My thinking on masks in schools is that the schools themselves are best placed to determine their own policy, like they are for school uniforms.
I wouldn't think masks are a good idea in primary schools but for secondary schools they definitely could be. Each school probably knows itself how well socially distanced they have been able to rearrange the school and if they wish to encourage masks they would have my full support. If they think they're redundant then so be it too.
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
Masks should be mandatory in secondary schools, at least away from desks. It's the right balance between ensuring education and viral transmission prevention.
My thinking on masks in schools is that the schools themselves are best placed to determine their own policy, like they are for school uniforms.
I wouldn't think masks are a good idea in primary schools but for secondary schools they definitely could be. Each school probably knows itself how well socially distanced they have been able to rearrange the school and if they wish to encourage masks they would have my full support. If they think they're redundant then so be it too.
Whatever schools decide, the government should provide free masks from the stock the NHS bought but could not use.
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
I find that hard to believe considering that leaving the EEA was explicit policy of the leave campaign. When was that he wrote that?
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
I find that hard to believe considering that leaving the EEA was explicit policy of the leave campaign. When was that he wrote that?
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
I find that hard to believe considering that leaving the EEA was explicit policy of the leave campaign. When was that he wrote that?
Early 2016 I think, I should have kept the letter although I only threw it away about twelve months ago.
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
I find that hard to believe considering that leaving the EEA was explicit policy of the leave campaign. When was that he wrote that?
What is wrong with EEA
Control of borders money laws and fishies, or something.
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
I find that hard to believe considering that leaving the EEA was explicit policy of the leave campaign. When was that he wrote that?
What is wrong with EEA
EEA is outside of the Customs Union so that's a good thing with it.
But it still inside the Single Market so subject to EU Single Market laws, subject to payments for Single Market membership and (if you care about it, I don't) subject to Single Market rules on Free Movement.
That is why Leave campaigners (and Remain campaigners) were explicit that a vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
I find that hard to believe considering that leaving the EEA was explicit policy of the leave campaign. When was that he wrote that?
What is wrong with EEA
EEA is outside of the Customs Union so that's a good thing with it.
But it still inside the Single Market so subject to EU Single Market laws, subject to payments for Single Market membership and (if you care about it, I don't) subject to Single Market rules on Free Movement.
That is why Leave campaigners (and Remain campaigners) were explicit that a vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
Johnson with a 6% lead there on Favourable ratings.
Remarkable all things considered that he's still leading on that metric.
That's one way of looking at it if you are a Boris fanboy.
44% of those polled disapprove of Johnson while just 25% of those polled disapprove of Starmer. That's a big gap.
Actually credit goes to @isam who identified a while back that Favourable ratings were historically more accurate than Net Favourables - which makes sense considering votes vote for a party and not against one.
Plus of course Johnson is polling as good or better than he was in approval ratings still today than he was before he won his landslide 80 seat majority.
My thinking on masks in schools is that the schools themselves are best placed to determine their own policy, like they are for school uniforms.
I wouldn't think masks are a good idea in primary schools but for secondary schools they definitely could be. Each school probably knows itself how well socially distanced they have been able to rearrange the school and if they wish to encourage masks they would have my full support. If they think they're redundant then so be it too.
So the boys will be trying to get into the girls masks before their knickers?
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
Do you have a copy of the letter still /
Unfortunately no longer, eventually I decided I had enough to wind myself up about without that and ditched it.
Can someone nominate this from 23.8.20 as betting post of the decade!!
BETTING POST
Draw in Test 3.6 is far too high IMO
I think day 5 will be completely washed out and day 4 will be badly interrupted too. So how long will it take England to get 17 wkts
I reckon they have 120 overs left (70 today, 50 tomorrow, zero on day5) in the last 3 days which may be enough but wheras a home win would be a virtual certainty with 270 overs its not in less than half that.
Anyway i am taking a chance that the weather is bad enougn to make the draw a tighter than 3.6 chance.
DYOR
Sadly, I'm afraid @Morris_Dancer will be along shortly to remind you of the time he backed Max van Wall to win the Eurotrash GP at 9000/1...
Martin Rady on the subject of problematic music for Viennese concert goers.
"News of Radetsky's victory at Custoza prompted widespread jubilation in Vienna and was celebrated in August with the premiere of Johann Strauss's Redetsky March. In Lombardy, meanwhile all democratic government was torn up, military rule imposed and a reign of terror released on the countryside. Habsburg troops hunted down insurgents and sympathisers alike handing them over for public floggings and the hangman's noose. Concert goers who clap and stomp to the beat of The Radetsky March should recall just what they are cheering."
"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."
No you see some speeches were made and contradictory stuff was said but we definitely voted to leave the SM and CU despite the latter never being mentioned until we'd voted (from my recollection - and I'm a politics nut)
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
I find that hard to believe considering that leaving the EEA was explicit policy of the leave campaign. When was that he wrote that?
What is wrong with EEA
EEA is outside of the Customs Union so that's a good thing with it.
But it still inside the Single Market so subject to EU Single Market laws, subject to payments for Single Market membership and (if you care about it, I don't) subject to Single Market rules on Free Movement.
That is why Leave campaigners (and Remain campaigners) were explicit that a vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
What are the issues with any of those?
Being subject to Single Market laws? We voted to take back control so that Parliament passes the laws we're subject to. If Parliament passes a law you dislike you can elect a new Parliament to reverse or change the law. If the EU passes a law you dislike then tough luck you get no say. I believe in democracy - do you?
Being subject to Single Market money? I think billions of pounds of taxes could better go to the NHS etc - do you?
Single Market free movement - I'm not that fussed about this, though I do think we should treat everyone equally and not discriminate against [predominantly not white] the rest of the world in favour of discriminating in favour of the [predominantly white] Europeans. I think an eg Indian doctor should take priority for movement into the UK than eg a Romanian unskilled, unemployed migrant. But I'm not overly fussed personally.
My view on masks in schools is that we are taking a big risk on a second virus peak on children going back to school due to the sheer number of social interactions in that environment. I also think we need to make school work, which means being rigorous on hygiene everywhere - masks in schools, yes - but also in pubs etc. We have zero headroom on this virus.
The Single Market was a large part of what we voted on five years ago. If you wanted to stay in the Single Market you should have voted for Remain. All leading campaigners on both sides of the fence were absolutely explicit that leaving the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
Electoral calculus gives Tories 320, Labour 242, SNP 58, LDs 7, PC 4, Greens 1, NI 18.
So Starmer could be PM in a hung parliament but only with Labour, SNP, LD, PC, Green and SDLP and DUP support by taking the whole UK back into the EEA.
What's the bad news they are trying to bury, or what are they burying this under?
This by the BM seems as effective as giving money voluntarily to a mugger in the hope that they will go away.
Will the Tate be similarly brain-addled with Nick Serota as boss?
From the article, it seems firing up the outrage bus is premature:
"The museum said in a statement that the bust "has been redisplayed in the Enlightenment Gallery juxtaposed with objects that reflect that Sloane's collection was created in the context of the British Empire and the slave economy.
"The display acknowledges that Sloane's travels and collecting in colonial Jamaica used enslaved Africans and explores the fact that his collecting was partly financed from the labour of enslaved Africans on his wife’s sugar plantations."
"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."
No you see some speeches were made and contradictory stuff was said but we definitely voted to leave the SM and CU despite the latter never being mentioned until we'd voted (from my recollection - and I'm a politics nut)
The latter was mentioned. Johnson and others were explicit that if we vote to leave the EU we'd be voting to take control of being able to make free trade deals. That is explicitly saying we would leave the CU.
Fysh is an ignorant arse, thick as pig shit and lier to boot.
Very keen on a very hard Brexit.
He’s nominally my MP he promised me, in writing, that if the UK voted leave there was no way we would leave EEA/EFTA and that free movement would continue uninterrupted.
This empire/proms brouhaha looks to me to be a distraction from the Brexit talks (Which don't seem to be going well) and the various schools u-turns/cock ups.
"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."
No you see some speeches were made and contradictory stuff was said but we definitely voted to leave the SM and CU despite the latter never being mentioned until we'd voted (from my recollection - and I'm a politics nut)
The latter was mentioned. Johnson and others were explicit that if we vote to leave the EU we'd be voting to take control of being able to make free trade deals. That is explicitly saying we would leave the CU.
If somebody voted to leave based on Fysh's Tweet, what say you
Having lunch in Spoons. Guy on the door won’t let people in who are wearing a mask, which I think makes sense. Either they think they might have it or they are worried they might get it. Either way they shouldn’t be going into a pub.
That anecdote says more about Wetherspoons than about those wearing masks. Not in a good way.
The Single Market was a large part of what we voted on five years ago. If you wanted to stay in the Single Market you should have voted for Remain. All leading campaigners on both sides of the fence were absolutely explicit that leaving the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
It is critical to remember that the economic single market and the political EU are not one and the same thing. We can participate in the market as members of the European Economic Area without being saddled with the EU as a political project. Those, such as the business chiefs of the CBI, who confuse the memberships of the single market and the EU are making a basic error and misleading the British people.
This is where UKIP is wrong. Desperate to control immigration from the EU, the party has rejected continued membership of the single market within the EEA – which would place our economy at risk. In fact, as a member of the EEA but not the EU, we would not be bound by the European Court of Justice and its rulings on our benefits system. But, crucially, we could introduce “Safeguard Measures”, giving us an “emergency brake” on excessive migration – an option not available to us in the EU. We would get the benefits to business and the economy of free movement, with real power over our borders.
My view on masks in schools is that we are taking a big risk on a second virus peak on children going back to school due to the sheer number of social interactions in that environment. I also think we need to make school work, which means being rigorous on hygiene everywhere - masks in schools, yes - but also in pubs etc. We have zero headroom on this virus.
Masks in schools seems a no brainer.
Wearing masks as a mitigating factor while reintroducing activities is a pretty benign intervention.
My view on masks in schools is that we are taking a big risk on a second virus peak on children going back to school due to the sheer number of social interactions in that environment. I also think we need to make school work, which means being rigorous on hygiene everywhere - masks in schools, yes - but also in pubs etc. We have zero headroom on this virus.
The are seven conditions killing more people than coronavirus in our country at the moment.
"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."
No you see some speeches were made and contradictory stuff was said but we definitely voted to leave the SM and CU despite the latter never being mentioned until we'd voted (from my recollection - and I'm a politics nut)
The latter was mentioned. Johnson and others were explicit that if we vote to leave the EU we'd be voting to take control of being able to make free trade deals. That is explicitly saying we would leave the CU.
If somebody voted to leave based on Fysh's Tweet, what say you
That they're a weirdo freak and why didn't they pay more attention to the leaders of the campaign like Johnson who was utterly unequivocal and explicit?
"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."
No you see some speeches were made and contradictory stuff was said but we definitely voted to leave the SM and CU despite the latter never being mentioned until we'd voted (from my recollection - and I'm a politics nut)
The latter was mentioned. Johnson and others were explicit that if we vote to leave the EU we'd be voting to take control of being able to make free trade deals. That is explicitly saying we would leave the CU.
If somebody voted to leave based on Fysh's Tweet, what say you
That they're a weirdo freak and why didn't they pay more attention to the leaders of the campaign like Johnson who was utterly unequivocal and explicit?
The Single Market was a large part of what we voted on five years ago. If you wanted to stay in the Single Market you should have voted for Remain. All leading campaigners on both sides of the fence were absolutely explicit that leaving the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
It is critical to remember that the economic single market and the political EU are not one and the same thing. We can participate in the market as members of the European Economic Area without being saddled with the EU as a political project. Those, such as the business chiefs of the CBI, who confuse the memberships of the single market and the EU are making a basic error and misleading the British people.
This is where UKIP is wrong. Desperate to control immigration from the EU, the party has rejected continued membership of the single market within the EEA – which would place our economy at risk. In fact, as a member of the EEA but not the EU, we would not be bound by the European Court of Justice and its rulings on our benefits system. But, crucially, we could introduce “Safeguard Measures”, giving us an “emergency brake” on excessive migration – an option not available to us in the EU. We would get the benefits to business and the economy of free movement, with real power over our borders.
Was January 2015 before or during the Referendum campaign? 🙄
During the Referendum campaign the Leavers like Johnson united behind a proposal under Vote Leave and others like Farage united under an alternate one called Leave.EU and both were explicit and unequivocal that we would leave the Single Market.
Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and Boris Johnson all explicitly said in the days before the vote on the BBC at prime time that we would leave the Single Market. No ifs, no buts, no equivocation. If you didn't understand that then don't cry now - if you did understand that but don't like it then tough.
"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."
No you see some speeches were made and contradictory stuff was said but we definitely voted to leave the SM and CU despite the latter never being mentioned until we'd voted (from my recollection - and I'm a politics nut)
The latter was mentioned. Johnson and others were explicit that if we vote to leave the EU we'd be voting to take control of being able to make free trade deals. That is explicitly saying we would leave the CU.
If somebody voted to leave based on Fysh's Tweet, what say you
That they're a weirdo freak and why didn't they pay more attention to the leaders of the campaign like Johnson who was utterly unequivocal and explicit?
So no answer then ok
I would guess similar answers were given my multiple Tory leave voting MPs when asked.
"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."
No you see some speeches were made and contradictory stuff was said but we definitely voted to leave the SM and CU despite the latter never being mentioned until we'd voted (from my recollection - and I'm a politics nut)
The latter was mentioned. Johnson and others were explicit that if we vote to leave the EU we'd be voting to take control of being able to make free trade deals. That is explicitly saying we would leave the CU.
If somebody voted to leave based on Fysh's Tweet, what say you
That they're a weirdo freak and why didn't they pay more attention to the leaders of the campaign like Johnson who was utterly unequivocal and explicit?
So no answer then ok
I gave an answer. I couldn't care less about Fysh and my answer is that Johnson was explicit, Johnson (not Fysh) was a leader of Vote Leave and Johnson is Prime Minister.
Having lunch in Spoons. Guy on the door won’t let people in who are wearing a mask, which I think makes sense. Either they think they might have it or they are worried they might get it. Either way they shouldn’t be going into a pub.
That anecdote says more about Wetherspoons than about those wearing masks. Not in a good way.
People were still wearing them inside, and they weren't getting chucked out or anything.
But I can understand them explaining to people that you don't have to wear a mask and that they shouldn't expect others to do so.
The Single Market was a large part of what we voted on five years ago. If you wanted to stay in the Single Market you should have voted for Remain. All leading campaigners on both sides of the fence were absolutely explicit that leaving the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
It is critical to remember that the economic single market and the political EU are not one and the same thing. We can participate in the market as members of the European Economic Area without being saddled with the EU as a political project. Those, such as the business chiefs of the CBI, who confuse the memberships of the single market and the EU are making a basic error and misleading the British people.
This is where UKIP is wrong. Desperate to control immigration from the EU, the party has rejected continued membership of the single market within the EEA – which would place our economy at risk. In fact, as a member of the EEA but not the EU, we would not be bound by the European Court of Justice and its rulings on our benefits system. But, crucially, we could introduce “Safeguard Measures”, giving us an “emergency brake” on excessive migration – an option not available to us in the EU. We would get the benefits to business and the economy of free movement, with real power over our borders.
Apparently anything said by individuals before the vote doesn’t count and didn’t influence the result.
Does @HYUFD know Will Radley from the Essex Tory social circle ?
I wondered if they were one and the same. But the language and sense of person's age dictate otherwise.
I am also not proud of the Empire as such, I am not ashamed of it either but my views would be closer to those Gallowgate posted earlier on that than his
The Single Market was a large part of what we voted on five years ago. If you wanted to stay in the Single Market you should have voted for Remain. All leading campaigners on both sides of the fence were absolutely explicit that leaving the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
It is critical to remember that the economic single market and the political EU are not one and the same thing. We can participate in the market as members of the European Economic Area without being saddled with the EU as a political project. Those, such as the business chiefs of the CBI, who confuse the memberships of the single market and the EU are making a basic error and misleading the British people.
This is where UKIP is wrong. Desperate to control immigration from the EU, the party has rejected continued membership of the single market within the EEA – which would place our economy at risk. In fact, as a member of the EEA but not the EU, we would not be bound by the European Court of Justice and its rulings on our benefits system. But, crucially, we could introduce “Safeguard Measures”, giving us an “emergency brake” on excessive migration – an option not available to us in the EU. We would get the benefits to business and the economy of free movement, with real power over our borders.
Was January 2015 before or during the Referendum campaign? 🙄
During the Referendum campaign the Leavers like Johnson united behind a proposal under Vote Leave and others like Farage united under an alternate one called Leave.EU and both were explicit and unequivocal that we would leave the Single Market.
Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and Boris Johnson all explicitly said in the days before the vote on the BBC at prime time that we would leave the Single Market. No ifs, no buts, no equivocation. If you didn't understand that then don't cry now - if you did understand that but don't like it then tough.
Johnson with a 6% lead there on Favourable ratings.
Remarkable all things considered that he's still leading on that metric.
That's one way of looking at it if you are a Boris fanboy.
44% of those polled disapprove of Johnson while just 25% of those polled disapprove of Starmer. That's a big gap.
Actually credit goes to @isam who identified a while back that Favourable ratings were historically more accurate than Net Favourables - which makes sense considering votes vote for a party and not against one.
Plus of course Johnson is polling as good or better than he was in approval ratings still today than he was before he won his landslide 80 seat majority.
Having lunch in Spoons. Guy on the door won’t let people in who are wearing a mask, which I think makes sense. Either they think they might have it or they are worried they might get it. Either way they shouldn’t be going into a pub.
That anecdote says more about Wetherspoons than about those wearing masks. Not in a good way.
People were still wearing them inside, and they weren't getting chucked out or anything.
But I can understand them explaining to people that you don't have to wear a mask and that they shouldn't expect others to do so.
That's different to not letting people in who are wearing them, that makes no sense.
Wearing one while you go through crowded passages like doorways and corridors until you sit at a table make sense. Telling people they don't need to is different to saying they're not allowed to.
Johnson with a 6% lead there on Favourable ratings.
Remarkable all things considered that he's still leading on that metric.
That's one way of looking at it if you are a Boris fanboy.
44% of those polled disapprove of Johnson while just 25% of those polled disapprove of Starmer. That's a big gap.
Actually credit goes to @isam who identified a while back that Favourable ratings were historically more accurate than Net Favourables - which makes sense considering votes vote for a party and not against one.
Plus of course Johnson is polling as good or better than he was in approval ratings still today than he was before he won his landslide 80 seat majority.
Johnson with a 6% lead there on Favourable ratings.
Remarkable all things considered that he's still leading on that metric.
That's one way of looking at it if you are a Boris fanboy.
44% of those polled disapprove of Johnson while just 25% of those polled disapprove of Starmer. That's a big gap.
Actually credit goes to @isam who identified a while back that Favourable ratings were historically more accurate than Net Favourables - which makes sense considering votes vote for a party and not against one.
Plus of course Johnson is polling as good or better than he was in approval ratings still today than he was before he won his landslide 80 seat majority.
Have you got data to support that?
No sorry but @isam did charts about it a while back that showed it. I don't want to take credit for his work and I didn't save his charts but it would make a very interesting Guest Article if you're interested in publishing it and if he's happy to write it up? I think he's done a Guest Article for you before so maybe you or @TheScreamingEagles could speak with him about it?
I still believe EEA is the most sensible relationship
What advantages do you see in EEA that you do not see via Remaining?
What makes you prefer EEA over Remaining or would you prefer to Remain?
What advantages do you see in Brexit and how does EEA achieve them?
It does not really matter as on today's Survation there would be a hung parliament and Starmer would likely become PM and take us back into the EEA thanks to the support of over 50 SNP MPs and all the other minor parties.
However if Scotland went before 2024 then the Tories would still win a comfortable majority on the same poll so we would not go back to the EEA and either stay with a basic FTA with the EU or WTO terms.
So in effect whether we return to the EEA depends entirely on whether Scotland is still in the UK by the next general election or not regardless of the arguments for or against EEA here
Yes, the referendum question has been fulfilled. Now with that democratic mandate fully satisfied, time to choose the best economic course for Britain.
Johnson with a 6% lead there on Favourable ratings.
Remarkable all things considered that he's still leading on that metric.
That's one way of looking at it if you are a Boris fanboy.
44% of those polled disapprove of Johnson while just 25% of those polled disapprove of Starmer. That's a big gap.
Actually credit goes to @isam who identified a while back that Favourable ratings were historically more accurate than Net Favourables - which makes sense considering votes vote for a party and not against one.
Plus of course Johnson is polling as good or better than he was in approval ratings still today than he was before he won his landslide 80 seat majority.
Have you got data to support that?
No sorry but @isam did charts about it a while back that showed it. I don't want to take credit for his work and I didn't save his charts but it would make a very interesting Guest Article if you're interested in publishing it and if he's happy to write it up? I think he's done a Guest Article for you before so maybe you or @TheScreamingEagles could speak with him about it?
My view on masks in schools is that we are taking a big risk on a second virus peak on children going back to school due to the sheer number of social interactions in that environment. I also think we need to make school work, which means being rigorous on hygiene everywhere - masks in schools, yes - but also in pubs etc. We have zero headroom on this virus.
Masks in schools seems a no brainer.
Wearing masks as a mitigating factor while reintroducing activities is a pretty benign intervention.
Grauniad feed has just linked to this report implying a complete u-turn
"The government is set to make a major U-turn by announcing that wearing face masks will be near-mandatory in communal areas of secondary schools, according to sources.
Tes understands that both Public Health England and the Department for Education have signed off on this new policy."
My view on masks in schools is that we are taking a big risk on a second virus peak on children going back to school due to the sheer number of social interactions in that environment. I also think we need to make school work, which means being rigorous on hygiene everywhere - masks in schools, yes - but also in pubs etc. We have zero headroom on this virus.
Masks in schools seems a no brainer.
Wearing masks as a mitigating factor while reintroducing activities is a pretty benign intervention.
What are they mitigating against? Whitty has said Children are in no danger whatever.
Once again we have the government's double bind instructions. Schools are safe, except they aren't. Children are safe, but they might not be. Transport is safe, but be careful. You should definitely go back to work NOW, but watch out! Nightclubs should be open, but only if you don;t do the one thing they exist for. To cop off. Social clubs can open, but no socialising. Contact sports, but no contact. Have fun, but no funny business.
There are a thousand more examples.
Its absurd and Insane, and what it stems from is total cowardice and a complete lack of leadership.
Yes, the referendum question has been fulfilled. Now with that democratic mandate fully satisfied, time to choose the best economic course for Britain.
Having lunch in Spoons. Guy on the door won’t let people in who are wearing a mask, which I think makes sense. Either they think they might have it or they are worried they might get it. Either way they shouldn’t be going into a pub.
That anecdote says more about Wetherspoons than about those wearing masks. Not in a good way.
People were still wearing them inside, and they weren't getting chucked out or anything.
But I can understand them explaining to people that you don't have to wear a mask and that they shouldn't expect others to do so.
That's different to not letting people in who are wearing them, that makes no sense.
Wearing one while you go through crowded passages like doorways and corridors until you sit at a table make sense. Telling people they don't need to is different to saying they're not allowed to.
I think there's too much focus on space and not enough on time. I reckon you're more likely to catch it being sat in a pub or a class room for a couple of hours rather than walking through a corridor.
The Single Market was a large part of what we voted on five years ago. If you wanted to stay in the Single Market you should have voted for Remain. All leading campaigners on both sides of the fence were absolutely explicit that leaving the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
It is critical to remember that the economic single market and the political EU are not one and the same thing. We can participate in the market as members of the European Economic Area without being saddled with the EU as a political project. Those, such as the business chiefs of the CBI, who confuse the memberships of the single market and the EU are making a basic error and misleading the British people.
This is where UKIP is wrong. Desperate to control immigration from the EU, the party has rejected continued membership of the single market within the EEA – which would place our economy at risk. In fact, as a member of the EEA but not the EU, we would not be bound by the European Court of Justice and its rulings on our benefits system. But, crucially, we could introduce “Safeguard Measures”, giving us an “emergency brake” on excessive migration – an option not available to us in the EU. We would get the benefits to business and the economy of free movement, with real power over our borders.
Was January 2015 before or during the Referendum campaign? 🙄
During the Referendum campaign the Leavers like Johnson united behind a proposal under Vote Leave and others like Farage united under an alternate one called Leave.EU and both were explicit and unequivocal that we would leave the Single Market.
Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and Boris Johnson all explicitly said in the days before the vote on the BBC at prime time that we would leave the Single Market. No ifs, no buts, no equivocation. If you didn't understand that then don't cry now - if you did understand that but don't like it then tough.
Yes and Gove is still seeking that same free trade agreement.
You are aware that a free trade agreement is not the same as the Single Market, are you not?
David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Andrea Leadsom, Micheal Gove, Boris Johnson and George Osborne all explicitly said that leaving the EU was leaving the Single Market. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlF9STvLeDQ
Andrew Marr: Let me ask you, just before we leave the economics actually, a very simple question I have tried to get an answer to from various people on your side – is should we or should we not be inside the single market? Do you want us to stay inside the single market? Yes or no.
Michael Gove: No. We should be outside the single market.
The Single Market was a large part of what we voted on five years ago. If you wanted to stay in the Single Market you should have voted for Remain. All leading campaigners on both sides of the fence were absolutely explicit that leaving the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
It is critical to remember that the economic single market and the political EU are not one and the same thing. We can participate in the market as members of the European Economic Area without being saddled with the EU as a political project. Those, such as the business chiefs of the CBI, who confuse the memberships of the single market and the EU are making a basic error and misleading the British people.
This is where UKIP is wrong. Desperate to control immigration from the EU, the party has rejected continued membership of the single market within the EEA – which would place our economy at risk. In fact, as a member of the EEA but not the EU, we would not be bound by the European Court of Justice and its rulings on our benefits system. But, crucially, we could introduce “Safeguard Measures”, giving us an “emergency brake” on excessive migration – an option not available to us in the EU. We would get the benefits to business and the economy of free movement, with real power over our borders.
Was January 2015 before or during the Referendum campaign? 🙄
During the Referendum campaign the Leavers like Johnson united behind a proposal under Vote Leave and others like Farage united under an alternate one called Leave.EU and both were explicit and unequivocal that we would leave the Single Market.
Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and Boris Johnson all explicitly said in the days before the vote on the BBC at prime time that we would leave the Single Market. No ifs, no buts, no equivocation. If you didn't understand that then don't cry now - if you did understand that but don't like it then tough.
Straight from Gove himself. Even has a big Vote Leave banner behind him.
Yes he says we should trade with Europe, he still is saying that. That's not a case of being in the Single Market that he explicitly said we should leave - you do understand the difference don't you?
Poor ratings for Boris, related to the news on his retirement at some point next year as well I'm sure. Whilst his positive ratings were in the low to mid 40s his pool of voters was large enough to win an election, now with them dropping it isn't. I'd say Boris has a potential pool of voters of 56% of the electorate while Starmer can reach 75% of the electorate, that alone is beginning to tell in the headline VI.
This is before the Treasury starts to unwind what has made life easy for everyone. I'm not sure what will happen to the VI once the furlough has ended and a million or more people are moved to JSA and forced to find new work in fields they have no skills or training in. It may work out that this ends up like 2010-2019 and jobs are created out of the ashes of of a huge crash, but the people affected by it won't thank the government.
The Single Market was a large part of what we voted on five years ago. If you wanted to stay in the Single Market you should have voted for Remain. All leading campaigners on both sides of the fence were absolutely explicit that leaving the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
It is critical to remember that the economic single market and the political EU are not one and the same thing. We can participate in the market as members of the European Economic Area without being saddled with the EU as a political project. Those, such as the business chiefs of the CBI, who confuse the memberships of the single market and the EU are making a basic error and misleading the British people.
This is where UKIP is wrong. Desperate to control immigration from the EU, the party has rejected continued membership of the single market within the EEA – which would place our economy at risk. In fact, as a member of the EEA but not the EU, we would not be bound by the European Court of Justice and its rulings on our benefits system. But, crucially, we could introduce “Safeguard Measures”, giving us an “emergency brake” on excessive migration – an option not available to us in the EU. We would get the benefits to business and the economy of free movement, with real power over our borders.
Was January 2015 before or during the Referendum campaign? 🙄
During the Referendum campaign the Leavers like Johnson united behind a proposal under Vote Leave and others like Farage united under an alternate one called Leave.EU and both were explicit and unequivocal that we would leave the Single Market.
Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and Boris Johnson all explicitly said in the days before the vote on the BBC at prime time that we would leave the Single Market. No ifs, no buts, no equivocation. If you didn't understand that then don't cry now - if you did understand that but don't like it then tough.
Yes and Gove is still seeking that same free trade agreement.
You are aware that a free trade agreement is not the same as the Single Market, are you not?
David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Andrea Leadsom, Micheal Gove, Boris Johnson and George Osborne all explicitly said that leaving the EU was leaving the Single Market. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlF9STvLeDQ
Andrew Marr: Let me ask you, just before we leave the economics actually, a very simple question I have tried to get an answer to from various people on your side – is should we or should we not be inside the single market? Do you want us to stay inside the single market? Yes or no.
Michael Gove: No. We should be outside the single market.
Andrea Leadsom didn't say we would 100% be outside, in your own video
Poor ratings for Boris, related to the news on his retirement at some point next year as well I'm sure. Whilst his positive ratings were in the low to mid 40s his pool of voters was large enough to win an election, now with them dropping it isn't. I'd say Boris has a potential pool of voters of 56% of the electorate while Starmer can reach 75% of the electorate, that alone is beginning to tell in the headline VI.
This is before the Treasury starts to unwind what has made life easy for everyone. I'm not sure what will happen to the VI once the furlough has ended and a million or more people are moved to JSA and forced to find new work in fields they have no skills or training in. It may work out that this ends up like 2010-2019 and jobs are created out of the ashes of of a huge crash, but the people affected by it won't thank the government.
I’ve been thrown out of Huddersfield Wetherspoons. Was quite the low point.
We have two - which one? Cherry Tree or Lord Wilson.
Can’t remember - was too hammered.
I was once refuse entry to the club across the road from the Woking Spoons on the grounds that I was too drunk. I can assure you that takes some doing.
Poor ratings for Boris, related to the news on his retirement at some point next year as well I'm sure. Whilst his positive ratings were in the low to mid 40s his pool of voters was large enough to win an election, now with them dropping it isn't. I'd say Boris has a potential pool of voters of 56% of the electorate while Starmer can reach 75% of the electorate, that alone is beginning to tell in the headline VI.
This is before the Treasury starts to unwind what has made life easy for everyone. I'm not sure what will happen to the VI once the furlough has ended and a million or more people are moved to JSA and forced to find new work in fields they have no skills or training in. It may work out that this ends up like 2010-2019 and jobs are created out of the ashes of of a huge crash, but the people affected by it won't thank the government.
Presumably Mr Johnson has been ordered* to make his timeline clear? He gets to see Brexit throuigh but also becomes the convenient scapegoat for the assorted manure heaps accumulating on the path for the next 6 months?
Poor ratings for Boris, related to the news on his retirement at some point next year as well I'm sure. Whilst his positive ratings were in the low to mid 40s his pool of voters was large enough to win an election, now with them dropping it isn't. I'd say Boris has a potential pool of voters of 56% of the electorate while Starmer can reach 75% of the electorate, that alone is beginning to tell in the headline VI.
This is before the Treasury starts to unwind what has made life easy for everyone. I'm not sure what will happen to the VI once the furlough has ended and a million or more people are moved to JSA and forced to find new work in fields they have no skills or training in. It may work out that this ends up like 2010-2019 and jobs are created out of the ashes of of a huge crash, but the people affected by it won't thank the government.
Fascinating times ahead Max
Ther'e evidence from back benchers comments the tories are more worried about the 1-4 points they are losing to the BP than the 30-odd starmer is getting.
Its the former that's going to lose them their seats.
Comments
Remarkable all things considered that he's still leading on that metric.
This has potential for a lot of fun.
Purely metaphorically, of course.
I wouldn't think masks are a good idea in primary schools but for secondary schools they definitely could be. Each school probably knows itself how well socially distanced they have been able to rearrange the school and if they wish to encourage masks they would have my full support. If they think they're redundant then so be it too.
44% of those polled disapprove of Johnson while just 25% of those polled disapprove of Starmer. That's a big gap.
🐠
Let's imagine the numbers were flipped, if I said Labour leads on favourable Tories would go "oN NEt hE is BEHinD".
Hypocrisy as usual
But it still inside the Single Market so subject to EU Single Market laws, subject to payments for Single Market membership and (if you care about it, I don't) subject to Single Market rules on Free Movement.
That is why Leave campaigners (and Remain campaigners) were explicit that a vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the Single Market.
https://twitter.com/Will_Radley/status/1298245087214874624
Good.
Plus of course Johnson is polling as good or better than he was in approval ratings still today than he was before he won his landslide 80 seat majority.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1298254588160573440
Who is restraining you? Who?
But yes, it was a great tip.
"News of Radetsky's victory at Custoza prompted widespread jubilation in Vienna and was celebrated in August with the premiere of Johann Strauss's Redetsky March. In Lombardy, meanwhile all democratic government was torn up, military rule imposed and a reign of terror released on the countryside. Habsburg troops hunted down insurgents and sympathisers alike handing them over for public floggings and the hangman's noose. Concert goers who clap and stomp to the beat of The Radetsky March should recall just what they are cheering."
"There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it."
Being subject to Single Market money? I think billions of pounds of taxes could better go to the NHS etc - do you?
Single Market free movement - I'm not that fussed about this, though I do think we should treat everyone equally and not discriminate against [predominantly not white] the rest of the world in favour of discriminating in favour of the [predominantly white] Europeans. I think an eg Indian doctor should take priority for movement into the UK than eg a Romanian unskilled, unemployed migrant. But I'm not overly fussed personally.
And please don't share that discredited fake news video of out of context quotes that has been humiliatingly torn apart and discredited that tried to show the opposite.
So Starmer could be PM in a hung parliament but only with Labour, SNP, LD, PC, Green and SDLP and DUP support by taking the whole UK back into the EEA.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=41&LAB=37&LIB=9&Brexit=1&Green=4&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=21&SCOTLAB=19&SCOTLIB=6&SCOTBrexit=0&SCOTGreen=0&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=53&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019
"The museum said in a statement that the bust "has been redisplayed in the Enlightenment Gallery juxtaposed with objects that reflect that Sloane's collection was created in the context of the British Empire and the slave economy.
"The display acknowledges that Sloane's travels and collecting in colonial Jamaica used enslaved Africans and explores the fact that his collecting was partly financed from the labour of enslaved Africans on his wife’s sugar plantations."
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2015/01/owen-paterson-mp-why-ukip-is-wrong-about-immigration.html
It is critical to remember that the economic single market and the political EU are not one and the same thing. We can participate in the market as members of the European Economic Area without being saddled with the EU as a political project. Those, such as the business chiefs of the CBI, who confuse the memberships of the single market and the EU are making a basic error and misleading the British people.
This is where UKIP is wrong. Desperate to control immigration from the EU, the party has rejected continued membership of the single market within the EEA – which would place our economy at risk. In fact, as a member of the EEA but not the EU, we would not be bound by the European Court of Justice and its rulings on our benefits system. But, crucially, we could introduce “Safeguard Measures”, giving us an “emergency brake” on excessive migration – an option not available to us in the EU. We would get the benefits to business and the economy of free movement, with real power over our borders.
Wearing masks as a mitigating factor while reintroducing activities is a pretty benign intervention.
count them.
During the Referendum campaign the Leavers like Johnson united behind a proposal under Vote Leave and others like Farage united under an alternate one called Leave.EU and both were explicit and unequivocal that we would leave the Single Market.
Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and Boris Johnson all explicitly said in the days before the vote on the BBC at prime time that we would leave the Single Market. No ifs, no buts, no equivocation. If you didn't understand that then don't cry now - if you did understand that but don't like it then tough.
That is an answer.
But then again if you were being pedantic, you'd have correctly spelled cannelloni.
What makes you prefer EEA over Remaining or would you prefer to Remain?
What advantages do you see in Brexit and how does EEA achieve them?
But I can understand them explaining to people that you don't have to wear a mask and that they shouldn't expect others to do so.
Wearing one while you go through crowded passages like doorways and corridors until you sit at a table make sense. Telling people they don't need to is different to saying they're not allowed to.
However if Scotland went before 2024 then the Tories would still win a comfortable majority on the same poll so we would not go back to the EEA and either stay with a basic FTA with the EU or WTO terms.
So in effect whether we return to the EEA depends entirely on whether Scotland is still in the UK by the next general election or not regardless of the arguments for or against EEA here
https://www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-exclusive-england-set-u-turn-masks-schools
"The government is set to make a major U-turn by announcing that wearing face masks will be near-mandatory in communal areas of secondary schools, according to sources.
Tes understands that both Public Health England and the Department for Education have signed off on this new policy."
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-08-25/secondary-school-students-in-scotland-to-start-wearing-face-coverings-in-corridors-and-communal-areas
I'm not sure how many 5 year olds are on school buses, but it will be damn hard to get them to do it every day.
Once again we have the government's double bind instructions. Schools are safe, except they aren't. Children are safe, but they might not be. Transport is safe, but be careful. You should definitely go back to work NOW, but watch out! Nightclubs should be open, but only if you don;t do the one thing they exist for. To cop off. Social clubs can open, but no socialising. Contact sports, but no contact. Have fun, but no funny business.
There are a thousand more examples.
Its absurd and Insane, and what it stems from is total cowardice and a complete lack of leadership.
You are aware that a free trade agreement is not the same as the Single Market, are you not?
David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Andrea Leadsom, Micheal Gove, Boris Johnson and George Osborne all explicitly said that leaving the EU was leaving the Single Market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlF9STvLeDQ
Andrew Marr: Let me ask you, just before we leave the
economics actually, a very simple question I have tried to get an
answer to from various people on your side – is should we or
should we not be inside the single market? Do you want us to
stay inside the single market? Yes or no.
Michael Gove: No. We should be outside the single market.
This is before the Treasury starts to unwind what has made life easy for everyone. I'm not sure what will happen to the VI once the furlough has ended and a million or more people are moved to JSA and forced to find new work in fields they have no skills or training in. It may work out that this ends up like 2010-2019 and jobs are created out of the ashes of of a huge crash, but the people affected by it won't thank the government.
https://twitter.com/FCDWhittaker/status/1298262274830868480
The same ones which argued over whether to leave or remain. The EU, that is.
*By whom is a good question.
Its the former that's going to lose them their seats.