Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Undefined discussion subject.

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited August 2020 in General
Undefined discussion subject.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Quiet day..
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited August 2020
    First.

    Edit - Ok fake news first.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    The herd are being irrational. There is a false consensus that it will be close and that Trump has a good chance. Great news for the rest of us.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,595
    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Odd and sloppy use of language on the 538 site -

    Their model gives Biden a 70% chance of winning - i.e. according to them he is well over twice as likely to win as Trump at 30%.

    Which in their header they denote as Biden being slightly favoured to win.
  • Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    HYUFD said:
    I'll give you some of those states - although the state polling in places like Wisconsin turned out to be pants last time.


    But according to RCP
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/

    Clinton's lead on August 24 2016 was 4.0% not 5.4%, and Biden's on 24 August 2020 was 7.8% not 7.6%. Not going to check the accuracy of the other figures.

    But that Wisconsin Trafalgar poll is just one poll, against all the others showing Biden leading. Cherry-picking.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Andy_JS said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
    The only extraordinary thing is that anybody at all would vote for what is happening in American cities right now. Or what has happened in American cities under democrat control for decades.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    Yes, not sure I understand that really, as I would think Trump would agree with all of your stated views. You are most definitely Trumpian, and were you American I am sure you would be enthusiastically voting for him.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    Twelve more years? :D
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Andy_JS said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
    The only extraordinary thing is that anybody at all would vote for what is happening in American cities right now. Or what has happened in American cities under democrat control for decades.
    Things don't look great in NYC; it sounds like people are voting with their feet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Andy_JS said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
    I think you mean the peaceful protests happening a a city near them...
    https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1298264945323171844
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,595
    kinabalu said:

    Odd and sloppy use of language on the 538 site -

    Their model gives Biden a 70% chance of winning - i.e. according to them he is well over twice as likely to win as Trump at 30%.

    Which in their header they denote as Biden being slightly favoured to win.

    Ms Clinton was 95% likely to win in 2016 and still lost. A small change in fortunes can turn a 70% chance of winning into a losing position, so maybe it makes sense for them to frame it in that way.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    On topic - as Damien Green observed, this is the Dems to lose and (some of them) are going about it the right way.....

    Meanwhile.....

    https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/1298589035812847616?s=20
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
    The only extraordinary thing is that anybody at all would vote for what is happening in American cities right now. Or what has happened in American cities under democrat control for decades.
    Things don't look great in NYC; it sounds like people are voting with their feet.
    New York was an amazing city. I used to go twice a year for business. When I saw that video of what Manhattan has turned into, I was totally shocked. I thought the pace was indestructible.

    Its partly covid of course. But COVID does not cause block after block of boarded up shops.

    That's called looting
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    Yes, I get why US liberals hate Trump's domestic policy, his anti immigrant, anti PC rhetoric and promise to build walls with Mexico and his failure to do much about racism, particularly in the police

    I also get why free trade supporters dislike his tariffs and trade wars and economic policy.

    I fail to get however why those who oppose US overseas wars hate him given he has started no new wars or invaded or bombed no new countries and even been willing to meet with Kim Jong Un.

    On international policy he is the least interventionist US President overseas since Jimmy Carter
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll give you some of those states - although the state polling in places like Wisconsin turned out to be pants last time.


    But according to RCP
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/

    Clinton's lead on August 24 2016 was 4.0% not 5.4%, and Biden's on 24 August 2020 was 7.8% not 7.6%. Not going to check the accuracy of the other figures.

    But that Wisconsin Trafalgar poll is just one poll, against all the others showing Biden leading. Cherry-picking.
    In 2016 Trafalgar Group was the only state pollster that had Trump winning Michigan and Pennsylvania, they cannot be ignored
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    The problem is that he seems deranged, and becoming more so the longer he is in office, which is a bit of a worry when he is the most powerful person in the world.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    Yes, I get why US liberals hate Trump's domestic policy, his anti immigrant, anti PC rhetoric and promise to build walls with Mexico and his failure to do much about racism.

    I also get why free trade supporters dislike his tariffs and trade wars and economic policy.

    I fail to get however why those who oppose US overseas wars hate him however given he has started no new wars or invaded or bombed no new countries and even been willing to meet with Kim Jong Un.

    On international policy he is the least interventionist US President overseas since Jimmy Carter
    I sense Trump isn;t really a permanent tariff supporter. He uses tariffs strategically. And actually, it hasn't worked that badly. The Chinese are back at the table. Meanwhile the Russians are sweating badly in my view. Putin's move to 'silence' the opposition leader is not a move from strength.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
    The only extraordinary thing is that anybody at all would vote for what is happening in American cities right now. Or what has happened in American cities under democrat control for decades.
    Things don't look great in NYC; it sounds like people are voting with their feet.
    New York was an amazing city. I used to go twice a year for business. When I saw that video of what Manhattan has turned into, I was totally shocked. I thought the pace was indestructible.

    Its partly covid of course. But COVID does not cause block after block of boarded up shops.

    That's called looting
    Er, Covid does cause boarded up shops, plenty of premises in Glasgow boarded up to keep them secure during lockdown. Though maybe they were fearful of Wokists going on the rampage in their vendetta against statchoos.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
    I think you mean the peaceful protests happening a a city near them...
    https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1298264945323171844
    That's spectacular even by Pool's stamdards. White militia murder two BLM protestors and somehow it is the protestors' fault.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    Yes, I get why US liberals hate Trump's domestic policy, his anti immigrant, anti PC rhetoric and promise to build walls with Mexico and his failure to do much about racism.

    I also get why free trade supporters dislike his tariffs and trade wars and economic policy.

    I fail to get however why those who oppose US overseas wars hate him however given he has started no new wars or invaded or bombed no new countries and even been willing to meet with Kim Jong Un.

    On international policy he is the least interventionist US President overseas since Jimmy Carter
    I sense Trump isn;t really a permanent tariff supporter. He uses tariffs strategically. And actually, it hasn't worked that badly. The Chinese are back at the table. Meanwhile the Russians are sweating badly in my view. Putin's move to 'silence' the opposition leader is not a move from strength.
    There is no strategy behind this. Trump is largely motivated by machismo and trying to get even on long term personal grudges. I suspect his dislike of China is not to do with their oppressive authoritarian government (which he no doubt admires) and is more likely to be something personal, such as them having refused his building of a hotel or suchlike.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    On topic - as Damien Green observed, this is the Dems to lose and (some of them) are going about it the right way.....

    Meanwhile.....

    https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/1298589035812847616?s=20

    GERs day when Kibble Kev tries to forget he said this.

    “Richard finished his piece by saying they can’t tell us what an independent Scotland’s finances would look like. That is, of course, absolutely true.

    What the GERS figures do tell us is, historically, how do Scotland’s revenue and expenditure figures look as an integral part of the UK.

    You said – and it’s a critical phrase – ‘the purpose for which it’s intended’. Nobody suggests that the GERS figures show what a future independent Scotland would look like.”

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
    I think you mean the peaceful protests happening a a city near them...
    https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1298264945323171844
    That's spectacular even by Pool's stamdards. White militia murder two BLM protestors and somehow it is the protestors' fault.
    Natural Dem voter, don't forget.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    This is a great market, lots of dumb money, including people who lucked into a win last time and now think they're smart.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    On topic - as Damien Green observed, this is the Dems to lose and (some of them) are going about it the right way.....

    Meanwhile.....

    https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/1298589035812847616?s=20

    Dominic Green I believe!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    Yes, I get why US liberals hate Trump's domestic policy, his anti immigrant, anti PC rhetoric and promise to build walls with Mexico and his failure to do much about racism.

    I also get why free trade supporters dislike his tariffs and trade wars and economic policy.

    I fail to get however why those who oppose US overseas wars hate him however given he has started no new wars or invaded or bombed no new countries and even been willing to meet with Kim Jong Un.

    On international policy he is the least interventionist US President overseas since Jimmy Carter
    I sense Trump isn;t really a permanent tariff supporter. He uses tariffs strategically. And actually, it hasn't worked that badly. The Chinese are back at the table. Meanwhile the Russians are sweating badly in my view. Putin's move to 'silence' the opposition leader is not a move from strength.
    Incidentally, there is no evidence of Putin "sweating". On the contrary, thanks to the useful idiots in populist and nationalist parties in the West he has achieved many long term goals. America has a weaker foreign policy thanks to Trump allowing that to be so, thereby enabling expansion of Russian interest, and the EU is substantially weakened by Brexit. The UK is likely to be further weakened by its breakup which was enabled by Boris Johnson, who has to be the most inept leader Britain has had in centuries. Putin has many reasons to be cheerful. As he is leader of Russia for life, and probably the richest man in the world, he has lots to be smug about.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll give you some of those states - although the state polling in places like Wisconsin turned out to be pants last time.


    But according to RCP
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/

    Clinton's lead on August 24 2016 was 4.0% not 5.4%, and Biden's on 24 August 2020 was 7.8% not 7.6%. Not going to check the accuracy of the other figures.

    But that Wisconsin Trafalgar poll is just one poll, against all the others showing Biden leading. Cherry-picking.
    In 2016 Trafalgar Group was the only state pollster that had Trump winning Michigan and Pennsylvania, they cannot be ignored
    A bit disingenuous of you: they weren't the closest pollster to the actual result in either state. I don't see any reason to give them any more weight than any other poll.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,595

    This is a great market, lots of dumb money, including people who lucked into a win last time and now think they're smart.

    A good example is that Trump was about 12/1 to win the popular vote a couple of weeks ago IIRC. That was always bound to come down over time, and it's now 5.5.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    Yes, I get why US liberals hate Trump's domestic policy, his anti immigrant, anti PC rhetoric and promise to build walls with Mexico and his failure to do much about racism, particularly in the police

    I also get why free trade supporters dislike his tariffs and trade wars and economic policy.

    I fail to get however why those who oppose US overseas wars hate him however given he has started no new wars or invaded or bombed no new countries and even been willing to meet with Kim Jong Un.

    On international policy he is the least interventionist US President overseas since Jimmy Carter
    He has not started WW3 and is not forever invading the Middle East this is true. Indeed given his (imo very acceptable) policy of avoiding foreign military adventures one wonders why he has spent record sums on the military. Is it because he thinks there's votes in it? Or is it because he likes the idea of owning oodles of high grade killing kit and having lots of soldiers and sailors under his command even though they have bugger all to do? Bit of both maybe.

    And you sell him short on racism. He has not failed to do much about it. He has stoked it and dog whistled to its adherents at every opportunity.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll give you some of those states - although the state polling in places like Wisconsin turned out to be pants last time.


    But according to RCP
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/

    Clinton's lead on August 24 2016 was 4.0% not 5.4%, and Biden's on 24 August 2020 was 7.8% not 7.6%. Not going to check the accuracy of the other figures.

    But that Wisconsin Trafalgar poll is just one poll, against all the others showing Biden leading. Cherry-picking.
    In 2016 Trafalgar Group was the only state pollster that had Trump winning Michigan and Pennsylvania, they cannot be ignored
    Correct, you do not ignore them. You number crunch how reliable they have been at polling in the last 10 or so years and then add them to all the other polls which have also been weighted in a similar way to get a weighted poll of polls average.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    'Great scoop'
    Woodward and Bernstein, look to your laurels!

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1298575537888268290?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    They could even end up PM and Deputy PM in 2024
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Odd and sloppy use of language on the 538 site -

    Their model gives Biden a 70% chance of winning - i.e. according to them he is well over twice as likely to win as Trump at 30%.

    Which in their header they denote as Biden being slightly favoured to win.

    Ms Clinton was 95% likely to win in 2016 and still lost. A small change in fortunes can turn a 70% chance of winning into a losing position, so maybe it makes sense for them to frame it in that way.
    Sure. But 55% is slightly favoured. 70% is clearly favoured.

    I sense it's arse covering and I am marking them down for it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll give you some of those states - although the state polling in places like Wisconsin turned out to be pants last time.


    But according to RCP
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/

    Clinton's lead on August 24 2016 was 4.0% not 5.4%, and Biden's on 24 August 2020 was 7.8% not 7.6%. Not going to check the accuracy of the other figures.

    But that Wisconsin Trafalgar poll is just one poll, against all the others showing Biden leading. Cherry-picking.
    In 2016 Trafalgar Group was the only state pollster that had Trump winning Michigan and Pennsylvania, they cannot be ignored
    A bit disingenuous of you: they weren't the closest pollster to the actual result in either state. I don't see any reason to give them any more weight than any other poll.
    They were the only pollsters who had Trump winning Michigan and Pennsylvania, without those states and Wisconsin Trump would not have won the election.

    Obviously other polls must be looked at too, I am just saying do not ignore Trafalgar Group
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    Yes, I get why US liberals hate Trump's domestic policy, his anti immigrant, anti PC rhetoric and promise to build walls with Mexico and his failure to do much about racism, particularly in the police

    I also get why free trade supporters dislike his tariffs and trade wars and economic policy.

    I fail to get however why those who oppose US overseas wars hate him however given he has started no new wars or invaded or bombed no new countries and even been willing to meet with Kim Jong Un.

    On international policy he is the least interventionist US President overseas since Jimmy Carter
    He has not started WW3 and is not forever invading the Middle East this is true. Indeed given his (imo very acceptable) policy of avoiding foreign military adventures one wonders why he has spent record sums on the military. Is it because he thinks there's votes in it? Or is it because he likes the idea of owning oodles of high grade killing kit and having lots of soldiers and sailors under his command even though they have bugger all to do? Bit of both maybe.

    And you sell him short on racism. He has not failed to do much about it. He has stoked it and dog whistled to its adherents at every opportunity.
    He has spent more on the military mainly as it enhances his status as POTUS and they vote for him.

    Fair enough on para 2
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    'Great scoop'
    Woodward and Bernstein, look to your laurels!

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1298575537888268290?s=20

    I think a stomach staple and less pies might be quicker.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Andy_JS said:

    This is a great market, lots of dumb money, including people who lucked into a win last time and now think they're smart.

    A good example is that Trump was about 12/1 to win the popular vote a couple of weeks ago IIRC. That was always bound to come down over time, and it's now 5.5.
    That’s a lay, surely? Even if half of California and NY move out, Biden’s going to pile up a few million meaningless votes in those states, maybe even more than Hilary did.

    Trump won last time by a series of small wins in key states, IMO a win for him this time looks similar, can’t see him winning the popular vote.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    I'm not sure I would agree with Mike's statement that Kamala Harris will outshine Pence. Yes, he is boring and she is an ex-prosecutor but Harris' performances in the debates were mixed. For God's sake, she got done over by Tulsi Gabbard....
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    So, we think people will vote Trump to protect them from civil disorder that has escalated and has been escalated on his watch?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll give you some of those states - although the state polling in places like Wisconsin turned out to be pants last time.


    But according to RCP
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/

    Clinton's lead on August 24 2016 was 4.0% not 5.4%, and Biden's on 24 August 2020 was 7.8% not 7.6%. Not going to check the accuracy of the other figures.

    But that Wisconsin Trafalgar poll is just one poll, against all the others showing Biden leading. Cherry-picking.
    In 2016 Trafalgar Group was the only state pollster that had Trump winning Michigan and Pennsylvania, they cannot be ignored
    Correct, you do not ignore them. You number crunch how reliable they have been at polling in the last 10 or so years and then add them to all the other polls which have also been weighted in a similar way to get a weighted poll of polls average.
    Yet in 2016 it was not the poll average that was correct in Michigan and Pennsylvania, that had Hillary ahead in both states, it was Trafalgar Group which had Trump ahead there

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_clinton-5533.html

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/pa/pennsylvania_trump_vs_clinton-5633.html
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll give you some of those states - although the state polling in places like Wisconsin turned out to be pants last time.


    But according to RCP
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/

    Clinton's lead on August 24 2016 was 4.0% not 5.4%, and Biden's on 24 August 2020 was 7.8% not 7.6%. Not going to check the accuracy of the other figures.

    But that Wisconsin Trafalgar poll is just one poll, against all the others showing Biden leading. Cherry-picking.
    In 2016 Trafalgar Group was the only state pollster that had Trump winning Michigan and Pennsylvania, they cannot be ignored
    Correct, you do not ignore them. You number crunch how reliable they have been at polling in the last 10 or so years and then add them to all the other polls which have also been weighted in a similar way to get a weighted poll of polls average.
    You would look at the performance of state polls last time and, given how off many were, discount them with a large pinch of salt unless you can show something has fundamentally changed with their methodology to make them more accurate. That is not being pro-Trump, that is just looking at the evidence from last time.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    Yes, I get why US liberals hate Trump's domestic policy, his anti immigrant, anti PC rhetoric and promise to build walls with Mexico and his failure to do much about racism.

    I also get why free trade supporters dislike his tariffs and trade wars and economic policy.

    I fail to get however why those who oppose US overseas wars hate him however given he has started no new wars or invaded or bombed no new countries and even been willing to meet with Kim Jong Un.

    On international policy he is the least interventionist US President overseas since Jimmy Carter
    I sense Trump isn;t really a permanent tariff supporter. He uses tariffs strategically. And actually, it hasn't worked that badly. The Chinese are back at the table. Meanwhile the Russians are sweating badly in my view. Putin's move to 'silence' the opposition leader is not a move from strength.
    Incidentally, there is no evidence of Putin "sweating". On the contrary, thanks to the useful idiots in populist and nationalist parties in the West he has achieved many long term goals. America has a weaker foreign policy thanks to Trump allowing that to be so, thereby enabling expansion of Russian interest, and the EU is substantially weakened by Brexit. The UK is likely to be further weakened by its breakup which was enabled by Boris Johnson, who has to be the most inept leader Britain has had in centuries. Putin has many reasons to be cheerful. As he is leader of Russia for life, and probably the richest man in the world, he has lots to be smug about.
    Of course it wasn't Boris and the conservatives who were astonishingly weak and ambivalent in the face of blatant Russian aggression in Salisbury. It was the pro-EU, pro-remain labour party.

    and it isn;t brexit Britain that gives billions in hard currency to Putin in exchange for gas supplies, and then shirks its Nato spedning responsibilities even though its a very rich nation.

    It is Germany.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    You don't have to be woke to realise that Trump is a repulsive psychopath
    Something on which we can agree.
    My bottom line is that the US nuclear arsenal is not safe in Trump's hands. So to help me sleep at night, I am rooting for Biden all the way.
    I don;t know where you get this notion from. Trump's foreign policy is one of retreat from the international stage.

    Pull back troops. Make allies pay their fair share. Rely on sanctions and tariffs. Be skeptical of international bodies.

    He's the very opposite of a warmonger if you look at what he actually does.
    Yes, I get why US liberals hate Trump's domestic policy, his anti immigrant, anti PC rhetoric and promise to build walls with Mexico and his failure to do much about racism.

    I also get why free trade supporters dislike his tariffs and trade wars and economic policy.

    I fail to get however why those who oppose US overseas wars hate him however given he has started no new wars or invaded or bombed no new countries and even been willing to meet with Kim Jong Un.

    On international policy he is the least interventionist US President overseas since Jimmy Carter
    I sense Trump isn;t really a permanent tariff supporter. He uses tariffs strategically. And actually, it hasn't worked that badly. The Chinese are back at the table. Meanwhile the Russians are sweating badly in my view. Putin's move to 'silence' the opposition leader is not a move from strength.
    Incidentally, there is no evidence of Putin "sweating". On the contrary, thanks to the useful idiots in populist and nationalist parties in the West he has achieved many long term goals. America has a weaker foreign policy thanks to Trump allowing that to be so, thereby enabling expansion of Russian interest, and the EU is substantially weakened by Brexit. The UK is likely to be further weakened by its breakup which was enabled by Boris Johnson, who has to be the most inept leader Britain has had in centuries. Putin has many reasons to be cheerful. As he is leader of Russia for life, and probably the richest man in the world, he has lots to be smug about.
    Of course it wasn't Boris and the conservatives who were astonishingly weak and ambivalent in the face of blatant Russian aggression in Salisbury. It was the pro-EU, pro-remain labour party.

    and it isn;t brexit Britain that gives billions in hard currency to Putin in exchange for gas supplies, and then shirks its Nato spending responsibilities even though its a very rich nation.

    It is Germany.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    'Great scoop'
    Woodward and Bernstein, look to your laurels!

    ttps://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1298575537888268290?s=20

    Middle aged man, with stressful job who’s been quite sick recently and put on a few pounds, hires a personal trainer. Hardly news, is it?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...

  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Pro_Rata said:

    So, we think people will vote Trump to protect them from civil disorder that has escalated and has been escalated on his watch?

    Obama made the point in a recent interview about how the US President has limited powers when it comes to many things, including what happens in the streets. So how does Obama get a free pass, yet it is all Trump's fault?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    'Great scoop'
    Woodward and Bernstein, look to your laurels!

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1298575537888268290?s=20

    At least one client journo has to get the Boris bone each week. Not unlike his editorship of the spectator.
  • HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I voted for Davey. But there has been a lot of noise and apparent movement towards Moran as the contest has dragged on. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an upset TBH
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I voted for Davey. But there has been a lot of noise and apparent movement towards Moran as the contest has dragged on. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an upset TBH
    If it is Moran the LDs can probably kiss goodbye to winning more Tory Remainers in 2024, only Davey is really likely to get them. Tory Remainers would likely even prefer Starmer to Moran
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited August 2020
    Pro_Rata said:

    So, we think people will vote Trump to protect them from civil disorder that has escalated and has been escalated on his watch?

    On the watch of Democrat mayors and governors, many of whom have been quietly supportive of the rioters.

    Trump has always said that federal resources are available to anyone who wants them to combat disorder.

    Expect this to be hammered home by the Republicans in the coming weeks.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    'Great scoop'
    Woodward and Bernstein, look to your laurels!

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1298575537888268290?s=20

    At least one client journo has to get the Boris bone each week. Not unlike his editorship of the spectator.
    Unfortunate wording ...
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    I wonder if Carrie gets a veto on BoJo's personal trainers.

    Karen Fit-bird need not apply.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    edited August 2020

    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Ave_it said:

    Trump can still do it.

    Be scared Wokeristas!

    If Trump wins one of the main reasons will be suburban voters looking at the chaos in a big city near them and thinking "we don't want that to happen here".
    The only extraordinary thing is that anybody at all would vote for what is happening in American cities right now. Or what has happened in American cities under democrat control for decades.
    Things don't look great in NYC; it sounds like people are voting with their feet.
    New York was an amazing city. I used to go twice a year for business. When I saw that video of what Manhattan has turned into, I was totally shocked. I thought the pace was indestructible.

    Its partly covid of course. But COVID does not cause block after block of boarded up shops.

    That's called looting
    Er, Covid does cause boarded up shops, plenty of premises in Glasgow boarded up to keep them secure during lockdown. Though maybe they were fearful of Wokists going on the rampage in their vendetta against statchoos.
    Deleted.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...
    World class mug celebrates living in a nation of world class mugs.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2020

    On topic - as Damien Green observed, this is the Dems to lose and (some of them) are going about it the right way.....

    Meanwhile.....

    https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/1298589035812847616?s=20

    GERs day when Kibble Kev tries to forget he said this.

    “Richard finished his piece by saying they can’t tell us what an independent Scotland’s finances would look like. That is, of course, absolutely true.

    What the GERS figures do tell us is, historically, how do Scotland’s revenue and expenditure figures look as an integral part of the UK.

    You said – and it’s a critical phrase – ‘the purpose for which it’s intended’. Nobody suggests that the GERS figures show what a future independent Scotland would look like.”

    Quite true. But the SNP won't tell us how we get from here to there (and they're very coy about what "there" involves, details like "currency" and so on.)

    The people of Scotland deserve more than "It'll be alright on the night".

    GERS takes the current structure of UK Government reserved taxation and spending as given. If the very purpose of independence is to take different choices (good or bad) about the type of economy and society that we live in, then a set of accounts based upon the current constitutional settlement and policy priorities will look different to the long-term finances of an independent Scotland. Put simply, it’s not possible to run structural deficits of this scale over the long-run (even if you believe that a country’s central bank can simply print money to pay for it…btw, they can’t)

    But GERS does provide an accurate picture of where Scotland is in 2020. So, in doing so, today’s numbers set the starting point for a discussion about the choices and challenges that need to be addressed by those advocating independence or new fiscal arrangements. It’s not enough to say ‘everything will be fine’ or ‘look at this country, they can run a sensible fiscal balance so why can’t Scotland?’. Concrete proposals and ideas are needed.


    https://fraserofallander.org/scottish-economy/gers/and-were-off-government-expenditure-and-revenue-scotland-2019-20/

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    MrEd said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    So, we think people will vote Trump to protect them from civil disorder that has escalated and has been escalated on his watch?

    Obama made the point in a recent interview about how the US President has limited powers when it comes to many things, including what happens in the streets. So how does Obama get a free pass, yet it is all Trump's fault?
    Is Obama running again? Can't believe I missed that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I voted for Davey. But there has been a lot of noise and apparent movement towards Moran as the contest has dragged on. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an upset TBH
    If it is Moran the LDs can probably kiss goodbye to winning more Tory Remainers in 2024, only Davey is really likely to get them. Tory Remainers would likely even prefer Starmer to Moran
    As a Tory Remainer, which would you prefer?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    So, we think people will vote Trump to protect them from civil disorder that has escalated and has been escalated on his watch?

    Obama made the point in a recent interview about how the US President has limited powers when it comes to many things, including what happens in the streets. So how does Obama get a free pass, yet it is all Trump's fault?
    Is Obama running again? Can't believe I missed that.
    Answer the question....
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Another scientist bucking the sheep trend

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ulA8u05Z-Q
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    So, we think people will vote Trump to protect them from civil disorder that has escalated and has been escalated on his watch?

    On the watch of Democrat mayors and governors, many of whom have been quietly supportive of the rioters.

    Trump has always said that federal resources are available to anyone who wants them to combat disorder.

    Expect this to be hammered home by the Republicans in the coming weeks.
    Or perhaps a rather different message might gain traction -

    The best way to combat disorder caused by racist policing is to cease to tolerate racist policing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    How putting up taxes can raise less revenue.....who knew?

    https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/1298602031033266177?s=20
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Maybe we'll have a whip round on here for the two grand it takes us to keep you and every other Scot in Walt Disney Whingeworld.

    Cut out the tax raising and cheque writing middlemen.
  • MrEd said:

    I'm not sure I would agree with Mike's statement that Kamala Harris will outshine Pence. Yes, he is boring and she is an ex-prosecutor but Harris' performances in the debates were mixed. For God's sake, she got done over by Tulsi Gabbard....

    Kamala Harris and Mike Pence will both win and both lose. Both candidates will direct their remarks to their own bases. It is unlikely they will even pretend to be talking about the same things.

    If MP says Dems will steal all your guns, and KH says GOP will hand out free assault rifles on street corners, then each candidate wins with their own base and loses with the other. And this extends easily to other issues.

    They will talk past each other, address their own bases, and spin it as a win.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Sandpit said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    So, we think people will vote Trump to protect them from civil disorder that has escalated and has been escalated on his watch?

    On the watch of Democrat mayors and governors, many of whom have been quietly supportive of the rioters.

    Trump has always said that federal resources are available to anyone who wants them to combat disorder.

    Expect this to be hammered home by the Republicans in the coming weeks.
    The biggest losers from rioting in the cities and the withdrawal of the Police has, in many cases, being poor black residents. And that is not including the stores that are shuttered permanently because shops won't open up in districts seen as prone to violence.

    That will also be hammered home by the Republican. There is a reason why the advert on Baltimore has gone viral. It is because everyone knows, even if they don't want to admit it, that the facts speak for themselves.

    Remember - the Democrats need the Black vote to turn out to win the swing states. If it doesn't, they lose.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    kinabalu said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...
    World class mug celebrates living in a nation of world class mugs.
    BORIS leading the way

    Disappointment coming soon to Wokeristas in USA too as Trump does in again!

    #MAGA2
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    As predicted, large City firms look to flexible working practices to save huge amounts of office space.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/08/25/jpmorgan-linklaters-signal-end-daily-commute-city-workers/

    London-based Daniel Pinto, head of JP Morgan's investment banking arm, told CNBC that staff will in future cycle between office-based shifts and home working.

    “ Depending on the type of business, you may be working one week a month from home, or two days a week from home, or two weeks a month.”
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Maybe we'll have a whip round on here for the two grand it takes us to keep you and every other Scot in Walt Disney Whingeworld.

    Cut out the tax raising and cheque writing middlemen.
    Even on your own logic, that letter dates from before devolution was implemented!
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    I'm not sure I would agree with Mike's statement that Kamala Harris will outshine Pence. Yes, he is boring and she is an ex-prosecutor but Harris' performances in the debates were mixed. For God's sake, she got done over by Tulsi Gabbard....

    Kamala Harris and Mike Pence will both win and both lose. Both candidates will direct their remarks to their own bases. It is unlikely they will even pretend to be talking about the same things.

    If MP says Dems will steal all your guns, and KH says GOP will hand out free assault rifles on street corners, then each candidate wins with their own base and loses with the other. And this extends easily to other issues.

    They will talk past each other, address their own bases, and spin it as a win.
    I would also expect the Republicans to use the Gabbard quotes from the debate with Harris over and over again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    Ave_it said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...
    World class mug celebrates living in a nation of world class mugs.
    BORIS leading the way

    Disappointment coming soon to Wokeristas in USA too as Trump does in again!

    #MAGA2
    #MAGAA
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Ave_it said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...
    World class mug celebrates living in a nation of world class mugs.
    BORIS leading the way

    Disappointment coming soon to Wokeristas in USA too as Trump does in again!

    #MAGA2
    #MAGAA
    I don't feel so lonely any more :)
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Ave_it said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...
    World class mug celebrates living in a nation of world class mugs.
    BORIS leading the way

    Disappointment coming soon to Wokeristas in USA too as Trump does in again!

    #MAGA2
    The way some very senior tories have reacted to the latest mask u-turn shows there is very deep disquiet in the tory party right now about Boris

    Coming soon.....the NHS Bozo loves so much leaving ten million people to rot waiting for treatment.
  • HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'll give you some of those states - although the state polling in places like Wisconsin turned out to be pants last time.


    But according to RCP
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/trump-vs-biden-national-polls-2020-vs-2016/

    Clinton's lead on August 24 2016 was 4.0% not 5.4%, and Biden's on 24 August 2020 was 7.8% not 7.6%. Not going to check the accuracy of the other figures.

    But that Wisconsin Trafalgar poll is just one poll, against all the others showing Biden leading. Cherry-picking.
    In 2016 Trafalgar Group was the only state pollster that had Trump winning Michigan and Pennsylvania, they cannot be ignored
    Correct, you do not ignore them. You number crunch how reliable they have been at polling in the last 10 or so years and then add them to all the other polls which have also been weighted in a similar way to get a weighted poll of polls average.
    Yet in 2016 it was not the poll average that was correct in Michigan and Pennsylvania, that had Hillary ahead in both states, it was Trafalgar Group which had Trump ahead there

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_trump_vs_clinton-5533.html

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/pa/pennsylvania_trump_vs_clinton-5633.html
    Although they did also have him ahead (fairly comfortably) in Nevada, which he lost.

    The point is that, if you were bullish on Trump in 2016, you look quite good as you called wins others didn't. However, that doesn't make a pollster an accurate pollster - you need to look over several election cycles for that.

    So I don't rule out that Trafalgar could be right this time and don't rule out Trump could win overall. But I am not going to conclude they are the gold standard of polling, or superior to other pollsters, because of a couple of cherry-picked data points from one election.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The question is how much should I pay attention to a pollster that said Trump would win by 5 in Nevada (result, Hilary won), that Cruz would win by 7.5 in Texas (he won by 2.5) or that Kemp would win by 12 whole points in Georgia(he won by 1.5).

    Trafalgar have some great PR, politico is always puffing them, but their results are mixed at best. If you simply take a poll average and then add a GOP lean you start doing about as well as Trafalgar polling at accuracy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    MrEd said:

    Ave_it said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...
    World class mug celebrates living in a nation of world class mugs.
    BORIS leading the way

    Disappointment coming soon to Wokeristas in USA too as Trump does in again!

    #MAGA2
    #MAGAA
    I don't feel so lonely any more :)
    I'm afraid I'm not really keeping you company - I really don't mind who wins the USA Presidential election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I voted for Davey. But there has been a lot of noise and apparent movement towards Moran as the contest has dragged on. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an upset TBH
    If it is Moran the LDs can probably kiss goodbye to winning more Tory Remainers in 2024, only Davey is really likely to get them. Tory Remainers would likely even prefer Starmer to Moran
    As a Tory Remainer, which would you prefer?
    Davey, though obviously I will still vote Tory regardless as a Tory member (albeit my fiancee lives in Moran's constituency)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    'Great scoop'
    Woodward and Bernstein, look to your laurels!

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/1298575537888268290?s=20

    ░S░O░L░I░D░ ░M░U░S░C░L░E░
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    You have to be truly despicable to want Trump to win. It has nothing to do with being “woke” or “left vs right”.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Question for Brexiters:

    What's with asking a foreigner to lead our trade negotiations? Eh?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    TOPPING said:

    Question for Brexiters:

    What's with asking a foreigner to lead our trade negotiations? Eh?

    He's not foreign, he's Anglospherian!
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    You have to be truly despicable to want Trump to win. It has nothing to do with being “woke” or “left vs right”.

    Grow up
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I voted for Davey. But there has been a lot of noise and apparent movement towards Moran as the contest has dragged on. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an upset TBH
    If it is Moran the LDs can probably kiss goodbye to winning more Tory Remainers in 2024, only Davey is really likely to get them. Tory Remainers would likely even prefer Starmer to Moran
    As a Tory Remainer, which would you prefer?
    Davey, though obviously I will still vote Tory regardless as a Tory member (albeit my fiancee lives in Moran's constituency)
    I hope you've warned her about them pansexualists.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    You have to be truly despicable to want Trump to win. It has nothing to do with being “woke” or “left vs right”.

    Grow up
    The guy openly fans the flames of race war and panders to white supremacists. He is a despicable human being and anyone who “supports” him is just as despicable.

    Wanting to piss off some “wokists” is no excuse.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    So, we think people will vote Trump to protect them from civil disorder that has escalated and has been escalated on his watch?

    Obama made the point in a recent interview about how the US President has limited powers when it comes to many things, including what happens in the streets. So how does Obama get a free pass, yet it is all Trump's fault?
    Is Obama running again? Can't believe I missed that.
    Answer the question....
    Political leaders, sometimes fairly and sometimes not, tend to get judged on what happens in their countries on their watch. Why should President Trump be exempt from this? For example, he was all set to claim the good economy (forgetting the eye popping public debt) was all down to him. As absurd a claim as that the race riots or coronavirus are all his fault. But that's politics.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...

    That's all you Bozo apologists care about. Your understanding of the exercise of power is as vacuous and childish as his is. Not a care about whether the country is well run, but the polls. The Tory Party is a sad shadow of its once respectable self, and its membership is personified by dimwits who think the only thing that matters is "the polls".

    I have been a Tory voter all of my adult life until the last election. Whatever the polls say now, there is a reasonable chance that the value vacuum that is Boris Johnson will, by the time of the next election deliver a massive no-deal induced recession and the breakup of the UK and a total collapse in Conservative support. After the next election the Tories may well be out for a generation.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    The Mutant Algorithm: it came from outer space and there was nothing we could have done about it.

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1298589442568069120?s=20
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    As Dr Johnson observed, there is little point in settling the precedence between a louse and a flea....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020

    Ave_it said:

    Ave_it said:

    HYUFD said:

    Ave_it said:

    The polls have closed in the most important political event of the year - LD leadership election!!

    Has Layla done it?!

    :lol:

    No, it will almost certainly be Davey
    I agree although that will be boring!

    'No personality' LD leader as well as one for LAB

    As opposed to a "lots of personality but no leadership or competency skills" leader for the Tories. Leading a political party or a country is not meant to be a gameshow. It is a serious business, but then those that have been gulled by the fat clown still don't get it.
    Presumably that's why CON are still ahead in the polls!

    Long wait for those who want to see LAB or LD in power...

    That's all you Bozo apologists care about. Your understanding of the exercise of power is as vacuous and childish as his is. Not a care about whether the country is well run, but the polls. The Tory Party is a sad shadow of its once respectable self, and its membership is personified by dimwits who think the only thing that matters is "the polls".

    I have been a Tory voter all of my adult life until the last election. Whatever the polls say now, there is a reasonable chance that the value vacuum that is Boris Johnson will, by the time of the next election deliver a massive no-deal induced recession and the breakup of the UK and a total collapse in Conservative support. After the next election the Tories may well be out for a generation.
    A no-deal might lead to Tory defeat yes, breakup of the UK though would actually increase the chances of a Tory majority given the Tories won a majority of only 80 in the UK at GE19 but had a majority of 157 in England alone
This discussion has been closed.