Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
The Tories got 43.6% at GE19, they are on 40% today, a small swing to Starmer Labour yes but hardly losing millions across the country on a 1997 scale
We're not at 2024 yet and this is today's news, it's not going to be in the polling. Hand on heart, this is the first time in my voting life I won't be voting Tory if Boris is still there. I couldn't bring myself to support the party any more.
Backsliding on international agreements is a really, really bad look for any government. It's what people expect from China, not the UK. What's your personal view on it?
And this is why we get screwed over. The French and the rest of Europe are more than content to backslide if it's in their interests. But us? Oh no we're English it wouldn't be the done thing for us to do what every civilised country elsewhere does too.
Whatever people have done in the past or will do in the future, as mentioned by many posters on here today, when it comes to international law this is not done openly or as a point of pride. This posture belongs to a Trumpian politics that may be short-lived, leaving Britain isolated.
The whole world can see this is a part of Brexit. Any country that has undergone its own independence will have had far bigger ructions than this.
The French cheerfully disregard the rules they've signed up to whenever they want. Do you honestly think that if the French were in our position they wouldn't do the exact same thing?
When Slovakia and the Czech Republic broke away from each other to become independent, did they announce that they would break their agreements and international law?
Actually, the Czechs did violate their breakup agreement with the Slovaks. The two countries agreed that neither would inherit or use the national symbols of Czechoslovakia, but the Czechs decided to keep the Czechoslovak national flag. They claimed not to be in violation of the agreement because they changed the colour tones slightly and used a different length to breadth proportion. The Slovaks didn’t agree and protested, but they decided not to take it further.
So even Government ministers worry about this action.
Yet they do nothing, cowardice
They don’t worry about legality. So they’ll fold.
The only Tory MP who today, both inside and outside Parliament, spoke with any shred of integrity and understanding was Sir Bob Neill.
I would almost add Mrs May to that list of one.
Thank goodness she's not PM anymore.
As you know, I am not a Conservative, but I would happily agree to another 25 years of a Mrs May Government over another 25 days of the Dangerous Brothers (Johnson and Cummings).
That kind of says it all doesn't it?
What it says is despite not approving of Mrs May, she is preferable to Johnson. I am scared stiff as to what Johnson is doing to my country.
Whereas I'm delighted. Considering we have opposing POVs on politics that's quite reasonable.
Boris is shaping up to be the best PM since Thatcher.
Philip - I know you are enjoying this but don't push it too far!
It's not difficult to be fair.
In reverse order: May and Brown were unmitigated disasters. Blair was a reverse Midas, he seemed fine at the time but everything he touched turned to shit. Major was fine but weak. Cameron was good.
So the only question to me is if Boris will end up between Major and Cameron or best of the bunch.
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
The Tories got 43.6% at GE19, they are on 40% today, a small swing to Starmer Labour yes but hardly losing millions across the country on a 1997 scale
We're not at 2024 yet and this is today's news, it's not going to be in the polling. Hand on heart, this is the first time in my voting life I won't be voting Tory if Boris is still there. I couldn't bring myself to support the party any more.
Backsliding on international agreements is a really, really bad look for any government. It's what people expect from China, not the UK. What's your personal view on it?
And this is why we get screwed over. The French and the rest of Europe are more than content to backslide if it's in their interests. But us? Oh no we're English it wouldn't be the done thing for us to do what every civilised country elsewhere does too.
Whatever people have done in the past or will do in the future, as mentioned by many posters on here today, when it comes to international law this is not done openly or as a point of pride. This posture belongs to a Trumpian politics that may be short-lived, leaving Britain isolated.
The whole world can see this is a part of Brexit. Any country that has undergone its own independence will have had far bigger ructions than this.
The French cheerfully disregard the rules they've signed up to whenever they want. Do you honestly think that if the French were in our position they wouldn't do the exact same thing?
When Slovakia and the Czech Republic broke away from each other to become independent, did they announce that they would break their agreements and international law?
Well it kills another argument against Scottish Independence. That they would have to take on their fair share of assets and liabilities (including national debt) post independence.
But then of course as usual you presumably have no problem with that, being a supporter of Scottish Independence. The fact that the current UK govt would is a matter of supreme indifference to you. They're basically your useful idiots.
In the end HMG didn't make that argument against Scottish Independence in 2014. Of course the current bunch aren't bound by the commitments of previous governments or leaders, as Eck and Nicola would agree. The current bunch don't seem that bound by their own commitments, mind..
'Treasury promises to honour UK debts up to date of Scottish independence'
Does anyone share my view that there might conceivably be a problem in the relationship between Boris and Carrie Symonds? She seems to have been almost totally invisible since the couple first moved into No.10 and I don't even recall the customary Press pictures when they left for or returned from their recent holiday in Scotland. I'm probably entirely wrong of course, but it all just seems a tad strange.
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
The Tories got 43.6% at GE19, they are on 40% today, a small swing to Starmer Labour yes but hardly losing millions across the country on a 1997 scale
We're not at 2024 yet and this is today's news, it's not going to be in the polling. Hand on heart, this is the first time in my voting life I won't be voting Tory if Boris is still there. I couldn't bring myself to support the party any more.
Backsliding on international agreements is a really, really bad look for any government. It's what people expect from China, not the UK. What's your personal view on it?
And this is why we get screwed over. The French and the rest of Europe are more than content to backslide if it's in their interests. But us? Oh no we're English it wouldn't be the done thing for us to do what every civilised country elsewhere does too.
Whatever people have done in the past or will do in the future, as mentioned by many posters on here today, when it comes to international law this is not done openly or as a point of pride. This posture belongs to a Trumpian politics that may be short-lived, leaving Britain isolated.
The whole world can see this is a part of Brexit. Any country that has undergone its own independence will have had far bigger ructions than this.
The French cheerfully disregard the rules they've signed up to whenever they want. Do you honestly think that if the French were in our position they wouldn't do the exact same thing?
When Slovakia and the Czech Republic broke away from each other to become independent, did they announce that they would break their agreements and international law?
Well it kills another argument against Scottish Independence. That they would have to take on their fair share of assets and liabilities (including national debt) post independence.
But then of course as usual you presumably have no problem with that, being a supporter of Scottish Independence. The fact that the current UK govt would is a matter of supreme indifference to you. They're basically your useful idiots.
In the end HMG didn't make that argument against Scottish Independence in 2014. Of course the current bunch aren't bound by the commitments of previous governments or leaders, as Eck and Nicola would agree. The current bunch don't seem that bound by their own commitments, mind..
'Treasury promises to honour UK debts up to date of Scottish independence'
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
From Metro, is unclear, are they going to try and keep pubs open but somewhat ask only groups of 6 or less to form together? That isn't going to fly in anywhere but country pubs that you go to get a sunday lunch.
Nate's a bit behind the curve on this one. A few days ago on here I had already (rather predictably) bashed my head against a brick wall trying to persuade HYUFD of exactly the same point.
I think the Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona and NE-2 pick-up option is increasingly looking like Biden's bottom line if the polls turn against him a bit henceforth. Just as good a chance now for Biden as Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennysylvania in my view.
The relatively unknown quantity in all this is NE-2. It's incredible given its potential importance that there have been just two polls in NE-2 all year. By contrast there have already been 9 conducted in Wisconsin with fieldwork in September.
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts and music worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some areas, debt or not.
Perhaps this is going to be their opportunity to u-turn on furlough scheme without losing face, by claiming it will continue for industries effected by the reimposed measures.
The Labour narrative of the next five years is going to be to attempt to do what the Tories did from 2008, 2008 onwards was Labour crashed the car, Labour is going to try incompetence is holding Britain back
Being at capacity means it is on the verge of collapse? A bit of a stretch!
It means it is unable to cope with a further increase in demand. Yes.
But collapse implies it will cease functioning. I don't think that's the case here.
If the hospitals are "at capacity" and you or I had a heart attack and could not be seen then we would consider it to have collapsed. That was very much the situation in Italy at the height of the pandemic. It does not mean absolutely no one receives a service. Just that it cannot cope with demand. That is how I understand it anyways.
The Labour narrative of the next five years is going to be to attempt to do what the Tories did from 2008, 2008 onwards was Labour crashed the car, Labour is going to try incompetence is holding Britain back
Being at capacity means it is on the verge of collapse? A bit of a stretch!
It means it is unable to cope with a further increase in demand. Yes.
But collapse implies it will cease functioning. I don't think that's the case here.
If the hospitals are "at capacity" and you or I had a heart attack and could not be seen then we would consider it to have collapsed. That was very much the situation in Italy at the height of the pandemic. It does not mean absolutely no one receives a service. Just that it cannot cope with demand. That is how I understand it anyways.
Seems an odd word to use in that situation. When a building collapses it is not usable, but when a health service does it is?
Nate's a bit behind the curve on this one. A few days ago on here I had already (rather predictably) bashed my head against a brick wall trying to persuade HYUFD of exactly the same point.
I think the Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona and NE-2 pick-up option is increasingly looking like Biden's bottom line if the polls turn against him a bit henceforth. Just as good a chance now for Biden as Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennysylvania in my view.
The relatively unknown quantity in all this is NE-2. It's incredible given its potential importance that there have been just two polls in NE-2 all year. By contrast there have already been 9 conducted in Wisconsin with fieldwork in September.
I don't think I have ever disagreed Wisconsin and Michigan are key must win states for both Biden and Trump
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
The Tories got 43.6% at GE19, they are on 40% today, a small swing to Starmer Labour yes but hardly losing millions across the country on a 1997 scale
We're not at 2024 yet and this is today's news, it's not going to be in the polling. Hand on heart, this is the first time in my voting life I won't be voting Tory if Boris is still there. I couldn't bring myself to support the party any more.
Backsliding on international agreements is a really, really bad look for any government. It's what people expect from China, not the UK. What's your personal view on it?
And this is why we get screwed over. The French and the rest of Europe are more than content to backslide if it's in their interests. But us? Oh no we're English it wouldn't be the done thing for us to do what every civilised country elsewhere does too.
Whatever people have done in the past or will do in the future, as mentioned by many posters on here today, when it comes to international law this is not done openly or as a point of pride. This posture belongs to a Trumpian politics that may be short-lived, leaving Britain isolated.
The whole world can see this is a part of Brexit. Any country that has undergone its own independence will have had far bigger ructions than this.
The French cheerfully disregard the rules they've signed up to whenever they want. Do you honestly think that if the French were in our position they wouldn't do the exact same thing?
When Slovakia and the Czech Republic broke away from each other to become independent, did they announce that they would break their agreements and international law?
Well it kills another argument against Scottish Independence. That they would have to take on their fair share of assets and liabilities (including national debt) post independence.
But then of course as usual you presumably have no problem with that, being a supporter of Scottish Independence. The fact that the current UK govt would is a matter of supreme indifference to you. They're basically your useful idiots.
In the end HMG didn't make that argument against Scottish Independence in 2014. Of course the current bunch aren't bound by the commitments of previous governments or leaders, as Eck and Nicola would agree. The current bunch don't seem that bound by their own commitments, mind..
'Treasury promises to honour UK debts up to date of Scottish independence'
Not sure that's quite right. They expected Scotland to take on a share of the debt. But they said they'd guarantee them if they refused.
They said they'd guarantee it 'in all circumstances', not sure how much more unequivocal you can get than that. Anyhoo, now it's different players, different ground, different rules to a degree.
Nate's a bit behind the curve on this one. A few days ago on here I had already (rather predictably) bashed my head against a brick wall trying to persuade HYUFD of exactly the same point.
I think the Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona and NE-2 pick-up option is increasingly looking like Biden's bottom line if the polls turn against him a bit henceforth. Just as good a chance now for Biden as Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennysylvania in my view.
The relatively unknown quantity in all this is NE-2. It's incredible given its potential importance that there have been just two polls in NE-2 all year. By contrast there have already been 9 conducted in Wisconsin with fieldwork in September.
There was an interview with Trump's new Campaign Manager who said one of the things he is very encouraged by is their internal polling showing an increasing number of people in AZ and NV who see Biden as "very liberal".
By the way, how are you doing these days @Cyclefree? I seem to recall you were very down with the whole lockdown thing. Life a little better now hopefully?
Just a random post (I like to lurk), but a definite shout of to @Cyclefree 's articles - really enjoy them - I thought the 'fisking' one was very good. I too saw your comments earlier in the year and would like to say the articles are definitely appreciated and always give me something to ponder - should have said at the time.
Only registered to say this.... now back to a lurking like a fish in muddy water
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
The Tories got 43.6% at GE19, they are on 40% today, a small swing to Starmer Labour yes but hardly losing millions across the country on a 1997 scale
We're not at 2024 yet and this is today's news, it's not going to be in the polling. Hand on heart, this is the first time in my voting life I won't be voting Tory if Boris is still there. I couldn't bring myself to support the party any more.
Backsliding on international agreements is a really, really bad look for any government. It's what people expect from China, not the UK. What's your personal view on it?
And this is why we get screwed over. The French and the rest of Europe are more than content to backslide if it's in their interests. But us? Oh no we're English it wouldn't be the done thing for us to do what every civilised country elsewhere does too.
Whatever people have done in the past or will do in the future, as mentioned by many posters on here today, when it comes to international law this is not done openly or as a point of pride. This posture belongs to a Trumpian politics that may be short-lived, leaving Britain isolated.
The whole world can see this is a part of Brexit. Any country that has undergone its own independence will have had far bigger ructions than this.
The French cheerfully disregard the rules they've signed up to whenever they want. Do you honestly think that if the French were in our position they wouldn't do the exact same thing?
When Slovakia and the Czech Republic broke away from each other to become independent, did they announce that they would break their agreements and international law?
Well it kills another argument against Scottish Independence. That they would have to take on their fair share of assets and liabilities (including national debt) post independence.
But then of course as usual you presumably have no problem with that, being a supporter of Scottish Independence. The fact that the current UK govt would is a matter of supreme indifference to you. They're basically your useful idiots.
In the end HMG didn't make that argument against Scottish Independence in 2014. Of course the current bunch aren't bound by the commitments of previous governments or leaders, as Eck and Nicola would agree. The current bunch don't seem that bound by their own commitments, mind..
'Treasury promises to honour UK debts up to date of Scottish independence'
Not sure that's quite right. They expected Scotland to take on a share of the debt. But they said they'd guarantee them if they refused.
They said they'd guarantee it 'in all circumstances', not sure how much more unequivocal you can get than that. Anyhoo, now it's different players, different ground, different rules to a degree.
Well fair enough. I read it as a guarantee in the sense of underwriting it. Banks underwriting debts don't necessarily usually expect to have to pay them.
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
So you can have one table of 6 people. Or 2 tables of 3 or 4 + 2.
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
I ask again. What is the strategy? We were told it was to save the NHS from being swamped and to flatten the peak. This has been achieved at stunning cost to the economy, people's non-covid health and so on.
Now ministers have gone straight into panic mode from an mild uptick. Yet as a % of tests the cases are low, and the hospital cases are very low. The NHS sounds virtually empty to me.
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
This is what peipleile Philip and HYFUD don't understand, both of us are about as leave as it gets and both of us are naturally conservative, if Boris can't win our votes then he's in serious trouble.
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
So you can have one table of 6 people. Or 2 tables of 3 or 4 + 2.
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
As they are a household why would they be split up?
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
So you can have one table of 6 people. Or 2 tables of 3 or 4 + 2.
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
Says at the bottom of metro about one household if more than 6 is fine.
With the number of people saying they won't vote Tory if Boris is leader, maybe Boris should spend the next three years doing everything he wants to do with his 80 seat majority; fully reset our relations with Europe, set a platform for going forwards, then hand over to Sunak in three years time.
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
Boris lost me today
How could any conservative PM seek to break an international treaty
By the way, how are you doing these days @Cyclefree? I seem to recall you were very down with the whole lockdown thing. Life a little better now hopefully?
Just a random post (I like to lurk), but a definite shout of to @Cyclefree 's articles - really enjoy them - I thought the 'fisking' one was very good. I too saw your comments earlier in the year and would like to say the articles are definitely appreciated and always give me something to ponder - should have said at the time.
Only registered to say this.... now back to a lurking like a fish in muddy water
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
I ask again. What is the strategy? We were told it was to save the NHS from being swamped and to flatten the peak. This has been achieved at stunning cost to the economy, people's non-covid health and so on.
Now ministers have gone straight into panic mode from an mild uptick. Yet as a % of tests the cases are low, and the hospital cases are very low. The NHS sounds virtually empty to me.
Quite. It's not even as if they are pursuing a strategy of total elimination. Totally unachievable but at least a policy. What did they think was going to happen? That we would somehow bump along at exactly 1000 cases a day for 3 months?
Even the stuff about localisation seems to have gone out of the window? Where is this big nationwide uptick in cases that justifies shutting everything again countrywide?
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
Same. Plus the governemnt as a whole has been an utter shambles
Well if you could cut your articles in half to make basically the same points it would help matters too
When you are editor then you can give me instructions. OGH publishes them because he likes them.
Perhaps you could offer us a header so that we can see the quality of your writing and thought.
I give plenty of my writing on here already, a header would not really add much if you want to do one that is up to you but you made the first insult so don't be surprised if it was returned
You insulted me some time ago and refused to retract despite me asking you to do so. You did it again at the time of the VE celebrations this year. I have simply bided my time for the right opportunity.
I don’t consider your opinion on my headers an insult.
Comments below the line are not remotely comparable to constructing and writing an argument capable of being read by someone with an attention span longer than a gnat.
No doubt an article from you on opinion polls would be of interest to some.
I have never personally insulted you to my knowledge at all, you may disagree with what I have posted but that is not the same thing or my opinion of your views on an issue but that is not the same thing either.
I have too much to do in terms of work and being branch party chairman and in my personal life to research and write lots of article headers here, if you wish to do so fine but posts is all I will do
You have. But since I have now responded to my satisfaction, I consider the matter over.
Fair enough re headers. Not everyone has the time or inclination. One small piece of advice: it is very easy to criticise but much harder to do, something you might bear in mind in future.
"You may abuse a tragedy, though you cannot write one. You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables." Samuel Johnson
To publish anything is to invite criticism, surely? That is rather the point. And most of your headers seem to be about how irredeemably awful something or other is, so I would have thought a sauce for the goose argument applied.
Oh I don’t mind criticism in the slightest. Here I write to provoke and stimulate debate.
On my own blog I write very differently.
Having written a few headers myself, it is difficult to curtail a line of argument, and there is often a need for supporting citations to a point. OGH is great at writing short punchy headers, but it is an art.
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
This is what peipleile Philip and HYFUD don't understand, both of us are about as leave as it gets and both of us are naturally conservative, if Boris can't win our votes then he's in serious trouble.
The Tories are on 40% today with Survation, the gold standard pollster and still ahead of Labour.
Most governments would have killed for that rating.
Yes it would be close if there were an election tomorrow but there is no general election for 4 years
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
This is what peipleile Philip and HYFUD don't understand, both of us are about as leave as it gets and both of us are naturally conservative, if Boris can't win our votes then he's in serious trouble.
I get it, I just don't panic midterm. Even if the polls change and show a Starmer lead.
What's the point of winning an 80 seat majority if you're not going to do what needs to be done, even if it breaks a few eggs? Thatcher was exactly the same and good on her, good on Boris too if he can ride out some bad headlines and not kowtow to every bit of criticism to keep everyone happy.
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
So you can have one table of 6 people. Or 2 tables of 3 or 4 + 2.
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
As they are a household why would they be split up?
How the hell is a restaurant supposed to know if they are from one household? They ring up, asking for a table for 7 for the Smith household? Is this OK or not?
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
This is what peipleile Philip and HYFUD don't understand, both of us are about as leave as it gets and both of us are naturally conservative, if Boris can't win our votes then he's in serious trouble.
I get it, I just don't panic midterm. Even if the polls change and show a Starmer lead.
What's the point of winning an 80 seat majority if you're not going to do what needs to be done, even if it breaks a few eggs? Thatcher was exactly the same and good on her, good on Boris too if he can ride out some bad headlines and not kowtow to every bit of criticism to keep everyone happy.
Yeah, Johnson never changes course because of a few bad headlines.
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
So you can have one table of 6 people. Or 2 tables of 3 or 4 + 2.
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
As they are a household why would they be split up?
How the hell is a restaurant supposed to know if they are from one household? They ring up, asking for a table for 7 for the Smith household? Is this OK or not?
A lot of this is just common sense. You can't expect 100% absolute compliance with all these measures. The idea is that the vast majority comply with them, as with last time.
What the Sam Coates story tells us is that the Chancellor, the Foreign Secretary and the CotDL all together are not as important as Dominic Cummings. It's who he pulls Boris's strings and is the only one he listens to.
Gove is totally comprised by the fact that Cummings was his man and he feels crippled by guilt over felling him so ruthlessly last time. So he weasels away playing games within games instead of acting as he should.
The best way he could win my respect now would be to plunge the knife a second time.
If Starmer drops all of the culture war woke stuff I think I'd be comfortable voting for him. As it stands I don't think I could vote for a party or leader that will allow biological men into women only spaces.
I'm not sure how the British govern their toilets, is the PM in charge of them directly? If so it feels like the kind of decision that could be decentralized
It's part of the gender recognition act, Labour are in favour of self identification which would allow biological males into women's spaces without a recognised gender recognition certificate or operation. It's woke bullshit.
But which bathroom should Buck Angel use ?
Presumably they think Janet Mock should be using the Mens' loo? Perhaps she has a She-Wee ™....
I don't know who these people are, but surely the issue is of self definition vs official recognition?
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
I ask again. What is the strategy? We were told it was to save the NHS from being swamped and to flatten the peak. This has been achieved at stunning cost to the economy, people's non-covid health and so on.
Now ministers have gone straight into panic mode from an mild uptick. Yet as a % of tests the cases are low, and the hospital cases are very low. The NHS sounds virtually empty to me.
Quite. It's not even as if they are pursuing a strategy of total elimination. Totally unachievable but at least a policy. What did they think was going to happen? That we would somehow bump along at exactly 1000 cases a day for 3 months?
Even the stuff about localisation seems to have gone out of the window? Where is this big nationwide uptick in cases that justifies shutting everything again countrywide?
They are all over the place. And I suspect this comes from the very top. Indecision all the way. One day it's back to work, next day it's panic, panic there's a huge wave coming; next day it's we can't carry furlough on, next day it's we are restricting the pubs/concert halls/weddings again and so on and on and on.
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
So you can have one table of 6 people. Or 2 tables of 3 or 4 + 2.
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
As they are a household why would they be split up?
How the hell is a restaurant supposed to know if they are from one household? They ring up, asking for a table for 7 for the Smith household? Is this OK or not?
It's not the restaurant's responsibility to police this any more than it is their responsibility to make sure their customers don't break the speed limit on the way home; it's the customers' responsibility.
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
This is what peipleile Philip and HYFUD don't understand, both of us are about as leave as it gets and both of us are naturally conservative, if Boris can't win our votes then he's in serious trouble.
I get it, I just don't panic midterm. Even if the polls change and show a Starmer lead.
What's the point of winning an 80 seat majority if you're not going to do what needs to be done, even if it breaks a few eggs? Thatcher was exactly the same and good on her, good on Boris too if he can ride out some bad headlines and not kowtow to every bit of criticism to keep everyone happy.
What's the point in being called a conservative if breaking international treaties is what you're going to do. It's what I expect from Corbyn or Farage, not a Tory PM.
The UK is turning into a pariah state, investors are taking fright and our premier industry is worrying about what it means for the future.
They could really jump the shark and replace Boris Johnson with Tony Abbott, followed by Julia Gillard entering UK politics and becoming Labour leader so we can have an Australian-style election to go with our Australian-style trade deal and Australian-style points system.
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
This is what peipleile Philip and HYFUD don't understand, both of us are about as leave as it gets and both of us are naturally conservative, if Boris can't win our votes then he's in serious trouble.
Philip knows. He's intelligent and rational enough to know.
He's just argued himself into a corner on here publicly and pride won't let him revisit it.
Breaking international law and acting in bad faith simply isn't British. Maintaining that core value under *all circumstances* is more important to me than anything else.
They could really jump the shark and replace Boris Johnson with Tony Abbott, followed by Julia Gillard entering UK politics and becoming Labour leader so we can have an Australian-style election to go with our Australian-style trade deal and Australian-style points system.
The data throughout the country must looking really bad if the government have effectively abandoned the idea of containment via local lockdown.
It's probably partly because the testing isn't able to keep up. The government hasn't rolled out rapid testing quickly enough to schools. If it had we could keep everything open.
They could really jump the shark and replace Boris Johnson with Tony Abbott, followed by Julia Gillard entering UK politics and becoming Labour leader so we can have an Australian-style election to go with our Australian-style trade deal and Australian-style points system.
With the number of people saying they won't vote Tory if Boris is leader, maybe Boris should spend the next three years doing everything he wants to do with his 80 seat majority; fully reset our relations with Europe, set a platform for going forwards, then hand over to Sunak in three years time.
I could live with that.
I'm nervous about letting him do everything he wants to do even in the next three weeks. It doesn't take long to destroy things. The announcement today alone has probably done years of damage.
Oooh, what law is the Government breaking, the public will wonder? Mass internment without trial, confiscation of private property, the army allowed to shoot civilians on sight for littering?
What that? They're fiddling with bits of the Brexit legislation relating to the Northern Ireland Protocol? Yes, that's very important I'm surezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......
I can't see freshers sticking to these rules. A load of horny 18/19 year olds away from home for the first time and you are going to tell them to only socialise with their flatmates. Aint going to hold for very long.
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
This is what peipleile Philip and HYFUD don't understand, both of us are about as leave as it gets and both of us are naturally conservative, if Boris can't win our votes then he's in serious trouble.
I get it, I just don't panic midterm. Even if the polls change and show a Starmer lead.
What's the point of winning an 80 seat majority if you're not going to do what needs to be done, even if it breaks a few eggs? Thatcher was exactly the same and good on her, good on Boris too if he can ride out some bad headlines and not kowtow to every bit of criticism to keep everyone happy.
What's the point in being called a conservative if breaking international treaties is what you're going to do. It's what I expect from Corbyn or Farage, not a Tory PM.
The UK is turning into a pariah state, investors are taking fright and our premier industry is worrying about what it means for the future.
"Pariah state"
You're exaggerating. France, the EU, the USA all do as we are doing. Are they "pariah states"?
If Scotland votes No, will there be another referendum on independence at a later date?
The Edinburgh Agreement states that a referendum must be held by the end of 2014. There is no arrangement in place for another referendum on independence.
It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent.
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
So you can have one table of 6 people. Or 2 tables of 3 or 4 + 2.
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
As they are a household why would they be split up?
How the hell is a restaurant supposed to know if they are from one household? They ring up, asking for a table for 7 for the Smith household? Is this OK or not?
It's not the restaurant's responsibility to police this any more than it is their responsibility to make sure their customers don't break the speed limit on the way home; it's the customers' responsibility.
A restaurant cannot take that risk. What this means is that it will take bookings for no more than 6 people at one table.
As I understand it restaurants will still be open, it's only larger gatherings that are being restricted.
My point is that subsidising socialising was a policy that stoked this latest mess. We spent money to get here.
It's been demonstrated that it's been spreading primarily in restaurants?
Nope. But the point of the policy was to get society comfortable getting out and about and spending money while socialising, back in the habit so to speak. I given them credit that they achieved that objective, and now we need to act again to undo it.
... Now ministers have gone straight into panic mode from an mild uptick. Yet as a % of tests the cases are low, and the hospital cases are very low. The NHS sounds virtually empty to me.
I know that Labour and various Lefties have, for decades, campaigned on the memes of "24hrs to save the NHS" or "Stop the Tories killing the NHS", but it seems like the NHS has killed itself off in many areas of the country.
Empty hospitals, empty GPs and apparently they must stay that way "... because of COVID". In many places, there is no Health Service any more.
Never mind Ministers and Govt. The NHS has a passel of questions of its own to answer...
Very interested to see whether we get a typical Boris U-turn under these kind of circumstances, or whether it's Cummings-protected territory.
Either way, it ensures another few weeks of bad headlines and more erosion of support.
You think the UK government standing up for the UK is a bad headline? Interesting.
UK government breaks law is a very, very poor headline. Even my fairly staunchly conservative dad has been pretty concerned about this latest turn of events, he was a member for 35 years and has voted Conservative since he was of voting age. If they're losing his vote to Starmer "he seems to be more reasonable" then the party is in serious trouble. He voted Tory in 1997, Boris is losing his vote with this stuff. I've already decided not to vote Tory if Boris leads the party into the next election, but I admit my vote is atypical, but my dad is basically core middle England aspirational working class voter personified. Losing his vote means Boris is losing millions elsewhere in the country.
I'm not voting Tory if Boris is leader at the next election either.
This is what peipleile Philip and HYFUD don't understand, both of us are about as leave as it gets and both of us are naturally conservative, if Boris can't win our votes then he's in serious trouble.
I get it, I just don't panic midterm. Even if the polls change and show a Starmer lead.
What's the point of winning an 80 seat majority if you're not going to do what needs to be done, even if it breaks a few eggs? Thatcher was exactly the same and good on her, good on Boris too if he can ride out some bad headlines and not kowtow to every bit of criticism to keep everyone happy.
What's the point in being called a conservative if breaking international treaties is what you're going to do. It's what I expect from Corbyn or Farage, not a Tory PM.
The UK is turning into a pariah state, investors are taking fright and our premier industry is worrying about what it means for the future.
"Pariah state"
You're exaggerating. France, the EU, the USA all do as we are doing. Are they "pariah states"?
No indoors or outdoors, so i guess that means restarting of attending sports and arts in person is now off again.
Social gatherings of more than 6 both indoors and outdoors to be banned from Monday Boris to announce tomorrow in private homes, pubs, restaurants and even the park so yes that also means an end to live audiences for sports and arts and weddings of more than 6. Fines of £100 for breach.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
This is a disaster for the sports, arts, music, and hospitality worlds, just at the moment the furlough scheme is ending. If the government is re-imposing measures, it's going to reasonably come under pressure to change its policy in at least some of these professional areas, debt or not.
So you can have one table of 6 people. Or 2 tables of 3 or 4 + 2.
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
As they are a household why would they be split up?
How the hell is a restaurant supposed to know if they are from one household? They ring up, asking for a table for 7 for the Smith household? Is this OK or not?
It's not the restaurant's responsibility to police this any more than it is their responsibility to make sure their customers don't break the speed limit on the way home; it's the customers' responsibility.
A restaurant cannot take that risk. What this means is that it will take bookings for no more than 6 people at one table.
To be honest, i thought they were doing that anyway. Certainly that was the case in a lot of pubs when they first opened, although maybe the rules have been relaxed since then?
Does anyone share my view that there might conceivably be a problem in the relationship between Boris and Carrie Symonds? She seems to have been almost totally invisible since the couple first moved into No.10 and I don't even recall the customary Press pictures when they left for or returned from their recent holiday in Scotland. I'm probably entirely wrong of course, but it all just seems a tad strange.
This smells rather as if the government are trying to do the opposite of what they did at the beginning of the last rise in the spring, when they were accused of acting too slowly and not doing enough.
From drift, dithering and the perception of incompetence, back to decisiveness, Cummings and No.10 maybe hope.
Comments
In reverse order:
May and Brown were unmitigated disasters.
Blair was a reverse Midas, he seemed fine at the time but everything he touched turned to shit.
Major was fine but weak.
Cameron was good.
So the only question to me is if Boris will end up between Major and Cameron or best of the bunch.
Have invited 30 to our wedding next March and livestreaming for the rest so hopefully will have ended by then otherwise we will livestream for virtually everyone bar parents
'Treasury promises to honour UK debts up to date of Scottish independence'
https://tinyurl.com/j5lpx8y
I think the Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona and NE-2 pick-up option is increasingly looking like Biden's bottom line if the polls turn against him a bit henceforth. Just as good a chance now for Biden as Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennysylvania in my view.
The relatively unknown quantity in all this is NE-2. It's incredible given its potential importance that there have been just two polls in NE-2 all year. By contrast there have already been 9 conducted in Wisconsin with fieldwork in September.
That was very much the situation in Italy at the height of the pandemic.
It does not mean absolutely no one receives a service.
Just that it cannot cope with demand.
That is how I understand it anyways.
Just a random post (I like to lurk), but a definite shout of to @Cyclefree 's articles - really enjoy them - I thought the 'fisking' one was very good. I too saw your comments earlier in the year and would like to say the articles are definitely appreciated and always give me something to ponder - should have said at the time.
Only registered to say this.... now back to a lurking like a fish in muddy water
James
What about a family of 7? Are they meant to split up?
Now ministers have gone straight into panic mode from an mild uptick. Yet as a % of tests the cases are low, and the hospital cases are very low. The NHS sounds virtually empty to me.
not sure how much more unequivocal you can get than that.
I could live with that.
How could any conservative PM seek to break an international treaty
Shameful
Only registered to say this.... now back to a lurking like a fish in muddy water
James
Thank you very much. Really appreciate this.
Even the stuff about localisation seems to have gone out of the window? Where is this big nationwide uptick in cases that justifies shutting everything again countrywide?
https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1303443415808520193
Twat.
Most governments would have killed for that rating.
Yes it would be close if there were an election tomorrow but there is no general election for 4 years
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1303356183508668419?s=20
What's the point of winning an 80 seat majority if you're not going to do what needs to be done, even if it breaks a few eggs? Thatcher was exactly the same and good on her, good on Boris too if he can ride out some bad headlines and not kowtow to every bit of criticism to keep everyone happy.
BBC News - Coronavirus: Social gatherings above six banned in England from 14 September
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54081131
Gove is totally comprised by the fact that Cummings was his man and he feels crippled by guilt over felling him so ruthlessly last time. So he weasels away playing games within games instead of acting as he should.
The best way he could win my respect now would be to plunge the knife a second time.
Plus one household of 7.
And Track and Test continues to be world beating.
The UK is turning into a pariah state, investors are taking fright and our premier industry is worrying about what it means for the future.
(*Ok first-world problem, I know)
He's just argued himself into a corner on here publicly and pride won't let him revisit it.
Breaking international law and acting in bad faith simply isn't British. Maintaining that core value under *all circumstances* is more important to me than anything else.
If we lose our honour we are nothing.
Now it's panic time again.
This is now.
He reminds me of Commodus.
Huge headline, massive splash!
Oooh, what law is the Government breaking, the public will wonder? Mass internment without trial, confiscation of private property, the army allowed to shoot civilians on sight for littering?
What that? They're fiddling with bits of the Brexit legislation relating to the Northern Ireland Protocol? Yes, that's very important I'm surezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......
You're exaggerating. France, the EU, the USA all do as we are doing. Are they "pariah states"?
Then again, with this government, who knows?
The Edinburgh Agreement states that a referendum must be held by the end of 2014. There is no arrangement in place for another referendum on independence.
It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent.
Empty hospitals, empty GPs and apparently they must stay that way "... because of COVID". In many places, there is no Health Service any more.
Never mind Ministers and Govt. The NHS has a passel of questions of its own to answer...
From drift, dithering and the perception of incompetence, back to decisiveness, Cummings and No.10 maybe hope.