I am supposed to be going to a wedding in Hampshire tomorrow, with a small garden wedding reception.
Talk about short notice!
There you go. The answer to who might plan a reception on 1 August is HY FUD. Or at least, his friends or relatives.
If you had a wedding booked from March to July you may well also have moved it to August.
I believe the rules still allow wedding services with facemasks but not wedding receptions for more than 6 people rather than 30 as originally intended
I feel like I've been a bit harsh on contrarian lately, so I'll apologise for that, though I do think he goes one notch beyond conrariness on on liberty fears sometimes.
The Prime Minister literally just started his press conference quoting the infection numbers that led to this decision.
As Foxy was saying earlier, there isn’t much sign (in Leicester at least) of a surge going on hospitalisation statitistics.
The evidence from earlier in this epidemic, is that by the time the hospitalisations start to rise, it's already too late.
Fine, but it’s been a while now and there are no signs of an upsurge in Leicester. The possibility is rising that the government isn’t understanding the impact of its finally having got its testing programme into gear.
If Mr Whittaker has evidence for that then he should provide it, if he hasn't then he should lose the whip. What a disgraceful thing to say.
He's right. I've been looking at the data, it's very, very obvious that Asians are not taking the virus seriously at all. I've seen it first hand with invites to large family gatherings, 30-40 people in someone's front room all talking over each other. The NW London area has had worse infection rates than N or W London and Northwick park hospital was a disaster zone for a very long time. Asians have had a poor virus period.
I think it's also because in South Asian culture there's no such thing as personal space. It's not as bad in the UK but it's still not great.
Plus the ones in Yorkshire surely have grandparents coming out with “when I were a lad back in Pakistan.....” tales of horror.
I enjoy the Indian version of those, they invariably end with "and around half the people died".
Chris Whitty is man with enormous power over our lives, unscrutised, unaccountable and it seems, not replaceable. I'm not even sure how qualified he is to make these decisions given he is a medic and not and epidemiologist. He even hinted today he wants to constrain the people pf Britain further
This cannot be right. It cannot.
This isn;t medicine. It is tyranny.
Yes, it is a worry. We've put men who hitherto, by the very nature of their professions, were somewhat obscure, introverted, socially awkward and monomaniacal into positions of immense and unchallenged power. We can all see the psychological dangers of such a collision. Not a healthy mix.
I'm increasingly worried where this is all heading as we seem to be going towards the position that the NHS must be protected from dealing with more than a handful of cases at all costs including finally destroying our economy, sending 1000s to an early death because the NHS is shut for anything else and removing ancient rights of liberty.
Maybe the heat is getting to me and I am over reacting, but this is getting worrying.
Certainly the medical people I've been involved with since lockdown have included several almost angry at the idea a non Covid issue should come up, I'd not be surprised if the protect the nhs policy was a bit too effective.
Life has to go on even during pandemics, we cannot constantly be stopping things for fear of capacity issues.
And to read as recommended earlier in lockdown, The Naked Sun, about a world with no physical contact.
The hospital my wife works at remains empty. They have not had a Covid case for weeks. All staff still get free food in the canteen. Staff regulalrly outnumber patients on wards. All staff are on minimum contract hours and are being requested to take holidays. She used to come home from work tired, now she comes in like she has been for a stroll in a park. She is bored out of her mind
Chris Whitty is man with enormous power over our lives, unscrutised, unaccountable and it seems, not replaceable. I'm not even sure how qualified he is to make these decisions given he is a medic and not and epidemiologist. He even hinted today he wants to constrain the people pf Britain further
This cannot be right. It cannot.
This isn;t medicine. It is tyranny.
To whom should politicians listen during a pandemic if not to epidemiologists? You're obviously a fan of the US Republicans - and I can also find something to admire in their general ruthlessness - but they're following the exact strategy you recommend and it's leading them to electoral oblivion. Is the doctrinal purity of refusing to take measures to control the pandemic worth losing America to the left? Because that's what those idiots are currently on course to achieve.
The Radical "Do Nothing" Democrats are hardly anything to frighten the horses.
How can they be if they will be doing nothing?
Oh, I've said before that the mainstream Democrats are indistinguishable from moderate Republicans, and Biden is the epitome of that class. But the way US demographics are shifting, losing all branches of government now may leave the Republicans out of power for a very long time, possibly until the Democratic 'progressives' manage to gain the ascendancy. The Republicans are currently risking everything by following an intellectually-challenged fantasist on a road to nowhere...
The Prime Minister literally just started his press conference quoting the infection numbers that led to this decision.
As Foxy was saying earlier, there isn’t much sign (in Leicester at least) of a surge going on hospitalisation statitistics.
The evidence from earlier in this epidemic, is that by the time the hospitalisations start to rise, it's already too late.
Fine, but it’s been a while now and there are no signs of an upsurge in Leicester. The possibility is rising that the government isn’t understanding the impact of its finally having got its testing programme into gear.
No, it's because lockdown was reimposed and the R was brought back down to near 1. The Leicester lockdown is a success story, hopefully the North England one will be as well.
This starting to border on madness. Get the schools open like Sweden.
As I've said, there will be deaths in this household if the schools aren't back on 3rd September. I'm not quite sure yet who will kill who, but it won't be coronavirus carrying us off this mortal coil.
For anyone who was distressed at the collapse in value of their investments or pension, who has drawn some relief in the subsequent recovery in their value (particularly for investments in the US), might think that this is a good time to protect yourself against another stock market plunge. As I suggested back in June.
"face coverings will be compulsory in more indoor settings where people are likely to come into contact with people they do not know"
So do you have to now wear a mask in the gym? In fact, how can gyms still be allowed to be open, but not bowling alleys or attending an outdoor sporting event?
Its fricking ridiculous. No business can operate with these dictaks
"face coverings will be compulsory in more indoor settings where people are likely to come into contact with people they do not know"
So do you have to now wear a mask in the gym? In fact, how can gyms still be allowed to be open, but not bowling alleys or attending an outdoor sporting event?
I love the fact that if you sit quietly in a cinema you have to wear a mask but not if you are sweating and breathing heavily in a gym
I am supposed to be going to a wedding in Hampshire tomorrow, with a small garden wedding reception.
Talk about short notice!
There you go. The answer to who might plan a reception on 1 August is HY FUD. Or at least, his friends or relatives.
If you had a wedding booked from March to July you may well also have moved it to August.
I believe the rules still allow wedding services with facemasks but not wedding receptions for more than 6 people rather than 30 as originally intended
If even our own resident Bozo fanboi is reduced to saying “I believe” in response to government announcements, surely all is lost?
Chris Whitty is man with enormous power over our lives, unscrutised, unaccountable and it seems, not replaceable. I'm not even sure how qualified he is to make these decisions given he is a medic and not and epidemiologist. He even hinted today he wants to constrain the people pf Britain further
This cannot be right. It cannot.
This isn;t medicine. It is tyranny.
Yes, it is a worry. We've put men who hitherto, by the very nature of their professions, were somewhat obscure, introverted, socially awkward and monomaniacal into positions of immense and unchallenged power. We can all see the psychological dangers of such a collision. Not a healthy mix.
I'm increasingly worried where this is all heading as we seem to be going towards the position that the NHS must be protected from dealing with more than a handful of cases at all costs including finally destroying our economy, sending 1000s to an early death because the NHS is shut for anything else and removing ancient rights of liberty.
Maybe the heat is getting to me and I am over reacting, but this is getting worrying.
Certainly the medical people I've been involved with since lockdown have included several almost angry at the idea a non Covid issue should come up, I'd not be surprised if the protect the nhs policy was a bit too effective.
Life has to go on even during pandemics, we cannot constantly be stopping things for fear of capacity issues.
And to read as recommended earlier in lockdown, The Naked Sun, about a world with no physical contact.
And where the doctors do diagnosis via video link... Asimov was well ahead of the curve for a novel published in the 1950s
If Mr Whittaker has evidence for that then he should provide it, if he hasn't then he should lose the whip. What a disgraceful thing to say.
He's right. I've been looking at the data, it's very, very obvious that Asians are not taking the virus seriously at all. I've seen it first hand with invites to large family gatherings, 30-40 people in someone's front room all talking over each other. The NW London area has had worse infection rates than N or W London and Northwick park hospital was a disaster zone for a very long time. Asians have had a poor virus period.
I think it's also because in South Asian culture there's no such thing as personal space. It's not as bad in the UK but it's still not great.
Plus the ones in Yorkshire surely have grandparents coming out with “when I were a lad back in Pakistan.....” tales of horror.
I enjoy the Indian version of those, they invariably end with "and around half the people died".
You will be completely unsurprised to hear there is a Peruvian version of the above. Complete with the tales of the Good Olde Days*
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
If Mr Whittaker has evidence for that then he should provide it, if he hasn't then he should lose the whip. What a disgraceful thing to say.
He's right. I've been looking at the data, it's very, very obvious that Asians are not taking the virus seriously at all. I've seen it first hand with invites to large family gatherings, 30-40 people in someone's front room all talking over each other. The NW London area has had worse infection rates than N or W London and Northwick park hospital was a disaster zone for a very long time. Asians have had a poor virus period.
I think it's also because in South Asian culture there's no such thing as personal space. It's not as bad in the UK but it's still not great.
Plus the ones in Yorkshire surely have grandparents coming out with “when I were a lad back in Pakistan.....” tales of horror.
I enjoy the Indian version of those, they invariably end with "and around half the people died".
You will be completely unsurprised to hear there is a Peruvian version of the above. Complete with the tales of the Good Olde Days*
The best ones are those where they say "things were better back then, but I had to work from 5am to 11pm everyday for 18 rupees, life was simple" etc...
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Paging Sunil..the oldest rolling stock in use on the UKs’s rail network, dating from 1938, is being replaced, and buyers are being sought for the old trains:
I'm sick and tired of hearing about these Government rules and regulations after they have first been announced in the social media, which believe it or not many millions of us choose not to use. Whereabouts can one find the definitive do's and don'ts?
With parliament not sitting and Mrs Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha on holiday in Scotland, there is obviously no legislation, but I presume that the government must issue a Statutory Order, and publish it. Where is this to be read?
Many thanks Nigelb for directing me to the Government's specific regulations which were introduced from midnight last night for the restricted areas. Quite how one is supposed to access this detailed information if you are neither computer literate nor like many millions of others do not subscribe to the likes of Twitter or Facebook, etc I have no idea.
Probably in the same way as you would have done before Twitter and Facebook existed, although now you have a lot more options.
Not strictly so actually. In the pre-computer age, say 20 years ago, urgent important messages to the public would have been communicated by full page advertisements in the national & major regional newspapers. Not feasible these days as so few bother to read such newspapers.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Chris Whitty is man with enormous power over our lives, unscrutised, unaccountable and it seems, not replaceable. I'm not even sure how qualified he is to make these decisions given he is a medic and not and epidemiologist. He even hinted today he wants to constrain the people pf Britain further
This cannot be right. It cannot.
This isn;t medicine. It is tyranny.
To whom should politicians listen during a pandemic if not to epidemiologists? You're obviously a fan of the US Republicans - and I can also find something to admire in their general ruthlessness - but they're following the exact strategy you recommend and it's leading them to electoral oblivion. Is the doctrinal purity of refusing to take measures to control the pandemic worth losing America to the left? Because that's what those idiots are currently on course to achieve.
The Radical "Do Nothing" Democrats are hardly anything to frighten the horses.
How can they be if they will be doing nothing?
Oh, I've said before that the mainstream Democrats are indistinguishable from moderate Republicans, and Biden is the epitome of that class. But the way US demographics are shifting, losing all branches of government now may leave the Republicans out of power for a very long time, possibly until the Democratic 'progressives' manage to gain the ascendancy. The Republicans are currently risking everything by following an intellectually-challenged fantasist on a road to nowhere...
The demographic argument making a resurgence. According to the 2008 version, the Tea Party (and then Trump) should never have happened, because with Obama's election, the demographics had already shifted to ensure that the GOP would never again be in power. According to the 2012 version, the GOP faced extinction.
As demographics shift, so do the issues, the parties, and the centre. Everything rebalances, even if it make take a cycle or two. But not 'a very long time'.
If Mr Whittaker has evidence for that then he should provide it, if he hasn't then he should lose the whip. What a disgraceful thing to say.
He's right. I've been looking at the data, it's very, very obvious that Asians are not taking the virus seriously at all. I've seen it first hand with invites to large family gatherings, 30-40 people in someone's front room all talking over each other. The NW London area has had worse infection rates than N or W London and Northwick park hospital was a disaster zone for a very long time. Asians have had a poor virus period.
I think it's also because in South Asian culture there's no such thing as personal space. It's not as bad in the UK but it's still not great.
Plus the ones in Yorkshire surely have grandparents coming out with “when I were a lad back in Pakistan.....” tales of horror.
I enjoy the Indian version of those, they invariably end with "and around half the people died".
You will be completely unsurprised to hear there is a Peruvian version of the above. Complete with the tales of the Good Olde Days*
The best ones are those where they say "things were better back then, but I had to work from 5am to 11pm everyday for 18 rupees, life was simple" etc...
Once translation issues got sorted out, everyone admitted that the following is just true.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
I think he contracted it out to save money. Apparently the private company doing it used to run IT projects for the British government.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
The driver's 10 years 8 months is a minimum. No automatic parole.
Not remotely long enough IMO and I'll metaphorically eat my hat if he's still in prison 10 years and 9 months from now.
He will be as the minimum time before parole is 66% of the sentence (except for non-violent cases). This is a violent case so the rules are very clear cut.
And unless he shows remorse he won't be getting out in 10 years anyway.
For anyone who was distressed at the collapse in value of their investments or pension, who has drawn some relief in the subsequent recovery in their value (particularly for investments in the US), might think that this is a good time to protect yourself against another stock market plunge. As I suggested back in June.
Already done it, to a large extent. Trouble is, there are no safe havens at the moment. Gilts? Index-linked Gilts? Corporate Bonds?
I agree with you that the stockmarkets have been defying gravity for a while now. Its obvious that we are experiencing a dramatic fall in GDP but this has not been mirrored by market falls. Why?
The only answer is that weight of money on the demand side (i.e. to buy shares) is still present. If it continues to be sustained then the markets will continue to be propped up. But will it be sustained? How can it?
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
I think he contracted it out to save money. Apparently the private company doing it used to run IT projects for the British government.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
The driver's 10 years 8 months is a minimum. No automatic parole.
Not remotely long enough IMO and I'll metaphorically eat my hat if he's still in prison 10 years and 9 months from now.
He will be as the minimum time before parole is 66% of the sentence (except for non-violent cases). This is a violent case so the rules are very clear cut.
And unless he shows remorse he won't be getting out in 10 years anyway.
I'm sure he'll find a way to feign remorse so he can get out.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
I told my daughter from a young age (6) there was no Santa (much to the worry of parents of her classmates). Partly because she was questioning and i did not want to think she was wrong to be so but also that that silly threat of no presents if naughty is both bad parenting and also does make kids or poor parents think they have not been as valued by Santa.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Maybe the rich parents use their wealth to top-up @TheScreamingEagles’s Santa vouchers.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
Punishes bad behaviour, not very lefty.
Virtue signals punishing bad behaviour, but actually just rewards the richest kids with the most presents. Yes could be a Bluekip Santa.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
It's worth saying (and this is from the Mail) Henry Long, 19, was given 16 years for the same charge after a 25 per cent discount because of his guilty plea.
So it looks like he would have got 20+ years except for the fact he pleaded guilty to Manslaughter expecting a far lighter sentence - which explains why the others got 13 years as that's usually 2/3's of the chief sentence.
For anyone who was distressed at the collapse in value of their investments or pension, who has drawn some relief in the subsequent recovery in their value (particularly for investments in the US), might think that this is a good time to protect yourself against another stock market plunge. As I suggested back in June.
Already done it, to a large extent. Trouble is, there are no safe havens at the moment. Gilts? Index-linked Gilts? Corporate Bonds?
I agree with you that the stockmarkets have been defying gravity for a while now. Its obvious that we are experiencing a dramatic fall in GDP but this has not been mirrored by market falls. Why?
The only answer is that weight of money on the demand side (i.e. to buy shares) is still present. If it continues to be sustained then the markets will continue to be propped up. But will it be sustained? How can it?
I think it has been a combination of lack of any decent interest-bearing alternative (i.e.people selling shares have nowhere else attractive to put the money) and anticipation that, the worse things get, the more willing central banks will be to magic new funds out of nowhere to keep markets afloat.
Nevertheless it remains my view that, as I posted here back in June, any summer recovery will likely end at some point in the autumn when the true scale of the long term damage done to our consumer-based economy finally starts to sink in.
The one caveat is that a successful (or apparently successful) vaccine will send markets shooting upwards.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
Punishes bad behaviour, not very lefty.
Plus very authoritarian. Making lists, stalking people, making them live under the threat of a visit in the middle of the night.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
And the less said about an old white man's exploitation of the indigenous Laplanders, the better...
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
[Citation Needed]
He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
Punishes bad behaviour, not very lefty.
Plus very authoritarian. Making lists, stalking people, making them live under the threat of a visit in the middle of the night.
For anyone who was distressed at the collapse in value of their investments or pension, who has drawn some relief in the subsequent recovery in their value (particularly for investments in the US), might think that this is a good time to protect yourself against another stock market plunge. As I suggested back in June.
Already done it, to a large extent. Trouble is, there are no safe havens at the moment. Gilts? Index-linked Gilts? Corporate Bonds?
I agree with you that the stockmarkets have been defying gravity for a while now. Its obvious that we are experiencing a dramatic fall in GDP but this has not been mirrored by market falls. Why?
The only answer is that weight of money on the demand side (i.e. to buy shares) is still present. If it continues to be sustained then the markets will continue to be propped up. But will it be sustained? How can it?
I think it has been a combination of lack of any decent interest-bearing alternative (i.e.people selling shares have nowhere else attractive to put the money) and anticipation that, the worse things get, the more willing central banks will be to magic new funds out of nowhere to keep markets afloat.
Nevertheless it remains my view that, as I posted here back in June, any summer recovery will likely end at some point in the autumn when the true scale of the long term damage done to our consumer-based economy finally starts to sink in.
The one caveat is that a successful (or apparently successful) vaccine will send markets shooting upwards.
The vaccine news stream seems moderately positive or better? And the biggest US companies are not heavily negatively impacted, indeed its good for the likes of Amazon, Microsoft, Netflix, Zoom etc.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
[Citation Needed]
He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.
Right of centre.
I started to have doubts when I realised that Santa shopped in the County Stores, my grandmother’s favourite Taunton food seller.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
[Citation Needed]
He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.
Right of centre.
He's also not very inclusive, lots of Jewish, Muslim and Hindu children don't get presents from him, that's not very lefty.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
You only serve half your term if the sentence is below 4 years
You never serve the minimum for a sentence longer than 4 years. Thats when they will start considering you for parole. With good behaviour they will serve around 4/5 of their sentence.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
It's worth saying (and this is from the Mail) Henry Long, 19, was given 16 years for the same charge after a 25 per cent discount because of his guilty plea.
So it looks like he would have got 20+ years except for the fact he pleaded guilty to Manslaughter expecting a far lighter sentence - which explains why the others got 13 years as that's usually 2/3's of the chief sentence.
To be fair to the judge he said he was treating it closer to a case of murder than gross carelessness manslaughter, hence he sentenced the 3 to a total of 42 years
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
In which case we would need a substantial investment in our prisons system.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
The Boris Rule is spreading! Are you saying you're Finnished with him?
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
[Citation Needed]
He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.
Right of centre.
He's also not very inclusive, lots of Jewish, Muslim and Hindu children don't get presents from him, that's not very lefty.
It's OK, I'm convinced. I was wrong. Claus is hard right.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
What's wrong with Father Christmas?
It is branding the position as male only and therefore falls foul of employment discrimination laws
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
What's wrong with Father Christmas?
An awful lot, as this thread is demonstrating. His politics absolutely stink.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
In which case we would need a very substantial investment in our prisons system.
Or maybe we could eliminate victimless crimes like drugs, prostitution etc by legalising those and stop incarcerating people for victimless crimes while still incarcerating murderers for life. 15% of prisoners are there for nothing more serious than a drugs offence, an order of magnitude more times than the number of murderers in prison.
But even if it was required then cutting costs should not be a justification for releasing murderers.
The only reason I don't support the death penalty for murder is that you might execute an innocent person and if someone is still in jail you can release them if you later find them to be innocent. If someone has been executed you can't unexecute them, but that's not a reason to ever release them back on the streets.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
What's wrong with Father Christmas?
It is branding the position as male only and therefore falls foul of employment discrimination laws
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Are you making a case for the restoration of the death penalty?
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
The Boris Rule is spreading! Are you saying you're Finnished with him?
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Only 300 people a year go to prison for murder, versus 15% of our prison population being there for drugs offences (which I'd like to eliminate completely by Canadian style legalisation).
Why would we need a hell of a lot more prisons? Surely our prison population are largely there for non-murder offences.
I hear your concerns about full life sentences but that's not a reason not to have them. Yes we should rehabilitate petty thieves etc - but murderers? Sorry, no.
Chris Whitty is man with enormous power over our lives, unscrutised, unaccountable and it seems, not replaceable. I'm not even sure how qualified he is to make these decisions given he is a medic and not and epidemiologist. He even hinted today he wants to constrain the people pf Britain further
This cannot be right. It cannot.
This isn;t medicine. It is tyranny.
Yes, it is a worry. We've put men who hitherto, by the very nature of their professions, were somewhat obscure, introverted, socially awkward and monomaniacal into positions of immense and unchallenged power. We can all see the psychological dangers of such a collision. Not a healthy mix.
I'm increasingly worried where this is all heading as we seem to be going towards the position that the NHS must be protected from dealing with more than a handful of cases at all costs including finally destroying our economy, sending 1000s to an early death because the NHS is shut for anything else and removing ancient rights of liberty.
Maybe the heat is getting to me and I am over reacting, but this is getting worrying.
Certainly the medical people I've been involved with since lockdown have included several almost angry at the idea a non Covid issue should come up, I'd not be surprised if the protect the nhs policy was a bit too effective.
Life has to go on even during pandemics, we cannot constantly be stopping things for fear of capacity issues.
And to read as recommended earlier in lockdown, The Naked Sun, about a world with no physical contact.
The hospital my wife works at remains empty. They have not had a Covid case for weeks. All staff still get free food in the canteen. Staff regulalrly outnumber patients on wards. All staff are on minimum contract hours and are being requested to take holidays. She used to come home from work tired, now she comes in like she has been for a stroll in a park. She is bored out of her mind
When are people going to wake up ffs?? I cannot believe how people are swallowing this bullshit:
Masks on public transport Masks in shops Masks in places of worship Next - masks in the office, school, street, park, your own home And 90 odd % of people will still do it.
More lockdowns. The physical, mental, financial and spiritual health of a nation steadily being sapped day by day.
Despite the fact that as you say the NHS is twiddling its useless thumbs.
I never believed in conspiracy theories of any kind before this. But this has gone beyond incompetence now. There has to be an agenda at work. And the compliant masses just sleepwalk straight into it. Just unbelievably depressed about the future of this country and the world.
Has the Gov't started thinking about christmas ? Or more soon the schools reopening ?
Will there be an exception in the regulations for Santa Claus or will he have to leave presents outside for everyone except those in his bubble?
Just remember to leave the hand sanitiser bottle out next to the mince pie and sherry.
We're going to do that!
The surprise is that a right winger such as your good self still expects to be receiving free handouts.
Father Christmas is a good right wing symbol.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
Credit to you for being willing to put out the hand sanitiser in anticipation of exchange for a lump of coal.
I've always managed to be on the nice list so far.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
Perhaps it means that in a parallel universe somewhere, Santa is giving having a social conscience a higher weighting?
Perhaps but I see no evidence that in our universe Santa cares about it.
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Santa is left of centre. I think most accept this.
He leaves more expensive presents for children of richer parents.
Totally regressive.
Actually hadn't thought of that. That makes Santa rather like private schools and thus to be phased out.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
In fact I'm not calling him Santa anymore from now until he's phased out. It's Claus.
What's wrong with Father Christmas?
An awful lot, as this thread is demonstrating. His politics absolutely stink.
It's a bit like communism. You start out thinking it's about giving the deserving what they need, but it turns out to be anything but.
Chris Whitty is man with enormous power over our lives, unscrutised, unaccountable and it seems, not replaceable. I'm not even sure how qualified he is to make these decisions given he is a medic and not and epidemiologist. He even hinted today he wants to constrain the people pf Britain further
This cannot be right. It cannot.
This isn;t medicine. It is tyranny.
Yes, it is a worry. We've put men who hitherto, by the very nature of their professions, were somewhat obscure, introverted, socially awkward and monomaniacal into positions of immense and unchallenged power. We can all see the psychological dangers of such a collision. Not a healthy mix.
I'm increasingly worried where this is all heading as we seem to be going towards the position that the NHS must be protected from dealing with more than a handful of cases at all costs including finally destroying our economy, sending 1000s to an early death because the NHS is shut for anything else and removing ancient rights of liberty.
Maybe the heat is getting to me and I am over reacting, but this is getting worrying.
Certainly the medical people I've been involved with since lockdown have included several almost angry at the idea a non Covid issue should come up, I'd not be surprised if the protect the nhs policy was a bit too effective.
Life has to go on even during pandemics, we cannot constantly be stopping things for fear of capacity issues.
And to read as recommended earlier in lockdown, The Naked Sun, about a world with no physical contact.
The hospital my wife works at remains empty. They have not had a Covid case for weeks. All staff still get free food in the canteen. Staff regulalrly outnumber patients on wards. All staff are on minimum contract hours and are being requested to take holidays. She used to come home from work tired, now she comes in like she has been for a stroll in a park. She is bored out of her mind
When are people going to wake up ffs?? I cannot believe how people are swallowing this bullshit. Masks on public transport Masks in shops Masks in places of worship Next - places in the office, school, street, park, your own home And 90 odd % of people will still do it.
More lockdowns. The physical, mental, financial and spiritual health of a nation steadily being sapped day by day.
Despite the fact that as you say the NHS is twiddling its useless thumbs.
I never believed in conspiracy theories of any kind before this. But this has gone beyond incompetence now. There has to be an agenda at work. And the compliant masses just sleepwalk straight into it. Just unbelievably depressed about the future of this country and the world.
There is an agenda. The agenda is obvious. The agenda is publicly stated.
The agenda is to control the pandemic and to avoid deaths. We already have roughly 50,000 dead, we would have hundreds of thousands more dead in this country if we let the virus sweep through the entire nation.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Only 300 people a year go to prison for murder, versus 15% of our prison population being there for drugs offences (which I'd like to eliminate completely by Canadian style legalisation).
Why would we need a hell of a lot more prisons? Surely our prison population are largely there for non-murder offences.
I hear your concerns about full life sentences but that's not a reason not to have them. Yes we should rehabilitate petty thieves etc - but murderers? Sorry, no.
I'm surprised you haven't argued for the death penalty (on economic saving grounds).
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Only 300 people a year go to prison for murder, versus 15% of our prison population being there for drugs offences (which I'd like to eliminate completely by Canadian style legalisation).
Why would we need a hell of a lot more prisons? Surely our prison population are largely there for non-murder offences.
I hear your concerns about full life sentences but that's not a reason not to have them. Yes we should rehabilitate petty thieves etc - but murderers? Sorry, no.
I'm surprised you haven't argued for the death penalty (on economic saving grounds).
The only reason I don't support the death penalty for murder is that you might execute an innocent person and if someone is still in jail you can release them if you later find them to be innocent. If someone has been executed you can't unexecute them, but that's not a reason to ever release them back on the streets.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Only 300 people a year go to prison for murder, versus 15% of our prison population being there for drugs offences (which I'd like to eliminate completely by Canadian style legalisation).
Why would we need a hell of a lot more prisons? Surely our prison population are largely there for non-murder offences.
I hear your concerns about full life sentences but that's not a reason not to have them. Yes we should rehabilitate petty thieves etc - but murderers? Sorry, no.
I'm surprised you haven't argued for the death penalty (on economic saving grounds).
The only reason I don't support the death penalty for murder is that you might execute an innocent person and if someone is still in jail you can release them if you later find them to be innocent. If someone has been executed you can't unexecute them, but that's not a reason to ever release them back on the streets.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Only 300 people a year go to prison for murder, versus 15% of our prison population being there for drugs offences (which I'd like to eliminate completely by Canadian style legalisation).
Why would we need a hell of a lot more prisons? Surely our prison population are largely there for non-murder offences.
I hear your concerns about full life sentences but that's not a reason not to have them. Yes we should rehabilitate petty thieves etc - but murderers? Sorry, no.
Prisons and their capacity are designed for a transient population. A proportion of that population that is not transient will have an accumulative effect. In practice we are already seeing this. Many sentences have actually got higher over the last couple of decades (contrary to popular perception). The increasing prison population is the result.
And even murderers can usually be redeemed. The exceptions of the physically dangerous psychopaths are thankfully very small in number.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Only 300 people a year go to prison for murder, versus 15% of our prison population being there for drugs offences (which I'd like to eliminate completely by Canadian style legalisation).
Why would we need a hell of a lot more prisons? Surely our prison population are largely there for non-murder offences.
I hear your concerns about full life sentences but that's not a reason not to have them. Yes we should rehabilitate petty thieves etc - but murderers? Sorry, no.
I'm surprised you haven't argued for the death penalty (on economic saving grounds).
The only reason I don't support the death penalty for murder is that you might execute an innocent person and if someone is still in jail you can release them if you later find them to be innocent. If someone has been executed you can't unexecute them, but that's not a reason to ever release them back on the streets.
He pleaded guilty ...
He wouldn't have done if the judge had the black cap on.
10 years and 8 months for the driver of the vehicle that killed PC Harper 8 years and 8 months for the other two.
That's what they'll actually serve.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
A starting point for murder is 15 years so the driver actually got more than that.
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
That 15 years can be considered appropriate for murder is a problem in itself, not a justification.
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
There are so many problems with that. Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise. Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity. Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners. Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Are you making a case for the restoration of the death penalty?
No, I don't have sufficient confidence in the criminal justice system for that. But it would be a possible conclusion.
Comments
I believe the rules still allow wedding services with facemasks but not wedding receptions for more than 6 people rather than 30 as originally intended
8 years and 8 months for the other two.
16 years and 13 years are the sentences. So not life sentences.
He doesn't simply give gifts to simply everyone. He draws up a list and checks it twice, he checks whether you've been naughty or nice. If you're naughty then you get a lump of coal so your own behaviour matters.
What that means for his checking abilities I'm not sure.
https://onthewight.com/new-homes-sought-for-island-lines-soon-to-be-retired-80-year-old-trains/
As demographics shift, so do the issues, the parties, and the centre. Everything rebalances, even if it make take a cycle or two. But not 'a very long time'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k
If anything I thought the usual controversy is that Santa may consider the children of rich parents to be nicer behaved based on what he leaves them? Santa seems a very right not left wing symbol, there is no evidence of egalitarianism regardless of naughty or nice behaviour from Santa.
Would have got the headline "PC Harper killers get life" - but with the probable actual sentence about what it will likely be anyway with this.
On reflection, I was perhaps overthinking it.
And unless he shows remorse he won't be getting out in 10 years anyway.
I agree with you that the stockmarkets have been defying gravity for a while now. Its obvious that we are experiencing a dramatic fall in GDP but this has not been mirrored by market falls. Why?
The only answer is that weight of money on the demand side (i.e. to buy shares) is still present. If it continues to be sustained then the markets will continue to be propped up. But will it be sustained? How can it?
The problem here is not the verdict or the sentence but the system that means you only serve half your term.
Totally regressive.
Headline - 9
7 days - 8
Yesterday - 1
So it looks like he would have got 20+ years except for the fact he pleaded guilty to Manslaughter expecting a far lighter sentence - which explains why the others got 13 years as that's usually 2/3's of the chief sentence.
Nevertheless it remains my view that, as I posted here back in June, any summer recovery will likely end at some point in the autumn when the true scale of the long term damage done to our consumer-based economy finally starts to sink in.
The one caveat is that a successful (or apparently successful) vaccine will send markets shooting upwards.
Wash Hands >> Cover Face >> Make space
He leaves presents based upon naughty/nice behaviour - and arguably based on parental earnings.
Right of centre.
Hong Kong asks China’s top legislative body to resolve legal problems with postponing elections
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/31/hong-kong-china-legal-problems-postponing-elections-389348
Life should mean life. If you get a life sentence because you murdered someone then you should spend the rest of your life in jail. You should die in prison. That should happen with these killers.
PB at its best - a thoughtful contribution changing my mind on an important issue.
You never serve the minimum for a sentence longer than 4 years. Thats when they will start considering you for parole. With good behaviour they will serve around 4/5 of their sentence.
Surely the epitome of pale, male, and stale.
But even if it was required then cutting costs should not be a justification for releasing murderers.
The only reason I don't support the death penalty for murder is that you might execute an innocent person and if someone is still in jail you can release them if you later find them to be innocent. If someone has been executed you can't unexecute them, but that's not a reason to ever release them back on the streets.
Firstly we would need to build a hell of a lot more prisons. We already imprison significantly more than the European average but our prison population would rise and rise.
Secondly, handling and dealing with prisoners who have no possibility of parole is both dangerous and difficult. They have no incentive to co-operate, not to be violent to staff and other prisoners, they can act with impunity.
Thirdly, a civilised prison system is built on redemption as well as punishment. That simply won't work with full life prisoners.
Fourthly, even more than has already happened with historic sex offenders, it means our prisons need to be set up as hospitals to deal with old age inmates who are to die there. This would be both inefficient and difficult to staff.
No normal person would fail to be angry at these people and want them properly punished for what they have done but full life prison sentences are not the answer for them or indeed more than a few very dangerous others.
Why would we need a hell of a lot more prisons? Surely our prison population are largely there for non-murder offences.
I hear your concerns about full life sentences but that's not a reason not to have them. Yes we should rehabilitate petty thieves etc - but murderers? Sorry, no.
Masks on public transport
Masks in shops
Masks in places of worship
Next - masks in the office, school, street, park, your own home
And 90 odd % of people will still do it.
More lockdowns. The physical, mental, financial and spiritual health of a nation steadily being sapped day by day.
Despite the fact that as you say the NHS is twiddling its useless thumbs.
I never believed in conspiracy theories of any kind before this. But this has gone beyond incompetence now. There has to be an agenda at work. And the compliant masses just sleepwalk straight into it. Just unbelievably depressed about the future of this country and the world.
It seems though that the proposition "Santa is right wing" is one such debate though? Are we agreed?
Because the elves/parents do all the work and then a guy in a suit takes all the credit.
The agenda is to control the pandemic and to avoid deaths. We already have roughly 50,000 dead, we would have hundreds of thousands more dead in this country if we let the virus sweep through the entire nation.
And even murderers can usually be redeemed. The exceptions of the physically dangerous psychopaths are thankfully very small in number.