"No, no I never said Jo Swinson, your next Prime Minister, I said Jo Swinson, your next First Minister, honest...."
What's the point in standing in an election nationally if you are not trying to win the whole thing? I remember criticism of Clegg in 2010 that he didn't do as well as he could have because he concentrated too much on possible coalitions.
So he was at the Times. Now at the New Statesman.. tells you all you need to.know.
I genuinely don't know how to take this.
How is it that moving between those two particular organs tells me all I need to know about a journalist?
Is it anything like moving from the Times to the Telegraph?
That is an accurate comparison.
Moving from anything to The Times is the sensible thing to do.
Incidentally if you live in a rural area and cannot get your paper delivered,...contact
Newsteamgroup.co.uk.. tel 01782 959530 and they will tell you if they can deliver to you. I am three miles from.the shop nearest me so delivery by them is not an option
These guys deliver to your door for £2.70 six days a week and £2.80 for 7 days. It might be a different cost the more isolated you are, but its worth a call....
In my case the only delivery option is a company so incompetent locally that they paid me £100 as an apology for their inability to generate accurate bills and then asking my neighbours son (the paperboy) to delivery a letter not in an envelope demanding payment.
I now walk round to the local cornershop but if your locally delivery option is McColls don't accept the offer unless they've updated their billing software to handle vouchers.
Quality of life, not quantity. Hug your grandchildern FFS.
It is very painful to my wife and I that we cannot hug our grandchildren
Hug the critters then. Just make sure the curtain switching stasi isn`t watching.
I dont think its the lockdown rules that concern them, more like the impact of catching COVID at their time of life.
That`s an interesting point. Standing over two metres from my neighbours during my walk yesterday caused me to reflect on this. We`ve been in lockdown for so long that the chance of catching the virus off the other is vanishingly small. So why are we doing it? - it`s as though there`s some invisible force field between us. I don`t think it`s health anymore, I think it`s obedience to authority. Following the letter rather than the spirit. Which worries me greatly.
In our case it is our judgment that we need to stay in lockdown for as long as necessary to give us the best chance of achieving our diamond wedding in 4 years
More to the point, you chance of achieving your diamond wedding in 4 years also depends on millions of people like Stocky continuing to observe social distancing.
I do not think that is likely but social distancing is here for quite a while
What don't you think is likely? The whole point of social distancing is to slow the spread of the virus. If enough people stop social distancing, then the spread will rise again, and your chances of catching the virus will increase accordingly.
A time will come to make a judgment call but I do not see it this year
The problem on social distancing will come if football and rugby are permitted to start as they are contact sports and many will complain it is in breach of this rule
As footballers are generally under 40 there is very little chance of any of them being fatalities.
I think you miss the point.
Football is the very antithesis of social distancing
But if the big match on the tv nudges thousands to stay in rather than go out - it would be a net win.
Sadly thousands would gather at mates homes blowing a hole in social distancing
I disagree. I can't see any evidence for that at all given how solid the lockdown has been.
Well there's been no temptation to do it since all the games have been cancelled.
Loads of my friends have already said that they would all pile to peoples houses to watch it and get drunk.
Everyone has obeyed the rules to the letter so far.
Those imagining that football on TV would not lead to huge break down of social distancing are naïve in the extreme.
"No, no I never said Jo Swinson, your next Prime Minister, I said Jo Swinson, your next First Minister, honest...."
What's the point in standing in an election nationally if you are not trying to win the whole thing? I remember criticism of Clegg in 2010 that he didn't do as well as he could have because he concentrated too much on possible coalitions.
I agree. I thought that was a cheap shot by the overrated Andrew Neil, because he must have known there is a perfectly good answer to it which she was too flustered to manage - which is, as you say, "Look, we are a national party seriously contesting every seat in this election, and I am therefore obliged to give that answer even if we both know not to bet too much money on it."
Quality of life, not quantity. Hug your grandchildern FFS.
It is very painful to my wife and I that we cannot hug our grandchildren
Hug the critters then. Just make sure the curtain switching stasi isn`t watching.
I dont think its the lockdown rules that concern them, more like the impact of catching COVID at their time of life.
That`s an interesting point. Standing over two metres from my neighbours during my walk yesterday caused me to reflect on this. We`ve been in lockdown for so long that the chance of catching the virus off the other is vanishingly small. So why are we doing it? - it`s as though there`s some invisible force field between us. I don`t think it`s health anymore, I think it`s obedience to authority. Following the letter rather than the spirit. Which worries me greatly.
In our case it is our judgment that we need to stay in lockdown for as long as necessary to give us the best chance of achieving our diamond wedding in 4 years
More to the point, you chance of achieving your diamond wedding in 4 years also depends on millions of people like Stocky continuing to observe social distancing.
I do not think that is likely but social distancing is here for quite a while
What don't you think is likely? The whole point of social distancing is to slow the spread of the virus. If enough people stop social distancing, then the spread will rise again, and your chances of catching the virus will increase accordingly.
A time will come to make a judgment call but I do not see it this year
The problem on social distancing will come if football and rugby are permitted to start as they are contact sports and many will complain it is in breach of this rule
As footballers are generally under 40 there is very little chance of any of them being fatalities.
I think you miss the point.
Football is the very antithesis of social distancing
But if the big match on the tv nudges thousands to stay in rather than go out - it would be a net win.
Sadly thousands would gather at mates homes blowing a hole in social distancing
I disagree. I can't see any evidence for that at all given how solid the lockdown has been.
Well there's been no temptation to do it since all the games have been cancelled.
There's been plenty of temptation to socialise for other reasons, barbeques in the weather we've been having, I see no evidence that football fans are more likely to breach the lockdown for that reason.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
I find that an interesting comment. That is about 220 sqm give or take, which is probably more back garden than you get on a large 4/5 bed estate house these days in most places.
Quality of life, not quantity. Hug your grandchildern FFS.
It is very painful to my wife and I that we cannot hug our grandchildren
Hug the critters then. Just make sure the curtain switching stasi isn`t watching.
I dont think its the lockdown rules that concern them, more like the impact of catching COVID at their time of life.
That`s an interesting point. Standing over two metres from my neighbours during my walk yesterday caused me to reflect on this. We`ve been in lockdown for so long that the chance of catching the virus off the other is vanishingly small. So why are we doing it? - it`s as though there`s some invisible force field between us. I don`t think it`s health anymore, I think it`s obedience to authority. Following the letter rather than the spirit. Which worries me greatly.
In our case it is our judgment that we need to stay in lockdown for as long as necessary to give us the best chance of achieving our diamond wedding in 4 years
More to the point, you chance of achieving your diamond wedding in 4 years also depends on millions of people like Stocky continuing to observe social distancing.
I do not think that is likely but social distancing is here for quite a while
What don't you think is likely? The whole point of social distancing is to slow the spread of the virus. If enough people stop social distancing, then the spread will rise again, and your chances of catching the virus will increase accordingly.
A time will come to make a judgment call but I do not see it this year
The problem on social distancing will come if football and rugby are permitted to start as they are contact sports and many will complain it is in breach of this rule
As footballers are generally under 40 there is very little chance of any of them being fatalities.
I think you miss the point.
Football is the very antithesis of social distancing
But if the big match on the tv nudges thousands to stay in rather than go out - it would be a net win.
Sadly thousands would gather at mates homes blowing a hole in social distancing
I disagree. I can't see any evidence for that at all given how solid the lockdown has been.
Well there's been no temptation to do it since all the games have been cancelled.
There's been plenty of temptation to socialise for other reasons, barbeques in the weather we've been having, I see no evidence that football fans are more likely to breach the lockdown for that reason.
You really don't think that if there is a match that the scousers could win the league for the first time in 30years that they are not all going to get together for parties in each others houses ?
Quality of life, not quantity. Hug your grandchildern FFS.
It is very painful to my wife and I that we cannot hug our grandchildren
Hug the critters then. Just make sure the curtain switching stasi isn`t watching.
I dont think its the lockdown rules that concern them, more like the impact of catching COVID at their time of life.
That`s an interesting point. Standing over two metres from my neighbours during my walk yesterday caused me to reflect on this. We`ve been in lockdown for so long that the chance of catching the virus off the other is vanishingly small. So why are we doing it? - it`s as though there`s some invisible force field between us. I don`t think it`s health anymore, I think it`s obedience to authority. Following the letter rather than the spirit. Which worries me greatly.
In our case it is our judgment that we need to stay in lockdown for as long as necessary to give us the best chance of achieving our diamond wedding in 4 years
More to the point, you chance of achieving your diamond wedding in 4 years also depends on millions of people like Stocky continuing to observe social distancing.
I do not think that is likely but social distancing is here for quite a while
What don't you think is likely? The whole point of social distancing is to slow the spread of the virus. If enough people stop social distancing, then the spread will rise again, and your chances of catching the virus will increase accordingly.
A time will come to make a judgment call but I do not see it this year
The problem on social distancing will come if football and rugby are permitted to start as they are contact sports and many will complain it is in breach of this rule
As footballers are generally under 40 there is very little chance of any of them being fatalities.
I think you miss the point.
Football is the very antithesis of social distancing
But if the big match on the tv nudges thousands to stay in rather than go out - it would be a net win.
Sadly thousands would gather at mates homes blowing a hole in social distancing
I disagree. I can't see any evidence for that at all given how solid the lockdown has been.
Well there's been no temptation to do it since all the games have been cancelled.
Loads of my friends have already said that they would all pile to peoples houses to watch it and get drunk.
Everyone has obeyed the rules to the letter so far.
Those imagining that football on TV would not lead to huge break down of social distancing are naïve in the extreme.
I don't agree. I'd be more than happy to stay at home watching it and most others I know are the same. Friends who would normally all be at the pub would happily socially distance and watch it on the TV under the circumstances.
You really don't think that if there is a match that the scousers could win the league for the first time in 30years that they are not all going to get together for parties in each others houses ?
I tend to give people more credit than you do. Particularly, it would appear, people from Liverpool.
Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.
I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?
My tips:- 1. Get some copper bands - available online from lots of places eg Harrod Horticultural - and put them around the base of the hosts so that they form a protective collar with no space underneath for the snails to creep in. Slugs don't like the shock they get from the copper. 2. Egg shells or grit inside the copper band or generally around the hosts helps because slugs don't like climbing over them. 3. Slug pellets work. You only need a few and you can mix them into the grit. 4. Nematodes: also available from Harrod Horticultural. A powder which mixes with water and gets poured over your garden. The nematodes eat the slugs before they have a chance to grow. You need to do a course with the company sending you the powder every few weeks so you get continuous coverage. 5. There is a spray which you can spray on your hosts- top and bottom of the leaves - which helps make them unpalatable to slugs. Cannot remember the name bit will try to look it up. 6. Going round every evening, picking the bloody things and drowning them. 7. Getting a hedgehog.
Quality of life, not quantity. Hug your grandchildern FFS.
It is very painful to my wife and I that we cannot hug our grandchildren
Hug the critters then. Just make sure the curtain switching stasi isn`t watching.
I dont think its the lockdown rules that concern them, more like the impact of catching COVID at their time of life.
That`s an interesting point. Standing over two metres from my neighbours during my walk yesterday caused me to reflect on this. We`ve been in lockdown for so long that the chance of catching the virus off the other is vanishingly small. So why are we doing it? - it`s as though there`s some invisible force field between us. I don`t think it`s health anymore, I think it`s obedience to authority. Following the letter rather than the spirit. Which worries me greatly.
In our case it is our judgment that we need to stay in lockdown for as long as necessary to give us the best chance of achieving our diamond wedding in 4 years
More to the point, you chance of achieving your diamond wedding in 4 years also depends on millions of people like Stocky continuing to observe social distancing.
I do not think that is likely but social distancing is here for quite a while
What don't you think is likely? The whole point of social distancing is to slow the spread of the virus. If enough people stop social distancing, then the spread will rise again, and your chances of catching the virus will increase accordingly.
A time will come to make a judgment call but I do not see it this year
The problem on social distancing will come if football and rugby are permitted to start as they are contact sports and many will complain it is in breach of this rule
As footballers are generally under 40 there is very little chance of any of them being fatalities.
I think you miss the point.
Football is the very antithesis of social distancing
But if the big match on the tv nudges thousands to stay in rather than go out - it would be a net win.
Sadly thousands would gather at mates homes blowing a hole in social distancing
I disagree. I can't see any evidence for that at all given how solid the lockdown has been.
Well there's been no temptation to do it since all the games have been cancelled.
There's been plenty of temptation to socialise for other reasons, barbeques in the weather we've been having, I see no evidence that football fans are more likely to breach the lockdown for that reason.
You really don't think that if there is a match that the scousers could win the league for the first time in 30years that they are not all going to get together for parties in each others houses ?
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Contact tracing is definitely a Buy, not Make. Now's not the time for a ten year delay followed by a rollout fiasco. Whatever else you might think of Google their stuff usually works and they can do scale.
The app is opt in. It allows you to go out and about. If you don't want to play ball, you stay at home.
Perhaps someone should tell the journalists at the briefing.
Someone should tell Contrarion.
Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment.
Not that either side is evil but people should not be dissuaded from stating a view nor asking a question based on an opinion poll. They’re important points whatever YouGov comes up with.
Oh I agree absolutely. But I am still allowed to take the micky a bit surely. One of the joys of letting people have their say is being able to point out their errors.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
I couldn't care less about halal meat, its the lowest common denominator - and kosher meat by another name. If Jews and Muslims will only eat kosher/halal, while everyone eats anything whether kosher/halal or not, then it makes sense to go with kosher/halal for covering all bases. I have Jewish friends who like the fact that halal has become more common as they know that if food is halal then it is kosher.
People make noises day and night either way. Again normal noise pollution rules should apply. If at 5am its comparable to a van or train going past and can be blocked out with double-glazing then I don't care. If its loud enough it gets through double-glazing and wake people up then it should be illegal.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
I couldn't care less about halal meat, its the lowest common denominator - and kosher meat by another name. If Jews and Muslims will only eat kosher/halal, while everyone eats anything whether kosher/halal or not, then it makes sense to go with kosher/halal for covering all bases. I have Jewish friends who like the fact that halal has become more common as they know that if food is halal then it is kosher.
People make noises day and night either way. Again normal noise pollution rules should apply. If at 5am its comparable to a van or train going past and can be blocked out with double-glazing then I don't care. If its loud enough it gets through double-glazing and wake people up then it should be illegal.
42% of halal meat, in the UK, comes from non stun animals. They are just slowly, painfully left to bleed out
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
Do not succumb to anti Muslim prejudice. Fight it. All will be with you, win or lose.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
I couldn't care less about halal meat, its the lowest common denominator - and kosher meat by another name. If Jews and Muslims will only eat kosher/halal, while everyone eats anything whether kosher/halal or not, then it makes sense to go with kosher/halal for covering all bases. I have Jewish friends who like the fact that halal has become more common as they know that if food is halal then it is kosher.
People make noises day and night either way. Again normal noise pollution rules should apply. If at 5am its comparable to a van or train going past and can be blocked out with double-glazing then I don't care. If its loud enough it gets through double-glazing and wake people up then it should be illegal.
42% of halal meat, in the UK, comes from non stun animals. They are just slowly, painfully left to bleed out
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
I couldn't care less about halal meat, its the lowest common denominator - and kosher meat by another name. If Jews and Muslims will only eat kosher/halal, while everyone eats anything whether kosher/halal or not, then it makes sense to go with kosher/halal for covering all bases. I have Jewish friends who like the fact that halal has become more common as they know that if food is halal then it is kosher.
People make noises day and night either way. Again normal noise pollution rules should apply. If at 5am its comparable to a van or train going past and can be blocked out with double-glazing then I don't care. If its loud enough it gets through double-glazing and wake people up then it should be illegal.
42% of halal meat, in the UK, comes from non stun animals. They are just slowly, painfully left to bleed out
Male lions are also lazy as fuck, leaving the females to do all the hunting, and have sex up to a hundred times a day but only last about 10 seconds. A surprising number of them are into m on m gay sex, too.
- Halfon for the chop?
I don't suppose Boris does natural history.
btw never mind clapping on Thursday, there's a minute silence at 11 a.m. tomorrow and the poppy fascists will have you for breach of that. It hasn't expressly been declared a weekly event, but I bet it will be.
My wife’s parents were busy last Thursday evening. So they forgot to clap. They then had several hostile texts from neighbours, saying Where were you, Why weren’t you clapping
I fucking hate this. With the news that NHS workers are actually slightly LESS likely to die of COVID than the rest of us, I m done with clapping
This Thursday I might go out at 8pm and boo health workers. In a Syrian accent. While wearing a burqa and waving the confederate flag. Just to confuse everyone.
That is dreadful. I hate that sort of fascism.
Incidentally it struck me the other day that if you wanted to stage a takeover in this country you'd just rebrand everything as our NHS stormtroopers, our NHS Pretorian Guard, and so forth. Who would dare resist?
Isn't sticking 'Royal' onto these things the traditional way of doing things in this country?
The Royal Deployment Groups or Her Majesty's Secret State Police could probably be set up to popular acclaim.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
I couldn't care less about halal meat, its the lowest common denominator - and kosher meat by another name. If Jews and Muslims will only eat kosher/halal, while everyone eats anything whether kosher/halal or not, then it makes sense to go with kosher/halal for covering all bases. I have Jewish friends who like the fact that halal has become more common as they know that if food is halal then it is kosher.
People make noises day and night either way. Again normal noise pollution rules should apply. If at 5am its comparable to a van or train going past and can be blocked out with double-glazing then I don't care. If its loud enough it gets through double-glazing and wake people up then it should be illegal.
42% of halal meat, in the UK, comes from non stun animals. They are just slowly, painfully left to bleed out
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
I couldn't care less about halal meat, its the lowest common denominator - and kosher meat by another name. If Jews and Muslims will only eat kosher/halal, while everyone eats anything whether kosher/halal or not, then it makes sense to go with kosher/halal for covering all bases. I have Jewish friends who like the fact that halal has become more common as they know that if food is halal then it is kosher.
People make noises day and night either way. Again normal noise pollution rules should apply. If at 5am its comparable to a van or train going past and can be blocked out with double-glazing then I don't care. If its loud enough it gets through double-glazing and wake people up then it should be illegal.
42% of halal meat, in the UK, comes from non stun animals. They are just slowly, painfully left to bleed out
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
Do not succumb to anti Muslim prejudice. Fight it. All will be with you, win or lose.
You know, we had another poster on here once, ages ago, who was obsessed with Muslims, particularly after he’d had a few drinks.
Can’t remember who it was though. Name’s on the Tip of my Tongue.
But Eadric can’t be him because I remember he hated Cardiff.
I remember an old poster, ShornTea or something. In a near permanent state of hysteria, screaming about needing to know the religion of bin lorry drivers, demand Muslims be forced to convert or be deported etc.
He got so nervous about his posting history he got it all deleted.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
I remember an old poster, ShornTea or something. In a near permanent state of hysteria, screaming about needing to know the religion of bin lorry drivers, demand Muslims be forced to convert or be deported etc.
He got so nervous about his posting history he got it all deleted.
Interesting to think about.
No, now I remember. It wasn’t SeanT. It was Byronic.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
I think there was a new law passed recently precisely because of cases like this:
Although my personal favourite was the neighbour of a church who complained that the bells were too loud, and therefore had the ringers locked out of the ringing chamber.
The reason he could do that is because he was the Rector.
I remember an old poster, ShornTea or something. In a near permanent state of hysteria, screaming about needing to know the religion of bin lorry drivers, demand Muslims be forced to convert or be deported etc.
He got so nervous about his posting history he got it all deleted.
Interesting to think about.
He sounds fun. I am sadly much more sober
Although you appear to be enjoying a good whine at the moment...
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
Do not succumb to anti Muslim prejudice. Fight it. All will be with you, win or lose.
Personally, I find the call to prayer rather moving. The cry of the human soul, petitioning Heaven.
If you’re in a sultry Kurdish town at dusk, and you suddenly hear these lamentations rise Into the sky, like fragrant smoke, from a hundred slender minarets, it can be magical.
But in Britain, nope
Again do you only hear it if outside or would it wake you up through double-glazing? Would it break normal noise pollution rules?
If you hear it while out and its within otherwise existing rules then who cares? If it would be illegal for anyone else it should remain illegal and not have a religious exemption.
I remember an old poster, ShornTea or something. In a near permanent state of hysteria, screaming about needing to know the religion of bin lorry drivers, demand Muslims be forced to convert or be deported etc.
He got so nervous about his posting history he got it all deleted.
Interesting to think about.
He sounds fun. I am sadly much more sober
Although you appear to be enjoying a good whine at the moment...
Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.
I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?
My tips:- 1. Get some copper bands - available online from lots of places eg Harrod Horticultural - and put them around the base of the hosts so that they form a protective collar with no space underneath for the snails to creep in. Slugs don't like the shock they get from the copper. 2. Egg shells or grit inside the copper band or generally around the hosts helps because slugs don't like climbing over them. 3. Slug pellets work. You only need a few and you can mix them into the grit. 4. Nematodes: also available from Harrod Horticultural. A powder which mixes with water and gets poured over your garden. The nematodes eat the slugs before they have a chance to grow. You need to do a course with the company sending you the powder every few weeks so you get continuous coverage. 5. There is a spray which you can spray on your hosts- top and bottom of the leaves - which helps make them unpalatable to slugs. Cannot remember the name bit will try to look it up. 6. Going round every evening, picking the bloody things and drowning them. 7. Getting a hedgehog.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
Is it breaking normal noise pollution rules or not? Its a very simple question I've asked 6 times and you've not answered.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
"The Boris-as-murderer nonsense most clearly reveals the moral disorientation of the cultural elites. Their rage against a mass-murdering government tells us very little about the state of governance in Boris’s Britain but a great deal about their state of mind. In their very use of such intemperate, inaccurate language, they reveal that their aim is not to have a reckoning with the potential failures of the British state over the past few weeks, but rather to release their rash, pent-up fury over their own sense of dislocation from the political turn of the past few years and their lack of any sense of how to connect with the public."
I remember an old poster, ShornTea or something. In a near permanent state of hysteria, screaming about needing to know the religion of bin lorry drivers, demand Muslims be forced to convert or be deported etc.
He got so nervous about his posting history he got it all deleted.
Interesting to think about.
He sounds fun. I am sadly much more sober
His crowning moment was when in one of his high stinks about how Islam was uniquely evil he mocked the very idea of Buddhist terrorism as a concept just when the Buddhist ethnic cleansing in Burma against Muslims was really kicking into high gear.
"The Boris-as-murderer nonsense most clearly reveals the moral disorientation of the cultural elites. Their rage against a mass-murdering government tells us very little about the state of governance in Boris’s Britain but a great deal about their state of mind. In their very use of such intemperate, inaccurate language, they reveal that their aim is not to have a reckoning with the potential failures of the British state over the past few weeks, but rather to release their rash, pent-up fury over their own sense of dislocation from the political turn of the past few years and their lack of any sense of how to connect with the public."
They just hate Boris as much as they have hated any Tory leader since Thatcher because he ran on a right wing populist agenda that appealed to the provinces and utterly crushed the liberal left like Thatcher did.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
Is it breaking normal noise pollution rules or not? Its a very simple question I've asked 6 times and you've not answered.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
Same rules for everyone.
It was such a silly question I ignored it. It is like asking the length of a piece of string. But yes the call to prayer as heard via loudspeakers would break noise pollution rules.
Not sure why they can't be an exception, compare it to church bells on a Sunday morning or practicies in the week?
Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.
I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?
My tips:- 1. Get some copper bands - available online from lots of places eg Harrod Horticultural - and put them around the base of the hosts so that they form a protective collar with no space underneath for the snails to creep in. Slugs don't like the shock they get from the copper. 2. Egg shells or grit inside the copper band or generally around the hosts helps because slugs don't like climbing over them. 3. Slug pellets work. You only need a few and you can mix them into the grit. 4. Nematodes: also available from Harrod Horticultural. A powder which mixes with water and gets poured over your garden. The nematodes eat the slugs before they have a chance to grow. You need to do a course with the company sending you the powder every few weeks so you get continuous coverage. 5. There is a spray which you can spray on your hosts- top and bottom of the leaves - which helps make them unpalatable to slugs. Cannot remember the name bit will try to look it up. 6. Going round every evening, picking the bloody things and drowning them. 7. Getting a hedgehog.
I do a combination of all these things.
Say hello to my hosta-protector:
Public service announcement: DO NOT give cow's milk to hedgehogs, it's bad for them. Cat food (non-fish) is what they like.
The 1bn items the Government keeps banging on about is made up of stuff you wouldnt immediately class as PPE such as cleaning equipment 78million, paper towels 1.7m, detergent.waste bags 18.4m etc
By far the most number of items is gloves making up more than half the entire total 521million items (260m pairs) Next biggest by miles is flimsy plastic aprons 177m Gowns??? Fuck all (about 10 days worth per Trust) Staff mainly using home made visors and self sourced proper masks or inappropriate surgical masks
Just as bad in Wales whose Government have done no better than in England
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
Is it breaking normal noise pollution rules or not? Its a very simple question I've asked 6 times and you've not answered.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
Same rules for everyone.
It was such a silly question I ignored it. It is like asking the length of a piece of string. But yes the call to prayer as heard via loudspeakers would break noise pollution rules.
People use loudspeakers in other day to day life. Loudspeakers are not illegal per se. Businesses and individuals already use them.
There are laws and regulations regarding loudspeakers that apply to all sorts of businesses and individuals. The exact same laws should apply to religions without any exemptions.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
Do not succumb to anti Muslim prejudice. Fight it. All will be with you, win or lose.
"Lockdown-free Stockholm 'could achieve herd immunity in May': Claim by Swedish ambassador as she reveals 30% of the city's population already have immunity"
Male lions are also lazy as fuck, leaving the females to do all the hunting, and have sex up to a hundred times a day but only last about 10 seconds. A surprising number of them are into m on m gay sex, too.
- Halfon for the chop?
I don't suppose Boris does natural history.
btw never mind clapping on Thursday, there's a minute silence at 11 a.m. tomorrow and the poppy fascists will have you for breach of that. It hasn't expressly been declared a weekly event, but I bet it will be.
My wife’s parents were busy last Thursday evening. So they forgot to clap. They then had several hostile texts from neighbours, saying Where were you, Why weren’t you clapping
I fucking hate this. With the news that NHS workers are actually slightly LESS likely to die of COVID than the rest of us, I m done with clapping
This Thursday I might go out at 8pm and boo health workers. In a Syrian accent. While wearing a burqa and waving the confederate flag. Just to confuse everyone.
That is dreadful. I hate that sort of fascism.
Incidentally it struck me the other day that if you wanted to stage a takeover in this country you'd just rebrand everything as our NHS stormtroopers, our NHS Pretorian Guard, and so forth. Who would dare resist?
Isn't sticking 'Royal' onto these things the traditional way of doing things in this country?
The Royal Deployment Groups or Her Majesty's Secret State Police could probably be set up to popular acclaim.
True, but I think the NHS took the lead by, at the latest, 2012.
They just hate Boris as much as they have hated any Tory leader since Thatcher because he ran on a right wing populist agenda that appealed to the provinces and utterly crushed the liberal left like Thatcher did.
There is nothing so bitter as a bad loser
Johnson defeated the Left - there was nothing liberal about Corbyn. Indeed, liberals backed Johnson to ensure Corbyn and his radical socialist nonsense was defeated.
Next time, with a record to defend and against a far more sensible Labour leader in Starmer and a far more reasonable policy programme, liberals may well consider Johnson the greater of the two evils.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
Is it breaking normal noise pollution rules or not? Its a very simple question I've asked 6 times and you've not answered.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
Same rules for everyone.
It was such a silly question I ignored it. It is like asking the length of a piece of string. But yes the call to prayer as heard via loudspeakers would break noise pollution rules.
Not sure why they can't be an exception, compare it to church bells on a Sunday morning or practicies in the week?
Yes. A decent compromise might be once a week at evening.
But Islam is an absolutist belief system which is not generally amenable to compromise, which is kinda my point.
Muslims having a shit time in India atm, being largely blamed for CV.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
The Muslim population in the UK is very concentrated in a few areas like East London, Slough, Bradford, Birmingham and Leicester in areas like Surrey, Sussex and Bucks thete are hardly any Muslims at all so there is not the demand for more Mosques or loudspeakers.
If you choose to live in East London you have to accept it has a large Muslim population and the cultural influence that follows in the area
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
Is it breaking normal noise pollution rules or not? Its a very simple question I've asked 6 times and you've not answered.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
Same rules for everyone.
It was such a silly question I ignored it. It is like asking the length of a piece of string. But yes the call to prayer as heard via loudspeakers would break noise pollution rules.
Not sure why they can't be an exception, compare it to church bells on a Sunday morning or practicies in the week?
Or compare it to a pub that wishes to use loudspeakers on a Saturday night?
Loudspeaker regulations apply to everyone. Be consistent.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
The Muslim population in the UK is very concentrated in a few areas like East London, Slough, Bradford, Birmingham and Leicester in areas like Surrey, Sussex and Bucks thete are hardly any Muslims at all so there is not the demand for more Mosques or loudspeakers.
If you choose to live in East London you have to accept it has a large Muslim population and the cultural influence that follows in the area
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
I've not heard it before so perhaps I can't comment but I don't see the big difference between that and Church bells etc ringing out?
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Because it’s five times a day, every day, forever, and the first one is around dawn. And these loudspeakers are loud. It dominates neighbourhoods.
In multiracial countries where it is allowed - India is the best case - its a huge source of resentment. The recent, deadly Delhi riots were linked to anger at the prayers.
Loudspeakers that wouldn't be permitted under normal noise pollution rules shouldn't be permitted. If they would be permitted under normal noise pollution rules they should.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
You don’t seem to understand how Islam aggressively advances, until something troubling, but required by Islam, becomes normalised in a passive host society. Look at halal meat for everyone.
If we allow mosques to do one loud evening prayer, then they will ask for all five, every day. And no doubt we will fold and allow that, too.
Eventually you will hear it constantly in every British town. From 5am. Just as halal meat is now fed to everyone.
Do not succumb to anti Muslim prejudice. Fight it. All will be with you, win or lose.
Personally, I find the call to prayer rather moving. The cry of the human soul, petitioning Heaven.
If you’re in a sultry Kurdish town at dusk, and you suddenly hear these lamentations rise Into the sky, like fragrant smoke, from a hundred slender minarets, it can be magical.
But in Britain, nope
I know what you mean. It sounded amazing to me in Istanbul.
But here's an observation which I think is relevant -
You can make a fluent and rational argument that aspects of strict Islam do not sit well in a modern liberal democracy. No problem doing that and no problem hearing it.
But if somebody is FOREVER making that argument apropos of nothing then this is indicative of anti Muslim prejudice.
"Frank, can you pass the salt?"
"Yeah. Now about halal meat ..."
This sort of thing. You must see what I'm getting at.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
Is it breaking normal noise pollution rules or not? Its a very simple question I've asked 6 times and you've not answered.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
Same rules for everyone.
It was such a silly question I ignored it. It is like asking the length of a piece of string. But yes the call to prayer as heard via loudspeakers would break noise pollution rules.
Not sure why they can't be an exception, compare it to church bells on a Sunday morning or practicies in the week?
Yes. A decent compromise might be once a week at evening.
But Islam is an absolutist belief system which is not generally amenable to compromise, which is kinda my point.
Muslims having a shit time in India atm, being largely blamed for CV.
They just hate Boris as much as they have hated any Tory leader since Thatcher because he ran on a right wing populist agenda that appealed to the provinces and utterly crushed the liberal left like Thatcher did.
There is nothing so bitter as a bad loser
Johnson defeated the Left - there was nothing liberal about Corbyn. Indeed, liberals backed Johnson to ensure Corbyn and his radical socialist nonsense was defeated.
Next time, with a record to defend and against a far more sensible Labour leader in Starmer and a far more reasonable policy programme, liberals may well consider Johnson the greater of the two evils.
Johnson did not just defeat the Corbynite left, he also defeated the anti Brexit FBPE LD crowd.
It was the biggest victory for the traditional conservative right in the UK since Thatcher beat Foot and Roy Jenkins
Let's hope someone asks why the NHS think they can build an app that doesn't follow the proposal by Apple and Google.
The app is the big question of the day they should be asking about. Firstly, privacy issues and secondly we have decided to diverge from the Apple / Google APIs and going for a centralized system.
This is a big call. If this thing is a shambles, it effects everything.
They should just demand Apple and Google build an app and make it an automatic download (ie you have to proactively opt out of it, and if you do, you remain locked down)
That only applies to those who have access to modern technology etc. I have never owned a Smartphone.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
The Muslim population in the UK is very concentrated in a few areas like East London, Slough, Bradford, Birmingham and Leicester in areas like Surrey, Sussex and Bucks thete are hardly any Muslims at all so there is not the demand for more Mosques or loudspeakers.
If you choose to live in East London you have to accept it has a large Muslim population and the cultural influence that follows in the area
What about the rights of non-Muslims?
Nobody is forcing them to convert to Islam and go to Mosque
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
Is it breaking normal noise pollution rules or not? Its a very simple question I've asked 6 times and you've not answered.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
Same rules for everyone.
It was such a silly question I ignored it. It is like asking the length of a piece of string. But yes the call to prayer as heard via loudspeakers would break noise pollution rules.
Not sure why they can't be an exception, compare it to church bells on a Sunday morning or practicies in the week?
Yes. A decent compromise might be once a week at evening.
But Islam is an absolutist belief system which is not generally amenable to compromise, which is kinda my point.
Muslims having a shit time in India atm, being largely blamed for CV.
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
In my part of East London, there is no problem. The devout Muslims travel to the local mosque as the Sikhs go to the local gurdwara and the Hindus to the mandir or temple. No calls to prayer or anything like that - all fine.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
HYUFD supports ethnic cleannsing! Has he converted to Islam or summat?!
Government were told in 2019 by its advisors that National stockpile of Gowns were critically low the Government didnt buy any gowns at all in 2019 despite a report telling them they needed to. Not a single body bag (not even one) before end of Feb 2020
Visors not a single one before March 2020 bought by Govt
Respirator masks No
February was crucial and put us at the back of the PPE queue
Male lions are also lazy as fuck, leaving the females to do all the hunting, and have sex up to a hundred times a day but only last about 10 seconds. A surprising number of them are into m on m gay sex, too.
- Halfon for the chop?
I don't suppose Boris does natural history.
btw never mind clapping on Thursday, there's a minute silence at 11 a.m. tomorrow and the poppy fascists will have you for breach of that. It hasn't expressly been declared a weekly event, but I bet it will be.
My wife’s parents were busy last Thursday evening. So they forgot to clap. They then had several hostile texts from neighbours, saying Where were you, Why weren’t you clapping
I fucking hate this. With the news that NHS workers are actually slightly LESS likely to die of COVID than the rest of us, I m done with clapping
This Thursday I might go out at 8pm and boo health workers. In a Syrian accent. While wearing a burqa and waving the confederate flag. Just to confuse everyone.
That is dreadful. I hate that sort of fascism.
Incidentally it struck me the other day that if you wanted to stage a takeover in this country you'd just rebrand everything as our NHS stormtroopers, our NHS Pretorian Guard, and so forth. Who would dare resist?
Isn't sticking 'Royal' onto these things the traditional way of doing things in this country?
The Royal Deployment Groups or Her Majesty's Secret State Police could probably be set up to popular acclaim.
True, but I think the NHS took the lead by, at the latest, 2012.
Light bulb moment.
The Royal National Health Service euthanasia programme.
Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.
I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?
My tips:- 1. Get some copper bands - available online from lots of places eg Harrod Horticultural - and put them around the base of the hosts so that they form a protective collar with no space underneath for the snails to creep in. Slugs don't like the shock they get from the copper. 2. Egg shells or grit inside the copper band or generally around the hosts helps because slugs don't like climbing over them. 3. Slug pellets work. You only need a few and you can mix them into the grit. 4. Nematodes: also available from Harrod Horticultural. A powder which mixes with water and gets poured over your garden. The nematodes eat the slugs before they have a chance to grow. You need to do a course with the company sending you the powder every few weeks so you get continuous coverage. 5. There is a spray which you can spray on your hosts- top and bottom of the leaves - which helps make them unpalatable to slugs. Cannot remember the name bit will try to look it up. 6. Going round every evening, picking the bloody things and drowning them. 7. Getting a hedgehog.
I do a combination of all these things.
Say hello to my hosta-protector:
Public service announcement: DO NOT give cow's milk to hedgehogs, it's bad for them. Cat food (non-fish) is what they like.
Naturally lactose-intolerant. I don't give him anything other than as many free range slugs as he can eat.
Johnson did not just defeat the Corbynite left, he also defeated the anti Brexit FBPE LD crowd.
It was the biggest victory for the traditional conservative right in the UK since Thatcher beat Foot and Roy Jenkins
I see - so Johnson is "the traditional Conservative right". Fair enough, I thought he was a populist.
I also thought the traditional Conservative right emphasised fiscal responsibility yet we had Johnson borrowing even before the virus and now we are looking at a deficit of £300 billion.
Yet you said the other evening Johnson was going, to paraphrase Claudia and Tess, to "keep borrowing" so sound financial management there - keep borrowing and bequeath a huge debt for future generations to service.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
My first flat in London was on the Archway Road next door to the church just north of suicide bridge. The church bells were a bloody nuisance, especially on Sunday mornings, and I often dreamed of breaking in and silencing them once and for all.
Johnson did not just defeat the Corbynite left, he also defeated the anti Brexit FBPE LD crowd.
It was the biggest victory for the traditional conservative right in the UK since Thatcher beat Foot and Roy Jenkins
I see - so Johnson is "the traditional Conservative right". Fair enough, I thought he was a populist.
I also thought the traditional Conservative right emphasised fiscal responsibility yet we had Johnson borrowing even before the virus and now we are looking at a deficit of £300 billion.
Yet you said the other evening Johnson was going, to paraphrase Claudia and Tess, to "keep borrowing" so sound financial management there - keep borrowing and bequeath a huge debt for future generations to service.
All very traditional.
Doing what they need to get and retain power could not be more traditional Conservative.
Johnson did not just defeat the Corbynite left, he also defeated the anti Brexit FBPE LD crowd.
It was the biggest victory for the traditional conservative right in the UK since Thatcher beat Foot and Roy Jenkins
I see - so Johnson is "the traditional Conservative right". Fair enough, I thought he was a populist.
I also thought the traditional Conservative right emphasised fiscal responsibility yet we had Johnson borrowing even before the virus and now we are looking at a deficit of £300 billion.
Yet you said the other evening Johnson was going, to paraphrase Claudia and Tess, to "keep borrowing" so sound financial management there - keep borrowing and bequeath a huge debt for future generations to service.
All very traditional.
It is actually classical liberalism which is most keen on cutting spending, hence the Coalition was more keen on austerity than Boris is and hence the LDs had the most fiscally balanced manifesto last year.
The traditional Conservative right is more about social conservatism, patriotism and flag waving, a tough law and order agenda, immigration controls and an anti EU agenda with some tax cuts on top.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
The Muslim population in the UK is very concentrated in a few areas like East London, Slough, Bradford, Birmingham and Leicester in areas like Surrey, Sussex and Bucks thete are hardly any Muslims at all so there is not the demand for more Mosques or loudspeakers.
If you choose to live in East London you have to accept it has a large Muslim population and the cultural influence that follows in the area
What about the rights of non-Muslims?
Nobody is forcing them to convert to Islam and go to Mosque
Is anybody forcing Muslims to adhere to Islam and go to Mosque? Why do you seem to only care about Muslims?
Gardening Corner with @Cyclefree. Today's garden question - (13), I think.
I like hostas, as do slugs. My many clumps and pots of inherited hostas are about to break through. How do I protect them from slugs? Is it as simple as a band of eggshells on the soil (of which I have also inherited a fair quantity)?
My tips:- 1. Get some copper bands - available online from lots of places eg Harrod Horticultural - and put them around the base of the hosts so that they form a protective collar with no space underneath for the snails to creep in. Slugs don't like the shock they get from the copper. 2. Egg shells or grit inside the copper band or generally around the hosts helps because slugs don't like climbing over them. 3. Slug pellets work. You only need a few and you can mix them into the grit. 4. Nematodes: also available from Harrod Horticultural. A powder which mixes with water and gets poured over your garden. The nematodes eat the slugs before they have a chance to grow. You need to do a course with the company sending you the powder every few weeks so you get continuous coverage. 5. There is a spray which you can spray on your hosts- top and bottom of the leaves - which helps make them unpalatable to slugs. Cannot remember the name bit will try to look it up. 6. Going round every evening, picking the bloody things and drowning them. 7. Getting a hedgehog.
I do a combination of all these things.
Say hello to my hosta-protector:
Public service announcement: DO NOT give cow's milk to hedgehogs, it's bad for them. Cat food (non-fish) is what they like.
Naturally lactose-intolerant. I don't give him anything other than as many free range slugs as he can eat.
Yes I thought you would know, but lots of people don't.
Probably the same as how Alistair just quoted them. You're already permitted to quote Tweets and they're just making clear in advance how they intend to use any Tweets.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
The Muslim population in the UK is very concentrated in a few areas like East London, Slough, Bradford, Birmingham and Leicester in areas like Surrey, Sussex and Bucks thete are hardly any Muslims at all so there is not the demand for more Mosques or loudspeakers.
If you choose to live in East London you have to accept it has a large Muslim population and the cultural influence that follows in the area
What about the rights of non-Muslims?
Nobody is forcing them to convert to Islam and go to Mosque
Is anybody forcing Muslims to adhere to Islam and go to Mosque? Why do you seem to only care about Muslims?
I care about religious freedom and Christian Churches right to ring Church bells too
One of the funniest phenomena on PB: a bunch of socially retarded no mates political geeks saying they would have no problem with a more or less permanent lockdown.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
Is it breaking normal noise pollution rules or not? Its a very simple question I've asked 6 times and you've not answered.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
Same rules for everyone.
It was such a silly question I ignored it. It is like asking the length of a piece of string. But yes the call to prayer as heard via loudspeakers would break noise pollution rules.
Not sure why they can't be an exception, compare it to church bells on a Sunday morning or practicies in the week?
Yes. A decent compromise might be once a week at evening.
But Islam is an absolutist belief system which is not generally amenable to compromise, which is kinda my point.
Muslims having a shit time in India atm, being largely blamed for CV.
Which is strange because part of the WUDU is a decent model for regular handwashing.
"Whether you’re more Giesecke or Ferguson, it’s time to stop pretending that our response to this threat is simply a scientific question, or even an easy moral choice between right and wrong. It’s a question of what sort of world we want to live in, and at what cost."
One of the funniest phenomena on PB: a bunch of socially retarded no mates political geeks saying they would have no problem with a more or less permanent lockdown.
Lockdown-free Stockholm 'could achieve herd immunity in May': Claim by Swedish ambassador as she reveals 30% of the city's population already have immunity
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
The Muslim population in the UK is very concentrated in a few areas like East London, Slough, Bradford, Birmingham and Leicester in areas like Surrey, Sussex and Bucks thete are hardly any Muslims at all so there is not the demand for more Mosques or loudspeakers.
If you choose to live in East London you have to accept it has a large Muslim population and the cultural influence that follows in the area
What about the rights of non-Muslims?
Nobody is forcing them to convert to Islam and go to Mosque
Is anybody forcing Muslims to adhere to Islam and go to Mosque? Why do you seem to only care about Muslims?
I care about religious freedom and Christian Churches right to ring Church bells too
a) Religious freedom is a contradiction in terms! Especially with a belief system with umpteen different and often strict rules!
b) Church bells are part of traditionally Conservative Britain. As opposed to loudspeaker calls to prayer!
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
The Muslim population in the UK is very concentrated in a few areas like East London, Slough, Bradford, Birmingham and Leicester in areas like Surrey, Sussex and Bucks thete are hardly any Muslims at all so there is not the demand for more Mosques or loudspeakers.
If you choose to live in East London you have to accept it has a large Muslim population and the cultural influence that follows in the area
What about the rights of non-Muslims?
Nobody is forcing them to convert to Islam and go to Mosque
Is anybody forcing Muslims to adhere to Islam and go to Mosque? Why do you seem to only care about Muslims?
I care about religious freedom and Christian Churches right to ring Church bells too
So long as its the same as other businesses then so do I.
Some people don't want to live next door to a pub because of a pub's loudspeakers. These things happen in a free society. There is a balancing act between letting people do what they want and not harming others.
Comments
Coronavirus lingers in the air of crowded spaces and rooms that lack ventilation, researchers find
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8261931/Killer-coronavirus-lingers-air-crowded-spaces-rooms-lack-ventilation.html
I now walk round to the local cornershop but if your locally delivery option is McColls don't accept the offer unless they've updated their billing software to handle vouchers.
Everyone has obeyed the rules to the letter so far.
Those imagining that football on TV would not lead to huge break down of social distancing are naïve in the extreme.
If it is intrusive noise pollution then it shouldn't be allowed regardless of religion. If it is just something different but background noise then its no issue.
Care to let us have your definition of "garden"?
1. Get some copper bands - available online from lots of places eg Harrod Horticultural - and put them around the base of the hosts so that they form a protective collar with no space underneath for the snails to creep in. Slugs don't like the shock they get from the copper.
2. Egg shells or grit inside the copper band or generally around the hosts helps because slugs don't like climbing over them.
3. Slug pellets work. You only need a few and you can mix them into the grit.
4. Nematodes: also available from Harrod Horticultural. A powder which mixes with water and gets poured over your garden. The nematodes eat the slugs before they have a chance to grow. You need to do a course with the company sending you the powder every few weeks so you get continuous coverage.
5. There is a spray which you can spray on your hosts- top and bottom of the leaves - which helps make them unpalatable to slugs. Cannot remember the name bit will try to look it up.
6. Going round every evening, picking the bloody things and drowning them.
7. Getting a hedgehog.
I do a combination of all these things.
Religion shouldn't sway it either way.
The app is opt in. It allows you to go out and about. If you don't want to play ball, you stay at home.
People make noises day and night either way. Again normal noise pollution rules should apply. If at 5am its comparable to a van or train going past and can be blocked out with double-glazing then I don't care. If its loud enough it gets through double-glazing and wake people up then it should be illegal.
https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1254834459846811651?s=19
Shouldn’t it be Stay At Home rather than Stay Home? The latter sounds rather American, like ‘write me’.
If we make non-stunning illegal that should apply to all but if its not then I'm not going to highlight halal.
There should not be any religious exemptions in law.
The Royal Deployment Groups or Her Majesty's Secret State Police could probably be set up to popular acclaim.
If its illegal that should be for a reason and should apply to all.
If there's not a reason for it to be illegal it should be legal for all.
No exceptions.
Can’t remember who it was though. Name’s on the Tip of my Tongue.
But Eadric can’t be him because I remember he hated Cardiff.
He got so nervous about his posting history he got it all deleted.
Interesting to think about.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-furloughed-workers-to-be-encouraged-to-take-fruit-picking-jobs-to-help-uk-harvest-11979143
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-42086315
Although my personal favourite was the neighbour of a church who complained that the bells were too loud, and therefore had the ringers locked out of the ringing chamber.
The reason he could do that is because he was the Rector.
If you hear it while out and its within otherwise existing rules then who cares?
If it would be illegal for anyone else it should remain illegal and not have a religious exemption.
If you don’t like it you can grin and beer it.
If it would break normal rules then there shouldn't be a 'religious' exemption.
If it wouldn't then it shouldn't be illegal just because it is religious.
Same rules for everyone.
"The Boris-as-murderer nonsense most clearly reveals the moral disorientation of the cultural elites. Their rage against a mass-murdering government tells us very little about the state of governance in Boris’s Britain but a great deal about their state of mind. In their very use of such intemperate, inaccurate language, they reveal that their aim is not to have a reckoning with the potential failures of the British state over the past few weeks, but rather to release their rash, pent-up fury over their own sense of dislocation from the political turn of the past few years and their lack of any sense of how to connect with the public."
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/27/the-moral-infantilism-of-calling-boris-a-murderer/
There is nothing so bitter as a bad loser
The 1bn items the Government keeps banging on about is made up of stuff you wouldnt immediately class as PPE such as cleaning equipment 78million, paper towels 1.7m, detergent.waste bags 18.4m etc
By far the most number of items is gloves making up more than half the entire total 521million items (260m pairs)
Next biggest by miles is flimsy plastic aprons 177m
Gowns??? Fuck all (about 10 days worth per Trust)
Staff mainly using home made visors and self sourced proper masks or inappropriate surgical masks
Just as bad in Wales whose Government have done no better than in England
There are laws and regulations regarding loudspeakers that apply to all sorts of businesses and individuals. The exact same laws should apply to religions without any exemptions.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8261519/Stockholm-achieve-herd-immunity-Claim-Swedish-ambassador-US.html
Next time, with a record to defend and against a far more sensible Labour leader in Starmer and a far more reasonable policy programme, liberals may well consider Johnson the greater of the two evils.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
If you choose to live in East London you have to accept it has a large Muslim population and the cultural influence that follows in the area
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/27/liverpool-postpone-anfield-road-stand-expansion-covid
HS2 supporters should take note.
Loudspeaker regulations apply to everyone. Be consistent.
But here's an observation which I think is relevant -
You can make a fluent and rational argument that aspects of strict Islam do not sit well in a modern liberal democracy. No problem doing that and no problem hearing it.
But if somebody is FOREVER making that argument apropos of nothing then this is indicative of anti Muslim prejudice.
"Frank, can you pass the salt?"
"Yeah. Now about halal meat ..."
This sort of thing. You must see what I'm getting at.
Let's hope when this is all over, the government finally sorts out the disgrace that is social care in this country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps
It was the biggest victory for the traditional conservative right in the UK since Thatcher beat Foot and Roy Jenkins
Has he converted to Islam or summat?!
Not a single body bag (not even one) before end of Feb 2020
Visors not a single one before March 2020 bought by Govt
Respirator masks No
February was crucial and put us at the back of the PPE queue
The Royal National Health Service euthanasia programme.
Are you saying the future has no income?
https://twitter.com/Isabel_hunt710/status/1254319871153844226
I also thought the traditional Conservative right emphasised fiscal responsibility yet we had Johnson borrowing even before the virus and now we are looking at a deficit of £300 billion.
Yet you said the other evening Johnson was going, to paraphrase Claudia and Tess, to "keep borrowing" so sound financial management there - keep borrowing and bequeath a huge debt for future generations to service.
All very traditional.
That's what regulations are for.
The traditional Conservative right is more about social conservatism, patriotism and flag waving, a tough law and order agenda, immigration controls and an anti EU agenda with some tax cuts on top.
Why do you seem to only care about Muslims?
The debate about lockdown is not a contest between good and evil
BY FREDDIE SAYERS"
https://unherd.com/2020/04/which-epidemiologist-do-you-believe/
"Whether you’re more Giesecke or Ferguson, it’s time to stop pretending that our response to this threat is simply a scientific question, or even an easy moral choice between right and wrong. It’s a question of what sort of world we want to live in, and at what cost."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8261519/Stockholm-achieve-herd-immunity-Claim-Swedish-ambassador-US.html
b) Church bells are part of traditionally Conservative Britain. As opposed to loudspeaker calls to prayer!
Some people don't want to live next door to a pub because of a pub's loudspeakers. These things happen in a free society. There is a balancing act between letting people do what they want and not harming others.