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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It appears Brexit and the handling of Covid-19 by the Scottish

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  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Oh dear, Carlotta is down to using Hague now, almost the level of agent pish. How desperate can unionists get, have they no-one with any with any skills that they need to use a failed pet food salesman who pretends he understands numbers.
    The gibberings of a moron, what point is he trying to prove with that garbage, what is he even trying to say, that the government should still be analogue.
    Meanwhile, is it true that the Scottish Govt COVID Advisory group didn't meet until two days after England went into lockdown?

    He's only quoting their own minutes
    So that means nobody had done anything before that then , everything started at that meeting, you cannot be as thick as you are making out. You and that thick arsehole are basing everything on the minutes of a meeting.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Not sure that the Yoons resorting to 'yebbut Scotland is just as crap as England if you squint at it in a certain light' is the killer line they think it is, particularly when they started their Covid journey with the Scottish services are less resilient than those of the UK guff.

    Mind you, when was the last time a Yoon came up with a killer line?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Lol Malc you don't want to admit it do you. You're not as thick as the rest of your fellow travellers so I know it must be burning you up inside that Nicola is fucking up the economy in Scotland for 760 deaths per million (NRS) vs 840 deaths per million in England (ONS). It's been a disaster in both countries, pretending otherwise as you Nats are trying to do is just delusional, and I know you're not delusional Malc.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    edited July 2020
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    For god's sake, all of Scotland's population is crowded into the central belt , you guys are just pathetic. Go on with your fantasy why do I care , reality means nothing to you Tories, just make up any old crap and then obfuscate and lie.
    Enough of whining English unionists for me.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    It makes no sense not to have another referendum on Scottish Independence.

    How can anyone argue that the decision in 2016 by the UK to leave the EU, while Scotland voted to Remain, doesn't constitute significant change to the basis on which they voted to stay part of the UK in 2014 is beyond me. Especially as a lot of the people making that argument did want another EU referendum just because the Remainers in parliament wouldn't respect the will o' the people

    The criteria of “significant change” was made up by advocates of another referendum.

    There need to be clear and simple principles on how often the question can be asked. Time is the easiest and most transparent. I like 20 years because it gives a frequent review without overshadowing the normal business of government
    But a huge part of the campaign for Scotland to stay as part of the Union relied on our being part of the EU didn't it? Or am I imagining/misremembering? If so, the UK voting to leave changes everything, particularly as Scotland voted 62-38 Remain
    I remember evidence from a while back (BPS) that the factors that are important to voter decisions are usually quite different to what politicians campaign on...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    Those aren't the correct figures either, the NRS figures are 760 deaths per million, the Scottish health department is undercounting COVID deaths more than it's English counterpart.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Oh dear, Carlotta is down to using Hague now, almost the level of agent pish. How desperate can unionists get, have they no-one with any with any skills that they need to use a failed pet food salesman who pretends he understands numbers.
    The gibberings of a moron, what point is he trying to prove with that garbage, what is he even trying to say, that the government should still be analogue.
    Meanwhile, is it true that the Scottish Govt COVID Advisory group didn't meet until two days after England went into lockdown?

    He's only quoting their own minutes
    So that means nobody had done anything before that then , everything started at that meeting, you cannot be as thick as you are making out. You and that thick arsehole are basing everything on the minutes of a meeting.
    I love it when you get foul mouthed - it's your 'tell' for having lost an argument.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    For god's sake, all of Scotland's population is crowded into the central belt , you guys are just pathetic. Go on with your fantasy why do I care , reality means nothing to you Tories, just make up any old crap and then obfuscate and lie.
    Enough of whining English unionists for me.
    How did I obfuscate and lie? I was pointing out that population is not the same as population density.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Not sure that the Yoons resorting to 'yebbut Scotland is just as crap as England if you squint at it in a certain light' is the killer line they think it is, particularly when they started their Covid journey with the Scottish services are less resilient than those of the UK guff.

    Mind you, when was the last time a Yoon came up with a killer line?
    It's not squinting in a certain light you cretin. Your own government statistics show a death rate of 760 per million.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    For god's sake, all of Scotland's population is crowded into the central belt
    "All".

    Or 70%......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland

    Nats & Maths.....$115 oil, anyone?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555
    edited July 2020

    "The UK Government needs to get itself back in the conversation again, if it is interested in strengthening the Union."

    Is it? Really?

    It says it is, so we should assume so until it it proven otherwise.
    My current theory is that Johnson wants to keep hold of Scotland, for several reasons:

    (i) he's got plenty of other stuff to deal with and another independence referendum would be a huge distraction
    (ii) he's concerned that his party will demand his head if, as seems likely, he were to lose said referendum
    (iii) and besides, he doesn't want to go down in history as the last Prime Minister of the UK (somebody else can have that label instead)
    (iv) Scotland's continued presence makes it even more difficult than it would otherwise be for Labour to win a Commons majority and, if the general impression amongst the public is that it can't get over the finishing line on its own, Starmer is therefore vulnerable to the same anti-SNP attack lines in England that were previously used against Ed Miliband

    Should the SNP win the expected handsome victory in next year's Scottish Parliament election then the Prime Minister might yet surprise us all and accede to renewed demands for a second referendum - if he's really that bothered about rescuing the Union then stonewalling might not necessarily be regarded as the best way to preserve it in the long run - but under the circumstances it seems more likely that he will refuse.
    Agree on the whole. The trickiest question for Boris is whether to cut the knot by holding (and winning) Ref2. As things stand to the sceptical mind the status quo is on balance OK for the SNP and the Tories, and less good for Labour.

    The SNP carry on having billions of politicky things to do and games to play at the expense of the UK taxpayer without having to take responsibility for anything real like debt or war.

    The Scots carry on having an excellent grievance, a national hobby.

    The Tories keep the British bit of the Union, annoy everyone on the left in Scotland, and preserve Labour's difficulty of where to stand on the Scotland issue, to which there cannot be for Labour a decent answer.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Hague....a failed pet food salesman....
    Given the latest accounts report profits of £400k on turnover of £14.2m with assets of nearly £5m, in what sense is he "failed".

    You might want to temper your libel with honesty....

    https://tinyurl.com/yb9t2zxr
    He failed in having any kind of moral authority in Scotland when he threatened to move his business out of Scotland and put his employees out of work if we voted Yes in 2014.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    This is a real problem for Labour.

    They've got a credible leader, but they've not got a credible Shadow Chancellor and not got a credible economic policy.

    She is terrible

    https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1279716017204232193?s=20

    Imagine what the Keir Starmer fan club would say if this was Jezza's CoftE! :D

    Mind you, she ticks the Centrist boxes

    "Born in Aberdeen and privately educated at Robert Gordon College, Dodds studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at St Hilda's College, Oxford, Social Policy at the University of Edinburgh and Government at the London School of Economics. She lectured in Public Policy at King’s College London and Aston University."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Dodds
    One issue I do wonder about a bit with Starmer is how much of his top team is effectively made up of sort of rather high-end, theoretical professionals.

    Dodds - university lecturer
    Thomas - university lecturer
    Nandy - charity policy wonk
    Starmer himself - lawyer/civil servant.

    As against that, Rayner definitely does not in any way, shape or form fit that mould.
    Good point, but let’s look at the govt:

    Johnson - journalist / tv host
    Gove - journalist / tv host
    Cummings - something dodgy in Russia
    Shapps - confidence trickster
    Williamson - fireplace salesman
    Patel - lung cancer advocate.

    Even Sunak gives off the vague air of a man who has married not just money but access to power.
    I didnt know Gove had done a TV show! Apparently Gove went through celebs rubbish bins.....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Stab_in_the_Dark_(TV_series)
    What an appropriate title though
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    On topic -

    We hate the EU. They love it. We like "Boris". They loathe him. We have had our fill of foreigners coming here. They want to attract them. I could go on. The point is that Scotland is feeling more and more like a place which has nothing in common with England. Whatever the obstacles - which are real - I cannot see it remaining in the UK for too much longer. 10 years max.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    I think it is very poor form how she has used the platform of Covid press conferences to attack the U.K. government
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. kinabalu, the time of Johnson is blissfully transient. England has a much higher level of inward migration than Scotland which naturally helps explain the difference in attitude.

    The EU point also relates to cities in England and its towns and cities. And it's worth remembering a great many Scots did vote to leave (although a minority, of course).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited July 2020
    MaxPB said:


    It's not squinting in a certain light you cretin. Your own government statistics show a death rate of 760 per million.

    You ok hun, ye seem a little overwrought? It's obviously affected your powers of comprehension.

    the big fat pile of 'who cares what they say'

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Hague....a failed pet food salesman....
    Given the latest accounts report profits of £400k on turnover of £14.2m with assets of nearly £5m, in what sense is he "failed".

    You might want to temper your libel with honesty....

    https://tinyurl.com/yb9t2zxr
    He failed in having any kind of moral authority in Scotland when he threatened to move his business out of Scotland and put his employees out of work if we voted Yes in 2014.
    Citation required.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    Dear God save us from Scotch experts
    Ah, I'm anti-Scotland I guess. You guys are too predictable, Malc.
    Characterising being told that you don't have much of a clue on what you're talking about as an accusation of being 'anti-Scotland'. You guys are too predictable.
    Lol, again you can't take any criticism of Nicola. You're all so sensitive about this. It's just sad.
    Luckily since you haven't the teeniest influence in the matter, I can just put you in the big fat pile of 'who cares what they say'. You're piteous cries about sensitivity over 'criticism of Nicola' in the face of crushing polling is just sauce.
    Yes, because you clearly have so much influence on the matter? You're utterly delusional.
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Not sure that the Yoons resorting to 'yebbut Scotland is just as crap as England if you squint at it in a certain light' is the killer line they think it is, particularly when they started their Covid journey with the Scottish services are less resilient than those of the UK guff.

    Mind you, when was the last time a Yoon came up with a killer line?
    It's not squinting in a certain light you cretin. Your own government statistics show a death rate of 760 per million.
    You ok hun, ye seem a little overwrought? It's obviously affected your powers of comprehension.

    the big fat pile of 'who cares what they say

    You do, obviously. You can't stand it can you that Nicola is as shit as Boris.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    ClippP said:

    Even as a momentary lapse by Clarkson, I think that is immense news from the man that claimed we (not him) had voted for a Communist government in May 1997.
    Anna not such a surprise. I even think she probably considered voting on occassions for Nick Palmer instead of herself.
    And yet she had problems working with the Lib Dems. Were the problems a matter of principle, do you think, or personal?
    She has always come across as a little bit grumpy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting that Devi Sridhar is advocating something the CMO of Guernsey (no new cases for 62 days) has ruled out - the Guernsey model is "suppression" - not "elimination" - Sridhar is arguing for the latter:

    As an island, Great Britain is in a strong position to eliminate the virus and fully reopen schools, bars and theatres as well as bringing back sports matches and weddings, without pointless debates about 1 or 2 metre distancing measures.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/22/pandemic-zero-coronavirus-britain?CMP=share_btn_tw

    This advice may be behind what is driving Sturgeon on the economy. The view of the Guernsey CMO is that while it exists in the world, "elimination" is impossible.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Gabs3 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    It makes no sense not to have another referendum on Scottish Independence.

    How can anyone argue that the decision in 2016 by the UK to leave the EU, while Scotland voted to Remain, doesn't constitute significant change to the basis on which they voted to stay part of the UK in 2014 is beyond me. Especially as a lot of the people making that argument did want another EU referendum just because the Remainers in parliament wouldn't respect the will o' the people

    The criteria of “significant change” was made up by advocates of another referendum.

    There need to be clear and simple principles on how often the question can be asked. Time is the easiest and most transparent. I like 20 years because it gives a frequent review without overshadowing the normal business of government
    But a huge part of the campaign for Scotland to stay as part of the Union relied on our being part of the EU didn't it? Or am I imagining/misremembering? If so, the UK voting to leave changes everything, particularly as Scotland voted 62-38 Remain
    That can be part of the debate when the next referendum happens. But we had the vote and it was for No. That should be it for a generation. It is undemocratic to have a "Yes means out, No means you ask again". Give it 20 years.
    'we had the vote'

    Are you Scottish? If so, apologies that I don't remember your on the spot contributions in the febrile days before the 2014 referendum.
    I wasn't on PB in 2014. But I have been highly consistent on the principle of respecting the vote in referendums even when they don't go my way. I was devastated over the EU result, but democracy must be fair and equally applied.
    Yeah, but did you have a vote in the 2014 referendum?
    No, I didn't qualify under the terms of the franchise. Are you going down the "this is a local vote for local people and nobody else can comment" route?
    No, I'm going down the 'someone who who says "we had a vote" when they didn't actually have a vote is a diddy' route.
    That’s entirely dependent on your view of “we”

    If you are British then the residents of Scotland voting in the referendum counts as “we had a vote” in the same way as “we have local elections” even if your council is not up that year

    If you see “we” are referring to Scots only then you are correct
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    For god's sake, all of Scotland's population is crowded into the central belt
    "All".

    Or 70%......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland

    Nats & Maths.....$115 oil, anyone?
    But add the urban areas of the Dundee, Perth and Aberdeen conurbations and now Inverness and you'll get well over that percentage.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Scott_xP said:
    And when a good fraction of them get back to work it'll be his jobs miracle?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Hague....a failed pet food salesman....
    Given the latest accounts report profits of £400k on turnover of £14.2m with assets of nearly £5m, in what sense is he "failed".

    You might want to temper your libel with honesty....

    https://tinyurl.com/yb9t2zxr
    He failed in having any kind of moral authority in Scotland when he threatened to move his business out of Scotland and put his employees out of work if we voted Yes in 2014.
    Citation required.
    The phoney pious reference to his conscience is the icing on the cake of wankery.

    'Economically, though, the SNP’s case for independence does not stack up. On Monday, I drove through the pouring rain to visit Kevin Hague, a small businessman who (like many Scottish businessmen) sells mainly into the English market. Sitting in his Livingston warehouse he told me that independence would open up a nightmarish world of uncertainty about currency, potential export controls and regulation, meaning that he has no choice except to leave Scotland in the event of a Yes vote.

    Several months ago, after consulting his conscience, he called his 90 workers together and told them his plans. “I have made people redundant before,” he told me, “I knew I couldn’t look my employees in the face and tell them they were losing their jobs unless I had filled them in with the material facts which affect them personally in advance of the vote.” Since when, Mr Hague has endured bitter abuse from Scottish nationalists falsely accusing him of trying to manipulate the result.'

    https://tinyurl.com/ybb58tez
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited July 2020

    Mr. kinabalu, the time of Johnson is blissfully transient. England has a much higher level of inward migration than Scotland which naturally helps explain the difference in attitude.

    The EU point also relates to cities in England and its towns and cities. And it's worth remembering a great many Scots did vote to leave (although a minority, of course).

    One can bat things around but it feels increasingly like another country. And I think the vote will be settled on that level. Forget spreadsheets.

    As to your points. (1) Johnson is not forever but the fact we voted for a person like this as PM is forever, i.e. it shows a chasm in culture and attitudes. (2) That probably does partly explain it but the "it" very much remains. (3) England ex London (which is not really England) was as clear for Leave as Scotland was for Remain. Again, a chasm between the 2 nations on a massive issue of identity.

    They're gone, I think. 10 years max.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    RobD said:

    And when a good fraction of them get back to work it'll be his jobs miracle?

    Not for the ones that don't. If it's like here, there may be entire industries that just die out.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. kinabalu, tosh.

    Corbyn was roundly rejected in Scotland as in England. That's why Johnson won. It's entirely possible Starmer will do well in both parts of the UK.

    On identity: Scotland voted to remain in the UK in 2014 in a 'once in a generation' referendum.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    And when a good fraction of them get back to work it'll be his jobs miracle?

    Not for the ones that don't. If it's like here, there may be entire industries that just die out.
    True, that's why I didn't say all. I think it's just a little silly to be blaming Trump for the unemployment figures, since they were caused by the shutdown more than anything. Unless they are arguing there shouldn't have been one?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    For god's sake, all of Scotland's population is crowded into the central belt
    "All".

    Or 70%......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland

    Nats & Maths.....$115 oil, anyone?
    But add the urban areas of the Dundee, Perth and Aberdeen conurbations and now Inverness and you'll get well over that percentage.
    Dundee and Perth are included in that Wiki estimate.....

    Around 70% of the country's population (3.5 million) live in the Central Belt —a region stretching in a northeast-southwest orientation between the major cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow, and including the major settlements of Paisley, Stirling, Falkirk, Perth and Dundee
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Oh dear, Carlotta is down to using Hague now, almost the level of agent pish. How desperate can unionists get, have they no-one with any with any skills that they need to use a failed pet food salesman who pretends he understands numbers.
    The gibberings of a moron, what point is he trying to prove with that garbage, what is he even trying to say, that the government should still be analogue.
    Meanwhile, is it true that the Scottish Govt COVID Advisory group didn't meet until two days after England went into lockdown?

    He's only quoting their own minutes
    When did the English Covid Advisory group form?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited July 2020

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Hague....a failed pet food salesman....
    Given the latest accounts report profits of £400k on turnover of £14.2m with assets of nearly £5m, in what sense is he "failed".

    You might want to temper your libel with honesty....

    https://tinyurl.com/yb9t2zxr
    He failed in having any kind of moral authority in Scotland when he threatened to move his business out of Scotland and put his employees out of work if we voted Yes in 2014.
    Citation required.
    The phoney pious reference to his conscience is the icing on the cake of wankery.

    'Economically, though, the SNP’s case for independence does not stack up. On Monday, I drove through the pouring rain to visit Kevin Hague, a small businessman who (like many Scottish businessmen) sells mainly into the English market. Sitting in his Livingston warehouse he told me that independence would open up a nightmarish world of uncertainty about currency, potential export controls and regulation, meaning that he has no choice except to leave Scotland in the event of a Yes vote.

    Several months ago, after consulting his conscience, he called his 90 workers together and told them his plans. “I have made people redundant before,” he told me, “I knew I couldn’t look my employees in the face and tell them they were losing their jobs unless I had filled them in with the material facts which affect them personally in advance of the vote.” Since when, Mr Hague has endured bitter abuse from Scottish nationalists falsely accusing him of trying to manipulate the result.'

    https://tinyurl.com/ybb58tez
    Well, I'm sure you can put his mind at rest on such matters as currency, potential export controls and regulation

    If you ran a business in Scotland which primarily exported to England - wouldn't you want to know?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    Those aren't the correct figures either, the NRS figures are 760 deaths per million, the Scottish health department is undercounting COVID deaths more than it's English counterpart.
    That would show up in the National statistics all death figures though.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited July 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    And when a good fraction of them get back to work it'll be his jobs miracle?

    Not for the ones that don't. If it's like here, there may be entire industries that just die out.
    I am amazed that this notion passes the PB Tories by. They fall over themselves with excitement at the prospect that current opinion polls have the Conservatives polling at GE 2019 levels. The GE is 4 years out, with so much likely to go wrong.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    sarissa said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    It makes no sense not to have another referendum on Scottish Independence.

    How can anyone argue that the decision in 2016 by the UK to leave the EU, while Scotland voted to Remain, doesn't constitute significant change to the basis on which they voted to stay part of the UK in 2014 is beyond me. Especially as a lot of the people making that argument did want another EU referendum just because the Remainers in parliament wouldn't respect the will o' the people

    The criteria of “significant change” was made up by advocates of another referendum.

    There need to be clear and simple principles on how often the question can be asked. Time is the easiest and most transparent. I like 20 years because it gives a frequent review without overshadowing the normal business of government
    You going to rewrite the Good Friday agreement?
    Umm... no.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    edited July 2020

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Hague....a failed pet food salesman....
    Given the latest accounts report profits of £400k on turnover of £14.2m with assets of nearly £5m, in what sense is he "failed".

    You might want to temper your libel with honesty....

    https://tinyurl.com/yb9t2zxr
    He failed in having any kind of moral authority in Scotland when he threatened to move his business out of Scotland and put his employees out of work if we voted Yes in 2014.
    Citation required.
    The phoney pious reference to his conscience is the icing on the cake of wankery.

    'Economically, though, the SNP’s case for independence does not stack up. On Monday, I drove through the pouring rain to visit Kevin Hague, a small businessman who (like many Scottish businessmen) sells mainly into the English market. Sitting in his Livingston warehouse he told me that independence would open up a nightmarish world of uncertainty about currency, potential export controls and regulation, meaning that he has no choice except to leave Scotland in the event of a Yes vote.

    Several months ago, after consulting his conscience, he called his 90 workers together and told them his plans. “I have made people redundant before,” he told me, “I knew I couldn’t look my employees in the face and tell them they were losing their jobs unless I had filled them in with the material facts which affect them personally in advance of the vote.” Since when, Mr Hague has endured bitter abuse from Scottish nationalists falsely accusing him of trying to manipulate the result.'

    https://tinyurl.com/ybb58tez
    Well, I'm sure you can put his mind at rest on such matters as currency, potential export controls and regulation

    If you ran a business in Scotland which primarily exported to England - wouldn't you want to know?
    Love it.

    X.

    I can't believe X, please provide citation.

    Y+Z = X.

    Let's move swiftly on to other letters of the alphabet.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    Re, header

    Cherry is awful. I think you should be fined nine groats.

    Should you care to turn your mind to something other than village affairs it'd be great.
  • BantermanBanterman Posts: 287
    What exactly is an independent Scotland? It will be broke from day 1. Any large business that can, will have relocated to England. It won't be innthe EU & it's huge debt position will mean it won't be allowed to join. It won't have currency.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And when a good fraction of them get back to work it'll be his jobs miracle?
    The Lincoln Project has gone from making a string of excellent ads, to a string of real duds, this being one of them. Even the most ardent anti-Trumpist can see through the idea that all the COVID job losses are solely on Trump's actions.

    Clearly, Trump's decisions and actions have exacerbated a terrible situation. But to suggest that any other President would not be presiding over record-making job losses during a COVID outbreak is just plain stupid and negates any power or resonance this ad might have.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Mr. kinabalu, tosh.

    Corbyn was roundly rejected in Scotland as in England. That's why Johnson won. It's entirely possible Starmer will do well in both parts of the UK.

    On identity: Scotland voted to remain in the UK in 2014 in a 'once in a generation' referendum.

    I don't post tosh. You should take a leaf. For example, putting the Con landslide all down to Corbyn. C'mon. That was just one factor. Brexit and "Boris" were right in the mix too.

    As to 2014, yep, that was the result. So what? My strong sense is that next time it will go the other way.

    What do you think? Do you see another "no" vote?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Interesting thread

    It really is. This caught my eye

    https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1279749341981241350

    BoZo did the same thing. He tweeted about a statue. He wrote a column about a statue.

    Awesome leadership...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Why is that Twitter person attacking Scotland, he's just an anti-Scotland unionist.
    Hague....a failed pet food salesman....
    Given the latest accounts report profits of £400k on turnover of £14.2m with assets of nearly £5m, in what sense is he "failed".

    You might want to temper your libel with honesty....

    https://tinyurl.com/yb9t2zxr
    He failed in having any kind of moral authority in Scotland when he threatened to move his business out of Scotland and put his employees out of work if we voted Yes in 2014.
    Citation required.
    The phoney pious reference to his conscience is the icing on the cake of wankery.

    'Economically, though, the SNP’s case for independence does not stack up. On Monday, I drove through the pouring rain to visit Kevin Hague, a small businessman who (like many Scottish businessmen) sells mainly into the English market. Sitting in his Livingston warehouse he told me that independence would open up a nightmarish world of uncertainty about currency, potential export controls and regulation, meaning that he has no choice except to leave Scotland in the event of a Yes vote.

    Several months ago, after consulting his conscience, he called his 90 workers together and told them his plans. “I have made people redundant before,” he told me, “I knew I couldn’t look my employees in the face and tell them they were losing their jobs unless I had filled them in with the material facts which affect them personally in advance of the vote.” Since when, Mr Hague has endured bitter abuse from Scottish nationalists falsely accusing him of trying to manipulate the result.'

    https://tinyurl.com/ybb58tez
    Well, I'm sure you can put his mind at rest on such matters as currency, potential export controls and regulation

    If you ran a business in Scotland which primarily exported to England - wouldn't you want to know?
    Love it.

    X.

    I can't believe X, please provide citation.

    Y+Z = X.

    Let's move swiftly on to other letters of the alphabet.
    A Scottish business exporting to England would surely need to know answers to basic questions like “currency”, “regulation” and so forth. But you think he doesn’t deserve an answer to that?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And when a good fraction of them get back to work it'll be his jobs miracle?
    #Trumpton
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    And when a good fraction of them get back to work it'll be his jobs miracle?

    Not for the ones that don't. If it's like here, there may be entire industries that just die out.
    True, that's why I didn't say all. I think it's just a little silly to be blaming Trump for the unemployment figures, since they were caused by the shutdown more than anything. Unless they are arguing there shouldn't have been one?
    #Trumpton
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. kinabalu, Corbyn was absolutely toxic for Labour in 2019. That's not some minor factor.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Mississippi election commissioner's social media comment about Black voters causes uproar

    https://eu.hattiesburgamerican.com/story/news/local/2020/06/30/mississippi-election-commissioner-accused-making-racist-comments/3280055001/
    A social media comment with racial undertones made by a Mississippi election commissioner sparked outrage across the state on the same weekend state legislators voted to retire the flag and its Confederate emblem.

    "I'm concerned about voter registration in Mississippi," the commissioner wrote. "The blacks are having lots (of) events for voter registration. People in Mississippi have to get involved, too."...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    TimT said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And when a good fraction of them get back to work it'll be his jobs miracle?
    The Lincoln Project has gone from making a string of excellent ads, to a string of real duds, this being one of them. Even the most ardent anti-Trumpist can see through the idea that all the COVID job losses are solely on Trump's actions.

    Clearly, Trump's decisions and actions have exacerbated a terrible situation. But to suggest that any other President would not be presiding over record-making job losses during a COVID outbreak is just plain stupid and negates any power or resonance this ad might have.
    Yeah, the logical extension of their argument is nothing should have been closed down. There are many other things that they could have focused on instead.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited July 2020
    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
  • Starmer has decent odds of getting 7 seats in Scotland, as Corbyn achieved in 2017. Surely 10+ should not be out of the question as well.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    RobD said:

    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
    More interestingly, who is the Queen?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
    More interestingly, who is the Queen?
    Pretty sure they found the fountain of youth in the basement of Buck House.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    tlg86 said:

    More interestingly, who is the Queen?

    BeYonce
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    Scott_xP said:
    Yep lets waste loads more police time on pointless political points scoring. Twats.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    RobD said:

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
    More interestingly, who is the Queen?
    Pretty sure they found the fountain of youth in the basement of Buck House.
    Did PBers catch that pic of La Maxwell & Kevin Spacey sitting on royal thrones in Buckingham Palace?

    Makes me wonder, how many lap dances did His Foul Lowness Andrew Duck of Fuck enjoy while lounging on Mummy & Daddy's favorite furniture?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
    More interestingly, who is the Queen?
    Meghan
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    RobD said:

    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
    Order of Lenin...if you believe some of the wilder theories...

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    America -- Dem Veep -- in the last few minutes, Kamala Harris has gone for a walk on Betfair, and Susan Rice has come in a point. No idea why. Earlier today the Duckworth fans were nibbling away.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
    More interestingly, who is the Queen?
    Meghan
    Don't ask me, I just screenshotted the leaked BBC page, published early!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re: Randy Andy, press reports state that US prosecutors have filed a mutual legal assistance application with British authorities, for purpose of compelling His Royal Foulness to testify under oath (in the UK) re: his dealings with Epstein & Maxwell.

    IIRC last time a royal duke was in a similar situation, was when HRH the Prince of Wales & future King Edward VII gave testimony in a divorce case.

    Think the Duke of Fuck has surpassed his great-great-great-granddaddy. NOT in a good way.

    Question is, what will HM Government do or NOT do about it? Methinks that protecting this royal piece of shit would be MOST impolitic.

    IF yours truly was BoJo (a fate neither of us would desire) my course would be clear: trade Andy for the hit-and-run spook's spouse.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Lewis feeling too subjugated to podium obvs.

    https://twitter.com/MeanwhileScotia/status/1279830522303262721?s=20
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    On the death figures: total deaths from the virus equate to around 880 per million in England and Wales, 760 per million in Scotland and 440 per million in Northern Ireland, based on latest available ONS, NRS and NISRA data. Scotland is therefore doing about 15% better than England and Wales, whilst Northern Ireland's death rate is very much lower than either of the other two. Thus the argument that Scottish policy has been significantly superior to that elsewhere, and that this is the main explanation for the difference in death rates, only holds water if Northern Ireland - which has been comparatively swift to ease lockdown - has done much more brilliantly even than Scotland. Something else must be going on.

    It'll likely take us years to get to the bottom of these difference if we ever do, but FWIW I think that the idea that different areas were exposed differentially to the virus, before everything started to grind to a halt in the run up to lockdown, and that this was largely responsible in turn for the big differences in death rates probably has some validity to it. Hence the fact that, digging beneath the national figures, there are obviously such huge differences in the numbers of cases between different local authority areas. Large parts of East Anglia, the South West and many parts of the Midlands further away from the big cities have so far got off lightly from Covid.

    My hunch is that a secondary explanation might turn out to be in the decision not to allow incoming flights to continue unimpeded until recently. Could many of the remaining hotspots have something to do with family visits and reunions amongst the South Asian diaspora communities? A lot of the places that have been worst affected, and continue to be worst affected now, are in Lancashire, South Yorkshire and West Yorkshire; however, also sticking out like a sore thumb near the top of the league (although cases in these areas appear mercifully to be fading out now) are Peterborough and the three unitaries in Bedfordshire.

    Why have Peterborough, Luton and Bedford been whacked by this thing when Norwich, Cambridge and especially Stevenage, which is only a few miles down the road from Luton and a similar distance out from London, have got off very lightly?

    Oh, and I read this recently (from the Torygraph website, dated 26 June):

    Half of Britain’s imported coronavirus cases originate from Pakistan, The Telegraph understands, amid calls for tougher quarantine checks on arrivals from "high risk" countries.

    Data from Public Health England (PHE) shows that 30 cases of coronavirus in people who have travelled from Pakistan since June 4, which is understood to represent half of the incidents of imported infection.

    More than 65,000 people have travelled to Britain on 190 flights since March 1 from Pakistan, which is reporting 4,000 Covid-19 cases a day, and has seen a new spike in the disease after easing its lockdown measures. Most are thought to have UK passports.


    QED?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Have we discussed this? :D

    Twitter link

    We can all do that!

    image
    Doesn't Johnson look young for a man in his mid eighties!

    That's what comes of never having to do a day's work in a lifetime.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    For god's sake, all of Scotland's population is crowded into the central belt
    "All".

    Or 70%......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland

    Nats & Maths.....$115 oil, anyone?
    But add the urban areas of the Dundee, Perth and Aberdeen conurbations and now Inverness and you'll get well over that percentage.
    Dundee and Perth are included in that Wiki estimate.....

    Around 70% of the country's population (3.5 million) live in the Central Belt —a region stretching in a northeast-southwest orientation between the major cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow, and including the major settlements of Paisley, Stirling, Falkirk, Perth and Dundee
    So they are indeed. I just didn't think of them as in the central belt. Perth is certainly not in the Midland Valley (which is what I was taught about at school).

    What one really needs is an analysis which slices the distribution of population in Scotland vs England into slices and compares the result. An average density doesn't work for this sort of discussion.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929

    RobD said:

    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
    Order of Lenin...if you believe some of the wilder theories...

    You don't think it suspicious that Prime Minister Al Johnson is universally known by his KGB code name?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    America -- Dem Veep -- in the last few minutes, Kamala Harris has gone for a walk on Betfair, and Susan Rice has come in a point. No idea why. Earlier today the Duckworth fans were nibbling away.

    Personally think Susan Rice would be a BAD choice. Why? Because her extensive experience at NSA and UN would NOT be pluses, but the opposite - Americans are NOT focused on foreign affairs right now (even the trade war) and why would Dems want to make Libya & Syria campaign fodder for the GOP?

    Methinks there may be a large degree of misdirection by the Biden campaign re: VP pick - because there ALWAYS is at this stage of the selection process.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563

    America -- Dem Veep -- in the last few minutes, Kamala Harris has gone for a walk on Betfair, and Susan Rice has come in a point. No idea why. Earlier today the Duckworth fans were nibbling away.

    Personally think Susan Rice would be a BAD choice. Why? Because her extensive experience at NSA and UN would NOT be pluses, but the opposite - Americans are NOT focused on foreign affairs right now (even the trade war) and why would Dems want to make Libya & Syria campaign fodder for the GOP?

    Methinks there may be a large degree of misdirection by the Biden campaign re: VP pick - because there ALWAYS is at this stage of the selection process.
    Is there not the possibility that they could have a President concentrating on domestic affairs but a VP who has lots of international experience so can keep a weather eye on foreign affairs to make sure nothing catches them by surprise politically?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    RobD said:

    Cummings has to wait 29 years for a knighthood? Something seems off here.
    Order of Lenin...if you believe some of the wilder theories...

    You don't think it suspicious that Prime Minister Al Johnson is universally known by his KGB code name?
    Always get Boris Johnson mixed up with Boris Badenov.

    Latter is a better joke, but former is bigger one - though his plots have been more successful.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    For god's sake, all of Scotland's population is crowded into the central belt
    "All".

    Or 70%......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland

    Nats & Maths.....$115 oil, anyone?
    But add the urban areas of the Dundee, Perth and Aberdeen conurbations and now Inverness and you'll get well over that percentage.
    Dundee and Perth are included in that Wiki estimate.....

    Around 70% of the country's population (3.5 million) live in the Central Belt —a region stretching in a northeast-southwest orientation between the major cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow, and including the major settlements of Paisley, Stirling, Falkirk, Perth and Dundee
    So they are indeed. I just didn't think of them as in the central belt. Perth is certainly not in the Midland Valley (which is what I was taught about at school).

    What one really needs is an analysis which slices the distribution of population in Scotland vs England into slices and compares the result. An average density doesn't work for this sort of discussion.
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    sarissa said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who among we English wouldn’t rather have Nicola managing us through the virus crisis rather than Boris?

    Dunno. I’m rather fed up with her now.
    I think she’s a grievance monger, a control freak, and rather petty in the way she has tried to communicate a “better, Scottish” covid policy.

    Scots deserve fun too.

    I’m not sure they get it from Sturgeon.
    Have to agree with this, she's done as badly as the government but given it better branding and her sycophants in Scotland paint any criticism as being anti-Scotland.

    I'm very worried that she's completely screwing up the opening of the economy on purpose so that when the government refuse to bail her out with additional employment and business support measures she can claim that it's an English plot and the value of the Union is zero. She seems to be content with smashing the Scottish economy and that's very worrying.

    Every time Sunak or Boris speak it's very clear they see the economy as the major priority in this, whenever I see Nicola on TV she seems not to give a fuck about the economy and seems more interested in showing her "different" strategy to England despite the conditions being basically the same and no evidence that the government opening up the economy has really been all that bad anyway. Now this new threat of keeping English tourists out and the ridiculous people at the border is just another example of how Nicola is happy to screw the Scottish economy just to be different to England.
    At the moment, perceptions are entirely dominated by the virus. Stats on deaths, infections, and so on.

    In six months' time we will have a better idea of the economic carnage. I am already hearing wails of pain from people getting sacked

    A very different context.
    But the stats in Scotland are just as bad as England once population density is taken into account.
    Rubbish they are miles better, 64% of English rates.
    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
    Yes and Scotland has around 30% of the population density. However you want to cut it Scotland has done very poorly at this.
    So that's the reason Spain has done so much better that Germany? Oh hang on a minute.....
    And the reason England has done so much better than the Netherlands. #Covidnationalism
    But who is saying that? You're the ones saying Scotland has done better than England and that Nicola has had a better crisis than the reality. She's crap, admit it.
    Max you were the one that said Scotland was worse, we showed you the reality and now you are whining like a spoilt brat. Stop digging and go lick your wounds and stop making a richard head of yourself.
    Your figures did not contradict what he said.
    Rob, I do not know what numbers you read but for me 455 is less than 708. That tells me Scotland had 64% of the death rate of England. Can you dispute that fact or have I gone as doolally as a Tory.
    Max was talking about correcting for population density. Population is not the same as population density.
    For god's sake, all of Scotland's population is crowded into the central belt
    "All".

    Or 70%......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland

    Nats & Maths.....$115 oil, anyone?
    But add the urban areas of the Dundee, Perth and Aberdeen conurbations and now Inverness and you'll get well over that percentage.
    Dundee and Perth are included in that Wiki estimate.....

    Around 70% of the country's population (3.5 million) live in the Central Belt —a region stretching in a northeast-southwest orientation between the major cities of Edinburgh and Glasgow, and including the major settlements of Paisley, Stirling, Falkirk, Perth and Dundee
    So they are indeed. I just didn't think of them as in the central belt. Perth is certainly not in the Midland Valley (which is what I was taught about at school).

    What one really needs is an analysis which slices the distribution of population in Scotland vs England into slices and compares the result. An average density doesn't work for this sort of discussion.
    Or even an approach looking at each different area of the UK, where policy has been broadly aligned, to see what has worked, and what could have worked better, rather than setting Scotland and England up in a ridiculous competition.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    OT - Holy mackerel, hate to carp, but don't think Sturgeon is my kettle of fish,
  • Have we discussed this? :D

    Twitter link

    We can all do that!

    image
    Doesn't Johnson look young for a man in his mid eighties!

    That's what comes of never having to do a day's work in a lifetime.
    And he still achieved nothing in all those years
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Data on opening borders. In the Channel Islands Jersey has decided to re-open its borders with testing on arrival. They had expected to get about 1 in 7000 test positive. They've had 1 in the first 400.....Guernsey maintains mandatory 14 day self quarantine for all arrivals and is pilot testing mandatory self quarantine for 7 days followed by a COVID test on day 7 - that will catch ±85% of those who became infected in transit (testing on arrival catches 0% of those who were infected in transit).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448
  • Scott_xP said:

    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448

    Dom been let loose again, can somebody please catch him and return him to the front desk, Mummy and Daddy are worried
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448

    Based on that response it looks like the Sunday Times has been making stuff up again.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    America -- Dem Veep -- in the last few minutes, Kamala Harris has gone for a walk on Betfair, and Susan Rice has come in a point. No idea why. Earlier today the Duckworth fans were nibbling away.

    Personally think Susan Rice would be a BAD choice. Why? Because her extensive experience at NSA and UN would NOT be pluses, but the opposite - Americans are NOT focused on foreign affairs right now (even the trade war) and why would Dems want to make Libya & Syria campaign fodder for the GOP?

    Methinks there may be a large degree of misdirection by the Biden campaign re: VP pick - because there ALWAYS is at this stage of the selection process.
    Is there not the possibility that they could have a President concentrating on domestic affairs but a VP who has lots of international experience so can keep a weather eye on foreign affairs to make sure nothing catches them by surprise politically?
    You mean like the Cheney-Bush administration? Let's hope not!

    VPs should NOT have an independent role. At most should be high-level executive assistants. Like Biden was to Obama. IF that's not in the cards, then best they can do is to keep themselves in readiness to break ties in the Senate.

    Note that Calvin's Coolidge's VP, Charles G. Dawes, failed at this simple test. First he tried to lecture the senators and get them to shape up - they told him to put a sock in it. Then he failed to turn up to break a tie on confirmation of a key presidential nomination - and Silent Cal scratched CGD off his dance card, permanently.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448

    Based on that response it looks like the Sunday Times has been making stuff up again.
    I wonder if you'd be saying that if it was about Labour
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Data on opening borders. In the Channel Islands Jersey has decided to re-open its borders with testing on arrival. They had expected to get about 1 in 7000 test positive. They've had 1 in the first 400.....Guernsey maintains mandatory 14 day self quarantine for all arrivals and is pilot testing mandatory self quarantine for 7 days followed by a COVID test on day 7 - that will catch ±85% of those who became infected in transit (testing on arrival catches 0% of those who were infected in transit).

    Here situation in Sark is pretty stark. OR is it the other way around?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Tory MPs have certainly all been ordered to head down the nearest pub and get photoed with a socially distanced pint.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Pulpstar said:

    Tory MPs have certainly all been ordered to head down the nearest pub and get photoed with a socially distanced pint.

    I wonder if Sunak will go and buy another toaster.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448

    Based on that response it looks like the Sunday Times has been making stuff up again.
    "General Sir Patrick Sanders, who as Commander of Strategic Command is in charge of all the MoD’s special forces and intelligence units, “boasted” about his work on cyber-warfare but a source present said Cummings “shot him down in flames” leaving Sanders “humiliated”."

    This seems very specific to be made up.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    edited July 2020

    America -- Dem Veep -- in the last few minutes, Kamala Harris has gone for a walk on Betfair, and Susan Rice has come in a point. No idea why. Earlier today the Duckworth fans were nibbling away.

    Thanks. Rice clear 2nd fav

    Biden has good chemistry with Rice:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/505683-susan-rice-sees-stock-rise-in-biden-vp-race
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Based on that response it looks like the Sunday Times has been making stuff up again.

    Last time, Dom said it was not worthy of a response.

    Then gave a televised press conference where he confirmed the story.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448

    Based on that response it looks like the Sunday Times has been making stuff up again.
    "General Sir Patrick Sanders, who as Commander of Strategic Command is in charge of all the MoD’s special forces and intelligence units, “boasted” about his work on cyber-warfare but a source present said Cummings “shot him down in flames” leaving Sanders “humiliated”."

    This seems very specific to be made up.
    I'd guess the other way around, it's just specific enough and plays into what people loathe about Cummings to be a believable lie.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448

    Based on that response it looks like the Sunday Times has been making stuff up again.
    "General Sir Patrick Sanders, who as Commander of Strategic Command is in charge of all the MoD’s special forces and intelligence units, “boasted” about his work on cyber-warfare but a source present said Cummings “shot him down in flames” leaving Sanders “humiliated”."

    This seems very specific to be made up.
    But the response is equally specific. There were no meetings.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Have we discussed this? :D

    Twitter link

    We can all do that!

    image
    Doesn't Johnson look young for a man in his mid eighties!

    That's what comes of never having to do a day's work in a lifetime.
    And he still achieved nothing in all those years
    I disagree. Rejoining the EU was a master stroke after the economic after shock of the 10 year Covid-19 pandemic. And I find it so much easier
    abroad since we joined the Euro. I also believe the NHS is vastly improved now it is run by the Federal Government in Berlin. Perhaps the biggest and most pleasant surprise was when in 2024 he crossed the floor of the house to lead the Labour Party.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448

    Based on that response it looks like the Sunday Times has been making stuff up again.
    I wonder if you'd be saying that if it was about Labour
    I say it all the time about all papers. In case you forgot I am not a Johnson fan nor a Tory. So yes I would say exactly the same thing - and have in the past when papers printed stuff about Labour.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060

    Have we discussed this? :D

    Twitter link

    We can all do that!

    image
    Doesn't Johnson look young for a man in his mid eighties!

    That's what comes of never having to do a day's work in a lifetime.
    And he still achieved nothing in all those years
    I disagree. Rejoining the EU was a master stroke after the economic after shock of the 10 year Covid-19 pandemic. And I find it so much easier
    abroad since we joined the Euro. I also believe the NHS is vastly improved now it is run by the Federal Government in Berlin. Perhaps the biggest and most pleasant surprise was when in 2024 he crossed the floor of the house to lead the Labour Party.
    To be fair, the Alien invasion of Earth made people rethink their priorities.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tory MPs have certainly all been ordered to head down the nearest pub and get photoed with a socially distanced pint.

    I wonder if Sunak will go and buy another toaster.
    How many kitchens do you think he has?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    MaxPB said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Looks like the Sunday Times scored another palpable hit...

    https://twitter.com/Number10press/status/1279832383592808448

    Based on that response it looks like the Sunday Times has been making stuff up again.
    "General Sir Patrick Sanders, who as Commander of Strategic Command is in charge of all the MoD’s special forces and intelligence units, “boasted” about his work on cyber-warfare but a source present said Cummings “shot him down in flames” leaving Sanders “humiliated”."

    This seems very specific to be made up.
    I'd guess the other way around, it's just specific enough and plays into what people loathe about Cummings to be a believable lie.
    Check out precise wording of No. 10 media blog response. Plenty of wiggle room there.

    > ST claims Bew didn't know about plan; No. 10 response says he too part in discussions & attended meeting - which is NOT the same thing as saying he knew details of the final plan.

    > ST claims personal chemistry between Cummings & general was a disaster, and that the hack humiliated the brass hat; No. 10 response says no "meeting" took place and that "this entire account if false." - which is NOT the same as saying Cummings & Gen. Sanders never butted heads on the issue.

    In other words, denials sound like they were drafted by Sir Humphrey in old "Yes, Prime Minister" episode.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    CatMan said:

    Have we discussed this? :D

    Twitter link

    We can all do that!

    image
    Doesn't Johnson look young for a man in his mid eighties!

    That's what comes of never having to do a day's work in a lifetime.
    And he still achieved nothing in all those years
    I disagree. Rejoining the EU was a master stroke after the economic after shock of the 10 year Covid-19 pandemic. And I find it so much easier
    abroad since we joined the Euro. I also believe the NHS is vastly improved now it is run by the Federal Government in Berlin. Perhaps the biggest and most pleasant surprise was when in 2024 he crossed the floor of the house to lead the Labour Party.
    To be fair, the Alien invasion of Earth made people rethink their priorities.
    I was just happy for 25 years of non-Tory Government.
This discussion has been closed.