Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Biden moves up even more in the WH2020 betting with latest pol

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited June 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Biden moves up even more in the WH2020 betting with latest polls giving him double digit leads

It has been a remarkably good few days for Joe Biden in the White House race betting as can be seen in the chart above. He is now as strong a favourite as he ever has been with the money going on him and punters becoming more sceptical about the incumbent.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    COYS.... soon
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    :smile::smile:

    Yay.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    Events, dear boy, events.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Don't want to take anything for granted but the world needs Biden to win.

    Then hopefully retire quite quickly as he's clearly got some form of mental difficulties. But the alternative is worse.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Don't want to take anything for granted but the world needs Biden to win.

    I'd say it needs Trump to lose...but near enough.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Those who said that the BLM protests etc would cause a Trump surge presumably expect it to be delayed?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    "I just wonder whether the demonstrations which in some cases have edged towards riots and looting will start to help the President."

    Just another crisis exposing him, I think.

    Tweeting LAW AND ORDER! because somebody has told him about Nixon in 68 is unlikely to butter many parsnips.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354

    Events, dear boy, events.

    Earlier this year RCS posted something to the effect that it was important Trump won so that he and the Republican Party would have to clear up the mess they had created. I could see where he was coming from but on reflection I think that is wrong. When you have a bad President, you really have to get rid of him, and the sooner the better.

    It's fortunate that he has done nothing utterly catastrophic for the USA and the World in general. He hasn't triggered a nuclear war, for example. I'm not sure he wouldn't do something like that in his second term.

    I agree with you. It's very important he is not given another term, whatever Biden's limitations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    White lefties have a problem with dealing with non-white righties.

    Bit like the default of left in 80s, when dealing with Thatcher was to fall back to misogynistic stereotypes for powerful women.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Nigelb said:
    I'll be very surprised now if it's anybody else.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Events, dear boy, events.

    Earlier this year RCS posted something to the effect that it was important Trump won so that he and the Republican Party would have to clear up the mess they had created. I could see where he was coming from but on reflection I think that is wrong. When you have a bad President, you really have to get rid of him, and the sooner the better.

    It's fortunate that he has done nothing utterly catastrophic for the USA and the World in general. He hasn't triggered a nuclear war, for example. I'm not sure he wouldn't do something like that in his second term.

    I agree with you. It's very important he is not given another term, whatever Biden's limitations.
    Another four years of Trump, and the mess might be too big for anyone to clear up.

    I agree; it's extremely important that he not be there to do any more damage.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Lawyers for Prince Andrew have accused US prosecutors of misleading the public and breaching their own confidentiality rules in their handling of the investigation into the disgraced financier and child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

    In a strongly worded, two-page statement, Blackfords, the London-based criminal law specialists, alleged that the US Department of Justice (DoJ) had effectively rejected offers of help volunteered by the prince.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/08/prince-andrew-lawyers-accuse-us-doj-misleading-public-over-epstein-case?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1591631803
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    That is by far the most impressive performance I've seen from Priti Patel, perhaps precisely because she is able to be personal. She should try it more often. It suits her.
    I did say earlier how assured she was and this is outstanding.

    Maybe we all need to show her more respect as she gets little on this forum
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    I just wonder whether the demonstrations which in some cases have edged towards riots and looting will start to help the President..

    What about the demonstrations in white small town America ?
    I think it's possible that a generational shift is underway (not in terms of the presidency, of course :smile: ).
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    On topic, I laid Joe Biden for the presidency at 1.9 earlier because I thought his rise on a couple of polls was overdone.

    So that means you should almost certainly pile in on him now.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    edited June 2020
    I'm another who thinks Patel has been promoted above her paygrade but that was an incredibly powerful response. Too often I have read Guardian readers insult her on the grounds she shouldn't be allowed the views she holds because of her race. I'm glad she spoke so well about such an important issue.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Events, dear boy, events.

    Earlier this year RCS posted something to the effect that it was important Trump won so that he and the Republican Party would have to clear up the mess they had created. I could see where he was coming from but on reflection I think that is wrong. When you have a bad President, you really have to get rid of him, and the sooner the better.

    It's fortunate that he has done nothing utterly catastrophic for the USA and the World in general. He hasn't triggered a nuclear war, for example. I'm not sure he wouldn't do something like that in his second term.

    I agree with you. It's very important he is not given another term, whatever Biden's limitations.
    I think RCS has now changed his view and thinks it's crucial for the US constitution that he loses this time.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    That is by far the most impressive performance I've seen from Priti Patel, perhaps precisely because she is able to be personal. She should try it more often. It suits her.
    I did say earlier how assured she was and this is outstanding.

    Maybe we all need to show her more respect as she gets little on this forum
    Though I dislike her politics I've always had a soft spot for Ms Patel. She comes across as a human being who genuinely believes what she says. Her refusal to back Cummings shows she has a bit about her too. Unusual for this Cabinet.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited June 2020
    Can't resist a TSE-type post:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/501635-atlanta-mayor-being-vetted-as-possible-biden-vp-pick-report

    We have the prospect of Bottoms on the bottom of the ticket for the Dems.
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807

    That is by far the most impressive performance I've seen from Priti Patel, perhaps precisely because she is able to be personal. She should try it more often. It suits her.
    I did say earlier how assured she was and this is outstanding.

    Maybe we all need to show her more respect as she gets little on this forum
    She should get all the respect due to someone who has had to resign for being less than wholly honest to her Prime Minister. Not that integrity is a requirement anymore at the upper levels of the Conservative Party.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Rexel56 said:

    That is by far the most impressive performance I've seen from Priti Patel, perhaps precisely because she is able to be personal. She should try it more often. It suits her.
    I did say earlier how assured she was and this is outstanding.

    Maybe we all need to show her more respect as she gets little on this forum
    She should get all the respect due to someone who has had to resign for being less than wholly honest to her Prime Minister. Not that integrity is a requirement anymore at the upper levels of the Conservative Party.
    I think you need to listen to her presentation in the HOC in light of BLM and maybe realise you have missed the point
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I chose a really bad time to exit the winning party market. I thought that 1.85 was as low as it would go for now.

    Sitting on a small profit looking for the moment to go back in. Come on and do some gaffes Joe, get it back to evens for me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Come on Boris - send JRM to the back benches
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    I think Patel may be the offspring of members of the Ugandan Asian community expelled by Idi Amin....??
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    I think Patel may be the offspring of members of the Ugandan Asian community expelled by Idi Amin....??
    Yes, most Indians in the UK are from that background, though the more recent arrivals are usually Tier 2 visa holders from India.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Come on Boris - send JRM to the back benches

    To have a bit of a lie down? Again.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    edited June 2020

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    And as a lefty(ish) liberal, I can confirm that I really don't loathe Max's existence.
    But setting aside his hyperbole he does have at least half a point.

    Narratives are never quite as simple as the zealots on either side believe.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Foxy said:

    Those who said that the BLM protests etc would cause a Trump surge presumably expect it to be delayed?

    Probably shy Trumpers intimidated by the Antifa pogromists roaming the streets making god fearing folk eat soul food and listen to NWA. Their voices will be heard in the polling booth!
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/200266NBCWSJJune2020Poll.pdf

    As you may know, an African American man died in Minneapolis after a police officer pinned the man to the ground and put his knee on his throat for about eight minutes. There have now been a number of protests,some of which have turned violent. Although both may be of concern to you, which one concerns you more...

    The actions of the police and the death of an African American man: 59
    Protests that have turned violent: 27
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    And as a lefty(ish) liberal, I can confirm that I really don't loathe Max's existence.
    But setting aside his hyperbole he does have at least half a point.

    Narratives are never quite as simple as the zealots on either side believe.
    You aren't out there destroying monuments, tbf. As I said I only ever experience this form of racism from the lefty activists of the type out there on the streets.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    If only that poll could hold until November.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    If only that poll could hold until November.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Brom said:

    I'm another who thinks Patel has been promoted above her paygrade but that was an incredibly powerful response. Too often I have read Guardian readers insult her on the grounds she shouldn't be allowed the views she holds because of her race. I'm glad she spoke so well about such an important issue.

    Labour MPs would be best advised not to bother going after non-white Tory MPs for not understanding or empathising with "the black experience." They are easily shot down, as Patel demonstrated, and the only places then left to go are to sulk in sullen, defeated silence or to call them coconuts (which I imagine is what some of Labour's more radical representatives really think, although they dare not say it.)

    Best save up all their ammunition for Johnson. There's always another crass quotation to dredge up from his back catalogue.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Come on Boris - send JRM to the back benches

    To have a bit of a lie down? Again.
    It is the only thing he is good at
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9_qGOa9Go

    Apparently this played on John Oliver.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
    Then why does the left use BAME as if it were some homogeneous, unchanging monolith, which it clearly isn't?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    And as a lefty(ish) liberal, I can confirm that I really don't loathe Max's existence.
    But setting aside his hyperbole he does have at least half a point.

    Narratives are never quite as simple as the zealots on either side believe.
    It is a tendency of the left to try to develop client groups that need and depend on the left. It's political Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
    It's worth noting that anti-semitic attacks form a very large portion of reported racists offences in the UK.

    The fact that Jews can - by not practising - disappear into the population, means that many secular people of Jewish descent (such as myself) don't experience this.

    Talk to the people who scrub the walls outside synagogues, though....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,118
    edited June 2020

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,152
    edited June 2020
    Nigelb said:
    I think "the Biden of Biden running mate possibilities" is the perfect description.

    Biden was the default choice in a crowded field. He had flaws, but none of them appeared disqualifying. Everyone else made a reasonable case in some respects but none of them were uniquely compelling enough to build momentum.

    Why risk another female candidate when there's always Biden? Why risk a radical when there's always Biden? Why risk a gay candidate when there's always Biden? Why risk a maverick billionaire when there's always Biden?

    Similarly with Harris - she's a solid choice, a known quantity who won't move the polls much. But with everyone else, you've got the same, why risk X when there's always Harris?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
    Then why does the left use BAME as if it were some homogeneous, unchanging monolith, which it clearly isn't?
    Dunno. Do we? We shouldn't. I don't. Maybe the left isn't some homogenous, unchanging monolith either.

    I suspect you're actually thinking of the idpol-obsessed box-tickers who I wouldn't really call left at all since they're opposed to any significant shift of power or wealth in society.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
    I expect fury here in North Wales as he destroys the hotel and leisure industry

    But then he is a Corbynista who has no care for business
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Priti Patel fantastic in the Commons today.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited June 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.

    There are generalizations about racial groups here that I am not in a position to comment on and don't want to.

    There is also a shitload of projecting about "the left" - what they "think" about race - why they "can't stand the truth" about Asians - right through to the (to me) upsetting claim that the left loathe your very existence because you are a can-do person who does not play the victim card.

    Well I'm on the left and I don't think or feel any of those things. Neither does anybody who I know on the left - and I know a fair few. Seriously, it's a nonsense from where I'm standing. I cannot think where you are drawing this stuff from.

    And there is a serious specific charge in there - that the left deliberately minimize the racial discrimination faced by Asians. If you have evidence of this, I would like to see it. Or rather I wouldn't - since it would be an uncomfortable experience - but I did ought to be disabused of my conceptions where they are wrong.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
    And yet I've been told countless times by lefty activists about how I should feel about a situation, white lefty liberals telling me that I'm not a "good minority person" or that I'm "a traitor to other minorities" and my personal favourite "people calling you the p-word is nowhere near as bad as people calling a black person the n-word". The last one has been said on three or four separate occasions by different people.

    I've experienced racism from many types of people but those who purport to be anti-racists are the worst racists IMO. Tbh, I've got quite a few Jewish friends who agree.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Priti Patel fantastic in the Commons today.

    I never thought I would read that but she really was a star today

    Let us see how she develops
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Google trends for 'antifa' is genuinely surprising to me.

    SEarch traffic Around the Charlotteville demonstration is basically line noise compared to recent search volumes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,599

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    I think Patel may be the offspring of members of the Ugandan Asian community expelled by Idi Amin....??
    I used to think so, but in fact her parents moved to the UK in the 1960s, not the 1970s.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    I read elsewhere that the Welsh Government had said the country wouldn't be open for Summer holidays this year. I might be mistaken, although that statement about telling everyone to stay local would suggest that I'm not.

    It's a tremendous gamble. Presumably he is preparing to blame Sunak for winding down the furlough scheme for the imminent death of the Welsh tourism sector? Anyway, if England gallops on ahead with unshuttering and then has a major second spike in hospitalisations then he'll be vindicated. If it doesn't then he'll have a lot of explaining to do.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
    I expect fury here in North Wales as he destroys the hotel and leisure industry

    But then he is a Corbynista who has no care for business
    Drakeford is an absolute Muppet. Typical Labour wants everyone to live on benefits
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    The politicisation of the FDA is a very bad thing indeed.
    Resisted so far, but Trump really must go.

    https://twitter.com/carlzimmer/status/1270036338407100417
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,118
    Although the coronavirus outbreak in Europe is improving, "globally it is worsening", says World Health Organization (WHO) chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Priti Patel fantastic in the Commons today.

    I didn't see it cos I have been drinking. But if you, Big G and Meeks are in agreement on this she must have been good!
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
    And yet I've been told countless times by lefty activists about how I should feel about a situation, white lefty liberals telling me that I'm not a "good minority person" or that I'm "a traitor to other minorities" and my personal favourite "people calling you the p-word is nowhere near as bad as people calling a black person the n-word". The last one has been said on three or four separate occasions by different people.

    I've experienced racism from many types of people but those who purport to be anti-racists are the worst racists IMO. Tbh, I've got quite a few Jewish friends who agree.
    I'm sorry you've experienced that, and I can only say that it doesn't match up to my own experience moving in lefty circles. But none of that justifies or excuses you minimising the discrimination against other races.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,118
    Nigelb said:
    I want to know who the 3% are and we make sure they are never invited onto SAGE ;-)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,599
    edited June 2020
    Only 200 Covid-19 deaths in western/central Europe today, a big drop on a week ago.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2020

    That is by far the most impressive performance I've seen from Priti Patel, perhaps precisely because she is able to be personal. She should try it more often. It suits her.
    Fantastic stuff. Essex girls take no shit
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,118
    edited June 2020
    Nigelb said:

    twitter.com/linseymarr/status/1270004810587267072

    A little bit like masks, i have always been some what concerned that people act as if they stay 2m away it is like they have a magic shield.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Nigelb said:
    I want to know who the 3% are and we make sure they are never invited onto SAGE ;-)
    Perhaps they're already on it?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
    And yet I've been told countless times by lefty activists about how I should feel about a situation, white lefty liberals telling me that I'm not a "good minority person" or that I'm "a traitor to other minorities" and my personal favourite "people calling you the p-word is nowhere near as bad as people calling a black person the n-word". The last one has been said on three or four separate occasions by different people.

    I've experienced racism from many types of people but those who purport to be anti-racists are the worst racists IMO. Tbh, I've got quite a few Jewish friends who agree.
    I'm sorry you've experienced that, and I can only say that it doesn't match up to my own experience moving in lefty circles. But none of that justifies or excuses you minimising the discrimination against other races.
    Just to be clear, my comment about my own experience isn't to cast any doubt on what you're saying has happened to you, it's to suggest that those people were not representative of the left.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited June 2020

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    I read elsewhere that the Welsh Government had said the country wouldn't be open for Summer holidays this year. I might be mistaken, although that statement about telling everyone to stay local would suggest that I'm not.

    It's a tremendous gamble. Presumably he is preparing to blame Sunak for winding down the furlough scheme for the imminent death of the Welsh tourism sector? Anyway, if England gallops on ahead with unshuttering and then has a major second spike in hospitalisations then he'll be vindicated. If it doesn't then he'll have a lot of explaining to do.
    That relates to an article quoted from the Independent. Drakeford denied saying that or that the article implied it. Drakeford, who was surprisingly cogent and confident today indicated they were working on self-contained accomodation opening this summer, but that non-self contained, presumably hotels and guest houses were unlikely to reopen for the foreseeable future. I suspect market demand, rather than Drakeford will do for these businesses.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
    I expect fury here in North Wales as he destroys the hotel and leisure industry

    But then he is a Corbynista who has no care for business
    Where's the Parliament of North Wales going to go then? Caernarfon or Wrexham?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Nigelb said:
    Why are they willing to go a church but not see a play? Some form of divine protection?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,599
    edited June 2020
    National polls from the US aren't particularly enlightening IMO. What we need is lots of state polls from places like Arizona, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Maine, Texas, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878



    She speaks a lot of claptrap as if readin' from scripts and she has form for bein' dishonest. On this occasion, however, she spoke sincerely, from experience and with feelin'. We should see more of that Priti Patel - she's interestin'.

    :innocent:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    edited June 2020

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
    I expect fury here in North Wales as he destroys the hotel and leisure industry

    But then he is a Corbynista who has no care for business
    Where's the Parliament of North Wales going to go then? Caernarfon or Wrexham?
    Llandudno, the Queen of resorts.

    And midway between the other two
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
    I expect fury here in North Wales as he destroys the hotel and leisure industry

    But then he is a Corbynista who has no care for business
    Where's the Parliament of North Wales going to go then? Caernarfon or Wrexham?
    Machynlleth!

  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
    I expect fury here in North Wales as he destroys the hotel and leisure industry

    But then he is a Corbynista who has no care for business
    Where's the Parliament of North Wales going to go then? Caernarfon or Wrexham?
    Machynlleth!

    Bless you!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Priti Patel fantastic in the Commons today.

    I never thought I would read that but she really was a star today

    Let us see how she develops
    Ive been singing her praises the last month or so. I dont like her politics but she has been second best performer in the cabinet since the election, and is on an upwards curve.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
    I expect fury here in North Wales as he destroys the hotel and leisure industry

    But then he is a Corbynista who has no care for business
    Where's the Parliament of North Wales going to go then? Caernarfon or Wrexham?
    Machynlleth!

    Bless you!
    I went there in 1984. It was closed 😊
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Drakesford heading for rebellion from our hotel and leisure industries as he suggested the 5 mile driving limit in Wales could last for another 12 weeks

    While i think the UK government were incorrect to have a free for all in terms of distance straight out of the gate, continuing just 5 mins is potty. I think in France it is 100km, that seems reasonable that you can get out and about to different local places without everybody heading 100s of miles to second homes and the temptation to turn a day trip into an overnight in the car trip and of course hoping to limit spread.
    I expect fury here in North Wales as he destroys the hotel and leisure industry

    But then he is a Corbynista who has no care for business
    Where's the Parliament of North Wales going to go then? Caernarfon or Wrexham?
    Llandudno, the Queen of resorts.

    And midway between the other two
    I have been to Llandudno and it was really good.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Priti Patel fantastic in the Commons today.

    Apart from the hanging and flogging aspect of her character, I find her rather alluring, even down to the dropped "H"s and estuary accent. A new found competence is a bonus.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Priti Patel fantastic in the Commons today.

    I never thought I would read that but she really was a star today

    Let us see how she develops
    Ive been singing her praises the last month or so. I dont like her politics but she has been second best performer in the cabinet since the election, and is on an upwards curve.
    incredibly low bar there, that is a bit like a two legged man being down the field in a one legged race
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    That is by far the most impressive performance I've seen from Priti Patel, perhaps precisely because she is able to be personal. She should try it more often. It suits her.
    Yes, it is quite interesting how different she seems. I presume she believes most of what she usually says as ell, but it's not generally particularly well delivered.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    HYUFD said:
    A big question is turnout - if the Democrats get fired up and we see differential turnout, this could turn into a mega blowout for Trump.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    malcolmg said:

    Priti Patel fantastic in the Commons today.

    I never thought I would read that but she really was a star today

    Let us see how she develops
    Ive been singing her praises the last month or so. I dont like her politics but she has been second best performer in the cabinet since the election, and is on an upwards curve.
    incredibly low bar there, that is a bit like a two legged man being down the field in a one legged race
    It is a low bar, there is some real dross in there, but she gets labelled in with Williamson, JRM, Raab etc when she is much better imo. A combination of simply being polite and on top of your brief shouldnt make you a standout performer but in this cabinet it does.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:



    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.


    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
    And yet I've been told countless times by lefty activists about how I should feel about a situation, white lefty liberals telling me that I'm not a "good minority person" or that I'm "a traitor to other minorities" and my personal favourite "people calling you the p-word is nowhere near as bad as people calling a black person the n-word". The last one has been said on three or four separate occasions by different people.

    I've experienced racism from many types of people but those who purport to be anti-racists are the worst racists IMO. Tbh, I've got quite a few Jewish friends who agree.
    I'm sorry you've experienced that, and I can only say that it doesn't match up to my own experience moving in lefty circles. But none of that justifies or excuses you minimising the discrimination against other races.
    How often have you disagreed with the groupthink? That's usually when those sorts of comments come out (and after a lot of wine).

    I'm also not minimising the discrimination faced by other races, nor would I wish to. What I'm saying is that skin colour is not a bar to success in the UK. There are millions of Asian and Black people in this country who have proved it isn't. I have a lot of time for anyone has suffered from racial discrimination and I've helped many of my friends who are not white with discrimination issues with advice on how best to handle it.

    I also have a lot of sympathy for the original intent of the protestors at the moment, the police in the UK are racist towards black people. When I walk down the street and see a black person it just is what it is, for some police when they see a black person they see a potential criminal. Until that attitude is changed the police will always have a problem with racism.

    What I have no time for is people wallowing in perpetual victim status. We live in a country where the chancellor and home secretary are BAME and the Mayor of London is BAME that's something to be proud of. As I said yesterday, we've reached a situation where the previous BAME chancellor was replaced with another BAME chancellor. I'm very proud to live in a country where that is possible, I could never see it happen in the US or anywhere in Europe. Not being white is my source of strength, the adversity I faced as a younger person has shaped who I am today, those experiences have made me a more successful person, I don't resent people who hate me for the colour of my skin, I pity them.
    Well said.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    HYUFD said:
    Having listened a bit more to the arguments today, putting similar statues in local museums where context can be given seems like a very good middle ground.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Events, dear boy, events.

    Earlier this year RCS posted something to the effect that it was important Trump won so that he and the Republican Party would have to clear up the mess they had created. I could see where he was coming from but on reflection I think that is wrong. When you have a bad President, you really have to get rid of him, and the sooner the better.

    It's fortunate that he has done nothing utterly catastrophic for the USA and the World in general. He hasn't triggered a nuclear war, for example. I'm not sure he wouldn't do something like that in his second term.

    I agree with you. It's very important he is not given another term, whatever Biden's limitations.
    There's five months to go, seven until Inauguration day. He may feel he owes himself a nuclear catastrophe. I really wouldn't put it past him.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Indians (and Jews) are the black sheep of the BAME community because we're successful. Asians especially disprove the notion that skin colour is a major contributory factor in personal failure and this is a huge blow to the lefty narrative of grievance among lefty BAME activists out destroying monuments at the moment.

    People use the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures and there are very few Asians who will agree with that stance.

    The next step is the left minimising racial discrimination and attacks that Asians have faced ever since we arrived in the UK, attacks and discrimination that Priti Patel describes well and that all of us recognise. It is to minimise the fact that millions of Indians were put into indentured servitude after the banning of slavery. It is to minimise the hardships of Indians due to the decisions made by the East India Company.

    Asians are an inconvenient truth that the left can't stand and many of them wish we didn't exist as it disrupts their narrative. As I said yesterday, I'm much more likely to change the racist attitude of a BNP fascist than a lefty liberal who loathes my very existence because I don't subscribe to their culture of blame and grievance.
    This is completely nonsensical. Look at the US in the early 60s. There was far less discrimination against, e.g., Jews or Italians than there had been in the early 20th century, but that didn't mean there was no racism remaining against other races. Would you then have argued that black people complaining about Jim Crow laws were "using the colour of their skin as a defence mechanism for personal failures"?

    As a Jew (on my father's side), the idea that I face the same level of discrimination as a black person in modern Britain is utterly laughable. I can't imagine how self-centred I'd have to persuade myself otherwise on the basis of past persecutions.
    I was talking about the UK firstly, and specifically to skin colour I was speaking about Asians. Obviously Jews are not discriminated against because of their skin colour, though discrimination against Jews definitely exists and is as insidious as other forms of racism.
    I know you were talking about the UK (and the modern day, not the 1960s). My point though is that the reduction of racism against one race does not indicate that racism against another race has reduced in the same way. The US is an example of that in action.
    And yet I've been told countless times by lefty activists about how I should feel about a situation, white lefty liberals telling me that I'm not a "good minority person" or that I'm "a traitor to other minorities" and my personal favourite "people calling you the p-word is nowhere near as bad as people calling a black person the n-word". The last one has been said on three or four separate occasions by different people.

    I've experienced racism from many types of people but those who purport to be anti-racists are the worst racists IMO. Tbh, I've got quite a few Jewish friends who agree.
    I think, these days, there's far more evidence of those on the Right wanting to move beyond race than those on the Left.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    As the public record indicates the DOJ has been actively investigating Mr Epstein and other targets for more than 16 years, yet the first time they requested the Duke’s help was on 2nd January 2020.

    Importantly, the DOJ advised us that the Duke is not and has never been a ‘target’ of their criminal investigations into Epstein and that they sought his confidential, voluntary co-operation.

    In the course of these discussions, we asked the DOJ to confirm that our co-operation and any interview arrangements would remain confidential, in accordance with the ordinary rules that apply to voluntary co-operation with the DOJ. We were given an unequivocal assurance that our discussions and the interview process would remain confidential.

    The Duke of York has on at least three occasions this year offered his assistance as a witness to the DOJ. Unfortunately, the DOJ has reacted to the first two offers by breaching their own confidentiality rules and claiming that the Duke has offered zero cooperation. In doing so, they are perhaps seeking publicity rather than accepting the assistance proffered.

    On 27th January 2020, Mr Geoffrey S Berman, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, chose to make a public statement about the Duke. This led to worldwide media reports that there had been “a wall of silence” and that there had been “zero co-operation” by the Duke. These statements were inaccurate, and they should not have been made.


    https://blackfords.com/statement-regarding-hrh-the-duke-of-york/

    So, just over 3 weeks after first asking for his help they announce there had been “a wall of silence” and that there had been “zero co-operation” by the Duke....

    Much as I have a low opinion of the Duke of York, grandstanding prosecutors are several tiers lower....
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    malcolmg said:

    Priti Patel fantastic in the Commons today.

    I never thought I would read that but she really was a star today

    Let us see how she develops
    Ive been singing her praises the last month or so. I dont like her politics but she has been second best performer in the cabinet since the election, and is on an upwards curve.
    incredibly low bar there, that is a bit like a two legged man being down the field in a one legged race
    Much better though than anything in Scotland 😊
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Come on Boris - send JRM to the back benches

    He might be useful as a lightning rod - distracts from other really posh people by having a really really posh person there.
This discussion has been closed.