the way, the polls in the Tweet at the top are rather old.

    Less than a week old.
  • rcs1000 said:

    By the way, the polls in the Tweet at the top are rather old.

    Less than a week old.
    Which is a lifetime in 2020 politics.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    What is to stop a pub being a restaurant?
    What is to stop the people of Liverpool either rioting, or hanging themselves? SIX MONTHS
  • So in good news for Johnson, 38% think Brexit will be a good idea in the long term

    Yes disruption from Brexit is short-term, the benefits will be long-term.
    Can you name anything tangible yet?
  • MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Two major universities.
    One major university and one major poly.
    Well no, they're both Universities, no need for snobbery
  • What is to stop a pub being a restaurant?
    It has to serve warm food IIRC.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,664
    LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    Why the hell are they saying now that it could be six months? I thought they have a team of behaviour specialists involved or have they all resigned in disgust?
  • LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    Why the hell are they saying now that it could be six months? I thought they have a team of behaviour specialists involved or have they all resigned in disgust?
    Because they think it could follow a similar pattern to the annual flu outbreak.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,824
    edited October 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    What is wrong with people, since when were shops closing or is it they think they won’t be able to go to the Trafford Centre?
    They expect lockdown 2 to last six months and all the non essential shops to close.

    Manchester is plague central at the moment with the two unis.
    How to completely wipe out an economy.
    Indeed. If big cities like Manc really do get a 6 month total lockdown then the UK will go bust
    I doubt it because people simply wouldn't obey.
    In a country like South Korea the government can issue orders and 99.9% of the population will do what they're told. Even though it's officially a liberal democracy it's still quite authoritarian beneath the surface.
    Yes. People will comply with rules they don't like if a) there are stiff punishments AND b) they think they're likely to be caught. Our government has been excellent at announcing stiff punishments, but our police have not seriously enforced them as far as I can tell so it's been a bit of a farce. No wonder a poll said only 18% of people have followed the rules.

    (Also the rules keep changing).
    They have also not lead by example - Dominic Cummings etc
    The rules also need to be clear. They are not. If Cabinet ministers up to and including the Prime Minister himself do not understand the rules that they have imposed, what hope is there for masked social distancing on the Clapham omnibus?
    Schools it’s as clear as mud as well. Some sources say if there’s a case the whole bubble should isolate, others that it’s only if there are two cases in a fortnight, others still that it’s only students within two metres.

    Whole thing is a farce. Surely the whole point of this bubbles bullshit is to send them home if there’s an infection without affecting the others? If not, what’s the point of it?
    Eton seems to have sent a whole year home.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/10/eton-parents-accuse-school-spreading-virus-round-country-pupils/

    Hmm. Thinking about it, that makes no sense. Surely Eton pupils live in separate houses so there should be house-based bubbles, not yeargroup bubbles. Maybe keep an eye on the corrections column.
  • https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1315269891927277568

    You can say whatever you want, as long as Piers agrees with it

    Piers Morgan is calling for less snarling?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,664
    LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    Yep. The harrying of the north has started in earnest.

  • MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Two major universities.
    One major university and one major poly.
    Well no, they're both Universities, no need for snobbery
    Nottingham Trent is a great university - Even forgiven them for turning me down for a job a few years ago
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    Why the hell are they saying now that it could be six months? I thought they have a team of behaviour specialists involved or have they all resigned in disgust?
    Because they are being honest, maybe, but in this case they should have lied, like Sturgeon, and pretended it was just a fortnight then a review
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,020

    LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    Why the hell are they saying now that it could be six months? I thought they have a team of behaviour specialists involved or have they all resigned in disgust?
    Presumably because they are regularly criticised for having no plan but whackamole (which may well be true), and a six months reviewed every month at least sounds like a long term, stable plan, whilst actually still being flexible. Also, as in the first lockdown they warned people it might last months to mentally prepare people (though I expect it will go down less well this time).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,747
    LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    It's such a huge overreaction given that the cases are student related.
  • Is there any more info on London's cases in terms of being from elsewhere
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,395
    MaxPB said:

    Knowsley is the weird one, obviously it's close to Liverpool University but it's not massively so and Liverpool already has loads of cases.

    Word is there isn't much infection at all in the Liverpool Unis.
    Which is why the figures there are worse than the raw numbers might suggest.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    What is to stop a pub being a restaurant?
    It has to serve warm food IIRC.
    So people who want to socialise and drink will go to restaurants. Which means, logically, that they will have to stop restaurants serving booze? As Sturgeon did in Glasgow.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,664
    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    And all in the postcodes that are mainly students. Some of the post codes have virtually no one else.

    Crazy to shut a whole city and crater its economy for that.

  • dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    Knowsley is the weird one, obviously it's close to Liverpool University but it's not massively so and Liverpool already has loads of cases.

    Word is there isn't much infection at all in the Liverpool Unis.
    Which is why the figures there are worse than the raw numbers might suggest.
    So young people aren't entirely to blame? I am shocked
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,169
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    Why the hell are they saying now that it could be six months? I thought they have a team of behaviour specialists involved or have they all resigned in disgust?
    Because they are being honest, maybe, but in this case they should have lied, like Sturgeon, and pretended it was just a fortnight then a review
    No wonder there are rows about the coming lockdowns.

    If so, this answers the question on where Boris is at on the lockdown-open-up spectrum.... Way down the lock down end of that....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,925

    LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    Why the hell are they saying now that it could be six months? I thought they have a team of behaviour specialists involved or have they all resigned in disgust?
    Because they think it could follow a similar pattern to the annual flu outbreak.
    You'd hope that the massive intervention would have some effect to suppress the numbers, as achieved earlier in the year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,346

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Two major universities.
    One major university and one major poly.
    Bit harsh. Nottingham University has several quite good departments.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,395
    LadyG said:

    What is to stop a pub being a restaurant?
    What is to stop the people of Liverpool either rioting, or hanging themselves? SIX MONTHS
    Football. It's prevented both for decades.
  • MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Two major universities.
    One major university and one major poly.
    Well no, they're both Universities, no need for snobbery
    image
  • Closing pubs but not restaurants has not been thought through at all.

    Just close the entire hospitality industry and support it with Government money. That would be far more sensible.
  • nico679 said:

    What drivel . 38% v 34% and 28% didn’t know . So how can that been seen as the public thinking Brexit will be good in the long term when you can’t even get over 50% .
    It is not drivel.

    It is a poll that gives the first indication that the public think it may be good
  • MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    Fucking hell. That's the death of a city right there.
    It's such a huge overreaction given that the cases are student related.
    Yes decisions made by people who are protected from the front line economic collapse it will bring to places like Liverpool and Nottingham. Both councils stuffed with public sector staff , thinking they wlll be no worse off.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited October 2020

    MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Two major universities.
    One major university and one major poly.
    You're still living in the nineties.
  • MaxPB said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blimey Nottingham. Come from nowhere to hit the front in England.

    Two major universities.
    One major university and one major poly.
    Well no, they're both Universities, no need for snobbery
    image
    Strange way to refer to yourself
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,747
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    Knowsley is the weird one, obviously it's close to Liverpool University but it's not massively so and Liverpool already has loads of cases.

    Word is there isn't much infection at all in the Liverpool Unis.
    Which is why the figures there are worse than the raw numbers might suggest.
    Given that the rise in cases started after the start of term I find that hard to believe.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,664

    Closing pubs but not restaurants has not been thought through at all.

    Just close the entire hospitality industry and support it with Government money. That would be far more sensible.

    Sensible? You are having a laugh with the way this lot and their advisors have managed this crisis.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,925

    Is there any more info on London's cases in terms of being from elsewhere

    I'm not sure if that's known for any region to be honest.
  • Closing pubs but not restaurants has not been thought through at all.

    Just close the entire hospitality industry and support it with Government money. That would be far more sensible.

    Sensible? You are having a laugh with the way this lot and their advisors have managed this crisis.
    Should just get me in, I'd sort it out
This discussion has been closed.