Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It appears Brexit and the handling of Covid-19 by the Scottish

24567

Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    This is a real problem for Labour.

    They've got a credible leader, but they've not got a credible Shadow Chancellor and not got a credible economic policy.

    She is terrible

    https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1279716017204232193?s=20

    Imagine what the Keir Starmer fan club would say if this was Jezza's CoftE! :D

    Mind you, she ticks the Centrist boxes

    "Born in Aberdeen and privately educated at Robert Gordon College, Dodds studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at St Hilda's College, Oxford, Social Policy at the University of Edinburgh and Government at the London School of Economics. She lectured in Public Policy at King’s College London and Aston University."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Dodds
    One issue I do wonder about a bit with Starmer is how much of his top team is effectively made up of sort of rather high-end, theoretical professionals.

    Dodds - university lecturer
    Thomas - university lecturer
    Nandy - charity policy wonk
    Starmer himself - lawyer/civil servant
    Lammy - barrister and lecturer.

    As against that, Rayner definitely does not in any way, shape or form fit that mould.
    Thomas was also a commercial barrister
    Sean Thomas? A man of many talents!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    What do you think about Jacinda Ardern?
    Great PR. Less than zero substance.
    Would you like to see a CANZUK political union?
    There is lots of opportunity for collaboration in terms of security, trade, foreign policy vis a vis China, judicial and education systems etc.

    Britain has the opportunity to think of itself as a Asia Pacific power, or at least part of an Asia Pacific dialogue.

    Political union though? I’m not sure how that works or makes sense.
    Yes, I agree with this, an economic partnership and a big push for the anti-China Asia Pacific alliance. Don't see what anyone has got to gain out of political union, the UK, Australia, New Zealand or Canada. Why would any of those countries want to do that?
    I totally agree. The original British Empire was formed over time from a variety of commercial and strategic interests, not as an end in itself. The desire to cleave to someone, be be part of 'bigness' in some form as inherently good, is understandable but silly.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,707

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    What do you think about Jacinda Ardern?
    Great PR. Less than zero substance.
    Would you like to see a CANZUK political union?
    There is lots of opportunity for collaboration in terms of security, trade, foreign policy vis a vis China, judicial and education systems etc.

    Britain has the opportunity to think of itself as a Asia Pacific power, or at least part of an Asia Pacific dialogue.

    Political union though? I’m not sure how that works or makes sense.
    Yes, I agree with this, an economic partnership and a big push for the anti-China Asia Pacific alliance. Don't see what anyone has got to gain out of political union, the UK, Australia, New Zealand or Canada. Why would any of those countries want to do that?
    I totally agree. The original British Empire was formed over time from a variety of commercial and strategic interests, not as an end in itself. The desire to cleave to someone, be be part of 'bigness' in some form as inherently good, is understandable but silly.
    So on that basis you support Scottish independence, so that it can be part of the same loose grouping?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Do those figures take population density into account?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Why? Would they pursue a whisky strategy?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Sure, but several things are helping Sturgeon. First, she is naturally a more cautious, careful politician than the risk-taking Boris, and in a pandemic that plays better.

    Also, she has the advantage that everything that goes wrong can be blamed on England, while she takes the credit for anything good.

    eg the Treasury response has been generous and creditable, but the UK govt gets fuck all credit north of the border

    When the fog of the virus has begun to clear, the scenery will be changed. Scotland is going to be plunged into a terrible recession, Sturgeon might find that much harder to manage.


    I sense an 'SNP honeymoon over' struggling to come into being.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    Gabs3 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    It makes no sense not to have another referendum on Scottish Independence.

    How can anyone argue that the decision in 2016 by the UK to leave the EU, while Scotland voted to Remain, doesn't constitute significant change to the basis on which they voted to stay part of the UK in 2014 is beyond me. Especially as a lot of the people making that argument did want another EU referendum just because the Remainers in parliament wouldn't respect the will o' the people

    The criteria of “significant change” was made up by advocates of another referendum.

    There need to be clear and simple principles on how often the question can be asked. Time is the easiest and most transparent. I like 20 years because it gives a frequent review without overshadowing the normal business of government
    But a huge part of the campaign for Scotland to stay as part of the Union relied on our being part of the EU didn't it? Or am I imagining/misremembering? If so, the UK voting to leave changes everything, particularly as Scotland voted 62-38 Remain
    That can be part of the debate when the next referendum happens. But we had the vote and it was for No. That should be it for a generation. It is undemocratic to have a "Yes means out, No means you ask again". Give it 20 years.
    'we had the vote'

    Are you Scottish? If so, apologies that I don't remember your on the spot contributions in the febrile days before the 2014 referendum.
    I wasn't on PB in 2014. But I have been highly consistent on the principle of respecting the vote in referendums even when they don't go my way. I was devastated over the EU result, but democracy must be fair and equally applied.
    Yeah, but did you have a vote in the 2014 referendum?
    No, I didn't qualify under the terms of the franchise. Are you going down the "this is a local vote for local people and nobody else can comment" route?
    So you are just a plonker that did not live in Scotland or have a vote, another PB Scotch expert shows up.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Isn't the abolition of the Union and eventual indpendence of ENGLAND the true objective of the Conservative & Disunionist Party? Seems long strides have been made toward that goal especially by Thatcher and Johnson.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    If the govt was canny there would be at 40% Or even 50% of the electorate threshold imposed on any constitutional referendum.

    And/or, any Scottish vote must be opened up to anyone who either resides, *or was born* in Scotland.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    justin124 said:

    If SLAB could actually find a decent leader that would help.

    I have seen no evidence at all that he is interested in such a role, but would not Gordon Brown be an obvious person to appoint to that position? He would surely be a strong candidate to put forward as First Minister and likely to appeal to many who have switched from Labour to SNP.
    Dear god what are they putting in the water down there
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    But the bit that counts is the areas where the population actually are. Whuch is the important element. You could add another 100,000 square km to Scotland of empty **** all with only midges and deer, and it woujldn't make any difference to the actual; incidence and death rates.

    I've not seen a decent comparative analysis.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    We do not give a hoot what some wally in London thinks, read the polls and see what Scottish people think.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Why? Would they pursue a whisky strategy?
    Now if it were a single malt strategy ...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    What do you think about Jacinda Ardern?
    Great PR. Less than zero substance.
    Would you like to see a CANZUK political union?
    There is lots of opportunity for collaboration in terms of security, trade, foreign policy vis a vis China, judicial and education systems etc.

    Britain has the opportunity to think of itself as a Asia Pacific power, or at least part of an Asia Pacific dialogue.

    Political union though? I’m not sure how that works or makes sense.
    Yes, I agree with this, an economic partnership and a big push for the anti-China Asia Pacific alliance. Don't see what anyone has got to gain out of political union, the UK, Australia, New Zealand or Canada. Why would any of those countries want to do that?
    I totally agree. The original British Empire was formed over time from a variety of commercial and strategic interests, not as an end in itself. The desire to cleave to someone, be be part of 'bigness' in some form as inherently good, is understandable but silly.
    So on that basis you support Scottish independence, so that it can be part of the same loose grouping?
    That doesn't follow. My position on Scottish independence is that it could succeed (with some sacrifices); I don't believe in Project Fear, but that it would be a great loss, both for Scotland and the other component parts of the UK.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Err... that seems a bit excessive. As of 19th June (last comparable date), the ONS recorded 46537 Covid-19 deaths in England, and the NRS recorded 4119 Covid-19 deaths in Scotland. Given the differences in population, that's ~10% fewer Covid-19 fatalities in Scotland compared to England. It's a bit better but not close to 36%...

    Note that the ONS and NRS figures are more definitive than the daily reported figures provided by either DHSC or by the Scottish Government.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Max if you write utter rubbish and get called out for it , try to have a better grievance than that. You wrote a load of innuendo and bollox about something you have no idea about, I am merely pointing out that fact. All that from a few minutes on the telly as well. Afraid if you write garbage be prepared to get called out on it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited July 2020

    Isn't the abolition of the Union and eventual indpendence of ENGLAND the true objective of the Conservative & Disunionist Party? Seems long strides have been made toward that goal especially by Thatcher and Johnson.

    No, 51% of English Tory voters still oppose English independence (excluding don't knows) though Wales, not England, now has the biggest majority in favour of the Union of any of the 4 UK nations

    https://twitter.com/CapX/status/1278946141468594178?s=20
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Do those figures take population density into account?
    Yes they do Rob, it shows somewhere, it is per million , Per 1m Pop, on header of the table.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    If SLAB could actually find a decent leader that would help.

    I have seen no evidence at all that he is interested in such a role, but would not Gordon Brown be an obvious person to appoint to that position? He would surely be a strong candidate to put forward as First Minister and likely to appeal to many who have switched from Labour to SNP.
    Dear god what are they putting in the water down there
    Labour did very well in Scotland at the 2010 GE under his leadership.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Tokyo Governor Re-Elected

    NYT July 5 - TOKYO — In rewarding Tokyo’s first female governor, Yuriko Koike, with a second term on Sunday, voters endorsed her highly visible leadership as the sprawling metropolis has avoided the kind of spiraling death toll from the coronavirus seen in other world capitals.

    But a recent resurgence in cases in Tokyo has made clear that her challenge is far from over.

    Even as Ms. Koike, 67, cruised to victory on Sunday, with exit polls by Japanese news media showing her winning 60 percent of the vote, Tokyo reported 111 new infections, its fourth straight day over 100.

    The creeping increase in cases has started to raise anxieties that the capital may have to reinstate elements of the nearly two-month state of emergency that it emerged from at the end of May. That growing caseload was felt in the election: About 15 percent of voters cast their ballots before Sunday, and turnout on Election Day was just above 37 percent.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Do those figures take population density into account?
    Yes they do Rob, it shows somewhere, it is per million , Per 1m Pop, on header of the table.
    That's not population density.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited July 2020
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Characterising being told that you don't have much of a clue on what you're talking about as an accusation of being 'anti-Scotland'. You guys are too predictable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    Oh dear , now your reading skills have failed as well Max, look at the headings, per 1M of population. Keep trying you will find something bad sometime.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Why? Would they pursue a whisky strategy?
    Now if it were a single malt strategy ...
    There would be nothing to grain by it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    This is a real problem for Labour.

    They've got a credible leader, but they've not got a credible Shadow Chancellor and not got a credible economic policy.

    She is terrible

    https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1279716017204232193?s=20

    Imagine what the Keir Starmer fan club would say if this was Jezza's CoftE! :D

    Mind you, she ticks the Centrist boxes

    "Born in Aberdeen and privately educated at Robert Gordon College, Dodds studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at St Hilda's College, Oxford, Social Policy at the University of Edinburgh and Government at the London School of Economics. She lectured in Public Policy at King’s College London and Aston University."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Dodds
    One issue I do wonder about a bit with Starmer is how much of his top team is effectively made up of sort of rather high-end, theoretical professionals.

    Dodds - university lecturer
    Thomas - university lecturer
    Nandy - charity policy wonk
    Starmer himself - lawyer/civil servant.

    As against that, Rayner definitely does not in any way, shape or form fit that mould.
    Good point, but let’s look at the govt:

    Johnson - journalist / tv host
    Gove - journalist / tv host
    Cummings - something dodgy in Russia
    Shapps - confidence trickster
    Williamson - fireplace salesman
    Patel - lung cancer advocate.

    Even Sunak gives off the vague air of a man who has married not just money but access to power.
    I didnt know Gove had done a TV show! Apparently Gove went through celebs rubbish bins.....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Stab_in_the_Dark_(TV_series)
    https://youtu.be/8FKiDUmESDE
    The mark of a desperate man!
    Not sure what all the fuss is about. What's wealth tax in the Labour manifesto not six months ago?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Max if you write utter rubbish and get called out for it , try to have a better grievance than that. You wrote a load of innuendo and bollox about something you have no idea about, I am merely pointing out that fact. All that from a few minutes on the telly as well. Afraid if you write garbage be prepared to get called out on it.
    Mate, you and I both know Nicola is crap. The minute Scotland becomes independent you'll say it too. Where is Scotland's economic policy, where is Scotland's tourism strategy, where is Scotland's strategy for the hospitality industry? I'm not saying the UK government has got everything right, they haven't, but at least there's a strategy. I'm genuinely worried that Nicola is screwing things up and Scotland is going to have a terrible recession while the rest of the UK is recovering.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    That was a good 7/1 tip on Bottas, if I may be so humble as to say so myself...
  • I'd rather have Nicola and I'm English
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Characterising being told that you don't have much of a clue on what you're talking about as an accusation of being 'anti-Scotland'. You guys are too predictable.
    Lol, again you can't take any criticism of Nicola. You're all so sensitive about this. It's just sad.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Golly, I thought the SCons had some roasters as candidates.

    https://twitter.com/KwCongressional/status/1279562816324763648?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Well, that was many things but not dull. The order was changing even after the race finished!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Sandpit said:

    That was a good 7/1 tip on Bottas, if I may be so humble as to say so myself...

    Great shout. A lot of soon to be ex-McLaren employees won't be enjoying that podium all that much, but it was a great lap from Lando to deny Lewis a podium.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    This is a real problem for Labour.

    They've got a credible leader, but they've not got a credible Shadow Chancellor and not got a credible economic policy.

    She is terrible

    https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1279716017204232193?s=20

    Imagine what the Keir Starmer fan club would say if this was Jezza's CoftE! :D

    Mind you, she ticks the Centrist boxes

    "Born in Aberdeen and privately educated at Robert Gordon College, Dodds studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at St Hilda's College, Oxford, Social Policy at the University of Edinburgh and Government at the London School of Economics. She lectured in Public Policy at King’s College London and Aston University."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Dodds
    One issue I do wonder about a bit with Starmer is how much of his top team is effectively made up of sort of rather high-end, theoretical professionals.

    Dodds - university lecturer
    Thomas - university lecturer
    Nandy - charity policy wonk
    Starmer himself - lawyer/civil servant
    Lammy - barrister and lecturer.

    As against that, Rayner definitely does not in any way, shape or form fit that mould.
    Thomas was also a commercial barrister
    Sean Thomas? A man of many talents!
    But more accounts than talents, all the same.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Nigelb said:
    So, what The Atlantic has discovered is that mob "justice" leads to injustice towards minorities?

    Film at 11
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    That was a good 7/1 tip on Bottas, if I may be so humble as to say so myself...

    Great shout. A lot of soon to be ex-McLaren employees won't be enjoying that podium all that much, but it was a great lap from Lando to deny Lewis a podium.
    Hopefully McLaren are able to pick up some sponsors and reverse those cuts.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Sure, but several things are helping Sturgeon. First, she is naturally a more cautious, careful politician than the risk-taking Boris, and in a pandemic that plays better.

    Also, she has the advantage that everything that goes wrong can be blamed on England, while she takes the credit for anything good.

    eg the Treasury response has been generous and creditable, but the UK govt gets fuck all credit north of the border

    When the fog of the virus has begun to clear, the scenery will be changed. Scotland is going to be plunged into a terrible recession, Sturgeon might find that much harder to manage.
    Your first bit contradicts your second bit. You are right in your analysis that all good bits can be claimed for the SNP Government and the bad bits put on 'London', so why would a recession be different?

    The bottom line is, the worst thing about devolution from a UK Government perspective is their own total absence from the conversation in Scotland. The SNP have ruthlessly exploited every lever of power (such as control over VisitScotland) to turn them into a campaigning machine for independence. It isn't a recipe for Governing well, but it is a good recipe for trying for indy again.

    The UK Government needs to get itself back in the conversation again, if it is interested in strengthening the Union.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Characterising being told that you don't have much of a clue on what you're talking about as an accusation of being 'anti-Scotland'. You guys are too predictable.
    Lol, again you can't take any criticism of Nicola. You're all so sensitive about this. It's just sad.
    Luckily since you haven't the teeniest influence in the matter, I can just put you in the big fat pile of 'who cares what they say'. You're piteous cries about sensitivity over 'criticism of Nicola' in the face of crushing polling is just sauce.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    So, this Panelbase poll "could be a house effect or it might not, until we’ve polling from other pollsters then we cannot definitively say.", but the 2013 Panelbase poll was the definitive truth about the position?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    "The UK Government needs to get itself back in the conversation again, if it is interested in strengthening the Union."

    Is it? Really?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Well, that was quite a race. My bet didn't come off, but it was really rather exciting.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    That was a good 7/1 tip on Bottas, if I may be so humble as to say so myself...

    Great shout. A lot of soon to be ex-McLaren employees won't be enjoying that podium all that much, but it was a great lap from Lando to deny Lewis a podium.
    Hopefully McLaren are able to pick up some sponsors and reverse those cuts.
    It's a bloodbath - not for the top brass, of course - they're basically going to outsource as much as possible from now on.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    It makes no sense not to have another referendum on Scottish Independence.

    How can anyone argue that the decision in 2016 by the UK to leave the EU, while Scotland voted to Remain, doesn't constitute significant change to the basis on which they voted to stay part of the UK in 2014 is beyond me. Especially as a lot of the people making that argument did want another EU referendum just because the Remainers in parliament wouldn't respect the will o' the people

    The criteria of “significant change” was made up by advocates of another referendum.

    There need to be clear and simple principles on how often the question can be asked. Time is the easiest and most transparent. I like 20 years because it gives a frequent review without overshadowing the normal business of government
    You going to rewrite the Good Friday agreement?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Characterising being told that you don't have much of a clue on what you're talking about as an accusation of being 'anti-Scotland'. You guys are too predictable.
    Lol, again you can't take any criticism of Nicola. You're all so sensitive about this. It's just sad.
    Luckily since you haven't the teeniest influence in the matter, I can just put you in the big fat pile of 'who cares what they say'. You're piteous cries about sensitivity over 'criticism of Nicola' in the face of crushing polling is just sauce.
    Yes, because you clearly have so much influence on the matter? You're utterly delusional.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited July 2020
    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Possibly, but perception is everything. Boris Johnson is 1. English and 2. comes over as a buffoon. Nicola Sturgeon is 1. Scottish and 2. comes over professionally on television.

    Beyond that, the Union is now so rickety and unbalanced that it's almost certainly doomed anyway. It's not so long since 45% of the Scottish electorate voted to terminate the Union, something that has not gone unnoticed on the other side of the border, and (at a guess) at least a third of Scots are very keen indeed to get away. Scotland is also a tenth of the size of England and assertions that it is ignored and dominated, especially now the party political systems of the respective sides are very different in character, will always find many receptive ears.

    Meanwhile, from the English point of view, there is a widespread perception that Scotland is continually hosed down with excessive quantities of cash (in return for which the English receive nothing but complaints and insults,) and many voters bristle at the thought of Scottish MPs interfering in a wide range of English domestic business when the English have no rights running in the opposite direction.

    As I mentioned in the previous thread, many Unionists in Scotland backed devolution based on three disastrously misplaced assumptions. Firstly, that autonomy would satisfy Scots voters' desire for a degree of self-governance within the broader British state, rather than feeding the fires of independence with a can of petrol. Secondly, that English voters either wouldn't notice that they had been relegated to second class status within their own country, or that even if they did they'd be so keen to keep Scotland happy that they'd put up with the Barnett formula and the West Lothian problem forever and ever. And thirdly, that building the devolved institutions based on representation without taxation - having a powerful government and legislature, but making it almost entirely dependent for its funds on a block grant from London - was somehow an act of profound genius, rather than one of supreme idiocy that gifted unto their Nationalist opponents a custom-built grievance engine. Anything that works well in Scotland can be presented as the product of good local administration; anything that goes wrong in Scotland can be blamed on Westminster for unfairly starving Scotland of cash.

    Honestly, the devolution settlement has been such an effective tool for the rapid and now nearly complete destruction of the British state that you have to wonder if all the people responsible belonged to a covert nationalist cell. It has proven to be a masterpiece of sabotage.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Well, that was quite a race. My bet didn't come off, but it was really rather exciting.

    Hey, MD, passed one of your tips from yesterday to a good friend who is a big F1 fan. Sadly, he couldn't make heads or tail out of it, not being a bettor OR a Brit!\

    Sorry about your bet. BTW, did you see any Confederate flags?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Irish, at the race?

    And not to worry, I'm disturbingly accustomed to bets not coming off ;)
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    Well, that was quite a race. My bet didn't come off, but it was really rather exciting.

    Lewis doing his best to wreck my Albon for championship top three bet.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    A "once in a generation" referendum.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited July 2020
    sarissa said:

    So, this Panelbase poll "could be a house effect or it might not, until we’ve polling from other pollsters then we cannot definitively say.", but the 2013 Panelbase poll was the definitive truth about the position?

    It should be a truth universally acknowledged that those now saying the 2013 Panelbase was credible are exactly the same people who were saying it was a pile of poo in 2013.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Possibly, but perception is everything. Boris Johnson is 1. English and 2. comes over as a buffoon. Nicola Sturgeon is 1. Scottish and 2. comes over professionally on television.

    Beyond that, the Union is now so rickety and unbalanced that it's almost certainly doomed anyway. It's not so long since 45% of the Scottish electorate voted to terminate the Union, something that has not gone unnoticed on the other side of the border, and (at a guess) at least a third of Scots are very keen indeed to get away. Scotland is also a tenth of the size of England and assertions that it is ignored and dominated, especially now the party political systems of the respective sides are very different in character, will always find many receptive ears.

    Meanwhile, from the English point of view, there is a widespread perception that Scotland is continually hosed down with excessive quantities of cash (in return for which the English receive nothing but complaints and insults,) and many voters bristle at the thought of Scottish MPs interfering in a wide range of English domestic business when the English have no rights running in the opposite direction.

    As I mentioned in the previous thread, many Unionists in Scotland backed devolution based on three disastrously misplaced assumptions. Firstly, that autonomy would satisfy Scots voters' desire for a degree of self-governance within the broader British state, rather than feeding the fires of independence with a can of petrol. Secondly, that English voters either wouldn't notice that they had been relegated to second class status within their own country, or that even if they did they'd be so keen to keep Scotland happy that they'd put up with the Barnett formula and the West Lothian problem forever and ever. And thirdly, that building the devolved institutions based on representation without taxation - having a powerful government and legislature, but making it almost entirely dependent for its funds on a block grant from London - was somehow an act of profound genius, rather than one of supreme idiocy that gifted unto their Nationalist opponents a custom-built grievance engine. Anything that works well in Scotland can be presented as the product of good local administration; anything that goes wrong in Scotland can be blamed on Westminster for unfairly starving Scotland of cash.

    Honestly, the devolution settlement has been such an effective tool for the rapid and now nearly complete destruction of the British state that you have to wonder if all the people responsible belonged to a covert nationalist cell. It has proven to be a masterpiece of sabotage.
    Yes.

    Constitutional arson seems to be a popular thing in the U.K., at least since 1997.

    In turn this is a symptom of British exceptionalism whereby constitutional matters is a rather swotty subject best left to sandal wearers and the wogs south of Calais.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr (Miss?) Sarissa, perhaps unlikely to come off given the dominance of Mercedes and Verstappen, but not impossible.

    And yeah, not great. Did cost Hamilton a bit as well.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    But no one is claiming that Spain has done a good job, especially not compared to Germany. We have people on here claiming that Nicola has, it's clear she hasn't but has dressed it up to look better to dim witted nationalists who will attack anyone who dares to point out it has and continues to be a disaster with a high number of excess deaths and and no economic or tourism strategy to speak of. This thread could be used as a case study.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited July 2020
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Characterising being told that you don't have much of a clue on what you're talking about as an accusation of being 'anti-Scotland'. You guys are too predictable.
    Lol, again you can't take any criticism of Nicola. You're all so sensitive about this. It's just sad.
    Luckily since you haven't the teeniest influence in the matter, I can just put you in the big fat pile of 'who cares what they say'. You're piteous cries about sensitivity over 'criticism of Nicola' in the face of crushing polling is just sauce.
    Yes, because you clearly have so much influence on the matter? You're utterly delusional.
    Not very much, just more than the zero you possess.
    Perhaps you can (re)join one of the Unionist parties and resign again 'cos they're so crap at their jobs. That'll show em!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    The UK Government needs to get itself back in the conversation again, if it is interested in strengthening the Union.

    BoZo has decreed the Union safe in his hands. The matter is closed. Move on...

    Of course it's not quite that simple. He is not beloved in Scotland as he is in (certain parts of) England.

    His comment about the border was completely tone deaf, but indicative of how much he actually knows, thinks or cares about the Union.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    This is a real problem for Labour.

    They've got a credible leader, but they've not got a credible Shadow Chancellor and not got a credible economic policy.

    She is terrible

    https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1279716017204232193?s=20

    Imagine what the Keir Starmer fan club would say if this was Jezza's CoftE! :D

    Mind you, she ticks the Centrist boxes

    "Born in Aberdeen and privately educated at Robert Gordon College, Dodds studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at St Hilda's College, Oxford, Social Policy at the University of Edinburgh and Government at the London School of Economics. She lectured in Public Policy at King’s College London and Aston University."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Dodds
    One issue I do wonder about a bit with Starmer is how much of his top team is effectively made up of sort of rather high-end, theoretical professionals.

    Dodds - university lecturer
    Thomas - university lecturer
    Nandy - charity policy wonk
    Starmer himself - lawyer/civil servant.

    As against that, Rayner definitely does not in any way, shape or form fit that mould.
    Good point, but let’s look at the govt:

    Johnson - journalist / tv host
    Gove - journalist / tv host
    Cummings - something dodgy in Russia
    Shapps - confidence trickster
    Williamson - fireplace salesman
    Patel - lung cancer advocate.

    Even Sunak gives off the vague air of a man who has married not just money but access to power.
    I didnt know Gove had done a TV show! Apparently Gove went through celebs rubbish bins.....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Stab_in_the_Dark_(TV_series)
    https://youtu.be/8FKiDUmESDE
    The mark of a desperate man!
    Not sure what all the fuss is about. What's wealth tax in the Labour manifesto not six months ago?
    I was refering more to Gove's historic, fledgling TV career as being the mark of a desperate man.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    UK case numbers - 516

    England regional case data - by specimen date

    Number from the last 3-5 days are provisional and subject to revision. Last 5 days included for completeness -

    image
    image
    image
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Today's Covid death counts:

    gov.uk: 22
    NHS England: 18 (12 within the last week plus six historic cases)

    There have been 516 new lab confirmed cases reported today
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited July 2020
    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.

    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr (Miss?) Sarissa, perhaps unlikely to come off given the dominance of Mercedes and Verstappen, but not impossible.

    And yeah, not great. Did cost Hamilton a bit as well.

    Good to see McLaren on the podium. It should steady the ship in Woking
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Characterising being told that you don't have much of a clue on what you're talking about as an accusation of being 'anti-Scotland'. You guys are too predictable.
    Lol, again you can't take any criticism of Nicola. You're all so sensitive about this. It's just sad.
    Luckily since you haven't the teeniest influence in the matter, I can just put you in the big fat pile of 'who cares what they say'. You're piteous cries about sensitivity over 'criticism of Nicola' in the face of crushing polling is just sauce.
    Yes, because you clearly have so much influence on the matter? You're utterly delusional.
    Not very much, just more than the zero you possess.
    Perhaps you can (re)join one of the Unionist parties and resign again 'cos they're so crap at their jobs. That'll show em!
    Why would I? I think Scotland should become independent, I said so in 2014 when you lot bottled it and tbh, I think if there if a second referendum you'll all collectively bottle it again and cling to mummy England. It's a shame because I think Scotland as an independent nation would be a much less miserable place and despite all of the project fear stuff, it would be a viable nation and in time it could become independently wealthy.

    If Scotland does go independent I think it will be one of those collective realisations that it probably should have happened 50 years ago. If you lose another referendum then we're stuck together for better or worse.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Possibly, but perception is everything. Boris Johnson is 1. English and 2. comes over as a buffoon. Nicola Sturgeon is 1. Scottish and 2. comes over professionally on television.

    Beyond that, the Union is now so rickety and unbalanced that it's almost certainly doomed anyway. It's not so long since 45% of the Scottish electorate voted to terminate the Union, something that has not gone unnoticed on the other side of the border, and (at a guess) at least a third of Scots are very keen indeed to get away. Scotland is also a tenth of the size of England and assertions that it is ignored and dominated, especially now the party political systems of the respective sides are very different in character, will always find many receptive ears.

    Meanwhile, from the English point of view, there is a widespread perception that Scotland is continually hosed down with excessive quantities of cash (in return for which the English receive nothing but complaints and insults,) and many voters bristle at the thought of Scottish MPs interfering in a wide range of English domestic business when the English have no rights running in the opposite direction.

    As I mentioned in the previous thread, many Unionists in Scotland backed devolution based on three disastrously misplaced assumptions. Firstly, that autonomy would satisfy Scots voters' desire for a degree of self-governance within the broader British state, rather than feeding the fires of independence with a can of petrol. Secondly, that English voters either wouldn't notice that they had been relegated to second class status within their own country, or that even if they did they'd be so keen to keep Scotland happy that they'd put up with the Barnett formula and the West Lothian problem forever and ever. And thirdly, that building the devolved institutions based on representation without taxation - having a powerful government and legislature, but making it almost entirely dependent for its funds on a block grant from London - was somehow an act of profound genius, rather than one of supreme idiocy that gifted unto their Nationalist opponents a custom-built grievance engine. Anything that works well in Scotland can be presented as the product of good local administration; anything that goes wrong in Scotland can be blamed on Westminster for unfairly starving Scotland of cash.

    Honestly, the devolution settlement has been such an effective tool for the rapid and now nearly complete destruction of the British state that you have to wonder if all the people responsible belonged to a covert nationalist cell. It has proven to be a masterpiece of sabotage.
    Yes.

    Constitutional arson seems to be a popular thing in the U.K., at least since 1997.

    In turn this is a symptom of British exceptionalism whereby constitutional matters is a rather swotty subject best left to sandal wearers and the wogs south of Calais.
    On the contrary. The British have always taken a keen interest in constitutional matters.

    The issue is change has only ever come about because of the need to gain advantage - so ultimately, all changes have been both piecemeal and partisan.

    To prove that:

    1832 - the need for the Whigs to split the government and secure a new voter base.

    1867 - the need of the Tories to ensure that the counties had increased representation so they could win a majority

    1884 - an attempt to enfranchise voters in the counties that Gladstone thought would vote Liberal

    1911 - the need of the Liberals to overcome the veto power of the House of Lords

    1918 - the requirement to reward voters for their sacrifice in the First World War, to assure them the government had not forgotten about them.

    1997-99 - to embed Labour dominance at a local level and make the House of Lords answerable to the PM.

    Arguably about the only disinterested major reform was the Equal Franchise Act of 1928 - but even that isn’t clear cut as the Tory hierarchy genuinely believed women would vote for them (in which they were not altogether wrong).

    Which means we have a democratic system that doesn’t necessarily have widespread support. Admittedly, until recently it didn’t generally face widespread opposition either.

    What Blair should have done is reformed the constitution from the guts up, via a Royal Commission and with the backing of at least the Liberal Democrats. But through a curious mixture of timidity and megalomania he preferred his ‘parish council’ and appointed Parliament.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    F1: post-race ramble of a very exciting Austrian Grand Prix:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2020/07/austria-post-race-analysis-2020.html

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.

    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
    Do we know of any candidate since the rules were changed to allow candidates to actually vote for themselves who has voted for an opponent?

    Powell in February 1974 was of course not standing so I’m discounting him.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    ydoethur said:

    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.

    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
    Do we know of any candidate since the rules were changed to allow candidates to actually vote for themselves who has voted for an opponent?

    Powell in February 1974 was of course not standing so I’m discounting him.
    Corbyn in error?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    ydoethur said:

    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.

    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
    Do we know of any candidate since the rules were changed to allow candidates to actually vote for themselves who has voted for an opponent?

    Powell in February 1974 was of course not standing so I’m discounting him.
    Corbyn in error?
    No, he was present when voting took place, but he doesn’t think he was involved.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited July 2020
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.

    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
    Do we know of any candidate since the rules were changed to allow candidates to actually vote for themselves who has voted for an opponent?

    Powell in February 1974 was of course not standing so I’m discounting him.
    Corbyn in error?
    No, he was present when voting took place, but he doesn’t think he was involved.
    Corbyn may not have directly voted for his Conservative opponent, but you can't fault his effort to ensure he installed Johnson into No 10.

    To be fair to Corbyn the "possibly in error" column could be a long one from members of all parties.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    "The UK Government needs to get itself back in the conversation again, if it is interested in strengthening the Union."

    Is it? Really?

    It says it is, so we should assume so until it it proven otherwise.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited July 2020

    "The UK Government needs to get itself back in the conversation again, if it is interested in strengthening the Union."

    Is it? Really?

    It says it is, so we should assume so until it it proven otherwise.
    From a government led by a man who said he had never been intimate with Petronella Wyatt?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.

    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
    Every time I hear anything political from Clarkson, it could be paraphrased as "Oi lads, you know I'm a right wing, salt of the earth sort of chap, BUT" and some sort of left wing claptrap dribbles out. He even recommended joining the euro I believe.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    justin124 said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    If SLAB could actually find a decent leader that would help.

    I have seen no evidence at all that he is interested in such a role, but would not Gordon Brown be an obvious person to appoint to that position? He would surely be a strong candidate to put forward as First Minister and likely to appeal to many who have switched from Labour to SNP.
    Dear god what are they putting in the water down there
    Labour did very well in Scotland at the 2010 GE under his leadership.
    Are the Tories likely to bring back Cameron, Brown is a dinosaur and the world has moved on, he will not be brought out of his crypt. They are stupid but not that stupid.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    edited July 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Oh dear, Carlotta is down to using Hague now, almost the level of agent pish. How desperate can unionists get, have they no-one with any with any skills that they need to use a failed pet food salesman who pretends he understands numbers.
    The gibberings of a moron, what point is he trying to prove with that garbage, what is he even trying to say, that the government should still be analogue.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    I hope you've all been out to clap for Boris today!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    If SLAB could actually find a decent leader that would help.

    I have seen no evidence at all that he is interested in such a role, but would not Gordon Brown be an obvious person to appoint to that position? He would surely be a strong candidate to put forward as First Minister and likely to appeal to many who have switched from Labour to SNP.
    Dear god what are they putting in the water down there
    Labour did very well in Scotland at the 2010 GE under his leadership.
    Are the Tories likely to bring back Cameron, Brown is a dinosaur and the world has moved on, he will not be brought out of his crypt. They are stupid but not that stupid.
    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    If SLAB could actually find a decent leader that would help.

    I have seen no evidence at all that he is interested in such a role, but would not Gordon Brown be an obvious person to appoint to that position? He would surely be a strong candidate to put forward as First Minister and likely to appeal to many who have switched from Labour to SNP.
    Dear god what are they putting in the water down there
    Labour did very well in Scotland at the 2010 GE under his leadership.
    Are the Tories likely to bring back Cameron, Brown is a dinosaur and the world has moved on, he will not be brought out of his crypt. They are stupid but not that stupid.
    I agree. No reason why a younger Brown era figure might not try for it though.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    "The UK Government needs to get itself back in the conversation again, if it is interested in strengthening the Union."

    Is it? Really?

    It says it is, so we should assume so until it it proven otherwise.
    My current theory is that Johnson wants to keep hold of Scotland, for several reasons:

    (i) he's got plenty of other stuff to deal with and another independence referendum would be a huge distraction
    (ii) he's concerned that his party will demand his head if, as seems likely, he were to lose said referendum
    (iii) and besides, he doesn't want to go down in history as the last Prime Minister of the UK (somebody else can have that label instead)
    (iv) Scotland's continued presence makes it even more difficult than it would otherwise be for Labour to win a Commons majority and, if the general impression amongst the public is that it can't get over the finishing line on its own, Starmer is therefore vulnerable to the same anti-SNP attack lines in England that were previously used against Ed Miliband

    Should the SNP win the expected handsome victory in next year's Scottish Parliament election then the Prime Minister might yet surprise us all and accede to renewed demands for a second referendum - if he's really that bothered about rescuing the Union then stonewalling might not necessarily be regarded as the best way to preserve it in the long run - but under the circumstances it seems more likely that he will refuse.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    I hope you've all been out to clap for Boris today!

    Nope. Nor has anyone else in my street.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.

    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
    Every time I hear anything political from Clarkson, it could be paraphrased as "Oi lads, you know I'm a right wing, salt of the earth sort of chap, BUT" and some sort of left wing claptrap dribbles out. He even recommended joining the euro I believe.
    We live in a parallel universe!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905

    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.
    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
    And yet she had problems working with the Lib Dems. Were the problems a matter of principle, do you think, or personal?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Oh dear, Carlotta is down to using Hague now, almost the level of agent pish. How desperate can unionists get, have they no-one with any with any skills that they need to use a failed pet food salesman who pretends he understands numbers.
    The gibberings of a moron, what point is he trying to prove with that garbage, what is he even trying to say, that the government should still be analogue.
    Meanwhile, is it true that the Scottish Govt COVID Advisory group didn't meet until two days after England went into lockdown?

    He's only quoting their own minutes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    I hope you've all been out to clap for Boris today!

    Nope. Nor has anyone else in my street.
    It looked a bit sad on BBC News.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    O

    "The UK Government needs to get itself back in the conversation again, if it is interested in strengthening the Union."

    Is it? Really?

    It says it is, so we should assume so until it it proven otherwise.
    My current theory is that Johnson wants to keep hold of Scotland, for several reasons:

    (i) he's got plenty of other stuff to deal with and another independence referendum would be a huge distraction
    (ii) he's concerned that his party will demand his head if, as seems likely, he were to lose said referendum
    (iii) and besides, he doesn't want to go down in history as the last Prime Minister of the UK (somebody else can have that label instead)
    (iv) Scotland's continued presence makes it even more difficult than it would otherwise be for Labour to win a Commons majority and, if the general impression amongst the public is that it can't get over the finishing line on its own, Starmer is therefore vulnerable to the same anti-SNP attack lines in England that were previously used against Ed Miliband

    Should the SNP win the expected handsome victory in next year's Scottish Parliament election then the Prime Minister might yet surprise us all and accede to renewed demands for a second referendum - if he's really that bothered about rescuing the Union then stonewalling might not necessarily be regarded as the best way to preserve it in the long run - but under the circumstances it seems more likely that he will refuse.
    I think he'll delay. 'The end of the SNP honeymoon' is a running joke with our Nat contingent, but gravitational pull will take effect at some point, probably when the Sturgeon era comes to a close. There's more to it than that, but slightly more favourable conditions can't hurt.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    A dissenting view on St Nicola:

    When she succeeded Alex Salmond, it seemed like there was a cooler mind in charge but steadily the pique and the grievance and the certainty took over again. She wants to be the first minister for all of Scotland but her tribal impulses consistently get the better of her. What she offers is Salmondism without Salmond.

    https://stephendaisley.com/2020/07/02/sturgeons-media-meltdown-was-salmondism-without-salmond/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    If SLAB could actually find a decent leader that would help.

    I have seen no evidence at all that he is interested in such a role, but would not Gordon Brown be an obvious person to appoint to that position? He would surely be a strong candidate to put forward as First Minister and likely to appeal to many who have switched from Labour to SNP.
    Dear god what are they putting in the water down there
    Labour did very well in Scotland at the 2010 GE under his leadership.
    Are the Tories likely to bring back Cameron, Brown is a dinosaur and the world has moved on, he will not be brought out of his crypt. They are stupid but not that stupid.
    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    If SLAB could actually find a decent leader that would help.

    I have seen no evidence at all that he is interested in such a role, but would not Gordon Brown be an obvious person to appoint to that position? He would surely be a strong candidate to put forward as First Minister and likely to appeal to many who have switched from Labour to SNP.
    Dear god what are they putting in the water down there
    Labour did very well in Scotland at the 2010 GE under his leadership.
    Are the Tories likely to bring back Cameron, Brown is a dinosaur and the world has moved on, he will not be brought out of his crypt. They are stupid but not that stupid.
    I agree. No reason why a younger Brown era figure might not try for it though.
    Any thoughts on who. They have zero talent at holyrood.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    edited July 2020
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Hague....a failed pet food salesman....
    Given the latest accounts report profits of £400k on turnover of £14.2m with assets of nearly £5m, in what sense is he "failed".

    You might want to temper your libel with honesty....

    https://tinyurl.com/yb9t2zxr
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    Just got in. And realised I must have been out in the street for the clap.
    Not a sausage round here.
This discussion has been closed.