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  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    eristdoof said:

    First, good.
    Second, I thought it had been superseded by an additional, extended project, qualification
    Third, I thought it got axed about two to three years ago?
    At least 20 years ago it was not included in UCAS scores, and many uni departments ignored general studies completely, as it was a measure of the school you went to not the quality of the candidate.
    At my (grammar) school we did it one afternoon a week (combined with the sister girls school). But didn’t do the A-Level.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    In hindsight it’s a shame that the government decided this was the year to crack down on unconditional offers.

    More broadly the Tories, particularly Gove, have created a system that was always intended to base everything on one set of exams at the end of two years. Not particularly pandemic proof.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sorry can somebody explain these grade 5, grade 9s to me.

    New GCSE is 9-1, 9 being the highest.

    4 is the equivalent of a C grade in old money. 5 is a good C. 6 a B.

    7 an A, and 8 an A*.

    Not sure how it works in science, but in Humanities 9 is a subset of grade 8 - the top 500 candidates, I think - to differentiate at the top end.

    Which is why I never predict anyone a 9.
    What a moronic idea, changing a grading system using letters (which everyone understood) to a system using numbers (which only teachers understand).

    Never underestimate the propensity of the education sector to needlessly complicate things. It's maddening.
    People will come to understand it, given time.

    The issue with the way this change happened is that neither the exam boards nor OFQUAL understood it, which is how the 2018 GCSEs became a car crash.
    Nope. Golden rule is you don't change a brand that everyone understands.

    Needless fiddling for the sake of it: unfortunately that's a known trait of the education sector.
    I think there's a whole group of people, often calling themselves 'consultants', whose earnings depend on needlessly changing things.
  • So is what I've read correct that this year's grades are the highest ever ?
  • Does anyone have details about the hack ?

    And is there anything we need to do ?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Because it was pointless, and with the extra pressure on timetables and changes to the statutory PSHE regime there is no space for pointless any more.
    Teaching people how to think, analyse and argue is pointless? I found it a refreshing change from the more "academic" (sic) subjects.

    Bit like the Scottish government dropping economics.....
    I taught General Studies.

    I don't feel it did any of that, or at least, not well enough to justify the amount of time and effort put in.

    At the school where I taught it, it was brought in as part of a PSHE course by an ambitious deputy head trying to show impact.

    He got promoted to a Headship.

    The rest of us, when he had gone, took one look at each other and dropped it.
    My school had a 'rule' whereby the bright kids had to take four A-Levels, even though UCAS wanted only three (and wouldn't accept General Studies as one of them). So the wise among us 'took' General Studies then immediately dropped it on the first hour of the new term, so we could focus on getting three proper A-Levels. This annoyed the pen pushers no end but there was sod all they could do about it.

    Worked brilliantly for me.
    Lol, we had that rule too but no option for general studies or critical thinking. I ended up doing maths and the three sciences, I only did biology because I'd heard the field trip with the girls school was always pretty legendary. No regrets.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is from 2016, but I'm not surprised that Jake Humphrey has the same over-inflated sense of importance as Clarkson:

    https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/766177100403470336

    I find this slightly annoying too. One senses it's a way of boasting rather than boosting others. I'd quite like to see someone tweeting the same message but from the opposite direction -

    "Hey, kids. Ok so you got straight As. So did I. But I'm not defined by this. It's not who I am. I dropped out of uni and now I stack shelves at Tesco."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQBOepTtiM8
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Anecdotally it seems as though the Petty Nationalists in Downing Street have managed to screw up the results at least as badly as the Petty Nationalists at Holyrood.

    I admit, I didn't think they were capable.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Because it was pointless, and with the extra pressure on timetables and changes to the statutory PSHE regime there is no space for pointless any more.
    Teaching people how to think, analyse and argue is pointless? I found it a refreshing change from the more "academic" (sic) subjects.

    Bit like the Scottish government dropping economics.....
    I taught General Studies.

    I don't feel it did any of that, or at least, not well enough to justify the amount of time and effort put in.

    At the school where I taught it, it was brought in as part of a PSHE course by an ambitious deputy head trying to show impact.

    He got promoted to a Headship.

    The rest of us, when he had gone, took one look at each other and dropped it.
    My school had a 'rule' whereby the bright kids had to take four A-Levels, even though UCAS wanted only three (and wouldn't accept General Studies as one of them). So the wise among us 'took' General Studies then immediately dropped it on the first hour of the new term, so we could focus on getting three proper A-Levels. This annoyed the pen pushers no end but there was sod all they could do about it.

    Worked brilliantly for me.
    Lol, we had that rule too but no option for general studies or critical thinking. I ended up doing maths and the three sciences, I only did biology because I'd heard the field trip with the girls school was always pretty legendary. No regrets.
    Ummm...was the field trip about reproductive biology? Or was it a field trip, done jointly with a girls' school?

    Or was it the latter, but...
  • MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    The problem wasn’t the physical sitting of the exams, it was the huge disruption in the preparation for them and the disparity in how that would affect students from different sections of society. If you think the gap between The independent sector and state schools is bad now, imagine the effect of one sector having high quality online tuition while many in the state sector (particularly the poorest) would have little to no access to the same.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Stocky said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.
    If the furlough scheme was then good job the planning was done. If it wasn't then it was wonderfully creative.

    I doubt it regarding the Eat Out scheme. Personally we would never have gone out this weekend so our meal yesterday was definitely an extra one. Yesterday was our first meal out since February and having crossed that bridge and had a meal out now I'd feel a lot more confident to have another one next month even without the scheme.
    Glad to hear that.

    I`m sure it is working to some extent, but could this be to a very modest extent considering the cost? I wonder how much money is being shelled out to Costa and Starbucks, for instance?

    Our local pubs are fully booked Mon to Weds and turning people away. The same pubs have virtually no diners Thurs and Fri and only marginally more Sat and Sun. Who would eat out at full cost Thurs - Sun when you can go for half price Mon - Weds? Our local pub is having to hire temporary staff Mon-Weds only.

    My concern, then, is that custom is bottlenecking more than it is increasing overall, and the scheme represents poor value for money for taxpayers.
    The cost of the scheme is basically nothing, £50m per week, I'm almost certain that the furlough rate for restaurants and pubs is down to very small numbers with spending by punters taking over paying of wages. When one considers that the furlough costs £9bn per month to keep running and much of that in hospitality a £50m per week cost to get a huge number of those people into work again is a pittance.
  • kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    This is from 2016, but I'm not surprised that Jake Humphrey has the same over-inflated sense of importance as Clarkson:

    https://twitter.com/mrjakehumphrey/status/766177100403470336

    I find this slightly annoying too. One senses it's a way of boasting rather than boosting others. I'd quite like to see someone tweeting the same message but from the opposite direction -

    "Hey, kids. Ok so you got straight As. So did I. But I'm not defined by this. It's not who I am. I dropped out of uni and now I stack shelves at Tesco."
    Or spend my time posting on PB? 😀
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Because it was pointless, and with the extra pressure on timetables and changes to the statutory PSHE regime there is no space for pointless any more.
    Teaching people how to think, analyse and argue is pointless? I found it a refreshing change from the more "academic" (sic) subjects.

    Bit like the Scottish government dropping economics.....
    I taught General Studies.

    I don't feel it did any of that, or at least, not well enough to justify the amount of time and effort put in.

    At the school where I taught it, it was brought in as part of a PSHE course by an ambitious deputy head trying to show impact.

    He got promoted to a Headship.

    The rest of us, when he had gone, took one look at each other and dropped it.
    My school had a 'rule' whereby the bright kids had to take four A-Levels, even though UCAS wanted only three (and wouldn't accept General Studies as one of them). So the wise among us 'took' General Studies then immediately dropped it on the first hour of the new term, so we could focus on getting three proper A-Levels. This annoyed the pen pushers no end but there was sod all they could do about it.

    Worked brilliantly for me.
    Lol, we had that rule too but no option for general studies or critical thinking. I ended up doing maths and the three sciences, I only did biology because I'd heard the field trip with the girls school was always pretty legendary. No regrets.
    Ummm...was the field trip about reproductive biology? Or was it a field trip, done jointly with a girls' school?

    Or was it the latter, but...
    Jointly with the girls school, but ultimately both.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sorry can somebody explain these grade 5, grade 9s to me.

    New GCSE is 9-1, 9 being the highest.

    4 is the equivalent of a C grade in old money. 5 is a good C. 6 a B.

    7 an A, and 8 an A*.

    Not sure how it works in science, but in Humanities 9 is a subset of grade 8 - the top 500 candidates, I think - to differentiate at the top end.

    Which is why I never predict anyone a 9.
    What a moronic idea, changing a grading system using letters (which everyone understood) to a system using numbers (which only teachers understand).

    Never underestimate the propensity of the education sector to needlessly complicate things. It's maddening.
    People will come to understand it, given time.

    The issue with the way this change happened is that neither the exam boards nor OFQUAL understood it, which is how the 2018 GCSEs became a car crash.
    Nope. Golden rule is you don't change a brand that everyone understands.

    Needless fiddling for the sake of it: unfortunately that's a known trait of the education sector.
    I think there's a whole group of people, often calling themselves 'consultants', whose earnings depend on needlessly changing things.
    Exactly. Note how the teachers here have sought to defend it – as if understanding grades is a matter only for teachers!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    The problem wasn’t the physical sitting of the exams, it was the huge disruption in the preparation for them and the disparity in how that would affect students from different sections of society. If you think the gap between The independent sector and state schools is bad now, imagine the effect of one sector having high quality online tuition while many in the state sector (particularly the poorest) would have little to no access to the same.

    You can very easily make an allowance for that, this just seems completely random.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    MaxPB said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Because it was pointless, and with the extra pressure on timetables and changes to the statutory PSHE regime there is no space for pointless any more.
    Teaching people how to think, analyse and argue is pointless? I found it a refreshing change from the more "academic" (sic) subjects.

    Bit like the Scottish government dropping economics.....
    I taught General Studies.

    I don't feel it did any of that, or at least, not well enough to justify the amount of time and effort put in.

    At the school where I taught it, it was brought in as part of a PSHE course by an ambitious deputy head trying to show impact.

    He got promoted to a Headship.

    The rest of us, when he had gone, took one look at each other and dropped it.
    My school had a 'rule' whereby the bright kids had to take four A-Levels, even though UCAS wanted only three (and wouldn't accept General Studies as one of them). So the wise among us 'took' General Studies then immediately dropped it on the first hour of the new term, so we could focus on getting three proper A-Levels. This annoyed the pen pushers no end but there was sod all they could do about it.

    Worked brilliantly for me.
    Lol, we had that rule too but no option for general studies or critical thinking. I ended up doing maths and the three sciences, I only did biology because I'd heard the field trip with the girls school was always pretty legendary. No regrets.
    LOL – I see @ydoethur has got to the gag before me !!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sorry can somebody explain these grade 5, grade 9s to me.

    New GCSE is 9-1, 9 being the highest.

    4 is the equivalent of a C grade in old money. 5 is a good C. 6 a B.

    7 an A, and 8 an A*.

    Not sure how it works in science, but in Humanities 9 is a subset of grade 8 - the top 500 candidates, I think - to differentiate at the top end.

    Which is why I never predict anyone a 9.
    What a moronic idea, changing a grading system using letters (which everyone understood) to a system using numbers (which only teachers understand).

    Never underestimate the propensity of the education sector to needlessly complicate things. It's maddening.
    People will come to understand it, given time.

    The issue with the way this change happened is that neither the exam boards nor OFQUAL understood it, which is how the 2018 GCSEs became a car crash.
    Nope. Golden rule is you don't change a brand that everyone understands.

    Needless fiddling for the sake of it: unfortunately that's a known trait of the education sector.
    I think there's a whole group of people, often calling themselves 'consultants', whose earnings depend on needlessly changing things.
    Exactly. Note how the teachers here have sought to defend it – as if understanding grades is a matter only for teachers!
    I seem to remember saying it was easy to understand once you got used to it.

    Which would imply the opposite.

    I also seem to remember criticising the reform process, which after all was (mis)managed by Dominic Cummings.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Anecdotally it seems as though the Petty Nationalists in Downing Street have managed to screw up the results at least as badly as the Petty Nationalists at Holyrood.

    I admit, I didn't think they were capable.

    Don’t forget the ones in Cardiff and Belfast as well.
  • Nigelb said:

    6-1. This match isn't going to be a draw. :)

    Might be different with another drop.
    Now you've done it.
    That's it for England's chances.
    But if you've layed the draw, you're ok. Pakistan make 300+ they can easily go on to win.

    Netweather still saying no rain. BBC disagree. Can't both be right!
    BBC and Netweather both base their forecasts on the US GFS model - since their forecast data is made freely available to commercial forecasters.

    Why not use the Met Office forecast which uses the superior British forecast model?
    I thought the Beeb used the Met Office?

    Anyway my beef with all weather forecasters is not that they get it wrong from time to time. That's understandable; it's a difficult art. I want to know why they don't publish their results, at least not in a readily accessible form. Until they start doing so, they can be justly mocked as comparable to astrologers, producing waffly predictions that are never measured against the reality.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Stocky said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.
    If the furlough scheme was then good job the planning was done. If it wasn't then it was wonderfully creative.

    I doubt it regarding the Eat Out scheme. Personally we would never have gone out this weekend so our meal yesterday was definitely an extra one. Yesterday was our first meal out since February and having crossed that bridge and had a meal out now I'd feel a lot more confident to have another one next month even without the scheme.
    Glad to hear that.

    I`m sure it is working to some extent, but could this be to a very modest extent considering the cost? I wonder how much money is being shelled out to Costa and Starbucks, for instance?

    Our local pubs are fully booked Mon to Weds and turning people away. The same pubs have virtually no diners Thurs and Fri and only marginally more Sat and Sun. Who would eat out at full cost Thurs - Sun when you can go for half price Mon - Weds? Our local pub is having to hire temporary staff Mon-Weds only.

    My concern, then, is that custom is bottlenecking more than it is increasing overall, and the scheme represents poor value for money for taxpayers.
    I instinctively support the scheme because I love the idea of the government dabbling benevolently in the economy - but in practice I think the effect is on the whole what you are saying. Places are frantic and hard to get into Mon - Wed, then dead the rest of the time. That's my experience anyway. Still, Sunak is trying his best, I sense, and does care at least a little bit, and this scheme was imaginative and well executed in that a tenner off per person really is worth going out of your way for. They didn't mess about. "If we're doing this let's not piss about," was the sentiment. I like that aspect.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Scott_xP said:

    Anecdotally it seems as though the Petty Nationalists in Downing Street have managed to screw up the results at least as badly as the Petty Nationalists at Holyrood.

    I admit, I didn't think they were capable.

    Don’t forget the ones in Cardiff and Belfast as well.
    Drakeford isn't a nationalist, petty or otherwise. He's just a muppet.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    The problem wasn’t the physical sitting of the exams, it was the huge disruption in the preparation for them and the disparity in how that would affect students from different sections of society. If you think the gap between The independent sector and state schools is bad now, imagine the effect of one sector having high quality online tuition while many in the state sector (particularly the poorest) would have little to no access to the same.

    You can very easily make an allowance for that, this just seems completely random.
    “Very easily” is doing a lot of work there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    The problem wasn’t the physical sitting of the exams, it was the huge disruption in the preparation for them and the disparity in how that would affect students from different sections of society. If you think the gap between The independent sector and state schools is bad now, imagine the effect of one sector having high quality online tuition while many in the state sector (particularly the poorest) would have little to no access to the same.

    You can very easily make an allowance for that, this just seems completely random.
    “Very easily” is doing a lot of work there.
    Probably more work than OFQUAL did on their infamous algorithm.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Betting Post - Weather forecast rain for all 5 days of Test

    Cant see anything but a draw. 3 days lost out of 5

    Draw 2.08 Betfair

    DYOR
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Nigelb said:

    6-1. This match isn't going to be a draw. :)

    Might be different with another drop.
    Now you've done it.
    That's it for England's chances.
    But if you've layed the draw, you're ok. Pakistan make 300+ they can easily go on to win.

    Netweather still saying no rain. BBC disagree. Can't both be right!
    BBC and Netweather both base their forecasts on the US GFS model - since their forecast data is made freely available to commercial forecasters.

    Why not use the Met Office forecast which uses the superior British forecast model?
    I thought the Beeb used the Met Office?

    Anyway my beef with all weather forecasters is not that they get it wrong from time to time. That's understandable; it's a difficult art. I want to know why they don't publish their results, at least not in a readily accessible form. Until they start doing so, they can be justly mocked as comparable to astrologers, producing waffly predictions that are never measured against the reality.
    Beeb have used MeteoGroup since 2017.
  • MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    alex_ said:

    eristdoof said:

    First, good.
    Second, I thought it had been superseded by an additional, extended project, qualification
    Third, I thought it got axed about two to three years ago?
    At least 20 years ago it was not included in UCAS scores, and many uni departments ignored general studies completely, as it was a measure of the school you went to not the quality of the candidate.
    At my (grammar) school we did it one afternoon a week (combined with the sister girls school). But didn’t do the A-Level.
    When I took General Studies in 1980s it was accepted by JMB universities (which certainly included Leeds and included many other northern red bricks from memory).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    The problem wasn’t the physical sitting of the exams, it was the huge disruption in the preparation for them and the disparity in how that would affect students from different sections of society. If you think the gap between The independent sector and state schools is bad now, imagine the effect of one sector having high quality online tuition while many in the state sector (particularly the poorest) would have little to no access to the same.

    You can very easily make an allowance for that, this just seems completely random.
    “Very easily” is doing a lot of work there.
    Not really, and it leads to the fortuitous position of needing to boost grades rather than push them down.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Scott_xP said:
    That's easy.

    It's because they're stupid.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    I got an A in GS in 1983 on no teaching other than a quiz once a fortnight. It turns out that it is A level pub quiz, and I still do well with those.
  • Netweather have now conceded it is raining, so presumably they do have windows in their office and someone has looked out. Ah, if only bookmakers would allow us to change our bets after the event! :)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,247

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Speaking of overweight gammon..

    https://twitter.com/scottcobb/status/1292694221460328448?s=20

    The most amazing thing about this is that Alex Jones is 46 years old. Forty fcking six!

    Why use the word gammon?
    Because - as explained PT - it describes very well in a single word a white man who is past his prime and is a bit racist and so angry at lots of things that his blood boils.

    Is there a better word that captures all of this?
    You're looking silly here to be honest mate.
    You can demonstrate that by answering my question.
    Yes.

    Any word that doesn't refer to the race of the person being described is better.

    Why do you have to mention the colour? Is there a significant difference between a white past his prime racist angry man (like the man pictured before) and a non-white past his prime racist angry man?
    The precise thing we are seeking to describe is this particular type of thick white bloke who's rather racist and not in the first flush and always getting angry about stuff.

    Gammon is a snide and jokey reference to what can happen to skin tone when the blood boils.

    We all know the sort of bloke. And now we have a word that nails it. It does the job brilliantly and is not racist in any meaningful sense of that word. It's simply derogatory.

    I do not bandy it about - in fact today is the first time in ages - but there is no way I'm dropping it just because people who are forever downplaying real racism with accusations of "playing the race card" now play the race card to ludicrously try to claim that a word to describe a angry white racist bloke is racist.

    No. Gammon lives.

    It's a lexical weapon in the culture war. When they go low, we go high most of the time but sometimes we go low too - but with considerably more wit and intelligence.
    But calling people like Corbyn a gammon, what does it achieve?

    Why not just denounce angry old racists? Why do you need a word for his type?
    If a label is created, it allows others to whom it does not apply to be smeared by association.
  • Stocky said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.
    If the furlough scheme was then good job the planning was done. If it wasn't then it was wonderfully creative.

    I doubt it regarding the Eat Out scheme. Personally we would never have gone out this weekend so our meal yesterday was definitely an extra one. Yesterday was our first meal out since February and having crossed that bridge and had a meal out now I'd feel a lot more confident to have another one next month even without the scheme.
    Glad to hear that.

    I`m sure it is working to some extent, but could this be to a very modest extent considering the cost? I wonder how much money is being shelled out to Costa and Starbucks, for instance?

    Our local pubs are fully booked Mon to Weds and turning people away. The same pubs have virtually no diners Thurs and Fri and only marginally more Sat and Sun. Who would eat out at full cost Thurs - Sun when you can go for half price Mon - Weds? Our local pub is having to hire temporary staff Mon-Weds only.

    My concern, then, is that custom is bottlenecking more than it is increasing overall, and the scheme represents poor value for money for taxpayers.
    Many pubs and restaurants have always done early week promotions precisely because they know early week is going to be quiet so they want to bring people in but it rarely cannibalises weekend trade. Its quite possible the pub that is quiet Thu-Sun now without the promotion may have been quiet Mon-Sun.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    If the government had started off with "our intention is to hold the exams, even if they are a little bit later than usual" then schools and students would have had to plan around that not the current situation where everyone slacked off because they know exams were no longer on the table. I also think it would have been easier to sell upwards adjustments for schools with lesser resources for distance learning than what we have now where teachers in those schools seem to have been encouraged to overestimate grades.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Foxy said:

    I got an A in GS in 1983 on no teaching other than a quiz once a fortnight. It turns out that it is A level pub quiz, and I still do well with those.
    You do pub quizzes on A-levels?

    Sounds like a niche hobby.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited August 2020
    Foxy said:

    I got an A in GS in 1983 on no teaching other than a quiz once a fortnight. It turns out that it is A level pub quiz, and I still do well with those.
    Similiarly, I remember doing the exam with no specific tuition.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Nigelb said:

    6-1. This match isn't going to be a draw. :)

    Might be different with another drop.
    Now you've done it.
    That's it for England's chances.
    But if you've layed the draw, you're ok. Pakistan make 300+ they can easily go on to win.

    Netweather still saying no rain. BBC disagree. Can't both be right!
    BBC and Netweather both base their forecasts on the US GFS model - since their forecast data is made freely available to commercial forecasters.

    Why not use the Met Office forecast which uses the superior British forecast model?
    I thought the Beeb used the Met Office?

    Anyway my beef with all weather forecasters is not that they get it wrong from time to time. That's understandable; it's a difficult art. I want to know why they don't publish their results, at least not in a readily accessible form. Until they start doing so, they can be justly mocked as comparable to astrologers, producing waffly predictions that are never measured against the reality.
    Not any more, they use MeteoGroup, which uses GFS and ECM to make its forecasts.

    The Met Office are used by ITV.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    The problem wasn’t the physical sitting of the exams, it was the huge disruption in the preparation for them and the disparity in how that would affect students from different sections of society. If you think the gap between The independent sector and state schools is bad now, imagine the effect of one sector having high quality online tuition while many in the state sector (particularly the poorest) would have little to no access to the same.

    You can very easily make an allowance for that, this just seems completely random.
    “Very easily” is doing a lot of work there.
    Not really, and it leads to the fortuitous position of needing to boost grades rather than push them down.
    Not really and it means that the home life of the pupils would affect them far, far more than it would have otherwise. A hard-working, bright but poor pupil without broadband at home that would have worked hard at school and done well is going to struggle much more with remote at home learning. Whereas those at good schools with good broadband and pushy parents will have been able to cope much better.
  • MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    But how much new work would they have done between the middle of March and the exams ?

    Isn't it pretty much all revision from that time onwards ?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Also - I think sitting A-levels is a rite of passage, it's the first serious exam with something important hinging on the results. This cohort now has no experience of going into an exam hall where what you do for the next 3 hours can have life altering outcomes. That's a huge loss for mental toughness IMO.
  • kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.
    If the furlough scheme was then good job the planning was done. If it wasn't then it was wonderfully creative.

    I doubt it regarding the Eat Out scheme. Personally we would never have gone out this weekend so our meal yesterday was definitely an extra one. Yesterday was our first meal out since February and having crossed that bridge and had a meal out now I'd feel a lot more confident to have another one next month even without the scheme.
    Glad to hear that.

    I`m sure it is working to some extent, but could this be to a very modest extent considering the cost? I wonder how much money is being shelled out to Costa and Starbucks, for instance?

    Our local pubs are fully booked Mon to Weds and turning people away. The same pubs have virtually no diners Thurs and Fri and only marginally more Sat and Sun. Who would eat out at full cost Thurs - Sun when you can go for half price Mon - Weds? Our local pub is having to hire temporary staff Mon-Weds only.

    My concern, then, is that custom is bottlenecking more than it is increasing overall, and the scheme represents poor value for money for taxpayers.
    I instinctively support the scheme because I love the idea of the government dabbling benevolently in the economy - but in practice I think the effect is on the whole what you are saying. Places are frantic and hard to get into Mon - Wed, then dead the rest of the time. That's my experience anyway. Still, Sunak is trying his best, I sense, and does care at least a little bit, and this scheme was imaginative and well executed in that a tenner off per person really is worth going out of your way for. They didn't mess about. "If we're doing this let's not piss about," was the sentiment. I like that aspect.
    Don't forget for a pub or restaurant's business model being busy three nights a week and quiet four is what they're probably quite used to anyway. In normal circumstances the overwhelming majority of trade is taken just Friday to Sunday, with anything taken early week essentially being 'bonus' but not their bread and butter.

    In July it didn't seem like any pubs or restaurants were packed three nights a week so if they are now that's progress.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    But how much new work would they have done between the middle of March and the exams ?

    Isn't it pretty much all revision from that time onwards ?
    And it's March to May with a two week holiday, June is exam time. It was actually a loss of two months where few to no new core concepts from the curriculum would have been covered. As I said, it was a massive overreaction from the DfE to cancel the exams.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Presumably a glimpse of what lurks up Nige's shorts will be as good a deterrent to the invading armada of refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants as anything Priti can come up with.

    https://twitter.com/RogerQuimbly/status/1293883882375438336?s=20
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    If the government had started off with "our intention is to hold the exams, even if they are a little bit later than usual" then schools and students would have had to plan around that not the current situation where everyone slacked off because they know exams were no longer on the table. I also think it would have been easier to sell upwards adjustments for schools with lesser resources for distance learning than what we have now where teachers in those schools seem to have been encouraged to overestimate grades.
    For some subjects (e.g. Art or DT) where there is a huge amount of coursework it would have been a complete non-starter. Even in the sciences if there were still required practicals to do those pupils would have been at a big disadvantage. Moreover those disadvantages would have been different for different schools, different subjects within each school, different teachers within each subject and even different pupils within each class. Given how badly they did with a much more limited set of data to process, I can’t see how trying to do this wouldn’t have ended even worse.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    TWO ANECDOTES:

    1) Daughter of a friend predicted A*, A, A. Received B, B, C. Failed to get into first choice Uni.

    2) Friend last week lost her sense of smell, felt rotten, went to get tested, results were "inconclusive". Feels fine now.

    I have managed with these anecdotes to incorporate the vast swathe of PB topics. But wait, one more:

    3) Some, many, perhaps most Brexiters are TAPS.

    Your welcome.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.
    If the furlough scheme was then good job the planning was done. If it wasn't then it was wonderfully creative.

    I doubt it regarding the Eat Out scheme. Personally we would never have gone out this weekend so our meal yesterday was definitely an extra one. Yesterday was our first meal out since February and having crossed that bridge and had a meal out now I'd feel a lot more confident to have another one next month even without the scheme.
    Glad to hear that.

    I`m sure it is working to some extent, but could this be to a very modest extent considering the cost? I wonder how much money is being shelled out to Costa and Starbucks, for instance?

    Our local pubs are fully booked Mon to Weds and turning people away. The same pubs have virtually no diners Thurs and Fri and only marginally more Sat and Sun. Who would eat out at full cost Thurs - Sun when you can go for half price Mon - Weds? Our local pub is having to hire temporary staff Mon-Weds only.

    My concern, then, is that custom is bottlenecking more than it is increasing overall, and the scheme represents poor value for money for taxpayers.
    I instinctively support the scheme because I love the idea of the government dabbling benevolently in the economy - but in practice I think the effect is on the whole what you are saying. Places are frantic and hard to get into Mon - Wed, then dead the rest of the time. That's my experience anyway. Still, Sunak is trying his best, I sense, and does care at least a little bit, and this scheme was imaginative and well executed in that a tenner off per person really is worth going out of your way for. They didn't mess about. "If we're doing this let's not piss about," was the sentiment. I like that aspect.
    Don't forget for a pub or restaurant's business model being busy three nights a week and quiet four is what they're probably quite used to anyway. In normal circumstances the overwhelming majority of trade is taken just Friday to Sunday, with anything taken early week essentially being 'bonus' but not their bread and butter.

    In July it didn't seem like any pubs or restaurants were packed three nights a week so if they are now that's progress.
    Yep. The scheme is working and well well IMO and experience.

    The pubs round here don't have much of a problem filling their beer gardens on a Saturday, so this is a nice bonus for them.

    Like @kinabalu , I'm buoyed that a supposedly 'rightwing' government is prepared to intervene in crucial sectors of the economy to protect people's livelihoods and our way of life.

    Pubs are the backbone of Britain.

    That all said, the dinner I had last night was very ordinary (although the beer was good!).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    If the government had started off with "our intention is to hold the exams, even if they are a little bit later than usual" then schools and students would have had to plan around that not the current situation where everyone slacked off because they know exams were no longer on the table. I also think it would have been easier to sell upwards adjustments for schools with lesser resources for distance learning than what we have now where teachers in those schools seem to have been encouraged to overestimate grades.
    For some subjects (e.g. Art or DT) where there is a huge amount of coursework it would have been a complete non-starter. Even in the sciences if there were still required practicals to do those pupils would have been at a big disadvantage. Moreover those disadvantages would have been different for different schools, different subjects within each school, different teachers within each subject and even different pupils within each class. Given how badly they did with a much more limited set of data to process, I can’t see how trying to do this wouldn’t have ended even worse.
    Why would the coursework not be completed? The school year was disrupted in late March and then there was two weeks off for Easter, then it's only 6 weeks until school would be off anyway because exams would have started. Again, adjustments for practical exams etc... could be made and tbh, I don't see how anything could be worse than this.
  • Nigelb said:

    6-1. This match isn't going to be a draw. :)

    Might be different with another drop.
    Now you've done it.
    That's it for England's chances.
    But if you've layed the draw, you're ok. Pakistan make 300+ they can easily go on to win.

    Netweather still saying no rain. BBC disagree. Can't both be right!
    BBC and Netweather both base their forecasts on the US GFS model - since their forecast data is made freely available to commercial forecasters.

    Why not use the Met Office forecast which uses the superior British forecast model?
    I thought the Beeb used the Met Office?

    Anyway my beef with all weather forecasters is not that they get it wrong from time to time. That's understandable; it's a difficult art. I want to know why they don't publish their results, at least not in a readily accessible form. Until they start doing so, they can be justly mocked as comparable to astrologers, producing waffly predictions that are never measured against the reality.
    Not any more, they use MeteoGroup, which uses GFS and ECM to make its forecasts.

    The Met Office are used by ITV.
    Noted with thanks, but if none of them publish results who knows which is best?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    The bails are being glued back on...
  • MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    But how much new work would they have done between the middle of March and the exams ?

    Isn't it pretty much all revision from that time onwards ?
    It very much depends: in a good school with cooperative pupils and a stable set of teachers (who haven’t, for instance had to take three weeks off due to illness) then perhaps. Some schools (or just some teachers) prefer to teach more slowly to make sure the concepts are fully embedded rather than barrel through the curriculum as rapidly as possible and pick up any problems in the past paper work. And if you know you have until the middle of May why wouldn’t you?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191

    I will always remember getting my exam results as it was a very unique date when I did. At the time I lived in the Southern Hemisphere and did the International Baccalaureate as I knew I was coming home the next year. The IB results for the Southern Hemisphere are normally released in January but they were brought forward uniquely for our year due to not wanting to risk issues with high profile concerns over technical computer issues.

    So we got our results on the 31 December 1999. Went into school to collect our results, then went out with my friends to celebrate ending up by the waterfront of Melbourne for a fireworks display and party to bring in the New Year/Millenium.

    A pretty unique, unforgettable and special day. :grin:

    Pedant mode on:
    “Very unique”? I had thought you better than that.

    I am seriously impressed if you partied from 1999 all the way to the new millennium though; even for Australia that is going it some!

    Pedant mode off
    I don't think there's anything pedantically wrong with saying "very unique" in that circumstance. There are times that it is acceptable to use the adjective very with the word unique and I think that is one of them. Getting your exam results is unique for everyone as it is a one off event that happens once in a lifetime. Technically every date is unique since every date occurs only once. 13/08/20 is a unique date but besides for those getting their results today it is for most people just a normal day. So yes I stand with getting results on 31/12/1999 as very unique.

    Pedantry on the Millenium holds more water.
    "Very unique" doesn't bother me much, but if you want to stay on the right side of the pedants just use something like "really unique"
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    tlg86 said:

    One thing that won’t happen this year is a massive cock-up by the exam boards themselves. I’ve seen A* candidates get a D or E because the board forgot to add in the mark for one paper or transposed the digits (91% becomes 19% for example). In some cases this has cost people their university place as by the time it had been sorted it had gone to someone else.
    Sometimes a department will get all their students downgraded for no particular reason, and trying to get any exam board to admit that they have made a mistake is like trying to get blood from a stone.
    Obviously there will be students who will not get what they deserve this year, and the way Ofqual have gone about things is not helping. But let’s not pretend that the way things normally go is perfect either.

    BiB - Seriously? That's beyond terrible.
    That happened in my school in English Lit 'O' level many years ago. Nothing much changes.

    A lot of 'A' students who went on to get an A at A Level got Bs, Cs and Ds. I got an A in the mock exam and was awarded a U in the real one. The entire school year was affected.

    I was advised not to challenge it as it wasn't likely to be upgraded very much and a U didn't appear on the certificate. I didn't really care as I did science A levels anyway, so it remains a badge of honour more than anything.

    At A level it would of course been a much bigger problem.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Nigelb said:

    6-1. This match isn't going to be a draw. :)

    Might be different with another drop.
    Now you've done it.
    That's it for England's chances.
    But if you've layed the draw, you're ok. Pakistan make 300+ they can easily go on to win.

    Netweather still saying no rain. BBC disagree. Can't both be right!
    BBC and Netweather both base their forecasts on the US GFS model - since their forecast data is made freely available to commercial forecasters.

    Why not use the Met Office forecast which uses the superior British forecast model?
    I thought the Beeb used the Met Office?

    Anyway my beef with all weather forecasters is not that they get it wrong from time to time. That's understandable; it's a difficult art. I want to know why they don't publish their results, at least not in a readily accessible form. Until they start doing so, they can be justly mocked as comparable to astrologers, producing waffly predictions that are never measured against the reality.
    Not any more, they use MeteoGroup, which uses GFS and ECM to make its forecasts.

    The Met Office are used by ITV.
    Noted with thanks, but if none of them publish results who knows which is best?
    All of the so-called 'Big Three' models (GFS, ECM and UKMO) are verified retrospectively. I don't have the relevant links to hand but there are there if you mooch around.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    If you want to know whether it's going to rain, look at the radar.

    http://www.raintoday.co.uk
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Good news. Look North managed to get footage of 3 pretty girls opening their results.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's easy.

    It's because they're stupid.
    Wouldn't it be a bonus for a Conservative government that the system favours private schools?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    That's easy.

    It's because they're stupid.
    Wouldn't it be a bonus for a Conservative government that the system favours private schools?
    It might. But with this lot, look for cock up before conspiracy.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    If the government had started off with "our intention is to hold the exams, even if they are a little bit later than usual" then schools and students would have had to plan around that not the current situation where everyone slacked off because they know exams were no longer on the table. I also think it would have been easier to sell upwards adjustments for schools with lesser resources for distance learning than what we have now where teachers in those schools seem to have been encouraged to overestimate grades.
    For some subjects (e.g. Art or DT) where there is a huge amount of coursework it would have been a complete non-starter. Even in the sciences if there were still required practicals to do those pupils would have been at a big disadvantage. Moreover those disadvantages would have been different for different schools, different subjects within each school, different teachers within each subject and even different pupils within each class. Given how badly they did with a much more limited set of data to process, I can’t see how trying to do this wouldn’t have ended even worse.
    Why would the coursework not be completed? The school year was disrupted in late March and then there was two weeks off for Easter, then it's only 6 weeks until school would be off anyway because exams would have started. Again, adjustments for practical exams etc... could be made and tbh, I don't see how anything could be worse than this.
    For Art and DT the exam IS the coursework (or to be more precise in Art the coursework is both preparation for the exam and marked in its own right). If you know you have until the middle of May to get something done (and remember it is work that has to be done in school unless you happen to have a fully equipped art room or even more unlikely DT workshop) then how likely are you to have finished six weeks early?

    The Y13s I taught were probably as well prepared as they could have been and I would have backed them to do just as well in a summer exam as if they had been in school. There were an awful lot of students for whom that would not have been true and trying to find a way to account for the individual circumstances would have made this look easy.
  • If you want to know whether it's going to rain, look at the radar.

    http://www.raintoday.co.uk

    That tells me if it is raining, but if it is the best we have for forecasting then we don't need the forecasters, do we?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    tlg86 said:

    One thing that won’t happen this year is a massive cock-up by the exam boards themselves. I’ve seen A* candidates get a D or E because the board forgot to add in the mark for one paper or transposed the digits (91% becomes 19% for example). In some cases this has cost people their university place as by the time it had been sorted it had gone to someone else.
    Sometimes a department will get all their students downgraded for no particular reason, and trying to get any exam board to admit that they have made a mistake is like trying to get blood from a stone.
    Obviously there will be students who will not get what they deserve this year, and the way Ofqual have gone about things is not helping. But let’s not pretend that the way things normally go is perfect either.

    BiB - Seriously? That's beyond terrible.
    That happened in my school in English Lit 'O' level many years ago. Nothing much changes.

    A lot of 'A' students who went on to get an A at A Level got Bs, Cs and Ds. I got an A in the mock exam and was awarded a U in the real one. The entire school year was affected.

    I was advised not to challenge it as it wasn't likely to be upgraded very much and a U didn't appear on the certificate. I didn't really care as I did science A levels anyway, so it remains a badge of honour more than anything.

    At A level it would of course been a much bigger problem.
    Finally I have an explanation for why I got an E at O-Level English Lit! I sat it in 1983.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited August 2020
    Stocky said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Has Williamson resigned yet?

    One thought that occurs to me is that unlike in Scotland this is part 1 of 2.

    And next week will be much worse as the algorithm was far more important in GCSE results, and the damage done to grades of students in historically weak schools in core subjects, e.g. Maths and English, could be immense.

    So although he hasn’t resigned yet, it’s only just beginning.
    It is expected Boris will refresh his cabinet in September and Williamson needs to be demoted, along with several others
    But it doesn’t work like that, does it? If he appointed by ability and competence, about the only ones to survive a purge would be Sunak, Wallace, Buckland, Coffey and Hart.

    And that includes Johnson himself.
    Johnson has a track record of success and undeniable ability and competence.
    He has a track record of electoral success, and undeniable ability at campaigning.

    I’m struggling to think of any time he’s shown competence. He couldn’t even read an autocue correctly on Have I Got News For You.
    For a party leader electoral success is one of the most important elements of competence required. That extends to a Prime Minister too under a Cabinet style of government - Sunak is more competent Chancellor than Dodds or McDonnell would be and its only because of Boris's electoral success that we have Sunak.
    How do you know? They have never been tested, what you actually mean is that Sunak does things I like and agree with the others ‘might’ not. Sunak as yet has not been tested he has just doled out money come back in two years and maybe a value judgement can be made on his ability.
    Sunak has been tested more than most Chancellors ever would already and has so far done a very impressive job - far better than just doling out money.

    The furlough scheme was set up with unprecedented efficiency and worked.
    During his summer emergency jobs statement he identified where the economy was really struggling and came out with very targeted proposals rather than blanket ones.

    The one masterstroke other than the furlough scheme was the Eat Out scheme which cost the Treasury a miniscule amount of money in the COVID scheme of things but has had a transformative impact. When it was announced my first reaction was it was a bit gimmicky, but I was wrong it was quite intelligent and well thought through. It is getting a very powerful return on the money spent by the Treasury compared to any proposed alternatives. We were out yesterday at a local restaurant which we wouldn't have gone to had it not been for the scheme, the restaurant was fully booked out which would never normally happen on a Wednesday.
    I wonder if the furlough scheme was one of those left over from the trashed 'pandemic planning' of ...... when was it ...... 2018?
    I think the Eat out scheme has partly, but not entirely, transferred eating out from later in the week.
    If the furlough scheme was then good job the planning was done. If it wasn't then it was wonderfully creative.

    I doubt it regarding the Eat Out scheme. Personally we would never have gone out this weekend so our meal yesterday was definitely an extra one. Yesterday was our first meal out since February and having crossed that bridge and had a meal out now I'd feel a lot more confident to have another one next month even without the scheme.
    Glad to hear that.

    I`m sure it is working to some extent, but could this be to a very modest extent considering the cost? I wonder how much money is being shelled out to Costa and Starbucks, for instance?

    Our local pubs are fully booked Mon to Weds and turning people away. The same pubs have virtually no diners Thurs and Fri and only marginally more Sat and Sun. Who would eat out at full cost Thurs - Sun when you can go for half price Mon - Weds? Our local pub is having to hire temporary staff Mon-Weds only.

    My concern, then, is that custom is bottlenecking more than it is increasing overall, and the scheme represents poor value for money for taxpayers.
    Isn't there a 10 pound cap per person? A way to help prevent the bottlenecking would be to also run the scheme on Thursdays and Fridays but with a 5 pound cap.

    I'm guessing the people in Government/Civil Service were thinking that people who go to a restaurant Fri-Sun with no scheme would carry on doing so. Which might well be true for most earning over 60K like government ministers and top civil servants. But in reality a lot of people on midde incomes have switched which night they go out.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    F1: qualifying modes to be banned from Belgium onwards:
    https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1293881966736093196
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited August 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Also - I think sitting A-levels is a rite of passage, it's the first serious exam with something important hinging on the results. This cohort now has no experience of going into an exam hall where what you do for the next 3 hours can have life altering outcomes. That's a huge loss for mental toughness IMO.

    Winners and losers here. A levels are indeed a rite of passage, they are tough and stressful, and if you do well it gives a sense of achievement. This cannot be replicated by estimated grades. OTOH there will be many children who would have underperformed on the day due to nerves etc and they have been spared that.

    On balance, given the circumstances, I think it's a net negative for kids that they have lost the chance to do real exams and so if the estimated results err on the generous side this for me is justifiable. Rather a macro 2020 grade inflation issue than a load of individual real children being disadvantaged by being on the wrong side of an algorithm. Although some will have been of course. That's inevitable.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,595
    Do we have any idea why or how the site was hacked?
  • TOPPING said:

    TWO ANECDOTES:

    1) Daughter of a friend predicted A*, A, A. Received B, B, C. Failed to get into first choice Uni.

    I feel for her - its absolutely awful what these wazzocks have done to education. Couldn't have screwed up any harder had that been their intention.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    F1: qualifying modes to be banned from Belgium onwards:
    https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1293881966736093196

    Vettel could be a new man for this weekend's Spanish GP.

    They found he had a problem with his "monocoque" last time and it's now fixed.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    If the government had started off with "our intention is to hold the exams, even if they are a little bit later than usual" then schools and students would have had to plan around that not the current situation where everyone slacked off because they know exams were no longer on the table. I also think it would have been easier to sell upwards adjustments for schools with lesser resources for distance learning than what we have now where teachers in those schools seem to have been encouraged to overestimate grades.
    In Germany the final school exams (Abitur) were held mid April to Early May. The schools were closed for normal teaching. OK Corona was then at lower levels in Germany than the UK, but the exam time in the UK is mostly in June when the levels would have been similar.

    Just sticking my oar in!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Kinabalu, yeah, apparently an Italian Harry Potter lookalike was caught breaking the chassis.

    Ferrari should do relatively better, but I think Verstappen, Albon, and maybe Renault are ones to watch as well.

    Critical for the title race this weekend. If the heat is Mercedes' problem it should show up here as well. If it was the Silverstone-specific tyre wear then they're still on for easy titles.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    edited August 2020

    F1: qualifying modes to be banned from Belgium onwards:
    https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1293881966736093196

    No fun! I like the idea of party modes on engines though - didn't they used to turn the BMW Turbo up to about 1,500bhp in the good old days of early 80s party modes?

    Incidentally, if you want to know what todays F1 cars would be like on the old Spa circuit watch this. Ferrari V12 from 5:50, Williams Hybrid from 9:30 ... https://youtu.be/AoCGmoY1-QA?t=569
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,247
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    I got an A in GS in 1983 on no teaching other than a quiz once a fortnight. It turns out that it is A level pub quiz, and I still do well with those.
    Similiarly, I remember doing the exam with no specific tuition.
    My school did GS but specifically did not do the exams because they were so worthless.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TWO ANECDOTES:

    1) Daughter of a friend predicted A*, A, A. Received B, B, C. Failed to get into first choice Uni.

    I feel for her - its absolutely awful what these wazzocks have done to education. Couldn't have screwed up any harder had that been their intention.

    I am intrigued and I will follow up (it wasn't the time earlier) - do the admission tutors just sit there and say "well we told her to get that and she didn't get it so we can't take her"?

    Surely not?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,247

    F1: qualifying modes to be banned from Belgium onwards:
    https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1293881966736093196

    No fun! I like the idea of party modes on engines though - didn't they used to turn the BMW Turbo up to about 1,500bhp in the good old days of early 80s party modes?

    Incidentally, if you want to know what todays F1 cars would be like on the old Spa circuit watch this. Ferrari V12 from 5:50, Williams Hybrid from 9:30 ... https://youtu.be/AoCGmoY1-QA?t=569
    I think they were called "grenade" engines designed to last for just a few laps.

    https://www.mclaren.com/racing/car/history-of-the-f1-engine/
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,681
    edited August 2020

    Nigelb said:

    6-1. This match isn't going to be a draw. :)

    Might be different with another drop.
    Now you've done it.
    That's it for England's chances.
    But if you've layed the draw, you're ok. Pakistan make 300+ they can easily go on to win.

    Netweather still saying no rain. BBC disagree. Can't both be right!
    BBC and Netweather both base their forecasts on the US GFS model - since their forecast data is made freely available to commercial forecasters.

    Why not use the Met Office forecast which uses the superior British forecast model?
    I thought the Beeb used the Met Office?

    Anyway my beef with all weather forecasters is not that they get it wrong from time to time. That's understandable; it's a difficult art. I want to know why they don't publish their results, at least not in a readily accessible form. Until they start doing so, they can be justly mocked as comparable to astrologers, producing waffly predictions that are never measured against the reality.
    Not any more, they use MeteoGroup, which uses GFS and ECM to make its forecasts.

    The Met Office are used by ITV.
    Noted with thanks, but if none of them publish results who knows which is best?
    All of the so-called 'Big Three' models (GFS, ECM and UKMO) are verified retrospectively. I don't have the relevant links to hand but there are there if you mooch around.

    ECMWF used to do better at long range.

    Of course, to get local forecasts you really need to run a local model. GFS is a 'global' model, whereas the UKMO run both global and local models. I'm not sure about ECM - there are a number of local European models (eg EURO4) but whether they run any I'm not 100% sure

    You can run your own local WRF model using GFS inputs if you are so inclined...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Good grief. Rory Burns has caught one.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,247
    edited August 2020

    Netweather have now conceded it is raining, so presumably they do have windows in their office and someone has looked out. Ah, if only bookmakers would allow us to change our bets after the event! :)

    It's not raining here, and I have some bushes arriving later this week, and the water butt is only half full :neutral:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    eristdoof said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    If the government had started off with "our intention is to hold the exams, even if they are a little bit later than usual" then schools and students would have had to plan around that not the current situation where everyone slacked off because they know exams were no longer on the table. I also think it would have been easier to sell upwards adjustments for schools with lesser resources for distance learning than what we have now where teachers in those schools seem to have been encouraged to overestimate grades.
    In Germany the final school exams (Abitur) were held mid April to Early May. The schools were closed for normal teaching. OK Corona was then at lower levels in Germany than the UK, but the exam time in the UK is mostly in June when the levels would have been similar.

    Just sticking my oar in!
    Yes, I think by the time June came the infection rate was low enough to get the exams done, but the decision to cancel them was already made and the couldn't suddenly reverse that and ask students to sit exams with no preparation. By the 8th of June the daily cases were down to under 1k on the rolling average with well over 100k tests conducted per day by then. The rush to be looking to do something has had some really bad consequences, Williamson should resign, but he won't and Boris won't sack him.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Andy_JS said:

    Do we have any idea why or how the site was hacked?

    Yes, I wonder.

    If people have an email / password combo for here that also works for other things they should change it on those other things pronto.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Needed my money back so backed Clinton for the nomination at 129/1.

    Possibly my worst bet ever which wasn't an automatic cashout.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,247
    edited August 2020

    Does anyone have details about the hack ?

    And is there anything we need to do ?

    Tentatively I think you probably don't - other than perhaps run your normal scans, and do a CCleaner etc.

    It looks again tentatively to me to be a server side compromise of the software platform, which would need a fresh install of WP if that is the software, and perhaps a fresh OS install.

    Either way it would take some time to build, rebuild the archive, and test etc.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,247

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    Surely that depends how many members of the football team have been hosting sex parties.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    tlg86 said:

    One thing that won’t happen this year is a massive cock-up by the exam boards themselves. I’ve seen A* candidates get a D or E because the board forgot to add in the mark for one paper or transposed the digits (91% becomes 19% for example). In some cases this has cost people their university place as by the time it had been sorted it had gone to someone else.
    Sometimes a department will get all their students downgraded for no particular reason, and trying to get any exam board to admit that they have made a mistake is like trying to get blood from a stone.
    Obviously there will be students who will not get what they deserve this year, and the way Ofqual have gone about things is not helping. But let’s not pretend that the way things normally go is perfect either.

    BiB - Seriously? That's beyond terrible.
    That happened in my school in English Lit 'O' level many years ago. Nothing much changes.

    A lot of 'A' students who went on to get an A at A Level got Bs, Cs and Ds. I got an A in the mock exam and was awarded a U in the real one. The entire school year was affected.

    I was advised not to challenge it as it wasn't likely to be upgraded very much and a U didn't appear on the certificate. I didn't really care as I did science A levels anyway, so it remains a badge of honour more than anything.

    At A level it would of course been a much bigger problem.
    Finally I have an explanation for why I got an E at O-Level English Lit! I sat it in 1983.
    I am embarrassed to say I got a B in History at O Level; otherwise straight As.
    Which is why I can never criticise @ydoethur .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TOPPING said:

    TWO ANECDOTES:

    1) Daughter of a friend predicted A*, A, A. Received B, B, C. Failed to get into first choice Uni.

    2) Friend last week lost her sense of smell, felt rotten, went to get tested, results were "inconclusive". Feels fine now.

    I have managed with these anecdotes to incorporate the vast swathe of PB topics. But wait, one more:

    3) Some, many, perhaps most Brexiters are TAPS.

    Your welcome.

    Re (1) -

    Was she a bright pupil at a school that does not manage many As?

    I gather that combination is especially vulnerable to the algo.
  • eristdoof said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just catching up with the schools fiasco. Looks like Gavin needs a dunce hat. Though he hasn't been helped by teachers massively over estimating the capability of their students. Even at the time loads of people said cancelling exams was a poor idea, now it has come to pass and thousands of young people will pay the price. The government should have done what the Premier League did and taken a cautious tone, hopeful about sitting exams when it was safe to do so.

    It would have been safe to sit them by the beginning of July when the infection rate was just a few hundred per day. Even if it meant needing multiple sittings consecutively for the same exam and having holding rooms etc... in case the exam halls weren't big enough. Even putting up temporary marquees in large outdoor venues would have been acceptable.

    F1 has managed to hold a 13 race season with the option of two more races, it was not beyond the wit of man to hold A-levels at least. The lack of creativity in the DfE and teaching unions is truly lamentable.

    Surely the issue is not the lack of time to safely hold the exams, but the issue of months of lost education before the exams?

    A professional footballer or a professional race team can quickly get up and running with short notice - an adolescent teenager being expected at short notice to make up for months of education having been wiped out and then sitting the exam is another matter.
    If the government had started off with "our intention is to hold the exams, even if they are a little bit later than usual" then schools and students would have had to plan around that not the current situation where everyone slacked off because they know exams were no longer on the table. I also think it would have been easier to sell upwards adjustments for schools with lesser resources for distance learning than what we have now where teachers in those schools seem to have been encouraged to overestimate grades.
    In Germany the final school exams (Abitur) were held mid April to Early May. The schools were closed for normal teaching. OK Corona was then at lower levels in Germany than the UK, but the exam time in the UK is mostly in June when the levels would have been similar.

    Just sticking my oar in!
    So they would have missed much less actual teaching then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    One thing that won’t happen this year is a massive cock-up by the exam boards themselves. I’ve seen A* candidates get a D or E because the board forgot to add in the mark for one paper or transposed the digits (91% becomes 19% for example). In some cases this has cost people their university place as by the time it had been sorted it had gone to someone else.
    Sometimes a department will get all their students downgraded for no particular reason, and trying to get any exam board to admit that they have made a mistake is like trying to get blood from a stone.
    Obviously there will be students who will not get what they deserve this year, and the way Ofqual have gone about things is not helping. But let’s not pretend that the way things normally go is perfect either.

    BiB - Seriously? That's beyond terrible.
    That happened in my school in English Lit 'O' level many years ago. Nothing much changes.

    A lot of 'A' students who went on to get an A at A Level got Bs, Cs and Ds. I got an A in the mock exam and was awarded a U in the real one. The entire school year was affected.

    I was advised not to challenge it as it wasn't likely to be upgraded very much and a U didn't appear on the certificate. I didn't really care as I did science A levels anyway, so it remains a badge of honour more than anything.

    At A level it would of course been a much bigger problem.
    Finally I have an explanation for why I got an E at O-Level English Lit! I sat it in 1983.
    I am embarrassed to say I got a B in History at O Level; otherwise straight As.
    Which is why I can never criticise @ydoethur .
    I got a C in Economics but that never stopped me criticising Brown.
  • Nigelb said:

    6-1. This match isn't going to be a draw. :)

    Might be different with another drop.
    Now you've done it.
    That's it for England's chances.
    But if you've layed the draw, you're ok. Pakistan make 300+ they can easily go on to win.

    Netweather still saying no rain. BBC disagree. Can't both be right!
    BBC and Netweather both base their forecasts on the US GFS model - since their forecast data is made freely available to commercial forecasters.

    Why not use the Met Office forecast which uses the superior British forecast model?
    I thought the Beeb used the Met Office?

    Anyway my beef with all weather forecasters is not that they get it wrong from time to time. That's understandable; it's a difficult art. I want to know why they don't publish their results, at least not in a readily accessible form. Until they start doing so, they can be justly mocked as comparable to astrologers, producing waffly predictions that are never measured against the reality.
    Not any more, they use MeteoGroup, which uses GFS and ECM to make its forecasts.

    The Met Office are used by ITV.
    Noted with thanks, but if none of them publish results who knows which is best?
    All of the so-called 'Big Three' models (GFS, ECM and UKMO) are verified retrospectively. I don't have the relevant links to hand but there are there if you mooch around.

    ECMWF used to do better at long range.

    Of course, to get local forecasts you really need to run a local model. GFS is a 'global' model, whereas the UKMO run both global and local models. I'm not sure about ECM - there are a number of local European models (eg EURO4) but whether they run any I'm not 100% sure

    You can run your own local WRF model using GFS inputs if you are so inclined...
    Sure, but verified by whom? And why aren't the details readily available on their sites? That's a requirement that applies to just about everyone in a forecasting business. Why not weather forecasters?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    If you want to know whether it's going to rain, look at the radar.

    http://www.raintoday.co.uk

    That tells me if it is raining, but if it is the best we have for forecasting then we don't need the forecasters, do we?
    It's far more reliable as a predictor of rain than apps.

    You need to learn to Nowcast – track the system from the radar and work out when and where it's going. It's not that difficult.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,595
    "'Hierarchy of racism' fears threaten Starmer's hopes of Labour unity

    After the antisemitism rows of the Corbyn era, there are concerns that black voters are now being pushed away"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/aug/13/hierarchy-of-racism-fears-threaten-starmers-hopes-of-labour-unity
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    One thing that won’t happen this year is a massive cock-up by the exam boards themselves. I’ve seen A* candidates get a D or E because the board forgot to add in the mark for one paper or transposed the digits (91% becomes 19% for example). In some cases this has cost people their university place as by the time it had been sorted it had gone to someone else.
    Sometimes a department will get all their students downgraded for no particular reason, and trying to get any exam board to admit that they have made a mistake is like trying to get blood from a stone.
    Obviously there will be students who will not get what they deserve this year, and the way Ofqual have gone about things is not helping. But let’s not pretend that the way things normally go is perfect either.

    BiB - Seriously? That's beyond terrible.
    That happened in my school in English Lit 'O' level many years ago. Nothing much changes.

    A lot of 'A' students who went on to get an A at A Level got Bs, Cs and Ds. I got an A in the mock exam and was awarded a U in the real one. The entire school year was affected.

    I was advised not to challenge it as it wasn't likely to be upgraded very much and a U didn't appear on the certificate. I didn't really care as I did science A levels anyway, so it remains a badge of honour more than anything.

    At A level it would of course been a much bigger problem.
    Finally I have an explanation for why I got an E at O-Level English Lit! I sat it in 1983.
    I am embarrassed to say I got a B in History at O Level; otherwise straight As.
    Which is why I can never criticise @ydoethur .
    I got a C in Economics but that never stopped me criticising Brown.
    Your history is not as bad as Brown's economics, though.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    tlg86 said:

    One thing that won’t happen this year is a massive cock-up by the exam boards themselves. I’ve seen A* candidates get a D or E because the board forgot to add in the mark for one paper or transposed the digits (91% becomes 19% for example). In some cases this has cost people their university place as by the time it had been sorted it had gone to someone else.
    Sometimes a department will get all their students downgraded for no particular reason, and trying to get any exam board to admit that they have made a mistake is like trying to get blood from a stone.
    Obviously there will be students who will not get what they deserve this year, and the way Ofqual have gone about things is not helping. But let’s not pretend that the way things normally go is perfect either.

    BiB - Seriously? That's beyond terrible.
    That happened in my school in English Lit 'O' level many years ago. Nothing much changes.

    A lot of 'A' students who went on to get an A at A Level got Bs, Cs and Ds. I got an A in the mock exam and was awarded a U in the real one. The entire school year was affected.

    I was advised not to challenge it as it wasn't likely to be upgraded very much and a U didn't appear on the certificate. I didn't really care as I did science A levels anyway, so it remains a badge of honour more than anything.

    At A level it would of course been a much bigger problem.
    Finally I have an explanation for why I got an E at O-Level English Lit!
    Not pretty enough?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    TOPPING said:

    TWO ANECDOTES:

    1) Daughter of a friend predicted A*, A, A. Received B, B, C. Failed to get into first choice Uni.

    2) Friend last week lost her sense of smell, felt rotten, went to get tested, results were "inconclusive". Feels fine now.

    I have managed with these anecdotes to incorporate the vast swathe of PB topics. But wait, one more:

    3) Some, many, perhaps most Brexiters are TAPS.

    Your welcome.

    No, you're welcome.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    A striking statistic.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/511806-harris-carries-positive-favorability-into-vp-bid-poll
    ...Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) is starting her campaign as presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden’s running mate with a net-positive approval rating, according to a new ABC News/Ipsos poll released Thursday.

    Thirty-seven percent of registered voters say they view her favorably, while 32 percent said they have an unfavorable view of her. By comparison, Vice President Mike Pence is viewed favorably by 33 percent of voters and unfavorably by 47 percent of voters.

    Forty-seven percent of voters also rate Biden’s pick of the California senator as his running mate as excellent or good, including 83 percent of Democratic voters and 68 percent of Black voters. Twenty-nine percent overall rated Biden’s pick as poor or not so good.

    Harris’s favorability rating makes her the only person who will appear on a 2020 White House ballot for a major party who is viewed net-positively among registered voters...
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    edited August 2020
    TOPPING said:

    TWO ANECDOTES:

    1) Daughter of a friend predicted A*, A, A. Received B, B, C. Failed to get into first choice Uni.

    2) Friend last week lost her sense of smell, felt rotten, went to get tested, results were "inconclusive". Feels fine now.

    I have managed with these anecdotes to incorporate the vast swathe of PB topics. But wait, one more:

    3) Some, many, perhaps most Brexiters are TAPS.

    Your welcome.

    Taps eh?

    I voted remain, so you are not talking about me, but I have no idea what a tap is.

    Mind you, I did a course for aspiring middle managers once (auto correct wanted that to be “middle ammeters” and I was very tempted to leave it in) and in the personality test phase I came back as a plant. I was not impressed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,428

    Nigelb said:

    6-1. This match isn't going to be a draw. :)

    Might be different with another drop.
    Now you've done it.
    That's it for England's chances.
    But if you've layed the draw, you're ok. Pakistan make 300+ they can easily go on to win.

    Netweather still saying no rain. BBC disagree. Can't both be right!
    BBC and Netweather both base their forecasts on the US GFS model - since their forecast data is made freely available to commercial forecasters.

    Why not use the Met Office forecast which uses the superior British forecast model?
    I thought the Beeb used the Met Office?

    Anyway my beef with all weather forecasters is not that they get it wrong from time to time. That's understandable; it's a difficult art. I want to know why they don't publish their results, at least not in a readily accessible form. Until they start doing so, they can be justly mocked as comparable to astrologers, producing waffly predictions that are never measured against the reality.
    The BBC weren't willing to pay for Met Office quality.

    There's lots of information about the accuracy of Met Office forecasts, but it isn't necessarily pitched for the general audience. For some of the measures they are answerable to government departments which governs the form the measures take. For others they are subject to agreement with other national forecasters - so again there are constraints.

    There are some charlatans about who like to claim better accuracy than the Met Office, but when challenged they refuse to agree to a format for independent evaluation.

    The groups like Netweather and Meteogroup - who use the US forecasts - tend to do a decent job on converting those to forecasts for a specific place. But in the longer forecast times that doesn't compensate for the underlying forecast not being as good.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    One thing that won’t happen this year is a massive cock-up by the exam boards themselves. I’ve seen A* candidates get a D or E because the board forgot to add in the mark for one paper or transposed the digits (91% becomes 19% for example). In some cases this has cost people their university place as by the time it had been sorted it had gone to someone else.
    Sometimes a department will get all their students downgraded for no particular reason, and trying to get any exam board to admit that they have made a mistake is like trying to get blood from a stone.
    Obviously there will be students who will not get what they deserve this year, and the way Ofqual have gone about things is not helping. But let’s not pretend that the way things normally go is perfect either.

    BiB - Seriously? That's beyond terrible.
    That happened in my school in English Lit 'O' level many years ago. Nothing much changes.

    A lot of 'A' students who went on to get an A at A Level got Bs, Cs and Ds. I got an A in the mock exam and was awarded a U in the real one. The entire school year was affected.

    I was advised not to challenge it as it wasn't likely to be upgraded very much and a U didn't appear on the certificate. I didn't really care as I did science A levels anyway, so it remains a badge of honour more than anything.

    At A level it would of course been a much bigger problem.
    Finally I have an explanation for why I got an E at O-Level English Lit! I sat it in 1983.
    I am embarrassed to say I got a B in History at O Level; otherwise straight As.
    Which is why I can never criticise @ydoethur .
    I got a C in Economics but that never stopped me criticising Brown.
    Your history is not as bad as Brown's economics, though.
    That came out rather less complimentary than intended. Sorry.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    TOPPING said:

    TWO ANECDOTES:

    1) Daughter of a friend predicted A*, A, A. Received B, B, C. Failed to get into first choice Uni.

    2) Friend last week lost her sense of smell, felt rotten, went to get tested, results were "inconclusive". Feels fine now.

    I have managed with these anecdotes to incorporate the vast swathe of PB topics. But wait, one more:

    3) Some, many, perhaps most Brexiters are TAPS.

    Your welcome.

    Taps eh?

    I voted remain, so you are not talking about me, but I have no idea what a tap is.

    Mind you, I did a course for aspiring middle managers once (auto correct wanted that to be “middle ammeters” and I was very tempted to leave it in) and in the personality test phase I came back as a plant. I was not impressed.
    Plant. Quiet for long periods then chips in with a bit of brilliance. One thinks of Teddy Sheringham.
This discussion has been closed.