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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The latest ads from a campaign to turn Republicans against Tru

SystemSystem Posts: 12,053
edited June 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The latest ads from a campaign to turn Republicans against Trump

This one is particularly important because Senator Lindsay Graham has emerged as the main attack dog for Trump. It very much undermines what he is trying to do now as part of helping the President get re-elected.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,592
    edited June 2020
    E pluribus unum.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,592
    FPT
    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,592
    They are certainly better than 2016's NeverTrumpers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,652
    FPT
    eadric said:

    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    Robert Clive, outside the FCO.
    Yes, good call.
    Clive was India. BLM do not care about India.

    A more plausible target would surely be Charles Gordon on the Embankment, although there would be a certain irony in that given he at least temporarily disrupted slaving in Sudan and the Horn of Africa.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,545

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    I suspect we are more or less done with the statues. I'd be surprised if we ever get to double figures. The point has been made (and the statues were never the point anyway).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,652
    edited June 2020

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    It’s ironic that the two presumed great champions of Parliamentary democracy in England - Simon de Montfort and Cromwell - were also both genocidal nutters.

    There’s also something of an irony in that having fought a vicious war to impose Parliament on the king, once getting to power they both sidelined it to arrogate power to themselves.

    Who could we have as a Parliamentary champion untainted by slaving? Disraeli perhaps, as the author of the Second Reform Act? But even he made some pretty unpleasant remarks about the Irish.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,481
    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,602
    Manchester City penalty but on the bright side for Arsenal David Luiz is sent off.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,023

    Manchester City penalty but on the bright side for Arsenal David Luiz is sent off.

    He should **** off and join the Tories.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,652
    eadric said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    I suspect we are more or less done with the statues. I'd be surprised if we ever get to double figures. The point has been made (and the statues were never the point anyway).
    I hope you're right but I think you are wrong. When you feed a mob it is like feeding a fire, the mob just grows and gets hungrier.

    The mad iconoclastic Left is on a roll. Why should they stop now?
    Because the weather’s turned bad.

    And on that note, I’m off to bed.

    Good night.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    I suspect we are more or less done with the statues. I'd be surprised if we ever get to double figures. The point has been made (and the statues were never the point anyway).
    I hope you're right but I think you are wrong. When you feed a mob it is like feeding a fire, the mob just grows and gets hungrier.

    The mad iconoclastic Left is on a roll. Why should they stop now?
    Didn't you say all this in 2017 When they were taking down racist statues in America post-Charlottesville?
  • eadric said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    I suspect we are more or less done with the statues. I'd be surprised if we ever get to double figures. The point has been made (and the statues were never the point anyway).
    I hope you're right but I think you are wrong. When you feed a mob it is like feeding a fire, the mob just grows and gets hungrier.

    The mad iconoclastic Left is on a roll. Why should they stop now?
    The right may have won the election but the left have long since won the culture war. The floodgates are now open and there is no stopping this.

    The starters have only just been consumed, it’s main course next.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,773
    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    No, far from erasing history the movement has made for more discussion of slavery than any time in my life.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,481

    Manchester City penalty but on the bright side for Arsenal David Luiz is sent off.

    A good night for Tottenham so far (aided by a temporarily blinded Hawkeye in the first game)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Manchester City penalty but on the bright side for Arsenal David Luiz is sent off.

    Who will play centre-forward now?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,023
    My fantasy team is having a blinder.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    tlg86 said:

    My fantasy team is having a blinder.

    The person who picked my fantasy team was blind.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,096
    edited June 2020

    eadric said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    I suspect we are more or less done with the statues. I'd be surprised if we ever get to double figures. The point has been made (and the statues were never the point anyway).
    I hope you're right but I think you are wrong. When you feed a mob it is like feeding a fire, the mob just grows and gets hungrier.

    The mad iconoclastic Left is on a roll. Why should they stop now?
    The right may have won the election but the left have long since won the culture war. The floodgates are now open and there is no stopping this.

    The starters have only just been consumed, it’s main course next.
    Have they? They may have done on gay rights, divorce and abortion, they certainly have not on uncontrolled immigration, or erasing patriotism and national sovereignty etc.

    If they go too far then the right will respond with rightwing populists in response and Boris and Trump and Salvini, Tony Abbott, Bolsonaro, even Le Pen etc will become the norm for the leadership of the western right if the centre right establishment is seen as too weak to stand up to extreme wokeism
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,773

    Manchester City penalty but on the bright side for Arsenal David Luiz is sent off.

    Arsenal haven't done anything all game. Pisspoor as they were in March.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    No, far from erasing history the movement has made for more discussion of slavery than any time in my life.
    Because you were unable to discuss slavery before its monuments were destroyed?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    It’s ironic that the two presumed great champions of Parliamentary democracy in England - Simon de Montfort and Cromwell - were also both genocidal nutters.

    There’s also something of an irony in that having fought a vicious war to impose Parliament on the king, once getting to power they both sidelined it to arrogate power to themselves.

    Who could we have as a Parliamentary champion untainted by slaving? Disraeli perhaps, as the author of the Second Reform Act? But even he made some pretty unpleasant remarks about the Irish.
    Speaker Lenthall
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,396

    eadric said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    I suspect we are more or less done with the statues. I'd be surprised if we ever get to double figures. The point has been made (and the statues were never the point anyway).
    I hope you're right but I think you are wrong. When you feed a mob it is like feeding a fire, the mob just grows and gets hungrier.

    The mad iconoclastic Left is on a roll. Why should they stop now?
    The right may have won the election but the left have long since won the culture war. The floodgates are now open and there is no stopping this.

    The starters have only just been consumed, it’s main course next.
    Tommy Robinson MP?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,589
    FPT:

    eadric said:

    MattW said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    So are they also getting rid of the Rhodes scholars?

    https://twitter.com/CamillaTominey/status/1273330482550276098

    Whose decision is it, exactly?
    Well, it's their college so the Governing Body has the final say, especially as Oxford Council has no objection. But if they really wanted to take it down, they'd do so immediately without waiting for the outcome of the inquiry, so I imagine they're hoping that something will come up that will, on balance, cause the inquiry to recommend retention.

    Arse-covering on an epic scale, in other words.
    My understanding is that they are taking it down, and the enquiry is into the scholarship.

    Am I wrong in that?
    That doesn't seem to be what their letter indicates. Although the whole thing is vague and weaselly:

    https://twitter.com/ewansomerville/status/1273329722580238343
    They really are rather lacking in guts.
    Who can blame them when the Johnson government allows them to twist in the wind, as opposed to providing a firm lead.
    Getting views from lots of interested bodies, having an impartial expert evaluate the decision the Governing Body have made... sounds like due process to me.

    And the problem with removing statues was a lack of due process, wasn't it?

    (Was at the Better Place, myself)
    What now happens to all those colleges named after Medieval Robber Barons and Nobles? Let's hope they were all purer than the driven snow by 21st Century currently fashionable values?

    I suppose that Oxford Uni has created a huge majority of recent PMs, so the values are consonant.
    Well quite. Having been at a part of the Better Place whose founders had more sense than to name themselves after a single benefactor (and have been, by Oxbridge standards, church mouse frugal throughout their existence), I'd like to offer these observations.

    Yes, if you have made a fortune in a bad way, it's right to seek redemption by doing good with your ill-gotten riches. But the classy thing to do is to sink (or slink) into the background.

    Name the scholarship after your aunt, your mother's maiden name, or your favourite saint. Otherwise you're still trying to justify yourself, and that's not classy.

    Have a portrait in Hall, or better still in a corridor. Have the chapel choir sing prayers for the (hopefully only slightly uncomfortable) repose of your soul. But don't expect people to walk under a statue of you on a regular basis, just because some of your riches are supporting their studies. That's not polite.

    American Confederate statues, Edward Colston... the statues generally came long after the death of the people they commemorate. Bluntly, they've always been fairly unpleasant power moves. And smart conservatives in history have always recognised that reform is better than revolution. Wokeism may be embarrassing, and I won't try to justify all of it. But if people can't show the manners or empathy to think that the hurt caused to living people by statues of slave traders might be a problem, they can't be shocked if there's an overreaction.
    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/
    But that's the dumbmness of the "Save All Statues" argument.

    If Oriel had said years ago, "We appreciate the hurt, so we are having a long conversation with the intention of moving the statue to a respectful place in the Master's Garden", it would have cut off the issue. It's the attempt to appear strong by not yielding at all that's given the issue legs.

    Embrace the rebels to squash the rebellion.

    Reform not revolution.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,481
    Foxy said:

    Manchester City penalty but on the bright side for Arsenal David Luiz is sent off.

    Arsenal haven't done anything all game. Pisspoor as they were in March.
    They look absolutely awful
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020
    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people


    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1273318460265766912?s=20

    Remember - that huge chanting mob following him are the 'righteous' ones...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,023

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1273318460265766912?s=20

    Remember - that huge chanting mob following him are the righteous ones...
    It looks like something from The Life of Brian.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,773

    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    No, far from erasing history the movement has made for more discussion of slavery than any time in my life.
    Because you were unable to discuss slavery before its monuments were destroyed?
    Not destroyed, merely removed. Never has there been such widespread discussion of our role in the history of the slave trade. Far from burying that history, we are turning on the searchlight.
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJgTX-QNtjM#t=15s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA#t=12s
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    Especially when it's Biden

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1b8Hpgkw4A
  • SurreySurrey Posts: 190
    edited June 2020

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    Those videos don't mock Trump. He himself has mocked both illness and disability:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJgTX-QNtjM#t=15s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA#t=12s
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,639
    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,851
    @Cyclefree has some heavyweight support:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/17/lockdown-beer-firms-warn-boris-johnson-sales-confusion-reopening-uk-jobs
    ... Hundreds of pubs could shut for ever unless Boris Johnson decides in the next 48 hours when they can reopen, the UK’s largest beer companies have warned.

    In an open letter to the prime minister, more than 50 companies said plummeting beer sales and prolonged uncertainty had brought the pub and brewing industry to “a moment of maximum jeopardy” that could cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    The signatories – from global giants such as the Guinness owner Diageo to family brewers such as Adnam’s – urged Johnson to say by Friday whether the government would allow pubs to reopen from 4 July....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,396

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    I know we all said this four years ago, but this is undoubtedly going to be the ugliest, dirtiest and most negative presidential campaign in history.

    No-one appears to have anything positive to say at all, we have five months more of this to come.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,481
    MrEd said:

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    Especially when it's Biden

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1b8Hpgkw4A
    I asked you earlier who you wanted to win the US election.

    I don’t think I received an answer.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,589
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    It’s ironic that the two presumed great champions of Parliamentary democracy in England - Simon de Montfort and Cromwell - were also both genocidal nutters.

    There’s also something of an irony in that having fought a vicious war to impose Parliament on the king, once getting to power they both sidelined it to arrogate power to themselves.

    Who could we have as a Parliamentary champion untainted by slaving? Disraeli perhaps, as the author of the Second Reform Act? But even he made some pretty unpleasant remarks about the Irish.
    Funnily enough, I used to live in St Ives, which ended up with a statue of Cromwell after Huntingdon decided it didn't want one.

    Thomas Carlyle's comments (grabbed from Wikipedia, but originally in a letter proposing the statue) seem relevant to the whole statue debate:

    "My private suspicion I confess is that the present generation of Englishmen—who have filled their towns with such a set of "public statues" as were never before erected by any people, ugly brazen images (to mere commonplace adventurers with titles on them, and even sometimes to mere paltry scoundrels, worthy of immediate oblivion only)..."
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    No, far from erasing history the movement has made for more discussion of slavery than any time in my life.
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    No, far from erasing history the movement has made for more discussion of slavery than any time in my life.
    Because you were unable to discuss slavery before its monuments were destroyed?
    Not destroyed, merely removed. Never has there been such widespread discussion of our role in the history of the slave trade. Far from burying that history, we are turning on the searchlight.
    Not a search light that needed turning, really. I am astonished by the amount of ignorance of this country's history laid bare in recent weeks, best highlighted by ludicrous comparisons between slavers and Jimmy Savile, as if the Royal Africa Company operated in secret and illegally.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,481
    Surrey said:

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    Those videos don't mock Trump. He himself has mocked both illness and disability:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJgTX-QNtjM#t=15s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA#t=12s
    Yes, he is a poisonous moron. His opponents shouldn’t stoop to his level.

    Health is off limits.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,382

    Surrey said:

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    Those videos don't mock Trump. He himself has mocked both illness and disability:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJgTX-QNtjM#t=15s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA#t=12s
    Yes, he is a poisonous moron. His opponents shouldn’t stoop to his level.

    Health is off limits.
    Surely health has always been a legitimate factor when electing presidents?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,521
    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people


    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1273318460265766912?s=20

    Your mob was always about going after people.

    https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/1273237832488890368?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,851
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    No, far from erasing history the movement has made for more discussion of slavery than any time in my life.
    Because you were unable to discuss slavery before its monuments were destroyed?
    Not destroyed, merely removed. Never has there been such widespread discussion of our role in the history of the slave trade. Far from burying that history, we are turning on the searchlight.
    Indeed.
    Whatever the right and wrongs of statues - and quite frankly I don’t care all that much either way; we are not the US - history is not going to be erased.

    Certain aspects less celebrated, or no longer glossed over, perhaps.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,954
    Alistair said:

    tlg86 said:

    My fantasy team is having a blinder.

    The person who picked my fantasy team was blind.
    It seems only only one of my rivals picked up on the double game week😄
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    That would be true if the Tories had a backbone, but they do not. They are terrified of the Woke Gestapo.

    Nigel Farage is probably grinning with delight right now, somewhere in darkest Surrey, as he dreams up a name for his new party

    Johnson is gone next year would be my bet. The MPs - where the base has shifted radically from traditional Tory types to favouring Red Wall interests - will want someone to stand up to the mob. That's why I think Priti Patel is the better bet for next Cons leader / PM ahead of Rishi Sunak.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,481
    edited June 2020

    Surrey said:

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    Those videos don't mock Trump. He himself has mocked both illness and disability:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJgTX-QNtjM#t=15s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA#t=12s
    Yes, he is a poisonous moron. His opponents shouldn’t stoop to his level.

    Health is off limits.
    Surely health has always been a legitimate factor when electing presidents?
    Maybe. I just found the ad tasteless. That said, I don’t watch many campaign ads. Maybe they are all like that!

    I certainly wouldn’t want to see ads of that ilk in the UK.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,382
    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    It's only a couple of weeks ago we were being told how the BLM protests in the US were going to carry Trump back into the White House.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,657
    MrEd said:


    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024

    It's ephemeral and will be forgotten before long.

    Compared to Covid-19 and the economic consequences, it's not even worth being called chip paper.

    To be fair, Conservative supporters need every bit of encouragement they can find in the next few months and years. It's going to be a painful, humiliating and tortuous route to their final defeat in 2024 - let's get in the popcorn.
  • Can't harm the Starmer!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,096
    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    That would be true if the Tories had a backbone, but they do not. They are terrified of the Woke Gestapo.

    Nigel Farage is probably grinning with delight right now, somewhere in darkest Surrey, as he dreams up a name for his new party

    Are they? Boris stood firmly behind keeping the Churchill statue up for instance and Tory members are fully opposed to wokeism and they elect the Tory leader
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,481
    Nigelb said:

    @Cyclefree has some heavyweight support:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/17/lockdown-beer-firms-warn-boris-johnson-sales-confusion-reopening-uk-jobs
    ... Hundreds of pubs could shut for ever unless Boris Johnson decides in the next 48 hours when they can reopen, the UK’s largest beer companies have warned.

    In an open letter to the prime minister, more than 50 companies said plummeting beer sales and prolonged uncertainty had brought the pub and brewing industry to “a moment of maximum jeopardy” that could cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    The signatories – from global giants such as the Guinness owner Diageo to family brewers such as Adnam’s – urged Johnson to say by Friday whether the government would allow pubs to reopen from 4 July....

    Yup. Tomorrow night would be good.

    Someone told me that the hospitality sector is expecting an announcement tomorrow; let’s hope this letter is timed to align with that.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,254

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    I dislike them too but apparently they work. The money they cost, they have to, and of course both sides indulge without restraint.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,096
    stodge said:

    MrEd said:


    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024

    It's ephemeral and will be forgotten before long.

    Compared to Covid-19 and the economic consequences, it's not even worth being called chip paper.

    To be fair, Conservative supporters need every bit of encouragement they can find in the next few months and years. It's going to be a painful, humiliating and tortuous route to their final defeat in 2024 - let's get in the popcorn.
    The Tories 2019 vote remains rock solid, these events just reinforce that, the only movement has been LD to Labour
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,481

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    It's only a couple of weeks ago we were being told how the BLM protests in the US were going to carry Trump back into the White House.
    Indeed.

    Funny old world.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,851

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    I dislike them too but apparently they work. The money they cost, they have to, and of course both sides indulge without restraint.
    I preferred the more understated ‘vote Biden; he can walk and drink water’ ad.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people


    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1273318460265766912?s=20

    Chris Rose is a fan of Hitchens
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,096

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    It's only a couple of weeks ago we were being told how the BLM protests in the US were going to carry Trump back into the White House.
    We will find out in November, the 1968 radical left riots at the Democratic convention destroyed the campaign chances of the moderate, decent Vice President Humphrey and gave Nixon a narrow victory on a law and order platform
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,609
    ? undermines ?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,534
    "Two of the UK's biggest companies have pledged to pay large sums to black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) communities after their roles in the slave trade were highlighted in a major academic database.

    Greene King, one of the UK's largest pub chains, and Lloyd's of London, one of the world's biggest insurance firms, both said they would make payments.

    The payments mark the first time the controversy over the UK's past involvement with slavery, which has led to statues being torn down, has impacted the corporate sector."
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/17/companies-britain-linked-slave-trade-say-today/
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people


    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1273318460265766912?s=20

    Chris Rose is a fan of Hitchens
    Fantastic from Hitchens.

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1273315147004641280?s=20
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited June 2020

    Can't harm the Starmer!

    Well, quite. Androids don't feel much at all:

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1272984874195050498
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,385

    Yup. Tomorrow night would be good.

    Someone told me that the hospitality sector is expecting an announcement tomorrow; let’s hope this letter is timed to align with that.

    Another decision BoZo has to be goaded into by public outcry.

    What a leader...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,523

    Nigelb said:

    @Cyclefree has some heavyweight support:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/17/lockdown-beer-firms-warn-boris-johnson-sales-confusion-reopening-uk-jobs
    ... Hundreds of pubs could shut for ever unless Boris Johnson decides in the next 48 hours when they can reopen, the UK’s largest beer companies have warned.

    In an open letter to the prime minister, more than 50 companies said plummeting beer sales and prolonged uncertainty had brought the pub and brewing industry to “a moment of maximum jeopardy” that could cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    The signatories – from global giants such as the Guinness owner Diageo to family brewers such as Adnam’s – urged Johnson to say by Friday whether the government would allow pubs to reopen from 4 July....

    Yup. Tomorrow night would be good.

    Someone told me that the hospitality sector is expecting an announcement tomorrow; let’s hope this letter is timed to align with that.
    Far more than 100s closing I would say unless they sort this out. There are roughly 50K pubs. More than 1% are going to close. Way more I would guess.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,773

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    It's only a couple of weeks ago we were being told how the BLM protests in the US were going to carry Trump back into the White House.
    Young Conservative voters are few, but in terms of PC values, closer to young Lab voters. It is an age interest more than a right/left one.

    https://twitter.com/sophgaston/status/1272525523583934466?s=09
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Can't harm the Starmer!

    Well, quite. Androids don't feel much at all:

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1272984874195050498
    They missed a label: "COMPETENT"
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,589
    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    That would be true if the Tories had a backbone, but they do not. They are terrified of the Woke Gestapo.

    Nigel Farage is probably grinning with delight right now, somewhere in darkest Surrey, as he dreams up a name for his new party

    Johnson is gone next year would be my bet. The MPs - where the base has shifted radically from traditional Tory types to favouring Red Wall interests - will want someone to stand up to the mob. That's why I think Priti Patel is the better bet for next Cons leader / PM ahead of Rishi Sunak.
    I agree Johnson goes next year. Not sure about Patel. Sunak seems likelier.
    I think you're right about Boris; if anything, the risk is on him going earlier. He's not well, he's not doing well and he has always enjoyed the pursuit more than the possession. He's found a way of surviving PMQs; if it hadn't been for that, I could imagine him stomping off in a sulk because everyone is being so mean to him.

    As for his successor; the next few years are likely to be a bit of a mess. Government is going to be difficult and Boris and Brexit-in-the-abstract are the only things holding the Conservative party and vote together right now. On top of that, there's the Covid fallout.

    So if I were young, smart and ambitious, I might look to hold back for now. Take over after the defeat in 2024, be PM in 2029. It might be a nice job by then. So not Sunak as king, though maybe as kingmaker.

    But someone has to take over. They need to be competent enough, ambitious enough and realising that it's now or never. Why doesn't that point to M. Gove?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,773
    Scott_xP said:

    Yup. Tomorrow night would be good.

    Someone told me that the hospitality sector is expecting an announcement tomorrow; let’s hope this letter is timed to align with that.

    Another decision BoZo has to be goaded into by public outcry.

    What a leader...
    It seems a bit odd for him. Perhaps he drinks alone rather than in company.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,523
    On Veep betting, Susan Rice has dipped a little to 8.6
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,233

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    Of course, Cromwell let the Jews back into England, so I can see why Ken Livingston and Jeremy Cromwell might support the toppling of his statues.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,523

    Surrey said:

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    Those videos don't mock Trump. He himself has mocked both illness and disability:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJgTX-QNtjM#t=15s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA#t=12s
    Yes, he is a poisonous moron. His opponents shouldn’t stoop to his level.

    Health is off limits.
    If you think anything is off limits in this coming election, then you are in for a shock.

    This is going to be the most brutal we have ever seen I reckon.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,233
    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    James II was a bit embarrassing. The man couldn't even manage to have attractive courtesans, and he was the king.

    That's pretty shit, and hardly embodies the spirit of country we're trying to promote.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,521
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people


    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1273318460265766912?s=20

    Your mob was always about going after people.

    https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/1273237832488890368?s=20
    Jeez. The woman was treated so badly she has decided to use font size 0.0003, meaning this distressing account of her appalling treatment can only be read by ants
    This big enough for your weary old peepers, sport?

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1273357759090765830?s=20

    'Today’s organised demonstration by Glasgow No Evictions Campaign, in support of asylum seekers currently living in temporary accommodation in Glasgow and their demands was attended by at least 80 people, holding placards and peacefully demonstrating in solidarity.

    The asylum seekers are demanding to go back to their flats. They are also demanding the immediate reinstatement of their financial support which has been entirely cut by the state, as well as an improvement in the quality of their food for the duration of their stay in temporary accommodation.

    In response to this demonstration, neo-nazi group National Defence League (NDL) held a counter demonstration under the premise of defending the statues of George Square. They issued a call out for one hour before the Glasgow No Evictions demonstration. Approximately 250 neo-nazis and loyalists assembled at the square.

    It is important to note the Glasgow No Evictions Campaign never mentioned any intent to attack statues or any other structures- the demonstration was entirely peaceful and in solidarity with struggling asylum seekers. The mobilisation of neo-nazis against this event, on the pretext of defending statues, should therefore be seen as an attempt to exploit the situation to spread disinformation and influence more people.'

  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,254
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    Of course, Cromwell let the Jews back into England, so I can see why Ken Livingston and Jeremy Cromwell might support the toppling of his statues.
    You mean of course that well known roundhead Jeremy Corbyn.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    geoffw said:

    "Two of the UK's biggest companies have pledged to pay large sums to black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) communities after their roles in the slave trade were highlighted in a major academic database.

    Greene King, one of the UK's largest pub chains, and Lloyd's of London, one of the world's biggest insurance firms, both said they would make payments.

    The payments mark the first time the controversy over the UK's past involvement with slavery, which has led to statues being torn down, has impacted the corporate sector."
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/17/companies-britain-linked-slave-trade-say-today/

    The Telegraph thinks Lloyd's is an "insurance firm?" Dear me.

    I wonder whether any of the London banking houses with old enough roots are considering their position.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Toms said:

    Can't harm the Starmer!

    Well, quite. Androids don't feel much at all:

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1272984874195050498
    They missed a label: "COMPETENT"
    Cos he isn't. Boris's new tactic of bullying him is disgusting but highly effective.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,382

    Nigelb said:

    @Cyclefree has some heavyweight support:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/17/lockdown-beer-firms-warn-boris-johnson-sales-confusion-reopening-uk-jobs
    ... Hundreds of pubs could shut for ever unless Boris Johnson decides in the next 48 hours when they can reopen, the UK’s largest beer companies have warned.

    In an open letter to the prime minister, more than 50 companies said plummeting beer sales and prolonged uncertainty had brought the pub and brewing industry to “a moment of maximum jeopardy” that could cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    The signatories – from global giants such as the Guinness owner Diageo to family brewers such as Adnam’s – urged Johnson to say by Friday whether the government would allow pubs to reopen from 4 July....

    Yup. Tomorrow night would be good.

    Someone told me that the hospitality sector is expecting an announcement tomorrow; let’s hope this letter is timed to align with that.
    Far more than 100s closing I would say unless they sort this out. There are roughly 50K pubs. More than 1% are going to close. Way more I would guess.
    There needs to be something special to help pubs, cafes and restaurants.

    Announcing that they can re-open from 4th of July would be a start - further funding if that is not safe to do yet.

    Pubs are an intrinsic part of the culture of this country - some medium term structural support would be appropriate. How about the removal of excise duty on alcohol sold in pubs and bars?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,523
    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1273355285718016001/photo/1

    Meanwhile in Germany...

    App up and running. Apple/Google os based.

    What a shower our lot are. Pathetically predictable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,773

    Nigelb said:

    @Cyclefree has some heavyweight support:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/17/lockdown-beer-firms-warn-boris-johnson-sales-confusion-reopening-uk-jobs
    ... Hundreds of pubs could shut for ever unless Boris Johnson decides in the next 48 hours when they can reopen, the UK’s largest beer companies have warned.

    In an open letter to the prime minister, more than 50 companies said plummeting beer sales and prolonged uncertainty had brought the pub and brewing industry to “a moment of maximum jeopardy” that could cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    The signatories – from global giants such as the Guinness owner Diageo to family brewers such as Adnam’s – urged Johnson to say by Friday whether the government would allow pubs to reopen from 4 July....

    Yup. Tomorrow night would be good.

    Someone told me that the hospitality sector is expecting an announcement tomorrow; let’s hope this letter is timed to align with that.
    Far more than 100s closing I would say unless they sort this out. There are roughly 50K pubs. More than 1% are going to close. Way more I would guess.
    A lot of pubs have been getting quiet for years. It wouldn't surprise me if half never reopen. Apart from a few city centre places, we just don't have much of a pub culture anymore.

    Chillaxing with a glass of Sauvignon Blanc and Netflix is the modern way.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,521
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    Of course, Cromwell let the Jews back into England, so I can see why Ken Livingston and Jeremy Cromwell might support the toppling of his statues.
    Jeremy Cromwell, a scintillating combo of jam-making socialism and terrible POTUS tipping.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,577

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1273355285718016001/photo/1

    Meanwhile in Germany...

    App up and running. Apple/Google os based.

    What a shower our lot are. Pathetically predictable.

    Any idea what the cause of the delay is? That's six months!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    James II was a bit embarrassing. The man couldn't even manage to have attractive courtesans, and he was the king.

    That's pretty shit, and hardly embodies the spirit of country we're trying to promote.
    Plus he WAS a slave trader. He was Colston's boss at the Royal Africa Company (and not just in an honorary patron sort of way).

    I feel sorry for him though. He fathered 4 little Dukes of Cambridge and none of them made it past 3.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,523
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    @Cyclefree has some heavyweight support:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/17/lockdown-beer-firms-warn-boris-johnson-sales-confusion-reopening-uk-jobs
    ... Hundreds of pubs could shut for ever unless Boris Johnson decides in the next 48 hours when they can reopen, the UK’s largest beer companies have warned.

    In an open letter to the prime minister, more than 50 companies said plummeting beer sales and prolonged uncertainty had brought the pub and brewing industry to “a moment of maximum jeopardy” that could cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    The signatories – from global giants such as the Guinness owner Diageo to family brewers such as Adnam’s – urged Johnson to say by Friday whether the government would allow pubs to reopen from 4 July....

    Yup. Tomorrow night would be good.

    Someone told me that the hospitality sector is expecting an announcement tomorrow; let’s hope this letter is timed to align with that.
    Far more than 100s closing I would say unless they sort this out. There are roughly 50K pubs. More than 1% are going to close. Way more I would guess.
    A lot of pubs have been getting quiet for years. It wouldn't surprise me if half never reopen. Apart from a few city centre places, we just don't have much of a pub culture anymore.

    Chillaxing with a glass of Sauvignon Blanc and Netflix is the modern way.
    I would say most of those within walking distance of my house were already in a pretty bad way, on the edge, before this struck. There are a couple that will make it I reckon, maybe one or two others. The rest gone, sadly.

    I have done my best over the years :smiley:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,096
    edited June 2020

    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    That would be true if the Tories had a backbone, but they do not. They are terrified of the Woke Gestapo.

    Nigel Farage is probably grinning with delight right now, somewhere in darkest Surrey, as he dreams up a name for his new party

    Johnson is gone next year would be my bet. The MPs - where the base has shifted radically from traditional Tory types to favouring Red Wall interests - will want someone to stand up to the mob. That's why I think Priti Patel is the better bet for next Cons leader / PM ahead of Rishi Sunak.
    I agree Johnson goes next year. Not sure about Patel. Sunak seems likelier.
    I think you're right about Boris; if anything, the risk is on him going earlier. He's not well, he's not doing well and he has always enjoyed the pursuit more than the possession. He's found a way of surviving PMQs; if it hadn't been for that, I could imagine him stomping off in a sulk because everyone is being so mean to him.

    As for his successor; the next few years are likely to be a bit of a mess. Government is going to be difficult and Boris and Brexit-in-the-abstract are the only things holding the Conservative party and vote together right now. On top of that, there's the Covid fallout.

    So if I were young, smart and ambitious, I might look to hold back for now. Take over after the defeat in 2024, be PM in 2029. It might be a nice job by then. So not Sunak as king, though maybe as kingmaker.

    But someone has to take over. They need to be competent enough, ambitious enough and realising that it's now or never. Why doesn't that point to M. Gove?
    If the Tories replace Boris, their most successful election winner since Thatcher and who still leads the polls with Gove, who makes cockroaches look popular, they would be insane
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    IshmaelZ said:

    geoffw said:

    "Two of the UK's biggest companies have pledged to pay large sums to black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) communities after their roles in the slave trade were highlighted in a major academic database.

    Greene King, one of the UK's largest pub chains, and Lloyd's of London, one of the world's biggest insurance firms, both said they would make payments.

    The payments mark the first time the controversy over the UK's past involvement with slavery, which has led to statues being torn down, has impacted the corporate sector."
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/17/companies-britain-linked-slave-trade-say-today/

    The Telegraph thinks Lloyd's is an "insurance firm?" Dear me.

    I wonder whether any of the London banking houses with old enough roots are considering their position.
    You could try checking Wiki

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Hoare_Jr
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    It's only a couple of weeks ago we were being told how the BLM protests in the US were going to carry Trump back into the White House.
    Well, it's not November

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    It's only a couple of weeks ago we were being told how the BLM protests in the US were going to carry Trump back into the White House.
    Well, personal view is that I think it will re BLM. We haven't had the vote yet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,096
    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    It's only a couple of weeks ago we were being told how the BLM protests in the US were going to carry Trump back into the White House.
    Young Conservative voters are few, but in terms of PC values, closer to young Lab voters. It is an age interest more than a right/left one.

    https://twitter.com/sophgaston/status/1272525523583934466?s=09
    A vague statement which means nothing, even under 30s opposed taking Churchill's statue down
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,130
    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    No, far from erasing history the movement has made for more discussion of slavery than any time in my life.
    Yes and this movement has changed attitudes. It's amazing to see the change in US attitudes vs a year or two ago.

    I haven't seen much comparable polling from UK, but it does feel now like things like taking down statues of racists now command public support, when it wouldn't have done before.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,385
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,096
    IshmaelZ said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    James II was a bit embarrassing. The man couldn't even manage to have attractive courtesans, and he was the king.

    That's pretty shit, and hardly embodies the spirit of country we're trying to promote.
    Plus he WAS a slave trader. He was Colston's boss at the Royal Africa Company (and not just in an honorary patron sort of way).

    I feel sorry for him though. He fathered 4 little Dukes of Cambridge and none of them made it past 3.
    He also would have led a united Catholic Ireland had he won the Battle of the Boyne, hence the DUP hate him
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    geoffw said:

    "Two of the UK's biggest companies have pledged to pay large sums to black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) communities after their roles in the slave trade were highlighted in a major academic database.

    Greene King, one of the UK's largest pub chains, and Lloyd's of London, one of the world's biggest insurance firms, both said they would make payments.

    The payments mark the first time the controversy over the UK's past involvement with slavery, which has led to statues being torn down, has impacted the corporate sector."
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/17/companies-britain-linked-slave-trade-say-today/

    The Telegraph thinks Lloyd's is an "insurance firm?" Dear me.

    I wonder whether any of the London banking houses with old enough roots are considering their position.
    You could try checking Wiki

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Hoare_Jr
    Finding this claim about him elsewhere

    "My great-great-great-great grand-father was a Quaker banker named Samuel Hoare (1751-1825). As a footnote, he was nothing to do with the well-known 18th and 19th century Hoare’s Bank – that was another family entirely. No, Sam Hoare was a banker, but he was also a Quaker and in those days people were less inclined to trust their money to any old bank, as they do today."

    https://pryorfrancis.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/the-slave-trade-beginning-the-end/
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    I never thought I’d say this but that ad makes me feel sorry for the odious Trumpton.

    There are an almost infinite amount of attack lines. Attacking someone on health grounds sets a very dangerous, unethical precedent I think

    Especially when it's Biden

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1b8Hpgkw4A
    I asked you earlier who you wanted to win the US election.

    I don’t think I received an answer.
    Sorry Anabobazina, I was away from the computer for hours. It wasn't deliberate.

    Trump over Biden. I think Biden is very weak and not suited to dealing with the challenges the US faces. If it was Warren vs Trump, that would be a closer call.

    Do I get mobs round my house and calls for my employer to sack me because of that?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,762
    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    It's only a couple of weeks ago we were being told how the BLM protests in the US were going to carry Trump back into the White House.
    Young Conservative voters are few, but in terms of PC values, closer to young Lab voters. It is an age interest more than a right/left one.

    https://twitter.com/sophgaston/status/1272525523583934466?s=09
    People change their minds when they turn 40.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,521
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people


    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1273318460265766912?s=20

    Your mob was always about going after people.

    https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/1273237832488890368?s=20
    Jeez. The woman was treated so badly she has decided to use font size 0.0003, meaning this distressing account of her appalling treatment can only be read by ants
    This big enough for your weary old peepers, sport?

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1273357759090765830?s=20

    'Today’s organised demonstration by Glasgow No Evictions Campaign, in support of asylum seekers currently living in temporary accommodation in Glasgow and their demands was attended by at least 80 people, holding placards and peacefully demonstrating in solidarity.

    The asylum seekers are demanding to go back to their flats. They are also demanding the immediate reinstatement of their financial support which has been entirely cut by the state, as well as an improvement in the quality of their food for the duration of their stay in temporary accommodation.

    In response to this demonstration, neo-nazi group National Defence League (NDL) held a counter demonstration under the premise of defending the statues of George Square. They issued a call out for one hour before the Glasgow No Evictions demonstration. Approximately 250 neo-nazis and loyalists assembled at the square.

    It is important to note the Glasgow No Evictions Campaign never mentioned any intent to attack statues or any other structures- the demonstration was entirely peaceful and in solidarity with struggling asylum seekers. The mobilisation of neo-nazis against this event, on the pretext of defending statues, should therefore be seen as an attempt to exploit the situation to spread disinformation and influence more people.'

    I refuse to read anything by bellacaledonia on principle. Ethnofascist drivel is not my thing, tho it clearly pleases you
    'Do NOT make me look in a mirror.'
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,116
    edited June 2020

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    eadric said:

    Shall we cheer ourselves up with a gentleman's (or gentlewoman's) sweepstake on Which Statue Will Be Next


    I'm going for Kitchener. Or maybe Cromwell

    I will defend Cromwell's statues.

    He put those arrogant monarchs in their place and gave us parliamentary supremacy.

    All democrats should be positively tumescent about Cromwell.
    Of course, Cromwell let the Jews back into England, so I can see why Ken Livingston and Jeremy Cromwell might support the toppling of his statues.
    Jeremy Cromwell, a scintillating combo of jam-making socialism and terrible POTUS tipping.
    Jeremy Cromwell?

    Zefram Cock-up!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people


    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1273318460265766912?s=20

    Your mob was always about going after people.

    https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/1273237832488890368?s=20
    Jeez. The woman was treated so badly she has decided to use font size 0.0003, meaning this distressing account of her appalling treatment can only be read by ants
    This big enough for your weary old peepers, sport?

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1273357759090765830?s=20

    'Today’s organised demonstration by Glasgow No Evictions Campaign, in support of asylum seekers currently living in temporary accommodation in Glasgow and their demands was attended by at least 80 people, holding placards and peacefully demonstrating in solidarity.

    The asylum seekers are demanding to go back to their flats. They are also demanding the immediate reinstatement of their financial support which has been entirely cut by the state, as well as an improvement in the quality of their food for the duration of their stay in temporary accommodation.

    In response to this demonstration, neo-nazi group National Defence League (NDL) held a counter demonstration under the premise of defending the statues of George Square. They issued a call out for one hour before the Glasgow No Evictions demonstration. Approximately 250 neo-nazis and loyalists assembled at the square.

    It is important to note the Glasgow No Evictions Campaign never mentioned any intent to attack statues or any other structures- the demonstration was entirely peaceful and in solidarity with struggling asylum seekers. The mobilisation of neo-nazis against this event, on the pretext of defending statues, should therefore be seen as an attempt to exploit the situation to spread disinformation and influence more people.'

    I refuse to read anything by bellacaledonia on principle. Ethnofascist drivel is not my thing, tho it clearly pleases you
    'Do NOT make me look in a mirror.'
    Do you seriously think eadric is visible in mirrors?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    eadric said:

    fpr for Stuart

    Slave traders are one thing. But look at their ever-extending list of targets

    Captain Cook, Lord Nelson, Oliver Cromwell, King Charles, Robert Peel, James II...

    Basically it is all of British history. They want to erase it.

    https://www.toppletheracists.org/

    No, far from erasing history the movement has made for more discussion of slavery than any time in my life.
    Yes and this movement has changed attitudes. It's amazing to see the change in US attitudes vs a year or two ago.

    I haven't seen much comparable polling from UK, but it does feel now like things like taking down statues of racists now command public support, when it wouldn't have done before.
    I wouldn't put a bet either way on this. My gut feel is that it has hardened a number of attitudes in both directions. I think most people have other more pressing problems to worry about but my feeling is that, if you are culturally conservative, you will become more entrenched and vice versa
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,762
    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    That would be true if the Tories had a backbone, but they do not. They are terrified of the Woke Gestapo.

    Nigel Farage is probably grinning with delight right now, somewhere in darkest Surrey, as he dreams up a name for his new party

    Post 1997, it's been a problem for the right in this country that even when they win, they think their victories are ephemeral. They will have to keep winning and winning before they eventually realise that victory is natural.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    HYUFD said:

    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    eadric said:

    MrEd said:

    EPG said:

    eadric said:

    And so, as was so wearily predictable, and as was predicted by some - inc me - on here, the mob has moved on from statues to people

    The problem for you may be that most people think this is unreasonable, but don't automatically transpose that thought onto the statues stuff, which has yet to find a socially normal champion.
    This statues stuff is brilliant for the Conservatives. It fires up the base who thinks the left are about to seize control, reaffirms in the Red Wall voters what they hate about woke-ist middle class right on students and puts Starmer in a skewer because he can't condemn without p1ssing off his base [but also knows every day this goes on, the lower the chances he wins back these seats in 2024
    That would be true if the Tories had a backbone, but they do not. They are terrified of the Woke Gestapo.

    Nigel Farage is probably grinning with delight right now, somewhere in darkest Surrey, as he dreams up a name for his new party

    Johnson is gone next year would be my bet. The MPs - where the base has shifted radically from traditional Tory types to favouring Red Wall interests - will want someone to stand up to the mob. That's why I think Priti Patel is the better bet for next Cons leader / PM ahead of Rishi Sunak.
    I agree Johnson goes next year. Not sure about Patel. Sunak seems likelier.
    I think you're right about Boris; if anything, the risk is on him going earlier. He's not well, he's not doing well and he has always enjoyed the pursuit more than the possession. He's found a way of surviving PMQs; if it hadn't been for that, I could imagine him stomping off in a sulk because everyone is being so mean to him.

    As for his successor; the next few years are likely to be a bit of a mess. Government is going to be difficult and Boris and Brexit-in-the-abstract are the only things holding the Conservative party and vote together right now. On top of that, there's the Covid fallout.

    So if I were young, smart and ambitious, I might look to hold back for now. Take over after the defeat in 2024, be PM in 2029. It might be a nice job by then. So not Sunak as king, though maybe as kingmaker.

    But someone has to take over. They need to be competent enough, ambitious enough and realising that it's now or never. Why doesn't that point to M. Gove?
    If the Tories replace Boris, their most successful election winner since Thatcher and who still leads the polls with Gove, who makes cockroaches look popular, they would be insane
    I don't think the Tories will force him out, I think he will step down of his own accord. I don't think a culture war suits him in the same way as flying the flag on Brexit. Plus there is the question of his health.
This discussion has been closed.