An ipaper journalist reports the Home Office is about to up the ante on HK by mooting offering all 2.9m HK residents citizenship.
Not just the 330,000 BNOs passport holders.
Now that IS ballsy
Priti Patel is clearly the 'hawk' in the cabinet.
I am not convinced tweaking China's nose over Hong Kong, although admirable in many ways, does not have potential downsides too.
What are they going to do about it?
Offering the people of Hong Kong British citizenship is morally the right thing to do. Not a tweak to China.
Back before 97, the Chinese government said that if the UK offered mass citizenship, or setup a completely democratic government in the colony, they would simply invade.
Wouldn't it be more useful to ask people whether or not they accept the result of the referendum and think it's time to move on to other things?
Like whether we should extend the transition or try to replumb our relationship with the rest of Europe in the middle of dealing with a pandemic?
Why on earth would we extend transition? It would be insanity.
We need to replumb the economy now due to the pandemic. The relationship with Europe is incidental but why go through two sets of replumbing rather than get all the work done at once?
What part of dealing with the pandemic necessitates detaching ourselves from the single market?
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
@ Andy Cooke "People immediately start quoting the low death rates for these demographics that we've managed to achieve and using them to argue that the restrictions are actually unnecessary."
Reminds me of a time SeanT, formerly (and currently?) of this site, mocked the hurricane evacuations in the US once, because millions were evacuated for only a couple of deaths.
That single peak with a long fat tail fits what I see locally. We finish the month with the same number of covid-19 inpatients as a month ago.
Given that this matches both the predictions, and what other countries have seen, I am not suprised.
At Winchester they had 75 Covid patients at peak and are now down to 6 with only 1 in ICU, its a similar story at Bournemouth hospital. Both have numerous closed wards due to lack of demand.
An ipaper journalist reports the Home Office is about to up the ante on HK by mooting offering all 2.9m HK residents citizenship.
Not just the 330,000 BNOs passport holders.
Now that IS ballsy
Priti Patel is clearly the 'hawk' in the cabinet.
I am not convinced tweaking China's nose over Hong Kong, although admirable in many ways, does not have potential downsides too.
What are they going to do about it?
Offering the people of Hong Kong British citizenship is morally the right thing to do. Not a tweak to China.
Back before 97, the Chinese government said that if the UK offered mass citizenship, or setup a completely democratic government in the colony, they would simply invade.
Well, I guess that threat doesn't work any more now they've got control of the place!
Unless they're going to invade us, of course.
The deal negotiated was limited - "tamed" - democracy allowed, in combination with a relatively independent judiciary etc. I - and many people in HK - thought it was far better than the most likely outcomes, for China and HK.
If the Chinese Communist party are going to go all -
Wouldn't it be more useful to ask people whether or not they accept the result of the referendum and think it's time to move on to other things?
You can ask both questions, they're both interesting. Although "accepting" the results of the referendum is ambiguous. In the narrowest sense it means accepting the fact that it happened and Leave won (I accept). A bit less narrow, accepting that the result carries moral legitimacy and wasn't won on a combination of lies and nativist bollocks (I don't accept). A bit less narrow, accepting that there is no immediate prospect of overturning it and seeking to rejoin the EU (I accept, for now). Even less narrow, believe the question is closed for a generation or more and the European question is no longer a valid one in UK politics (I don't accept). Unless your question were made less ambiguous I wouldn't see it as a very useful guide to public opinion, TBH - as you can see, my answer would depend how I interpreted it.
@ Andy Cooke "People immediately start quoting the low death rates for these demographics that we've managed to achieve and using them to argue that the restrictions are actually unnecessary."
Reminds me of a time SeanT, formerly (and currently?) of this site, mocked the hurricane evacuations in the US once, because millions were evacuated for only a couple of deaths.
I was in Florida a few years ago, and a British friend seemed to think that mocking the setup on the big highways to turn them to out-of-town on both sides, on demand was... funny/stupid.
Curious. Where's this 'Mighty Boris versus The Media' thing coming from? (One or two Boris admirers on here have also been relentlessly pushing it.) The media were also overwhelmingly hostile to the Iraq War, so are we now canonizing Tone for his defiance on that occasion? This all smacks of inventing imaginary adversaries for Boris to conquer. His supporters should be concerned that they feel the need to do this.
Indeed, but I was also referring to the subject matter he picked
All the Brexiteers rejoicing at the closure of the Barcelona plant failed to notice that they didn't say production was moving to Sunderland. In their call, Nissan mentioned Sunderland, er, not at all...
So if BoZo shielding Cummings is the same as Sunderland voting for Brexit, that may not work out to his advantage.
You're really longing for that factory to close with the accompanying job losses aren't you? And you're not alone. How did you get here?
It was reported today Nissan will concentrate on the US and Japanese market while Renault will concentrate on the European market.
If true WTO terms Brexit may not hit Nissan Sunderland much at all and a US trade deal could even boost it
Why is that pile of absolute crap - Nissan my put some focus in the US but they won't be exporting cars from Sunderland there as they already have factories in the US.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
An ipaper journalist reports the Home Office is about to up the ante on HK by mooting offering all 2.9m HK residents citizenship.
Not just the 330,000 BNOs passport holders.
Now that IS ballsy
Priti Patel is clearly the 'hawk' in the cabinet.
I am not convinced tweaking China's nose over Hong Kong, although admirable in many ways, does not have potential downsides too.
What are they going to do about it?
Offering the people of Hong Kong British citizenship is morally the right thing to do. Not a tweak to China.
Back before 97, the Chinese government said that if the UK offered mass citizenship, or setup a completely democratic government in the colony, they would simply invade.
Well, I guess that threat doesn't work any more now they've got control of the place!
Unless they're going to invade us, of course.
The deal negotiated was limited - "tamed" - democracy allowed, in combination with a relatively independent judiciary etc. I - and many people in HK - thought it was far better than the most likely outcomes, for China and HK.
If the Chinese Communist party are going to go all -
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
One of the reasons for the government to not extend the transition is so that being out of the single market has as much time as possible to become the new normal before the next general election.
I find it very unlikely that the electorate will be clamouring for yet more trade-related disruption by voting to rejoin the single market once left.
Wouldn't it be more useful to ask people whether or not they accept the result of the referendum and think it's time to move on to other things?
Like whether we should extend the transition or try to replumb our relationship with the rest of Europe in the middle of dealing with a pandemic?
Why on earth would we extend transition? It would be insanity.
We need to replumb the economy now due to the pandemic. The relationship with Europe is incidental but why go through two sets of replumbing rather than get all the work done at once?
What part of dealing with the pandemic necessitates detaching ourselves from the single market?
Because they can disguise the epic clusterfuck which is the UK ripping up every trade agreement we have by blaming the effects on the pandemic. Why are we having to restrict movement and impose restrictions on how you shop? Because the pandemic. Why are the supermarket shelves empty? Because the pandemic. Why have you lost your job? Because the pandemic.
Think about it. What an opportunity to restructure the economy. Offer the mass of pandemic unemployed a new job with no security or rights and they'll lap it up and thank you for it. Trebles all round!
An ipaper journalist reports the Home Office is about to up the ante on HK by mooting offering all 2.9m HK residents citizenship.
Not just the 330,000 BNOs passport holders.
Now that IS ballsy
Priti Patel is clearly the 'hawk' in the cabinet.
I am not convinced tweaking China's nose over Hong Kong, although admirable in many ways, does not have potential downsides too.
What are they going to do about it?
Offering the people of Hong Kong British citizenship is morally the right thing to do. Not a tweak to China.
Back before 97, the Chinese government said that if the UK offered mass citizenship, or setup a completely democratic government in the colony, they would simply invade.
Well, I guess that threat doesn't work any more now they've got control of the place!
Unless they're going to invade us, of course.
The deal negotiated was limited - "tamed" - democracy allowed, in combination with a relatively independent judiciary etc. I - and many people in HK - thought it was far better than the most likely outcomes, for China and HK.
If the Chinese Communist party are going to go all -
As Brexit keeps being mentioned its instructive to look beyond the culture war that some rampers insist it is about as to why normal punters up here on Teesside and elsewhere voted for it. And why non-voting people voted for the first and last time for it.
Brexit is the silver bullet magic wand, the one size fits all solution to all your problems. Don't like the darkies? Brexit. Think things were better at some unspecified point in the past? Brexit. Want more people like you to live near you? Brexit. Can't get a job? Brexit. 30 years of things getting harder and you want better times for your kids? Brexit. Its about culture and about opportunity, and of those two things give people cash and nice holidays and a new iPhone and suddenly Romanians washing that nice new car you have on finance is less of a problem.
We left the EU at the end of January. Get Brexit Done remember? It is done. And most normals have moved on - they now want those better times they were promised. The Pandemic has made things a lot lot worse but thats different. However, as we head through the winter and no deal makes for fun times, people aren't going to say "good, I'm glad that we are queueing outside the supermarkets for half an hour in the freezing rain and there's fuck all to buy, stick that you remoaners". When 3m+ lose their jobs off the end of furlough and there's no jobs to be had they won't be cheering on Boris. It'll be what we're already starting to see in the Tory press - "this isn't the Brexit I voted for".
Would really help some of our most foamy Tories to consider just for a moment that what they think isn't automatically what new Brexit leaning first time Tory voters think. Lose their support and you lose all hope of winning a majority. They aren't ideologically wedded to the same things as you - they can't afford to be. They just want better times, and if you don't deliver they won't be happy...
Lose Leavers who want the transition period ended in December and never mind winning a majority, the Tories would be lucky to avoid coming 3rd behind Labour and the Brexit Party
Normals *don't care* about transition periods. They got Brexit done. What they want are all the benefits they were promised. You are still foaming at the mouth about Brexit betrayals, they aren't.
63% of Tory voters and 68% of Leave voters want the transition period ended in December, they are
Curious. Where's this 'Mighty Boris versus The Media' thing coming from? (One or two Boris admirers on here have also been relentlessly pushing it.) The media were also overwhelmingly hostile to the Iraq War, so are we now canonizing Tone for his defiance on that occasion? This all smacks of inventing imaginary adversaries for Boris to conquer. His supporters should be concerned that they feel the need to do this.
Indeed, but I was also referring to the subject matter he picked
All the Brexiteers rejoicing at the closure of the Barcelona plant failed to notice that they didn't say production was moving to Sunderland. In their call, Nissan mentioned Sunderland, er, not at all...
So if BoZo shielding Cummings is the same as Sunderland voting for Brexit, that may not work out to his advantage.
You're really longing for that factory to close with the accompanying job losses aren't you? And you're not alone. How did you get here?
It was reported today Nissan will concentrate on the US and Japanese market while Renault will concentrate on the European market.
If true WTO terms Brexit may not hit Nissan Sunderland much at all and a US trade deal could even boost it
Why is that pile of absolute crap - Nissan my put some focus in the US but they won't be exporting cars from Sunderland there as they already have factories in the US.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
The other interpretation is that if Nissan is focusing on the US market, they don't need a factory in the wrong continent. It's an incredibly productive factory with a great workforce and supply chains, so hopefully they will find a way to keep it open, but right now it is there for the EU market, that is why Nissan built it in the EU.
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
Interesting, but way over my head, let alone theirs!
Curious. Where's this 'Mighty Boris versus The Media' thing coming from? (One or two Boris admirers on here have also been relentlessly pushing it.) The media were also overwhelmingly hostile to the Iraq War, so are we now canonizing Tone for his defiance on that occasion? This all smacks of inventing imaginary adversaries for Boris to conquer. His supporters should be concerned that they feel the need to do this.
Indeed, but I was also referring to the subject matter he picked
All the Brexiteers rejoicing at the closure of the Barcelona plant failed to notice that they didn't say production was moving to Sunderland. In their call, Nissan mentioned Sunderland, er, not at all...
So if BoZo shielding Cummings is the same as Sunderland voting for Brexit, that may not work out to his advantage.
You're really longing for that factory to close with the accompanying job losses aren't you? And you're not alone. How did you get here?
It was reported today Nissan will concentrate on the US and Japanese market while Renault will concentrate on the European market.
If true WTO terms Brexit may not hit Nissan Sunderland much at all and a US trade deal could even boost it
Why is that pile of absolute crap - Nissan my put some focus in the US but they won't be exporting cars from Sunderland there as they already have factories in the US.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
The other interpretation is that if Nissan is focusing on the US market, they don't need a factory in the wrong continent. It's an incredibly productive factory with a great workforce and supply chains, so hopefully they will find a way to keep it open, but right now it is there for the EU market, that is why Nissan built it in the EU.
It seems you are unable to separate facts from commentary.
But hey I only here stuff directly not 2nd hand with crap commentary afterwards.
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
That last one is great!
What is the third largest political party in the UK? with the bonus question: Which politician failed to answer this question correctly on QI despite being a member of that party?
Curious. Where's this 'Mighty Boris versus The Media' thing coming from? (One or two Boris admirers on here have also been relentlessly pushing it.) The media were also overwhelmingly hostile to the Iraq War, so are we now canonizing Tone for his defiance on that occasion? This all smacks of inventing imaginary adversaries for Boris to conquer. His supporters should be concerned that they feel the need to do this.
Indeed, but I was also referring to the subject matter he picked
All the Brexiteers rejoicing at the closure of the Barcelona plant failed to notice that they didn't say production was moving to Sunderland. In their call, Nissan mentioned Sunderland, er, not at all...
So if BoZo shielding Cummings is the same as Sunderland voting for Brexit, that may not work out to his advantage.
You're really longing for that factory to close with the accompanying job losses aren't you? And you're not alone. How did you get here?
It was reported today Nissan will concentrate on the US and Japanese market while Renault will concentrate on the European market.
If true WTO terms Brexit may not hit Nissan Sunderland much at all and a US trade deal could even boost it
Why is that pile of absolute crap - Nissan my put some focus in the US but they won't be exporting cars from Sunderland there as they already have factories in the US.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
The other interpretation is that if Nissan is focusing on the US market, they don't need a factory in the wrong continent. It's an incredibly productive factory with a great workforce and supply chains, so hopefully they will find a way to keep it open, but right now it is there for the EU market, that is why Nissan built it in the EU.
Or it would be the only factory Nissan keeps in Europe still supplying the European market, Renault mainly supplying the European market with factories on the continent
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
One of the reasons for the government to not extend the transition is so that being out of the single market has as much time as possible to become the new normal before the next general election.
I find it very unlikely that the electorate will be clamouring for yet more trade-related disruption by voting to rejoin the single market once left.
Assuming WTO terms with the EU is going great by the next general election, I agree
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
One of the reasons for the government to not extend the transition is so that being out of the single market has as much time as possible to become the new normal before the next general election.
I find it very unlikely that the electorate will be clamouring for yet more trade-related disruption by voting to rejoin the single market once left.
I can't see how joining the single market would lead to much 'trade related disruption'. I accept there's a narrow political argument for not extending so it's the "new normal" by the time of the next election mind.
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
One of the reasons for the government to not extend the transition is so that being out of the single market has as much time as possible to become the new normal before the next general election.
I find it very unlikely that the electorate will be clamouring for yet more trade-related disruption by voting to rejoin the single market once left.
Assuming WTO terms with the EU is going great by the next general election, I agree
What WTO terms - the WTO is dead - and without it there are no terms. the EU can impose any conditions it wants and we will just have to accept them to export there.
Curious. Where's this 'Mighty Boris versus The Media' thing coming from? (One or two Boris admirers on here have also been relentlessly pushing it.) The media were also overwhelmingly hostile to the Iraq War, so are we now canonizing Tone for his defiance on that occasion? This all smacks of inventing imaginary adversaries for Boris to conquer. His supporters should be concerned that they feel the need to do this.
Indeed, but I was also referring to the subject matter he picked
All the Brexiteers rejoicing at the closure of the Barcelona plant failed to notice that they didn't say production was moving to Sunderland. In their call, Nissan mentioned Sunderland, er, not at all...
So if BoZo shielding Cummings is the same as Sunderland voting for Brexit, that may not work out to his advantage.
You're really longing for that factory to close with the accompanying job losses aren't you? And you're not alone. How did you get here?
It was reported today Nissan will concentrate on the US and Japanese market while Renault will concentrate on the European market.
If true WTO terms Brexit may not hit Nissan Sunderland much at all and a US trade deal could even boost it
Why is that pile of absolute crap - Nissan my put some focus in the US but they won't be exporting cars from Sunderland there as they already have factories in the US.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
The other interpretation is that if Nissan is focusing on the US market, they don't need a factory in the wrong continent. It's an incredibly productive factory with a great workforce and supply chains, so hopefully they will find a way to keep it open, but right now it is there for the EU market, that is why Nissan built it in the EU.
Or it would be the only factory Nissan keeps in Europe still supplying the European market, Renault mainly supplying the European market with factories on the continent
That would be the hope, I was simply responding to your assertion that Nissan was focusing on the US, which isn't great news for a factory based in Europe. I doubt they will rush to close the factory on Wearside because it's so productive, but I worry about its medium to long term prospects, which haven't been helped by Brexit.
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
That last one is great!
What is the third largest political party in the UK? with the bonus question: Which politician failed to answer this question correctly on QI despite being a member of that party?
Slam dunk of a question, love it. I can put the clip up too.
Curious. Where's this 'Mighty Boris versus The Media' thing coming from? (One or two Boris admirers on here have also been relentlessly pushing it.) The media were also overwhelmingly hostile to the Iraq War, so are we now canonizing Tone for his defiance on that occasion? This all smacks of inventing imaginary adversaries for Boris to conquer. His supporters should be concerned that they feel the need to do this.
Indeed, but I was also referring to the subject matter he picked
All the Brexiteers rejoicing at the closure of the Barcelona plant failed to notice that they didn't say production was moving to Sunderland. In their call, Nissan mentioned Sunderland, er, not at all...
So if BoZo shielding Cummings is the same as Sunderland voting for Brexit, that may not work out to his advantage.
You're really longing for that factory to close with the accompanying job losses aren't you? And you're not alone. How did you get here?
It was reported today Nissan will concentrate on the US and Japanese market while Renault will concentrate on the European market.
If true WTO terms Brexit may not hit Nissan Sunderland much at all and a US trade deal could even boost it
Why is that pile of absolute crap - Nissan my put some focus in the US but they won't be exporting cars from Sunderland there as they already have factories in the US.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
The other interpretation is that if Nissan is focusing on the US market, they don't need a factory in the wrong continent. It's an incredibly productive factory with a great workforce and supply chains, so hopefully they will find a way to keep it open, but right now it is there for the EU market, that is why Nissan built it in the EU.
It seems you are unable to separate facts from commentary.
But hey I only here stuff directly not 2nd hand with crap commentary afterwards.
I note Denmark/Norway are opening up travel between themselves whilst excluding Sweden. We're going to be Billy No Mates for a while on that front I think.
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
I think you of all people (having voted remain) realise that many many people at the last election did not vote on the single issue of Brexit. Most who voted Tory did so to keep the Terrorist Sympathising Anti-Semite out of No 10. Even if Brexit was a major issue at the last GE it wont be at the next, except in the mind of Brexit obsessed Tories, who will go "Oooo, Kier Starmer was a remainer", and the only people who will care will be those Tories. The next election will be fought on perceptions of competence. Not sure your hero will look that good on that measure, and I think even you are realising that.
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
One of the reasons for the government to not extend the transition is so that being out of the single market has as much time as possible to become the new normal before the next general election.
I find it very unlikely that the electorate will be clamouring for yet more trade-related disruption by voting to rejoin the single market once left.
Assuming WTO terms with the EU is going great by the next general election, I agree
What WTO terms - the WTO is dead - and without it there are no terms. the EU can impose any conditions it wants and we will just have to accept them to export there.
WTO is so misunderstood in the UK. We will follow its rules and expect others to. When they dont we will be amazed that the WTO have no ability to enforce them. And to make it worse, when we are borderline with the rules, our own courts will enforce them against us. It will not end well!
On Nissan in Sunderland. Nissan indicated yesterday they would prefer to keep the Sunderland factory going. [More precisely, I think, they would prefer to keep a manufacturing presence in Europe, where Sunderland is their only option to do so]. They do have other options however: manufacturing on Renault lines where Renault is taking the lead position in Europe for the Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi Alliance; importing direct from Japan under the Japan/EU FTA, and a probably Japan/UK FTA.
I would interpret that to mean that Sunderland will probably continue at a lower production rate, provided there is a no-tariff Trade Deal with the EU. If it goes no Deal in December that's the end of Sunderland. They won't be prepared to pay 10% tariffs for export to the EU and Sunderland isn't important enough in the new Nissan world to keep going under other auspices.
As Brexit keeps being mentioned its instructive to look beyond the culture war that some rampers insist it is about as to why normal punters up here on Teesside and elsewhere voted for it. And why non-voting people voted for the first and last time for it.
Brexit is the silver bullet magic wand, the one size fits all solution to all your problems. Don't like the darkies? Brexit. Think things were better at some unspecified point in the past? Brexit. Want more people like you to live near you? Brexit. Can't get a job? Brexit. 30 years of things getting harder and you want better times for your kids? Brexit. Its about culture and about opportunity, and of those two things give people cash and nice holidays and a new iPhone and suddenly Romanians washing that nice new car you have on finance is less of a problem.
We left the EU at the end of January. Get Brexit Done remember? It is done. And most normals have moved on - they now want those better times they were promised. The Pandemic has made things a lot lot worse but thats different. However, as we head through the winter and no deal makes for fun times, people aren't going to say "good, I'm glad that we are queueing outside the supermarkets for half an hour in the freezing rain and there's fuck all to buy, stick that you remoaners". When 3m+ lose their jobs off the end of furlough and there's no jobs to be had they won't be cheering on Boris. It'll be what we're already starting to see in the Tory press - "this isn't the Brexit I voted for".
Would really help some of our most foamy Tories to consider just for a moment that what they think isn't automatically what new Brexit leaning first time Tory voters think. Lose their support and you lose all hope of winning a majority. They aren't ideologically wedded to the same things as you - they can't afford to be. They just want better times, and if you don't deliver they won't be happy...
Lose Leavers who want the transition period ended in December and never mind winning a majority, the Tories would be lucky to avoid coming 3rd behind Labour and the Brexit Party
Normals *don't care* about transition periods. They got Brexit done. What they want are all the benefits they were promised. You are still foaming at the mouth about Brexit betrayals, they aren't.
63% of Tory voters and 68% of Leave voters want the transition period ended in December, they are
Wouldn't it be more useful to ask people whether or not they accept the result of the referendum and think it's time to move on to other things?
Like whether we should extend the transition or try to replumb our relationship with the rest of Europe in the middle of dealing with a pandemic?
Why on earth would we extend transition? It would be insanity.
We need to replumb the economy now due to the pandemic. The relationship with Europe is incidental but why go through two sets of replumbing rather than get all the work done at once?
What part of dealing with the pandemic necessitates detaching ourselves from the single market?
The part where businesses rebuild for the future. They need to know what they're rebuilding for and if we are still in purgatory they don't.
An ipaper journalist reports the Home Office is about to up the ante on HK by mooting offering all 2.9m HK residents citizenship.
Not just the 330,000 BNOs passport holders.
Now that IS ballsy
Priti Patel is clearly the 'hawk' in the cabinet.
I am not convinced tweaking China's nose over Hong Kong, although admirable in many ways, does not have potential downsides too.
What are they going to do about it?
Offering the people of Hong Kong British citizenship is morally the right thing to do. Not a tweak to China.
Morally you're probably right. But for all China pretends others being interested in Hong Kong is outrageous when they know it's not given previous status and agreements, I'm far from convinced our government and others are prepared even for a war of words with them. But at least they're dipping their toes into the pool of confrontation, which is more than usual, even if they are not about to dive in.
@ Andy Cooke "People immediately start quoting the low death rates for these demographics that we've managed to achieve and using them to argue that the restrictions are actually unnecessary."
Reminds me of a time SeanT, formerly (and currently?) of this site, mocked the hurricane evacuations in the US once, because millions were evacuated for only a couple of deaths.
Are there numbers for the people under 60 hospitalised in England with covid thoughout this pandemic?
because if there are not, then these assertions about the danger of COVID to the under 60s and the NHS are simply opinion and not fact.
@ Andy Cooke "People immediately start quoting the low death rates for these demographics that we've managed to achieve and using them to argue that the restrictions are actually unnecessary."
Reminds me of a time SeanT, formerly (and currently?) of this site, mocked the hurricane evacuations in the US once, because millions were evacuated for only a couple of deaths.
Are there numbers for the people under 60 hospitalised in England with covid thoughout this pandemic?
because if there are not, then these assertions about the danger of COVID to the under 60s and the NHS are simply opinion and not fact.
Isn't such data released by the NHS on a daily basis?
As Brexit keeps being mentioned its instructive to look beyond the culture war that some rampers insist it is about as to why normal punters up here on Teesside and elsewhere voted for it. And why non-voting people voted for the first and last time for it.
Brexit is the silver bullet magic wand, the one size fits all solution to all your problems. Don't like the darkies? Brexit. Think things were better at some unspecified point in the past? Brexit. Want more people like you to live near you? Brexit. Can't get a job? Brexit. 30 years of things getting harder and you want better times for your kids? Brexit. Its about culture and about opportunity, and of those two things give people cash and nice holidays and a new iPhone and suddenly Romanians washing that nice new car you have on finance is less of a problem.
We left the EU at the end of January. Get Brexit Done remember? It is done. And most normals have moved on - they now want those better times they were promised. The Pandemic has made things a lot lot worse but thats different. However, as we head through the winter and no deal makes for fun times, people aren't going to say "good, I'm glad that we are queueing outside the supermarkets for half an hour in the freezing rain and there's fuck all to buy, stick that you remoaners". When 3m+ lose their jobs off the end of furlough and there's no jobs to be had they won't be cheering on Boris. It'll be what we're already starting to see in the Tory press - "this isn't the Brexit I voted for".
Would really help some of our most foamy Tories to consider just for a moment that what they think isn't automatically what new Brexit leaning first time Tory voters think. Lose their support and you lose all hope of winning a majority. They aren't ideologically wedded to the same things as you - they can't afford to be. They just want better times, and if you don't deliver they won't be happy...
Lose Leavers who want the transition period ended in December and never mind winning a majority, the Tories would be lucky to avoid coming 3rd behind Labour and the Brexit Party
Normals *don't care* about transition periods. They got Brexit done. What they want are all the benefits they were promised. You are still foaming at the mouth about Brexit betrayals, they aren't.
63% of Tory voters and 68% of Leave voters want the transition period ended in December, they are
On Nissan in Sunderland. Nissan indicated yesterday they would prefer to keep the Sunderland factory going. [More precisely, I think, they would prefer to keep a manufacturing presence in Europe, where Sunderland is their only option to do so]. They do have other options however: manufacturing on Renault lines where Renault is taking the lead position in Europe for the Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi Alliance; importing direct from Japan under the Japan/EU FTA, and a probably Japan/UK FTA.
I would interpret that to mean that Sunderland will probably continue at a lower production rate, provided there is a no-tariff Trade Deal with the EU. If it goes no Deal in December that's the end of Sunderland. They won't be prepared to pay 10% tariffs for export to the EU and Sunderland isn't important enough in the new Nissan world to keep going under other auspices.
They would if otherwise they would have no factory left in Europe providing Nissan cars for the UK and EU.
Nissan having closed their Spanish factory this week, Sunderland is their only European Nissan factory left and very productive, including of electric cars etc
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
One of the reasons for the government to not extend the transition is so that being out of the single market has as much time as possible to become the new normal before the next general election.
I find it very unlikely that the electorate will be clamouring for yet more trade-related disruption by voting to rejoin the single market once left.
Assuming WTO terms with the EU is going great by the next general election, I agree
What WTO terms - the WTO is dead - and without it there are no terms. the EU can impose any conditions it wants and we will just have to accept them to export there.
What people don't realise is that Level Playing Field protects the weaker party - ie us. Same with ECJ oversight. ECJ is there to enforce EU law without favour. If the ECJ doesn't enforce UK complaints in an objective manner, it will go to EU committees to decide instead. They won't consider the UK interest.
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
One of the reasons for the government to not extend the transition is so that being out of the single market has as much time as possible to become the new normal before the next general election.
I find it very unlikely that the electorate will be clamouring for yet more trade-related disruption by voting to rejoin the single market once left.
Assuming WTO terms with the EU is going great by the next general election, I agree
What WTO terms - the WTO is dead - and without it there are no terms. the EU can impose any conditions it wants and we will just have to accept them to export there.
If the EU and UK remain in the WTO as they will then no it is not dead for UK and EU trade
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
I think you of all people (having voted remain) realise that many many people at the last election did not vote on the single issue of Brexit. Most who voted Tory did so to keep the Terrorist Sympathising Anti-Semite out of No 10. Even if Brexit was a major issue at the last GE it wont be at the next, except in the mind of Brexit obsessed Tories, who will go "Oooo, Kier Starmer was a remainer", and the only people who will care will be those Tories. The next election will be fought on perceptions of competence. Not sure your hero will look that good on that measure, and I think even you are realising that.
It was, hence Corbyn got a hung parliament in 2017 promising to respect the Brexit result but Boris trounced him in 2019 when he did not.
The issue of WTO terms Brexit or rejoin the single market will still be relevant next time
As Brexit keeps being mentioned its instructive to look beyond the culture war that some rampers insist it is about as to why normal punters up here on Teesside and elsewhere voted for it. And why non-voting people voted for the first and last time for it.
Brexit is the silver bullet magic wand, the one size fits all solution to all your problems. Don't like the darkies? Brexit. Think things were better at some unspecified point in the past? Brexit. Want more people like you to live near you? Brexit. Can't get a job? Brexit. 30 years of things getting harder and you want better times for your kids? Brexit. Its about culture and about opportunity, and of those two things give people cash and nice holidays and a new iPhone and suddenly Romanians washing that nice new car you have on finance is less of a problem.
We left the EU at the end of January. Get Brexit Done remember? It is done. And most normals have moved on - they now want those better times they were promised. The Pandemic has made things a lot lot worse but thats different. However, as we head through the winter and no deal makes for fun times, people aren't going to say "good, I'm glad that we are queueing outside the supermarkets for half an hour in the freezing rain and there's fuck all to buy, stick that you remoaners". When 3m+ lose their jobs off the end of furlough and there's no jobs to be had they won't be cheering on Boris. It'll be what we're already starting to see in the Tory press - "this isn't the Brexit I voted for".
Would really help some of our most foamy Tories to consider just for a moment that what they think isn't automatically what new Brexit leaning first time Tory voters think. Lose their support and you lose all hope of winning a majority. They aren't ideologically wedded to the same things as you - they can't afford to be. They just want better times, and if you don't deliver they won't be happy...
Lose Leavers who want the transition period ended in December and never mind winning a majority, the Tories would be lucky to avoid coming 3rd behind Labour and the Brexit Party
Normals *don't care* about transition periods. They got Brexit done. What they want are all the benefits they were promised. You are still foaming at the mouth about Brexit betrayals, they aren't.
63% of Tory voters and 68% of Leave voters want the transition period ended in December, they are
On Nissan in Sunderland. Nissan indicated yesterday they would prefer to keep the Sunderland factory going. [More precisely, I think, they would prefer to keep a manufacturing presence in Europe, where Sunderland is their only option to do so]. They do have other options however: manufacturing on Renault lines where Renault is taking the lead position in Europe for the Renault/Nissan/Mitsubishi Alliance; importing direct from Japan under the Japan/EU FTA, and a probably Japan/UK FTA.
I would interpret that to mean that Sunderland will probably continue at a lower production rate, provided there is a no-tariff Trade Deal with the EU. If it goes no Deal in December that's the end of Sunderland. They won't be prepared to pay 10% tariffs for export to the EU and Sunderland isn't important enough in the new Nissan world to keep going under other auspices.
They would if otherwise they would have no factory left in Europe providing Nissan cars for the UK and EU.
Nissan having closed their Spanish factory this week, Sunderland is their only European Nissan factory left and very productive, including of electric cars etc
The key markets for Nissan are Japan, China and North America. Europe is seen as a secondary reference market, and useful for understanding trends. I think Nissan want to keep Sunderland, but it has to be profitable.
Point for Brexiteers. You need to have Deal with EU/Fishery Agreement/LPF etc in place by December if you want to keep the UK flying at Nissan.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
Phew, thank goodness for that. The North East will be mightily relieved to hear
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
Indeed. And as these Tory seats are a long long way from Sunderland and there is absolutely no links between them and Sunderland from an employment or cultural or regional identity basis, saying that the Nissan factory is less relevant will absolutely endear you to the voters.
You haven't a bloody clue mate. I would say get out of Essicksinnit more but actually you are well suited to the place.
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
I think you of all people (having voted remain) realise that many many people at the last election did not vote on the single issue of Brexit. Most who voted Tory did so to keep the Terrorist Sympathising Anti-Semite out of No 10. Even if Brexit was a major issue at the last GE it wont be at the next, except in the mind of Brexit obsessed Tories, who will go "Oooo, Kier Starmer was a remainer", and the only people who will care will be those Tories. The next election will be fought on perceptions of competence. Not sure your hero will look that good on that measure, and I think even you are realising that.
It was, hence Corbyn got a hung parliament in 2017 promising to respect the Brexit result but Boris trounced him in 2019 when he did not.
The issue of WTO terms Brexit or rejoin the single market will still be relevant next time
You have a much clearer idea of what Corbyn was promising to do in 2017 than I did at the time.
Wouldn't it be more useful to ask people whether or not they accept the result of the referendum and think it's time to move on to other things?
Like whether we should extend the transition or try to replumb our relationship with the rest of Europe in the middle of dealing with a pandemic?
Why on earth would we extend transition? It would be insanity.
We need to replumb the economy now due to the pandemic. The relationship with Europe is incidental but why go through two sets of replumbing rather than get all the work done at once?
Let us turn from the "replumbing" notion to something a little more gritty and realistic. When the economy has a hit to take it is preferable if it is not already on its knees. Thus goes the rationale for extending the transition.
@ Andy Cooke "People immediately start quoting the low death rates for these demographics that we've managed to achieve and using them to argue that the restrictions are actually unnecessary."
Reminds me of a time SeanT, formerly (and currently?) of this site, mocked the hurricane evacuations in the US once, because millions were evacuated for only a couple of deaths.
Are there numbers for the people under 60 hospitalised in England with covid thoughout this pandemic?
because if there are not, then these assertions about the danger of COVID to the under 60s and the NHS are simply opinion and not fact.
Haven't you got that information? You've been claiming that the risk is negligible for a while; surely this is based on something?
Anyway, it doesn't seem to be readily shown by the NHS.
The US have displayed the difference in age structure between hospital admissions, ICU admissions, and deaths here:
Of course, this could be different in the UK, but we'd need a plausible reason to believe that. There has been a detailed analysis in the UK for ICU admissions only (which, as per the above, we'd expect to be somewhere between the hospitalisation rates (least skew towards the elderly) and death rates (most skew towards the elderly) and that's here:
Glancing at it shows the bars, while shorter as you go down, aren't exactly negligible for the younger ones to go into intensive care - at least, not until you get down to the teens and below (which marches very well with the US data). It also indicates that while your chances of needing intensive care if younger (30s, 40s, 50s) aren't hugely below those when older, your prognosis when helped is far better.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
Indeed. And as these Tory seats are a long long way from Sunderland and there is absolutely no links between them and Sunderland from an employment or cultural or regional identity basis, saying that the Nissan factory is less relevant will absolutely endear you to the voters.
You haven't a bloody clue mate. I would say get out of Essicksinnit more but actually you are well suited to the place.
Blyth Valley is Newcastle commuter belt, Sedgefield is county Durham and largely rural and small market town and Bishop Auckland is also county Durham and its largest manufacturer is Ebac not Nissan
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
Interesting, but way over my head, let alone theirs!
How many Prime Ministers did we have in the First and Second World Wars combined?
Wouldn't it be more useful to ask people whether or not they accept the result of the referendum and think it's time to move on to other things?
Like whether we should extend the transition or try to replumb our relationship with the rest of Europe in the middle of dealing with a pandemic?
Why on earth would we extend transition? It would be insanity.
We need to replumb the economy now due to the pandemic. The relationship with Europe is incidental but why go through two sets of replumbing rather than get all the work done at once?
Let us turn from the "replumbing" notion to something a little more gritty and realistic. When the economy has a hit to take it is preferable if it is not already on its knees. Thus goes the rationale for extending the transition.
No when there is a hit to take better that hit goes all at once than to have the hit then keep on hitting it.
Companies are needing to plan for the future post virus. Why on earth leave Brexit like the Sword of Damocles hanging over them? Just get it all over with already.
Businesses need some form of certainty for planning. Transition doesn't give that.
I hope nobody here thinks @HYUFD represents the Tory Party or its attitudes to the North. 🤦♂️
I have always thought HYUFD is representative of the Tory Party and its attitudes. You may or may not agree with those attitudes,but he has a good track record of making the calls (eg Johnson for Party Leader/PM)
I hope nobody here thinks @HYUFD represents the Tory Party or its attitudes to the North. 🤦♂️
I have always thought HYUFD is representative of the Tory Party and its attitudes. You may or may not agree with those attitudes,but he has a good track record of making the calls (eg Johnson for Party Leader/PM)
I agree with HYUFD on almost nothing and I too called Johnson for Party Leader and PM so that doesn't really work.
I never fell for JRM for Party Leader and PM which HYUFD was touting though.
I hope nobody here thinks @HYUFD represents the Tory Party or its attitudes to the North. 🤦♂️
Hopefully the Sunderland factory will survive but if the only thing keeping it going is the UK being in the single market then that cannot set policy for the whole UK.
The Tories won a majority on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU and single market even if Sunderland did not vote Tory
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
Interesting, but way over my head, let alone theirs!
How many Prime Ministers did we have in the First and Second World Wars combined?
Which Prime Minister died servicing his maid over the billiard table?
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
I hope nobody here thinks @HYUFD represents the Tory Party or its attitudes to the North. 🤦♂️
Hopefully the Sunderland factory will survive but if the only thing keeping it going is the UK being in the single market then that cannot set policy for the whole UK.
The Tories won a majority on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU and single market even if Sunderland did not vote Tory
That first paragraph is a reasonable thing to say.
An attitude of "fuck Sunderland it voted Labour so who cares" is not.
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
Interesting, but way over my head, let alone theirs!
How many Prime Ministers did we have in the First and Second World Wars combined?
Which Prime Minister died servicing his maid over the billiard table?
Which continuous run of Prime Ministers fought in the First World War?
I hope nobody here thinks @HYUFD represents the Tory Party or its attitudes to the North. 🤦♂️
I have always thought HYUFD is representative of the Tory Party and its attitudes. You may or may not agree with those attitudes,but he has a good track record of making the calls (eg Johnson for Party Leader/PM)
I agree with HYUFD on almost nothing and I too called Johnson for Party Leader and PM so that doesn't really work.
I never fell for JRM for Party Leader and PM which HYUFD was touting though.
Well I called (and bet on) Miliband for Party leader at 2/1 in 2010, managed to bail out in time to break even on Corbyn in 2015 and backed Starmer four years ago at 16/1. But despite being a party member (or more strictly speaking a rejoiner) I can confidently say that I am anything but representative of the Labour Party membership.
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
Indeed. And as these Tory seats are a long long way from Sunderland and there is absolutely no links between them and Sunderland from an employment or cultural or regional identity basis, saying that the Nissan factory is less relevant will absolutely endear you to the voters.
You haven't a bloody clue mate. I would say get out of Essicksinnit more but actually you are well suited to the place.
Blyth Valley is Newcastle commuter belt, Sedgefield is county Durham and largely rural and small market town and Bishop Auckland is also county Durham and its largest manufacturer is Ebac not Nissan
I would dearly love you to come out on the stump up here at the next election. "What ho, I'm here to tell you that you needn't worry about the Nissan factory that you work at. Because in actuality Blyth Valley is Newcastle commuter belt, Sedgefield is county Durham and largely rural and small market town and Bishop Auckland is also county Durham"
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
Indeed. And as these Tory seats are a long long way from Sunderland and there is absolutely no links between them and Sunderland from an employment or cultural or regional identity basis, saying that the Nissan factory is less relevant will absolutely endear you to the voters.
You haven't a bloody clue mate. I would say get out of Essicksinnit more but actually you are well suited to the place.
Blyth Valley is Newcastle commuter belt, Sedgefield is county Durham and largely rural and small market town and Bishop Auckland is also county Durham and its largest manufacturer is Ebac not Nissan
I would dearly love you to come out on the stump up here at the next election. "What ho, I'm here to tell you that you needn't worry about the Nissan factory that you work at. Because in actuality Blyth Valley is Newcastle commuter belt, Sedgefield is county Durham and largely rural and small market town and Bishop Auckland is also county Durham"
I would certainly come on the stump in those areas to tell them that the price of keeping the Sunderland factory barely any of them work at will be keeping free movement and uncontrolled EU immigration and EU regulations, if staying in the single market was the only way to keep the Sunderland factory open.
I have to say it's amazing that the positive news of Nissan deciding to stay in the UK is being spun as a win for the EU on here. Some people are just too predictable.
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
Interesting, but way over my head, let alone theirs!
How many Prime Ministers did we have in the First and Second World Wars combined?
Which Prime Minister died servicing his maid over the billiard table?
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
Interesting, but way over my head, let alone theirs!
How many Prime Ministers did we have in the First and Second World Wars combined?
Which Prime Minister died servicing his maid over the billiard table?
Which continuous run of Prime Ministers fought in the First World War?
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
Indeed. And as these Tory seats are a long long way from Sunderland and there is absolutely no links between them and Sunderland from an employment or cultural or regional identity basis, saying that the Nissan factory is less relevant will absolutely endear you to the voters.
You haven't a bloody clue mate. I would say get out of Essicksinnit more but actually you are well suited to the place.
I expect HYUFD would apply the same calculations to Luton, Exeter or Cambridge if they were to suffer as they all have Labour MPs.
I hope nobody here thinks @HYUFD represents the Tory Party or its attitudes to the North. 🤦♂️
Hopefully the Sunderland factory will survive but if the only thing keeping it going is the UK being in the single market then that cannot set policy for the whole UK.
The Tories won a majority on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU and single market even if Sunderland did not vote Tory
What was it John Major said about the flapping of white coats?
Wouldn't it be more useful to ask people whether or not they accept the result of the referendum and think it's time to move on to other things?
Like whether we should extend the transition or try to replumb our relationship with the rest of Europe in the middle of dealing with a pandemic?
Why on earth would we extend transition? It would be insanity.
We need to replumb the economy now due to the pandemic. The relationship with Europe is incidental but why go through two sets of replumbing rather than get all the work done at once?
Let us turn from the "replumbing" notion to something a little more gritty and realistic. When the economy has a hit to take it is preferable if it is not already on its knees. Thus goes the rationale for extending the transition.
No when there is a hit to take better that hit goes all at once than to have the hit then keep on hitting it.
Companies are needing to plan for the future post virus. Why on earth leave Brexit like the Sword of Damocles hanging over them? Just get it all over with already.
Businesses need some form of certainty for planning. Transition doesn't give that.
Business opinion is against moving from frictionless trade to WTO on 1st January 2021.
I expect the median voter both accepts the referendum result and thinks the transition period should be extended.
In which case they would have voted Tory last time to deliver Brexit but would vote Labour or LD next time to take us back into the single market
I think you of all people (having voted remain) realise that many many people at the last election did not vote on the single issue of Brexit. Most who voted Tory did so to keep the Terrorist Sympathising Anti-Semite out of No 10. Even if Brexit was a major issue at the last GE it wont be at the next, except in the mind of Brexit obsessed Tories, who will go "Oooo, Kier Starmer was a remainer", and the only people who will care will be those Tories. The next election will be fought on perceptions of competence. Not sure your hero will look that good on that measure, and I think even you are realising that.
It was, hence Corbyn got a hung parliament in 2017 promising to respect the Brexit result but Boris trounced him in 2019 when he did not.
The issue of WTO terms Brexit or rejoin the single market will still be relevant next time
Corbyn got a hung parliament in 2017 by making the election about everything but Brexit (as a consequence of promising to respect the Brexit result). Starmer will likewise try and make the 2024 election about everything but Brexit.
The issue of our future relations with the EU will still be there in 2024 but after 14 years of your lot it's going to be very much a secondary issue for all but zealots.
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
Interesting, but way over my head, let alone theirs!
How many Prime Ministers did we have in the First and Second World Wars combined?
Which Prime Minister died servicing his maid over the billiard table?
Nissan and Renault and Mitsubishi are all one alliance now.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
Which is why Sunderland is not looking good
It is merely one of a whole multitude of reasons why Sunderland doesn't look good.
Both Sunderland seats are still Labour anyway
Thank God, I guess we don't have to care what happens there then.
Well if you are a Tory strategist for the next general election no, Blyth Valley and Bishop Auckland and Sedgefield are more relevant as they all have Tory MPs
It's just possible we were wondering what might be the good and right thing to do, rather than concerned about what keeps the Tory party in power for ever and ever amen.
I hope nobody here thinks @HYUFD represents the Tory Party or its attitudes to the North. 🤦♂️
I have always thought HYUFD is representative of the Tory Party and its attitudes. You may or may not agree with those attitudes,but he has a good track record of making the calls (eg Johnson for Party Leader/PM)
I agree with HYUFD on almost nothing and I too called Johnson for Party Leader and PM so that doesn't really work.
I never fell for JRM for Party Leader and PM which HYUFD was touting though.
It's a broad church of ignorance, corruption, class warfare and alt-right batshittery.
I have been tasked with doing a politics round for a work quiz tomorrow evening.
Any tidbits of politics trivia (the more scurrilous and low brow the better - people already think I'm going to be sending them to sleep), I would be very grateful if you could throw them my way. Thanks!
Do it on the weirdest political scandals.
What animal was associated with DC and the Oxford dining club dinner? What did half a dozen MPs and former MPs end up in jail for in 2012-13? Who shopped Chris Huhne for lying to the court about his speeding ticket? How much did Bernie Ecclestone give to Tony Blair? Who was the MP found dead with an orange in his mouth and wearing women’s stockings? Who said “No woman in my lifetime will be prime minister”?
These are perfect! I'll make some easier (got to know your audience) but fantastic question topics.
Which was the only year since 1918 without a Westminster election or Westminster by-election?
Interesting, but way over my head, let alone theirs!
Wasn't the actual quote: "It will be years, and not in my time, before a woman will lead the Party or become Prime Minister?"
Comments
There are still scores to be settled.
https://twitter.com/llelewtan/status/1266365183112278018
Reminds me of a time SeanT, formerly (and currently?) of this site, mocked the hurricane evacuations in the US once, because millions were evacuated for only a couple of deaths.
If the Chinese Communist party are going to go all -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsW9MlYu31g
..they should remember what happened next...
I literally can't understand that attitude.
Nissan will focus on the US, China and Japan going forward, Renault on Europe and Russia and Mitsubishi on South East Asia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52845849
That would be a development I didn't see coming ...
I find it very unlikely that the electorate will be clamouring for yet more trade-related disruption by voting to rejoin the single market once left.
Think about it. What an opportunity to restructure the economy. Offer the mass of pandemic unemployed a new job with no security or rights and they'll lap it up and thank you for it. Trebles all round!
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1261323480903147521?s=19
But hey I only here stuff directly not 2nd hand with crap commentary afterwards.
What is the third largest political party in the UK? with the bonus question: Which politician failed to answer this question correctly on QI despite being a member of that party?
We're going to be Billy No Mates for a while on that front I think.
I would interpret that to mean that Sunderland will probably continue at a lower production rate, provided there is a no-tariff Trade Deal with the EU. If it goes no Deal in December that's the end of Sunderland. They won't be prepared to pay 10% tariffs for export to the EU and Sunderland isn't important enough in the new Nissan world to keep going under other auspices.
because if there are not, then these assertions about the danger of COVID to the under 60s and the NHS are simply opinion and not fact.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52844350?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5ed11402a6a6aa067fd2141c&Sage member questions easing of lockdown in England&2020-05-29T14:00:34.843Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:72a5826b-5f7d-4b05-8275-ed8c9c52c708&pinned_post_asset_id=5ed11402a6a6aa067fd2141c&pinned_post_type=share
How many Prime Ministers has the UK had in this same time period?
A: 8 and 15
Nissan having closed their Spanish factory this week, Sunderland is their only European Nissan factory left and very productive, including of electric cars etc
The issue of WTO terms Brexit or rejoin the single market will still be relevant next time
Point for Brexiteers. You need to have Deal with EU/Fishery Agreement/LPF etc in place by December if you want to keep the UK flying at Nissan.
You haven't a bloody clue mate. I would say get out of Essicksinnit more but actually you are well suited to the place.
Anyway, it doesn't seem to be readily shown by the NHS.
The US have displayed the difference in age structure between hospital admissions, ICU admissions, and deaths here:
(source here: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w#F1_down )
Of course, this could be different in the UK, but we'd need a plausible reason to believe that.
There has been a detailed analysis in the UK for ICU admissions only (which, as per the above, we'd expect to be somewhere between the hospitalisation rates (least skew towards the elderly) and death rates (most skew towards the elderly) and that's here:
(Source here: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf )
Glancing at it shows the bars, while shorter as you go down, aren't exactly negligible for the younger ones to go into intensive care - at least, not until you get down to the teens and below (which marches very well with the US data). It also indicates that while your chances of needing intensive care if younger (30s, 40s, 50s) aren't hugely below those when older, your prognosis when helped is far better.
There were numbers quoted from experience in China at the start of all this here: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196573/covid-19-one-five-over-80s-need-hospitalisation/ which seem pretty compatible as well.
Companies are needing to plan for the future post virus. Why on earth leave Brexit like the Sword of Damocles hanging over them? Just get it all over with already.
Businesses need some form of certainty for planning. Transition doesn't give that.
I never fell for JRM for Party Leader and PM which HYUFD was touting though.
The Tories won a majority on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU and single market even if Sunderland did not vote Tory
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/in-one-article-boris-manages-to-offend-an-entire-city-shy-and-his-boss-543923.html
An attitude of "fuck Sunderland it voted Labour so who cares" is not.
Though I still think that will not be the case
The issue of our future relations with the EU will still be there in 2024 but after 14 years of your lot it's going to be very much a secondary issue for all but zealots.