Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
But what has that got to do with @dixiedean ‘s comment?
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
Nor is it small Northern towns. Tories been talking as if everywhere North of Sheffield voted blue.
Why? Is January when we will see the Starmer/ Johnson crossover?
Clearly the economic consequences of Sturgeon's actions will have devastated the Scottish hospitality industry by then, hence the protests yesterday
It will be as bad here in Wales. Paul Davies taking the Senedd in May?
Well a Unionist majority at Holyrood and a Tory majority in Cardiff would be a dream result certainly
The latter wouldn't be for me! Can you imagine Andrew RT Davies' smug face on BBC Wales 24/7!
I have been in the car with RT a great guy and certainly
It is quite remarkable how the narrative has changed over the last week to failures in Scotland, in Wales, in London, Starmer's failure to get a grip on the pandemic, the loss of control by Northern Labour Mayors and the relative satisfaction with Johnson from Red Wall voters.
Somehow, even in Johnson's own party, Sunak is losing his lustre, and Hancock is being blamed for Dido. Johnson is indeed the Teflon Prime Minister. Chaos all around yet he remains blame free. The world has gone mad, or the PB world has at any rate.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
But what has that got to do with @dixiedean ‘s comment?
The mayors of Manchester and Liverpool might not have support in other places.
Especially if those other places blame restrictions placed upon them on the increase in infections in cities.
Why? Is January when we will see the Starmer/ Johnson crossover?
Clearly the economic consequences of Sturgeon's actions will have devastated the Scottish hospitality industry by then, hence the protests yesterday
It will be as bad here in Wales. Paul Davies taking the Senedd in May?
Well a Unionist majority at Holyrood and a Tory majority in Cardiff would be a dream result certainly
The latter wouldn't be for me! Can you imagine Andrew RT Davies' smug face on BBC Wales 24/7!
I have been in the car with RT a great guy and certainly would be a delight to see his celebrations and the misery on the faces of Welsh Labour and Plaid after a Welsh Tory majority
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Off the top of my head I know that Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, and Heywood & Middleton are all in Greater Manchester, and all have Andy Burnham as mayor.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
Nor is it small Northern towns. Tories been talking as if everywhere North of Sheffield voted blue.
Its a large and varied region and no single person understands it all let alone speaks for everyone.
While some outsiders (of all types) think they know about it from a fleeting visit years ago.
A good poll for Labour considering Corbyn had virtually wrecked it as a viable party as recently as last December
18 months ago to the day Lab under Corbyn were 9 pts ahead. 40/31
Then Lab changed to a Europhile 2nd referendum stance and were anihalated in the red wall BREXIT seats
Smoke and mirrors BJO. Eurosceptic Corbyn Labour would still have lost the Red Wall to Johnson. It was more than just Brexit. Labour were blamed for decades of decay and Johnson promised them the earth. In contrast Corbyn promised them the USSR. In time Red Wallers will be disappointed.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Off the top of my head I know that Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, and Heywood & Middleton are all in Greater Manchester, and all have Andy Burnham as mayor.
Perhaps Andy Burnham can explain what he's done to improve things this year then.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Off the top of my head I know that Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, and Heywood & Middleton are all in Greater Manchester, and all have Andy Burnham as mayor.
Perhaps Andy Burnham can explain what he's done to improve things this year then.
What's that got to do with your lack of knowledge of Northern geography?
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Off the top of my head I know that Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, and Heywood & Middleton are all in Greater Manchester, and all have Andy Burnham as mayor.
Perhaps Andy Burnham can explain what he's done to improve things this year then.
What's that got to do with your lack of knowledge of Northern geography?
Why do you think I don't know where those places are ?
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
But what has that got to do with @dixiedean ‘s comment?
The mayors of Manchester and Liverpool might not have support in other places.
Especially if those other places blame restrictions placed upon them on the increase in infections in cities.
Blyth Valley, Hexham, and Berwick upon Tweed are Tory seats with a Labour city region mayor who’s been saying the exact same thing as the mayors of GM and LCR.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Off the top of my head I know that Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, and Heywood & Middleton are all in Greater Manchester, and all have Andy Burnham as mayor.
Perhaps Andy Burnham can explain what he's done to improve things this year then.
What's that got to do with your lack of knowledge of Northern geography?
Why do you think I don't know where those places are ?
If you look you'll see I grouped them by county.
I'm sure you do, but you stated above that the "The North is not the same as the Northern cities" in response to a comment about Nothern Mayors.
As far as I can see, at least three of those Northern mayors represent quite a lot of red wall towns - they aren't representing just the cities, and in many cases the dividing lines between cities and red wall towns is far from clear cut.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
Nor is it small Northern towns. Tories been talking as if everywhere North of Sheffield voted blue.
Its a large and varied region and no single person understands it all let alone speaks for everyone.
While some outsiders (of all types) think they know about it from a fleeting visit years ago.
The North is actually the most politically heterogeneous of all the broad regions. As a Northerner I resent the idea that everyone up here is a Johnson fan. It is as utterly ludicrous as the idea that we all voted Labour in the first place. Rural North and East Yorkshire have been as Blue as Surrey for decades. I live in a profoundly Tory seat. Has been for donkeys years. And it is one of the few that has swung a bit to Labour since 2015. So varied yea.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
But what has that got to do with @dixiedean ‘s comment?
The mayors of Manchester and Liverpool might not have support in other places.
Especially if those other places blame restrictions placed upon them on the increase in infections in cities.
Blyth Valley, Hexham, and Berwick upon Tweed are Tory seats with a Labour city region mayor who’s been saying the exact same thing as the mayors of GM and LCR.
They're also in Northumberland council whose Conservative leader has been saying rural areas should not have the same restrictions imposed on them.
The most notable change in Arcgis covid map today is how much the light blue has filled out in Southern England in the last 24-48 hours.
Put simply, the weather has now turned in the south as well. Further SW and into East Anglia lag a little more, but it's coming and fast.
With northern lockdowns and southern accelatation, I expect some convergence of trajectories - as March showed we do not have the natural barriers to countrywide spread of many other nations.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Off the top of my head I know that Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, and Heywood & Middleton are all in Greater Manchester, and all have Andy Burnham as mayor.
Perhaps Andy Burnham can explain what he's done to improve things this year then.
What's that got to do with your lack of knowledge of Northern geography?
Why do you think I don't know where those places are ?
If you look you'll see I grouped them by county.
I'm sure you do, but you stated above that the "The North is not the same as the Northern cities" in response to a comment about Nothern Mayors.
As far as I can see, at least three of those Northern mayors represent quite a lot of red wall towns - they aren't representing just the cities, and in many cases the dividing lines between cities and red wall towns is far from clear cut.
There's a wider discussion here about how much the City Region mayors actually represent the core city and how much the rest of the 'region' and how much the City Region mayors are duplicating the leadership of the core city.
Now I can't speak for other areas - as I said the North is a large and varied place - but I've never met anyway who gives a toss about Dan Jarvis being mayor of 'Sheffield City Region' whereas the local councils are regarded as important (its where the council tax goes and the local services come from after all). Given that Dan Jarvis has continued to be a MP it seems doubtful that he things being mayor of 'Sheffield City Region' is of much importance either.
The most notable change in Arcgis covid map today is how much the light blue has filled out in Southern England in the last 24-48 hours.
Put simply, the weather has now turned in the south as well. Further SW and into East Anglia lag a little more, but it's coming and fast.
With northern lockdowns and southern accelatation, I expect some convergence of trajectories - as March showed we do not have the natural barriers to countrywide spread of many other nations.
The most notable change in Arcgis covid map today is how much the light blue has filled out in Southern England in the last 24-48 hours.
Put simply, the weather has now turned in the south as well. Further SW and into East Anglia lag a little more, but it's coming and fast.
With northern lockdowns and southern accelatation, I expect some convergence of trajectories - as March showed we do not have the natural barriers to countrywide spread of many other nations.
The colours really need updating.
Having the darkest at 40+ is now out of date.
Still just about makes sense in that only small areas are showing dark blue, but a 100+ level would be useful.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Calder Valley was not a gain - having been Tory -held since 2010.
Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.
If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
Abstain and complain.
And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever. Shows they aren't the London Party. And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
The North is not the same as northern cities.
Labour ** made that mistake last year.
** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
What point are you making?
Last autumn there were more than a few comments here along the lines of "I know the North and the Conservatives are not going to be making gains there" to which I sometimes responded "The North is a large and varied place".
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Calder Valley was not a gain - having been Tory -held since 2010.
I think the declaration is mince, but Google shouldn't be shadowbanning it in the search, in a similiar vein the decision to prosecute Darren Grimes is insidious.
I think the declaration is mince, but Google shouldn't be shadowbanning it in the search, in a similiar vein the decision to prosecute Darren Grimes is insidious.
Welcome to the new world, where someone at google, facebook or twitter decides what you should and shouldn't read.
I think the declaration is mince, but Google shouldn't be shadowbanning it in the search, in a similiar vein the decision to prosecute Darren Grimes is insidious.
Welcome to the new world, where someone at google, facebook or twitter decides what you should and shouldn't read.
I think the declaration is mince, but Google shouldn't be shadowbanning it in the search, in a similiar vein the decision to prosecute Darren Grimes is insidious.
Welcome to the new world, where someone at google, facebook or twitter decides what you should and shouldn't read.
This is a war, a medical one. Did we ask Parliaments permission to fight El Alemain?
Actually there were two confidence votes on the government's direction of the war in 1942. As the Prime Minister said:
Sir, in no country in the world at the present time could a Government conducting a war be exposed to such a stress. No dictator country fighting for its life would dare allow such a discussion. They do not even allow the free transmission of news to their peoples, or even the reception of foreign broadcasts, to which we are all now so hardily inured. Even in the great democracy of the United States the Executive does not stand in the same direct, immediate, day-to-day relation to the Legislative body as we do. The President, in many vital respects independent of the Legislature, Commander-in-Chief of all the Forces of the Republic, has a fixed term of office, during which his authority can scarcely be impugned. But here in this country the House of Commons is master all the time of the life of the Administration. Against its decisions there is only one appeal, the appeal to the nation, an appeal it is very difficult to make under the conditions of a war like this, with a register like this, with air raids and invasion always hanging over us. http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1942/jan/29/motion-of-confidence-in-his-majestys#S5CV0377P0_19420129_HOC_283
The government won both votes. In 1940, the vote on the Norway Debate had led directly to the fall of the government and to a new Prime Minister (the second of the three PMs we had during the war).
No one really knows what’s going on, but there is some evidence for lower viral loads in hospitalised patients, and the suggestion that this might be thanks to mask wearing. ... One idea that has generated a lot of discussion recently, bolstered by two back-to-back studies — El Zein’s and another from Italy, presented in late September to the European Society of Clinical Microbiology and Infectious Diseases — is that social distancing and masks are reducing the dose of virus people are receiving, resulting in less-severe illness. As El Zein and other doctors in Detroit probed why their patients appeared to be less ill, they were startled to find that one indicator in particular changed dramatically over time: viral load. Among 708 patients treated by early summer, the average viral load — a measure of the particles of virus in the body as measured by nasal swabs — fell almost on a weekly basis. In most infectious diseases, including Ebola, HIV/AIDS and hepatitis, the higher the load, the worse the outcome. El Zein saw glimmers of hope in the findings: Could it be that the steps being taken to mitigate the coronavirus’s effects were showing success?...
I will probably vote Labour next time, but for the life of me can someone please unravel the apparent double talk that eminates from the Labour politicians in the north, one minute the government is doing it all wrong, next it's only the financial support that's the issue, then the main problem area is not bars and pubs, then another says it is bars and pubs. For goodness sake let's get on with the restrictions, I live in a sort of borderline area between those that are failrly clear and others that are pretty bad, and where the growtrh last week was three fold. It is gradually coming south and within a fortnight expect to see most of the southern counties between London and ingham in trouble.WE need to stop wittering and just get on with it.
I will probably vote Labour next time, but for the life of me can someone please unravel the apparent double talk that eminates from the Labour politicians in the north, one minute the government is doing it all wrong, next it's only the financial support that's the issue, then the main problem area is not bars and pubs, then another says it is bars and pubs. For goodness sake let's get on with the restrictions, I live in a sort of borderline area between those that are failrly clear and others that are pretty bad, and where the growtrh last week was three fold. It is gradually coming south and within a fortnight expect to see most of the southern counties between London and ingham in trouble.WE need to stop wittering and just get on with it.
In politics its usually easier to complain than be constructive.
That's especially true when there are no easy answers.
Comments
Take a look at where the Conservatives made Northern gains last year:
Blyth Valley, Durham NW, Bishop Auckland, Darlington, Sedgefield, Stockton S, Redcar, Workington, Barrow, Blackpool S, Burnley, Hyndburn, Leigh, Bolton NW, Bury N, Bury S, Heywood & Middleton, Crewe, Warrington S, Calder Valley, Dewsbury, Keighley, Wakefield, Don Valley, Rother Valley, Penistone & Stocksbridge, Grimsby, Scunthorpe.
Notice that Manchester and Liverpool do not feature.
Crooked Hillary, Lying Ted... back in 2016 Trump defined people.
Sleepy Joe is... umm... OK. But it also doesn't look so bad to many people.
Somehow, even in Johnson's own party, Sunak is losing his lustre, and Hancock is being blamed for Dido. Johnson is indeed the Teflon Prime Minister. Chaos all around yet he remains blame free. The world has gone mad, or the PB world has at any rate.
Especially if those other places blame restrictions placed upon them on the increase in infections in cities.
The polls remain very solid for the Conservatives today- but this time next year?
Then Lab changed to a Europhile 2nd referendum stance and were anihalated in the red wall BREXIT seats
While some outsiders (of all types) think they know about it from a fleeting visit years ago.
If you look you'll see I grouped them by county.
As far as I can see, at least three of those Northern mayors represent quite a lot of red wall towns - they aren't representing just the cities, and in many cases the dividing lines between cities and red wall towns is far from clear cut.
All politics is local etc
Put simply, the weather has now turned in the south as well. Further SW and into East Anglia lag a little more, but it's coming and fast.
With northern lockdowns and southern accelatation, I expect some convergence of trajectories - as March showed we do not have the natural barriers to countrywide spread of many other nations.
Now I can't speak for other areas - as I said the North is a large and varied place - but I've never met anyway who gives a toss about Dan Jarvis being mayor of 'Sheffield City Region' whereas the local councils are regarded as important (its where the council tax goes and the local services come from after all). Given that Dan Jarvis has continued to be a MP it seems doubtful that he things being mayor of 'Sheffield City Region' is of much importance either.
Having the darkest at 40+ is now out of date.
Not the actual positive cases but the equivalent of the 100k estimated cases the UK had ?
Biden 52.8%
Trump 46.5%
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/pennsylvania/
Sir, in no country in the world at the present time could a Government conducting a war be exposed to such a stress. No dictator country fighting for its life would dare allow such a discussion. They do not even allow the free transmission of news to their peoples, or even the reception of foreign broadcasts, to which we are all now so hardily inured. Even in the great democracy of the United States the Executive does not stand in the same direct, immediate, day-to-day relation to the Legislative body as we do. The President, in many vital respects independent of the Legislature, Commander-in-Chief of all the Forces of the Republic, has a fixed term of office, during which his authority can scarcely be impugned. But here in this country the House of Commons is master all the time of the life of the Administration. Against its decisions there is only one appeal, the appeal to the nation, an appeal it is very difficult to make under the conditions of a war like this, with a register like this, with air raids and invasion always hanging over us.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1942/jan/29/motion-of-confidence-in-his-majestys#S5CV0377P0_19420129_HOC_283
The government won both votes. In 1940, the vote on the Norway Debate had led directly to the fall of the government and to a new Prime Minister (the second of the three PMs we had during the war).
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/10/lindsey-graham-black-people-anywhere-south-carolina-conservative.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/10/09/covid-mortality-rate-down/
No one really knows what’s going on, but there is some evidence for lower viral loads in hospitalised patients, and the suggestion that this might be thanks to mask wearing.
... One idea that has generated a lot of discussion recently, bolstered by two back-to-back studies — El Zein’s and another from Italy, presented in late September to the European Society of Clinical Microbiology and Infectious Diseases — is that social distancing and masks are reducing the dose of virus people are receiving, resulting in less-severe illness.
As El Zein and other doctors in Detroit probed why their patients appeared to be less ill, they were startled to find that one indicator in particular changed dramatically over time: viral load.
Among 708 patients treated by early summer, the average viral load — a measure of the particles of virus in the body as measured by nasal swabs — fell almost on a weekly basis. In most infectious diseases, including Ebola, HIV/AIDS and hepatitis, the higher the load, the worse the outcome.
El Zein saw glimmers of hope in the findings: Could it be that the steps being taken to mitigate the coronavirus’s effects were showing success?...
That's especially true when there are no easy answers.