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  • A new poster has just joined, just as I called Sean out.

    I'm not saying they are Sean but is that not a bit suspicious?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    Thanks for posting.

    I tend to agree with you on Dawn and her history is not looking good on this matter. She would have more leverage if she hadn't been shown to be a bit of a fool before. Having said that I am sure she has experienced racism far more than I have.

    I think in this case it probably was an innocent mistake.

    But the statement still doesn't really explain why they stopped the car in the first place? Being from somewhere else in the country isn't reasonable grounds, otherwise I'd be stopped every time I drove to London.

    So I hope the Police will add more context and clarify what I suspect is an honest mistake.
    The car wouldn't physically match the description of the Yorkshire vehicle, so it would look like false plates.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Tens of people will die before they find a vaccine that works you mark my words.

    Welcome! A fresh voice, finally
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,247

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    I missed the memo that Hackney is now for local cars only!

    Surely most vehicles moving in any London borough are registered outside the borough all the time?
    The police entered the reg incorrectly and the result came back as "Yorkshire" - so they stopped the car to see if that was the case. Why did Butler only upload 1m of an 8m video?
    Butler doesnt have any powers over the population so I dont really mind what she does or her motives for doing so, although hope she never gets a senior position in a major party.

    If the police can find time to stop cars simply for being out of town, why can they not find time to investigate serious crimes such as thefts and assaults? I do care what the police do, and it is bizarre behaviour to prioritise stopping cars for being from Yorkshire. Perhaps that was the best they could come up with as a justification.
    Alternatively, they may have information on criminals coming from Yorkshire into London. Or stolen cars from Yorkshire being sold in London. And so on and so forth.

    Why is this not reported on more then? Hardly seems a good use of Police time and don't the Police most of the time say theft is basically pointless to investigate nowadays?
    Make your bloody mind up. You just demanded that the police should "investigate serious crimes like thefts", then, when I pointed out that that may be the exact reason they stopped this car - thefts - you said "theft is basically pointless to investigate".

    You're an idiot. With all due respect.
    No you misunderstood me or I wasn't clear. And you can't respectfully call somebody an idiot so quit with that shite and we'll get on fine.

    I think investigating thefts is a good use of Police time, I said investigating where a car comes from is a waste of Police time. They had no evidence it was stolen.

    The Police say thefts aren't investigated nowadays, they should investigate them but they don't. That was stating reality.

    I'm sorry if it wasn't clear what I meant.
    Embarrassing. Stop.
    Oh fuck off then Sean
    How many aliases has this guy got ?
    It's a PB version of "I went shopping and I bought".

    It stops when the alphabet is covered.
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
  • I guess we will see if LadyG stops posting, whether LaddyDearic is their next persona.

    I hope I'm wrong and it's always good to see a new poster. But count me cynical.
  • https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1292526458594787329

    I'm not sure this is particularly helpful. I just feel like we're going to lose anyone that might listen and just undermine Labour again
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    "An officer incorrectly entered" suggests nothing to do with ANPR.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,247

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    Thanks for posting.

    I tend to agree with you on Dawn and her history is not looking good on this matter. She would have more leverage if she hadn't been shown to be a bit of a fool before. Having said that I am sure she has experienced racism far more than I have.

    I think in this case it probably was an innocent mistake.

    But the statement still doesn't really explain why they stopped the car in the first place? Being from somewhere else in the country isn't reasonable grounds, otherwise I'd be stopped every time I drove to London.

    So I hope the Police will add more context and clarify what I suspect is an honest mistake.
    That's fair comment.
  • ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Tens of people will die before they find a vaccine that works you mark my words.

    Is there a word missing between ‘tens’ and ‘of?’

    If not, this strikes me as a very optimistic analysis.
  • ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I suspect they entered the numberplate wrong, it didn't match what the computer said and they stopped it for that reason.

    Which is why it's strange they didn't just say that.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    Have you been to Hackney? It's not all jellied eels and burqas. There are plenty of rich people who live there, work there and own businesses there. And of course it is part of London: the richest city in the country by far, so many other Londoners drive through it.

    A flashy car is hardly rare in Hackney.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
    I don’t know either, but ‘entered incorrectly’ suggests manual entry or it would be ‘read incorrectly.’
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    LadyG said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    Have you been to Hackney? It's not all jellied eels and burqas. There are plenty of rich people who live there, work there and own businesses there. And of course it is part of London: the richest city in the country by far, so many other Londoners drive through it.

    A flashy car is hardly rare in Hackney.
    No, I have never been to Hackney. Is all of it nice? Is some of it run down? Where exactly was this car stopped?
  • https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/09/downing-street-to-set-rape-prosecution-targets-police-and-cps

    Why would you want targets for this, I feel like this can only end in tears
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2020

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I suspect they entered the numberplate wrong, it didn't match what the computer said and they stopped it for that reason.

    Which is why it's strange they didn't just say that.
    From the 1m of her 8m video Ms Butler has seen fit to share, it appears they did.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    ydoethur said:

    LadyG said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    Have you been to Hackney? It's not all jellied eels and burqas. There are plenty of rich people who live there, work there and own businesses there. And of course it is part of London: the richest city in the country by far, so many other Londoners drive through it.

    A flashy car is hardly rare in Hackney.
    No, I have never been to Hackney. Is all of it nice? Is some of it run down? Where exactly was this car stopped?
    Quite a lot of it is now "nice". Houses in the most expensive Hackney locale, Albion Sq, cost £2.5m


    https://www.mouseprice.com/area-guide/most-expensive-streets/e8


    There are very few places in central or inner London where a flashy car is so out of place it would, by itself, be a reason to stop a vehicle. Maybe the odd cul de sac on a very rundown estate. But then the car would be parked, I presume.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
    I don’t know either, but ‘entered incorrectly’ suggests manual entry or it would be ‘read incorrectly.’
    ANPR is a set of fixed cameras at various locations that read plates in real time. Unless its recent not something thats used to read number plates direct from police cars.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    To distract from the recent behaviour of the Chief Whip over rape allegations made to him?

    Yes it would be beyond cynical to do such a thing. But...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/09/downing-street-to-set-rape-prosecution-targets-police-and-cps

    Why would you want targets for this, I feel like this can only end in tears

    Because appearing to be tough on crime wins votes. This is the Johnson Government we are talking about. Pay attention!
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
    I don’t know either, but ‘entered incorrectly’ suggests manual entry or it would be ‘read incorrectly.’
    ANPR is a set of fixed cameras at various locations that read plates in real time. Unless its recent not something thats used to read number plates direct from police cars.
    I only Googled it but it can be used in vehicles it seems.

    https://www.dorset.police.uk/news-information/about-dorset-police/departments-sections/specialist-operations/anpr/

    "In addition to being mounted within police vehicles..."

    It is Dorset Police albeit.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/09/downing-street-to-set-rape-prosecution-targets-police-and-cps

    Why would you want targets for this, I feel like this can only end in tears

    On this we agree. The logical endpoint of this unhappy policy, if it is enacted, is an annual target for successful CONVICTIONS.
  • His linking everything to Blair is a bit odd.

    She's good because she's a good politician, it's a bit offensive to say she's good because she once worked for Blair.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
    I don’t know either, but ‘entered incorrectly’ suggests manual entry or it would be ‘read incorrectly.’
    Yes I do not think it would be anpr, more likely to be incorrect manual entry on PNC ,or the wrong reg passed to the control room operator.
    Which would ask the question why were they checking the vehicle ?


  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/09/downing-street-to-set-rape-prosecution-targets-police-and-cps

    Why would you want targets for this, I feel like this can only end in tears

    On this we agree. The logical endpoint of this unhappy policy, if it is enacted, is an annual target for successful CONVICTIONS.


    Edit: I just read the entire piece and it seems I am behind the times. The govt ALREADY has an "ambition" for the number of successful rape convictions per year, and has hit a 68% conviction rate! - hooray for the judicial system of Eurasia and Eastasia! - however this by itself has lowered the number of cases coming to court because the CPS doesn't want to risk aquittals: so weaker cases get dumped.

    What a politically correct mess.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited August 2020
    Yorkcity said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
    I don’t know either, but ‘entered incorrectly’ suggests manual entry or it would be ‘read incorrectly.’
    Yes I do not think it would be anpr, more likely to be incorrect manual entry on PNC ,or the wrong reg passed to the control room operator.
    Which would ask the question why were they checking the vehicle ?


    More likely stopped for having tinted rear windows, clearly an obvious sign of a drug dealer.
  • https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1292517102117584896

    I'm not sure he needs nor wants superfans. A narrow clique is where Corbyn went wrong
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Yorkcity said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
    I don’t know either, but ‘entered incorrectly’ suggests manual entry or it would be ‘read incorrectly.’
    Yes I do not think it would be anpr, more likely to be incorrect manual entry on PNC ,or the wrong reg passed to the control room operator.
    Which would ask the question why were they checking the vehicle ?
    And that is something I hadn’t considered at all in my earlier comments.

    Maybe they had intel on a make/model and it was of that type? Would that be possible? Might explain why they’re coy about saying too much as well.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited August 2020

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Also according to the plot in the Mail article, 70% of Americans were getting infected every day at the peak. :D
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    ydoethur said:

    Yorkcity said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
    I don’t know either, but ‘entered incorrectly’ suggests manual entry or it would be ‘read incorrectly.’
    Yes I do not think it would be anpr, more likely to be incorrect manual entry on PNC ,or the wrong reg passed to the control room operator.
    Which would ask the question why were they checking the vehicle ?
    And that is something I hadn’t considered at all in my earlier comments.

    Maybe they had intel on a make/model and it was of that type? Would that be possible? Might explain why they’re coy about saying too much as well.
    Yes that could be possible , intel on make model colour and partial reg.
  • SheenaTSheenaT Posts: 1
    Thanks to Cummings' masterstroke of increasing R&D spending, this pandemic will be over by Christmas. It's a done deal.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Thanks. Quite frankly I don't see how having a less stringent lockdown would have led to a better outcome in the UK.
  • Another new account, something odd is going on here for sure
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    nichomar said:

    Yorkcity said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I'm sorry, as I say I'm arguing from an ignorant POV.

    Do they not all have ANPR, so is that why they would they need to enter it manually?
    I don’t know either, but ‘entered incorrectly’ suggests manual entry or it would be ‘read incorrectly.’
    Yes I do not think it would be anpr, more likely to be incorrect manual entry on PNC ,or the wrong reg passed to the control room operator.
    Which would ask the question why were they checking the vehicle ?


    More likely stopped for having tinted rear windows, clearly an obvious sign of a drug dealer.
    No, they are for people with embarrassingly ugly children.
  • RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Its possible that Sweden was more lightly seeded than the UK.

    I assume they didn't use an equivalent of 'protect the NHS' either.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    edited August 2020
    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    Yes. From the original paper and the excel spreadsheet. The higher figure is completely unmitigated, and lower figures are from different methods. With some social distancing but no extra measures to protect the elderly (which is far less than the Swedish measures), you get the 40,000 figure.
    With enhanced social distancing of the elderly (reduction in social contact by 60%), which is pretty much what Sweden have tried to do, the final death toll was projected at 16,000 for Sweden when the disease had fully run its course and all restrictions could then be lifted.

    Which they’re still nowhere near doing. They still have the same restrictions, we’ve lifted ours until we’re very similar to them, they’ve incurred a worse economic hit than any of their neighbours together with a death toll far far worse than any of them, and there’s little sign of any economic recovery in sight for them.

    Funny how that all tends not to be mentioned.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Thanks. Quite frankly I don't see how having a less stringent lockdown would have led to a better outcome in the UK.
    Lots of unknowns with this plague.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    Belarus is about to enter a seven day period where it will either explode or President Big Hat will have just sailed on through.

    Russia has been taking few chances. It has its advance parties in the country and a number of its most notable offensive unis, including the 4th Guards Tank Division, have been shifted west closer to the border. As a note, you don't deploy tank divisions to increase border security in case of an overspill of civil disruption in a neighboring country.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited August 2020

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    So now they have committed a sin by entering the numberplate into the computer? Wow. I thought it was just stopping black people they weren't supposed to do - I didn't realise even following a lead privately was out of bounds.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    SeanT Eadric is an anagram of rancid tease.
    And also ascertained.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    Yes. From the original paper and the excel spreadsheet. The higher figure is completely unmitigated, and lower figures are from different methods. With some social distancing but no extra measures to protect the elderly (which is far less than the Swedish measures), you get the 40,000 figure.
    With enhanced social distancing of the elderly (reduction in social contact by 60%), which is pretty much what Sweden have tried to do, the final death toll was projected at 16,000 for Sweden when the disease had fully run its course and all restrictions could then be lifted.

    Which they’re still nowhere near doing. They still have the same restrictions, we’ve lifted ours until we’re very similar to them, they’ve incurred a worse economic hit than any of their neighbours together with a death toll far far worse than any of them, and there’s little sign of any economic recovery in sight for them.

    Funny how that all tends not to be mentioned.
    Well, the Swedes themselves do say this is a marathon not a sprint. And so far we're not even halfway through the marathon. We just have to wait and see.
  • Perhaps someone could explain to those who don't know that Sinn Fein has been part of the government of Northern Ireland for twenty years.

    That Stormont place which is dependent upon handouts from British taxpayers.

    A few seconds on google will show, as an example, David Cameron being all pally with Martin McGuinness, a member of the IRA army council.

    Unpleasant perhaps but such things often need to be done to bring conflicts to an end and we're all supposed to be peace and forgiveness now.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited August 2020

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Its possible that Sweden was more lightly seeded than the UK.

    I assume they didn't use an equivalent of 'protect the NHS' either.
    Is it possible Sweden is not comparable to U.K. in many ways which alter infection rates, spreading, severity and outcomes?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    So now they have committed a sin by entering the numberplate into the computer? Wow. I thought it was just stopping black people they weren't supposed to do - I didn't realise even following a lead privately was out of bounds.
    Quite.

    And remember how The Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe, was eventually arrested: by exactly this basic coppering. That is to say: a policeman noticed a vehicle with false number plates.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/police-caught-yorkshire-ripper-peter-sutcliffe-sheffield-37-years-ago-week-114604
  • Sean AKA @LadyG has registered two new accounts today.

    @SheenaT and @LaddyDearic are obviously him. Just as I called him out they joined.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Enthusiastic about democracy, them Belorussians.

    https://twitter.com/torkil_ts/status/1292511904838160384?s=20
  • https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1292517102117584896

    I'm not sure he needs nor wants superfans. A narrow clique is where Corbyn went wrong

    It’s not a very good picture of Sir Kier.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1292517102117584896

    I'm not sure he needs nor wants superfans. A narrow clique is where Corbyn went wrong

    It’s not a very good picture of Sir Kier.
    Has Keir had cosmetic surgery to make himself look like a dork?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    LadyG said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    So now they have committed a sin by entering the numberplate into the computer? Wow. I thought it was just stopping black people they weren't supposed to do - I didn't realise even following a lead privately was out of bounds.
    Quite.

    And remember how The Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe, was eventually arrested: by exactly this basic coppering. That is to say: a policeman noticed a vehicle with false number plates.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/police-caught-yorkshire-ripper-peter-sutcliffe-sheffield-37-years-ago-week-114604
    Not exactly the best case study for UK police investigations though was it?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Sean AKA @LadyG has registered two new accounts today.

    @SheenaT and @LaddyDearic are obviously him. Just as I called him out they joined.

    They could be false flag operations, though.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Angus Robertson and Marco Biagi seem to be locked in a war of who can be meanest to the Tories

    https://twitter.com/MarcoGBiagi/status/1292511142527610880?s=19
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1292517102117584896

    I'm not sure he needs nor wants superfans. A narrow clique is where Corbyn went wrong

    It’s not a very good picture of Sir Kier.
    Has Keir had cosmetic surgery to make himself look like a dork?
    That's the journalist Robert Colvile. A nice guy who, very sadly, lost his young wife to a bizarre and awful disease a few months ago.

    It's a poignant story. They had little kids. There but for the grace of God...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767601/ROBERT-COLVILE-lost-wife-little-known-disease-five-months-ago.html
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    nichomar said:

    LadyG said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    So now they have committed a sin by entering the numberplate into the computer? Wow. I thought it was just stopping black people they weren't supposed to do - I didn't realise even following a lead privately was out of bounds.
    Quite.

    And remember how The Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe, was eventually arrested: by exactly this basic coppering. That is to say: a policeman noticed a vehicle with false number plates.


    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/police-caught-yorkshire-ripper-peter-sutcliffe-sheffield-37-years-ago-week-114604
    Not exactly the best case study for UK police investigations though was it?
    No, it was terrible overall. But my precise point is good.

    False number plates spotted: evil killer arrested.
  • philiph said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Its possible that Sweden was more lightly seeded than the UK.

    I assume they didn't use an equivalent of 'protect the NHS' either.
    Is it possible Sweden is not comparable to U.K. in many ways which alter infection rates, spreading, severity and outcomes?
    Not just possible but very likely.

    What those differences are is something worth knowing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Sean AKA @LadyG has registered two new accounts today.

    @SheenaT and @LaddyDearic are obviously him. Just as I called him out they joined.

    Nah, can't be done, besides it breaches all sorts of PB rules. Anyway LaddyDearic is nothing like SeanT. and SheenaT is nothing like Eadric (or LadyG).

    So welcome, both!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Sean AKA @LadyG has registered two new accounts today.

    @SheenaT and @LaddyDearic are obviously him. Just as I called him out they joined.

    Or is it another poster masquerading as SeanT just to make us all think he is twatting about again?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    moonshine said:

    LadyG said:

    At what point do we find out if a vaccine is going to work?

    There's a quote in the Times today (IIRC) from an unnamed government expert who reckons there is a "one in three" chance we will ever get a truly effective vaccine.

    Don't pin your hopes on it.
    I see no reason why that government expert would be uninformed. But it doesn’t really matter does it. It just needs to be “good enough”. Good enough to shift the R down a gear, good enough to take another 50% out of the CFR, good enough that everyone swallows hard and gets on with their lives again.

    Everything I’ve heard from those in a position to know is that it will be just that. No silver bullet but good enough.
    It also depends on the definition of “truly effective”.

    Typical probability of technical success for a phase 3 small molecule is around 70%. Vaccines are slightly lower (IIRC c 65%). And that’s for a product with sufficient efficacy to be approved in normal times. Given the critical unmet need, if a candidate has a clean SAE profile it will be approved even if only marginal efficacy
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited August 2020
    LadyG said:

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1292517102117584896

    I'm not sure he needs nor wants superfans. A narrow clique is where Corbyn went wrong

    It’s not a very good picture of Sir Kier.
    Has Keir had cosmetic surgery to make himself look like a dork?
    That's the journalist Robert Colvile. A nice guy who, very sadly, lost his young wife to a bizarre and awful disease a few months ago.

    It's a poignant story. They had little kids. There but for the grace of God...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767601/ROBERT-COLVILE-lost-wife-little-known-disease-five-months-ago.html
    My apologies, I didn't know.

    The article on Starmer isn't particularly inspiring though.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    philiph said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Its possible that Sweden was more lightly seeded than the UK.

    I assume they didn't use an equivalent of 'protect the NHS' either.
    Is it possible Sweden is not comparable to U.K. in many ways which alter infection rates, spreading, severity and outcomes?
    Not just possible but very likely.

    What those differences are is something worth knowing.
    For a start, Sweden has a remarkably high level of people living alone.

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190821-why-so-many-young-swedes-live-alone


    "More than half of Swedish households are single-person, the highest proportion in the EU"

    That, by itself, may explain much.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1292517102117584896

    I'm not sure he needs nor wants superfans. A narrow clique is where Corbyn went wrong

    It’s not a very good picture of Sir Kier.
    Has Keir had cosmetic surgery to make himself look like a dork?
    That's the journalist Robert Colvile. A nice guy who, very sadly, lost his young wife to a bizarre and awful disease a few months ago.

    It's a poignant story. They had little kids. There but for the grace of God...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767601/ROBERT-COLVILE-lost-wife-little-known-disease-five-months-ago.html
    My apologies, I didn't know.

    The article isn't particularly inspiring though.
    No need to apologise. Just a bit of context.

    I agree the article is less than scintillating. But then, he's writing about Keir Starmer. The least scintillating man in British politics. A challenge for any writer, comedian or impressionist.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    “I can’t see what’s in the back of your car” could equal illegally tinted windows
  • Charles said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    “I can’t see what’s in the back of your car” could equal illegally tinted windows
    That might well be it then and it seems logical to me.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Charles said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    “I can’t see what’s in the back of your car” could equal illegally tinted windows
    The answer to all these disputes is, surely, for police to be routinely fitted with their own GoPro cams which record all interactions with the public.

    Then they could show the entire context. Good for public trust, good for the police.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    edited August 2020
    It's a conundrum for dictators. You've decided to hold regular elections, thus implicitly accepting that democracy is a good thing, but obviously the outcome should not be in question. Therefore, how much effort do you put into your faked results?

    Do you have people count ballots, but just release made up figures? Do you just burn the ballots and make up some figures to save on bureaucracy?

    And how to decide how high a vote share to give yourself? The most clueless are those who give themselves a share in the 90s, but anything in the 70s could suggest as many as a quarter of the people do not back and you and that's not good, so probably best to shoot for the 80s.

    There's something to be said for dictatorial regimes which don't even pretend that democracy is a good thing. Bit more honest.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    edited August 2020
    LadyG said:

    philiph said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Its possible that Sweden was more lightly seeded than the UK.

    I assume they didn't use an equivalent of 'protect the NHS' either.
    Is it possible Sweden is not comparable to U.K. in many ways which alter infection rates, spreading, severity and outcomes?
    Not just possible but very likely.

    What those differences are is something worth knowing.
    For a start, Sweden has a remarkably high level of people living alone.

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190821-why-so-many-young-swedes-live-alone


    "More than half of Swedish households are single-person, the highest proportion in the EU"

    That, by itself, may explain much.
    Very true.
    Intra-household transmission would be far less.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the natural social distance in Sweden would have the effect of lowering the R number by a third compared to here in the UK.
    So if R0 here was 3, it’d be just 2 there.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Her "black male friend" looks quite pale....

    Wonder when she's going to release the full video.....
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    Given that I spent a large part of my younger days seeing stop and search close up here are some, perhaps unpalatable, facts:

    1. It tends to happen a lot more in certain areas for a reason, ie that's where the problems are. If that is an area with disproportionately more black people., what do you think is going to occur?
    2. Profiling does happen, whether its by age gender or race or a combo, for example two old black people are less likely to get stopped than two younger black people, or possibly two young white people for that matter
    3. Communities and some within get reputations, and the idea that officers don't consider that is bollocks, of course they will. We all profile and form views , like for example by political allegiance or class. Anyone who says they never do it is full of crap. You can only take so much subliminal bias out, especially given these officers see and know a lot more than joe public who doesn't see it up close.
    4. Stop and search is a blanket measure, a general purpose tool, in the majority of cases its executed to precise information. In fact if you were in receipt of specific actionable intelligence you'd probably not execute using stop and search by a couple of plod. Stop and search is not completely willy nilly, but it isn't the output of precise info either.
    5. An out of area vehicle can attract attention and actually should in many cases.

    Are you going to get racist police officers? Yes. Is stop and search inherently racist? Probably not.

    As for intelligence-led policing, this is not as precise as you'd imagine either in most cases. Absolute actionable info (e.g. this will happen at this precise time, such and such will be here, such and such will be armed) when it comes to criminal gangs is a minority proportion of what is called intelligence led police operations. Most of it is based upon more general info and knowledge, that a killing of a person may lead to another killing of known individuals. That a certain area has been chosen for a dust up and so on.

    As a simple example. We had our childhood family house raided twice back in the day. Both complete errors, nothing found and they pretty much knew it after about 60 seconds thus ensuring the place didn't get totally turned over. Did we live in an area with a reputation? Absolutely. Did something suggest the house might need turning over for weapons? Yes. Was it wrong? Yes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1292517102117584896

    I'm not sure he needs nor wants superfans. A narrow clique is where Corbyn went wrong

    He's the equivalent of beige? I love beige. It's no nonsense, gets the job done, and is so common as to be ubiquitous.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    Thanks for posting.

    I tend to agree with you on Dawn and her history is not looking good on this matter. She would have more leverage if she hadn't been shown to be a bit of a fool before. Having said that I am sure she has experienced racism far more than I have.

    I think in this case it probably was an innocent mistake.

    But the statement still doesn't really explain why they stopped the car in the first place? Being from somewhere else in the country isn't reasonable grounds, otherwise I'd be stopped every time I drove to London.

    So I hope the Police will add more context and clarify what I suspect is an honest mistake.
    Someone else posted this up thread.

    The computer system would also bring up make, model and colour for the car.

    The probability is that this was different to the car Butler was in.

    That is good reason to investigate
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,213
    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    “I can’t see what’s in the back of your car” could equal illegally tinted windows
    The answer to all these disputes is, surely, for police to be routinely fitted with their own GoPro cams which record all interactions with the public.

    Then they could show the entire context. Good for public trust, good for the police.
    Agreed.

  • LadyG said:

    philiph said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Its possible that Sweden was more lightly seeded than the UK.

    I assume they didn't use an equivalent of 'protect the NHS' either.
    Is it possible Sweden is not comparable to U.K. in many ways which alter infection rates, spreading, severity and outcomes?
    Not just possible but very likely.

    What those differences are is something worth knowing.
    For a start, Sweden has a remarkably high level of people living alone.

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190821-why-so-many-young-swedes-live-alone


    "More than half of Swedish households are single-person, the highest proportion in the EU"

    That, by itself, may explain much.
    Swedes have said they are delighted that the 2m social distancing might be coming to an end.

    'At last the horror is over and we can go back to normal, staying at least 10m away from each other'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    This Claire Fox ad is clearly targeted at Remain voting Tories in London and the South, suggesting Starmer is targeting them ahead of Leave voters in the Red Wall Labour lost last year
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    “I can’t see what’s in the back of your car” could equal illegally tinted windows
    The answer to all these disputes is, surely, for police to be routinely fitted with their own GoPro cams which record all interactions with the public.

    Then they could show the entire context. Good for public trust, good for the police.
    A no brainer really. I don't actually know what the policy is on such cameras, as I thought some officers already had them.
  • HYUFD said:

    This Claire Fox ad is clearly targeted at Remain voting Tories in London and the South, suggesting Starmer is targeting them ahead of Leave voters in the Red Wall Labour lost last year

    Yes, he's going for those seats first, in effort to get to 40% in the polls.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,213
    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    Yes. From the original paper and the excel spreadsheet. The higher figure is completely unmitigated, and lower figures are from different methods. With some social distancing but no extra measures to protect the elderly (which is far less than the Swedish measures), you get the 40,000 figure.
    With enhanced social distancing of the elderly (reduction in social contact by 60%), which is pretty much what Sweden have tried to do, the final death toll was projected at 16,000 for Sweden when the disease had fully run its course and all restrictions could then be lifted.

    Which they’re still nowhere near doing. They still have the same restrictions, we’ve lifted ours until we’re very similar to them, they’ve incurred a worse economic hit than any of their neighbours together with a death toll far far worse than any of them, and there’s little sign of any economic recovery in sight for them.

    Funny how that all tends not to be mentioned.
    Well, the Swedes themselves do say this is a marathon not a sprint. And so far we're not even halfway through the marathon. We just have to wait and see.
    If there's no early vaccine, the Swedes will be vindicated.

    If there is, they will have endured a more torrid time (in both death toll and economic impact) than Denmark, Norway and Finland for no benefit.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1292517102117584896

    I'm not sure he needs nor wants superfans. A narrow clique is where Corbyn went wrong

    He's the equivalent of beige? I love beige. It's no nonsense, gets the job done, and is so common as to be ubiquitous.
    It's a sign of being over 50 that you start buying beige clothes, usually fooled by the deviousness of manufacturers who describe the colour as sand or taupe or butterscotch.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    This Claire Fox ad is clearly targeted at Remain voting Tories in London and the South, suggesting Starmer is targeting them ahead of Leave voters in the Red Wall Labour lost last year

    The blue collar leave voters won't be coming back to Labour while Johnson is PM, even if the country is on its knees economically. They love Johnson!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    I suspect they entered the numberplate wrong, it didn't match what the computer said and they stopped it for that reason.

    Which is why it's strange they didn't just say that.
    That’s exactly what they say in paragraph 2 & 3.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    LadyG said:

    ydoethur said:

    LadyG said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    https://twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1292419998854651904?s=20

    Why would Dawn Butler only release a short excerpt of "the whole incident"? Reports are it was 8 minutes.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1292496308910137346?s=20

    Some on Twitter claim the driver (Butler was the passenger) was not black (do the Met racially profile passengers?) and the car was registered outside the area (some people register cars in lower crime post codes to reduce premiums).

    I hope the Met release any footage they have.

    Perhaps for the same reason that in the Bianca Williams case the footage was edited (except for the Times) to cut out the 20-25s of them failing to do as instructed by the police whilst they were pissing about with the camera (plus the failing to stop before that)?
    Or perhaps because the full footage would reveal that the "racial profiling" claim is pish, and that it shows the police explaining that the stop is due to misquoting the numberplate.
    People dont normally get stopped for driving somewhere other than their home town! What is this nonsense?
    This is the Met Statement. I need to see the full footage before I can say more. However Dawn Butler's history leads me to be skeptical when she claims things.

    -------------
    At approximately midday on Sunday, 9 August, police stopped a vehicle in Hackney.

    Prior to stopping the vehicle, an officer incorrectly entered the registration into a police computer which identified the car as registered to an address in Yorkshire.

    Upon stopping the vehicle and speaking with the driver, it quickly became apparent that the registration had been entered incorrectly and was registered to the driver in London.

    Once the mistake was realised the officer sought to explain this to the occupants; they were then allowed on their way.

    No searches were carried out on any individuals.

    One of the occupants has since been contacted by a senior officer and they have discussed the stop, subsequent interaction as well as feedback regarding the stop.

    We would welcome the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the occupants if they wish to do so.
    The statement is missing the crucial piece of information - Why did they enter the registration into a police computer in the first place? This is no way shows that they were making a sensible stop rather than a racially profiled one.

    Surely the police dont drive around town randomly entering number plates into a computer and stopping some? If they do no wonder they have no time to do sensible things like investigate assaults and theft.
    I thought ANPR was automatic to be honest - but I'm not an expert on these things.
    Although @noneoftheabove has a good point - ANPR wouldn’t have entered it wrongly. It sounds as though it was entered manually.

    But - if the driver was white, would racial profiling be involved?

    Or did they just think, nice car in dodgy area, is suspicious, let’s check it out?
    Have you been to Hackney? It's not all jellied eels and burqas. There are plenty of rich people who live there, work there and own businesses there. And of course it is part of London: the richest city in the country by far, so many other Londoners drive through it.

    A flashy car is hardly rare in Hackney.
    No, I have never been to Hackney. Is all of it nice? Is some of it run down? Where exactly was this car stopped?
    Quite a lot of it is now "nice". Houses in the most expensive Hackney locale, Albion Sq, cost £2.5m


    https://www.mouseprice.com/area-guide/most-expensive-streets/e8


    There are very few places in central or inner London where a flashy car is so out of place it would, by itself, be a reason to stop a vehicle. Maybe the odd cul de sac on a very rundown estate. But then the car would be parked, I presume.
    So 1.5x the price of the average house in newport beach
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    edited August 2020

    HYUFD said:

    This Claire Fox ad is clearly targeted at Remain voting Tories in London and the South, suggesting Starmer is targeting them ahead of Leave voters in the Red Wall Labour lost last year

    The blue collar leave voters won't be coming back to Labour while Johnson is PM, even if the country is on its knees economically. They love Johnson!
    Indeed they voted for Corbyn in 2017 despite his IRA links but switched to Boris in 2019 to get Brexit done, this ad does not target them however, it targets Remain voters in London and the South who voted Tory in 2017 and 2019 mainly to keep Corbyn out, not out of love for Brexit.

    Could be clever by Starmer
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    philiph said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Its possible that Sweden was more lightly seeded than the UK.

    I assume they didn't use an equivalent of 'protect the NHS' either.
    Is it possible Sweden is not comparable to U.K. in many ways which alter infection rates, spreading, severity and outcomes?
    Not just possible but very likely.

    What those differences are is something worth knowing.
    For a start, Sweden has a remarkably high level of people living alone.

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190821-why-so-many-young-swedes-live-alone


    "More than half of Swedish households are single-person, the highest proportion in the EU"

    That, by itself, may explain much.
    Very true.
    Intra-household transmission would be far less.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the natural social distance in Sweden would have the effect of lowering the R number by a third compared to here in the UK.
    So if R0 here was 3, it’d be just 2 there.
    I went to Sweden a couple of years ago. Walking into a pub was like walking into a respectful Quaker meeting where a valued congregant recently passed away. They just aren't very voluble, or touchy feely, or physically interactive (until they get blind drunk. Then they pillage.)

    Add that to the single households, and you probably have all you need for an explanation.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    HYUFD said:

    This Claire Fox ad is clearly targeted at Remain voting Tories in London and the South, suggesting Starmer is targeting them ahead of Leave voters in the Red Wall Labour lost last year

    The blue collar leave voters won't be coming back to Labour while Johnson is PM, even if the country is on its knees economically. They love Johnson!
    That is a great exaggeration. Some of those voters do like him - but only in the sense that quite a few Eastenders liked the Kray twins.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Why the “back” in both this & Biden’s version

    Build Back Better (Biden) I suppose has alliteration but Rebuild Back Better? Is the 3 word thing that important?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    edited August 2020
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    philiph said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    I think the prediction was based on moderate measures which equate to what the Swedes did.

    See the graph here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/schools-paper/
    Its possible that Sweden was more lightly seeded than the UK.

    I assume they didn't use an equivalent of 'protect the NHS' either.
    Is it possible Sweden is not comparable to U.K. in many ways which alter infection rates, spreading, severity and outcomes?
    Not just possible but very likely.

    What those differences are is something worth knowing.
    For a start, Sweden has a remarkably high level of people living alone.

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190821-why-so-many-young-swedes-live-alone


    "More than half of Swedish households are single-person, the highest proportion in the EU"

    That, by itself, may explain much.
    Very true.
    Intra-household transmission would be far less.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the natural social distance in Sweden would have the effect of lowering the R number by a third compared to here in the UK.
    So if R0 here was 3, it’d be just 2 there.
    I went to Sweden a couple of years ago. Walking into a pub was like walking into a respectful Quaker meeting where a valued congregant recently passed away. They just aren't very voluble, or touchy feely, or physically interactive (until they get blind drunk. Then they pillage.)
    Sounds like I should move to Sweden, frankly.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    RobD said:

    Prof Franks pointed out that, according to the Imperial College model that sparked Britain’s sudden lockdown, Sweden should have seen between 42,000 and 85,000 deaths.

    So far, this country of 10.1 million people has seen 5,763 fatalities,

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8607731/Why-Sweden-pilloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html

    Britain had a sudden lockdown and 50,000 still died. As for the Swedish projection, was that assuming the status quo?

    And the fatality rate must be an order of magnitude lower there if they are reaching herd immunity and we are at less than 10%.
    Yes. From the original paper and the excel spreadsheet. The higher figure is completely unmitigated, and lower figures are from different methods. With some social distancing but no extra measures to protect the elderly (which is far less than the Swedish measures), you get the 40,000 figure.
    With enhanced social distancing of the elderly (reduction in social contact by 60%), which is pretty much what Sweden have tried to do, the final death toll was projected at 16,000 for Sweden when the disease had fully run its course and all restrictions could then be lifted.

    Which they’re still nowhere near doing. They still have the same restrictions, we’ve lifted ours until we’re very similar to them, they’ve incurred a worse economic hit than any of their neighbours together with a death toll far far worse than any of them, and there’s little sign of any economic recovery in sight for them.

    Funny how that all tends not to be mentioned.
    Well, the Swedes themselves do say this is a marathon not a sprint. And so far we're not even halfway through the marathon. We just have to wait and see.
    If there's no early vaccine, the Swedes will be vindicated.

    If there is, they will have endured a more torrid time (in both death toll and economic impact) than Denmark, Norway and Finland for no benefit.
    No, you can't say that. What if there is a horrific second wave? Or the virus mutates into something worse? Or the pandemic itself kicks off horrible second order chaos - wars, revolutions, and so on?

    This whole thing is so huge, grave and unprecedented - complex beyond imagining - it is a fool's errand to make definite predictions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    This Claire Fox ad is clearly targeted at Remain voting Tories in London and the South, suggesting Starmer is targeting them ahead of Leave voters in the Red Wall Labour lost last year

    The blue collar leave voters won't be coming back to Labour while Johnson is PM, even if the country is on its knees economically. They love Johnson!
    That is a great exaggeration. Some of those voters do like him - but only in the sense that quite a few Eastenders liked the Kray twins.
    Is this some attempt at creating a new meme?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Yokes said:



    As for intelligence-led policing, this is not as precise as you'd imagine either in most cases. Absolute actionable info (e.g. this will happen at this precise time, such and such will be here, such and such will be armed) when it comes to criminal gangs is a minority proportion of what is called intelligence led police operations. Most of it is based upon more general info and knowledge, that a killing of a person may lead to another killing of known individuals. That a certain area has been chosen for a dust up and so on.

    As a simple example. We had our childhood family house raided twice back in the day. Both complete errors, nothing found and they pretty much knew it after about 60 seconds thus ensuring the place didn't get totally turned over. Did we live in an area with a reputation? Absolutely. Did something suggest the house might need turning over for weapons? Yes. Was it wrong? Yes.

    I think you're treating a serious problem too casually. If your exp0erience of the police is that they stop and search you on average EVERY WEEK, as happens to two people who I know, it has a counter-productively alienating effect. Quite possibly it will sometimes turn up a offence, just as it would if, say, every business was inspected every week to see if the correct sales figures were being reported to HMRC. It is still not worth it.

    As for stopping someone "because an officer incorrectly identified it as being registered in Yorkshire", ffs - people in Yorkshire aren't allowed in London?
This discussion has been closed.