"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
King Felipe VI, the President of the Government, Pedro Sánchez, the President of the Senate, Pilar Llop, the President of La Rioja, Concha Andreu, host of the conference and the autonomous presidents pose for the family photo upon arrival at the San Millán monastery from Yuso. Image: EFE / Chema Moya
Good to see a rule putting himself about and leading the people by example!
I think a 52 year old is probably able to take a few more risks than a 94 year old should...
That’s why I said a Royal we have enough to risk a few
You said rule: I assumed it was a typo for ruler, not royal. Sorry.
Anyone know where we are now on Boris's "simple five point scale"? Or has that whole approach now been junked.
See my 850 post! 3 was the last update, not sure if it has increased since then as it doesnt seem to be published anywhere.
I am doing my best to stay alert but the govt not helping!
My guess is, that whole approach has been quietly shelved, now that we have so many different sets of fast moving rules.
Even the declared intention to have local lockdowns has been muddied now that Manchester has one set of rules and Leicester a different set entirely.
Think when you say "sets of fast moving rules" you really mean "panic measures by the barrow load" plucked out of either Bozo's, Hancock's, Gove's or Cumming's rear end
If, just hypothetically, we imagine a scenario where one evening someone in government suddenly discovers that Eid is imminent, worries that lots of Muslims getting together risks triggering a second wave and, after a series of increasingly panicked phone calls, Bozo takes a guess that they mostly live up north and, because government comms staff had gone home for the night, decides to make up a new set of rules on the spot and then punt them out on Twitter straight away....
Did he fight in World War II or something? Why does he think its weird that the continents biggest, richest and most productive country helps the continent?
Anyone know where we are now on Boris's "simple five point scale"? Or has that whole approach now been junked.
See my 850 post! 3 was the last update, not sure if it has increased since then as it doesnt seem to be published anywhere.
I am doing my best to stay alert but the govt not helping!
My guess is, that whole approach has been quietly shelved, now that we have so many different sets of fast moving rules.
Even the declared intention to have local lockdowns has been muddied now that Manchester has one set of rules and Leicester a different set entirely.
Think when you say "sets of fast moving rules" you really mean "panic measures by the barrow load" plucked out of either Bozo's, Hancock's, Gove's or Cumming's rear end
If, just hypothetically, we imagine a scenario where one evening someone in government suddenly discovers that Eid is imminent, worries that lots of Muslims getting together risks triggering a second wave and, after a series of increasingly panicked phone calls, Bozo takes a guess that they mostly live up north and, because government comms staff had gone home for the night, decides to make up a new set of rules on the spot punt and then them out on Twitter straight away....
Probably more truth in that than I’d like. I think the areas picked were based on the data, but you may well be right about the reason for the timing.
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
Did he fight in World War II or something? Why does he think its weird that the continents biggest, richest and most productive country helps the continent?
After all the Germans (or at least the Prussians) helped save the content from tyranny on one very memorable occasion, leading to a Eurovision Song Contest win for Sweden!
That tweet was last night and a far cry from his Sky interview this am
Well the details have been announced now!
What is with you guys being unable to accept any tiny amount of criticism of the government?
I can accept criticism and there is plenty to have a go at but ultimately this pandemic is changing by the minute and decisions are having to be made instantly.
The rules for a local pandemic could have been published a month ago, so any town that it applied to would know exactly what it meant?
Not really as the rules have to be specific and targetted.
Indeed, no one knew what would happen as restrictions were removed. Andy Burnham on BBC is very clear that this is about household gatherings.
The BBC presenter is incredulous at this, but unfortunately we’re to polite in this country to be clear about what the problem is.
Yep - it's very hard to say exactly what is going on without looking scarily racist (and that's just me looking at my own posts below).
The sad thing is that it's obvious if it was possible to bet on lock down areas Birmingham and Southall would be my next bets.
Although even the current areas say it's an bigger issue in Pakistani rather than Indian areas (Pakistanis are usually poorer as well for reasons that are too complex for this post)
It is to be hoped that an actual desire to save the lives of Muslims prevails, and political correctness and 'social cohesion' will move down the priority list...
We should start with vitamin D supplements for almost everybody north of latitude ~35N. People with darker skin may need to take it all year.
Swedish deaths are reportedly concentrated among Somali immigrants.
‘Tory MSP says independence looks like the "majority" position as divisions grow over Jackson Carlaw's resignation’
Adam Tomkins said for the “first time in Scottish history” independence might not be a “minority pursuit” and described the SNP as “formidable” opponents.
He also dismissed MSP colleague Michelle Ballantyne as “laughable” after she criticised Carlaw’s performance as leader.
... It is understood [Jackson Carlaw] agreed to quit after dismal internal polling was presented to Downing Street. He faced pressure from senior Scottish Tory figures.
MP Douglas Ross, who quit as a Scotland Office Minister in protest at the Dominic Cummings row, is the frontrunner to take over.
... “The push has been coming from everywhere but I suspect it was Westminster who pushed [Carlaw].”
Anyone know where we are now on Boris's "simple five point scale"? Or has that whole approach now been junked.
See my 850 post! 3 was the last update, not sure if it has increased since then as it doesnt seem to be published anywhere.
I am doing my best to stay alert but the govt not helping!
My guess is, that whole approach has been quietly shelved, now that we have so many different sets of fast moving rules.
Even the declared intention to have local lockdowns has been muddied now that Manchester has one set of rules and Leicester a different set entirely.
Think when you say "sets of fast moving rules" you really mean "panic measures by the barrow load" plucked out of either Bozo's, Hancock's, Gove's or Cumming's rear end
If, just hypothetically, we imagine a scenario where one evening someone in government suddenly discovers that Eid is imminent, worries that lots of Muslims getting together risks triggering a second wave and, after a series of increasingly panicked phone calls, Bozo takes a guess that they mostly live up north and, because government comms staff had gone home for the night, decides to make up a new set of rules on the spot and then punt them out on Twitter straight away....
That tweet was last night and a far cry from his Sky interview this am
Well the details have been announced now!
What is with you guys being unable to accept any tiny amount of criticism of the government?
I can accept criticism and there is plenty to have a go at but ultimately this pandemic is changing by the minute and decisions are having to be made instantly.
The rules for a local pandemic could have been published a month ago, so any town that it applied to would know exactly what it meant?
Not really as the rules have to be specific and targetted.
Indeed, no one knew what would happen as restrictions were removed. Andy Burnham on BBC is very clear that this is about household gatherings.
The BBC presenter is incredulous at this, but unfortunately we’re to polite in this country to be clear about what the problem is.
Yep - it's very hard to say exactly what is going on without looking scarily racist (and that's just me looking at my own posts below).
The sad thing is that it's obvious if it was possible to bet on lock down areas Birmingham and Southall would be my next bets.
Although even the current areas say it's an bigger issue in Pakistani rather than Indian areas (Pakistanis are usually poorer as well for reasons that are too complex for this post)
It is to be hoped that an actual desire to save the lives of Muslims prevails, and political correctness and 'social cohesion' will move down the priority list...
We should start with vitamin D supplements for almost everybody north of latitude ~35N. People with darker skin may need to take it all year.
Swedish deaths are reportedly concentrated among Somali immigrants.
I quite agree, and have said so (with reference to those with darker skin) here.
That tweet was last night and a far cry from his Sky interview this am
Well the details have been announced now!
What is with you guys being unable to accept any tiny amount of criticism of the government?
I can accept criticism and there is plenty to have a go at but ultimately this pandemic is changing by the minute and decisions are having to be made instantly.
The rules for a local pandemic could have been published a month ago, so any town that it applied to would know exactly what it meant?
Not really as the rules have to be specific and targetted.
Indeed, no one knew what would happen as restrictions were removed. Andy Burnham on BBC is very clear that this is about household gatherings.
The BBC presenter is incredulous at this, but unfortunately we’re to polite in this country to be clear about what the problem is.
Yep - it's very hard to say exactly what is going on without looking scarily racist (and that's just me looking at my own posts below).
The sad thing is that it's obvious if it was possible to bet on lock down areas Birmingham and Southall would be my next bets.
Although even the current areas say it's an bigger issue in Pakistani rather than Indian areas (Pakistanis are usually poorer as well for reasons that are too complex for this post)
It is to be hoped that an actual desire to save the lives of Muslims prevails, and political correctness and 'social cohesion' will move down the priority list...
We should start with vitamin D supplements for almost everybody north of latitude ~35N. People with darker skin may need to take it all year.
Swedish deaths are reportedly concentrated among Somali immigrants.
I quite agree, and have said so (with reference to those with darker skin) here.
I have pretty fair skin and I was told last November that I was very low on vitamin-D then (I was in hospital recovering from a bout of pneumonia), so yes, not just those with darker skin.
Anyone know where we are now on Boris's "simple five point scale"? Or has that whole approach now been junked.
See my 850 post! 3 was the last update, not sure if it has increased since then as it doesnt seem to be published anywhere.
I am doing my best to stay alert but the govt not helping!
My guess is, that whole approach has been quietly shelved, now that we have so many different sets of fast moving rules.
Even the declared intention to have local lockdowns has been muddied now that Manchester has one set of rules and Leicester a different set entirely.
Think when you say "sets of fast moving rules" you really mean "panic measures by the barrow load" plucked out of either Bozo's, Hancock's, Gove's or Cumming's rear end
If, just hypothetically, we imagine a scenario where one evening someone in government suddenly discovers that Eid is imminent, worries that lots of Muslims getting together risks triggering a second wave and, after a series of increasingly panicked phone calls, Bozo takes a guess that they mostly live up north and, because government comms staff had gone home for the night, decides to make up a new set of rules on the spot and then punt them out on Twitter straight away....
I love how suddenly PB is full of Sweden experts. Based on PB’s track record in another area of claimed expertise, Scottish affairs, treat with due caution.
‘Tory MSP says independence looks like the "majority" position as divisions grow over Jackson Carlaw's resignation’
Adam Tomkins said for the “first time in Scottish history” independence might not be a “minority pursuit” and described the SNP as “formidable” opponents.
He also dismissed MSP colleague Michelle Ballantyne as “laughable” after she criticised Carlaw’s performance as leader.
... It is understood [Jackson Carlaw] agreed to quit after dismal internal polling was presented to Downing Street. He faced pressure from senior Scottish Tory figures.
MP Douglas Ross, who quit as a Scotland Office Minister in protest at the Dominic Cummings row, is the frontrunner to take over.
... “The push has been coming from everywhere but I suspect it was Westminster who pushed [Carlaw].”
"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
Not really, because there is hardly any coronavirus outside the city either.
Population density seems to me to be a very poor metric that is dependent on where you draw boundaries.
It also doesn't measure what we really want to know which is how the urban/rural environment influences how frequently people come into interaction with other people for long enough/close enough to spread the virus.
If you look at the Leicester map, the hotspots are the areas with family occupied terraced housing. The areas with semi detached or detached houses are largely unaffected.
I don't know much about Leicester, but that sounds more meaningful as a metric.
All the same, terraced housing is likely to be correlated with poorer, more likely to be in jobs exposed to COVID etc.
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
Probably not. Though there have been such claims, based on less than convincing evidence.
... voters simply looked at Mr Carlaw, and the UK party with whom he is inevitably, and to his misfortune, linked and decided that they knew all they needed to know. Golf club Toryism of the sort Mr Carlaw epitomises has its merits but is not what either the Scottish Tories or Unionism requires now.
Anyone know where we are now on Boris's "simple five point scale"? Or has that whole approach now been junked.
See my 850 post! 3 was the last update, not sure if it has increased since then as it doesnt seem to be published anywhere.
I am doing my best to stay alert but the govt not helping!
My guess is, that whole approach has been quietly shelved, now that we have so many different sets of fast moving rules.
Even the declared intention to have local lockdowns has been muddied now that Manchester has one set of rules and Leicester a different set entirely.
Think when you say "sets of fast moving rules" you really mean "panic measures by the barrow load" plucked out of either Bozo's, Hancock's, Gove's or Cumming's rear end
If, just hypothetically, we imagine a scenario where one evening someone in government suddenly discovers that Eid is imminent, worries that lots of Muslims getting together risks triggering a second wave and, after a series of increasingly panicked phone calls, Bozo takes a guess that they mostly live up north and, because government comms staff had gone home for the night, decides to make up a new set of rules on the spot and then punt them out on Twitter straight away....
That seems to be what happened.
I think the second Eid caught them unaware.
Isn't the second Eid the more important of the two ?
Whereas the first Eid, celebrating the end of Ramadan, will be I suspect much more well known about among non Muslims.
That tweet was last night and a far cry from his Sky interview this am
Well the details have been announced now!
What is with you guys being unable to accept any tiny amount of criticism of the government?
I can accept criticism and there is plenty to have a go at but ultimately this pandemic is changing by the minute and decisions are having to be made instantly.
The rules for a local pandemic could have been published a month ago, so any town that it applied to would know exactly what it meant?
Not really as the rules have to be specific and targetted.
Indeed, no one knew what would happen as restrictions were removed. Andy Burnham on BBC is very clear that this is about household gatherings.
The BBC presenter is incredulous at this, but unfortunately we’re to polite in this country to be clear about what the problem is.
Yep - it's very hard to say exactly what is going on without looking scarily racist (and that's just me looking at my own posts below).
The sad thing is that it's obvious if it was possible to bet on lock down areas Birmingham and Southall would be my next bets.
Although even the current areas say it's an bigger issue in Pakistani rather than Indian areas (Pakistanis are usually poorer as well for reasons that are too complex for this post)
It is to be hoped that an actual desire to save the lives of Muslims prevails, and political correctness and 'social cohesion' will move down the priority list...
We should start with vitamin D supplements for almost everybody north of latitude ~35N. People with darker skin may need to take it all year.
Swedish deaths are reportedly concentrated among Somali immigrants.
I quite agree, and have said so (with reference to those with darker skin) here.
I have pretty fair skin and I was told last November that I was very low on vitamin-D then (I was in hospital recovering from a bout of pneumonia), so yes, not just those with darker skin.
On a related note, we hear a lot about the ethnicity, obesity, and age, of sufferers (and fatalities), but I have heard nothing about their blood tests. I would have thought everyone admitted to hospital with coronavirus would have a blood test, possibly several. If blood tests are showing that (as an example) Vit D is deficient across severe cases with few exceptions, that's a huge thing. It could also be true of zinc, copper, potassium etc.
One of the early test centres in London was at the IKEA in Wembley, right by the North Circular, people then complained that you could only get there by car.
"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
Not really, because there is hardly any coronavirus outside the city either.
Do you think that the virus has lost some of its potency? We are at 5 -6K cases positive tests per week and whilst many will be asymptomatic the number of people in hospital nationally is contunuing to fall quickly.
‘Tory MSP says independence looks like the "majority" position as divisions grow over Jackson Carlaw's resignation’
Adam Tomkins said for the “first time in Scottish history” independence might not be a “minority pursuit” and described the SNP as “formidable” opponents.
He also dismissed MSP colleague Michelle Ballantyne as “laughable” after she criticised Carlaw’s performance as leader.
... It is understood [Jackson Carlaw] agreed to quit after dismal internal polling was presented to Downing Street. He faced pressure from senior Scottish Tory figures.
MP Douglas Ross, who quit as a Scotland Office Minister in protest at the Dominic Cummings row, is the frontrunner to take over.
... “The push has been coming from everywhere but I suspect it was Westminster who pushed [Carlaw].”
The “first time in Scottish history”?? Methinks he might want to rephrase that.
Actually Yes is still not over 50% in any poll including Don't Knows
Indeed, as we all know, all DKs are raving Brexiteers and BritNats: they always support whichever side FUDHY wants them to support. Psephological expertise à la PB.
"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
Not really, because there is hardly any coronavirus outside the city either.
Do you think the the virus has lost some of its potency? We are at 5 -6K cases postive tests per week and whilst many will be asymptomatic the number of people in hospital nationally is contunuing to fall quickly.
Clearly a different profile occurring in Spain compared to the first series of infections, lower average age, much lower hospital admissions, few moving to ICU and lower death rates (as it stands at the moment),this may all link to the lower age profile of course.
Mask observation -- the government should advertise that phones still pick up your voice if you speak with a mask on. From observation on buses, most breaking of mask protocol is people pulling masks down for half-hour phone calls (and spraying saliva into the air as they speak more loudly than needed).
Can't meet indoors. Unless you are spending money like travelling or working or drinking in which case it's fine.
They genuinely don’t know what they are doing. The lack of clarity is inexcusable. All it will do is further undermine confidence in the government’s ability to manage the crisis, which in turn will make it less likely rules are followed.
Andy Burnham 100% on same page as HMG and Hancock on Sky just now making it difficult for labour to attack the decision or communications without being contradicting Burnham
So what? It’s utterly shambolic. The lockdown may well be necessary - but if it is introduced in a way that causes confusion - and it undoubtedly has - it will not be effective. That is the point here.
Burnham seems clear and of course it is complex, but criticising for it's own sake is not beneficial to anyone
Thank God Burnham is clear. The government hasn’t been. The government deserves criticism because the government is not performing. The government is not performing because too many people in it are not up to the job. Because of that our response to the pandemic has been nowhere near good enough.
And hindsight is a great thing as Sturgeon says when coming under criticism
Hindsight is only great if you learn from it. This government fails on that front, too. No hindsight was needed to know that a government assembled solely on the basis of unswerving loyalty to an inadequate leader would not be best positioned to tackle a deadly pandemic. In any case, you are attacking Starmer for reacting negatively to a completely botched government communication. No hindsight was involved.
Looks like an effective annoncement as everyone is talking about it.
I think in future all communiques from this shower should be called annoncements.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
Not really, because there is hardly any coronavirus outside the city either.
Do you think the the virus has lost some of its potency? We are at 5 -6K cases postive tests per week and whilst many will be asymptomatic the number of people in hospital nationally is contunuing to fall quickly.
Clearly a different profile occurring in Spain compared to the first series of infections, lower average age, much lower hospital admissions, few moving to ICU and lower death rates (as it stands at the moment),this may all link to the lower age profile of course.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
What people should also be thinking about is how this bodes ill for the largest act of social gathering since February - the return of schools, in Scotland a fortnight or so from today, and in England, Wales and Northern Ireland from September.
If we can’t meet in a couple of small pubs without causing alarming surges, how do we manage many hundreds of people all in one building?
I'll be amazed if schools in England go back in September.
If they don't, there will be deaths in this household, and not from coronavirus I can tell you.
If I never post again after 3rd September, you know what's happened.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
Absolutely. I dislike Twitter in general but it serves its job here. It's like a noticeboard permanently observed by the media.
I don't get any news from Twitter directly. I get a lot from people here, on the general media sharing stuff from there.
Within minutes of this getting Tweeted out it was on Sky News, I saw it on here and my wife saw someone sharing it on Facebook.
Not sure what more people want for effective communication than having it be reported everywhere like that?
"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
Not really, because there is hardly any coronavirus outside the city either.
Do you think the the virus has lost some of its potency? We are at 5 -6K cases postive tests per week and whilst many will be asymptomatic the number of people in hospital nationally is contunuing to fall quickly.
Clearly a different profile occurring in Spain compared to the first series of infections, lower average age, much lower hospital admissions, few moving to ICU and lower death rates (as it stands at the moment),this may all link to the lower age profile of course.
Are older people still isolating?
Being more careful, in most cases, than youngsters. Some are still hiding behind their front doors but within cohorts evening drinks and meals out are the norm. We get the Madrid invasion today so more careful going forward and expect to see a further uptick in a couple of weeks.
Attacks by elite Republicans on Trump help Trump most of the time. Bad idea. They've learnt nothing from 2016.
I wonder if Jeb Bush has thought through the full ramifications of the 'loser to a bad candidate is even more of a loser' theory, considering he's the loser to the loser.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
There's Town Crier, though unfortunately there is a high risk of aerosol spread.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
Absolutely. I dislike Twitter in general but it serves its job here. It's like a noticeboard permanently observed by the media.
I don't get any news from Twitter directly. I get a lot from people here, on the general media sharing stuff from there.
Within minutes of this getting Tweeted out it was on Sky News, I saw it on here and my wife saw someone sharing it on Facebook.
Not sure what more people want for effective communication than having it be reported everywhere like that?
Presumably critics of the government on this would have preferred the announcement to have been published in the London Gazette, as in the old days.
That tweet was last night and a far cry from his Sky interview this am
Well the details have been announced now!
What is with you guys being unable to accept any tiny amount of criticism of the government?
I can accept criticism and there is plenty to have a go at but ultimately this pandemic is changing by the minute and decisions are having to be made instantly.
The rules for a local pandemic could have been published a month ago, so any town that it applied to would know exactly what it meant?
Not really as the rules have to be specific and targetted.
Indeed, no one knew what would happen as restrictions were removed. Andy Burnham on BBC is very clear that this is about household gatherings.
The BBC presenter is incredulous at this, but unfortunately we’re to polite in this country to be clear about what the problem is.
Yep - it's very hard to say exactly what is going on without looking scarily racist (and that's just me looking at my own posts below).
The sad thing is that it's obvious if it was possible to bet on lock down areas Birmingham and Southall would be my next bets.
Although even the current areas say it's an bigger issue in Pakistani rather than Indian areas (Pakistanis are usually poorer as well for reasons that are too complex for this post)
It is to be hoped that an actual desire to save the lives of Muslims prevails, and political correctness and 'social cohesion' will move down the priority list...
We should start with vitamin D supplements for almost everybody north of latitude ~35N. People with darker skin may need to take it all year.
Swedish deaths are reportedly concentrated among Somali immigrants.
That's quite a statement given how little Malmo has been affected.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
Absolutely. I dislike Twitter in general but it serves its job here. It's like a noticeboard permanently observed by the media.
I don't get any news from Twitter directly. I get a lot from people here, on the general media sharing stuff from there.
Within minutes of this getting Tweeted out it was on Sky News, I saw it on here and my wife saw someone sharing it on Facebook.
Not sure what more people want for effective communication than having it be reported everywhere like that?
Yeah because it is not like HMG has contact details for news organisations, or sends press releases umpteen times a day.
"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
Not really, because there is hardly any coronavirus outside the city either.
Thanks for that.
Does it look like it is working, or is it too difficult to say one way or the other?
I’m afraid I had a slight chuckle listening to tory MPs claiming their area should be excluded because their are was lower than the others. I didn’t hear them calling for those areas in Spain with lower infection rates to be excluded from the travel quarantine requirements.
It’s difficult for them to come straight out and say it’s to stop multi family Eid celebrations happening tonight and over the weekend, that’s why all the boroughs are included so it doesn’t look so targeted. How will they police it?
If that is the reason, then they should say so clearly. Stop treating Muslims like fools or babies. They no more want to die of or catch this disease than anyone else. Explain that in order to protect themselves and others the traditional way of celebrating Eid will have to be curbed this year, in just the same way that Christians have been unable to receive the Sacraments or worship as normal. Say that this is an emergency and the more people comply and the sooner, the quicker the restrictions can be lifted.
Stop tiptoeing around because of the fear of being called a racist or whatever. That is not just daft but dangerous in such times.
Oh - and when you make the announcement, make sure that the actual rules are actually published and not 8 hours later. Breach of these rules is a criminal offence. It is unconscionable in a Parliamentary democracy that criminal offences should be created without anyone knowing, or being able to find out, what they are.
Attacks by elite Republicans on Trump help Trump most of the time. Bad idea. They've learnt nothing from 2016.
I wonder if Jeb Bush has thought through the full ramifications of the 'loser to a bad candidate is even more of a loser' theory, considering he's the loser to the loser.
A Trump defeat is ideal for Jeb Bush as he can then run again in 2024 against Biden or his VP.
If Trump wins again Pence will likely be GOP nominee in 2024 and Jeb's chances of being President are likely gone for good and George P Bush would have to carry the torch forward
Attacks by elite Republicans on Trump help Trump most of the time. Bad idea. They've learnt nothing from 2016.
I wonder if Jeb Bush has thought through the full ramifications of the 'loser to a bad candidate is even more of a loser' theory, considering he's the loser to the loser.
A Trump defeat is ideal for Jeb Bush as he can then run again in 2024 against Biden or his VP.
If Trump wins again Pence will likely be GOP nominee in 2024 and Jeb's chances of being President are likely gone for good and George P Bush would have to carry the torch forward
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
Not really, because there is hardly any coronavirus outside the city either.
Given the probable cost in lives of it going exponential again, I think that going in early and heavy is justified.
Well it’s a glorious day on Tyneside to start my shielding. I’m currently in the garden, drinking Buxton, and working on my personal statement. Living the dream.
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
An important determinant of herd immunity is the behaviour of people wrt the virus. They could get there at a much lower incidence than we can because of that.
Attacks by elite Republicans on Trump help Trump most of the time. Bad idea. They've learnt nothing from 2016.
I wonder if Jeb Bush has thought through the full ramifications of the 'loser to a bad candidate is even more of a loser' theory, considering he's the loser to the loser.
A Trump defeat is ideal for Jeb Bush as he can then run again in 2024 against Biden or his VP.
If Trump wins again Pence will likely be GOP nominee in 2024 and Jeb's chances of being President are likely gone for good and George P Bush would have to carry the torch forward
Which torch is that apart from a name?
HYUFD seems strangely fond of political dynasties (note also his close interest in the young Kennedy). The chances of Jeb getting the nomination in four years time are, IMO, close to nil.
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
An important determinant of herd immunity is the behaviour of people wrt the virus. They could get there at a much lower incidence than we can because of that.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
I like this idea. They think the vaccine works, it does not cause any harm so just give it to care home residents as part of the ongoing trial. If it does work it will protect them, if it doesn't no harm done.
Attacks by elite Republicans on Trump help Trump most of the time. Bad idea. They've learnt nothing from 2016.
I wonder if Jeb Bush has thought through the full ramifications of the 'loser to a bad candidate is even more of a loser' theory, considering he's the loser to the loser.
A Trump defeat is ideal for Jeb Bush as he can then run again in 2024 against Biden or his VP.
If Trump wins again Pence will likely be GOP nominee in 2024 and Jeb's chances of being President are likely gone for good and George P Bush would have to carry the torch forward
Which torch is that apart from a name?
HYUFD seems strangely fond of political dynasties (note also his close interest in the young Kennedy). The chances of Jeb getting the nomination in four years time are, IMO, close to nil.
Jeb's chances may have gone but if Trump wins that sets up Joe Kennedy III for the Democratic nomination in 2024 if he wins the Massachusetts Senate race in November
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
An important determinant of herd immunity is the behaviour of people wrt the virus. They could get there at a much lower incidence than we can because of that.
I don't understand that I'm afraid.
The effective reproduction rate of the virus depends on the characteristics of the population it is infecting. One aspect of that is how people typically behave - e.g. habitual social proximity, loud or quiet talking, much talk or little talk etc. In these regards the Swedes are different from us and more conducive to lower Rt and so quicker achievement of herd immunity.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
After an election it is the winner's manifesto e.g. "Vote No to keep Scotland in the EU" that is tested, not the loser's.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
After an election it is the winner's manifesto e.g. "Vote No to keep Scotland in the EU" that is tested, not the loser's.
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
An important determinant of herd immunity is the behaviour of people wrt the virus. They could get there at a much lower incidence than we can because of that.
I don't understand that I'm afraid.
The effective reproduction rate of the virus depends on the characteristics of the population it is infecting. One aspect of that is how people typically behave - e.g. habitual social proximity, loud or quiet talking, much talk or little talk etc. In these regards the Swedes are different from us and more conducive to lower Rt and so quicker achievement of herd immunity.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
After an election it is the winner's manifesto e.g. "Vote No to keep Scotland in the EU" that is tested, not the loser's.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
I am enjoying the stones on people saying they've moved too rapidly.
I’m afraid I had a slight chuckle listening to tory MPs claiming their area should be excluded because their are was lower than the others. I didn’t hear them calling for those areas in Spain with lower infection rates to be excluded from the travel quarantine requirements.
It’s difficult for them to come straight out and say it’s to stop multi family Eid celebrations happening tonight and over the weekend, that’s why all the boroughs are included so it doesn’t look so targeted. How will they police it?
If that is the reason, then they should say so clearly. Stop treating Muslims like fools or babies. They no more want to die of or catch this disease than anyone else. Explain that in order to protect themselves and others the traditional way of celebrating Eid will have to be curbed this year, in just the same way that Christians have been unable to receive the Sacraments or worship as normal. Say that this is an emergency and the more people comply and the sooner, the quicker the restrictions can be lifted.
Stop tiptoeing around because of the fear of being called a racist or whatever. That is not just daft but dangerous in such times.
Oh - and when you make the announcement, make sure that the actual rules are actually published and not 8 hours later. Breach of these rules is a criminal offence. It is unconscionable in a Parliamentary democracy that criminal offences should be created without anyone knowing, or being able to find out, what they are.
Yes. I suspect a key issue here is that a lot of older, more vulnerable Muslims would attend Eid celebrations if they were held, with obvious consequences. By contrast, pubs, especially busy ones, are currently being attended by mainly younger people, who if they get the virus are less likely to suffer too badly. This shouldn't be too hard for the government to explain.
It looks to me as if infections are indeed rising, but the death rate isn't because most older/vulnerable people are still being very cautious; the young less so. This is why Eid celebrations are potentially a dangerous vector. Eid celebrations at the end of Ramadan were severely curtailed by lockdown, and guidance was followed.
Government should have foreseen this earlier and liaised with Muslim community leaders to curtail today's Eid get-togethers, long before last night.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
I am enjoying the stones on people saying they've moved too rapidly.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
After an election it is the winner's manifesto e.g. "Vote No to keep Scotland in the EU" that is tested, not the loser's.
Most Scottish Leave voters voted SNP in 2015
So?
Brexit has made little difference to independence polling, the highest percentage of Remain voters from any of the main Scottish parties was in the Scottish LDs, plenty of Scottish nationalists are also anti EU e.g. Jim Sillars
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
This approach might work if, and only if, the policy is complete, and coherent, and not an omnishambles.
Hancock was the radio this morning contradicting his own "very clear guidelines"
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
After an election it is the winner's manifesto e.g. "Vote No to keep Scotland in the EU" that is tested, not the loser's.
Most Scottish Leave voters voted SNP in 2015
So?
Brexit has made little difference to independence polling, the highest percentage of Remain voters from any of the main Scottish parties was in the Scottish LDs, plenty of Scottish nationalists are also anti EU e.g. Jim Sillars
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
An important determinant of herd immunity is the behaviour of people wrt the virus. They could get there at a much lower incidence than we can because of that.
I don't understand that I'm afraid.
The effective reproduction rate of the virus depends on the characteristics of the population it is infecting. One aspect of that is how people typically behave - e.g. habitual social proximity, loud or quiet talking, much talk or little talk etc. In these regards the Swedes are different from us and more conducive to lower Rt and so quicker achievement of herd immunity.
"Data from a symptom tracker app run by King's College London and healthcare company ZOE also shows that levels have plateaued, with no sign of a second wave. Their figures – based on more than 13,000 swab tests – show symptomatic Covid-19 has been stable at around 2,000 cases a day for the past month."
Telegraph.
The Hancock and Johnson have panicked themselves into a situation where they need to have almost no cases of the virus to feel that things are ok imho.
I think they panicked when cases started rising again a few weeks ago.
IMO while cases are still in the hundreds that's no problem and helps boost herd immunity a little.
Carl Henegehan is saying that if this was flu outbreak we would be saying it is over now based on these low figures.
We are going to utterly destroy our economy and causes 10Ks of unnecessary deaths if we are not careful by allowing our government to panic.
Current infection rates are under 1% of what they were at the peak in March.
But they're at a much higher proportion of what was being reported back then because of the lack of testing we had then.
I wonder if that is confusing the government.
It would seem ridiculous but given the innumeracy of politicians its a possibility.
Yes, that is part of the problem in Leicester. We have saturation door to door testing of the assymptomatic, so a high pick up rate, but falling numbers in hospital. We now have only 21 inpatients with it, and LRI is now Covid-19 free, with all the cases at Glenfield hospital. This is about 10% of what we had in May. There has been no spike in admissions, or deaths, just diagnoses.
Does that mean that in a few weeks time you would expect to see a much lower level in Leicester than its surrounding as a lot of the unseen transmission will have been eliminated by quarantining the asymptomatic?
Not really, because there is hardly any coronavirus outside the city either.
Given the probable cost in lives of it going exponential again, I think that going in early and heavy is justified.
Like many in the area, I do not think so.
It is the door to door testing and education by Leicester City Council volunteers, once the data was finally released to the council that has got things under control. Apart from damaging City businesses, and cancelling holidays nothing else was achieved by extending lockdown.
Lockdown is increasingly misused as a term, even in official advice, as it permits virtually everything apart from house guests.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
Salmond's gone and its a fundamental feature of British democracy that no Parliament can bind its successors.
I think we should respect the will of the voters at the election. I suppose you'd rather take your line from foreign powers? I think you protest too much, you are the one who wants to sow discord and go against the ballot box. Are you getting your lines from the Kremlin?
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
This approach might work if, and only if, the policy is complete, and coherent, and not an omnishambles.
Hancock was the radio this morning contradicting his own "very clear guidelines"
Perhaps if politicians are so concerned about the Government announcing new measures at very short notice and by the fastest route to get the message out, then they shouldn’t have spent so much time criticising the Government for being slow to react at the start of the pandemic (“every hour/day cost x lives...”), or even more recently when mocking things like new mask rules giving advance notice for people to adapt?
Is Starmer saying there should have been a press conference at 10pm?
With the worst death statistics in Europe, the English government has failed her people. It is simply a fact that HMG were far too slow to act in the early stages of the pandemic, when Italians, Spaniards, French and Germans were warning you of the obvious error. England is still too slow in doing the right things. What we are witnessing now is Westminster in full panic mode.
England worst. Scotland not far behind in third. Tone down the moral outrage, you risk sounding smug - with so little cause.
That the best you can do , all well as Scotland is half as bad as England and the Spanish are not great either. Not care to comment on your heroes great performance rather than pointing at squirrels.
I think it's quite clear that British overall mortality since coronavirus started leaves significant room for improvement. But I think when you divide England, Scotland, Wales and NI up, there are not really differences that indicate (to me) that Scotland, Wales or NI had better policies, or followed them with far greater rigour, or had significantly better health services leading to significantly better coronavirus survival rates.
I think the difference is largely due to the fact that Scotland, NI, and Wales are less population dense, and the virus spread there some time after England. This is backed up by the fact that rural England has behaved similar to Wales, NI and Scotland. I am not delighted about this - if Scotland had performed amazingly compared to England, that would be great, as it would have highlighted which model to follow for success with a very similar population, climate, level of services, economic success etc. All the home nations could have adopted it.
I think the success/failure by all of us should now lead to questions and improvements applied across the UK.
Most people in Scotland live densely in cities, or in the suburban central belt. Looking at the size of the country on the map doesnt really work.
This was discussed here at length, and it was established that even in the 'central belt' (which apparently includes conurbations as far flung as Perth!), population density is a lot, lot lower than in England.
Makes sense - even in England I didn’t realise that Leicester had a population density of pretty much double that of Newcastle/Tyneside.
I’m afraid I had a slight chuckle listening to tory MPs claiming their area should be excluded because their are was lower than the others. I didn’t hear them calling for those areas in Spain with lower infection rates to be excluded from the travel quarantine requirements.
It’s difficult for them to come straight out and say it’s to stop multi family Eid celebrations happening tonight and over the weekend, that’s why all the boroughs are included so it doesn’t look so targeted. How will they police it?
If that is the reason, then they should say so clearly. Stop treating Muslims like fools or babies. They no more want to die of or catch this disease than anyone else. Explain that in order to protect themselves and others the traditional way of celebrating Eid will have to be curbed this year, in just the same way that Christians have been unable to receive the Sacraments or worship as normal. Say that this is an emergency and the more people comply and the sooner, the quicker the restrictions can be lifted.
Stop tiptoeing around because of the fear of being called a racist or whatever. That is not just daft but dangerous in such times.
Oh - and when you make the announcement, make sure that the actual rules are actually published and not 8 hours later. Breach of these rules is a criminal offence. It is unconscionable in a Parliamentary democracy that criminal offences should be created without anyone knowing, or being able to find out, what they are.
Yes. I suspect a key issue here is that a lot of older, more vulnerable Muslims would attend Eid celebrations if they were held, with obvious consequences. By contrast, pubs, especially busy ones, are currently being attended by mainly younger people, who if they get the virus are less likely to suffer too badly. This shouldn't be too hard for the government to explain.
It looks to me as if infections are indeed rising, but the death rate isn't because most older/vulnerable people are still being very cautious; the young less so. This is why Eid celebrations are potentially a dangerous vector. Eid celebrations at the end of Ramadan were severely curtailed by lockdown, and guidance was followed.
Government should have foreseen this earlier and liaised with Muslim community leaders to curtail today's Eid get-togethers, long before last night.
It would have been a much more effective announcement if it came from the Muslim Council of Britain, with instructions on how to safely mark the occasion.
The Government should have reached out to Muslim leaders in Greater Manchester etc and collaborated on a set of agreed policies and messaging in order to control COVID-19 spread during Eid, in my opinion.
EDIT: I see @Foxy got there first with this suggestion.
Do you think we’ll learn the lessons of the ISC’s Russia report about why letting in the people and money from an aggressive and authoritarian state is not a good idea?
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
I am enjoying the stones on people saying they've moved too rapidly.
Air of panic though. Hancock's voice was cracking on the radio this morning.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
Absolutely. I dislike Twitter in general but it serves its job here. It's like a noticeboard permanently observed by the media.
I don't get any news from Twitter directly. I get a lot from people here, on the general media sharing stuff from there.
Within minutes of this getting Tweeted out it was on Sky News, I saw it on here and my wife saw someone sharing it on Facebook.
Not sure what more people want for effective communication than having it be reported everywhere like that?
Yeah because it is not like HMG has contact details for news organisations, or sends press releases umpteen times a day.
Why go through them as a middle man?
The Government can just Tweet out its press release and the media get it but so too can the public see it directly. Why go through Robert Peston to get your message out when you don't need to do so, but know he'll be talking about it if you get it out yourself too?
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
Absolutely. I dislike Twitter in general but it serves its job here. It's like a noticeboard permanently observed by the media.
I don't get any news from Twitter directly. I get a lot from people here, on the general media sharing stuff from there.
Within minutes of this getting Tweeted out it was on Sky News, I saw it on here and my wife saw someone sharing it on Facebook.
Not sure what more people want for effective communication than having it be reported everywhere like that?
Yeah because it is not like HMG has contact details for news organisations, or sends press releases umpteen times a day.
Why go through them as a middle man?
The Government can just Tweet out its press release and the media get it but so too can the public see it directly. Why go through Robert Peston to get your message out when you don't need to do so, but know he'll be talking about it if you get it out yourself too?
Yeah I don’t really care that it was announced on Twitter. That seems rather inconsequential.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
I am enjoying the stones on people saying they've moved too rapidly.
Air of panic though. Hancock's voice was cracking on the radio this morning.
So they're taking it seriously and this isn't an action they'd have wanted to take?
I should bloody well hope so! If they were flippant and had an air of la-dee-da about it I'd be more concerned.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
After an election it is the winner's manifesto e.g. "Vote No to keep Scotland in the EU" that is tested, not the loser's.
And we’re still waiting for the Cameron/Miliband/Clegg “Pledge” to be implemented.
Do you think we’ll learn the lessons of the ISC’s Russia report about why letting in the people and money from an aggressive and authoritarian state is not a good idea?
Me neither.
There has been an about-turn in our relations with China and Russia. Perhaps you didn't notice.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
Salmond's gone and its a fundamental feature of British democracy that no Parliament can bind its successors.
I think we should respect the will of the voters at the election. I suppose you'd rather take your line from foreign powers? I think you protest too much, you are the one who wants to sow discord and go against the ballot box. Are you getting your lines from the Kremlin?
The obvious truth that parliament can't bind its successors does not justify every or any change in itself. The understanding was clear at the time that this is a once in a generation matter, and constitutional stability requires that these sorts of disruptive referendums are rare. The result was clear. To try to dislocate part of the UK when the complexities of Brexit are being undertaken is too much at the same time. Boris would be right to rule it out altogether for now regardless of the Holyrood result.
Clearly that can't satisfy an independence supporter, but nothing can do so given that they lost decisively last time.
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
An important determinant of herd immunity is the behaviour of people wrt the virus. They could get there at a much lower incidence than we can because of that.
I don't understand that I'm afraid.
The effective reproduction rate of the virus depends on the characteristics of the population it is infecting. One aspect of that is how people typically behave - e.g. habitual social proximity, loud or quiet talking, much talk or little talk etc. In these regards the Swedes are different from us and more conducive to lower Rt and so quicker achievement of herd immunity.
Seriously? What Swedes have you been around?
Plenty.
Well I used to travel to Stockholm let's say twice every six weeks or so. And I didn't notice any particular different characteristics to the group of people I had left behind in the UK.
... A presentation was also reportedly made last week to Downing Street which included very unfavorable internal polling.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
It was a bit unlucky for you that Alex- "Russia Today"-Salmond played the "once in a lifetime" referendum a bit too early wasn't it? When he used that phrase, do you think it was a Putin type propaganda lie, or does he have a completely different understanding of the word "generation", or perhaps even the word "once"?
After an election it is the winner's manifesto e.g. "Vote No to keep Scotland in the EU" that is tested, not the loser's.
Most Scottish Leave voters voted SNP in 2015
So?
Brexit has made little difference to independence polling, the highest percentage of Remain voters from any of the main Scottish parties was in the Scottish LDs, plenty of Scottish nationalists are also anti EU e.g. Jim Sillars
On the contrary, Brexit is another nail in the coffin of the United Kingdom. It is not just the European issue itself that is the problem, but also the symbolism of Westminster forcing a policy on Scotland, despite both referendum and Holyrood being opposed. A Union of equals would have negotiated a more acceptable compromise such as EEA, or a Northern Ireland style internal UK border.
The Government should have reached out to Muslim leaders in Greater Manchester etc and collaborated on a set of agreed policies and messaging in order to control COVID-19 spread during Eid, in my opinion.
EDIT: I see @Foxy got there first with this suggestion.
Not that we're wrong but I'm interested to see that the PB collective wisdom has determined with seemingly no doubt whatsoever that the new lockdown is entirely the fault of Muslims.
One thing I’ve noticed that the current devolution settlement really amplifies the concept of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland being almost like colonies or dominions. I know they aren’t - but if you think about it, the setup is not too different.
The Prime Minister is effectively the Prime Minister of England, and for the most part governs and legislates only for England. This is especially obvious at the moment where Health is a huge focus. It therefore focuses minds when the Scottish Government wants to do something that is outside of their “competancies” or in a grey area (amplified by Brexit), it looks like them having to beg mother England for permission. I’m sure this is not lost on people in Scotland.
I’m sure I’ve not explained myself very well - but the constitutional settlement needs looking at desperately if the union is to last. The status quo just doesn’t really make much sense. (I know, Tony Blair New Labour bla bla).
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
An important determinant of herd immunity is the behaviour of people wrt the virus. They could get there at a much lower incidence than we can because of that.
I don't understand that I'm afraid.
The effective reproduction rate of the virus depends on the characteristics of the population it is infecting. One aspect of that is how people typically behave - e.g. habitual social proximity, loud or quiet talking, much talk or little talk etc. In these regards the Swedes are different from us and more conducive to lower Rt and so quicker achievement of herd immunity.
Seriously? What Swedes have you been around?
Plenty.
Well I used to travel to Stockholm let's say twice every six weeks or so. And I didn't notice any particular different characteristics to the group of people I had left behind in the UK.
Indeed, you won so “decisively” in 2014 that the BritNat high heid yin in Edinburgh just got sacked because of dire internal polling. This ain’t over.
It's a good thing Greater Manchester has a mayor. The need for differential policy implementation as whack-a-mole hotspots arise has become quite evident. We are going to have to get used to sub-national imposition and lifting of lockdowns as the epidemic evolves.
Or, we follow Sweden, and learn to live with the virus with 'soft' lockdown that does not destroy our economy and way of life.
Not sure we can do that. Swedes are different from us in their social and inter-personal behaviour which is what determines the evolution of the epidemic. They also tend to have a uniform view of the problem and policies, at least compared to us. It seems they may get to 'herd immunity' fairly soon without a vaccine. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for a vaccine and manage the spread by local lock-downs. The more sharply focussed they are the better, ideally down to neighbourhood watch levels.
Has Sweden had a far higher incidence of coronavirus in their population than we have?
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
An important determinant of herd immunity is the behaviour of people wrt the virus. They could get there at a much lower incidence than we can because of that.
I don't understand that I'm afraid.
The effective reproduction rate of the virus depends on the characteristics of the population it is infecting. One aspect of that is how people typically behave - e.g. habitual social proximity, loud or quiet talking, much talk or little talk etc. In these regards the Swedes are different from us and more conducive to lower Rt and so quicker achievement of herd immunity.
Seriously? What Swedes have you been around?
Plenty.
Well I used to travel to Stockholm let's say twice every six weeks or so. And I didn't notice any particular different characteristics to the group of people I had left behind in the UK.
It is heartening though for right wingers to accept that immigrants in Sweden are so well integrated that they have adopted Swedish social mores.
The Government should have reached out to Muslim leaders in Greater Manchester etc and collaborated on a set of agreed policies and messaging in order to control COVID-19 spread during Eid, in my opinion.
EDIT: I see @Foxy got there first with this suggestion.
Are you suggesting these agreed policies would have been enforced by law?
If not, perhaps Government data suggests that actual adherence would have been low.
If, hypothetically, you were a government minister who has made a decision late in the evening which you wanted to disseminate to the public extremely fast, could you think of a better way of doing it than using Twitter, which every journalist in the country would soon pick up, either directly or through re-tweets, and report?
I am enjoying the stones on people saying they've moved too rapidly.
Starmer's outrage seems very badly misplaced.
Starmer has a job to do. The government must be either too early or too late, and enforce too much or too little. And when there is nothing else then the way it is communicated must be attacked. This is pure routine stuff. Nothing to see.
The Government should have reached out to Muslim leaders in Greater Manchester etc and collaborated on a set of agreed policies and messaging in order to control COVID-19 spread during Eid, in my opinion.
EDIT: I see @Foxy got there first with this suggestion.
Not that we're wrong but I'm interested to see that the PB collective wisdom has determined with seemingly no doubt whatsoever that the new lockdown is entirely the fault of Muslims.
Indeed. Despite this being geographically contained within the North and not applied to London etc which is where most Muslims actually live. Very odd.
The Government should have reached out to Muslim leaders in Greater Manchester etc and collaborated on a set of agreed policies and messaging in order to control COVID-19 spread during Eid, in my opinion.
EDIT: I see @Foxy got there first with this suggestion.
Not that we're wrong but I'm interested to see that the PB collective wisdom has determined with seemingly no doubt whatsoever that the new lockdown is entirely the fault of Muslims.
I don’t think there’s any “fault” involved, but Eid is clearly a risk factor in the coming week. Just like Christmas will be. This is especially the case in areas where the rate of infection is higher.
Comments
https://twitter.com/dresserman/status/1289113457036533762
If not, then I'm not sure they would be any closer to herd immunity than the UK, lockdown or no lockdown.
Swedish deaths are reportedly concentrated among Somali immigrants.
Adam Tomkins said for the “first time in Scottish history” independence might not be a “minority pursuit” and described the SNP as “formidable” opponents.
He also dismissed MSP colleague Michelle Ballantyne as “laughable” after she criticised Carlaw’s performance as leader.
... It is understood [Jackson Carlaw] agreed to quit after dismal internal polling was presented to Downing Street. He faced pressure from senior Scottish Tory figures.
MP Douglas Ross, who quit as a Scotland Office Minister in protest at the Dominic Cummings row, is the frontrunner to take over.
... “The push has been coming from everywhere but I suspect it was Westminster who pushed [Carlaw].”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/tory-msp-says-independence-looks-22446714.amp
The “first time in Scottish history”?? Methinks he might want to rephrase that.
I think the second Eid caught them unaware.
All the same, terraced housing is likely to be correlated with poorer, more likely to be in jobs exposed to COVID etc.
Though there have been such claims, based on less than convincing evidence.
Jackson Carlaw did not jump; he was pushed.
... voters simply looked at Mr Carlaw, and the UK party with whom he is inevitably, and to his misfortune, linked and decided that they knew all they needed to know. Golf club Toryism of the sort Mr Carlaw epitomises has its merits but is not what either the Scottish Tories or Unionism requires now.
(£) https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jackson-carlaw-golf-club-tory-had-no-option-k7hnjr97n
Whereas the first Eid, celebrating the end of Ramadan, will be I suspect much more well known about among non Muslims.
Perhaps @Foxy has some observations?
We are at 5 -6K cases positive tests per week and whilst many will be asymptomatic the number of people in hospital nationally is contunuing to fall quickly.
... The broader context of Carlaw’s resignation is the disarray the pro-Union side finds itself in nine months before the Holyrood election.
The Scottish Tories, the supposed standard bearers of unionism, find themselves rudderless, while a growing number of figures are calling on “invisible” Richard Leonard to stand down as Labour leader.
Sturgeon’s poll ratings, by contrast, are soaring...
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/jackson-carlaw-conservative-leader-resigned-22445144.amp
If I never post again after 3rd September, you know what's happened.
I don't get any news from Twitter directly. I get a lot from people here, on the general media sharing stuff from there.
Within minutes of this getting Tweeted out it was on Sky News, I saw it on here and my wife saw someone sharing it on Facebook.
Not sure what more people want for effective communication than having it be reported everywhere like that?
Everything, Um, Unusual About Kodak’s Trump-Assisted Pivot to Pharmaceuticals
https://slate.com/business/2020/07/kodaks-strange-move-into-pharmaceuticals.html
Does it look like it is working, or is it too difficult to say one way or the other?
(ii) Johnson clueless and casual, yet again caught on the hop by developments, reacting in a blind panic.
Usually the old "the truth is somewhere in between" comes into its own with this sort of binary.
But in this case and indeed in the general case - of Johnson and the pandemic - I sense it is one or the other.
And I'm ruling out (i).
Stop tiptoeing around because of the fear of being called a racist or whatever. That is not just daft but dangerous in such times.
Oh - and when you make the announcement, make sure that the actual rules are actually published and not 8 hours later. Breach of these rules is a criminal offence. It is unconscionable in a Parliamentary democracy that criminal offences should be created without anyone knowing, or being able to find out, what they are.
If Trump wins again Pence will likely be GOP nominee in 2024 and Jeb's chances of being President are likely gone for good and George P Bush would have to carry the torch forward
https://news.gallup.com/poll/316448/congress-approval-drops-trump-steady.aspx
The chances of Jeb getting the nomination in four years time are, IMO, close to nil.
It contained the outbreak through strict border controls, testing and tracing cases, the widespread use of masks, and social distancing measures.
But it is not a second but a third wave of infections it is now facing and the government has warned its hospital system could face collapse."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53605329
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8578411/Coronavirus-vaccine-developed-Australian-researchers-develops-immune-response.html
It looks to me as if infections are indeed rising, but the death rate isn't because most older/vulnerable people are still being very cautious; the young less so. This is why Eid celebrations are potentially a dangerous vector. Eid celebrations at the end of Ramadan were severely curtailed by lockdown, and guidance was followed.
Government should have foreseen this earlier and liaised with Muslim community leaders to curtail today's Eid get-togethers, long before last night.
Hancock was the radio this morning contradicting his own "very clear guidelines"
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1289108042894790656
It is the door to door testing and education by Leicester City Council volunteers, once the data was finally released to the council that has got things under control. Apart from damaging City businesses, and cancelling holidays nothing else was achieved by extending lockdown.
Lockdown is increasingly misused as a term, even in official advice, as it permits virtually everything apart from house guests.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/leicester-lockdown-what-you-can-and-cannot-do
I think we should respect the will of the voters at the election. I suppose you'd rather take your line from foreign powers? I think you protest too much, you are the one who wants to sow discord and go against the ballot box. Are you getting your lines from the Kremlin?
EDIT: I see @Foxy got there first with this suggestion.
Do you think we’ll learn the lessons of the ISC’s Russia report about why letting in the people and money from an aggressive and authoritarian state is not a good idea?
Me neither.
The Government can just Tweet out its press release and the media get it but so too can the public see it directly. Why go through Robert Peston to get your message out when you don't need to do so, but know he'll be talking about it if you get it out yourself too?
I should bloody well hope so! If they were flippant and had an air of la-dee-da about it I'd be more concerned.
Clearly that can't satisfy an independence supporter, but nothing can do so given that they lost decisively last time.
The Prime Minister is effectively the Prime Minister of England, and for the most part governs and legislates only for England. This is especially obvious at the moment where Health is a huge focus. It therefore focuses minds when the Scottish Government wants to do something that is outside of their “competancies” or in a grey area (amplified by Brexit), it looks like them having to beg mother England for permission. I’m sure this is not lost on people in Scotland.
I’m sure I’ve not explained myself very well - but the constitutional settlement needs looking at desperately if the union is to last. The status quo just doesn’t really make much sense. (I know, Tony Blair New Labour bla bla).
If not, perhaps Government data suggests that actual adherence would have been low.