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History Today. A brief recent history of when dead Americans win elections – politicalbetting.com

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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Villa 6 yes six

    Win their game in hand and they go top.

    What odds going into the international break of PL 123 being Everton, Villa, and Leicester, with both Liverpool and Man U conceding six each on the same day?

    Anyone defending anymore?
    Not on goal difference
    Think they would. They’re GD is 9 now v 7 for Everton.

    Either way what a calculation to be making even.
    I think you are confusing points at 9

    Goal difference is Everton 9 Liverpool 0
    No Villa have a game in hand over Everton and a GD of 9 ( as well as 9 points).

    Still if as Foxy says it’s Villa/Leicester and the Merseyside derby What a weekend.
    Sorry. I thought you were talking about Liverpool

    You are correct on Villa and it would be good for football
    Well the Merseyside derby looks odd.

    One team top of the table, maximum points, fabulous stylish S American signings bedded in, goals galore at the right end, a number 9 come of age, the other with sickness in the camp, coming off the worst defeat in years to a team that avoided relegation by a point only a few weeks back.

    Both got dodgy goalie issues mind.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,292
    They're reporting political resistance to the public health recommendation in Ireland. Some reluctance to cancel the GAA inter-County Championship. Could be an influential moment if they set themselves against it.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Good job no one here supports Liverpool ** innocent face*****
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    They're reporting political resistance to the public health recommendation in Ireland. Some reluctance to cancel the GAA inter-County Championship. Could be an influential moment if they set themselves against it.

    Not bloody surprising. It think they're currently at whatever level 3 is, and the advice is to jump back to level 5! And the Govt had zero warning that this was coming.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-nphet-recommends-state-moves-to-level-5-restrictions-for-four-weeks-1.4371810
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    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    I think they mean 77% of Liverpool and MU supporters.
  • Options
    Floater said:

    Good job no one here supports Liverpool ** innocent face*****

    Liverpool were lucky not to concede double figures tonight. Leeds also scored 3 against them and it could easily have been more. Defensively they are a shambles currently.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,197
    LOL 15,000 cases not included in recent numbers - Sky

    Well done Dido
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    Todays results shows why the EPL is the best league in the world.

    Today's results show pisspoor defending in the PL!
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    alex_ said:

    They're reporting political resistance to the public health recommendation in Ireland. Some reluctance to cancel the GAA inter-County Championship. Could be an influential moment if they set themselves against it.

    Not bloody surprising. It think they're currently at whatever level 3 is, and the advice is to jump back to level 5! And the Govt had zero warning that this was coming.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-nphet-recommends-state-moves-to-level-5-restrictions-for-four-weeks-1.4371810
    Why not 4? That seems extreme!
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    RobD said:

    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    See Patel's slightly unhinged conference speech announcing nothing but that she doesn't like lefties today.

    https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1312775610637447168
    Isn't the argument that they've already entered one country illegally, and should be claiming asylum there. The convention doesn't let you go from country to country until you've got to somewhere you like.
    The point is that they're not fleeing war, persecution or famine, they're mostly coming from France - a safe first world country that's a signatory to many international human rights conventions.
    The point is that regardless of whether they are failing to claim asylum at the first opportunity, if they end up in the UK then how they got in is not a legal invalidation of their claim.
    They are no longer covered by the convention.

    . The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their
    illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory
    where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or
    are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present
    themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
    illegal entry or presence.


    Unless their life was threatened in France, of course.
    Isn't that a different issue?

    1) can they be prosecuted (or have measures imposed upon them) for illegal entry to the Country - yes
    2) do they have a right to claim asylum and have that asylum claim assessed on its merits - also yes
    The claim of asylum from France has no merits, as there's no war, famine or torture going on there.

    If we were to allow asylum seekers from France, we should also be pushing for UN sanctions against France.
    It is quite clear, from statements in the Guardian etc, that conditions in France are utterly intolerable in France for refugees.

    Which means we have a failed state across the Channel.

    There is only one option left - invade France.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Somehow i don't think PB.com commenters share much commonality with the average "friend and family" of an American Trump supporter...

    The claimed statistic would imply that there's millions of "secret" Trump supporters hiding their political allegiance from "friends and family" who are also..."secret" Trump supporters!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    LOL 15,000 cases not included in recent numbers - Sky

    Well done Dido

    Figures from universities doing their own testing, nothing to do with the national testing effort.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    The Covid dashboard is still being updated -

    The process takes approximately 15 minutes to complete. Please do not refresh the website until 9:38pm.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    .
    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Yes, but if over three quarters won’t even admit to their family they’re backing Trump, does that make the Republicans the largest secret society in history ?
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    Follow up - I think it's supposed to be an upload that automatically gets added to the main dataset but it isn't working properly or wasn't set up properly in the first place. It's going to make things look bad for a while.
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    Foxy said:

    Todays results shows why the EPL is the best league in the world.

    Today's results show pisspoor defending in the PL!
    I wasn't talking about the quality of play, i was talking about entertainment value.
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Works both ways. Biden supporters living in Trumpier areas are likely to be shy to friends and family too. Even in this pretty liberal part of a pretty liberal county in a pretty liberal state *no-one* has lawn signs or bumper stickers out for either side.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    edited October 2020

    Foxy said:

    Todays results shows why the EPL is the best league in the world.

    Today's results show pisspoor defending in the PL!
    I wasn't talking about the quality of play, i was talking about entertainment value.
    Pity we can't watch!
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Ok. Own up. whose been mucking about with the Infinite Improbability Drive?

    It’s ok now. PM Osborne fresh from his narrow win over an Andy Burnham led Labour Party, says he’ll turn it back to normal on his way to the European summit next week, he’s just got to have a quick word with President Clinton first who’s on the campaign trail against Marco Rubio. She’s just made good on a promise to quadruple the funding of the Bill Gates’ pandemic prevention fund recently. Just in case.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    This is also on the Dashboard website.

    "An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK."
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Sandpit said:

    LOL 15,000 cases not included in recent numbers - Sky

    Well done Dido

    Figures from universities doing their own testing, nothing to do with the national testing effort.
    Bizarre that they're calling it "technical issues". Who runs Government and NHS/PHE communications. Just say what it is! Or are they extremely reluctant to admit to issues with universities?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    edited October 2020
    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    How do we know that? It's not unusual to change counting methods but they should be documented.

    Edit there is a new explanation that is a little more specific:

    An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    LOL 15,000 cases not included in recent numbers - Sky

    Well done Dido

    Oh hell, I really didn't enjoy April, and don't want to go back there again.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Sandpit said:

    LOL 15,000 cases not included in recent numbers - Sky

    Well done Dido

    Figures from universities doing their own testing, nothing to do with the national testing effort.
    It is. That the data hasn't been properly added is a PHE fuckup. At least it's fixed now. One of the issues is that we don't actually get the testing numbers from universities so the positive percentage becomes less useful as a monitoring statistic.
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    dr_spyn said:

    This is also on the Dashboard website.

    "An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK."

    Good job the scripters on here and the twitter machine will process properly, while the media juat show their flawed 7 day average by publication date.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    How do we know that? It's not unusual to change counting methods but they should be documented.
    Max has inside information.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    alex_ said:

    One i think question that needs to be addressed at the scientists/govt at some point is this:

    There is speculation that at some point (whether it's already happened to some extent or in the future) the virus will reduce in general harmfulness - either because it will mutate into a less harmful form or because treatment will improve so that the relative risk compared to other illnesses will not be obvious. It will just be one illness among many in the national picture of illnesses and deaths.

    As long as the focus of government policy is largely on case numbers alone, how would they be able to adjust to this? Or can we be confident that they are actually doing serious research into whether Covid continues, or will continue, to be a unique illness for which the economy and other health outcomes must be compromised for.

    Early in the pandemic data on excess deaths was highly useful in showing just how harmful Covid was. But at some point we will probably have to accept Covid is here to say in which case excess deaths figures/deaths caused by Covid are no longer relevant. We don't generally consider flu deaths as 'excess' in comparison to a world in which flu doesn't exist.

    There is no evidence that the virus has mutated into a milder form. This is common wishful thinking.

    The reason that the latest rise in infections (the actual rise, as shown by the ONS survey) had not caused a propionate increase in deaths is that the demographic of those infected has changed massively.

    Before, the very elderly were massively over represented. Now it is the younger cohorts. Though there are some worrying indications at the edges of the stats that could indicate the profile is going to change again. This latter issue is the worry across Europe - the new wave is currently not especially deadly. But if the profile moves to the elderly.....
    Also, most CV19 infections were previously undiagnosed.
    I’m wondering how long it will be before it goes rampaging through schools. The measures the government has put in place are ridiculous. In fact, if half of children are not suffering from pneumonia and severe dermatitis as a result of them by the end of November I shall be very surprised.
    It's a good question. However it is worth remembering that in Sweden, schools weren't a massive transmission vector.
    An even better reason not to force them to sit in wet and freezing classrooms and smother their hands in cheap sanitiser based on ethanol.

    The regulations run the very real risk of having serious lifelong consequences of their own.
    Wet and freezing classrooms?

    My daughter's school the children are in the same classes as normal. What's being done at yours?
    All windows and doors open.
    Oh for ventillation. I see.
    Which is logical - but doesn’t work too well when not all the classrooms have heating and even where they do it isn’t very efficient.
    It will kill people.
    That’s the worry I have. At this moment, the regulations are looking more dangerous to more people than Covid. Pneumonia is no joke. And dermatitis at that age can have serious lifelong consequences.

    Which means either we keep up with this and have serious damage - or abandon it, and have Covid run riot.

    I will admit, I don’t know what the easy answer to that is, but B may end up being the lower risk option.

    And that’s said in the full awareness it’s a nasty and highly infectious illness with grave long-term consequences.
    Are the parents fully aware of the conditions of the classrooms their kids are being taught in?
    Yes, although I’m interested that Philip Thompson thinks his daughter isn’t being taught in these conditions. So either his school is not following the regulations, or he’s not being told the truth.
    Surely the windows have to be shut if it's raining? Another point of course is that aren't there laws about minimum room temperatures in working and/or school environments? 16 degrees from memory, and everybody has to be sent home by law?
    Unfortunately, the HSE have apparently decided Covid trumps that law.
    I don't know how practical it is do this. Measure the CO2 ppm inside and outside the classroom. As long as the difference is not huge you have decent ventilation.
    Is this actually the HSE or is it some hi-viz-and-clipboard-napoleon? 99 times out of 100 this kid of stuff resolves down to the later - abusing Health and Safety in the name of Being In Charge Of Making Stuff Up.
    It’s the HSE. We were inspected by them and ordered to tighten procedures.
    I am surprised. I deal with regulators quite often. I find HSE Inspectors to be very practical, unlike the Environment Agency and Natural Resources Wales. I am surprised! Has your employer interpreted the HSE guidance appropriately?
    You misunderstand. It was the HSE inspector ordered that window to be reopened.
    They are normally so practical. If I were consulting, I would challenge the notice. You are only expected to control risks in ways that are "reasonably practicable". Freezing children to death is not "reasonably practicable".
    Yes - this is surprising. I'm comparing it to number of times, to my knowledge, that a real HSE inspector has come in, told the jobsworths to ^*&* off, and sorted out a sensible solution......
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986
    Just been to my Buddhist class. Where I learned all existence is in the nature of suffering.
    Then heard the LFC news.
    :smiley:
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rpjs said:

    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Works both ways. Biden supporters living in Trumpier areas are likely to be shy to friends and family too. Even in this pretty liberal part of a pretty liberal county in a pretty liberal state *no-one* has lawn signs or bumper stickers out for either side.
    Totally. Politics has become a toxic topic for too many people. It is a real shame.

    One thing I would say from a personal experience of talking with friends, Americans that bump into etc, the "shy Trump" phenomenon is definitely more of a professional / college educated thing. I don't find many blue-collar Trumpsters being shy about it but I know a fair few professional ones who won't say it because of the fears for their career. Generally the rule I have found with them - and this is if we speak to Americans on vacation outside the US - is that, if they are reluctant to talk politics, they are generally more pro-Trump.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    How do we know that? It's not unusual to change counting methods but they should be documented.
    I only know because my sister works for Imperial and mentioned she had to budget for it.
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    Scott_xP said:
    So that projection by the boffins might not be so bad after all.
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    Scott_xP said:
    So does that mean the actual daily count for today is ~7k?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687

    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    RobD said:

    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    See Patel's slightly unhinged conference speech announcing nothing but that she doesn't like lefties today.

    https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1312775610637447168
    Isn't the argument that they've already entered one country illegally, and should be claiming asylum there. The convention doesn't let you go from country to country until you've got to somewhere you like.
    The point is that they're not fleeing war, persecution or famine, they're mostly coming from France - a safe first world country that's a signatory to many international human rights conventions.
    The point is that regardless of whether they are failing to claim asylum at the first opportunity, if they end up in the UK then how they got in is not a legal invalidation of their claim.
    They are no longer covered by the convention.

    . The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their
    illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory
    where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or
    are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present
    themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
    illegal entry or presence.


    Unless their life was threatened in France, of course.
    Isn't that a different issue?

    1) can they be prosecuted (or have measures imposed upon them) for illegal entry to the Country - yes
    2) do they have a right to claim asylum and have that asylum claim assessed on its merits - also yes
    The claim of asylum from France has no merits, as there's no war, famine or torture going on there.

    If we were to allow asylum seekers from France, we should also be pushing for UN sanctions against France.
    It is quite clear, from statements in the Guardian etc, that conditions in France are utterly intolerable in France for refugees.

    Which means we have a failed state across the Channel.

    There is only one option left - invade France.
    Sssh! @HYUFD might hear you!
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,292

    alex_ said:

    They're reporting political resistance to the public health recommendation in Ireland. Some reluctance to cancel the GAA inter-County Championship. Could be an influential moment if they set themselves against it.

    Not bloody surprising. It think they're currently at whatever level 3 is, and the advice is to jump back to level 5! And the Govt had zero warning that this was coming.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-nphet-recommends-state-moves-to-level-5-restrictions-for-four-weeks-1.4371810
    Why not 4? That seems extreme!
    Most of the country is on level 2. I think the expectation was to move most of the country to level 3 and Dublin/Donegal/Roscommon to level 4.

    One of the subplots here is that the Chief Medical Officer returned to work a day early from compassionate leave to hold the public health meeting today. This very much looks like his decision.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    dr_spyn said:

    This is also on the Dashboard website.

    "An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK."

    Good job the scripters on here and the twitter machine will process properly, while the media juat show their flawed 7 day average by publication date.
    What dates were all the extra cases from yesterday?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL 15,000 cases not included in recent numbers - Sky

    Well done Dido

    Figures from universities doing their own testing, nothing to do with the national testing effort.
    Bizarre that they're calling it "technical issues". Who runs Government and NHS/PHE communications. Just say what it is! Or are they extremely reluctant to admit to issues with universities?
    One imagines the latter is a political decision which is well above the pay grade of the data grunts at PHE.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    Scott_xP said:
    So does that mean the actual daily count for today is ~7k?
    High for a weekend 😬
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Nigelb said:

    .

    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Yes, but if over three quarters won’t even admit to their family they’re backing Trump, does that make the Republicans the largest secret society in history ?</blockquote

    We are everywhere.....:)

    I seriousness, I do wonder whom they questioned. I would say (as I said to RPJS) that, for professional types, that figure sounds actually credible but not when you look at Trump supporters as a whole
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442

    Scott_xP said:
    So does that mean the actual daily count for today is ~7k?
    Something like that - well for the last 3-5 days :-)

    I will be running my process as soon as the update finishes. If it is like the last batch, it will be a uniform scattering of data.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986
    alex_ said:

    Just for clarification, these days is it mainstream Conservative belief that the phrase "lefty lawyer" is a tautology? Because it seems as if it is? Whenever the law contradicts Conservative party prejudice the law is to be treated as an ass, and those who seek to uphold it are "lefties". There must be a lot of lawyers out there who previously thought of themselves as bastions of Conservative thought having political identity crises these days.

    In 2010 more teachers voted Tory than Labour.
    They spent most of the Summer trying to persuade them not to.
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    Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1312853757454155776

    So don't tweet the totally misleading graph you total numpty Faisal...tweet a proper graph instead.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,197
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    RobD said:

    alex_ said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    See Patel's slightly unhinged conference speech announcing nothing but that she doesn't like lefties today.

    https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1312775610637447168
    Isn't the argument that they've already entered one country illegally, and should be claiming asylum there. The convention doesn't let you go from country to country until you've got to somewhere you like.
    The point is that they're not fleeing war, persecution or famine, they're mostly coming from France - a safe first world country that's a signatory to many international human rights conventions.
    The point is that regardless of whether they are failing to claim asylum at the first opportunity, if they end up in the UK then how they got in is not a legal invalidation of their claim.
    They are no longer covered by the convention.

    . The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their
    illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory
    where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or
    are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present
    themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their
    illegal entry or presence.


    Unless their life was threatened in France, of course.
    Isn't that a different issue?

    1) can they be prosecuted (or have measures imposed upon them) for illegal entry to the Country - yes
    2) do they have a right to claim asylum and have that asylum claim assessed on its merits - also yes
    The claim of asylum from France has no merits, as there's no war, famine or torture going on there.

    If we were to allow asylum seekers from France, we should also be pushing for UN sanctions against France.
    It is quite clear, from statements in the Guardian etc, that conditions in France are utterly intolerable in France for refugees.

    Which means we have a failed state across the Channel.

    There is only one option left - invade France.
    Sssh! @HYUFD might hear you!
    Can our forces really fight on so many fronts at once?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Foxy said:

    LOL 15,000 cases not included in recent numbers - Sky

    Well done Dido

    Oh hell, I really didn't enjoy April, and don't want to go back there again.
    How many are false positives?

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,220
    welshowl said:

    Ok. Own up. whose been mucking about with the Infinite Improbability Drive?

    It’s ok now. PM Osborne fresh from his narrow win over an Andy Burnham led Labour Party, says he’ll turn it back to normal on his way to the European summit next week, he’s just got to have a quick word with President Clinton first who’s on the campaign trail against Marco Rubio. She’s just made good on a promise to quadruple the funding of the Bill Gates’ pandemic prevention fund recently. Just in case.
    ... after Burnham's resignation the Labour leadership contest results announced yesterday saw Chuka Umuna narrowly defeated by Laura Pidcock.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Somehow i don't think PB.com commenters share much commonality with the average "friend and family" of an American Trump supporter...

    The claimed statistic would imply that there's millions of "secret" Trump supporters hiding their political allegiance from "friends and family" who are also..."secret" Trump supporters!
    Depends whom you mean. I don't. But then my wife's family is unfailingly polite and, even though they are Democrats, take the (old fashioned) view that everyone has the right to their opinion.

    As I said, the 77% figure looks way too high but can I believe people do not state whom they would vote for and hide it from friends and family? Absolutely. The subject is too toxic.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    dixiedean said:

    Just been to my Buddhist class. Where I learned all existence is in the nature of suffering.
    Then heard the LFC news.
    :smiley:

    Karma!
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    New lockdown in parts of New York.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    Right, PB’ers - your eminent advice is needed.

    I am applying to be a non-executive director on the Board of the Independent Office for Police Conduct. The form asks for social media information and I am of course going to point them to what I write on my work blog and elsewhere.

    But do I specifically highlight the two articles I’ve written on police culture and on the IOPC (see https://barry-walsh.co.uk/on-leadership-and-good-investigations/ and https://barry-walsh.co.uk/a-toxic-culture/) which are in pretty crisp terms?

    Or do I simply tell them about the website and let them read what is written on there?

    I doubt I’ll even get to the interview stage but I note from the information pack that winning candidates may even get to meet the Home Secretary. Which would be fun. For me.

    Thanks in advance.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    If Pence takes over, will we necessarily be told? What is the precedent under the 25th?

    Zero precedents as 25th Amendment has never been invoked.

    As for public announcement, amendment's language requires "transmission" of "written declaration" in cases where President resigns OR declares himself disabled (or that he is resuming office) OR where president is declared unable to perform his duties by VP and other top federal officers.

    Since purpose is to declare VP to be Acting President in cases of disability, which can be subsequently revoked by the (actual) President, public announcement would appear essential to any public act requiring presidential approval. Which is a lot.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    edited October 2020
    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:


    Yes, but if over three quarters won’t even admit to their family they’re backing Trump, does that make the Republicans the largest secret society in history ?

    We are everywhere.....:)

    I seriousness, I do wonder whom they questioned. I would say (as I said to RPJS) that, for professional types, that figure sounds actually credible but not when you look at Trump supporters as a whole
    Doesn’t really explain the Kardashian question, though....

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    welshowl said:

    Ok. Own up. whose been mucking about with the Infinite Improbability Drive?

    It’s ok now. PM Osborne fresh from his narrow win over an Andy Burnham led Labour Party, says he’ll turn it back to normal on his way to the European summit next week, he’s just got to have a quick word with President Clinton first who’s on the campaign trail against Marco Rubio. She’s just made good on a promise to quadruple the funding of the Bill Gates’ pandemic prevention fund recently. Just in case.
    Oh - if only!
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Yokes said:
    Indeed. I flagged that in response to Robert's piece earlier as probably the top reason why the polls might not be right. Glad you recognise its importance.

    Here is the other piece of evidence, at least in PA, of why that is important - there is a very strong correlation between changes in voter registration and change in share of vote.

    https://www.inquirer.com/politics/pennsylvania/pennsylvania-party-voter-registration-trump-biden-20200729.html
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    Foxy said:

    LOL 15,000 cases not included in recent numbers - Sky

    Well done Dido

    Oh hell, I really didn't enjoy April, and don't want to go back there again.
    How many are false positives?

    Not many. The number of tests has been fairly stable while the numbers of positives remorselessly on the rise. The tests haven't suddenly become progressively less accurate.

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442
    Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    Nigelb said:


    Yes, but if over three quarters won’t even admit to their family they’re backing Trump, does that make the Republicans the largest secret society in history ?

    We are everywhere.....:)

    I seriousness, I do wonder whom they questioned. I would say (as I said to RPJS) that, for professional types, that figure sounds actually credible but not when you look at Trump supporters as a whole
    Doesn’t really explain the Kardashian question, though....

    We are on the side of Bajorans.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,197
    Cyclefree said:

    Right, PB’ers - your eminent advice is needed.

    I am applying to be a non-executive director on the Board of the Independent Office for Police Conduct. The form asks for social media information and I am of course going to point them to what I write on my work blog and elsewhere.

    But do I specifically highlight the two articles I’ve written on police culture and on the IOPC (see https://barry-walsh.co.uk/on-leadership-and-good-investigations/ and https://barry-walsh.co.uk/a-toxic-culture/) which are in pretty crisp terms?

    Or do I simply tell them about the website and let them read what is written on there?

    I doubt I’ll even get to the interview stage but I note from the information pack that winning candidates may even get to meet the Home Secretary. Which would be fun. For me.

    Thanks in advance.

    Hello Cyclefree

    Probably best to be upfront about what you have written on these blogs rather than it come out later.

    This comes from someone who no longer works but whom has operated at a quite senior level in the city and who understands the politics of how the city works

    Best wishes with your application

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    WTF. Are these #s for real?

    My nearest city, Nottingham, has just added 600-odd, and put yesterday's figure up to 252.

    Fresher's flu on steroids.

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    How do we know that? It's not unusual to change counting methods but they should be documented.

    Edit there is a new explanation that is a little more specific:

    An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK.
    They are still muddying the waters. It's not clear what the base figures are for the 3rd and 4th Oct. If there are 16K extra cases loaded onto the two days, with headline numbers of 13K yesterday and 23K today that implies a base number of 20K cases across the two days.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,291

    Scott_xP said:
    So that projection by the boffins might not be so bad after all.
    Looking at the graph, there have been a consistent few days of >10k cases. Hard to tell what the trend actually looks like right now because of all this "correction" going on.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Somehow i don't think PB.com commenters share much commonality with the average "friend and family" of an American Trump supporter...

    The claimed statistic would imply that there's millions of "secret" Trump supporters hiding their political allegiance from "friends and family" who are also..."secret" Trump supporters!
    Depends whom you mean. I don't. But then my wife's family is unfailingly polite and, even though they are Democrats, take the (old fashioned) view that everyone has the right to their opinion.

    As I said, the 77% figure looks way too high but can I believe people do not state whom they would vote for and hide it from friends and family? Absolutely. The subject is too toxic.
    I wasn't questioning the fact that there might be "shy Trumpers". I absolutely was questioning the claimed 77% figure!

    The irony being that the article is trying to claim that the reason this poll is good for Trump, when all the others are so bad, is because the others are failing to detect the shy supporters. To how has this poll avoided that pitfall? By the simple step of asking the question "are you a shy Trumper" ;)
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    The rise looks very bad now with all data included. 11.4k on the 30th, that's showing a big rise, but at least we'll get a real picture of what's happening in the country now rather than a partial one. We're currently running at around 12k cases per day, but it's not showing up too badly in the hospitalisation data.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    I think they are just waiting for the university data.
  • Options
    Ola: London bans Uber rival over safety concerns

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54412123
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    Ok. Own up. whose been mucking about with the Infinite Improbability Drive?

    It’s ok now. PM Osborne fresh from his narrow win over an Andy Burnham led Labour Party, says he’ll turn it back to normal on his way to the European summit next week, he’s just got to have a quick word with President Clinton first who’s on the campaign trail against Marco Rubio. She’s just made good on a promise to quadruple the funding of the Bill Gates’ pandemic prevention fund recently. Just in case.
    ... after Burnham's resignation the Labour leadership contest results announced yesterday saw Chuka Umuna narrowly defeated by Laura Pidcock.
    Dear God. At least we’ve been spared that.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,687
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    How do we know that? It's not unusual to change counting methods but they should be documented.

    Edit there is a new explanation that is a little more specific:

    An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK.
    'artificially high'? They're real cases FFS!

    What they should have said is that the previous figures were artificially low.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    The rise looks very bad now with all data included. 11.4k on the 30th, that's showing a big rise, but at least we'll get a real picture of what's happening in the country now rather than a partial one. We're currently running at around 12k cases per day, but it's not showing up too badly in the hospitalisation data.

    I presume because it is all the young lepers at unis.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MaxPB said:

    The rise looks very bad now with all data included. 11.4k on the 30th, that's showing a big rise, but at least we'll get a real picture of what's happening in the country now rather than a partial one. We're currently running at around 12k cases per day, but it's not showing up too badly in the hospitalisation data.

    But if it's all largely due to testing of asymptomatic university students, then any rises are almost entirely going to be down to increased testing. Just sets a different artificial threshold for what should be considered "high numbers".
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    How do we know that? It's not unusual to change counting methods but they should be documented.

    Edit there is a new explanation that is a little more specific:

    An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK.
    'artificially high'? They're real cases FFS!

    What they should have said is that the previous figures were artificially low.
    It can still make it artificially high, if five days' worth of missing figures were added to a single day, for example.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,442

    Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1312853757454155776

    So don't tweet the totally misleading graph you total numpty Faisal...tweet a proper graph instead.
    Hmmmm..... so he is complaining that the chart of data by reporting day is showing the the data by reporting day.

    Let lose the Kimono'd & Baseball Bat Wielding Lawyer Of The Apocalypse!
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    The rise looks very bad now with all data included. 11.4k on the 30th, that's showing a big rise, but at least we'll get a real picture of what's happening in the country now rather than a partial one. We're currently running at around 12k cases per day, but it's not showing up too badly in the hospitalisation data.

    Lots of young people eg students, low viral load, possibly less virulent strain. Boris needs to keep his nerve and keep the economy open.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,197

    WTF. Are these #s for real?

    My nearest city, Nottingham, has just added 600-odd, and put yesterday's figure up to 252.

    Fresher's flu on steroids.

    Massive increase in University areas

    Manchester +1,000 today

    That's pro rated 1,000/100,000 per week

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    alex_ said:

    MaxPB said:

    The rise looks very bad now with all data included. 11.4k on the 30th, that's showing a big rise, but at least we'll get a real picture of what's happening in the country now rather than a partial one. We're currently running at around 12k cases per day, but it's not showing up too badly in the hospitalisation data.

    But if it's all largely due to testing of asymptomatic university students, then any rises are almost entirely going to be down to increased testing. Just sets a different artificial threshold for what should be considered "high numbers".
    Yes, we're also above the ONS daily rate right now because I don't think they send tests to students, which might be a bit of an oversight.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    Cyclefree said:

    Right, PB’ers - your eminent advice is needed.

    I am applying to be a non-executive director on the Board of the Independent Office for Police Conduct. The form asks for social media information and I am of course going to point them to what I write on my work blog and elsewhere.

    But do I specifically highlight the two articles I’ve written on police culture and on the IOPC (see https://barry-walsh.co.uk/on-leadership-and-good-investigations/ and https://barry-walsh.co.uk/a-toxic-culture/) which are in pretty crisp terms?

    Or do I simply tell them about the website and let them read what is written on there?

    I doubt I’ll even get to the interview stage but I note from the information pack that winning candidates may even get to meet the Home Secretary. Which would be fun. For me.

    Thanks in advance.

    I think just mention the websites that you write for, leave the rest for the interview stage. It will either go down very badly or very well. If it's the former then it is probably not going to be a job that you would like, the latter and it is hand rubbing time.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Scott_xP said:
    Vaccinating those at risk vs. vaccinating everyone has the same effect - far less pressure on the NHS.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726

    Scott_xP said:
    So that projection by the boffins might not be so bad after all.
    The numbers are inevitably exponential but slower than shown by Whitty. He had numbers doubling every 7 days when it has been nearer to every 10 days.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    The rise looks very bad now with all data included. 11.4k on the 30th, that's showing a big rise, but at least we'll get a real picture of what's happening in the country now rather than a partial one. We're currently running at around 12k cases per day, but it's not showing up too badly in the hospitalisation data.

    Lots of young people eg students, low viral load, possibly less virulent strain. Boris needs to keep his nerve and keep the economy open.
    Yes, completely agree. Students getting the virus probably isn't the worst thing in the world.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    How do we know that? It's not unusual to change counting methods but they should be documented.

    Edit there is a new explanation that is a little more specific:

    An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK.
    'artificially high'? They're real cases FFS!

    What they should have said is that the previous figures were artificially low.
    Or that the apparent rate of increase in cases is misleading.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Vaccinating those at risk vs. vaccinating everyone has the same effect - far less pressure on the NHS.
    Everyone of the age 18-21 will have had it by Halloween.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Somehow i don't think PB.com commenters share much commonality with the average "friend and family" of an American Trump supporter...

    The claimed statistic would imply that there's millions of "secret" Trump supporters hiding their political allegiance from "friends and family" who are also..."secret" Trump supporters!
    Depends whom you mean. I don't. But then my wife's family is unfailingly polite and, even though they are Democrats, take the (old fashioned) view that everyone has the right to their opinion.

    As I said, the 77% figure looks way too high but can I believe people do not state whom they would vote for and hide it from friends and family? Absolutely. The subject is too toxic.
    I wasn't questioning the fact that there might be "shy Trumpers". I absolutely was questioning the claimed 77% figure!

    The irony being that the article is trying to claim that the reason this poll is good for Trump, when all the others are so bad, is because the others are failing to detect the shy supporters. To how has this poll avoided that pitfall? By the simple step of asking the question "are you a shy Trumper" ;)
    Yup, not sure the methodology is the most accurate :)

    Yokes is right though, the registration data stuff is far more important than what the Daily Express is writing. That is more of an indication that the polls might be out.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689

    WTF. Are these #s for real?

    My nearest city, Nottingham, has just added 600-odd, and put yesterday's figure up to 252.

    Fresher's flu on steroids.

    It fits with Fox jrs tale of a friend in Nottingham quarantined in Halls. Apparently someone threw a party...
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259

    WTF. Are these #s for real?

    My nearest city, Nottingham, has just added 600-odd, and put yesterday's figure up to 252.

    Fresher's flu on steroids.

    Massive increase in University areas

    Manchester +1,000 today

    That's pro rated 1,000/100,000 per week

    All very predictable. Every student will have had it by end of the month (as they do with 'normal' fresher's flu). No idea why there is a worry about them coming home at Xmas. Stop then coming home in October makes far more sense.

  • Options

    Todays results shows why the EPL is the best league in the world.

    Apart from the defenders.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    FF43 said:

    UK Covid dashboard not updated so far today. I suspect the "technical issue" hasn't in fact been resolved. In any case this is an inadequate explanation:

    Due to a technical issue, which has now been resolved, there has been a delay in publishing a number of COVID-19 cases to the dashboard in England. This means the total reported over the coming days will include some additional cases from the period between 24 September and 1 October, increasing the number of cases reported.

    It's university testing results that are being added manually with CSV files.
    How do we know that? It's not unusual to change counting methods but they should be documented.

    Edit there is a new explanation that is a little more specific:

    An issue was identified overnight on Friday 2 October in the automated process that transfers positive cases data to PHE. It has now been resolved.

    The cases by publish date for 3 and 4 October include 15,841 additional cases with specimen dates between 25 September and 2 October — they are therefore artificially high for England and the UK.
    'artificially high'? They're real cases FFS!

    What they should have said is that the previous figures were artificially low.
    Or that the apparent rate of increase in cases is misleading.
    Or that they are worried the media will run the 22k figure with no explanation and cause a bunch of panic for nothing.

    It does worry me that the DoH isn't out there explaining that the extra cases are majority university ones being added to the system and that these outbreaks are under control already. That I know because my sister wanted to know what to budget for a data person is just random luck.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    alex_ said:

    MaxPB said:

    The rise looks very bad now with all data included. 11.4k on the 30th, that's showing a big rise, but at least we'll get a real picture of what's happening in the country now rather than a partial one. We're currently running at around 12k cases per day, but it's not showing up too badly in the hospitalisation data.

    But if it's all largely due to testing of asymptomatic university students, then any rises are almost entirely going to be down to increased testing. Just sets a different artificial threshold for what should be considered "high numbers".
    Perfect strategy provided none of those students interact in any way with anyone outside their circle and/or the contact tracing machine gets all their contacts into quarantine.

    Otherwise their infection will spread into the wider community.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986
    alex_ said:

    MaxPB said:

    The rise looks very bad now with all data included. 11.4k on the 30th, that's showing a big rise, but at least we'll get a real picture of what's happening in the country now rather than a partial one. We're currently running at around 12k cases per day, but it's not showing up too badly in the hospitalisation data.

    But if it's all largely due to testing of asymptomatic university students, then any rises are almost entirely going to be down to increased testing. Just sets a different artificial threshold for what should be considered "high numbers".
    Those asymptomatic students have been wandering around city centres in great numbers the past couple of weeks.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Vaccinating those at risk vs. vaccinating everyone has the same effect - far less pressure on the NHS.
    I actually find this reassuring. It indicates that the Govt might be starting to think in terms of cost-benefit equations which is ultimately what is needed to escape the clutches of this virus.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    Foxy said:

    WTF. Are these #s for real?

    My nearest city, Nottingham, has just added 600-odd, and put yesterday's figure up to 252.

    Fresher's flu on steroids.

    It fits with Fox jrs tale of a friend in Nottingham quarantined in Halls. Apparently someone threw a party...
    A mate of mine reported mass groups of students on the nottingham tram in the evenings with no masks. Far too many for the tram to be anything like distancing.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Vaccinating those at risk vs. vaccinating everyone has the same effect - far less pressure on the NHS.
    More to the point, no safety testing has been conducted in children.
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    MrEd said:

    rpjs said:

    MrEd said:

    alex_ said:

    GIN1138 said:
    "77% of Trump supporters would not admit it to friends or family members".

    I call bulls*t!
    Well, from a personal standpoint, I can testify to that and the abuse I got on PB.com for saying I would vote for him ironically demonstrated why many are reluctant to say that they would....
    Works both ways. Biden supporters living in Trumpier areas are likely to be shy to friends and family too. Even in this pretty liberal part of a pretty liberal county in a pretty liberal state *no-one* has lawn signs or bumper stickers out for either side.
    Totally. Politics has become a toxic topic for too many people. It is a real shame.

    One thing I would say from a personal experience of talking with friends, Americans that bump into etc, the "shy Trump" phenomenon is definitely more of a professional / college educated thing. I don't find many blue-collar Trumpsters being shy about it but I know a fair few professional ones who won't say it because of the fears for their career. Generally the rule I have found with them - and this is if we speak to Americans on vacation outside the US - is that, if they are reluctant to talk politics, they are generally more pro-Trump.
    I can understand people not wanting to admit to voting for Trump to friends and family (frankly it really is embarrassing!) but I don't see why that would prevent them telling polling organisations who they are supporting.

    By the way, If todays 5 sets of national polls are anything to go by (7-14% Biden leads) the Biden 3% you were ramping yesterday looks to be a bit of an outlier. Who knows, time will tell
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