The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
"If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library." Frank Zappa
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
What else can your typical 18 year old do, it’s not like there are many jobs around.
So yes it ain’t going to be fun but it’s better to spend a recession at Uni rather than doing nothing and sitting on the dole..
If you've lost your job it's incredibly tough out there, especially for younger people I talk to. Really wouldn't wish my worst enemy to lose their job in this climate.
Even just counting £9bn (and rapidly rising) based upon dubiously knocking off money that was spent in this country despite it not being something we'd voted to spend as a priority of ours still dwarves by an order of £2bn the alleged £7bn cost of Brexit - if you can believe that figure.
Is it worth paying a £9bn fee to avoid £7bn in fees?
Come on, you're brighter than this Philip. The £7bn is not the cost of Brexit, it's just one cost. It'll be dwarfed by cost of lost trade with the EU.
We were a successful trading nation before we joined the EU and will be after we have left
It will be different and huge changes are on the way that may well confound all the naysayers over the years to come
No, we were an unsuccessful trading nation, beset by recurring balance of payments crises and falling behind the continental economies. That is why we joined the EEC/EU. If you are referring to the nineteenth century, I think you may be forgetting that we no longer have a vast empire to pillage and force to trade with us on terms favourable to us. As I recall you didn't even vote for Brexit, so I don't know why you are trying to dress up billions of pounds of pointless red tape and needless impediments to trade with our neighbours as anything other than a ludicrous step backwards. The Tories' reputation as the party of business will never survive this, and nor should it.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
I think it is more that what the government is thinking and saying today won’t necessarily be what they are thinking and saying tomorrow.
No, on masks Boris has been fairly consistent since he wore that one publicly. Gove has been off message.
Frankly that one particular user has been allowed to act like he's a moderator and to tell others what to do as rudely as he wants with no consequence for quite a while and I am fed up with it. And yet when they're called out they go on the defensive like the weak little prat they are. I call arrogant twats what they are and they are one.
Nobody has a right to tell anyone here what to do, end of story. I won't tell you what to do, you don't tell me what to do.
It is IMPERATIVE that you wear a face mask. For the Public Good. From a week on Friday.
Seriously, does anyone want to explain why we need to wear them a week on Friday onwards but not tomorrow?
They really are fucking clueless.
No, "fucking clueless" was how they were a week or two ago. Now they have surpassed themselves and are now "world class fucking clueless".
Maybe they think it has been made an olympic sport?
Does that include wee Nicola who also delayed introduction by the same amount of time after announcing the same policy?
The delay is so people can go and buy them.
If you actually take your mask buying seriously and don’t just search for the cheapest thing you can find, it’s actually quite tricky I’ve found to know what to buy. And a lot of the “better” models are still not widely available. And not cheap.
I've been suffering increasing anxiety this last week or so. Working 3 days a week and furlough the other two makes for am I working (a 5 day week compressed into 3) or can sit on my arse? Brain doesn't know if I am coming or going frankly.
It's really not being helped by these cockwombles. A week on Friday I can go the gym and work myself into a sweaty mess indoors without a mask. Because it's safe. But cannot go indoors into a shop without a mask. Because it isn't safe.
Use your common sense? Come on. Some loon mentioned 4 years to an election - do you think I care about that? This is about our lives and sanity. Or lack of.
Its entirely logical Rochdale.
If you're going to the shops you're going to a busy indoor and essential shop that many vulnerable people may also need to go to. A mask helps protect others from the virus.
If you're going to the gym you're deliberately choosing to go to a non-essential building you are fully aware is a sweaty environment that is higher risk.
Masks in shops helps us get back to normal faster so that you can get back to 5 day weeks.
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
"making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs."
I think I may have done the wrong course if that is what is supposed to happen.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
No, it's not just Gove (and even if it were, he's not exactly some anonymous junior). If this were a serious government contemplating making masks compulsory, then for the last couple of weeks they'd have been sending out a consistent message that masks were highly recommended. Instead Boris has only very recently been seen in a mask, and Rishi Sunak wasn't wearing one for his Wagamama stunt just last Thursday.
They are an utter shambles, a case study in how not to govern.
It is IMPERATIVE that you wear a face mask. For the Public Good. From a week on Friday.
Seriously, does anyone want to explain why we need to wear them a week on Friday onwards but not tomorrow?
They really are fucking clueless.
Because if you're going to change the law at penalty of fines you need time to allow people to both get the information so that they know the law and give them time if need be to order masks online and get them delivered.
Will you just have to wear one, or can you be fined for not wearing it properly? And given that a scarf is allowed, what is the approved way to wear a scarf?
I suspect the delay in implementation is to sort out those details.
FWIW, scarves are pretty ineffective; multilayer cotton masks of surgical masks quite good.
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
What else can your typical 18 year old do, it’s not like there are many jobs around.
So yes it ain’t going to be fun but it’s better to spend a recession at Uni rather than doing nothing and sitting on the dole..
I think the value for money is probably to be found in the latter option.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
The failure on masks is simply inexcusable. That's all there is to it.
This is a calamitous screw-up across the board, and the scientists are as much to blame as the politicians. Jonathan van Tam was boasting about his mask knowledge back in early March ("my friend in Hong Kong says they are pointless"). The Deputy CMO Jenny Harries said "masks are actively useless" many weeks ago.
She did not understand the concept of masks as a barrier to asymptomatic transmission to others, and she thought masks actually "trap the virus" near your mouth or nose or whatever. TThis is like a surgeon bleeding you with leeches for the canker. I knew she was utterly wrong back then and I have a decent Chemistry GCSE.
Sack her. Sack her now.
"Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in."
I've been suffering increasing anxiety this last week or so. Working 3 days a week and furlough the other two makes for am I working (a 5 day week compressed into 3) or can sit on my arse? Brain doesn't know if I am coming or going frankly.
It's really not being helped by these cockwombles. A week on Friday I can go the gym and work myself into a sweaty mess indoors without a mask. Because it's safe. But cannot go indoors into a shop without a mask. Because it isn't safe.
Use your common sense? Come on. Some loon mentioned 4 years to an election - do you think I care about that? This is about our lives and sanity. Or lack of.
I'd recommend disconnecting from the world. I did it while I was furloughed, especially towards the end. Your arguments are illogical and I think you probably need to take a break and get some perspective.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
I think it is more that what the government is thinking and saying today won’t necessarily be what they are thinking and saying tomorrow.
No, on masks Boris has been fairly consistent since he wore that one publicly. Gove has been off message.
If ever a time for collective cabinet responsibility/messaging was needed it is now. Maybe Gove just wants to think he ever mattered.
Even just counting £9bn (and rapidly rising) based upon dubiously knocking off money that was spent in this country despite it not being something we'd voted to spend as a priority of ours still dwarves by an order of £2bn the alleged £7bn cost of Brexit - if you can believe that figure.
Is it worth paying a £9bn fee to avoid £7bn in fees?
Come on, you're brighter than this Philip. The £7bn is not the cost of Brexit, it's just one cost. It'll be dwarfed by cost of lost trade with the EU.
We were a successful trading nation before we joined the EU and will be after we have left
It will be different and huge changes are on the way that may well confound all the naysayers over the years to come
No, we were an unsuccessful trading nation, beset by recurring balance of payments crises and falling behind the continental economies. That is why we joined the EEC/EU. If you are referring to the nineteenth century, I think you may be forgetting that we no longer have a vast empire to pillage and force to trade with us on terms favourable to us. As I recall you didn't even vote for Brexit, so I don't know why you are trying to dress up billions of pounds of pointless red tape and needless impediments to trade with our neighbours as anything other than a ludicrous step backwards. The Tories' reputation as the party of business will never survive this, and nor should it.
You may be surprised
I suspect I won't be. January is going to be a clusterf@@k of epic proportions
I've been suffering increasing anxiety this last week or so. Working 3 days a week and furlough the other two makes for am I working (a 5 day week compressed into 3) or can sit on my arse? Brain doesn't know if I am coming or going frankly.
It's really not being helped by these cockwombles. A week on Friday I can go the gym and work myself into a sweaty mess indoors without a mask. Because it's safe. But cannot go indoors into a shop without a mask. Because it isn't safe.
Use your common sense? Come on. Some loon mentioned 4 years to an election - do you think I care about that? This is about our lives and sanity. Or lack of.
Its entirely logical Rochdale.
If you're going to the shops you're going to a busy indoor and essential shop that many vulnerable people may also need to go to. A mask helps protect others from the virus.
If you're going to the gym you're deliberately choosing to go to a non-essential building you are fully aware is a sweaty environment that is higher risk.
Masks in shops helps us get back to normal faster so that you can get back to 5 day weeks.
While they’ve got Lansley on Newsnight, can they ask him about his crap NHS reforms, which are partially responsible for our social care and public health problems ?
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
I think it is more that what the government is thinking and saying today won’t necessarily be what they are thinking and saying tomorrow.
No, on masks Boris has been fairly consistent since he wore that one publicly. Gove has been off message.
Holding the same view on a Monday that you held the previous Friday is the new definition of “consistent” now, is it?
I've been suffering increasing anxiety this last week or so. Working 3 days a week and furlough the other two makes for am I working (a 5 day week compressed into 3) or can sit on my arse? Brain doesn't know if I am coming or going frankly.
It's really not being helped by these cockwombles. A week on Friday I can go the gym and work myself into a sweaty mess indoors without a mask. Because it's safe. But cannot go indoors into a shop without a mask. Because it isn't safe.
Use your common sense? Come on. Some loon mentioned 4 years to an election - do you think I care about that? This is about our lives and sanity. Or lack of.
Its entirely logical Rochdale.
If you're going to the shops you're going to a busy indoor and essential shop that many vulnerable people may also need to go to. A mask helps protect others from the virus.
If you're going to the gym you're deliberately choosing to go to a non-essential building you are fully aware is a sweaty environment that is higher risk.
Masks in shops helps us get back to normal faster so that you can get back to 5 day weeks.
Oh God make it stop ! The UK is beginning to look like Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard .
Apparently in between Sending a Stern Message to the Dastardly Chinese the aircraft carrier will be signing trade deals, a la Britannia. With the same Chinese? I suppose if you squint, an aircraft carrier could be confused for a Royal Yacht. A bit big but it has the royal sounding name and plenty of space for the deal-inducing cocktail parties. Particularly if you don't have to share the deck with any aircraft.
It is IMPERATIVE that you wear a face mask. For the Public Good. From a week on Friday.
Seriously, does anyone want to explain why we need to wear them a week on Friday onwards but not tomorrow?
They really are fucking clueless.
Because if you're going to change the law at penalty of fines you need time to allow people to both get the information so that they know the law and give them time if need be to order masks online and get them delivered.
Will you just have to wear one, or can you be fined for not wearing it properly? And given that a scarf is allowed, what is the approved way to wear a scarf?
I suspect the delay in implementation is to sort out those details.
FWIW, scarves are pretty ineffective; multilayer cotton masks of surgical masks quite good.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I think it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
It’s certainly very damaging to getting a consistent message out.
I've been suffering increasing anxiety this last week or so. Working 3 days a week and furlough the other two makes for am I working (a 5 day week compressed into 3) or can sit on my arse? Brain doesn't know if I am coming or going frankly.
It's really not being helped by these cockwombles. A week on Friday I can go the gym and work myself into a sweaty mess indoors without a mask. Because it's safe. But cannot go indoors into a shop without a mask. Because it isn't safe.
Use your common sense? Come on. Some loon mentioned 4 years to an election - do you think I care about that? This is about our lives and sanity. Or lack of.
Its entirely logical Rochdale.
If you're going to the shops you're going to a busy indoor and essential shop that many vulnerable people may also need to go to. A mask helps protect others from the virus.
If you're going to the gym you're deliberately choosing to go to a non-essential building you are fully aware is a sweaty environment that is higher risk.
Masks in shops helps us get back to normal faster so that you can get back to 5 day weeks.
What if you’re going to a non essential shop?
Even non-essential shops can be essential after a while. Clothes aren't essential on a day to day basis to buy but after a few months they certainly can be - especially if you have little ones.
Furthermore same principle still applies. Going into shops are supposed to be lower risk than going into gyms and pubs. So it makes sense to protect them with masks whereas expecting someone on a treadmill to wear a gym to wear a mask isn't likely to work.
Earlier I said it would be 24 hours before the govt gave in, u-turned, and ordered face masks to be mandatory. Turns out it was just two or three hours.
While they’ve got Lansley on Newsnight, can they ask him about his crap NHS reforms, which are partially responsible for our social care and public health problems ?
Why are Lansley and Hunt always being interviewed when they don't hold any important positions?
If Trump pulls out of the race then Pence probably won't stand for president (even if he becomes president before election day), for the simple reason that Pence's role as head of the coronavirus task force means that his handling of the coronavirus crisis is Trump's handling of it. Not enough voters are stupid enough to be led by a little bit of differential mask choreography into viewing Pence as the guy who defeated or who will defeat the virus despite Trump not having a clue. If Trump falls whether by flouncing or otherwise he will fall hard.
That said, it was interesting that in the video in which they pre-emptively criticised Republican leaders such as Ted Cruz whom they predicted would try to distance themselves from Trump regardless of having supported him to the hilt, the Lincoln Project said not a word about Pence. Maybe they felt they didn't have to.
While they’ve got Lansley on Newsnight, can they ask him about his crap NHS reforms, which are partially responsible for our social care and public health problems ?
Why are Lansley and Hunt always being interviewed when they don't hold any important positions?
Hunt to be far is Chair of the Health Select Committee.
While they’ve got Lansley on Newsnight, can they ask him about his crap NHS reforms, which are partially responsible for our social care and public health problems ?
Why are Lansley and Hunt always being interviewed when they don't hold any important positions?
Hunt is the health committee chair, it's of some importance.
While they’ve got Lansley on Newsnight, can they ask him about his crap NHS reforms, which are partially responsible for our social care and public health problems ?
Why are Lansley and Hunt always being interviewed when they don't hold any important positions?
Because they talk sense? A novel suggestion, I admit.
Will Nicola be blamed for front running the government again?
I think it speaks to the fundamental interconnectedness of the UK - if there's a popular policy in Scotland (as masks seem to be), the UK Government cannot resist implementing it in England. Likewise, if there's a popular policy in England, the Scottish Government has to do a version in Scotland (stamp duty). Neither Government can afford to be unpopular, for similar reasons.
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
What else can your typical 18 year old do, it’s not like there are many jobs around.
So yes it ain’t going to be fun but it’s better to spend a recession at Uni rather than doing nothing and sitting on the dole..
I think the value for money is probably to be found in the latter option.
That depends on what you want to do. If you want to do Software engineering I will probably give you a job and enough none degree qualifications that it won't matter. If you want to become a film composer as Miss eek does then the conservatoire she is hopefully off to its the best bet.
The “university experience” is going to be a barrel of laughs for the next couple of years.
Quite.
Why would you go to Uni now, if it just meant endless Zoom-lectures and staying at home to wank, sorry, study webinars and complete online blah blah
University is all about enjoying the new social life, stay up all night drinking with smart new people, making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs.
No one will take on £50-100k of debt to do internet quizzes.
The western university business model is facing a world of pain.
"making lifelong new friends from around the world, who have great tits/abs."
I think I may have done the wrong course if that is what is supposed to happen.
None of these guys with great abs were hanging around my Midlands university in the early 90s. Priti Patel was, but I couldn't comment on her rack.
If you've lost your job it's incredibly tough out there, especially for younger people I talk to. Really wouldn't wish my worst enemy to lose their job in this climate.
End of this month for some of my colleagues. Currently going through the pantomime of 'consultation'.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
I think it is more that what the government is thinking and saying today won’t necessarily be what they are thinking and saying tomorrow.
No, on masks Boris has been fairly consistent since he wore that one publicly. Gove has been off message.
Holding the same view on a Monday that you held the previous Friday is the new definition of “consistent” now, is it?
The government have been clear for a while now that masks are good. Just because something is good doesn't mean the law should be changed as a first resort.
If you've lost your job it's incredibly tough out there, especially for younger people I talk to. Really wouldn't wish my worst enemy to lose their job in this climate.
Without the furlough we would be at Great Depression levels of unemployment
A total and utter shitshow. Thanks Cameron and Osborne.
But apparently defence procurement doesn't need sorting out and doing so is 'an attack on the army'.
Wait - are we actually intending to start a war?
Unless we intend to win it by the Chinese laughing to death at our empty carrier, no.
It would have been far more dignified to give it to the EU if there's something in the deal they're proving stubborn on. Let them wave their willy at the Chinese instead.
While they’ve got Lansley on Newsnight, can they ask him about his crap NHS reforms, which are partially responsible for our social care and public health problems ?
Why are Lansley and Hunt always being interviewed when they don't hold any important positions?
Because Cummings and Gove are planning to follow up Lansley's half-arsed reforms with their own? At least Lansley can talk with some authority on the subject.
While they’ve got Lansley on Newsnight, can they ask him about his crap NHS reforms, which are partially responsible for our social care and public health problems ?
Why are Lansley and Hunt always being interviewed when they don't hold any important positions?
Isn't Newsnight one of the programmes that the government isn't sending ministers onto? It's hard to keep track.
Even just counting £9bn (and rapidly rising) based upon dubiously knocking off money that was spent in this country despite it not being something we'd voted to spend as a priority of ours still dwarves by an order of £2bn the alleged £7bn cost of Brexit - if you can believe that figure.
Is it worth paying a £9bn fee to avoid £7bn in fees?
Come on, you're brighter than this Philip. The £7bn is not the cost of Brexit, it's just one cost. It'll be dwarfed by cost of lost trade with the EU.
We were a successful trading nation before we joined the EU and will be after we have left
It will be different and huge changes are on the way that may well confound all the naysayers over the years to come
No, we were an unsuccessful trading nation, beset by recurring balance of payments crises and falling behind the continental economies. That is why we joined the EEC/EU. If you are referring to the nineteenth century, I think you may be forgetting that we no longer have a vast empire to pillage and force to trade with us on terms favourable to us. As I recall you didn't even vote for Brexit, so I don't know why you are trying to dress up billions of pounds of pointless red tape and needless impediments to trade with our neighbours as anything other than a ludicrous step backwards. The Tories' reputation as the party of business will never survive this, and nor should it.
You may be surprised
You are right, it could turn out even worse than I expect.
Earlier I said it would be 24 hours before the govt gave in, u-turned, and ordered face masks to be mandatory. Turns out it was just two or three hours.
Yes I have laid Pence for running mate. I think there is more chance of Trump dumping him than than the odds imply. I think there's about a 30% chance of it happening.
I’d be amazed if they’re anything near that. Ditching Pence this late would be a real sign of panic, and I don’t see much upside in any possible replacements.
If you've lost your job it's incredibly tough out there, especially for younger people I talk to. Really wouldn't wish my worst enemy to lose their job in this climate.
End of this month for some of my colleagues. Currently going through the pantomime of 'consultation'.
Pantomime is worried that its best days are behind it. Circus is walking a financial tightrope with its head in the lion’s mouth.
If you've lost your job it's incredibly tough out there, especially for younger people I talk to. Really wouldn't wish my worst enemy to lose their job in this climate.
Without the furlough we would be at Great Depression levels of unemployment
On masks it's either a public health requirement or it isn't. Either we need to mask up indoors whilst mixing with people or we don't. The absurd inconsistencies - and some on here can do the usual defence if they want - and "use common sense" do not compute. Walking round Wilcos to buy paint is dangerous so wear a mask - your breathing mixes with other people breathing. But in a pub? Naah mate get some lager down your neck and don't forget to go back to the office and buy the most expensive lunch Starbucks have to offer.
As for a week and a half to get the legislation in place, come on. You must wear a mask. Now. Many people have one. Others can be sold one by the shops who all have them. Or here's how to make one from a sock in 30 seconds. Done.
Earlier I said it would be 24 hours before the govt gave in, u-turned, and ordered face masks to be mandatory. Turns out it was just two or three hours.
Got to give them credit for getting quicker...
Wonder how confident they are about the supply chains.
Earlier I said it would be 24 hours before the govt gave in, u-turned, and ordered face masks to be mandatory. Turns out it was just two or three hours.
If you've lost your job it's incredibly tough out there, especially for younger people I talk to. Really wouldn't wish my worst enemy to lose their job in this climate.
Without the furlough we would be at Great Depression levels of unemployment
The furlough ends in three months.
Yes and by then lockdown will be over and mass testing and facemasks established
Anyone fancy a sweepstake on how long £100 for not wearing a mask will be on the statute books? Might it be one of those quaint anomalies which still exists in several decades time (obviously with the value long since diminished by inflation)?
Even just counting £9bn (and rapidly rising) based upon dubiously knocking off money that was spent in this country despite it not being something we'd voted to spend as a priority of ours still dwarves by an order of £2bn the alleged £7bn cost of Brexit - if you can believe that figure.
Is it worth paying a £9bn fee to avoid £7bn in fees?
Come on, you're brighter than this Philip. The £7bn is not the cost of Brexit, it's just one cost. It'll be dwarfed by cost of lost trade with the EU.
We were a successful trading nation before we joined the EU and will be after we have left
It will be different and huge changes are on the way that may well confound all the naysayers over the years to come
No, we were an unsuccessful trading nation, beset by recurring balance of payments crises and falling behind the continental economies. That is why we joined the EEC/EU. If you are referring to the nineteenth century, I think you may be forgetting that we no longer have a vast empire to pillage and force to trade with us on terms favourable to us. As I recall you didn't even vote for Brexit, so I don't know why you are trying to dress up billions of pounds of pointless red tape and needless impediments to trade with our neighbours as anything other than a ludicrous step backwards. The Tories' reputation as the party of business will never survive this, and nor should it.
You may be surprised
You are right, it could turn out even worse than I expect.
It's possible that we're in for a nice surprise. Anything can happen at backgammon and all that.
But yeah. There are lots of mechanisms that point to it ending badly, and few if any that point to it ending well. Still, don't have nightmares, everyone.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
No, it's not just Gove (and even if it were, he's not exactly some anonymous junior). If this were a serious government contemplating making masks compulsory, then for the last couple of weeks they'd have been sending out a consistent message that masks were highly recommended. Instead Boris has only very recently been seen in a mask, and Rishi Sunak wasn't wearing one for his Wagamama stunt just last Thursday.
They are an utter shambles, a case study in how not to govern.
1) The sheer intellectual incoherence of face masks not being needed in gyms or pubs but needed in shops.
2) The casual assumptions that the consequences are going to be what they expect.
3) The 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy of politicians not wearing masks but telling the proles to do so.
4) The lack of common decency to admit error or apologise for saying for four months not to wear masks.
Even by the lamentable standard of politicians its a truly staggering lack of planning and leadership.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
The failure on masks is simply inexcusable. That's all there is to it.
This is a calamitous screw-up across the board, and the scientists are as much to blame as the politicians. Jonathan van Tam was boasting about his mask knowledge back in early March ("my friend in Hong Kong says they are pointless"). The Deputy CMO Jenny Harries said "masks are actively useless" many weeks ago.
She did not understand the concept of masks as a barrier to asymptomatic transmission to others, and she thought masks actually "trap the virus" near your mouth or nose or whatever. TThis is like a surgeon bleeding you with leeches for the canker. I knew she was utterly wrong back then and I have a decent Chemistry GCSE.
Sack her. Sack her now.
"Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in."
I can see the appeal of perma WFH for those with a nice detached house in the home counties, with a nice study and 2.5 kids. But speaking as a newly single man in his early 30's, this bloody fills me with dread. Has 4 months of this convinced the majority to bin off the commute?
It's not only sad acts like me who live to work? What about apprentices, and early years professionals who'd be immersed in office life, learning by osmosis (on bugger all money) building their network and reputations. Try doing that from your parents spare room over Zoom.
I cannot help but get the feeling that people are leaping a bit quick onthe assumption that things will change massively in the long term. Sure, a lot of people, by necessity, are being converted to the benefits of WFH culture, and plenty of other places will have little choice to cut costs on things like office space, but like eco campaigners claiming that this now means we certainly won't need loads of homes and road infrastructure because we definitely will see a permanent decrease in commuting, I feel like it is possible people will gravitate back to more familiar ways of working. Perhaps not in the same numbers as before, but more than many suspect.
Personally I'm sick to death of it. I'm sad and lonely enough as it is, and awkward enough to boot, without the benefits of cultivating actual human relationships in a work setting.
I think perhaps the main problem for many pubs in the lack of “spontaneous” passing trade. When you potentially have to plan every trip, arrange to meet people in advance etc etc, it’s just a big effort that many can’t be bothered with. Especially having got used to months at home not going out.
This is almost every pub in central London (and to a lesser extent, Brum, Manc, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, Belfast). As things stand they are all doomed.
The damage will be incalculable, and the cascade effect is, in prospect, terrifying. Read across for the USA, France, Spain, Italy...
A natural consequence of what demand there is for these leisure activities (and, based on my admittedly limited observations so far, quite a lot still exists) being concentrated in the places where people live now, rather than where they used to work or go for days out in February.
Logically, the pubs, cafes and restaurants with the best chance of survival are those which (a) obtain most of their custom from locals, arriving on foot or via short car journeys, most of whom will be regular or semi-regular patrons, and (b) have plenty of space to cope with the social distancing problem, or are able to compensate adequately for the lack thereof through takeaway sales.
Old fashioned pubs with no gardens in city centres will only survive if they belong to chains or big breweries, and the ultimate owners are willing to mothball them or run them at a loss whilst they wait for this horror to play out.
They will all be mothballed, I reckon.
Our big city high streets will become ghost towns. Why should they not? People are terrified.
I have been telling this to relatives for weeks: Central London is fucked. The amazing thing is, my relatives are as stupid as PBers. They say "Oh well, the economy needed to be rebalanced". They don't seem to understand this is value and capital being simply destroyed, never to return.
Central London is/was a unique eco-system which provided squillions to UK PLC. Foreign tourists, students and others funnelled in cash via property, rates, VAT, consumption, on and on.
Take all of that away and it won't "disperse" to small towns in Dorset or the Isle of Harris.
It will just go. The closest analogy - economically - is a major war with serious urban bombing, which levels structures which cannot be rebuilt.
Another way of putting this is that you are saying, LadyG, that there is no hope for their futures. We are doomed. The PBers you describe as 'stupid' are not saying that everything will be great, as prosperous as now, or all magically return. Reordering economies happens all the time. It is quite possible that London and the big cities will have to do so. They will. Yes we may all get poorer. we may even get more equal. But we are not all doomed.
No. The idiot PBers I am referencing were saying this "dispersal" of money out of London was actively a "good thing", like there was someone with a wheelbarrow walking out of Mayfair who would kindly deposit the excess cash - dislodged by covid - to happy provincials, perhaps in the form of gold guineas.
There will be no "dispersal" (and this is their word, not mine). The money created hitherto by the unique cultural/social nexus of London, a premier world city, is going to be destroyed. No one at all will benefit, unless you think universal impoverishment, with accompanying suffering, is a moral good in itself, because eating grass rather than meat is good for the Christian soul.
Nah, a diminution of the London economy doesn't bother me much. Though I live a little over an hour away, I only go a few times in a year. The Great Wen sucks a lot of the Southern economy up, just as if did a couple of centuries ago. I dont expect the money to appear in Leicester, but it bothers me little if house prices in London halve.
Indeed, it might be a buying opportunity for Fox jr, as like everything else in a couple of years Covid will be history.
London is responsible for a high percentage of the tax that pays for the rest of the country.
It's the opposite. It sucks the life of out the rest and throws a few dimes back.
You'd rather we didn't have a global city in our country?
On masks it's either a public health requirement or it isn't. Either we need to mask up indoors whilst mixing with people or we don't. The absurd inconsistencies - and some on here can do the usual defence if they want - and "use common sense" do not compute. Walking round Wilcos to buy paint is dangerous so wear a mask - your breathing mixes with other people breathing. But in a pub? Naah mate get some lager down your neck and don't forget to go back to the office and buy the most expensive lunch Starbucks have to offer.
As for a week and a half to get the legislation in place, come on. You must wear a mask. Now. Many people have one. Others can be sold one by the shops who all have them. Or here's how to make one from a sock in 30 seconds. Done.
At the end of the day, whatever Government, of whatever stripe, has never been able to protect your life, to your personal satisfaction. That's an illusion. YOU do that. And there is a vast array of resources and information at your disposal to help you do the things you need to do to feel safe. Don't feel safe going to the gym? Understandable. Exercise at home, or in the park. Don't want to go to the pub? Get some at home, and do a Zoom call with your mates. Stressing about all this stuff is pointless and daft.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
I think it is more that what the government is thinking and saying today won’t necessarily be what they are thinking and saying tomorrow.
It is IMPERATIVE that you wear a face mask. For the Public Good. From a week on Friday.
Seriously, does anyone want to explain why we need to wear them a week on Friday onwards but not tomorrow?
They really are fucking clueless.
Because if you're going to change the law at penalty of fines you need time to allow people to both get the information so that they know the law and give them time if need be to order masks online and get them delivered.
Will you just have to wear one, or can you be fined for not wearing it properly? And given that a scarf is allowed, what is the approved way to wear a scarf?
I suspect the delay in implementation is to sort out those details.
FWIW, scarves are pretty ineffective; multilayer cotton masks of surgical masks quite good.
Whether scarves are effective or not, they’re an approved alternative.
I know. Better that nothing, but fairly useless, though.
Visualizing the effectiveness of face masks in obstructing respiratory jets https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0016018 ... Loosely folded face masks and bandana-style coverings provide minimal stopping-capability for the smallest aerosolized respiratory droplets....
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
I think it is more that what the government is thinking and saying today won’t necessarily be what they are thinking and saying tomorrow.
Or that what the government is thinking is not the same as what the government is saying.
Or that the government thinks it is thinking one thing while actually thinking another.
Or that the government thinks it is saying one thing while actually saying another.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
No, it's not just Gove (and even if it were, he's not exactly some anonymous junior). If this were a serious government contemplating making masks compulsory, then for the last couple of weeks they'd have been sending out a consistent message that masks were highly recommended. Instead Boris has only very recently been seen in a mask, and Rishi Sunak wasn't wearing one for his Wagamama stunt just last Thursday.
They are an utter shambles, a case study in how not to govern.
1) The sheer intellectual incoherence of face masks not being needed in gyms or pubs but needed in shops.
2) The casual assumptions that the consequences are going to be what they expect.
3) The 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy of politicians not wearing masks but telling the proles to do so.
4) The lack of common decency to admit error or apologise for saying for four months not to wear masks.
Even by the lamentable standard of politicians its a truly staggering lack of planning and leadership.
I know I’ve sort of tuned out from Government pronouncements these days, but beyond bland utterances like “the science seems to be shifting in favour of mask wearing” have their actually been many attempts to send out clear messages of why and how the scientific guidance has changed?
Have they found a definitive way that the virus is passed on now then? I was quite taken with the ‘shouting/singing/cheering in large crowds’ theory, but it is obviously much easier to catch than that if we have to wear masks whilst shopping in near silence
Even just counting £9bn (and rapidly rising) based upon dubiously knocking off money that was spent in this country despite it not being something we'd voted to spend as a priority of ours still dwarves by an order of £2bn the alleged £7bn cost of Brexit - if you can believe that figure.
Is it worth paying a £9bn fee to avoid £7bn in fees?
The £7 billion just covers the cost of the UK declarations on my reading of the article. Presumably there is a similar cost for declarations on the other side of the Channel plus costs of compliance and registrations, more expensive transport costs etc.
Frankly that one particular user has been allowed to act like he's a moderator and to tell others what to do as rudely as he wants with no consequence for quite a while and I am fed up with it. And yet when they're called out they go on the defensive like the weak little prat they are. I call arrogant twats what they are and they are one.
Nobody has a right to tell anyone here what to do, end of story. I won't tell you what to do, you don't tell me what to do.
On masks it's either a public health requirement or it isn't. Either we need to mask up indoors whilst mixing with people or we don't. The absurd inconsistencies - and some on here can do the usual defence if they want - and "use common sense" do not compute. Walking round Wilcos to buy paint is dangerous so wear a mask - your breathing mixes with other people breathing. But in a pub? Naah mate get some lager down your neck and don't forget to go back to the office and buy the most expensive lunch Starbucks have to offer.
As for a week and a half to get the legislation in place, come on. You must wear a mask. Now. Many people have one. Others can be sold one by the shops who all have them. Or here's how to make one from a sock in 30 seconds. Done.
At the end of the day, whatever Government, of whatever stripe, has never been able to protect your life, to your personal satisfaction. That's an illusion. YOU do that. And there is a vast array of resources and information at your disposal to help you do the things you need to do to feel safe. Don't feel safe going to the gym? Understandable. Exercise at home, or in the park. Don't want to go to the pub? Get some at home, and do a Zoom call with your mates. Stressing about all this stuff is pointless and daft.
It's pointless and daft being concerned that this government have killed tens of thousands of people who needn't have died and that the same idiotic behaviour is driving behaviours that will keep our infection rate really high compared to our neighbours?
Even just counting £9bn (and rapidly rising) based upon dubiously knocking off money that was spent in this country despite it not being something we'd voted to spend as a priority of ours still dwarves by an order of £2bn the alleged £7bn cost of Brexit - if you can believe that figure.
Is it worth paying a £9bn fee to avoid £7bn in fees?
The £7 billion just covers the cost of the UK declarations on my reading of the article. Presumably there is a similar cost for declarations on the other side of the Channel plus costs of compliance and registrations, more expensive transport costs etc.
And £7bn is just the estimate for direct frictional costs; the loss of trade as a consequence of that could be multiples of that. It might not be quite that bad, but who knows ? For now it’s a leap in the dark.
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
No, it's not just Gove (and even if it were, he's not exactly some anonymous junior). If this were a serious government contemplating making masks compulsory, then for the last couple of weeks they'd have been sending out a consistent message that masks were highly recommended. Instead Boris has only very recently been seen in a mask, and Rishi Sunak wasn't wearing one for his Wagamama stunt just last Thursday.
They are an utter shambles, a case study in how not to govern.
1) The sheer intellectual incoherence of face masks not being needed in gyms or pubs but needed in shops.
2) The casual assumptions that the consequences are going to be what they expect.
3) The 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy of politicians not wearing masks but telling the proles to do so.
4) The lack of common decency to admit error or apologise for saying for four months not to wear masks.
Even by the lamentable standard of politicians its a truly staggering lack of planning and leadership.
I know I’ve sort of tuned out from Government pronouncements these days, but beyond bland utterances like “the science seems to be shifting in favour of mask wearing” have their actually been many attempts to send out clear messages of why and how the scientific guidance has changed?
On masks it's either a public health requirement or it isn't. Either we need to mask up indoors whilst mixing with people or we don't. The absurd inconsistencies - and some on here can do the usual defence if they want - and "use common sense" do not compute. Walking round Wilcos to buy paint is dangerous so wear a mask - your breathing mixes with other people breathing. But in a pub? Naah mate get some lager down your neck and don't forget to go back to the office and buy the most expensive lunch Starbucks have to offer.
As for a week and a half to get the legislation in place, come on. You must wear a mask. Now. Many people have one. Others can be sold one by the shops who all have them. Or here's how to make one from a sock in 30 seconds. Done.
At the end of the day, whatever Government, of whatever stripe, has never been able to protect your life, to your personal satisfaction. That's an illusion. YOU do that. And there is a vast array of resources and information at your disposal to help you do the things you need to do to feel safe. Don't feel safe going to the gym? Understandable. Exercise at home, or in the park. Don't want to go to the pub? Get some at home, and do a Zoom call with your mates. Stressing about all this stuff is pointless and daft.
It's pointless and daft being concerned that this government have killed tens of thousands of people who needn't have died and that the same idiotic behaviour is driving behaviours that will keep our infection rate really high compared to our neighbours?
Yeah, pointless.
Yes, because there's nothing you can do to change it. I've mostly tuned out for that reason.
While they’ve got Lansley on Newsnight, can they ask him about his crap NHS reforms, which are partially responsible for our social care and public health problems ?
Why are Lansley and Hunt always being interviewed when they don't hold any important positions?
Because the chicken shit government never puts up a minister
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
The failure on masks is simply inexcusable. That's all there is to it.
This is a calamitous screw-up across the board, and the scientists are as much to blame as the politicians. Jonathan van Tam was boasting about his mask knowledge back in early March ("my friend in Hong Kong says they are pointless"). The Deputy CMO Jenny Harries said "masks are actively useless" many weeks ago.
She did not understand the concept of masks as a barrier to asymptomatic transmission to others, and she thought masks actually "trap the virus" near your mouth or nose or whatever. TThis is like a surgeon bleeding you with leeches for the canker. I knew she was utterly wrong back then and I have a decent Chemistry GCSE.
Sack her. Sack her now.
"Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in."
It’s been obvious for some time that Harries is actively useless. Previously held a senior post in PHE, which gives an indication of the quality of management in that organisation...
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
No, it's not just Gove (and even if it were, he's not exactly some anonymous junior). If this were a serious government contemplating making masks compulsory, then for the last couple of weeks they'd have been sending out a consistent message that masks were highly recommended. Instead Boris has only very recently been seen in a mask, and Rishi Sunak wasn't wearing one for his Wagamama stunt just last Thursday.
They are an utter shambles, a case study in how not to govern.
1) The sheer intellectual incoherence of face masks not being needed in gyms or pubs but needed in shops.
2) The casual assumptions that the consequences are going to be what they expect.
3) The 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy of politicians not wearing masks but telling the proles to do so.
4) The lack of common decency to admit error or apologise for saying for four months not to wear masks.
Even by the lamentable standard of politicians its a truly staggering lack of planning and leadership.
I know I’ve sort of tuned out from Government pronouncements these days, but beyond bland utterances like “the science seems to be shifting in favour of mask wearing” have their actually been many attempts to send out clear messages of why and how the scientific guidance has changed?
A clear message would require them to know what they are talking about.
Even just counting £9bn (and rapidly rising) based upon dubiously knocking off money that was spent in this country despite it not being something we'd voted to spend as a priority of ours still dwarves by an order of £2bn the alleged £7bn cost of Brexit - if you can believe that figure.
Is it worth paying a £9bn fee to avoid £7bn in fees?
The £7 billion just covers the cost of the UK declarations on my reading of the article. Presumably there is a similar cost for declarations on the other side of the Channel plus costs of compliance and registrations, more expensive transport costs etc.
And £7bn is just the estimate for direct frictional costs; the loss of trade as a consequence of that could be multiples of that. It might not be quite that bad, but who knows ? For now it’s a leap in the dark.
boohoo the firms that benefit by trading with the eu are having to pay the costs of that trade instead of dipping into my pockets so they don't need to. That is mainly what our membership of the EU was corporate welfare to those firms who exported there with the proles paying their costs for them
... The current Downing Street team don't have a clue, which is why they're so slow to respond to anything. They have to wait for the polling data.
That would work to some extent if they actually did wait, rather than saying one or multiple things and then contradicting themselves a couple of days later.
In truth though, I don't think it's about waiting for polling. I thinks it's just straightforward incompetence and lack of leadership.
Wrt messaging on masks, Boris and the rest are definitely on the same page. Only Gove isn't and he's clearly been overruled. Good thing too. However, it's beyond ridiculous that the government doesn't speak with a single voice
The failure on masks is simply inexcusable. That's all there is to it.
This is a calamitous screw-up across the board, and the scientists are as much to blame as the politicians. Jonathan van Tam was boasting about his mask knowledge back in early March ("my friend in Hong Kong says they are pointless"). The Deputy CMO Jenny Harries said "masks are actively useless" many weeks ago.
She did not understand the concept of masks as a barrier to asymptomatic transmission to others, and she thought masks actually "trap the virus" near your mouth or nose or whatever. TThis is like a surgeon bleeding you with leeches for the canker. I knew she was utterly wrong back then and I have a decent Chemistry GCSE.
Sack her. Sack her now.
"Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in."
It’s been obvious for some time that Harries is actively useless. Previously held a senior post in PHE, which gives an indication of the quality of management in that organisation...
She should be sacked tomorrow and made to cover herself with ashes and ordure.
Instead she will get a gong and a pension, and everyone will quietly forget her utter incompetence.
Unless - unless - we have a very serious inquiry which scruitnizes all, from the Cabinet to the Boffins. No one should be unexamined. All should pay for the crass inpetitude.
I am not holding my breath (unless I am in Waitrose without a mask)
Comments
The delay is so people can go and buy them.
So yes it ain’t going to be fun but it’s better to spend a recession at Uni rather than doing nothing and sitting on the dole..
If you're going to the shops you're going to a busy indoor and essential shop that many vulnerable people may also need to go to. A mask helps protect others from the virus.
If you're going to the gym you're deliberately choosing to go to a non-essential building you are fully aware is a sweaty environment that is higher risk.
Masks in shops helps us get back to normal faster so that you can get back to 5 day weeks.
I think I may have done the wrong course if that is what is supposed to happen.
They are an utter shambles, a case study in how not to govern.
But apparently defence procurement doesn't need sorting out and doing so is 'an attack on the army'.
FWIW, scarves are pretty ineffective; multilayer cotton masks of surgical masks quite good.
Filtration Efficiencies of Nanoscale Aerosol by Cloth Mask Materials Used to Slow the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c05025#
This is a calamitous screw-up across the board, and the scientists are as much to blame as the politicians. Jonathan van Tam was boasting about his mask knowledge back in early March ("my friend in Hong Kong says they are pointless"). The Deputy CMO Jenny Harries said "masks are actively useless" many weeks ago.
She did not understand the concept of masks as a barrier to asymptomatic transmission to others, and she thought masks actually "trap the virus" near your mouth or nose or whatever. TThis is like a surgeon bleeding you with leeches for the canker. I knew she was utterly wrong back then and I have a decent Chemistry GCSE.
Sack her. Sack her now.
"Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-face-masks-increase-risk-infection-doctor-jenny-harries-a9396811.html
Maybe Gove just wants to think he ever mattered.
By same token, Biden can NOT pick VP from Delaware.
Furthermore same principle still applies. Going into shops are supposed to be lower risk than going into gyms and pubs. So it makes sense to protect them with masks whereas expecting someone on a treadmill to wear a gym to wear a mask isn't likely to work.
Earlier I said it would be 24 hours before the govt gave in, u-turned, and ordered face masks to be mandatory. Turns out it was just two or three hours.
Good news we have Keir...or Layla
OOPS
It would have been far more dignified to give it to the EU if there's something in the deal they're proving stubborn on. Let them wave their willy at the Chinese instead.
Ditching Pence this late would be a real sign of panic, and I don’t see much upside in any possible replacements.
As for a week and a half to get the legislation in place, come on. You must wear a mask. Now. Many people have one. Others can be sold one by the shops who all have them. Or here's how to make one from a sock in 30 seconds. Done.
But yeah. There are lots of mechanisms that point to it ending badly, and few if any that point to it ending well. Still, don't have nightmares, everyone.
And what about masks in offices?
Night all.
2) The casual assumptions that the consequences are going to be what they expect.
3) The 'do as I say not as I do' hypocrisy of politicians not wearing masks but telling the proles to do so.
4) The lack of common decency to admit error or apologise for saying for four months not to wear masks.
Even by the lamentable standard of politicians its a truly staggering lack of planning and leadership.
Personally I'm sick to death of it. I'm sad and lonely enough as it is, and awkward enough to boot, without the benefits of cultivating actual human relationships in a work setting. What's the right level of dominance?
Better that nothing, but fairly useless, though.
Visualizing the effectiveness of face masks in obstructing respiratory jets
https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0016018
... Loosely folded face masks and bandana-style coverings provide minimal stopping-capability for the smallest aerosolized respiratory droplets....
Or that the government thinks it is thinking one thing while actually thinking another.
Or that the government thinks it is saying one thing while actually saying another.
I've been wearing one throughout the pandemic in shops so no change for me.
Yeah, pointless.
For now it’s a leap in the dark.
I think I can sense his presence.
Previously held a senior post in PHE, which gives an indication of the quality of management in that organisation...
Instead she will get a gong and a pension, and everyone will quietly forget her utter incompetence.
Unless - unless - we have a very serious inquiry which scruitnizes all, from the Cabinet to the Boffins. No one should be unexamined. All should pay for the crass inpetitude.
I am not holding my breath (unless I am in Waitrose without a mask)
US provides several carrier strike groups in the Far East.
UK cobbles together about 2/3 of one.
This is feeling terribly like July 1945