But I'm not sure why small businesses with only a handful of employees (the number six comes to mind funnily) aren't being told to get back to work, seeing that is less contact than the constant stream of comings and goings in gardens.
Err the "work" situation has been to work from home if you can else work from wherever you must work (Unless in a restricted area such as a pub) for a good while yet.
The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.
The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:
Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.
We will never know how the scientists would have responded if they had been interrogated intelligently by an engaged Prime Minister alert to the growing dangers of a pandemic. Because the Prime Minister we had wasn't interested enough even to turn up to the relevant meetings.
I suppose there's that. Did anyone ever ask them what action would be necessary to contain the virus?
There was an oddly fatalistic attitude to its spread to the UK.
How long do you think the UK can continue with the present schemes or is it correct to start mitigating the cost in incremental increases.
I’m not an economist. But with the government borrowing more in April than it intended to for the year, and with Covid-19 ruining public finances in the short term far worse than the crisis of 2008 did, the answer must be: not indefinitely.
I don’t particularly disagree with this decision. It has, however, consequences, many of which will be unwelcome.
To be honest Alastair, there are no good options from here but the biggest difficulty is that lockdown is easy and popular, but coming out of it is going to be very hard and many changes are going to happen to employment and the nature of jobs
I expect these decisions with define this government and being popular may well be very hard to maintain
It’s going to be an interesting test. Britain looks to have broadly got the economic decisions right and the health decisions wrong. Some other countries look to have done the opposite. We’re going to see which matters more.
How long do you think the UK can continue with the present schemes or is it correct to start mitigating the cost in incremental increases.
I’m not an economist. But with the government borrowing more in April than it intended to for the year, and with Covid-19 ruining public finances in the short term far worse than the crisis of 2008 did, the answer must be: not indefinitely.
I don’t particularly disagree with this decision. It has, however, consequences, many of which will be unwelcome.
To be honest Alastair, there are no good options from here but the biggest difficulty is that lockdown is easy and popular, but coming out of it is going to be very hard and many changes are going to happen to employment and the nature of jobs
I expect these decisions with define this government and being popular may well be very hard to maintain
It’s going to be an interesting test. Britain looks to have broadly got the economic decisions right and the health decisions wrong. Some other countries look to have done the opposite. We’re going to see which matters more.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
Let's hope many of her 86m young followers who are American turn out in November.
Isn't her music more popular in Trumpistan than the coasts? I vaguely recall her being reticent to talk about her politics in the past for fear of offending them.
The twaterrati less impressed with Mr Yorkshire Tea now he is slightly closing the magic money tap.
Well they would, wouldn't they? They are being paid to do sod all.
Totally unsuprising....although i have said previously if people are pissed about big dom trip, wait until they start to find out they aren't on paid vacation for 3 months, they are gardening leave before reduncy and even if they are going back to work, that all these ongoing costs of coronavirus are going to be paid by all of us for decades to come.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?
Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!
If you have an off-licence licence you can. In this part of Cumbria the police are insisting that you can only do this with food - which is unfair - and can’t do it all, if people then sit in the park nearby - also unfair.
What about if you are legally prevented from operating and therefore earning? Do such employers also have to pay? Did Sunak say from where they are supposed to find the money?
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Suggest you reapply when her baleful term of office is over (which is very soon iirc).
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
Just be thankful it wasn't 6.5
They ought to make an exception there. So if there are 6 ministers present, Cummings can join the meeting.
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Sounds like the last gasp of the "bugger off and join the Tories" message, which of course was so successful in the red wall seats.
Guessing if you tried again in 6 months it'd go through.
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
I think a more sensible policy would be its two households can meet. As realistically, if it is 4 or 5 or 6 it doesn't matter, as they will go home and potentially infect everybody at home. So 6 people from 4 different homes probably worse than 8 people from 2.
What would be worse is lots of different households regularly meeting. Boris did say this wasn't advised yesterday, but nowhere near strong enough.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
You should appeal, now that Formby is gone.
No means of appeal. I could write to them and try again though ordinarily the rejection is a 2 year ban. Perhaps with letters of support from my former MP and his agent who know what I did for them
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Formby? She was sacked weeks ago for being a racist nutter oops, being too closely aligned with Corbyn’s leadership.
How long do you think the UK can continue with the present schemes or is it correct to start mitigating the cost in incremental increases.
I’m not an economist. But with the government borrowing more in April than it intended to for the year, and with Covid-19 ruining public finances in the short term far worse than the crisis of 2008 did, the answer must be: not indefinitely.
I don’t particularly disagree with this decision. It has, however, consequences, many of which will be unwelcome.
To be honest Alastair, there are no good options from here but the biggest difficulty is that lockdown is easy and popular, but coming out of it is going to be very hard and many changes are going to happen to employment and the nature of jobs
I expect these decisions with define this government and being popular may well be very hard to maintain
It’s going to be an interesting test. Britain looks to have broadly got the economic decisions right and the health decisions wrong. Some other countries look to have done the opposite. We’re going to see which matters more.
There is plenty of time for them to cock up the economic decisions as we come out of lockdown.
But I'm not sure why small businesses with only a handful of employees (the number six comes to mind funnily) aren't being told to get back to work, seeing that is less contact than the constant stream of comings and goings in gardens.
Err the "work" situation has been to work from home if you can else work from wherever you must work (Unless in a restricted area such as a pub) for a good while yet.
After an initially shaky start on the work "advice" from the Gov't it's been clearer than a very clear thing indeed as to what can and can't be done regarding work.
I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?
Blimey, it's either very asymptomatic, I've got an atypically uninfected group of friends and colleagues or people have kept quiet about it.
My close circle numbers some 25 people of which 7 have had the virus. 3 had it bad but not quite hospital. Other 4 mild.
Confirmed by test or only by symptom (out of curiosity)?
No tests. They all had it in the period when we were testing hospital patients only.
Be interesting to see any serology tests at some point - wife was ill late Feb and thought she 'might' have had it, but PHE blood test says no! I'm also fascinated by the people being tested currently (typically more than 70,000 a day) that are not Covid-19 positive - what are their symptoms?
Yes a couple could have been fauxcorona. High proportion of key workers though so I think probably genuine. Certainly the bad cases ticked all the boxes. The antibody tests will be interesting. Everybody in the country will want a positive and most will likely be disappointed.
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?
Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!
If you have an off-licence licence you can. In this part of Cumbria the police are insisting that you can only do this with food - which is unfair - and can’t do it all, if people then sit in the park nearby - also unfair.
What about if you are legally prevented from operating and therefore earning? Do such employers also have to pay? Did Sunak say from where they are supposed to find the money?
It's a subtle nudge to push companies to make staff redundant (or bring them back, of course). That only Costa the government £700 per month in UC rather than £2000 for the furlough.
I think it sort of makes sense because some businesses do need a starting gun for reopening.
This is where it starts to get difficult for government, as was always going to be the case.
The current schemes have been exceptionally generous by international standards, but it’s now time for companies to start thinking about what their business looks like in the future, especially in terms of making redundancies. Asking companies to start paying partial salaries will help get these conversations going.
Over the next few months, the government support needs to taper from the furlough scheme levels towards standard UC levels for people who don’t have a job to go back to - it’s necessary but of course isn’t going to be popular, there’s probably a couple of million people initially going to be affected.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Formby? She was sacked weeks ago for being a racist nutter oops, being too closely aligned with Corbyn’s leadership.
How come her name is still on the letter?
She only stepped down when David Evans was elected a couple of days ago
Out of interest, do any of the PB Tories believe that the government has handled the pandemic (as opposed to the Cummings affair) well?
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
It's a subtle nudge to push companies to make staff redundant (or bring them back, of course). That only Costa the government £700 per month in UC rather than £2000 for the furlough.
I think it sort of makes sense because some businesses do need a starting gun for reopening.
This is where it starts to get difficult for government, as was always going to be the case.
The current schemes have been exceptionally generous by international standards, but it’s now time for companies to start thinking about what their business looks like in the future, especially in terms of making redundancies. Asking companies to start paying partial salaries will help get these conversations going.
Over the next few months, the government support needs to taper from the furlough scheme levels towards standard UC levels for people who don’t have a job to go back to - it’s necessary but of course isn’t going to be popular, there’s probably a couple of million people initially going to be affected.
The Gov't needs to keep the furlough scheme open where businesses legally can't trade and then perhaps a touch longer. Everyone needs to know where aggregate demand is after that.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Formby? She was sacked weeks ago for being a racist nutter oops, being too closely aligned with Corbyn’s leadership.
How come her name is still on the letter?
She only stepped down when David Evans was elected a couple of days ago
Good grief.
Misstep by Starmer, he should have taken advantage of the pandemic to put her on indefinite leave.
On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?
Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!
If you have an off-licence licence you can. In this part of Cumbria the police are insisting that you can only do this with food - which is unfair - and can’t do it all, if people then sit in the park nearby - also unfair.
What about if you are legally prevented from operating and therefore earning? Do such employers also have to pay? Did Sunak say from where they are supposed to find the money?
On the food point, does a packet of crisps count?
It’s been a couple of decades since I did a licensing law exam, but the definition of “food” used to be “a substantial meal” and was usually in the context of extended hours for function rooms when pubs closed at 11. The way we thought of a substantial meal, was that chips weren’t enough without the burger.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Formby? She was sacked weeks ago for being a racist nutter oops, being too closely aligned with Corbyn’s leadership.
How come her name is still on the letter?
She only stepped down when David Evans was elected a couple of days ago
Write to her and ask if you had campaigned against Labour for the SWP would she have welcomed you with open arms? Just like the rest of them.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Formby? She was sacked weeks ago for being a racist nutter oops, being too closely aligned with Corbyn’s leadership.
How come her name is still on the letter?
She only stepped down when David Evans was elected a couple of days ago
Write to her and ask if you had campaigned against Labour for the SWP would she have welcomed you with open arms? Just like the rest of them.
Or indeed, if you had repeatedly supported the Conservatives like, say, Jeremy Corbyn.
No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
Palmerston.
Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
I think a more sensible policy would be its two households can meet. As realistically, if it is 4 or 5 or 6 it doesn't matter, as they will go home and potentially infect everybody at home. So 6 people from 4 different homes probably worse than 8 people from 2.
What would be worse is lots of different households regularly meeting. Boris did say this wasn't advised yesterday, but nowhere near strong enough.
Nobody will pay a blind bit of notice of the detail until the uptick comes (if it does - I prefer to travel in hope on this one).
It's a subtle nudge to push companies to make staff redundant (or bring them back, of course). That only Costa the government £700 per month in UC rather than £2000 for the furlough.
I think it sort of makes sense because some businesses do need a starting gun for reopening.
This is where it starts to get difficult for government, as was always going to be the case.
The current schemes have been exceptionally generous by international standards, but it’s now time for companies to start thinking about what their business looks like in the future, especially in terms of making redundancies. Asking companies to start paying partial salaries will help get these conversations going.
Over the next few months, the government support needs to taper from the furlough scheme levels towards standard UC levels for people who don’t have a job to go back to - it’s necessary but of course isn’t going to be popular, there’s probably a couple of million people initially going to be affected.
The Gov't needs to keep the furlough scheme open where businesses legally can't trade and then perhaps a touch longer. Everyone needs to know where aggregate demand is after that.
Yes, but there’s going to be a big difference between being allowed to trade, and being allowed to trade at previous volumes. Capacities of many entertainment venues are going to be reduced, even if demand is still there - that’s going to be the difficult bit to work out, as their business models rely on venues being full.
Out of interest, do any of the PB Tories believe that the government has handled the pandemic (as opposed to the Cummings affair) well?
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
I would say that all the component parts of the UK failed collectively at the onset of the crisis. Nicola should and could have dealt with the Nike ground zero outbreak in Edinburgh in February and been more pro - active, and to her credit she admits mistakes were made. All four leaders should have gone into lockdown quicker and defended care homes which across the nation has been a disaster. The football and Cheltenham should have been cancelled as well.
It therefore asks the question, why were they all blindsided and of course the common denominator is Cobra and the advice given and the obvious unanimity on the way forward. There has not been one leader who has demured on the early stages, and to be fair Nicola has accepted that errors were made, but cites the benefit of hindsight
Ulimately, the enquiry that is coming will be very interesting, but I would be very worried about the advice Sage and each PH body gave and just how well they reacted. The big question is how much got lost in the depths of the inner organisation of these bodies, and how long it took for the private sector to be commissioned on PPE etc
And this is my honest opinion and I am not trying to make political points
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
Would you want to be the person in the middle though?
It's a subtle nudge to push companies to make staff redundant (or bring them back, of course). That only Costa the government £700 per month in UC rather than £2000 for the furlough.
I think it sort of makes sense because some businesses do need a starting gun for reopening.
This is where it starts to get difficult for government, as was always going to be the case.
The current schemes have been exceptionally generous by international standards, but it’s now time for companies to start thinking about what their business looks like in the future, especially in terms of making redundancies. Asking companies to start paying partial salaries will help get these conversations going.
Over the next few months, the government support needs to taper from the furlough scheme levels towards standard UC levels for people who don’t have a job to go back to - it’s necessary but of course isn’t going to be popular, there’s probably a couple of million people initially going to be affected.
The Gov't needs to keep the furlough scheme open where businesses legally can't trade and then perhaps a touch longer. Everyone needs to know where aggregate demand is after that.
Yes, but there’s going to be a big difference between being allowed to trade, and being allowed to trade at previous volumes. Capacities of many entertainment venues are going to be reduced, even if demand is still there - that’s going to be the difficult bit to work out, as their business models rely on venues being full.
Unless we want to keep furlough up till a vaccine is widely available then the businesses will ahve to adapt.
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
This is to allow certain groups of people to meet in pentagons. I assume the 5G installers.
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
That's assuming they're all individuals. Likely to have household units who don't need to distance from each other within that six. Could be eg 3 couples, or two couples and 2 children etc
Plus it's a guideline not a rule. If a family of five wants a couple over to visit then I'd expect them to use their common sense.
I presume nice companies with a little cash will stump up the lowish contributions in Aug-Oct to get some income to their furloughed staff, while not so nice companies will cut them off after July.
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
Would you want to be the person in the middle though?
I believe you might be able to find instructional videos of that sort of thing.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Formby? She was sacked weeks ago for being a racist nutter oops, being too closely aligned with Corbyn’s leadership.
How come her name is still on the letter?
She only stepped down when David Evans was elected a couple of days ago
Good grief.
Misstep by Starmer, he should have taken advantage of the pandemic to put her on indefinite leave.
The leader has no such power. Formby resigned anyway.
Can I say just how absurdly annoyed I am about the fact that the government has chosen six as its number for group meetings? You can fit seven people in effectively the same minimum socially distanced space as you can six - a hexagon.
That's assuming they're all individuals. Likely to have household units who don't need to distance from each other within that six. Could be eg 3 couples, or two couples and 2 children etc
Plus it's a guideline not a rule. If a family of five wants a couple over to visit then I'd expect them to use their common sense.
On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?
Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!
If you have an off-licence licence you can. In this part of Cumbria the police are insisting that you can only do this with food - which is unfair - and can’t do it all, if people then sit in the park nearby - also unfair.
What about if you are legally prevented from operating and therefore earning? Do such employers also have to pay? Did Sunak say from where they are supposed to find the money?
Who do you expect to be legally forbidden from opening at all by August and why?
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Your choice or theirs?
Theirs. Sod off email by Jennie Formby complete with letter from the Legal and Governance Unit. Apparently "I campaigned for the Liberal Democrats against Labour". Erm they don't seem aware of what I did to the local LibDem election campaign...
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
You should appeal, now that Formby is gone.
No means of appeal. I could write to them and try again though ordinarily the rejection is a 2 year ban. Perhaps with letters of support from my former MP and his agent who know what I did for them
Can't you just pay £3? That was the old way surely?
I suppose one also has to smile at the fact that the announcement about meetings of six people outside was accompanied by official advice about what people should do when they go indoors to use the toilet.
I suppose one also has to smile at the fact that the announcement about meetings of six people outside was accompanied by official advice about what people should do when they go indoors to use the toilet.
Out of interest, do any of the PB Tories believe that the government has handled the pandemic (as opposed to the Cummings affair) well?
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
I would say that all the component parts of the UK failed collectively at the onset of the crisis. Nicola should and could have dealt with the Nike ground zero outbreak in Edinburgh in February and been more pro - active, and to her credit she admits mistakes were made. All four leaders should have gone into lockdown quicker and defended care homes which across the nation has been a disaster. The football and Cheltenham should have been cancelled as well.
It therefore asks the question, why were they all blindsided and of course the common denominator is Cobra and the advice given and the obvious unanimity on the way forward. There has not been one leader who has demured on the early stages, and to be fair Nicola has accepted that errors were made, but cites the benefit of hindsight
Ulimately, the enquiry that is coming will be very interesting, but I would be very worried about the advice Sage and each PH body gave and just how well they reacted. The big question is how much got lost in the depths of the inner organisation of these bodies, and how long it took for the private sector to be commissioned on PPE etc
And this is my honest opinion and I am not trying to make political points
UK government were fully aware G, what did they do, the UK government and their tame scientists led by Cummings were on a different tack , they are the ones that were running the show at that time. How could Sturgeon have announced a lockdown in Scotland a month before the UK. They were following crap information trying not to follow WHO to show how great they were against the rest. Crap experts and crap politicians in Westminster are the root of it all.
One can only smile at the idea of the government deciding now that the furlough scheme is going to finish in October.
It's not June yet, and we're about to take a big leap in the dark. Who knows what July will be like, let alone October?
Yes. This obsession with a date having to be attached to every announcement is very strange. October is four months away. 4 months ago it was the end of January. A different world entirely. We could be in a state of almost pre-pandemic normality. Or being flattened by a second wave and deep in an economic depression.
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
Well I know of one former green party activist in the "ooh Jeremy Corbyn" camp who was admitted to the party in the Autumn of 2015 having stood against the party in local elections in May 2015. She turned out to be all mouth and no trousers, one of those who tries to dominate meetings yet contributes diddly squat on the ground.
She wasn't subject to objections from a local faction more concerned to maintain the ideological purity of their local party than to accept that the party can only win as a coalition of different strands of the left who chooe to concentrate on what unites them. I presume that you were.
It's a shame anyway as you appear to be more supportive of the current leadership than many of those "inspired" by the previous leader.
I suppose one also has to smile at the fact that the announcement about meetings of six people outside was accompanied by official advice about what people should do when they go indoors to use the toilet.
Use some common sense?
Oh, it was something or other that people will no doubt not bother to do. It may be someone's idea of common sense.
One can only smile at the idea of the government deciding now that the furlough scheme is going to finish in October.
It's not June yet, and we're about to take a big leap in the dark. Who knows what July will be like, let alone October?
Yes. This obsession with a date having to be attached to every announcement is very strange. October is four months away. 4 months ago it was the end of January. A different world entirely.
It's a subtle nudge to push companies to make staff redundant (or bring them back, of course). That only Costa the government £700 per month in UC rather than £2000 for the furlough.
I think it sort of makes sense because some businesses do need a starting gun for reopening.
This is where it starts to get difficult for government, as was always going to be the case.
The current schemes have been exceptionally generous by international standards, but it’s now time for companies to start thinking about what their business looks like in the future, especially in terms of making redundancies. Asking companies to start paying partial salaries will help get these conversations going.
Over the next few months, the government support needs to taper from the furlough scheme levels towards standard UC levels for people who don’t have a job to go back to - it’s necessary but of course isn’t going to be popular, there’s probably a couple of million people initially going to be affected.
The Gov't needs to keep the furlough scheme open where businesses legally can't trade and then perhaps a touch longer. Everyone needs to know where aggregate demand is after that.
Yes, but there’s going to be a big difference between being allowed to trade, and being allowed to trade at previous volumes. Capacities of many entertainment venues are going to be reduced, even if demand is still there - that’s going to be the difficult bit to work out, as their business models rely on venues being full.
2m rule + end of furlough = mass unemployment. It cannot possibly be otherwise.
*Social distancing in schools means that they cannot possibly accept all their pupils back full-time, which can only result in the mass sacking of working parents (albeit that much off the resultant unemployment may be offset by hirings of people without the same commitments)
*It also means that restaurants, even assuming that they are allowed to re-open, will go under because they can't cater for enough guests: essentially, losing most of their tables should also mean that most of these businesses will be wiped out, except for takeaways and perhaps a handful with very spacious premises and/or that offer high end cuisine at extortionate prices to very wealthy people
*Pubs, bars, nightclubs, cinemas and theatres probably still won't be open come the Autumn. The big brewery firms might be willing and able to mothball their tied houses and bring them back when this is all over, but the rest of these venues have had it. The Government might consider having mercy on museums and art galleries and allowing them to receive visitors, but the performance arts are basically finished as a sector, and the same goes for most of professional sport
*I expect that we'll still have some hotels at the end of all this but the numbers will be substantially reduced
Counting all of these losses plus those in the supply chain - e.g. food suppliers and catering companies going to the wall through lack of custom - the carnage will be enormous. Through a combination of the 45-day deadline before the end of the furlough scheme and it becoming obvious that the problem with part-time schooling may continue indefinitely, I reckon we've a tsunami wave of P45s coming in September. Unemployment could easily be over 4 million by November 1st.
Out of interest, do any of the PB Tories believe that the government has handled the pandemic (as opposed to the Cummings affair) well?
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
I would say that all the component parts of the UK failed collectively at the onset of the crisis. Nicola should and could have dealt with the Nike ground zero outbreak in Edinburgh in February and been more pro - active, and to her credit she admits mistakes were made. All four leaders should have gone into lockdown quicker and defended care homes which across the nation has been a disaster. The football and Cheltenham should have been cancelled as well.
It therefore asks the question, why were they all blindsided and of course the common denominator is Cobra and the advice given and the obvious unanimity on the way forward. There has not been one leader who has demured on the early stages, and to be fair Nicola has accepted that errors were made, but cites the benefit of hindsight
Ulimately, the enquiry that is coming will be very interesting, but I would be very worried about the advice Sage and each PH body gave and just how well they reacted. The big question is how much got lost in the depths of the inner organisation of these bodies, and how long it took for the private sector to be commissioned on PPE etc
And this is my honest opinion and I am not trying to make political points
UK government were fully aware G, what did they do, the UK government and their tame scientists led by Cummings were on a different tack , they are the ones that were running the show at that time. How could Sturgeon have announced a lockdown in Scotland a month before the UK. They were following crap information trying not to follow WHO to show how great they were against the rest. Crap experts and crap politicians in Westminster are the root of it all.
Sadly Malc, Nicola has already admitted Scotlands mistakes over Nike ground zero, slow into lockdown, and the disaster in Scotlands care homes
I make a fair comment piece and you do a good impression of just utter denial and lash out
I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.
If one of them would like to give a summary to the thread I'd be grateful - because I don't personally have a clue.
I’ll kick off with schools restarting on 11 August, general construction work only at preparation stage for another 3 weeks minimum and out of doors meeting with a maximum of 8 persons - anyone else north of the border want to chip in?
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
On what grounds?
Because I defected to the LibDems. Bad naughty RP.
Oh dear. The Party is a long way from its chapel roots: I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety-nine just persons, which need no repentance. — Luke 15:7
I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.
If one of them would like to give a summary to the thread I'd be grateful - because I don't personally have a clue.
I’ll kick off with schools restarting on 11 August, general construction work only at preparation stage for another 3 weeks minimum and out of doors meeting with a maximum of 8 persons - anyone else north of the border want to chip in?
8 persons from 2 households. And takeaways not discouraged. (School holiday periods are different anyway even in normal times.)
Out of interest, do any of the PB Tories believe that the government has handled the pandemic (as opposed to the Cummings affair) well?
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
I would say that all the component parts of the UK failed collectively at the onset of the crisis. Nicola should and could have dealt with the Nike ground zero outbreak in Edinburgh in February and been more pro - active, and to her credit she admits mistakes were made. All four leaders should have gone into lockdown quicker and defended care homes which across the nation has been a disaster. The football and Cheltenham should have been cancelled as well.
It therefore asks the question, why were they all blindsided and of course the common denominator is Cobra and the advice given and the obvious unanimity on the way forward. There has not been one leader who has demured on the early stages, and to be fair Nicola has accepted that errors were made, but cites the benefit of hindsight
Ulimately, the enquiry that is coming will be very interesting, but I would be very worried about the advice Sage and each PH body gave and just how well they reacted. The big question is how much got lost in the depths of the inner organisation of these bodies, and how long it took for the private sector to be commissioned on PPE etc
And this is my honest opinion and I am not trying to make political points
The UK had a three week warning about what was happening in Italy and two weeks from Spain, they chose to let it rip when they could have locked down. I did suggest they should take advantage of this window on here. They didn’t and subsequently have come over as reactive with no structured forward planning, if it is structured and well planned they have done a poor job of selling it.
Out of interest, do any of the PB Tories believe that the government has handled the pandemic (as opposed to the Cummings affair) well?
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
I would say that all the component parts of the UK failed collectively at the onset of the crisis. Nicola should and could have dealt with the Nike ground zero outbreak in Edinburgh in February and been more pro - active, and to her credit she admits mistakes were made. All four leaders should have gone into lockdown quicker and defended care homes which across the nation has been a disaster. The football and Cheltenham should have been cancelled as well.
It therefore asks the question, why were they all blindsided and of course the common denominator is Cobra and the advice given and the obvious unanimity on the way forward. There has not been one leader who has demured on the early stages, and to be fair Nicola has accepted that errors were made, but cites the benefit of hindsight
Ulimately, the enquiry that is coming will be very interesting, but I would be very worried about the advice Sage and each PH body gave and just how well they reacted. The big question is how much got lost in the depths of the inner organisation of these bodies, and how long it took for the private sector to be commissioned on PPE etc
And this is my honest opinion and I am not trying to make political points
UK government were fully aware G, what did they do, the UK government and their tame scientists led by Cummings were on a different tack , they are the ones that were running the show at that time. How could Sturgeon have announced a lockdown in Scotland a month before the UK. They were following crap information trying not to follow WHO to show how great they were against the rest. Crap experts and crap politicians in Westminster are the root of it all.
Sadly Malc, Nicola has already admitted Scotlands mistakes over Nike ground zero, slow into lockdown, and the disaster in Scotlands care homes
I make a fair comment piece and you do a good impression of just utter denial and lash out
At least Nicola is the grown up
The point Malc is making is strongly corroborated by the presumably deliberate exclusion of the Scots and Welsh Gmts from the SAGE meetings. Edit: though it's so common for people in London to forget there is such a thing as devolution, that it could just be incompetent carelessness.
Out of interest, do any of the PB Tories believe that the government has handled the pandemic (as opposed to the Cummings affair) well?
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
I would say that all the component parts of the UK failed collectively at the onset of the crisis. Nicola should and could have dealt with the Nike ground zero outbreak in Edinburgh in February and been more pro - active, and to her credit she admits mistakes were made. All four leaders should have gone into lockdown quicker and defended care homes which across the nation has been a disaster. The football and Cheltenham should have been cancelled as well.
It therefore asks the question, why were they all blindsided and of course the common denominator is Cobra and the advice given and the obvious unanimity on the way forward. There has not been one leader who has demured on the early stages, and to be fair Nicola has accepted that errors were made, but cites the benefit of hindsight
Ulimately, the enquiry that is coming will be very interesting, but I would be very worried about the advice Sage and each PH body gave and just how well they reacted. The big question is how much got lost in the depths of the inner organisation of these bodies, and how long it took for the private sector to be commissioned on PPE etc
And this is my honest opinion and I am not trying to make political points
UK government were fully aware G, what did they do, the UK government and their tame scientists led by Cummings were on a different tack , they are the ones that were running the show at that time. How could Sturgeon have announced a lockdown in Scotland a month before the UK. They were following crap information trying not to follow WHO to show how great they were against the rest. Crap experts and crap politicians in Westminster are the root of it all.
And of course that's why we're still running at an estimated 8000 infections a day, but rushing to relax lockdown on the basis that other countries with only a tenth (or a hundredth) of that number are doing so.
One wonders what it would take for these people to learn a lesson.
One can only smile at the idea of the government deciding now that the furlough scheme is going to finish in October.
It's not June yet, and we're about to take a big leap in the dark. Who knows what July will be like, let alone October?
Yes. This obsession with a date having to be attached to every announcement is very strange. October is four months away. 4 months ago it was the end of January. A different world entirely. We could be in a state of almost pre-pandemic normality. Or being flattened by a second wave and deep in an economic depression.
It has to be done so companies have clarity.
We cannot just go on without making sensible forward announcements, irrespective of how popular they may be
And of course if dramatic changes happened so it would need to be addressed
Out of interest, do any of the PB Tories believe that the government has handled the pandemic (as opposed to the Cummings affair) well?
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
I would say that all the component parts of the UK failed collectively at the onset of the crisis. Nicola should and could have dealt with the Nike ground zero outbreak in Edinburgh in February and been more pro - active, and to her credit she admits mistakes were made. All four leaders should have gone into lockdown quicker and defended care homes which across the nation has been a disaster. The football and Cheltenham should have been cancelled as well.
It therefore asks the question, why were they all blindsided and of course the common denominator is Cobra and the advice given and the obvious unanimity on the way forward. There has not been one leader who has demured on the early stages, and to be fair Nicola has accepted that errors were made, but cites the benefit of hindsight
Ulimately, the enquiry that is coming will be very interesting, but I would be very worried about the advice Sage and each PH body gave and just how well they reacted. The big question is how much got lost in the depths of the inner organisation of these bodies, and how long it took for the private sector to be commissioned on PPE etc
And this is my honest opinion and I am not trying to make political points
UK government were fully aware G, what did they do, the UK government and their tame scientists led by Cummings were on a different tack , they are the ones that were running the show at that time. How could Sturgeon have announced a lockdown in Scotland a month before the UK. They were following crap information trying not to follow WHO to show how great they were against the rest. Crap experts and crap politicians in Westminster are the root of it all.
Sadly Malc, Nicola has already admitted Scotlands mistakes over Nike ground zero, slow into lockdown, and the disaster in Scotlands care homes
I make a fair comment piece and you do a good impression of just utter denial and lash out
At least Nicola is the grown up
The point Malc is making is strongly corroborated by the presumably deliberate exclusion of the Scots and Welsh Gmts from the SAGE meetings. Edit: though it's so common for people in London to forget there is such a thing as devolution, that it could just be incompetent carelessness.
I though the first ministers were at the SAGE meetings?
"So happy to be serfs In just a few short weeks we have cast aside freedoms it took centuries to win. Fawning faith in authority will lead to further outrages
Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
I am not surprised really , given that you were so recently openly campaigning for another party having quit Labour.
Indeed, party HQs and local party branches and associations might overlook voting for another party once or twice in the past when considering membership applications, they will not overlook openly campaigning for another party, especially only an election or 2 ago
Completely off-topic, but I've been watching the BBC's coverage of election nights. During the 2001 election night it strikes me how certain the pundits and politicians were that we were going to have a referendum on joining the Euro.
Anyway, one thing that puzzles me is that Frank Dobson said that joining at the current rate of exchange (around 1.67 to the pound) would be disastrous. Can someone who understands this better than I do, explain why that would have been the case?
Comments
There was an oddly fatalistic attitude to its spread to the UK.
Have to laugh. If they don't want me back as a 25 year veteran then how do they win back millions of Labour to Tory switchers?
Sounds like the last gasp of the "bugger off and join the Tories" message, which of course was so successful in the red wall seats.
Guessing if you tried again in 6 months it'd go through.
What would be worse is lots of different households regularly meeting. Boris did say this wasn't advised yesterday, but nowhere near strong enough.
being a racist nutteroops, being too closely aligned with Corbyn’s leadership.How come her name is still on the letter?
The current schemes have been exceptionally generous by international standards, but it’s now time for companies to start thinking about what their business looks like in the future, especially in terms of making redundancies. Asking companies to start paying partial salaries will help get these conversations going.
Over the next few months, the government support needs to taper from the furlough scheme levels towards standard UC levels for people who don’t have a job to go back to - it’s necessary but of course isn’t going to be popular, there’s probably a couple of million people initially going to be affected.
Govt looking at their 200k target I guess.
The reason I ask is that chatting away with 7 or 8 neighbours in the road after the Thursday clap a couple who I know to be Conservative voters weighed into the corona discussion by opining that they were completely embarrassed at the way the government had handled it. I was surprised at the strength of feeling which was unanimous and somebody did say that nobody could think they were doing a good job and it set me to wondering.
Misstep by Starmer, he should have taken advantage of the pandemic to put her on indefinite leave.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/29/barrow-journalist-hounded-out-of-cumbria-for-reporting-court-case
https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/amy-klobuchar-previously-declined-to-prosecute-cop/
In fact, it’s such a low bar I don’t think a limbo dancing mouse could get under it.
He only isn't because Sunak hasn't been included in the bizarre 'hate tory' meme. I think someone forgot to update their list.
I will say if there are signs that the original Andrew Adonis is back then that'd be good. He of 10 years ago was far better than hitherto.
It therefore asks the question, why were they all blindsided and of course the common denominator is Cobra and the advice given and the obvious unanimity on the way forward. There has not been one leader who has demured on the early stages, and to be fair Nicola has accepted that errors were made, but cites the benefit of hindsight
Ulimately, the enquiry that is coming will be very interesting, but I would be very worried about the advice Sage and each PH body gave and just how well they reacted. The big question is how much got lost in the depths of the inner organisation of these bodies, and how long it took for the private sector to be commissioned on PPE etc
And this is my honest opinion and I am not trying to make political points
Harris looking like the one.
General bluster is only really passable with broad brush questions.
It's not June yet, and we're about to take a big leap in the dark. Who knows what July will be like, let alone October?
Plus it's a guideline not a rule. If a family of five wants a couple over to visit then I'd expect them to use their common sense.
Hopefully Boris will head of to pastures new soon, and hopefully at the latest, immediately after brexit is concluded on the 31st December
https://twitter.com/JonathanTamari/status/1266410340813877248?s=19
There have been no recent leaders of any political party in the UK who has been numerically strong.
Brown may have claimed to be, but that was poppycock.
Maggie - decent enough I think, but nobody would dare test her.
Harder to know about the LD's, but if they have Cable as their great financial wizard then it's clear they're not running over with talent.
4 months ago it was the end of January. A different world entirely.
We could be in a state of almost pre-pandemic normality.
Or being flattened by a second wave and deep in an economic depression.
She wasn't subject to objections from a local faction more concerned to maintain the ideological purity of their local party than to accept that the party can only win as a coalition of different strands of the left who chooe to concentrate on what unites them. I presume that you were.
It's a shame anyway as you appear to be more supportive of the current leadership than many of those "inspired" by the previous leader.
*Social distancing in schools means that they cannot possibly accept all their pupils back full-time, which can only result in the mass sacking of working parents (albeit that much off the resultant unemployment may be offset by hirings of people without the same commitments)
*It also means that restaurants, even assuming that they are allowed to re-open, will go under because they can't cater for enough guests: essentially, losing most of their tables should also mean that most of these businesses will be wiped out, except for takeaways and perhaps a handful with very spacious premises and/or that offer high end cuisine at extortionate prices to very wealthy people
*Pubs, bars, nightclubs, cinemas and theatres probably still won't be open come the Autumn. The big brewery firms might be willing and able to mothball their tied houses and bring them back when this is all over, but the rest of these venues have had it. The Government might consider having mercy on museums and art galleries and allowing them to receive visitors, but the performance arts are basically finished as a sector, and the same goes for most of professional sport
*I expect that we'll still have some hotels at the end of all this but the numbers will be substantially reduced
Counting all of these losses plus those in the supply chain - e.g. food suppliers and catering companies going to the wall through lack of custom - the carnage will be enormous. Through a combination of the 45-day deadline before the end of the furlough scheme and it becoming obvious that the problem with part-time schooling may continue indefinitely, I reckon we've a tsunami wave of P45s coming in September. Unemployment could easily be over 4 million by November 1st.
I make a fair comment piece and you do a good impression of just utter denial and lash out
At least Nicola is the grown up
One wonders what it would take for these people to learn a lesson.
We cannot just go on without making sensible forward announcements, irrespective of how popular they may be
And of course if dramatic changes happened so it would need to be addressed
In just a few short weeks we have cast aside freedoms it took centuries to win. Fawning faith in authority will lead to further outrages
Peter Hitchens"
https://standpointmag.co.uk/issues/may-june-2020/so-happy-to-be-serfs/
Anyway, one thing that puzzles me is that Frank Dobson said that joining at the current rate of exchange (around 1.67 to the pound) would be disastrous. Can someone who understands this better than I do, explain why that would have been the case?