... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
The failure on masks is simply inexcusable. That's all there is to it.
This is a calamitous screw-up across the board, and the scientists are as much to blame as the politicians. Jonathan van Tam was boasting about his mask knowledge back in early March ("my friend in Hong Kong says they are pointless"). The Deputy CMO Jenny Harries said "masks are actively useless" many weeks ago.
She did not understand the concept of masks as a barrier to asymptomatic transmission to others, and she thought masks actually "trap the virus" near your mouth or nose or whatever. TThis is like a surgeon bleeding you with leeches for the canker. I knew she was utterly wrong back then and I have a decent Chemistry GCSE.
Sack her. Sack her now.
"Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in."
It’s been obvious for some time that Harries is actively useless. Previously held a senior post in PHE, which gives an indication of the quality of management in that organisation...
She should be sacked tomorrow and made to cover herself with ashes and ordure.
Instead she will get a gong and a pension, and everyone will quietly forget her utter incompetence.
Unless - unless - we have a very serious inquiry which scruitnizes all, from the Cabinet to the Boffins. No one should be unexamined. All should pay for the crass inpetitude.
I am not holding my breath (unless I am in Waitrose without a mask)
Won't happen even if they find her at fault it will just mean a couple of years salary as a golden parachute and a higher paid job elsewhere
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
Eldest has been told all courses Online at Manchester for 3rd year. So will go to live with boyfriend in Scotland. Much cheaper. Win win. Apart from the landlord. And the rest of Longsight.
I've been suffering increasing anxiety this last week or so. Working 3 days a week and furlough the other two makes for am I working (a 5 day week compressed into 3) or can sit on my arse? Brain doesn't know if I am coming or going frankly.
It's really not being helped by these cockwombles. A week on Friday I can go the gym and work myself into a sweaty mess indoors without a mask. Because it's safe. But cannot go indoors into a shop without a mask. Because it isn't safe.
Use your common sense? Come on. Some loon mentioned 4 years to an election - do you think I care about that? This is about our lives and sanity. Or lack of.
Best of luck. We all have to do our own risk assessment every day. Anxiety is a bastard.
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
Eldest has been told all courses Online at Manchester for 3rd year. So will go to live with boyfriend in Scotland. Much cheaper. Win win. Apart from the landlord. And the rest of Longsight.
The irony is (and accepting the fact that the risks for those who are young and healthy are low but not completely non existent) if there was one sector of the economy that should be able to operate pretty much as normal In the face of this virus it is the University sector. Young people largely co-existing in a social bubble with largely low levels of contact with vulnerable groups). If they are not able to bring themselves to accept a reasonable assessed (as opposed to attempted non existent) risk for the good of their students and their local economies then what hope is there for anywhere?
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
The failure on masks is simply inexcusable. That's all there is to it.
This is a calamitous screw-up across the board, and the scientists are as much to blame as the politicians. Jonathan van Tam was boasting about his mask knowledge back in early March ("my friend in Hong Kong says they are pointless"). The Deputy CMO Jenny Harries said "masks are actively useless" many weeks ago.
She did not understand the concept of masks as a barrier to asymptomatic transmission to others, and she thought masks actually "trap the virus" near your mouth or nose or whatever. TThis is like a surgeon bleeding you with leeches for the canker. I knew she was utterly wrong back then and I have a decent Chemistry GCSE.
Sack her. Sack her now.
"Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in."
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
I predict. A large number of complaints to the Police. And very few fines. And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness. And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined. Betcha a fiver.
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
"making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs."
I think I may have done the wrong course if that is what is supposed to happen.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
I predict. A large number of complaints to the Police. And very few fines. And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness. And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined. Betcha a fiver.
I think it's Farage's next publicity stunt sorted anyway.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
I predict. A large number of complaints to the Police. And very few fines. And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness. And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined. Betcha a fiver.
I mentioned earlier that I believe (could well be wrong) that on public transport you can effectively self certify yourself to be eligible to except yourself from the requirement. Wonder if they’ll do the same thing here...
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
Eldest has been told all courses Online at Manchester for 3rd year. So will go to live with boyfriend in Scotland. Much cheaper. Win win. Apart from the landlord. And the rest of Longsight.
The irony is (and accepting the fact that the risks for those who are young and healthy are low but not completely non existent) if there was one sector of the economy that should be able to operate pretty much as normal In the face of this virus it is the University sector. Young people largely co-existing in a social bubble with largely low levels of contact with vulnerable groups). If they are not able to bring themselves to accept a reasonable assessed (as opposed to attempted non existent) risk for the good of their students and their local economies then what hope is there for anywhere?
To be fair. The students themselves had precisely zero input in any decision making. Wouldn't be surprised if refunds weren't in order.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
I predict. A large number of complaints to the Police. And very few fines. And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness. And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined. Betcha a fiver.
I think it's Farage's next pr stunt sorted anyway.
There's a typo in your post.
When it comes to Farage it's not stunt it's spelt see you next Tuesday.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
I predict. A large number of complaints to the Police. And very few fines. And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness. And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined. Betcha a fiver.
I think it's Farage's next publicity stunt sorted anyway.
All the virtue signalling will be from the mask wearers.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
I predict. A large number of complaints to the Police. And very few fines. And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness. And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined. Betcha a fiver.
I think it's Farage's next publicity stunt sorted anyway.
All the virtue signalling will be from the mask wearers.
Indeed. Masks work. Wearing them is a virtue.
Like good manners. Saying please and thank you is a virtue too, do you spit at people who do that?
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
Long enough to destroy High Streets.
Again given that it's been scientifically demonstrated that masks reduce transmission their being worn should HELP the High Streets not hurt them.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
I don't think people associate masks with a safe environment.
Nor did our politicians who have been waltzing about for four months not wearing masks.
And perhaps you can explain why I should now take the risk of going to a gym or pub or restaurant given that the government thinks going to the supermarket without a mask is unsafe.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
Long enough to destroy High Streets.
Again given that it's been scientifically demonstrated that masks reduce transmission their being worn should HELP the High Streets not hurt them.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
Because lots of people don’t like wearing them and will not bother with the non essential shopping trip if required to do so. It may not materialise, and/or might be outweighed by people who are more likely to visit, but it is naive to assume that the consequences can only be positive. And people don’t all act rationally. Anyway, I predict a lot of famous people falling foul of it with photographers tracing their every step.
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
Eldest has been told all courses Online at Manchester for 3rd year. So will go to live with boyfriend in Scotland. Much cheaper. Win win. Apart from the landlord. And the rest of Longsight.
The irony is (and accepting the fact that the risks for those who are young and healthy are low but not completely non existent) if there was one sector of the economy that should be able to operate pretty much as normal In the face of this virus it is the University sector. Young people largely co-existing in a social bubble with largely low levels of contact with vulnerable groups). If they are not able to bring themselves to accept a reasonable assessed (as opposed to attempted non existent) risk for the good of their students and their local economies then what hope is there for anywhere?
To be fair. The students themselves had precisely zero input in any decision making. Wouldn't be surprised if refunds weren't in order.
By “they” I didn’t mean students, but university authorities.
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
Eldest has been told all courses Online at Manchester for 3rd year. So will go to live with boyfriend in Scotland. Much cheaper. Win win. Apart from the landlord. And the rest of Longsight.
The irony is (and accepting the fact that the risks for those who are young and healthy are low but not completely non existent) if there was one sector of the economy that should be able to operate pretty much as normal In the face of this virus it is the University sector. Young people largely co-existing in a social bubble with largely low levels of contact with vulnerable groups). If they are not able to bring themselves to accept a reasonable assessed (as opposed to attempted non existent) risk for the good of their students and their local economies then what hope is there for anywhere?
To be fair. The students themselves had precisely zero input in any decision making. Wouldn't be surprised if refunds weren't in order.
By “they” I didn’t mean students, but university authorities.
Ah OK. Reading back that was bloody obviously your meaning. Apologies.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
I predict. A large number of complaints to the Police. And very few fines. And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness. And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined. Betcha a fiver.
I think it's Farage's next publicity stunt sorted anyway.
All the virtue signalling will be from the mask wearers.
I happened to be in supermarkets in Edinburgh and Glasgow today and I'd say it was 95%+ take up on masks, probably helped by largish security guards on the doors. I can't really say I was getting a huge virtue signalling vibe, more this is the way it is, let's just get on with it.
Have they found a definitive way that the virus is passed on now then? I was quite taken with the ‘shouting/singing/cheering in large crowds’ theory, but it is obviously much easier to catch than that if we have to wear masks whilst shopping in near silence
If you're in a choir with an infected person, there is a 100 risk unit chance of you getting CV-19. If you are in a shop with an infected person and no-one is wearing a mask, there is a 1 risk unit chance.
However a lot more people go to shops than sing in choirs - probably 1,000 more. Therefore, you have 10x the effect at the population level of requiring masks than of banning choirs.
In general, it seems rather better to allow more people in shops, but have them wearing masks, rather than having people waiting outside in lines due to capacity being constrained.
Have they found a definitive way that the virus is passed on now then? I was quite taken with the ‘shouting/singing/cheering in large crowds’ theory, but it is obviously much easier to catch than that if we have to wear masks whilst shopping in near silence
If you're in a choir with an infected person, there is a 100 risk unit chance of you getting CV-19. If you are in a shop with an infected person and no-one is wearing a mask, there is a 1 risk unit chance.
However a lot more people go to shops than sing in choirs - probably 1,000 more. Therefore, you have 10x the effect at the population level of requiring masks than of banning choirs.
In general, it seems rather better to allow more people in shops, but have them wearing masks, rather than having people waiting outside in lines due to capacity being constrained.
Any indication that the Govt are about to action this as a quid pro quo? That hasn’t been the message so far.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
I predict. A large number of complaints to the Police. And very few fines. And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness. And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined. Betcha a fiver.
I think it's Farage's next publicity stunt sorted anyway.
All the virtue signalling will be from the mask wearers.
I happened to be in supermarkets in Edinburgh and Glasgow today and I'd say it was 95%+ take up on masks, probably helped by largish security guards on the doors. I can't really say I was getting a huge virtue signalling vibe, more this is the way it is, let's just get on with it.
I suspect it was the news of the immediate success of the Scottish policy (reported on R4 this morning) which tipped the government’s hand.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
Long enough to destroy High Streets.
Again given that it's been scientifically demonstrated that masks reduce transmission their being worn should HELP the High Streets not hurt them.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
I don't think people associate masks with a safe environment.
Nor did our politicians who have been waltzing about for four months not wearing masks.
And perhaps you can explain why I should now take the risk of going to a gym or pub or restaurant given that the government thinks going to the supermarket without a mask is unsafe.
You're putting the cart before the horse there. If we were in a safe environment the masks wouldn't be necessary in the first place.
As for the gym I answered this earlier. Shops are more essential and meant to be lower risk, people who choose to go to a higher risk environment do so willingly but people need to go shopping and it makes sense to do what we can to minimise the risk when we can. Plus more people go to the shops, more often, than to gyms etc - plus in shops you're milling around walking around the shop coming into contact potentially with lots of different people whereas when you're sat at a table in a restaurant or are on a treadmill at the gym you're away from other people and not having people walk around you regularly trying to pick something off the shelf near you.
We can see across the Pond what happens when a second wave occurs, that dog is barking over there leading to second lockdowns in some states. I'd rather wear a mask than have another lockdown - which would you prefer as a forced choice?
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
Long enough to destroy High Streets.
Again given that it's been scientifically demonstrated that masks reduce transmission their being worn should HELP the High Streets not hurt them.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
I don't think people associate masks with a safe environment.
Nor did our politicians who have been waltzing about for four months not wearing masks.
And perhaps you can explain why I should now take the risk of going to a gym or pub or restaurant given that the government thinks going to the supermarket without a mask is unsafe.
It brings to mind visions of those hotels and beaches in Tunisia that are safe to go and relax in...because there are guards armed w machine guns posted every 10 yards
Ah, so Eadric (circa February) became Guardian Science Editor.
Worrying prediction, nonetheless.
Turns out old Eadric wasn't so wrong - in anything
He is much missed
*dons black lace shawl, tilts table and expels a little ectoplasm*
I think I can sense his presence.
He is dead but he was right. We should honour him.
I heard he was murdered by an Albanian taxi driver.
Apparently, the Albanian taxi driver, whose son was a professional soccer player in Italy, thought that Eadric was passing his stories off as his own. There was a viscous knife fight, covered up by the authorities, of course, and despite Eadric killing no fewer than 20 illegal Albanian immigrants, sadly, in the end he succumbed.
Re going to supermarkets. Dress up in what looks like a staff uniform and you should be ok. Staff will be exempt from the policy I think. But be prepared though to say “aisle 13” in response to any question from a confused shopper.
Ah, so Eadric (circa February) became Guardian Science Editor.
Worrying prediction, nonetheless.
Turns out old Eadric wasn't so wrong - in anything
He is much missed
*dons black lace shawl, tilts table and expels a little ectoplasm*
I think I can sense his presence.
He is dead but he was right. We should honour him.
I heard he was murdered by an Albanian taxi driver.
Apparently, the Albanian taxi driver, whose son was a professional soccer player in Italy, thought that Eadric was passing his stories off as his own. There was a viscous knife fight, covered up by the authorities, of course, and despite Eadric killing no fewer than 20 illegal Albanian immigrants, sadly, in the end he succumbed.
That's not what an Albanian taxi driver told me - it was a fight between Eadric, an airport thriller writer and several hundred thousand other people. Who all looked only similar. Strangely, when one of them killed another.... they all died.
Anyway, leaving aside the specific question of changing the law, has govt guidance now officially changed (again). Up until today I believe it was to wear masks in confined spaces where social distancing isn’t possible. But in lots of shops social distancing is perfectly possible. So to justify the law change government guidance needs to change, doesn’t it?
Re going to supermarkets. Dress up in what looks like a staff uniform and you should be ok. Staff will be exempt from the policy I think. But be prepared though to say “aisle 13” in response to any question from a confused shopper.
Really? That's madness.
In Santa Monica, a whole bunch of Whole Foods employees got diagnosed with CV-19. One can only imagine how many people got infected.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
Long enough to destroy High Streets.
Again given that it's been scientifically demonstrated that masks reduce transmission their being worn should HELP the High Streets not hurt them.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
I don't think people associate masks with a safe environment.
Nor did our politicians who have been waltzing about for four months not wearing masks.
And perhaps you can explain why I should now take the risk of going to a gym or pub or restaurant given that the government thinks going to the supermarket without a mask is unsafe.
You're putting the cart before the horse there. If we were in a safe environment the masks wouldn't be necessary in the first place.
As for the gym I answered this earlier. Shops are more essential and meant to be lower risk, people who choose to go to a higher risk environment do so willingly but people need to go shopping and it makes sense to do what we can to minimise the risk when we can. Plus more people go to the shops, more often, than to gyms etc - plus in shops you're milling around walking around the shop coming into contact potentially with lots of different people whereas when you're sat at a table in a restaurant or are on a treadmill at the gym you're away from other people and not having people walk around you regularly trying to pick something off the shelf near you.
We can see across the Pond what happens when a second wave occurs, that dog is barking over there leading to second lockdowns in some states. I'd rather wear a mask than have another lockdown - which would you prefer as a forced choice?
I disagree - masks suggest an environment is unsafe so why risk entering it when you can shop online.
And you're not explaining why masks are necessary now when shops are far safer than they were four months ago.
Or why if masks are necessary now politicians were poncing about in photostunts last week without masks.
If you're afraid of another lockdown than you should be condemning the government for providing financial incentives to go to high risk pubs and restaurants before we even know what the effect of them opening are.
Anyway, leaving aside the specific question of changing the law, has govt guidance now officially changed (again). Up until today I believe it was to wear masks in confined spaces where social distancing isn’t possible. But in lots of shops social distancing is perfectly possible. So to justify the law change government guidance needs to change, doesn’t it?
The guidelines won't be incompatible with the law so I don't see why.
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Anyway, leaving aside the specific question of changing the law, has govt guidance now officially changed (again). Up until today I believe it was to wear masks in confined spaces where social distancing isn’t possible. But in lots of shops social distancing is perfectly possible. So to justify the law change government guidance needs to change, doesn’t it?
The guidelines won't be incompatible with the law so I don't see why.
They will be an unusual example of the law being stricter than government guidelines though. Ironic given that for several weeks there was much trouble caused by police trying to enforce guidance that wasn’t law.
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Is that even news? Had that not been planned from the very start of the programme?
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
Long enough to destroy High Streets.
Again given that it's been scientifically demonstrated that masks reduce transmission their being worn should HELP the High Streets not hurt them.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
I don't think people associate masks with a safe environment.
Nor did our politicians who have been waltzing about for four months not wearing masks.
And perhaps you can explain why I should now take the risk of going to a gym or pub or restaurant given that the government thinks going to the supermarket without a mask is unsafe.
You're putting the cart before the horse there. If we were in a safe environment the masks wouldn't be necessary in the first place.
As for the gym I answered this earlier. Shops are more essential and meant to be lower risk, people who choose to go to a higher risk environment do so willingly but people need to go shopping and it makes sense to do what we can to minimise the risk when we can. Plus more people go to the shops, more often, than to gyms etc - plus in shops you're milling around walking around the shop coming into contact potentially with lots of different people whereas when you're sat at a table in a restaurant or are on a treadmill at the gym you're away from other people and not having people walk around you regularly trying to pick something off the shelf near you.
We can see across the Pond what happens when a second wave occurs, that dog is barking over there leading to second lockdowns in some states. I'd rather wear a mask than have another lockdown - which would you prefer as a forced choice?
I disagree - masks suggest an environment is unsafe so why risk entering it when you can shop online.
And you're not explaining why masks are necessary now when shops are far safer than they were four months ago.
Or why if masks are necessary now politicians were poncing about in photostunts last week without masks.
If you're afraid of another lockdown than you should be condemning the government for providing financial incentives to go to high risk pubs and restaurants before we even know what the effect of them opening are.
BTW the USA is still on its first wave.
Maybe it would have been better in hindsight to have months ago, but we can't turn back time. Better late than never. Plus we're trying to get back to a more normal now and have more people out and about now.
Same applies to photos of politicians from previous weeks. Better late than never.
Your logic that because I want to avoid another lockdown means we should extend the original one is a bit self-defeating. I want to avoid lockdown's being necessary. If mask wearing can ensure we keep R below 1 even without a lockdown then lets get back to as much normal as possible and just wear the mask.
As for the USA its on second waves now in many States and is in a second wave nationally too. The figures came down and are now up at record highs.
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Is that even news? Had that not been planned from the very start of the programme?
The US Marine presence - yes.
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US. And the Marines are talking about pooling aircraft - with UK pilots flying US aircraft and visa versa.
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Is that even news? Had that not been planned from the very start of the programme?
The US Marine presence - yes.
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US. And the Marines are talking about pooling aircraft - with UK pilots flying US aircraft and visa versa.
What a fine way to demonstrate sovereignty and independence.
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Is that even news? Had that not been planned from the very start of the programme?
The US Marine presence - yes.
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US. And the Marines are talking about pooling aircraft - with UK pilots flying US aircraft and visa versa.
What a fine way to demonstrate sovereignty and independence.
I would far rather pool sovereignty with the USA than Germany, despite everything. Germany is a good friend and neighbour, and much admired. But America is family.
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US.
It very well might but they won't be entering the NOFORN areas. I was on exchange to a VF squadron for nearly four years (my schedule replacement never showed up) and I never saw a NOFORN briefing or entered a NOFORN area.
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Is that even news? Had that not been planned from the very start of the programme?
The US Marine presence - yes.
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US. And the Marines are talking about pooling aircraft - with UK pilots flying US aircraft and visa versa.
What a fine way to demonstrate sovereignty and independence.
I would far rather pool sovereignty with the USA than Germany, despite everything. Germany is a good friend and neighbour, and much admired. But America is family.
Yes, I'd agree. The country of the Lend Lease and Marshall Plan vs the country of ... well, where do we start?
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Is that even news? Had that not been planned from the very start of the programme?
The US Marine presence - yes.
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US. And the Marines are talking about pooling aircraft - with UK pilots flying US aircraft and visa versa.
What a fine way to demonstrate sovereignty and independence.
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Is that even news? Had that not been planned from the very start of the programme?
The US Marine presence - yes.
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US. And the Marines are talking about pooling aircraft - with UK pilots flying US aircraft and visa versa.
What a fine way to demonstrate sovereignty and independence.
I would far rather pool sovereignty with the USA than Germany, despite everything. Germany is a good friend and neighbour, and much admired. But America is family.
Yes, I'd agree. The country of the Lend Lease and Marshall Plan vs the country of ... well, where do we start?
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
Long enough to destroy High Streets.
Again given that it's been scientifically demonstrated that masks reduce transmission their being worn should HELP the High Streets not hurt them.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
I don't think people associate masks with a safe environment.
Nor did our politicians who have been waltzing about for four months not wearing masks.
And perhaps you can explain why I should now take the risk of going to a gym or pub or restaurant given that the government thinks going to the supermarket without a mask is unsafe.
You're putting the cart before the horse there. If we were in a safe environment the masks wouldn't be necessary in the first place.
As for the gym I answered this earlier. Shops are more essential and meant to be lower risk, people who choose to go to a higher risk environment do so willingly but people need to go shopping and it makes sense to do what we can to minimise the risk when we can. Plus more people go to the shops, more often, than to gyms etc - plus in shops you're milling around walking around the shop coming into contact potentially with lots of different people whereas when you're sat at a table in a restaurant or are on a treadmill at the gym you're away from other people and not having people walk around you regularly trying to pick something off the shelf near you.
We can see across the Pond what happens when a second wave occurs, that dog is barking over there leading to second lockdowns in some states. I'd rather wear a mask than have another lockdown - which would you prefer as a forced choice?
I disagree - masks suggest an environment is unsafe so why risk entering it when you can shop online.
And you're not explaining why masks are necessary now when shops are far safer than they were four months ago.
Or why if masks are necessary now politicians were poncing about in photostunts last week without masks.
If you're afraid of another lockdown than you should be condemning the government for providing financial incentives to go to high risk pubs and restaurants before we even know what the effect of them opening are.
BTW the USA is still on its first wave.
Maybe it would have been better in hindsight to have months ago, but we can't turn back time. Better late than never. Plus we're trying to get back to a more normal now and have more people out and about now.
Same applies to photos of politicians from previous weeks. Better late than never.
Your logic that because I want to avoid another lockdown means we should extend the original one is a bit self-defeating. I want to avoid lockdown's being necessary. If mask wearing can ensure we keep R below 1 even without a lockdown then lets get back to as much normal as possible and just wear the mask.
As for the USA its on second waves now in many States and is in a second wave nationally too. The figures came down and are now up at record highs.
Encouraging people to visit pubs and restaurants before we know what the effect of them reopening is is risky. But a lack of attention to detail sums up much of the government response. In recent weeks things have improved but I suspect that has been more luck than judgement.
You acknowledge that the government hasn't organised things well - now I can forgive them for mistakes made from crap scientific advice in March. What I cannot forgive is the lack of planning in recent weeks if they wanted to make masks mandatory nor the incoherent policy of masks not being deemed necessary in high risk areas nor the inability to admit that their previous advice was wrong.
We will now have to see what the effects are. If there are negative effects they will rightly be blamed on the government and additionally the government will be rightly blamed for its poor planning and leadership throughout the crisis. Likewise I hope other organisations are also held to account for their failings - the PHE/DoH/NHS alphabet soup in particular.
The USA is still on its first wave - its a big country and takes longer for the virus to fully reach all areas just as the virus barely touched some parts of the UK. If New York returns to the infection level of April then you can say there is a second wave.
The initial capability will be 2 squadrons of 12 aircraft, IIRC.
The US Marine Corps want to practically camp on the UK carriers - they want to bring at least a squadron of their own.
Let's get this right. We asked them to make up the air wing for CSG21. And to get them we had to agree to NOFORN areas on QNLZ (ie US nationals only). Take back control.
Is that even news? Had that not been planned from the very start of the programme?
The US Marine presence - yes.
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US. And the Marines are talking about pooling aircraft - with UK pilots flying US aircraft and visa versa.
What a fine way to demonstrate sovereignty and independence.
They are entirely unself aware. Cf the Remain campaign leader who is now doing PR for the CCP in Hong Kong. Astonishing
They're all at it, but from Stephen 'cab for hire' Byers, 19 jobs Osborne, and Saudi Phil centrist politicians do seem to be worse than most. No wonder people head off to Trump and Corbyn.
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
Re: Lend Lease, was sold to US public as a shrewd Yankee barter: strategic bases for us, old war surplus junk for you.
As for Marshall Plan, idea was to save economies of Germany first, then France, followed by rest of continental western Europe. With UK as diplomatic afterthought.
Re: Lend Lease, was sold to US public as a shrewd Yankee barter: strategic bases for us, old war surplus junk for you.
As for Marshall Plan, idea was to save economies of Germany first, then France, followed by rest of continental western Europe. With UK as diplomatic afterthought.
No, that was the Destroyers for Bases deal in 1940. Before Lend Lease in 1941 and very different, but yes still helpful.
And no, the UK and France were very much the organisers of the Marshall Plan. They worked together and provided the Americans with a proposal.
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
Top 3 nations with the highest favourability ratings from Americans
Have they found a definitive way that the virus is passed on now then? I was quite taken with the ‘shouting/singing/cheering in large crowds’ theory, but it is obviously much easier to catch than that if we have to wear masks whilst shopping in near silence
If you're in a choir with an infected person, there is a 100 risk unit chance of you getting CV-19. If you are in a shop with an infected person and no-one is wearing a mask, there is a 1 risk unit chance.
However a lot more people go to shops than sing in choirs - probably 1,000 more. Therefore, you have 10x the effect at the population level of requiring masks than of banning choirs.
In general, it seems rather better to allow more people in shops, but have them wearing masks, rather than having people waiting outside in lines due to capacity being constrained.
Living in central slough havent seen a queue to get in a shop for a month or more, in fact only queue I ever saw was for about 2 weeks outside tesco's and iceland and the first day of opeing for tk Max. Doesnt seem to me like wearing masks will cram more in as they aren't outside waiting
Re: Lend Lease, was sold to US public as a shrewd Yankee barter: strategic bases for us, old war surplus junk for you.
As for Marshall Plan, idea was to save economies of Germany first, then France, followed by rest of continental western Europe. With UK as diplomatic afterthought.
No, that was the Destroyers for Bases deal in 1940. Before Lend Lease in 1941 and very different, but yes still helpful.
And no, the UK and France were very much the organisers of the Marshall Plan. They worked together and provided the Americans with a proposal.
As far as US public opinion then & now, Lend Lease & Destroyers for Bases same ball of wax, done for same purpose - defense of USA.
As for Marshall Plan, you are over-stressing British role . . . in typical Brit fashion. We shell out the dough - youz takes the credit. Just like when my bankrupt 3rd cousin twice removed borrows $100, then gives $5 to Salvation Army & brags about it!
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
Top 3 nations with the highest favourability ratings from Americans
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
Brits generally dont go on about how your family. For some reason our politicians like you most of britain see you as crass overbearing and full of yourselves. There is a good reason that the rhyming slang for someone from america is septic tank
July 14, 2020 - US Senate Republican Runoff Primary
Tomorrow (it's still Monday in God's Country) features yet another electoral treat for PBers: runoff between former US Sen. and former US Attorney Gen. Jeff Sessions and former Auburn U head football Coach Tommy Tuberville, for the right to run as GOP nominee against incumbent Democratic US Sen. Doug Jones.
Race is between a jock & a nerd. With Trumpsky endorsing Coach, because he has insane hatred of Jeff, who is trying to regain senate seat he gave up in order to join Trumpsky's first cabinet and screw up federal judicary for generations to come.
Polls show Coach leading. Seems Jeff's best hope would seem to be disinclination of significant number of Alabama University fans to actually vote vote for an Auburn football legend. Could be a bridge too far - but I doubt it will change outcome.
As LSU grad, happy whomever loses. As Democrat, torn: Sessions win would REALLY piss off Trumpsky, but Tuberville marginally easier for Doug Jones to beat. Not that THAT is likely.
Japanese goverment is ALWAYS shocked & appalled by something US has (or hasn't) done in Okinawa. Part of the Japanese political game, like pretending they are a real democracy.
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
Brits generally dont go on about how your family. For some reason our politicians like you most of britain see you as crass overbearing and full of yourselves. There is a good reason that the rhyming slang for someone from america is septic tank
Exacty what we expect from Brits: over-hyped schmaltz about kinship, special relationship, etc., etc. mixed with heaping helpings of coarse abuse that would make a drunken fishwife choke on her spotted dick.
Whereas we have much less enthusiasm OR revulsion.
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
I said ‘family’, not ‘siblings’
Americans are like a once-annoyingly successful nephew who has now run grotesquely to fat, and is suddenly close to losing his car wash business.
You’re still family, despite it all. And if called upon, we would help. But we would also expect you to diet.
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
I said ‘family’, not ‘siblings’
Americans are like a once-annoyingly successful nephew who has now run grotesquely to fat, and is suddenly close to losing his car wash business.
You’re still family, despite it all. And if called upon, we would help. But we would also expect you to diet.
AND it is that expectation - and attitude - that makes us say "screw that!" and resolve to conquer our difficulties with out OWN strength!
Plus a bit of help from millions who are wretched, poor, yearning to breath free AND do not eat congealed blood & cold toast for breakfast.
How long before they are Hong Kong South? With South China Sea renamed Great Lake of China?
Not long. The Indian Ocean was once a British lake. Like Windermere. Soon it will be Chinese.
America ruled the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean - and the world - until very recently. You are now being brutally supplanted by a more vigorous and less self conscious power. The sense of decline in America is palpable. You are not even prepared to defend the Free Speech in your own Constitution. One of the keystones of liberal American prowess.
I lament your passing. America was a good thing. China and then India are much less promising as hegemons. But all things must die.
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
I said ‘family’, not ‘siblings’
Americans are like a once-annoyingly successful nephew who has now run grotesquely to fat, and is suddenly close to losing his car wash business.
You’re still family, despite it all. And if called upon, we would help. But we would also expect you to diet.
AND it is that expectation - and attitude - that makes us say "screw that!" and resolve to conquer our difficulties with out OWN strength!
Plus a bit of help from millions who are wretched, poor, yearning to breath free AND do not eat congealed blood & cold toast for breakfast.
How long before they are Hong Kong South? With South China Sea renamed Great Lake of China?
Not long. The Indian Ocean was once a British lake. Like Windermere. Soon it will be Chinese.
America ruled the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean - and the world - until very recently. You are now being brutally supplanted by a more vigorous and less self conscious power. The sense of decline in America is palpable. You are not even prepared to defend the Free Speech in your own Constitution. One of the keystones of liberal American prowess.
I lament your passing. America was a good thing. China and then India are much less promising as hegemons. But all things must die.
Trumpsky has been great triumph for Putin AND Xi all right. But Biden - not so much.
Re: Indian Ocean, still have Diego Garcia (thanks to you, cuz) and re: Pacific, still have Guam. AND the 7th fleet, which methinks Uncle Joe would NOT hesitate to sail through the Formosa Strait (like Clinton did) or South China Sea if need be.
Bit more Teddy Roosevelt (speak softly & carry big stick) than Trumpsky's empty brag & bluster.
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
I said ‘family’, not ‘siblings’
Americans are like a once-annoyingly successful nephew who has now run grotesquely to fat, and is suddenly close to losing his car wash business.
You’re still family, despite it all. And if called upon, we would help. But we would also expect you to diet.
AND it is that expectation - and attitude - that makes us say "screw that!" and resolve to conquer our difficulties with out OWN strength!
Plus a bit of help from millions who are wretched, poor, yearning to breath free AND do not eat congealed blood & cold toast for breakfast.
But you are finished. Sorry
NOT by a long shot, sister. AND neither btw are you. Empires are inherently evil - peoples are not. The British (and English, Scot, Welsh, heck even Cornish) people still have much to give the world. As do we Americans - in our typically humble way!
How long before they are Hong Kong South? With South China Sea renamed Great Lake of China?
Not long. The Indian Ocean was once a British lake. Like Windermere. Soon it will be Chinese.
America ruled the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean - and the world - until very recently. You are now being brutally supplanted by a more vigorous and less self conscious power. The sense of decline in America is palpable. You are not even prepared to defend the Free Speech in your own Constitution. One of the keystones of liberal American prowess.
I lament your passing. America was a good thing. China and then India are much less promising as hegemons. But all things must die.
Trumpsky has been great triumph for Putin AND Xi all right. But Biden - not so much.
Re: Indian Ocean, still have Diego Garcia (thanks to you, cuz) and re: Pacific, still have Guam. AND the 7th fleet, which methinks Uncle Joe would NOT hesitate to sail through the Formosa Strait (like Clinton did) or South China Sea if need be.
Bit more Teddy Roosevelt (speak softly & carry big stick) than Trumpsky's empty brag & bluster.
But it’s over. The tents are being folded. The choir closes the hymnal. American supremacy is finished.
The basic data tell the story. In 1945 the USA was supreme. You alone accounted for nearly 50% of global GDP. America ruled, the dollar was mighty. New York City was the world capital.
As late as 2001 America still constituted maybe 30% of the world economy. Lesser, but still predominant. NYC was still arguably where the buzz could be found.
Now? Post Covid? America is anything from 15-20% and all forecasters expect a pretty steep further descent from here on. America is a great power amongst others, and is in obvious relative decline. NYC is once again depopulating.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. The American century is over.
Polls show Coach leading. Seems Jeff's best hope would seem to be disinclination of significant number of Alabama University fans to actually vote vote for an Auburn football legend. Could be a bridge too far - but I doubt it will change outcome.
As LSU grad, happy whomever loses. As Democrat, torn: Sessions win would REALLY piss off Trumpsky, but Tuberville marginally easier for Doug Jones to beat. Not that THAT is likely.
How can we explain the fact that global deaths from Covid-19 peaked on about 17th April but global cases are still rising? It doesn't take 3 months to go from new cases to new deaths AFAIK.
How can we explain the fact that global deaths from Covid-19 peaked on about 17th April but global cases are still rising? It doesn't take 3 months to go from new cases to new deaths AFAIK.
Americans like to hear Brits go on about how we're family & so forth. We like to hear it - but WE do NOT believe it. Or if we do, only in sense that a 3rd cousin twice removed is "family" and if you just won the lottery, please do call! BUT if you are looking for another handout to patch up the leaky roof of your spooky old mansion - not so much.
I said ‘family’, not ‘siblings’
Americans are like a once-annoyingly successful nephew who has now run grotesquely to fat, and is suddenly close to losing his car wash business.
You’re still family, despite it all. And if called upon, we would help. But we would also expect you to diet.
AND it is that expectation - and attitude - that makes us say "screw that!" and resolve to conquer our difficulties with out OWN strength!
Plus a bit of help from millions who are wretched, poor, yearning to breath free AND do not eat congealed blood & cold toast for breakfast.
But you are finished. Sorry
'heck even Cornish"
Oy!!! There'e more than one Cornishman/lady on this site ...
They should have made masks compulsory from the day we locked down. They've done it too late (although they're right to make it compulsory now - and I welcome it despite all the flip flopping) and they will pay the consequences for being so utterly negligent.
Every passing day, this Government proves it is utterly incapable of actually governing. It is Government by opinion poll. It follows opinion, it does not make it.
What an utter farce.
The advice then was that face masks were not effective - even the WHO still prevaricates. The evidence since then has changed. You are simply using hindsight to support your own prejudices. In addition the supply of face masks was simply not there - here in Spain I waited 2 months before the local authority gave out 2 per household - and they were disposable. The position was much the same throughout Europe.
Any predictions on how long the facemask rule will be in place for?
Long enough to destroy High Streets.
Again given that it's been scientifically demonstrated that masks reduce transmission their being worn should HELP the High Streets not hurt them.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
I don't think people associate masks with a safe environment.
Nor did our politicians who have been waltzing about for four months not wearing masks.
And perhaps you can explain why I should now take the risk of going to a gym or pub or restaurant given that the government thinks going to the supermarket without a mask is unsafe.
If you are concerned for your health you should steer clear of gymnasiums and pubs or crowded restaurants. You really shouldn't need any government to advise you on that if you have any sort of brain.
How can we explain the fact that global deaths from Covid-19 peaked on about 17th April but global cases are still rising? It doesn't take 3 months to go from new cases to new deaths AFAIK.
Re: Lend Lease, was sold to US public as a shrewd Yankee barter: strategic bases for us, old war surplus junk for you.
As for Marshall Plan, idea was to save economies of Germany first, then France, followed by rest of continental western Europe. With UK as diplomatic afterthought.
The fact we wasted the money stroking the ego of Aneurin Bevan rather than using it to build houses or factories, or upgrade transport networks, is a different problem.
They should have made masks compulsory from the day we locked down. They've done it too late (although they're right to make it compulsory now - and I welcome it despite all the flip flopping) and they will pay the consequences for being so utterly negligent.
Every passing day, this Government proves it is utterly incapable of actually governing. It is Government by opinion poll. It follows opinion, it does not make it.
What an utter farce.
The advice then was that face masks were not effective - even the WHO still prevaricates. The evidence since then has changed. You are simply using hindsight to support your own prejudices. In addition the supply of face masks was simply not there - here in Spain I waited 2 months before the local authority gave out 2 per household - and they were disposable. The position was much the same throughout Europe.
It would have been relatively easy for HMG to procure masks if the political will had been there. As an aside, one thing I have seen in the last few days is people wearing the clear perspex type of mask, more of a shield really, including teachers.
They should have made masks compulsory from the day we locked down. They've done it too late (although they're right to make it compulsory now - and I welcome it despite all the flip flopping) and they will pay the consequences for being so utterly negligent.
Every passing day, this Government proves it is utterly incapable of actually governing. It is Government by opinion poll. It follows opinion, it does not make it.
What an utter farce.
The advice then was that face masks were not effective - even the WHO still prevaricates. The evidence since then has changed. You are simply using hindsight to support your own prejudices. In addition the supply of face masks was simply not there - here in Spain I waited 2 months before the local authority gave out 2 per household - and they were disposable. The position was much the same throughout Europe.
It would have been relatively easy for HMG to procure masks if the political will had been there. As an aside, one thing I have seen in the last few days is people wearing the clear perspex type of mask, more of a shield really, including teachers.
It was so easy that nowhere in Europe were masks widely available at the time in question and the scientific view was that they gave virtually no protection. Any government which had made them compulsory then would have had people like you howling with derision. The perspex shields are cute but less effective than masks.
They should have made masks compulsory from the day we locked down. They've done it too late (although they're right to make it compulsory now - and I welcome it despite all the flip flopping) and they will pay the consequences for being so utterly negligent.
Every passing day, this Government proves it is utterly incapable of actually governing. It is Government by opinion poll. It follows opinion, it does not make it.
What an utter farce.
The advice then was that face masks were not effective - even the WHO still prevaricates. The evidence since then has changed. You are simply using hindsight to support your own prejudices. In addition the supply of face masks was simply not there - here in Spain I waited 2 months before the local authority gave out 2 per household - and they were disposable. The position was much the same throughout Europe.
It would have been relatively easy for HMG to procure masks if the political will had been there. As an aside, one thing I have seen in the last few days is people wearing the clear perspex type of mask, more of a shield really, including teachers.
It was so easy that nowhere in Europe were masks widely available at the time in question and the scientific view was that they gave virtually no protection. Any government which had made them compulsory then would have had people like you howling with derision. The perspex shields are cute but less effective than masks.
Masks are not high tech items, and can be easily made. Early on in this crisis, pb called for the government to appoint a PPE tsar, using the then-popular wartime analogy of Lord Beaverbrook; Lord Deighton was appointed in April. Whether masks are (or were then) thought to be of much use is a separate question; now there is more evidence that the virus spreads through airborne droplets rather than on surfaces. My point is simply that, as stated, if the government had wanted to make masks compulsory, it would have been relatively straightforward to arrange their supply.
Comments
Much cheaper.
Win win. Apart from the landlord. And the rest of Longsight.
Does that mean I won @Dura_Ace Deadpool then?
Ditto our politicians.
And a number of "free thinking plain speaking" types using social media to virtue signal their masklessness.
And a number of our milquetoast friends trying to get them fined.
Betcha a fiver.
Why do you expect hurt given we know for a fact that masks reduce transmission considerably in indoor settings like shops making them safer to visit?
When it comes to Farage it's not stunt it's spelt see you next Tuesday.
Like good manners. Saying please and thank you is a virtue too, do you spit at people who do that?
Nor did our politicians who have been waltzing about for four months not wearing masks.
And perhaps you can explain why I should now take the risk of going to a gym or pub or restaurant given that the government thinks going to the supermarket without a mask is unsafe.
Apologies.
However a lot more people go to shops than sing in choirs - probably 1,000 more. Therefore, you have 10x the effect at the population level of requiring masks than of banning choirs.
In general, it seems rather better to allow more people in shops, but have them wearing masks, rather than having people waiting outside in lines due to capacity being constrained.
Jonny McFadden, who runs the Star Inn in St Just, Cornwall, said there was limited space in his bar which only served drinks and no food.
He described the barrier as "just a normal electric fence that you would find in a field".
Asked if it was switched on, Mr McFadden said: "Come and find out - there is a fear factor and it works.""
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-53389977
As for the gym I answered this earlier. Shops are more essential and meant to be lower risk, people who choose to go to a higher risk environment do so willingly but people need to go shopping and it makes sense to do what we can to minimise the risk when we can. Plus more people go to the shops, more often, than to gyms etc - plus in shops you're milling around walking around the shop coming into contact potentially with lots of different people whereas when you're sat at a table in a restaurant or are on a treadmill at the gym you're away from other people and not having people walk around you regularly trying to pick something off the shelf near you.
We can see across the Pond what happens when a second wave occurs, that dog is barking over there leading to second lockdowns in some states. I'd rather wear a mask than have another lockdown - which would you prefer as a forced choice?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilson_(short_story)
In Santa Monica, a whole bunch of Whole Foods employees got diagnosed with CV-19. One can only imagine how many people got infected.
And you're not explaining why masks are necessary now when shops are far safer than they were four months ago.
Or why if masks are necessary now politicians were poncing about in photostunts last week without masks.
If you're afraid of another lockdown than you should be condemning the government for providing financial incentives to go to high risk pubs and restaurants before we even know what the effect of them opening are.
BTW the USA is still on its first wave.
Same applies to photos of politicians from previous weeks. Better late than never.
Your logic that because I want to avoid another lockdown means we should extend the original one is a bit self-defeating. I want to avoid lockdown's being necessary. If mask wearing can ensure we keep R below 1 even without a lockdown then lets get back to as much normal as possible and just wear the mask.
As for the USA its on second waves now in many States and is in a second wave nationally too. The figures came down and are now up at record highs.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/philip-hammond-becomes-saudi-advisor/
As to the NOFORN - the Marine squadron will very likely contain UK pilots on secondment to the US. And the Marines are talking about pooling aircraft - with UK pilots flying US aircraft and visa versa.
You acknowledge that the government hasn't organised things well - now I can forgive them for mistakes made from crap scientific advice in March. What I cannot forgive is the lack of planning in recent weeks if they wanted to make masks mandatory nor the incoherent policy of masks not being deemed necessary in high risk areas nor the inability to admit that their previous advice was wrong.
We will now have to see what the effects are. If there are negative effects they will rightly be blamed on the government and additionally the government will be rightly blamed for its poor planning and leadership throughout the crisis. Likewise I hope other organisations are also held to account for their failings - the PHE/DoH/NHS alphabet soup in particular.
The USA is still on its first wave - its a big country and takes longer for the virus to fully reach all areas just as the virus barely touched some parts of the UK. If New York returns to the infection level of April then you can say there is a second wave.
As for Marshall Plan, idea was to save economies of Germany first, then France, followed by rest of continental western Europe. With UK as diplomatic afterthought.
And no, the UK and France were very much the organisers of the Marshall Plan. They worked together and provided the Americans with a proposal.
1. Canada.
2. Great Britain
3. Japan
https://news.gallup.com/poll/228293/americans-canada-north-korea-least.aspx
As for Marshall Plan, you are over-stressing British role . . . in typical Brit fashion. We shell out the dough - youz takes the credit. Just like when my bankrupt 3rd cousin twice removed borrows $100, then gives $5 to Salvation Army & brags about it!
Tomorrow (it's still Monday in God's Country) features yet another electoral treat for PBers: runoff between former US Sen. and former US Attorney Gen. Jeff Sessions and former Auburn U head football Coach Tommy Tuberville, for the right to run as GOP nominee against incumbent Democratic US Sen. Doug Jones.
Race is between a jock & a nerd. With Trumpsky endorsing Coach, because he has insane hatred of Jeff, who is trying to regain senate seat he gave up in order to join Trumpsky's first cabinet and screw up federal judicary for generations to come.
Polls show Coach leading. Seems Jeff's best hope would seem to be disinclination of significant number of Alabama University fans to actually vote vote for an Auburn football legend. Could be a bridge too far - but I doubt it will change outcome.
As LSU grad, happy whomever loses. As Democrat, torn: Sessions win would REALLY piss off Trumpsky, but Tuberville marginally easier for Doug Jones to beat. Not that THAT is likely.
Whereas we have much less enthusiasm OR revulsion.
Americans are like a once-annoyingly successful nephew who has now run grotesquely to fat, and is suddenly close to losing his car wash business.
You’re still family, despite it all. And if called upon, we would help. But we would also expect you to diet.
Plus a bit of help from millions who are wretched, poor, yearning to breath free AND do not eat congealed blood & cold toast for breakfast.
America ruled the Indian Ocean and the Pacific Ocean - and the world - until very recently. You are now being brutally supplanted by a more vigorous and less self conscious power. The sense of decline in America is palpable. You are not even prepared to defend the Free Speech in your own Constitution. One of the keystones of liberal American prowess.
I lament your passing. America was a good thing. China and then India are much less promising as hegemons. But all things must die.
Re: Indian Ocean, still have Diego Garcia (thanks to you, cuz) and re: Pacific, still have Guam. AND the 7th fleet, which methinks Uncle Joe would NOT hesitate to sail through the Formosa Strait (like Clinton did) or South China Sea if need be.
Bit more Teddy Roosevelt (speak softly & carry big stick) than Trumpsky's empty brag & bluster.
The basic data tell the story. In 1945 the USA was supreme. You alone accounted for nearly 50% of global GDP. America ruled, the dollar was mighty. New York City was the world capital.
As late as 2001 America still constituted maybe 30% of the world economy. Lesser, but still predominant. NYC was still arguably where the buzz could be found.
Now? Post Covid? America is anything from 15-20% and all forecasters expect a pretty steep further descent from here on. America is a great power amongst others, and is in obvious relative decline. NYC is once again depopulating.
Trump is a symptom, not a cause. The American century is over.
See graphs on this page:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
(Plus the fact we're better at treatment helps too.)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml
The fact we wasted the money stroking the ego of Aneurin Bevan rather than using it to build houses or factories, or upgrade transport networks, is a different problem.
Mr. JohnL, probably a particularly good idea for some groups, especially teachers.
At the first race, Toto Wolff had the perspex shield/mask. Shifted to the more conventional ninja style mask for Styria, though.