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edited May 2020 in General

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  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,171
    First.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    second
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Third. The worst.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,688
    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    Podium finish.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,602
    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,688
    So the public simultaneously support the new measures by a large margin, but also think things are going too fast by a large margin.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    That's better than the Brexiters' own understanding of Brexit - and I mean the politicians and agitators.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,602
    Carnyx said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    That's better than the Brexiters' own understanding of Brexit - and I mean the politicians and agitators.
    Indeed. It was notable the ERG had no plan for Brexit, and nor did Ukip, though both existed to campaign for it. I'm not even sure Boris and Dom have much idea where they want to end up, and how to get there.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,947
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    If one of them would like to give a summary to the thread I'd be grateful - because I don't personally have a clue.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,349
    FrankBooth said:

    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?

    This is really good: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/28/upshot/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html

    It's city-level, rather than country level, but it tells you that NYC is the nearest to herd immunity (at c. 20%), but it's still a long way from it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,072
    FrankBooth said:

    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?

    Blimey, it's either very asymptomatic, I've got an atypically uninfected group of friends and colleagues or people have kept quiet about it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    Unfortunately I doubt many people are now taking these "rules" seriously.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,602
    edited May 2020
    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 450
    First sighting of an open pub today in Cambridge, albeit takeaway
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    In other news, the monkeys are onto us. Steal virus, kill the humans! How long before this gets full on 'Planet of the Apes'?

    https://twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1266359066659602432
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,947
    edited May 2020
    RobD said:

    So the public simultaneously support the new measures by a large margin, but also think things are going too fast by a large margin.

    Yes. Isn't life unfair?

    Could be a lot more of this for the government now that they've trashed their reputation and trust. The public are sure that they're fucking it up somehow, even if they can't say how or why.

    It's the position that Major's government found there was no way back from.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    edited May 2020
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    That's better than the Brexiters' own understanding of Brexit - and I mean the politicians and agitators.
    Indeed. It was notable the ERG had no plan for Brexit, and nor did Ukip, though both existed to campaign for it. I'm not even sure Boris and Dom have much idea where they want to end up, and how to get there.
    I was thinking in terms of the morning after - only the SNP and the Scxottish Gmt seemed to have anything coherent to say (I may be unfair about Wales and the LDs). But yes. Quite so.

    Re the poll, I think it's based in part on approach and demeanour - e.g. what Mrs Sturgeon does not do is always look for a comic off the cuff quip. My partner commented that you could see Mr Johnson doing that, visibly, till he remembered himself, repeatedly, during the recent select committee interrogation.

    Also rather better [edit: deaths] figures overall (and that is even without the gap between covid-19 reported deaths and excess deaths you get in the English figures - a comparative anomaly which is still unexplained).
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    Pulpstar said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?

    Blimey, it's either very asymptomatic, I've got an atypically uninfected group of friends and colleagues or people have kept quiet about it.
    I think they found the spread has been mostly through key workers, so it depends on how many you know.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    Pulpstar said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?

    Blimey, it's either very asymptomatic, I've got an atypically uninfected group of friends and colleagues or people have kept quiet about it.
    My close circle numbers some 25 people of which 7 have had the virus. 3 had it bad but not quite hospital. Other 4 mild.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,602
    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    I'd like to know too please ...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Ah. Thanks.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    ukpaul said:

    In other news, the monkeys are onto us. Steal virus, kill the humans! How long before this gets full on 'Planet of the Apes'?

    https://twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1266359066659602432

    Humans are doing a pretty good job of spreading the disease already without simian assistance.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    edited May 2020
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    But you do need to factor in the very visibly different public personas of Ms Sturgeon and Mr Johnson when speaking publicly, as a lot of people will have been able to assess on TV.

    For instance, I don't recall Ms Stugeon diluting the lockdown warning with a suggestion she'd go to visit her mum anyway, or her father weighing in with moans about not being able to go to the pub.

    That in itself is a major public health issue - having the right presentation.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,146
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?

    Blimey, it's either very asymptomatic, I've got an atypically uninfected group of friends and colleagues or people have kept quiet about it.
    My close circle numbers some 25 people of which 7 have had the virus. 3 had it bad but not quite hospital. Other 4 mild.
    Confirmed by test or only by symptom (out of curiosity)?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,864
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1266395747362181120
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,864
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1266395122108899333
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited May 2020
    Carnyx said:

    But you do need to factor in the very visibly different public personas of Ms Sturgeon and Mr Johnson when speaking publicly, as a lot of people will have been able to assess on TV.

    For instance, I don't recall Ms Stugeon diluting the lockdown warning with a suggestion she'd go to visit her mum anyway, or her father weighing in with moans about not being able to go to the pub.

    That in itself is a major public health issue - having the right presentation.

    Yes, fair point.

    Boris started off with the wrong tone but then improved a lot once he realised the full severity of the crisis. Since his severe illness hit him he has understandably sounded not on full form.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    edited May 2020
    turbotubbs said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?

    Blimey, it's either very asymptomatic, I've got an atypically uninfected group of friends and colleagues or people have kept quiet about it.
    My close circle numbers some 25 people of which 7 have had the virus. 3 had it bad but not quite hospital. Other 4 mild.
    Confirmed by test or only by symptom (out of curiosity)?
    No tests. They all had it in the period when we were testing hospital patients only.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,947
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    Even that article falls for the myth slightly, in that it glosses over one of the interesting discrepancies where HMG have throughout asked people to work from home if they can, but to continue to leave home to work if they cannot - but it was British society that took the lockdown further and shut down everything that wasn't essential and couldn't continue from home (such as construction).

    I do think we have to ask why it was that we gave up on containment almost without trying, but I think that's as much a question for the scientists as it is for the politicians.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,784
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    In which case let's just focus on the UK and focus on the fact that the sum of their contributions has left us with the second highest per capita excess deaths in the world.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Update on the construction work situation in Hampshire. We are back to 100% from Monday, we have had numerous calls today regarding other projects starting over the next 2 weeks. We are now advertising for more staff.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,602
    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Which Prime Minister delayed responding to the pandemic because he was on a fortnight's holiday showing his fiancee round the bedrooms at Chevening, having not long returned from a Christmas break in Mustique?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,146
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    A fascinating read, and I suspect one that will be ignored forever by many who will just want to blame the (Tory) government. The public enquir(ies)y after this will be fascinating. Why have we done so poorly in keeping deaths down? Possibly too many seeded outbreaks across the country from all the skiing trips and business with China. Is our health system markedly poorer than our competitors? Maybe. We'll find out and then fight about the enquiry getting it wrong, as it was all Boris's fault.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Carnyx said:

    But you do need to factor in the very visibly different public personas of Ms Sturgeon and Mr Johnson when speaking publicly, as a lot of people will have been able to assess on TV.

    For instance, I don't recall Ms Stugeon diluting the lockdown warning with a suggestion she'd go to visit her mum anyway, or her father weighing in with moans about not being able to go to the pub.

    That in itself is a major public health issue - having the right presentation.

    Yes, fair point.

    Boris started off with the wrong tone but then improved a lot once he realised the full severity of the crisis. Since his severe illness hit him he has understandably sounded not on full form.
    Thank you, that's a fairer analysis, though he still seems to come out with the odd crack or spur of the moment decision/sweetie too often.

    It is still a striking result. To quibble, rather more than yout 99% will be familioar with Scottish procedures of course, being Scottish and able to compare it with the "UK" but in this context partly English news beamed in by the BBC etc. But not 41%!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,337
    The number of active cases has fallen below the number of closed cases for the first time in two months.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Which Prime Minister delayed responding to the pandemic because he was on a fortnight's holiday showing his fiancee round the bedrooms at Chevening, having not long returned from a Christmas break in Mustique?
    That isn't apocryphal!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    In which case let's just focus on the UK and focus on the fact that the sum of their contributions has left us with the second highest per capita excess deaths in the world.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

    https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker has a helpful table - about 4/5 of the way down the page.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,126
    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,146
    kinabalu said:

    turbotubbs said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?

    Blimey, it's either very asymptomatic, I've got an atypically uninfected group of friends and colleagues or people have kept quiet about it.
    My close circle numbers some 25 people of which 7 have had the virus. 3 had it bad but not quite hospital. Other 4 mild.
    Confirmed by test or only by symptom (out of curiosity)?
    No tests. They all had it in the period when we were testing hospital patients only.
    Be interesting to see any serology tests at some point - wife was ill late Feb and thought she 'might' have had it, but PHE blood test says no!
    I'm also fascinated by the people being tested currently (typically more than 70,000 a day) that are not Covid-19 positive - what are their symptoms?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    In which case let's just focus on the UK and focus on the fact that the sum of their contributions has left us with the second highest per capita excess deaths in the world.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

    Maybe. Probably not, though, and especially probably not once you correct for factors outside the government's control, such as population density, obesity, age distribution, and perhaps genetics.

    In a year or two's time it might be possible to begin to unravel the effects of the various factors.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,190
    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1266395122108899333

    He achieved his ambition by chicanery rather than on merit?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    turbotubbs said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    A fascinating read, and I suspect one that will be ignored forever by many who will just want to blame the (Tory) government. The public enquir(ies)y after this will be fascinating. Why have we done so poorly in keeping deaths down? Possibly too many seeded outbreaks across the country from all the skiing trips and business with China. Is our health system markedly poorer than our competitors? Maybe. We'll find out and then fight about the enquiry getting it wrong, as it was all Boris's fault.
    I genuinely do think the politiicians stood back and let the scientists run the show at the start
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,772
    houndtang said:

    First sighting of an open pub today in Cambridge, albeit takeaway

    I know a couple of pubs that have been providing food on a takeaway basis throughout - not sure it was ever against the rules, though their clientele was limited.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    In which case let's just focus on the UK and focus on the fact that the sum of their contributions has left us with the second highest per capita excess deaths in the world.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

    Maybe. Probably not, though, and especially probably not once you correct for factors outside the government's control, such as population density, obesity, age distribution, and perhaps genetics.

    In a year or two's time it might be possible to begin to unravel the effects of the various factors.
    THere's that too - but obesity etc. is also partly under public policy, and indeed the medical chap in the Eye seesn that as a further failure of government.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
    A Leaver then?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,602
    edited May 2020
    noneoftheabove said:

    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!

    Pubs with off licences can sell booze for off-premises consumption. Those without (which is most of them) cannot.

    ETA the people drinking should separately obey the social distancing rules.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    NerysHughes said:

    turbotubbs said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    A fascinating read, and I suspect one that will be ignored forever by many who will just want to blame the (Tory) government. The public enquir(ies)y after this will be fascinating. Why have we done so poorly in keeping deaths down? Possibly too many seeded outbreaks across the country from all the skiing trips and business with China. Is our health system markedly poorer than our competitors? Maybe. We'll find out and then fight about the enquiry getting it wrong, as it was all Boris's fault.
    I genuinely do think the politiicians stood back and let the scientists run the show at the start
    Well Cummings didn't. A Sage delegate from the start!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    We will never know how the scientists would have responded if they had been interrogated intelligently by an engaged Prime Minister alert to the growing dangers of a pandemic. Because the Prime Minister we had wasn't interested enough even to turn up to the relevant meetings.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Carnyx said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    In which case let's just focus on the UK and focus on the fact that the sum of their contributions has left us with the second highest per capita excess deaths in the world.

    https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

    Maybe. Probably not, though, and especially probably not once you correct for factors outside the government's control, such as population density, obesity, age distribution, and perhaps genetics.

    In a year or two's time it might be possible to begin to unravel the effects of the various factors.
    THere's that too - but obesity etc. is also partly under public policy, and indeed the medical chap in the Eye seesn that as a further failure of government.
    Yes, but not of this government particularly.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,089
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!

    Pubs with off licences can sell booze for off-premises consumption. Those without (which is most of them) cannot.

    ETA the people drinking should separately obey the social distancing rules.
    On the door of almost all English pubs it says "licenced to sell on or off the premises"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,190
    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
    A Leaver then?
    A Frenchman once got burned by Pam. Trying to flatter him, he said, ‘Monsieur, were I not French, I should wish to be English.’

    Back came the reply, ‘Well, if I were not English, I should also wish to be English.’

    In its own way that’s ironic because technically he was Irish. But that’s another story.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,190
    Mexicanpete said:

    NerysHughes said:

    turbotubbs said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    A fascinating read, and I suspect one that will be ignored forever by many who will just want to blame the (Tory) government. The public enquir(ies)y after this will be fascinating. Why have we done so poorly in keeping deaths down? Possibly too many seeded outbreaks across the country from all the skiing trips and business with China. Is our health system markedly poorer than our competitors? Maybe. We'll find out and then fight about the enquiry getting it wrong, as it was all Boris's fault.
    I genuinely do think the politiicians stood back and let the scientists run the show at the start
    Well Cummings didn't. A Sage delegate from the start!
    A SAGE delegate who didn’t know his onions, so we’re stuffed.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,126
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!

    Pubs with off licences can sell booze for off-premises consumption. Those without (which is most of them) cannot.

    ETA the people drinking should separately obey the social distancing rules.
    Thanks, I think the patrons were obeying the rules from Monday but not the current ones. If there had been any more though then it would be either blocking the road and/or reducing the social distancing, so the weekends might get tricky.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
    A Leaver then?
    A Frenchman once got burned by Pam. Trying to flatter him, he said, ‘Monsieur, were I not French, I should wish to be English.’

    Back came the reply, ‘Well, if I were not English, I should also wish to be English.’

    In its own way that’s ironic because technically he was Irish. But that’s another story.
    History was not this fascinating at Ledbury Grammar School! Just the dreary Tudors and Stuarts (I am sure you won't concur).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,602
    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
    It was taught by his favourite history teacher to David Cameron (and therefore perhaps to Boris as well). On the other hand, our leading historian of the Victorian age, Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg, does not mention Palmerston's death one way or the other.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    NerysHughes said:

    turbotubbs said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    A fascinating read, and I suspect one that will be ignored forever by many who will just want to blame the (Tory) government. The public enquir(ies)y after this will be fascinating. Why have we done so poorly in keeping deaths down? Possibly too many seeded outbreaks across the country from all the skiing trips and business with China. Is our health system markedly poorer than our competitors? Maybe. We'll find out and then fight about the enquiry getting it wrong, as it was all Boris's fault.
    I genuinely do think the politiicians stood back and let the scientists run the show at the start
    Well Cummings didn't. A Sage delegate from the start!
    A SAGE delegate who didn’t know his onions, so we’re stuffed.
    His thyme will come! Enough!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,297
    https://prod.flowapp.com/s/g5eEQ2k7Qm?refToken=EM&utm_source=emailmarketing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_mailer__28_may_2020&utm_content=2020-05-29

    This just in my in box for the historians among us - talk from TNA on the Tudor responses to pandemics, social distancing etc.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    More costs for employers:

    https://twitter.com/PPJamesPhillips/status/1266400130804125699?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,190
    Cannock town centre was absolutely heaving today. Never seen it so busy. That’s all the weirder as there was of course no market.

    The weather, ennui and Dominic Cummings have between them destroyed lockdown.

    If we need a second wave lockdown it doesn’t look like there’ll be one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,190
    edited May 2020
    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
    A Leaver then?
    A Frenchman once got burned by Pam. Trying to flatter him, he said, ‘Monsieur, were I not French, I should wish to be English.’

    Back came the reply, ‘Well, if I were not English, I should also wish to be English.’

    In its own way that’s ironic because technically he was Irish. But that’s another story.
    History was not this fascinating at Ledbury Grammar School! Just the dreary Tudors and Stuarts (I am sure you won't concur).
    Wouldn’t know, I was at Newent not Ledbury.

    Edit - our history teacher did tell us these stories about Palmerston though.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,868
    AlastairMeeks said:

    More costs for employers:

    https://twitter.com/PPJamesPhillips/status/1266400130804125699?s=20

    Just a polite question.

    How long do you think the UK can continue with the present schemes or is it correct to start mitigating the cost in incremental increases.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
    A Leaver then?
    A Frenchman once got burned by Pam. Trying to flatter him, he said, ‘Monsieur, were I not French, I should wish to be English.’

    Back came the reply, ‘Well, if I were not English, I should also wish to be English.’

    In its own way that’s ironic because technically he was Irish. But that’s another story.
    History was not this fascinating at Ledbury Grammar School! Just the dreary Tudors and Stuarts (I am sure you won't concur).
    Wouldn’t know, I was at Newent not Ledbury.

    Edit - our history teacher did tell us these stories about Palmerston though.
    I was refering to the dishwater dull Tudors and Stuarts!

    Small world nonetheless.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,089
    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    NerysHughes said:

    turbotubbs said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    The comparison with Scotland - which as several have said is a subject on which 99% of the population know precisely nothing - is a poll on the effect of media attacks on the UK government over this issue.

    The whole thing has become (even before Cummings' jaunts) absurdly politicised. As this article points out very persuasively, a myth has been developed by the media which is simply not supported by the facts:

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-lockdowns-founding-myth/

    Of course, myths matter more than reality in politics, so this is very bad news for the Conservatives. They should have got their own myth out first.

    A fascinating read, and I suspect one that will be ignored forever by many who will just want to blame the (Tory) government. The public enquir(ies)y after this will be fascinating. Why have we done so poorly in keeping deaths down? Possibly too many seeded outbreaks across the country from all the skiing trips and business with China. Is our health system markedly poorer than our competitors? Maybe. We'll find out and then fight about the enquiry getting it wrong, as it was all Boris's fault.
    I genuinely do think the politiicians stood back and let the scientists run the show at the start
    Well Cummings didn't. A Sage delegate from the start!
    A SAGE delegate who didn’t know his onions, so we’re stuffed.
    His thyme will come! Enough!
    He's hoping for Herb Immunity.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,885
    AlastairMeeks said:

    More costs for employers:

    https://twitter.com/PPJamesPhillips/status/1266400130804125699?s=20

    Yep - and they need to bear them.

    Capitalism cuts both ways.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,640
    noneoftheabove said:

    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!

    On behalf of a friend, where might this pub be?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,641
    edited May 2020
    AlastairMeeks said:

    More costs for employers:

    https://twitter.com/PPJamesPhillips/status/1266400130804125699?s=20

    It's a subtle nudge to push companies to make staff redundant (or bring them back, of course). That only Costa the government £700 per month in UC rather than £2000 for the furlough.

    I think it sort of makes sense because some businesses do need a starting gun for reopening.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,190
    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
    A Leaver then?
    A Frenchman once got burned by Pam. Trying to flatter him, he said, ‘Monsieur, were I not French, I should wish to be English.’

    Back came the reply, ‘Well, if I were not English, I should also wish to be English.’

    In its own way that’s ironic because technically he was Irish. But that’s another story.
    History was not this fascinating at Ledbury Grammar School! Just the dreary Tudors and Stuarts (I am sure you won't concur).
    Wouldn’t know, I was at Newent not Ledbury.

    Edit - our history teacher did tell us these stories about Palmerston though.
    I was refering to the dishwater dull Tudors and Stuarts!

    Small world nonetheless.
    Oh yes, agree with you all the time there. In terms of my knowledge I jump straight from The Wars of the Roses to the French Revolution.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,798
    edited May 2020
    OldKingCole said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!

    On behalf of a friend, where might this pub be?
    I so want it to be Barnard Castle....just to see all the journos rush off there for a, er, vox pop...yeah, that'll be it, a vox pop.....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,330
    Rishi gives a shout out to CCS. Top bloke.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,640
    edited May 2020
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    FrankBooth said:

    Third. The worst.

    No, second is worst. The silver medallist hoped to win, and failed. The bronze medallist hoped to come fifth or sixth and outperformed or got lucky. Keep that in mind if we ever get round to the 2020 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
    So who was playing billiards with the maid? I have Googled and failed.
    Palmerston.
    Is it apocryphal? I am sure in 200 years this story might well be attributed to Johnson.
    Probably:

    https://www.hertfordshirelife.co.uk/home/the-dramatic-life-and-passing-of-prime-minister-lord-palmerston-1-4288750

    I think it’s more likely to be an urban legend inspired by the ummm, energetic death of President Félix Fauré in 1899.

    Which is ironic because Palmerston hated the French.
    It was taught by his favourite history teacher to David Cameron (and therefore perhaps to Boris as well). On the other hand, our leading historian of the Victorian age, Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg, does not mention Palmerston's death one way or the other.
    It was probably after his time.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited May 2020
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    More costs for employers:

    https://twitter.com/PPJamesPhillips/status/1266400130804125699?s=20

    Just a polite question.

    How long do you think the UK can continue with the present schemes or is it correct to start mitigating the cost in incremental increases.
    I’m not an economist. But with the government borrowing more in April than it intended to for the year, and with Covid-19 ruining public finances in the short term far worse than the crisis of 2008 did, the answer must be: not indefinitely.

    I don’t particularly disagree with this decision. It has, however, consequences, many of which will be unwelcome.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,126
    OldKingCole said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!

    On behalf of a friend, where might this pub be?
    Snowsfields, near London Bridge.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    A statesman tweets:

    https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1266400635429310466?s=20
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,349
    Pulpstar said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've seen a 7% infection rate quoted in England. Do we know anything about infection rates in other countries?

    Blimey, it's either very asymptomatic, I've got an atypically uninfected group of friends and colleagues or people have kept quiet about it.
    Well, it's also very regional.

    In London, around one-in-six people have antibodies.

    While in Shrewsbury, you'll be lucky if you can find six people with antibodies.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    You can get a drink in Hoxton Square, my sources tell me.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,924
    Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,355
    edited May 2020
    NickPalmer said:

    houndtang said:

    First sighting of an open pub today in Cambridge, albeit takeaway

    I know a couple of pubs that have been providing food on a takeaway basis throughout - not sure it was ever against the rules, though their clientele was limited.
    Not it never was against the lockdown rules. The government specifically said they could (despite in normal times not being within their licences).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,848
    LostPassword said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    If one of them would like to give a summary to the thread I'd be grateful - because I don't personally have a clue.
    Palmerston is the answer to that, too.
    (See his reputed answer about the Schleswig Holstein Question.)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    The UK has set itself on a collision course with China after broadening its offer on extended visa rights from 350,000 to almost 3m Hong Kong residents.

    After Beijing announced plans this week to proceed with the imposition of a national security law on Hong Kong, London retaliated with an “unprecedented” pledge to expand visa rights for British National (Overseas) passport holders in Hong Kong from six to 12 months and “provide a pathway to future citizenship”.

    About 350,000 people hold valid BNO passports, a document issued to Hong Kong residents born before the handover of the territory from UK to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.

    However, the Home Office clarified on Friday that the pledge to extend visa rights would apply to anyone eligible to apply for a BNO passport currently living in Hong Kong, of which there are estimated to be about 2.9m. Most of the additional 2.55m people have held a BNO passport in the past but not renewed it.

    https://www.ft.com/content/06e30290-1fcb-44cb-9ed6-5f4b0e7ff565

    Good thing too - the government has finally found a spine....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,940
    LostPassword said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    I doubt there are more than three people in the country with a detailed knowledge of the differences between England's and Scotland's handling of the pandemic.

    If one of them would like to give a summary to the thread I'd be grateful - because I don't personally have a clue.
    One difference is Scotland can have 8 people whereas I think England was 6, Scotland was one household , think England may be any Tom Dick or Harry
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,190
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*

    Your choice or theirs?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,126
    noneoftheabove said:

    OldKingCole said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!

    On behalf of a friend, where might this pub be?
    Snowsfields, near London Bridge.
    This might be more use to your friend (if they are in or near London):

    https://www.mylondon.news/whats-on/food-drink-news/89-london-pubs-you-can-18310902
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,640
    noneoftheabove said:

    OldKingCole said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    On my walk today saw a pub openly selling pints in plastic cups, then people drinking them on the road outside. Is this even vaguely legal? If so, why isnt everyone doing it?

    Asking out of curiosity rather than any desire to dob them in!

    On behalf of a friend, where might this pub be?
    Snowsfields, near London Bridge.
    Ah, the Smoke. It be a long way to Lunnon for us Essex folk.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,330
    AlastairMeeks said:

    You can get a drink in Hoxton Square, my sources tell me.

    Do they have a Tesco?

    Get your drink, sit on a bench outside a closed pub. Just the same, but half the cost.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    ydoethur said:

    Cannock town centre was absolutely heaving today. Never seen it so busy. That’s all the weirder as there was of course no market.

    The weather, ennui and Dominic Cummings have between them destroyed lockdown.

    If we need a second wave lockdown it doesn’t look like there’ll be one.

    Like a bloody Butlins holiday camp along my street, so many people are meeting up, having kids friends around, chatting over drinks in the garden etc etc.

    The bbqs are starting to be lit up judging by the sniff of the breeze.

    As I have said all along there was no way the lockdown would last too long as too much for people.

    But I'm not sure why small businesses with only a handful of employees (the number six comes to mind funnily) aren't being told to get back to work, seeing that is less contact than the constant stream of comings and goings in gardens.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,072
    CarlottaVance said:

    A statesman tweets:

    https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1266400635429310466?s=20

    Always a class act.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,868
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    More costs for employers:

    https://twitter.com/PPJamesPhillips/status/1266400130804125699?s=20

    Just a polite question.

    How long do you think the UK can continue with the present schemes or is it correct to start mitigating the cost in incremental increases.
    I’m not an economist. But with the government borrowing more in April than it intended to for the year, and with Covid-19 ruining public finances in the short term far worse than the crisis of 2008 did, the answer must be: not indefinitely.

    I don’t particularly disagree with this decision. It has, however, consequences, many of which will be unwelcome.
    To be honest Alastair, there are no good options from here but the biggest difficulty is that lockdown is easy and popular, but coming out of it is going to be very hard and many changes are going to happen to employment and the nature of jobs

    I expect these decisions with define this government and being popular may well be very hard to maintain
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,337
    ydoethur said:

    Cannock town centre was absolutely heaving today. Never seen it so busy. That’s all the weirder as there was of course no market.

    The weather, ennui and Dominic Cummings have between them destroyed lockdown.

    If we need a second wave lockdown it doesn’t look like there’ll be one.

    People have to take personal responsibility and decide whether to do the right thing or not.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,868
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*

    You are joking
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SandyRentool said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    You can get a drink in Hoxton Square, my sources tell me.

    Do they have a Tesco?

    Get your drink, sit on a bench outside a closed pub. Just the same, but half the cost.
    This is more the organic/bio wine sort of drink than the Super T sort of drink.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    https://twitter.com/taylorswift13/status/1266392274549776387

    Let's hope many of her 86m young followers who are American turn out in November.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,330
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Breaking news - my application to join the Labour Party has been rejected! *giggles*

    No room for Trots in Starmer's Labour, Comrade!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    Rishi swerves around whether a 2nd peak lockdown will be supported by furlough etc
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