Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
This was posted earlier by @sirclive (originally from Florin Vio Sandu). For me this picture has a simpler stronger message that those of Boris and the Boffins earlier today, and it provides a rather different policy perspective.
I’m not sure this says what you think it says.
This refers to either ‘COVID-19’ or ‘Flu and Pneumonia’ (which slightly confusingly means flu or pneumonia) being mentioned somewhere on the death certificate. In other words it includes people both dying with and dying from these diseases.
However the death certificates also specify a single underlying cause and the records show Covid was listed as the underlying cause in 93% of the certificates that mentioned it whereas historically Flu or Pneumonia were the underlying cause in only 28% of certificates mentioning them. And Flu specifically is even less likely to have been the underlying cause - in 2019 it was listed as such in only 4.6% of cases involving ‘Flu and Pneumonia’.
So, while we definitely don’t have all of the data for 2020 yet, the graph you shared almost certainly shows that Flu itself is currently still much less deadly than Covid. And, even taken together, Pneumonia and Flu have caused many fewer deaths than Covid over the last few months.
Welcome Misterbenn! And thanks for your comment. Alistair also implied something similar above (on Vanilla!). Indeed the ONS says "Figures for Influenza and Pneumonia represent where either of these causes have been mentioned anywhere on the death certificate meaning they will not necessarily be the underlying cause of death."
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
Not sure what basis you are saying the polling has been getting better for Trump? Most polling is largely unchanged from August and shows Trump behind - and recent polls have him 10 points behind in Pennsylvania. I think Florida is the only state where you can make a credible case that his position has improved, and that's not enough. Certainly no one is talking about Trump picking up Minnesota anymore - on current polling if there are any surprise flips they are more likely to be negative for Trump - Georgia, Texas, Ohio.
The debate last night was one of Trump's last chances to shake up the race, so quite why he went in with a strategy that would secure - at best - a messy draw is beyond me.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
I wonder if we're going to find that the virus transmits more easily in refrigerated conditions. Otherwise wouldn't we be getting more outbreaks in all close confines industry?
There was some finding last week about very long survival on a frozen surface, as I recall?
I'm no scientist, but the fomite theory has always seemed overblown to me. Would make much more sense if eg aerosolised infection is made easier at lower temps...
Edit to add: or refrigerated environments have air con?
Or, as the science of other coronaviruses suggests, viable virus survives well and long in cold dry environments, and that, combined with some activity that is aerosol-/droplet-generating, such as sawing big chunks of meat up, creates an environment where fomites are turned into infectious droplets.
Thanks Tim, very interesting - makes sense as well as having the benefit of actual scientific bases rather than my historian's hunch!
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Let's assume it is correct.
Said person should be going to prison. (And, indeed, there have been people who've gone to prison for breach of electoral law in the last few years.)
The Federal Election Commission is under the control of the President.
It's pretty easy to find out if the system has been genuinely abused. Select 100 postal ballots at random. Then find out if said person actually voted, and in the correct way. You can do this in individual states. And you can find pretty easily if there are places where there are problems.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Honestly, I've absolutely no idea in this era of fake news and the ability to doctor stuff. But I guess it's just coincidence that Project Veritas (ha) is going after Ilhan Omar, the bete noir of the racist right.
If we're going to talk voter fraud, let's talk about the North Carolina 9th Congressional district in 2018 where actual charges and an indictment have been issued against the Republican candidate
Good, if so, but late. Please speak with the devolved admins as well.
When bureaucrats simplify things they actually pass further enactments to further complicate them by amendments. The list of virus legislation so far (titles only, not the thousands of pages of text) is found below, courtesy of Adam Wagner QC. When it is all repealed and a few pages of common sense substituted (with the consent of parliament) I shall start believing.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
Not sure what basis you are saying the polling has been getting better for Trump? Most polling is largely unchanged from August and shows Trump behind - and recent polls have him 10 points behind in Pennsylvania. I think Florida is the only state where you can make a credible case that his position has improved, and that's not enough. Certainly no one is talking about Trump picking up Minnesota anymore - on current polling if there are any surprise flips they are more likely to be negative for Trump - Georgia, Texas, Ohio.
The debate last night was one of Trump's last chances to shake up the race, so quite why he went in with a strategy that would secure - at best - a messy draw is beyond me.
Well, have to admit it was posted before I saw the Rasmussen poll, which is certainly not great for Trump. He had a couple of national polls showing Biden with a mid single digit lead, which is not insurmountable. On the state polls, being frank, they are somewhat over the place and you also have somewhat contradictory numbers coming out between Senate races and the Presidential election which goes against the argument that ticket-splitting is dead - or that something is not right.
As I said, I'm not putting bets on this because I don't feel comfortable enough and I say that as someone who made money on it in 2016.
If we're going to talk voter fraud, let's talk about the North Carolina 9th Congressional district in 2018 where actual charges and an indictment have been issued against the Republican candidate
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Honestly, I've absolutely no idea in this era of fake news and the ability to doctor stuff. But I guess it's just coincidence that Project Veritas (ha) is going after Ilhan Omar, the bete noir of the racist right.
Oh, they definitely want to take Omar down, no doubt about that. And, as I said to Not-on-Fire, all voter fraud is wrong, whoever it is done by.
It is just this whole "we're against Trump, so therefore we are holier than thou" garbage that gets me. Look, just come out and say it - if you believe voter fraud is justified in the higher cause of getting rid of Trump, then just be honest about it.
If we're going to talk voter fraud, let's talk about the North Carolina 9th Congressional district in 2018 where actual charges and an indictment have been issued against the Republican candidate
But I'm sure allegations on random right-wing website against an ethnic minority candidate are just as credible.
Voter fraud is voter fraud whichever side it is done by - it is wrong.
Will you now say the same thing?
Yes, of course electoral fraud (and voter fraud - which is something else - as well) is wrong and the authorities should be involved if there is credible evidence it has occurred. That test was certainly met in North Carolina; it remains to be seen if it applies here.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Honestly, I've absolutely no idea in this era of fake news and the ability to doctor stuff. But I guess it's just coincidence that Project Veritas (ha) is going after Ilhan Omar, the bete noir of the racist right.
Oh, they definitely want to take Omar down, no doubt about that. And, as I said to Not-on-Fire, all voter fraud is wrong, whoever it is done by.
It is just this whole "we're against Trump, so therefore we are holier than thou" garbage that gets me. Look, just come out and say it - if you believe voter fraud is justified in the higher cause of getting rid of Trump, then just be honest about it.
No, I agree with you. All voter fraud is wrong, whichever side does it.
And I'm pleased you agree with me that Project Veritas's primary motivation is to take Ilhan Omar down.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Let's assume it is correct.
Said person should be going to prison. (And, indeed, there have been people who've gone to prison for breach of electoral law in the last few years.)
The Federal Election Commission is under the control of the President.
It's pretty easy to find out if the system has been genuinely abused. Select 100 postal ballots at random. Then find out if said person actually voted, and in the correct way. You can do this in individual states. And you can find pretty easily if there are places where there are problems.
Is President Trump doing this?
No.
Definitely not saying Trump is right. My view, FWIW, is these things generally cancel each other out (voter suppression in the South, ballot harvesting in states like CA).
I think one thing people have to get over on here (and sorry for the generalisation and definitely not aimed at you @rcs1000 is that, if you vote for Trump, you think the man can do no wrong and is an absolute legend and genius. He's not and he has plenty of faults. Why he didn't condemn racists more fully is just plain stupid and wrong. However, in a choice, my view is he is better than the other choice on offer. Simple as that.
Good, as it's the right thing to do. It is a good idea to let local authorities ask for measures to be taken that are appropriate for the circumstances and locale, but letting every authority decide what the specific rules are has lead to a complex and patchy set of rules, which are particularly problematic for people who have to travel between areas with different rules.
Having a small set of rules that are applied nationally will make it much easier for everyone to follow them, and hopefully each rule level will be a superset of the lower level to keep it simpler still.
This is a sensible and appropriate change to deal with a problem that has emerged. We ought to applaud such changes not criticise them.
FIve Thirty Eight currently giving Trump a 20% chance of winning. I am betting on the basis he has a 30% chance as I think his ability to play shenanigans with the ballots and Supreme Court will bring him over the line in a close result. One would hope such tactics would not be possible in a Biden 100+EV win scenario.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Honestly, I've absolutely no idea in this era of fake news and the ability to doctor stuff. But I guess it's just coincidence that Project Veritas (ha) is going after Ilhan Omar, the bete noir of the racist right.
Oh, they definitely want to take Omar down, no doubt about that. And, as I said to Not-on-Fire, all voter fraud is wrong, whoever it is done by.
It is just this whole "we're against Trump, so therefore we are holier than thou" garbage that gets me. Look, just come out and say it - if you believe voter fraud is justified in the higher cause of getting rid of Trump, then just be honest about it.
Voter fraud is never justified, and the government (both State and Federal) should devote proper resources to making sure it is tracked down and prosecuted to the greatest extent possible.
Usually it is the opposition claiming the government is rigging things, because it is - after all - the government that has the power.
This time is it is the government claiming the opposition is rigging it.
Don't you think that's just a bit odd? And it would also be very easy to verify if there were serious problems.
Instead we get the President claiming it's all rigged. Don't you think that's deeply fucked up?
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Honestly, I've absolutely no idea in this era of fake news and the ability to doctor stuff. But I guess it's just coincidence that Project Veritas (ha) is going after Ilhan Omar, the bete noir of the racist right.
Oh, they definitely want to take Omar down, no doubt about that. And, as I said to Not-on-Fire, all voter fraud is wrong, whoever it is done by.
It is just this whole "we're against Trump, so therefore we are holier than thou" garbage that gets me. Look, just come out and say it - if you believe voter fraud is justified in the higher cause of getting rid of Trump, then just be honest about it.
No, I agree with you. All voter fraud is wrong, whichever side does it.
And I'm pleased you agree with me that Project Veritas's primary motivation is to take Ilhan Omar down.
Absolutely. I have no doubt about that and I don't doubt they have some unsavoury reasons for doing so. At least we agree on a couple of things
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Let's assume it is correct.
Said person should be going to prison. (And, indeed, there have been people who've gone to prison for breach of electoral law in the last few years.)
The Federal Election Commission is under the control of the President.
It's pretty easy to find out if the system has been genuinely abused. Select 100 postal ballots at random. Then find out if said person actually voted, and in the correct way. You can do this in individual states. And you can find pretty easily if there are places where there are problems.
Is President Trump doing this?
No.
Definitely not saying Trump is right. My view, FWIW, is these things generally cancel each other out (voter suppression in the South, ballot harvesting in states like CA).
I think one thing people have to get over on here (and sorry for the generalisation and definitely not aimed at you @rcs1000 is that, if you vote for Trump, you think the man can do no wrong and is an absolute legend and genius. He's not and he has plenty of faults. Why he didn't condemn racists more fully is just plain stupid and wrong. However, in a choice, my view is he is better than the other choice on offer. Simple as that.
It's because he is a massive racist.
A vote for Trump is a vote for a massive racist who's massively increased the deficit.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Honestly, I've absolutely no idea in this era of fake news and the ability to doctor stuff. But I guess it's just coincidence that Project Veritas (ha) is going after Ilhan Omar, the bete noir of the racist right.
Oh, they definitely want to take Omar down, no doubt about that. And, as I said to Not-on-Fire, all voter fraud is wrong, whoever it is done by.
It is just this whole "we're against Trump, so therefore we are holier than thou" garbage that gets me. Look, just come out and say it - if you believe voter fraud is justified in the higher cause of getting rid of Trump, then just be honest about it.
Voter fraud is never justified, and the government (both State and Federal) should devote proper resources to making sure it is tracked down and prosecuted to the greatest extent possible.
Usually it is the opposition claiming the government is rigging things, because it is - after all - the government that has the power.
This time is it is the government claiming the opposition is rigging it.
Don't you think that's just a bit odd? And it would also be very easy to verify if there were serious problems.
Instead we get the President claiming it's all rigged. Don't you think that's deeply fucked up?
I do think it is f*cked up but my view is this along the lines of trying to show "both sides are bad as each other" and depress turnout. The Democrats claim Trump is gutting USPS to stop postal voting and Trump claims the mail-in ballot system is flawed.
Both sides use hyperbole to push their agenda.
Slightly off track but let me ask this. When Nancy Pelosi said Republicans are "Domestic Enemies", did you think that was justified talk?
I'm just catching up on things at the moment as I've had a rather busy day. Given what I've heard second-hand about events from the other Mr Rook, here's where I think we are.
I'm more convinced than ever that the pandemic hit the UK so hard largely because of mass seeding of the disease into the country by people returning from foreign holidays. It's the best explanation for why, as Whitty reportedly confirmed today, the spread of Covid through the UK in March/April was far more uniform than in other comparable states.
During the initial peak, all regions of the country suffered significantly, although London was of course hit harder than everywhere else, including other major urban centres. That's probably largely attributable to Hooray Henries and Henriettas from the weathier parts of the Home Counties coming back from Plague-infested Alpine ski resorts and spreading it through our squalid, cattle truck commuter transit system on the way into their City offices.
Then, as we moved past the peak, there was a window for further disease importation after people stopped taking holidays en masse, but before the Government temporarily imposed quarantine for all incoming travellers from abroad. IIRC much of the remaining air passenger traffic in and out of the UK during that period was in the form of family reunion flights to and from the Indian subcontinent. That would certainly help to explain why so many of the early hotspot locations where the virus began to flare up again were locations with large South Asian diaspora communities.
Now that we're moving into Autumn and, for whatever reason (crap weather? schools going back?) the spread of the disease has become more general, we're getting a pattern more like that seen in some continental countries during both this wave and the first, with substantial numbers of cases in some areas and modest, minor or no increases in others, with the dominant theme appearing to be a more general propagation of the virus through areas of densely-packed, lower-quality housing. Hence the fact that much of South Wales presently finds itself being immolated in a Covid-19 dumpster fire, whilst the disease is still vanishingly rare in, for example, East Devon. The best those of us in lower-risk areas can hope for is that we continue to track what's happening in France and Spain, that the rate of increase in the number of cases therefore slows down, and it remains stubbornly persistent only in certain areas (so that, from a purely selfish point of view, we're allowed to get on with life without being throttled by ever-escalating restrictions.)
What I'm afraid will actually happen is that students will be to the Autumn what holidaymakers were to the Spring, seed new outbreaks here, there and everywhere, and give the Government the pretext to do what I'm still convinced they want to do and order a complete national lockdown. But we shall see.
The pattern of further seeding in August also had an element of holiday in it - except August foreign holidays are a more egalitarian affair. So, a second bump into northern towns, but also a low incidence appeared from nowhere in the shires. Isolation in northern less office based cities was less good and the weather a bit colder, so spread took hold more in the north. Places with a domestic holiday industry (and seasonal work) were less affected.
Summer holidays are considerably more outdoorsy than winter holidays, unless you are under 25 and go out clubbing every night and only stagger out of bed after midday, which is exactly the age group with peak Corona in August.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Let's assume it is correct.
Said person should be going to prison. (And, indeed, there have been people who've gone to prison for breach of electoral law in the last few years.)
The Federal Election Commission is under the control of the President.
It's pretty easy to find out if the system has been genuinely abused. Select 100 postal ballots at random. Then find out if said person actually voted, and in the correct way. You can do this in individual states. And you can find pretty easily if there are places where there are problems.
Is President Trump doing this?
No.
Definitely not saying Trump is right. My view, FWIW, is these things generally cancel each other out (voter suppression in the South, ballot harvesting in states like CA).
I think one thing people have to get over on here (and sorry for the generalisation and definitely not aimed at you @rcs1000 is that, if you vote for Trump, you think the man can do no wrong and is an absolute legend and genius. He's not and he has plenty of faults. Why he didn't condemn racists more fully is just plain stupid and wrong. However, in a choice, my view is he is better than the other choice on offer. Simple as that.
It's because he is a massive racist.
A vote for Trump is a vote for a massive racist who's massively increased the deficit.
And, given Biden's record, you think he is a great supporter of Black people?
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Let's assume it is correct.
Said person should be going to prison. (And, indeed, there have been people who've gone to prison for breach of electoral law in the last few years.)
The Federal Election Commission is under the control of the President.
It's pretty easy to find out if the system has been genuinely abused. Select 100 postal ballots at random. Then find out if said person actually voted, and in the correct way. You can do this in individual states. And you can find pretty easily if there are places where there are problems.
Is President Trump doing this?
No.
Definitely not saying Trump is right. My view, FWIW, is these things generally cancel each other out (voter suppression in the South, ballot harvesting in states like CA).
I think one thing people have to get over on here (and sorry for the generalisation and definitely not aimed at you @rcs1000 is that, if you vote for Trump, you think the man can do no wrong and is an absolute legend and genius. He's not and he has plenty of faults. Why he didn't condemn racists more fully is just plain stupid and wrong. However, in a choice, my view is he is better than the other choice on offer. Simple as that.
It's because he is a massive racist.
A vote for Trump is a vote for a massive racist who's massively increased the deficit.
And, given Biden's record, you think he is a great supporter of Black people?
Normally when you do whataboutery you have to provide an example otherwise it looks real weak.
It helps deflect from the racism of your preferred choice.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Let's assume it is correct.
Said person should be going to prison. (And, indeed, there have been people who've gone to prison for breach of electoral law in the last few years.)
The Federal Election Commission is under the control of the President.
It's pretty easy to find out if the system has been genuinely abused. Select 100 postal ballots at random. Then find out if said person actually voted, and in the correct way. You can do this in individual states. And you can find pretty easily if there are places where there are problems.
Is President Trump doing this?
No.
Definitely not saying Trump is right. My view, FWIW, is these things generally cancel each other out (voter suppression in the South, ballot harvesting in states like CA).
I think one thing people have to get over on here (and sorry for the generalisation and definitely not aimed at you @rcs1000 is that, if you vote for Trump, you think the man can do no wrong and is an absolute legend and genius. He's not and he has plenty of faults. Why he didn't condemn racists more fully is just plain stupid and wrong. However, in a choice, my view is he is better than the other choice on offer. Simple as that.
It's because he is a massive racist.
A vote for Trump is a vote for a massive racist who's massively increased the deficit.
And, given Biden's record, you think he is a great supporter of Black people?
Whataboutery aside, Black people certainly seem to like Biden judging by the result in the SC primary.
Late to the party on last night's debate. I didn't watch it but saw some of the highlights and have been reading the commentary on it and the comments here. Funnily enough, it seems to have shifted to a view of a Biden win from, at the time of the debate, a more balanced view.
As someone who would vote for Trump if I was a US voter, there was nothing in there which would make me think "wow, I can't vote for him now I know this." If you don't know what he is like after all these years, you have been living in a cave. My reasoning would be much of America is in a mess, much of which is related to its trade policies and, while Trump's personal ways of conducting himself leave much to be desired, sometimes you need in politics, as in war, a barroom brawler. TBH, though, if Biden won, I wouldn't be weeping in the streets or calling the election a fraud. He wins, that is that.
On the debate itself, I think DavidL had it bang on the money. Trump came across as a bully but that is the way of the world and you need to be able to stand up for yourself. In fact, Biden came across as being in the worst of both worlds - he didn't push back so forcefully that you thought he can defend himself against the bullies but he made enough cutting remarks to come across a genial Ronald Reagan style character.
In fact, even though it may not be obvious now and it hasn't been commented on much, I think the debate has undermined one of Biden's key subliminal calling cards i.e. that he can restore grace and dignity to the Presidency after Trump's years. After last night's performance, it is going to be hard for him to claim that.
One final point. He may also regret calling Trump a clown. Yes, I know many on him view him as such but a lot of older Americans, particularly military, tend to have the view that "you salute the rank, not the man" (clip here everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTRZRRlA4sw). Now, I don't think diehards will care nor the young but, for a sliver of undecideds, it may be an issue.
The interesting thing is that, just as the polling overall seems to have got better for Trump in the past few days, the Republicans seem to be having jittery nerves over the level of mail-in voting and what that means for the election. There is a question here of how much is being pulled forward and, also, whether it leads to more votes being discounted.
I should be a Trump supporter.
I believe the US has the right to enforce its borders. I think the government should reward those who play by the rules. I think that the pharmaceutical companies have trampled over successive governments. My business benefits from the excellent regulatory framework in Republican Arizona. I believe in a small government.
And I was also the first on here, I think, to call a Trump victory on election night in 2016.
(My post to Facebook on the day of the election last year was sharing an article on how it would be OK if Trump won.)
But over the past two years, I've moved to deeply despise President Trump.
Ultimately, only one thing matters in a democracy - a willingness to accept the verdict of the voters.
One of my favourite sayings is "better a good system than a great person". The US has a good system, with checks and balances enshrined in the separation of powers.
Democratic norms have been undermined by President Trump. And that weakens the American system.
I think of it like the marshmallow test. It's better not to get the policies that you think are right, but maintain the system, than to get the policies you want but undermine the system.
This sums up my position completely. I have long despised the man, but grew to despise the entire federal GOP slate when they failed to rein in Trump's attacks on the institutions of democracy. Regardless of policies, Trump is a danger to democracy, and the Congressional GOP are not fit for purpose as a check and balance.
Ok, so we have had a lot on here about how Trump and the GOP undermine the electoral system.
But who on here has commented on this and do they think it's acceptable?
That might not be the case but are you saying therefore that the actual tape has been in some way doctored and / or the guy is not speaking those words?
Honestly, interested to know.
Honestly, I've absolutely no idea in this era of fake news and the ability to doctor stuff. But I guess it's just coincidence that Project Veritas (ha) is going after Ilhan Omar, the bete noir of the racist right.
Oh, they definitely want to take Omar down, no doubt about that. And, as I said to Not-on-Fire, all voter fraud is wrong, whoever it is done by.
It is just this whole "we're against Trump, so therefore we are holier than thou" garbage that gets me. Look, just come out and say it - if you believe voter fraud is justified in the higher cause of getting rid of Trump, then just be honest about it.
Voter fraud is never justified, and the government (both State and Federal) should devote proper resources to making sure it is tracked down and prosecuted to the greatest extent possible.
Usually it is the opposition claiming the government is rigging things, because it is - after all - the government that has the power.
This time is it is the government claiming the opposition is rigging it.
Don't you think that's just a bit odd? And it would also be very easy to verify if there were serious problems.
Instead we get the President claiming it's all rigged. Don't you think that's deeply fucked up?
I do think it is f*cked up but my view is this along the lines of trying to show "both sides are bad as each other" and depress turnout. The Democrats claim Trump is gutting USPS to stop postal voting and Trump claims the mail-in ballot system is flawed.
Both sides use hyperbole to push their agenda.
Slightly off track but let me ask this. When Nancy Pelosi said Republicans are "Domestic Enemies", did you think that was justified talk?
Yes - by not voting to convict and remove Trump when given the opportunity they are complicit in his crimes.
I'm just catching up on things at the moment as I've had a rather busy day. Given what I've heard second-hand about events from the other Mr Rook, here's where I think we are.
I'm more convinced than ever that the pandemic hit the UK so hard largely because of mass seeding of the disease into the country by people returning from foreign holidays. It's the best explanation for why, as Whitty reportedly confirmed today, the spread of Covid through the UK in March/April was far more uniform than in other comparable states.
During the initial peak, all regions of the country suffered significantly, although London was of course hit harder than everywhere else, including other major urban centres. That's probably largely attributable to Hooray Henries and Henriettas from the weathier parts of the Home Counties coming back from Plague-infested Alpine ski resorts and spreading it through our squalid, cattle truck commuter transit system on the way into their City offices.
Then, as we moved past the peak, there was a window for further disease importation after people stopped taking holidays en masse, but before the Government temporarily imposed quarantine for all incoming travellers from abroad. IIRC much of the remaining air passenger traffic in and out of the UK during that period was in the form of family reunion flights to and from the Indian subcontinent. That would certainly help to explain why so many of the early hotspot locations where the virus began to flare up again were locations with large South Asian diaspora communities.
Now that we're moving into Autumn and, for whatever reason (crap weather? schools going back?) the spread of the disease has become more general, we're getting a pattern more like that seen in some continental countries during both this wave and the first, with substantial numbers of cases in some areas and modest, minor or no increases in others, with the dominant theme appearing to be a more general propagation of the virus through areas of densely-packed, lower-quality housing. Hence the fact that much of South Wales presently finds itself being immolated in a Covid-19 dumpster fire, whilst the disease is still vanishingly rare in, for example, East Devon. The best those of us in lower-risk areas can hope for is that we continue to track what's happening in France and Spain, that the rate of increase in the number of cases therefore slows down, and it remains stubbornly persistent only in certain areas (so that, from a purely selfish point of view, we're allowed to get on with life without being throttled by ever-escalating restrictions.)
What I'm afraid will actually happen is that students will be to the Autumn what holidaymakers were to the Spring, seed new outbreaks here, there and everywhere, and give the Government the pretext to do what I'm still convinced they want to do and order a complete national lockdown. But we shall see.
The pattern of further seeding in August also had an element of holiday in it - except August foreign holidays are a more egalitarian affair. So, a second bump into northern towns, but also a low incidence appeared from nowhere in the shires. Isolation in northern less office based cities was less good and the weather a bit colder, so spread took hold more in the north. Places with a domestic holiday industry (and seasonal work) were less affected.
Summer holidays are considerably more outdoorsy than winter holidays, unless you are under 25 and go out clubbing every night and only stagger out of bed after midday, which is exactly the age group with peak Corona in August.
From the WSJ - About 73.1 million people watched Tuesday night’s presidential debate… Viewership of the debate was 13% lower than for the first presidential debate of the 2016 election cycle
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/sep/23/quaden-bayles-and-family-to-receive-close-to-200000-in-damages-in-settlement-with-miranda-devine
Honestly, interested to know.
Not sure what basis you are saying the polling has been getting better for Trump? Most polling is largely unchanged from August and shows Trump behind - and recent polls have him 10 points behind in Pennsylvania. I think Florida is the only state where you can make a credible case that his position has improved, and that's not enough. Certainly no one is talking about Trump picking up Minnesota anymore - on current polling if there are any surprise flips they are more likely to be negative for Trump - Georgia, Texas, Ohio.
The debate last night was one of Trump's last chances to shake up the race, so quite why he went in with a strategy that would secure - at best - a messy draw is beyond me.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/26/1_in_5_ballots_rejected_as_fraud_is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html?fbclid=IwAR1BbOC7oJ8oyTqbVwPwNUrI6ujY2iJLdyuTe5q3US55Y0lRtnIwQWBH7E4
Do you think that voting fraud is widespread or has ever had a significant effect on a POTUS election?
Do you think Trump has the right to reject the election result?
Said person should be going to prison. (And, indeed, there have been people who've gone to prison for breach of electoral law in the last few years.)
The Federal Election Commission is under the control of the President.
It's pretty easy to find out if the system has been genuinely abused. Select 100 postal ballots at random. Then find out if said person actually voted, and in the correct way. You can do this in individual states. And you can find pretty easily if there are places where there are problems.
Is President Trump doing this?
No.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/30/us/mccrae-dowless-indictment.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ne4zhPYAZK8G867D1Iz0Gg2ZJFLGmF2K/view
As I said, I'm not putting bets on this because I don't feel comfortable enough and I say that as someone who made money on it in 2016.
Will you now say the same thing?
It is just this whole "we're against Trump, so therefore we are holier than thou" garbage that gets me. Look, just come out and say it - if you believe voter fraud is justified in the higher cause of getting rid of Trump, then just be honest about it.
And I'm pleased you agree with me that Project Veritas's primary motivation is to take Ilhan Omar down.
I think one thing people have to get over on here (and sorry for the generalisation and definitely not aimed at you @rcs1000 is that, if you vote for Trump, you think the man can do no wrong and is an absolute legend and genius. He's not and he has plenty of faults. Why he didn't condemn racists more fully is just plain stupid and wrong. However, in a choice, my view is he is better than the other choice on offer. Simple as that.
Having a small set of rules that are applied nationally will make it much easier for everyone to follow them, and hopefully each rule level will be a superset of the lower level to keep it simpler still.
This is a sensible and appropriate change to deal with a problem that has emerged. We ought to applaud such changes not criticise them.
Usually it is the opposition claiming the government is rigging things, because it is - after all - the government that has the power.
This time is it is the government claiming the opposition is rigging it.
Don't you think that's just a bit odd? And it would also be very easy to verify if there were serious problems.
Instead we get the President claiming it's all rigged. Don't you think that's deeply fucked up?
No you don't.
Perhaps you should consider giving Tegnell another call?
NEW THREAD
My point is, when people say 'wartime leader' Chamberlain is not ususally who thay have in mind.
A vote for Trump is a vote for a massive racist who's massively increased the deficit.
Both sides use hyperbole to push their agenda.
Slightly off track but let me ask this. When Nancy Pelosi said Republicans are "Domestic Enemies", did you think that was justified talk?
It helps deflect from the racism of your preferred choice.
https://covid.joinzoe.com/data
If this continues it will max at around 250k, compared with over 2m in April.