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Hollow Men – the sidelining of parliament during the biggest health/economic crisis in modern times

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  • Options
    RobD said:

    I care for the people of europe paying for someone's fantasy
    If Europe want to do that, that's their problem, your concern is very odd
    Not at all.

    It is no different than my care for the peoples of America under Trump

    I am not an isolationist, indeed I voted remain
    I don't think you did to be honest but either way.

    We've left, it's the EU's problem now, not ours.
    Why exactly is the scientific exploration of the moon a problem? Because it's not for free?

    Is it a problem for NASA, too? They are, after all, providing the Orion vehicle to shuttle personnel from the lunar orbiter to the moon surface. Is it a problem for the Canadian and Japanese space agencies which are taking part in the fun?

    What will Buccaneering Blighty do? Will it want to participate and waste mountains of money for a useless vanity project, without total control of the rules and stuff? Or will it heckle from the sidelines.
    Well, for starters, this is ESA which has nothing to do with the EU. So British taxpayers will be on the hook.
    It is correct to say that ESA has not yet been made an EU agency, but if ESA has nothing at all to do with the EU, why is the EU making such a large contribution to the ESA budget?
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,072
    Has someone mentioned that the European Space Agency isn't part of the EU and the UK, Switzerland and Norway are members?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    I care for the people of europe paying for someone's fantasy
    If Europe want to do that, that's their problem, your concern is very odd
    Not at all.

    It is no different than my care for the peoples of America under Trump

    I am not an isolationist, indeed I voted remain
    I don't think you did to be honest but either way.

    We've left, it's the EU's problem now, not ours.
    Why exactly is the scientific exploration of the moon a problem? Because it's not for free?

    Is it a problem for NASA, too? They are, after all, providing the Orion vehicle to shuttle personnel from the lunar orbiter to the moon surface. Is it a problem for the Canadian and Japanese space agencies which are taking part in the fun?

    What will Buccaneering Blighty do? Will it want to participate and waste mountains of money for a useless vanity project, without total control of the rules and stuff? Or will it heckle from the sidelines.
    Well, for starters, this is ESA which has nothing to do with the EU. So British taxpayers will be on the hook.
    It is correct to say that ESA has not yet been made an EU agency, but if ESA has nothing at all to do with the EU, why is the EU making such a large contribution to the ESA budget?
    Sorry, I should have been more precise and said it wasn't contingent on our EU membership.
  • Options

    Has someone mentioned that the European Space Agency isn't part of the EU and the UK, Switzerland and Norway are members?

    Europe bad, UK good!
  • Options
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I care for the people of europe paying for someone's fantasy
    If Europe want to do that, that's their problem, your concern is very odd
    Not at all.

    It is no different than my care for the peoples of America under Trump

    I am not an isolationist, indeed I voted remain
    I don't think you did to be honest but either way.

    We've left, it's the EU's problem now, not ours.
    Why exactly is the scientific exploration of the moon a problem? Because it's not for free?

    Is it a problem for NASA, too? They are, after all, providing the Orion vehicle to shuttle personnel from the lunar orbiter to the moon surface. Is it a problem for the Canadian and Japanese space agencies which are taking part in the fun?

    What will Buccaneering Blighty do? Will it want to participate and waste mountains of money for a useless vanity project, without total control of the rules and stuff? Or will it heckle from the sidelines.
    Well, for starters, this is ESA which has nothing to do with the EU. So British taxpayers will be on the hook.
    Let's have a referendum on it, you can vote to Leave?
    Why would I do that?
    Well if you're not keen on the idea, we can leave the ESA. We seem to want to leave everything else we're part of, so why not add this next? Better on our own, am I right?
    What gives you the idea I am not keen on the idea? I'm all for big science projects like these.
    This is quite the sort of thing internatonal co-operation should be about. Though with as much private investment as possible, the likes of SpaceX really are starting to open up the heavens.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I care for the people of europe paying for someone's fantasy
    If Europe want to do that, that's their problem, your concern is very odd
    Not at all.

    It is no different than my care for the peoples of America under Trump

    I am not an isolationist, indeed I voted remain
    I don't think you did to be honest but either way.

    We've left, it's the EU's problem now, not ours.
    Why exactly is the scientific exploration of the moon a problem? Because it's not for free?

    Is it a problem for NASA, too? They are, after all, providing the Orion vehicle to shuttle personnel from the lunar orbiter to the moon surface. Is it a problem for the Canadian and Japanese space agencies which are taking part in the fun?

    What will Buccaneering Blighty do? Will it want to participate and waste mountains of money for a useless vanity project, without total control of the rules and stuff? Or will it heckle from the sidelines.
    Well, for starters, this is ESA which has nothing to do with the EU. So British taxpayers will be on the hook.
    Let's have a referendum on it, you can vote to Leave?
    Why would I do that?
    Well if you're not keen on the idea, we can leave the ESA. We seem to want to leave everything else we're part of, so why not add this next? Better on our own, am I right?
    What gives you the idea I am not keen on the idea? I'm all for big science projects like these.
    This is quite the sort of thing internatonal co-operation should be about. Though with as much private investment as possible, the likes of SpaceX really are starting to open up the heavens.
    I look forward to the next discovery from the LHC.. the pepsi neutrino.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,152

    Scott_xP said:
    Matt Hancock needs to be sacked, that joke isn't even funny.

    I mean I've got a joke about Covid-19 but it is really tasteless.
    Can we sack Hancock for something he has seriously done wrong? Like overseen a complete shambles that is Track and No Trace, spending something like £12b.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123

    Scott_xP said:
    Matt Hancock needs to be sacked, that joke isn't even funny.

    I mean I've got a joke about Covid-19 but it is really tasteless.
    Can we sack Hancock for something he has seriously done wrong? Like overseen a complete shambles that is Track and No Trace, spending something like £12b.
    I can’t help feeling sacking him for the inability to tell a good joke is more in keeping with the government ethos.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead
    Not 10 months into a Parliament following an election in which incumbent was re-elected with a big majority. Did not happen post -1959 - 1966 - 1983 - 1987 - 1997 -2001. Starmer is outperforming Gaitskell in 1960 and Kinnock in 1988.
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    theakestheakes Posts: 841
    This is a war, a medical one. Did we ask Parliaments permission to fight El Alemain?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited October 2020
    Not really. It is normal to only move on to the next President after they've won the election (or even been inaugurated) not beforehand.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
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    justin124 said:

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead
    Not 10 months into a Parliament following an election in which incumbent was re-elected with a big majority. Did not happen post -1959 - 1966 - 1983 - 1987 - 1997 -2001. Starmer is outperforming Gaitskell in 1960 and Kinnock in 1988.
    Don't forget Kinnock lost.
  • Options

    justin124 said:

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead
    Not 10 months into a Parliament following an election in which incumbent was re-elected with a big majority. Did not happen post -1959 - 1966 - 1983 - 1987 - 1997 -2001. Starmer is outperforming Gaitskell in 1960 and Kinnock in 1988.
    Don't forget Kinnock lost.
    Perhaps Starmer is not Kinnock but Cameron
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    theakes said:

    This is a war, a medical one. Did we ask Parliaments permission to fight El Alemain?

    Fortunately the virus is not sentient, and does not adapt its defences based on what it hears its adversary is going to do in parliamentary debates.
    It actually kind of is.

    Since the virus spreads via people, and what is said in Parliament (and elsewhere) changes how people act, then yes the virus does respond to it.

    See all the talk of "the last hoorah" drinking in pubs for instance as an example of this.
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Scott_xP said:
    Matt Hancock needs to be sacked, that joke isn't even funny.

    I mean I've got a joke about Covid-19 but it is really tasteless.
    Can we sack Hancock for something he has seriously done wrong? Like overseen a complete shambles that is Track and No Trace, spending something like £12b.
    He really needs to go. Politically inept, incompetent and is totally out of his depth.

    Anyone with any knowledge of D Harding’s track record at TalkTalk would have not even considered her
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,123

    theakes said:

    This is a war, a medical one. Did we ask Parliaments permission to fight El Alemain?

    Fortunately the virus is not sentient, and does not adapt its defences based on what it hears its adversary is going to do in parliamentary debates.
    Are you arguing Hancock is and does? Little evidence of this so far.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Scott_xP said:
    That is worse than Cummings and that is going some
    Good for Labour's prospects in that seat next time.
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That is worse than Cummings and that is going some
    Good for Labour's prospects in that seat next time.
    I would vote Labour in that seat
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    Scott_xP said:
    Biden will only be wooed by dumping the internal markets bill or getting a trade deal with the EU otherwise no matter how much wooing Boris and his ministers do there will still be no US and UK trade deal under a Biden presidency.

    However I would not write off Trump yet either, at this stage in 2016 Hillary was already measuring the curtains for the Oval Office
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Matt Hancock needs to be sacked, that joke isn't even funny.

    I mean I've got a joke about Covid-19 but it is really tasteless.
    Can we sack Hancock for something he has seriously done wrong? Like overseen a complete shambles that is Track and No Trace, spending something like £12b.
    He really needs to go. Politically inept, incompetent and is totally out of his depth.

    Anyone with any knowledge of D Harding’s track record at TalkTalk would have not even considered her
    The NHS app though has worked extremely well, have already scanned my barcode at the cinema, cafes etc
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    I feel like governments forge links with whoever wins regardless - a lot of the 'proof' of overly close links seemed to be diplomatic nicities which others have done to an even greater degree without criticism.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead
    Not 10 months into a Parliament following an election in which incumbent was re-elected with a big majority. Did not happen post -1959 - 1966 - 1983 - 1987 - 1997 -2001. Starmer is outperforming Gaitskell in 1960 and Kinnock in 1988.
    Don't forget Kinnock lost.
    Nothing inevitable about that in 1992. Despite the Sheffield rally and the ousting of Thatcher Labour gained 42 seats compared with 1987.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    Seems like the common thread is coming out of lockdown too early and not having strict enough rules.

    We could have been a New Zealand.

    I think that may be taken it a bit too far, in suggesting there are no differing factors which might impact our situation compared to theirs other than lockdown policy. It may well be part of it, but with very different countries I think it is possible to ignore other contributory factors if only focusing on one element.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    Probably a more important story than the Trump one:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1315040570298044421?s=20
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited October 2020
    kle4 said:

    Seems like the common thread is coming out of lockdown too early and not having strict enough rules.

    We could have been a New Zealand.

    I think that may be taken it a bit too far, in suggesting there are no differing factors which might impact our situation compared to theirs other than lockdown policy. It may well be part of it, but with very different countries I think it is possible to ignore other contributory factors if only focusing on one element.
    New Zealand is also heading for recession, Germany and S Korea are better models than New Zealand
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    edited October 2020

    UK cases

    A depressingly red image
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Matt Hancock needs to be sacked, that joke isn't even funny.

    I mean I've got a joke about Covid-19 but it is really tasteless.
    Can we sack Hancock for something he has seriously done wrong? Like overseen a complete shambles that is Track and No Trace, spending something like £12b.
    He really needs to go. Politically inept, incompetent and is totally out of his depth.

    Anyone with any knowledge of D Harding’s track record at TalkTalk would have not even considered her
    The NHS app though has worked extremely well, have already scanned my barcode at the cinema, cafes etc
    It may do but, as someone who is overall responsible for the Health S
    It’s a weird thing to say. A fair few replies to that Tweet make the point it’s the sort of conspiracy theory Trump might make but why is Biden making it.

    The actions of the Democrats over the past few days have been odd. Nancy P bringing up the 25th and the drugs approval issue and now this statement from Biden
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    https/twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1315031643564978178/photo/1


    Calling IDS and Graham Brady!!! Time to get House of Commons debating all this. As per @Cyclefree

    I'm sure there are the votes for the measures, or something close to it, I really don't get why the debate scares the government so much. May was the same over A50.
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    kle4 said:

    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.

    I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.

    If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011

    Probably a more important story than the Trump one:

    Avocados?
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead
    Not 10 months into a Parliament following an election in which incumbent was re-elected with a big majority. Did not happen post -1959 - 1966 - 1983 - 1987 - 1997 -2001. Starmer is outperforming Gaitskell in 1960 and Kinnock in 1988.
    Don't forget Kinnock lost.
    Nothing inevitable about that in 1992. Despite the Sheffield rally and the ousting of Thatcher Labour gained 42 seats compared with 1987.
    Yeah 1992 was a good election for Labour in the long run, avoided Black Wednesday and they set in place 1997.

    If Starmer does that, he will get a lot of credit from me.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead
    Not 10 months into a Parliament following an election in which incumbent was re-elected with a big majority. Did not happen post -1959 - 1966 - 1983 - 1987 - 1997 -2001. Starmer is outperforming Gaitskell in 1960 and Kinnock in 1988.
    Don't forget Kinnock lost.
    Nothing inevitable about that in 1992. Despite the Sheffield rally and the ousting of Thatcher Labour gained 42 seats compared with 1987.
    Fair point, if Starmer gained 42 Tory seats in 2024 it would be a hung parliament and 323 Tory seats and Boris would need DUP MPs to stay in power
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,280
    edited October 2020
    Now this is is a funny joke, take note Matt Hancock.

    Comedian Nabil Abdulrashid received a flood of new complaints as he returned to the stage for the Britain's Got Talent final.

    This time he upset some fans with a joke about British Prime Minister Winston Churchill.

    Addressing the previous complaints about his act he said:

    "What did I say to offend anybody? You'd think I came out and said something really inflammatory like 'Winston Churchill was black.'"

    He then added: "By the way he was. I can prove it, when was the last time you met a white man called Winston?"

    BGT viewers took to Twitter to complain.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/britains-talent-comedian-nabil-abdulrashid-19085224

    How much of a snowflake do you have to be to triggered by that joke?
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    guybrushguybrush Posts: 236

    Since we're talking about ESA, I'll just casually drop in the fact that I presented a mission study at ESOC (European Space Operations Centre) and ESTEC (European Space Technology Centre) that they commissioned and subcontracted to a research team I once worked for. Oh, and I got the mission control tour.

    I doubt anything else I ever do in my career will get close to that

    Nice. I spent some time at ESTEC as a student, very cool place, had the tour of the assembly bay where they had a few things that launched. Kind of wish I went into that area now, way more interesting than where I ended up.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,708

    kle4 said:

    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.

    I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.

    If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
    Spot on
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,215
    Scott_xP said:
    We already know foreign affairs was never the clown’s strong suit.
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    kle4 said:

    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.

    I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.

    If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
    Abstain and complain.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    edited October 2020

    IshmaelZ said:

    Disgusting.

    This is how they treat the only non white member of the Royal family, no wonder Meghan and Harry left the nasty family.

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1314994091676119040

    It seems possible she is objectionable in her own right, of course. Harry clearly wants to be shooting pheasant and drinking beer with his mates and going to army dinners in the UK. Best they just get the divorce in sooner than later, and everyone is happy.
    I think you misunderstimate the power of love.

    The power of love is a curious thing,
    Make a one man weep, make another man sing,
    Change a hawk to a little white dove,
    More than a feeling, that's the power of love.
    But there was this story in the Mail today, which I found interesting..

    https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8825367/amp/Prince-Harry-face-telling-Queen-Palace-staff-told-prepare-return.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA=#aoh=16023182198979&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8825367/Prince-Harry-face-telling-Queen-Palace-staff-told-prepare-return.html

    I think Harry is a bit beyond a telling off. The effective break from the institution following his whining about not getting to do things his way, I should think means he has no incentive to accept a telling off quietly, and if it is reported as a telling off why would he take that?

    Family drama, sure, but that's already on the table with his outspokenness, it's no bar.

    He should have been an early royal, some of them got some rough treatment - I've been reading about the Prussians, and Frederick William I locked his son up and, among other things, forced him to watch the execution of his best friend, for his defiance.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    Since we're talking about ESA, I'll just casually drop in the fact that I presented a mission study at ESOC (European Space Operations Centre) and ESTEC (European Space Technology Centre) that they commissioned and subcontracted to a research team I once worked for. Oh, and I got the mission control tour.

    I doubt anything else I ever do in my career will get close to that

    Very cool. What was the mission concept, if I can ask?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    Now this is is a funny joke, take note Matt Hancock.

    Comedian Nabil Abdulrashid received a flood of new complaints as he returned to the stage for the Britain's Got Talent final.

    This time he upset some fans with a joke about British Prime Minister Winston Churchill.

    Addressing the previous complaints about his act he said:

    "What did I say to offend anybody? You'd think I came out and said something really inflammatory like 'Winston Churchill was black.'"

    He then added: "By the way he was. I can prove it, when was the last time you met a white man called Winston?"

    BGT viewers took to Twitter to complain.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/britains-talent-comedian-nabil-abdulrashid-19085224

    How much of a snowflake do you have to be to triggered by that joke?

    Indeed. Pretty decent gag, I thought.
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    Good night folks
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    kle4 said:

    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.

    I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.

    If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
    Abstain and complain.
    And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead

    Opinium has another tie

    The polls do seem to indicate a slight movement to the Conservatives and away from Labour

    It is quote extraordinary why Labour are not well ahead

    Reading this forum you would think the conservatives are consigned to defeat

    Maybe but far from convincing at present
    Bless, you're reading way too much into sub MOE changes.
    Are you saying labour shouldn't be ahead
    Not 10 months into a Parliament following an election in which incumbent was re-elected with a big majority. Did not happen post -1959 - 1966 - 1983 - 1987 - 1997 -2001. Starmer is outperforming Gaitskell in 1960 and Kinnock in 1988.
    Don't forget Kinnock lost.
    Nothing inevitable about that in 1992. Despite the Sheffield rally and the ousting of Thatcher Labour gained 42 seats compared with 1987.
    Fair point, if Starmer gained 42 Tory seats in 2024 it would be a hung parliament and 323 Tory seats and Boris would need DUP MPs to stay in power
    In reality 323 seats would be enough for Johnson to continue , but I would also expect losses to SNP and LDs which would probably take them below 315. I also believe that Labour gains in 1992 could have ended up between 55 and 60.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    HYUFD said:
    Perhaps I am naiive, but I always sort of figured governments could wrangle a way to prioritise national firms even with the rules to go out EU wide.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    HYUFD said:
    SLAB and SCON are going to be beneficiaries when the national UK situation is no better?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,011
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited October 2020
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    SLAB and SCON are going to be beneficiaries when the national UK situation is no better?
    It only takes the SNP to lose a few seats on 2016 and there is a Unionist majority, plus most of Scotland is now in effective lockdown with all the economic damage that will do by January unlike most of rUK
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    edited October 2020
    guybrush said:

    Since we're talking about ESA, I'll just casually drop in the fact that I presented a mission study at ESOC (European Space Operations Centre) and ESTEC (European Space Technology Centre) that they commissioned and subcontracted to a research team I once worked for. Oh, and I got the mission control tour.

    I doubt anything else I ever do in my career will get close to that

    Nice. I spent some time at ESTEC as a student, very cool place, had the tour of the assembly bay where they had a few things that launched. Kind of wish I went into that area now, way more interesting than where I ended up.
    Ditto. Although where I ended up involves a lot of economic modelling, which right now if nothing else is definitely interesting.
    RobD said:

    Since we're talking about ESA, I'll just casually drop in the fact that I presented a mission study at ESOC (European Space Operations Centre) and ESTEC (European Space Technology Centre) that they commissioned and subcontracted to a research team I once worked for. Oh, and I got the mission control tour.

    I doubt anything else I ever do in my career will get close to that

    Very cool. What was the mission concept, if I can ask?
    It was a conceptual Mars communications relay using ion engines to access specific types of orbit that wouldn't otherwise be conventionally accessible.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,043
    HYUFD said:
    Why? Is January when we will see the Starmer/ Johnson crossover?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    edited October 2020

    Now this is is a funny joke, take note Matt Hancock.

    Comedian Nabil Abdulrashid received a flood of new complaints as he returned to the stage for the Britain's Got Talent final.

    This time he upset some fans with a joke about British Prime Minister Winston Churchill.

    Addressing the previous complaints about his act he said:

    "What did I say to offend anybody? You'd think I came out and said something really inflammatory like 'Winston Churchill was black.'"

    He then added: "By the way he was. I can prove it, when was the last time you met a white man called Winston?"

    BGT viewers took to Twitter to complain.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/britains-talent-comedian-nabil-abdulrashid-19085224

    How much of a snowflake do you have to be to triggered by that joke?

    Being right wing and offended by Muslims, comedians and Churchill not being a saint, and the like, has become so fashionable that it is a reflex for many now. Even when it isn't appropriate.
    Like replying "Whatever" to anything you didn't like was 10 years ago.
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    Tories insist this will be the end of the SNP
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,043
    Not so much a dog-whistle as a hair-breadth away from a call to arms. "I stand with you".

    This might not end well in so many different ways.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    MrEd said:
    No I think they were following you.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    HYUFD said:
    Why? Is January when we will see the Starmer/ Johnson crossover?
    Clearly the economic consequences of Sturgeon's actions will have devastated the Scottish hospitality industry by then, hence the protests yesterday
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.

    I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.

    If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
    Abstain and complain.
    And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
    Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever.
    Shows they aren't the London Party.
    And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Matt Hancock needs to be sacked, that joke isn't even funny.

    I mean I've got a joke about Covid-19 but it is really tasteless.
    Can we sack Hancock for something he has seriously done wrong? Like overseen a complete shambles that is Track and No Trace, spending something like £12b.
    He really needs to go. Politically inept, incompetent and is totally out of his depth.

    Anyone with any knowledge of D Harding’s track record at TalkTalk would have not even considered her
    The NHS app though has worked extremely well, have already scanned my barcode at the cinema, cafes etc
    It may do but, as someone who is overall responsible for the Health S
    It’s a weird thing to say. A fair few replies to that Tweet make the point it’s the sort of conspiracy theory Trump might make but why is Biden making it.

    The actions of the Democrats over the past few days have been odd. Nancy P bringing up the 25th and the drugs approval issue and now this statement from Biden
    Except the isn't a conspiracy theory, the evidence is plain to see. Ironically the very next post to yours provides an excellent example of of Trumps bodies are up to.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336
    They’ve been reading the Mail ?

    Trump's favorite Florida retirement home The Villages hosts a golfcart rally for BIDEN - and criticize the President's COVID response and 'loser' war dead comments
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8825661/A-senior-warning-sign-Trump-Go-Biden-cry-Villages.html
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    edited October 2020
    HYUFD said:
    SNP honeymoons over tomorrow, SNP honeymoons over yesterday - but never
    SNP honeymoons over today.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,336
    Great header, @Cyclefree
    I am in complete agreement.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    HYUFD said:
    SNP honeymoons over tomorrow, SNP honeymoons over yesterday - but never
    SNP honeymoons over today.
    It has to end sometime... surely.. right?

    :)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    SNP honeymoons over tomorrow, SNP honeymoons over yesterday - but never
    SNP honeymoons over today.
    It has to end sometime... surely.. right?

    :)
    Unionist majority May 2021 as good a time as any
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    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.

    I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.

    If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
    Abstain and complain.
    And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
    Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever.
    Shows they aren't the London Party.
    And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
    The North is not the same as northern cities.

    Labour ** made that mistake last year.

    ** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    edited October 2020
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821

    kle4 said:

    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.

    I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.

    If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
    Captain Abstain
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,800
    The Trump presidency reminds me ever more of the armchair fascism satirised in this song. It also helps that some of the best known lines are eerily descriptive of the last week or so.

    Not sure about the video.

    https://youtu.be/5RIlRhXXQjg
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,043
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Why? Is January when we will see the Starmer/ Johnson crossover?
    Clearly the economic consequences of Sturgeon's actions will have devastated the Scottish hospitality industry by then, hence the protests yesterday
    It will be as bad here in Wales. Paul Davies taking the Senedd in May?
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Roger said:

    MrEd said:
    No I think they were following you.
    Doubt it, I’m far too plebeian for them
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Late to the party, but I have been very surprised parliament has not attempted to take a more active role after an initial grace period of ceding authority (via reduced oversight of the executive) during the first stages of the emergency. Particularly given it developed a bit of a taste for pushing boundaries against the executive in the last parliament (admittedly many of the more bold members there are now gone). And particularly when parliament would probably agree, like the public, with much of what the government has done (if disputing the competence of some of it), and would probably not delay outcomes in any appreciable way.

    I think the problem is that Starmer is trying to have it both ways. He wants to say that he agrees with restrictions (if they're popular and working) while disagreeing with things if they're unpopular and not. But he doesn't know which is which until he can see with hindsight.

    If Parliament had to vote first Starmer would need to reach an opinion up front. That's the one thing he doesn't want to have to do.
    Abstain and complain.
    And obtain (No 10. Maybe)
    Yep. I think letting the Northern mayors take the lead is clever.
    Shows they aren't the London Party.
    And that the Tories aren't the Northern Party. Northern Tory Mps and Mayors are reluctant to go on the record.
    The North is not the same as northern cities.

    Labour ** made that mistake last year.

    ** To be fair lots of London based people make that mistake.
    What point are you making?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    Not so much a dog-whistle as a hair-breadth away from a call to arms. "I stand with you".

    This might not end well in so many different ways.
    I note it saying he is 'weak' on socialism rather than that he is a socialist.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Why? Is January when we will see the Starmer/ Johnson crossover?
    Clearly the economic consequences of Sturgeon's actions will have devastated the Scottish hospitality industry by then, hence the protests yesterday
    It will be as bad here in Wales. Paul Davies taking the Senedd in May?
    Well a Unionist majority at Holyrood and a Tory majority in Cardiff would be a dream result certainly
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    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    SNP honeymoons over tomorrow, SNP honeymoons over yesterday - but never
    SNP honeymoons over today.
    It has to end sometime... surely.. right?

    :)
    Maybe when Unionist parties have some coherent policies, capable politicians and a principled postion on Scotland, so...
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    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    SNP honeymoons over tomorrow, SNP honeymoons over yesterday - but never
    SNP honeymoons over today.
    It has to end sometime... surely.. right?

    :)
    Liberal Democratic Party of Japan says hello.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    It is actually Scotland specific and I was looking at the Holyrood constituency seats which largely overlap with the Westminster seats
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,578
    Well he's right that Biden is weak on Socialism. Barely a Social Democrat.

    Meanwhile Bozo only has tomorrow left to figure out what he's going to announce on Monday. What a buffoon he is.

    Night all.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,043
    kle4 said:

    Not so much a dog-whistle as a hair-breadth away from a call to arms. "I stand with you".

    This might not end well in so many different ways.
    I note it saying he is 'weak' on socialism rather than that he is a socialist.
    I am more concerned by the "I stand with you" and "stand back, and stand by" comments.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    HYUFD said:

    It is actually Scotland specific and I was looking at the Holyrood constituency seats which largely overlap with the Westminster seats
    Yeah good luck with that
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,152
    Thanks to all for your comments.

    Night all.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,043
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Why? Is January when we will see the Starmer/ Johnson crossover?
    Clearly the economic consequences of Sturgeon's actions will have devastated the Scottish hospitality industry by then, hence the protests yesterday
    It will be as bad here in Wales. Paul Davies taking the Senedd in May?
    Well a Unionist majority at Holyrood and a Tory majority in Cardiff would be a dream result certainly
    The latter wouldn't be for me! Can you imagine Andrew RT Davies' smug face on BBC Wales 24/7!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    SNP honeymoons over tomorrow, SNP honeymoons over yesterday - but never
    SNP honeymoons over today.
    It has to end sometime... surely.. right?

    :)
    Liberal Democratic Party of Japan says hello.
    Hey, they've been out of power, what, 3.5 years in the last 65, so not a perfect record?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    HYUFD said:

    It is actually Scotland specific and I was looking at the Holyrood constituency seats which largely overlap with the Westminster seats
    Yeah good luck with that
    Yeah good luck trying to get Starmer into government without Scottish MPs
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    edited October 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Why? Is January when we will see the Starmer/ Johnson crossover?
    Clearly the economic consequences of Sturgeon's actions will have devastated the Scottish hospitality industry by then, hence the protests yesterday
    It will be as bad here in Wales. Paul Davies taking the Senedd in May?
    Well a Unionist majority at Holyrood and a Tory majority in Cardiff would be a dream result certainly
    The latter wouldn't be for me! Can you imagine Andrew RT Davies' smug face on BBC Wales 24/7!
    I have been in the car with RT a great guy and certainly would be a delight to see his celebrations and the misery on the faces of Welsh Labour and Plaid after a Welsh Tory majority
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,522
    edited October 2020
    For once I agree with Trump. Biden is indeed weak on socialism. Not a socialist at all, really.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,919
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Perhaps I am naiive, but I always sort of figured governments could wrangle a way to prioritise national firms even with the rules to go out EU wide.
    Yes, one used Regional Development Funds to allow contractors to outbid European competitors.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,940
    Yes. Humans aren't supposed to hear them. Foghorns might be a better term.
This discussion has been closed.