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  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    If Korea is in the news, I can make one of my very rare TV show recommendations. The Korean version of the Good Doctor, available on Netflix, is utterly charming. Totally ridiculous and a lot of fun. Much better balanced than the US version, once you accept the fairytale nature of the programme.

    I liked the good Doctor - does the Korean version go by the same title?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    GIN1138 said:

    Are we going to have 40 years of internal Tory feuding and multiple governments/prime ministers destroyed over our China policy?
    I’m waiting for the Tory China hawks to decide that we need closer European integration.
    We need closer Western cooperation and possibly global democratic cooperation.

    This should be a foreign, defence and economic alliance between sovereign nations. Not a project to build a new country.
    Yes of course that would be great! But its not going to happen regardless of what we want to happen, so we need a strategy for dealing with less Western co-operation, more nationalism, isolationism and trade tensions than we have seen for the last 25-30 years.

    China and Russia will have long term plans on how to benefit from this period whilst our politicians will lurch from incident to incident with no coherent plan beyond appearing popular in the press.
    Russia is facing one of the starkest strategic dilemmas of all, and may need to reorient its foreign policy towards Western integration.
    You could quite possibly see a US-Russia alliance vs Western Europe emerge if Trump wins again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    This football challenge, it is a lot easier to include players from 70s and 80s as many only played for 2-3 teams across their entire careers.

    With the modern ones, not only move around more, but check they didn't turn out for a load of clubs on loan like harry kane (obv not saying he would get near it) did as a youngster.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    tlg86 said:

    My team per the no duplicate teams rule:

    Jaaskeleinen

    Alexander-Arnold
    Kompany
    Montero
    Maldini

    Extebberia
    Moutinho
    Keane
    Pires

    Messi

    Lewandowski

    Jaaskelainen ahead of Big Nev?
    Give over.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Floater said:

    If Korea is in the news, I can make one of my very rare TV show recommendations. The Korean version of the Good Doctor, available on Netflix, is utterly charming. Totally ridiculous and a lot of fun. Much better balanced than the US version, once you accept the fairytale nature of the programme.

    I liked the good Doctor - does the Korean version go by the same title?
    Yes. The Korean was the original.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I'd recommend watching that full Unherd interview with Ferguson:

    https://twitter.com/freddiesayers/status/1254055568626630656

    This is actually one of the issues he talks about. One thing that's complicated is that the problem of people being unable to access healthcare is, in different respects, both exacerbated but also relieved by lockdown.

    Without lockdown you've got overcrowded hospitals and no capacity for other procedures. In fact until and unless lockdown manages to reduces cases to a manageable number, there'll still be the problem of eg vulnerable people not being able to go to hospital for fear of nosocomial infection, and things like chemotherapy/organ transplant being extremely dangerous due to their effect on the immune system. I don't think it's as simple as saying "if we had abolished lockdown, all this other health care would have been able to continue as normal".

    But on the other hand, and Ferguson admits this in the interview, lockdown does produce serious health harms. It's a tricky one, frankly.

    Yeah, I'm probably being unfair to the modellers, or at any rate some of them. I think when I wrote my previous remarks that my mood was being partially influenced by reading a piece about how disappointing the decline in hospitalisations was being viewed as by some medical personnages, with one venturing so far as to suggest that he thought that lockdown needed to continue as is for months. If it goes on like this until the Autumn then most of the economic damage will probably end up being permanent, the country will be seriously impoverished, and then what happens to the state of healthcare - let alone to the well being of the many millions of workers languishing on the scrapheap, who what's left of the state will struggle to keep from starvation?

    I think my general point is that death and disaster can't be avoided, but its extent is still to be determined - and that determination has to be made in an holistic fashion. If this is just left to the medics then they'll try to keep things as they are until a vaccine is available - except that there may never be a vaccine, and even if there is societal collapse would probably occur before it became available.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited April 2020
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    My team per the no duplicate teams rule:

    Jaaskeleinen

    Alexander-Arnold
    Kompany
    Montero
    Maldini

    Extebberia
    Moutinho
    Keane
    Pires

    Messi

    Lewandowski

    Jaaskelainen ahead of Big Nev?
    Give over.
    I’d like to say I’m too young to have seen Southall, but I saw him play against Sheffield Wednesday in April 95.

    I like to be different so it was either Juusi or that Colombian who did the scorpion kick.

    EDIT: I could have Jan Oblak, he’s quite good.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    eek said:

    On Kim Jong Un, the rumours seem to be numerous and some from apparently well-connected sources:

    https://twitter.com/minchaochoy/status/1253879387868598279?s=21

    I’m inclined to believe that he’s dead.

    Yep, I thought that when the rumours appeared earlier this week and no footage appeared to contradict it. Nothing has changed that opinion.
    He might not be dead. He might just be resting?
    Perhaps he's shagged out after a long squawk and is pining for the fjords - lovely plumage, the North Korean Blue.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    I might do tomorrow afternoon's thread about the Kim family in North Korea actually have more democratic legitimacy than our Royal Family.

    MONARCHY = SOCIALISM! :lol:
    Monarchy = One Nation Conservativism
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    The Death of Stalin was a hilarious movie of the panic and murderous jockeying for power after the death of a tyrant. So future movie makers may get good material out of things if they take a dark turn for Mr Kim, even if those in the short term won't.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Floater said:

    If Korea is in the news, I can make one of my very rare TV show recommendations. The Korean version of the Good Doctor, available on Netflix, is utterly charming. Totally ridiculous and a lot of fun. Much better balanced than the US version, once you accept the fairytale nature of the programme.

    I liked the good Doctor - does the Korean version go by the same title?
    Yes. The Korean was the original.
    Which is the Freddie Highmoor version?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    The Tories won a majority on a manifesto of low tax and high spend in 2019, May lost her majority in 2017 on a manifesto of high tax and low spend in 2017. Like it or not that is the mandate the voters gave the Tories and Boris.

    As I said before the LDs are the most fiscally conservative party at the moment

    As Martin Fry said before, "that was then but this is now".

    Simply parroting the mantra of events from what now seem an eternity ago butters no parsnips with me. Obviously, the Government is the victim of circumstances which were (supposedly) unforeseeable back last December.

    The "mandate" you cling to no longer exists or applies as the world has changed. I've asked you how you think a Conservative Government would or should respond to the new challenges provided by covid-19 and your response, to paraphrase Claudia and Tess is "keep borrowing".

    That would make the Conservatives one of two high spending social democratic parties - why should we vote for them rather than Labour next time?
    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    As I said if you don't like it vote LD, as pursuing austerity worked out so well for them last time!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    stodge said:

    eek said:

    On Kim Jong Un, the rumours seem to be numerous and some from apparently well-connected sources:

    https://twitter.com/minchaochoy/status/1253879387868598279?s=21

    I’m inclined to believe that he’s dead.

    Yep, I thought that when the rumours appeared earlier this week and no footage appeared to contradict it. Nothing has changed that opinion.
    He might not be dead. He might just be resting?
    Perhaps he's shagged out after a long squawk and is pining for the fjords - lovely plumage, the North Korean Blue.
    'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This despot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-DESPOT!!
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Self consciously, it appears from the YouGov chart above that this lefty free-range organic octogenarian is unrepresentative. I do apologise for my age group.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    I thought the 'Priti says shoplifting down' was an irony thing.

    Golly.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    This football challenge, it is a lot easier to include players from 70s and 80s as many only played for 2-3 teams across their entire careers.

    With the modern ones, not only move around more, but check they didn't turn out for a load of clubs on loan like harry kane (obv not saying he would get near it) did as a youngster.

    Norwich City was surely the highlight off Kane's career to date!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    dr_spyn said:
    Labour bounces back to 1% above the 32% it got at the last general election
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    If Korea is in the news, I can make one of my very rare TV show recommendations. The Korean version of the Good Doctor, available on Netflix, is utterly charming. Totally ridiculous and a lot of fun. Much better balanced than the US version, once you accept the fairytale nature of the programme.

    I liked the good Doctor - does the Korean version go by the same title?
    Yes. The Korean was the original.
    Which is the Freddie Highmoor version?
    The US one. He is very good in the lead role.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    My team per the no duplicate teams rule:

    Jaaskeleinen

    Alexander-Arnold
    Kompany
    Montero
    Maldini

    Extebberia
    Moutinho
    Keane
    Pires

    Messi

    Lewandowski

    Jaaskelainen ahead of Big Nev?
    Give over.
    I’d like to say I’m too young to have seen Southall, but I saw him play against Sheffield Wednesday in April 95.

    I like to be different so it was either Juusi or that Colombian who did the scorpion kick.

    EDIT: I could have Jan Oblak, he’s quite good.
    Going back a very long way Lev Yashin. Rated the very best by the majority who saw him
    Only excludes Spartan and USSR.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    My team per the no duplicate teams rule:

    Jaaskeleinen

    Alexander-Arnold
    Kompany
    Montero
    Maldini

    Extebberia
    Moutinho
    Keane
    Pires

    Messi

    Lewandowski

    Jaaskelainen ahead of Big Nev?
    Give over.
    I’d like to say I’m too young to have seen Southall, but I saw him play against Sheffield Wednesday in April 95.

    I like to be different so it was either Juusi or that Colombian who did the scorpion kick.

    EDIT: I could have Jan Oblak, he’s quite good.
    Going back a very long way Lev Yashin. Rated the very best by the majority who saw him

    Only excludes Spartan and USSR.
    Definitely before my time!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    eek said:

    On Kim Jong Un, the rumours seem to be numerous and some from apparently well-connected sources:

    https://twitter.com/minchaochoy/status/1253879387868598279?s=21

    I’m inclined to believe that he’s dead.

    Yep, I thought that when the rumours appeared earlier this week and no footage appeared to contradict it. Nothing has changed that opinion.
    If he has succumbed to the Covid-19 virus, then whoever is running the country in his absence daren't admit he has been ill with it. Because if the Glorious Leader should make a miraculous recovery (if only via one of his numerous body doubles), then admitting the country had the virus will result in them being executed by anti-aircraft gun...

    Tough call.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    My team per the no duplicate teams rule:

    Jaaskeleinen

    Alexander-Arnold
    Kompany
    Montero
    Maldini

    Extebberia
    Moutinho
    Keane
    Pires

    Messi

    Lewandowski

    Jaaskelainen ahead of Big Nev?
    Give over.
    I’d like to say I’m too young to have seen Southall, but I saw him play against Sheffield Wednesday in April 95.

    I like to be different so it was either Juusi or that Colombian who did the scorpion kick.

    EDIT: I could have Jan Oblak, he’s quite good.
    Going back a very long way Lev Yashin. Rated the very best by the majority who saw him
    Only excludes Spartan and USSR.
    But Jennings is better than Yashin and Greaves is better than Eusebio.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Income tax rises would only further dampen the economy; taxing wealth is surely the way to go. Plus a windfall tax on on-line companies.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited April 2020
    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there near the top of the death count by the end of the year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Andrew said:

    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there at the top of the death count by the end of the year.

    I doubt it, average life expectancy in Brazil is mid 70s, it is countries like Spain and Italy and Belgium with life expectancy over 80 who are top of the deaths per head chart.

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    If Korea is in the news, I can make one of my very rare TV show recommendations. The Korean version of the Good Doctor, available on Netflix, is utterly charming. Totally ridiculous and a lot of fun. Much better balanced than the US version, once you accept the fairytale nature of the programme.

    I liked the good Doctor - does the Korean version go by the same title?
    Yes. The Korean was the original.
    Thanks
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Andrew said:

    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there near the top of the death count by the end of the year.

    Seems like they have a perfect combination of Brazilian trump in charge, highly religious, areas of extremely high population density and widespread poverty.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    Floater said:

    If Korea is in the news, I can make one of my very rare TV show recommendations. The Korean version of the Good Doctor, available on Netflix, is utterly charming. Totally ridiculous and a lot of fun. Much better balanced than the US version, once you accept the fairytale nature of the programme.

    I liked the good Doctor - does the Korean version go by the same title?
    Yes. The Korean was the original.
    Which is the Freddie Highmoor version?
    The US one. He is very good in the lead role.
    He is indeed. That one seems to have quite a bit of S. Korean involvement in the credits, hence my question. Will look out for the other version once I have finished with Babylon Berlin. Don't watch much TV normally so I've got quite a range of good material to have a look at whilst we're incarcerated!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
    Methinks I see a Black Wednesday style humiliation on the horizon.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    Andrew said:

    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there near the top of the death count by the end of the year.

    In numbers probably, by rate it will take some going to beat Ecuador. I suspect that in the long run the hardest hit countries will be the poorest in Africa, assuming anyone even bothers to count.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Labour bounces back to 1% above the 32% it got at the last general election
    It actually matches the 33% Labour polled in GB last December. Opinium uses GB - not UK - data.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    glw said:

    Andrew said:

    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there near the top of the death count by the end of the year.

    In numbers probably, by rate it will take some going to beat Ecuador. I suspect that in the long run the hardest hit countries will be the poorest in Africa, assuming anyone even bothers to count.
    Not at all, the death rate in Nigeria is just 0.6 per million compared to a
    Global average of 26 per million as life expectancy in Nigeria is only mid 50s and it has very few over 80s

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Andrew said:

    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there near the top of the death count by the end of the year.

    In numbers probably, by rate it will take some going to beat Ecuador. I suspect that in the long run the hardest hit countries will be the poorest in Africa, assuming anyone even bothers to count.
    Not at all, the death rate in Nigeria is just 0.6 per million compared to a
    Global average of 26 per million as life expectancy in Nigeria is only mid 50s and it has very few over 80s

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    There are more over 70s in Brazil than in Italy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
    Methinks I see a Black Wednesday style humiliation on the horizon.
    Far from it, thankfully we are not only now out of the ERM but we never joined the Euro either
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    There are more over 70s in Brazil than in Italy.
    Percentage wise there are far fewer over 70s in Brazil than in Italy
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
    So 10 years ago the Tories were telling us we had to cut public services to get the deficit down and now they're saying the deficit doesn't matter?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
    Methinks I see a Black Wednesday style humiliation on the horizon.
    Far from it, thankfully we are not only now out of the ERM but we never joined the Euro either
    And that makes us immune from the financial markets?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    Yes, that much is obvious. Brazil and Nigeria are in earlier phases of the curve. That is all.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    Yes, that much is obvious. Brazil and Nigeria are in earlier phases of the curve. That is all.

    Nope, neither will even be in the top 5 nations on deaths per head, Nigeria will almost certainly not even be in the top 10.

    As I have said time and time again Covid is a rich countries disease, developing nations with few over 80s have a relatively low death rate from it
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Andrew said:

    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there near the top of the death count by the end of the year.

    In numbers probably, by rate it will take some going to beat Ecuador. I suspect that in the long run the hardest hit countries will be the poorest in Africa, assuming anyone even bothers to count.
    Not at all, the death rate in Nigeria is just 0.6 per million compared to a
    Global average of 26 per million as life expectancy in Nigeria is only mid 50s and it has very few over 80s

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Some of the data on that site is laughable. Officially there are 576 deaths in Ecuador, but there was an article a few days ago about there being 5,700 excess deaths in one province of 3 million or so people in a fortnight, probably the worst death rate in the world until we find out what happened in Iran. The New York Times looking at reports thinks the real figure for Ecuador should be about 15 times higher than the official figures.

    The poorest places in the world will fail to accurately count the deaths COVID-19 causes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
    Methinks I see a Black Wednesday style humiliation on the horizon.
    Far from it, thankfully we are not only now out of the ERM but we never joined the Euro either
    And that makes us immune from the financial markets?
    With tax cuts keeping the economy growing and fantastic new trade deals outside the EU nothing to fear, deficits will be the order of the day globally anyway for years with a few exceptions like maybe Germany
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
    So 10 years ago the Tories were telling us we had to cut public services to get the deficit down and now they're saying the deficit doesn't matter?
    When Cameron and Osborne lost the 2016 referendum austerity went with them, May's disastrous 2017 campaign with the 'no magic money tree' formula leading to her replacement by the populist Boris just put the final nails in its coffin
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Boris back to work on Monday... that might change the narrative
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    glw said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Andrew said:

    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there near the top of the death count by the end of the year.

    In numbers probably, by rate it will take some going to beat Ecuador. I suspect that in the long run the hardest hit countries will be the poorest in Africa, assuming anyone even bothers to count.
    Not at all, the death rate in Nigeria is just 0.6 per million compared to a
    Global average of 26 per million as life expectancy in Nigeria is only mid 50s and it has very few over 80s

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Some of the data on that site is laughable. Officially there are 576 deaths in Ecuador, but there was an article a few days ago about there being 5,700 excess deaths in one province of 3 million or so people in a fortnight, probably the worst death rate in the world until we find out what happened in Iran. The New York Times looking at reports thinks the real figure for Ecuador should be about 15 times higher than the official figures.

    The poorest places in the world will fail to accurately count the deaths COVID-19 causes.
    Every piece of data on Covid shows over 80s have by far the highest death rate and that is absolute and not related to life expectancy in each country.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    Yes, that much is obvious. Brazil and Nigeria are in earlier phases of the curve. That is all.

    Nope, neither will even be in the top 5 nations on deaths per head, Nigeria will almost certainly not even be in the top 10.

    As I have said time and time again Covid is a rich countries disease, developing nations with few over 80s have a relatively low death rate from it
    Seems to me to be a disease that also disproportionately affects countries with mature attitudes towards data gathering and transparency.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    Yes, that much is obvious. Brazil and Nigeria are in earlier phases of the curve. That is all.

    Nope, neither will even be in the top 5 nations on deaths per head, Nigeria will almost certainly not even be in the top 10.

    As I have said time and time again Covid is a rich countries disease, developing nations with few over 80s have a relatively low death rate from it
    Its relatively low in developed countries because 40-60 year olds can get access to oxygen / CPAP masks which seems quite effective and stand some chance on a ventilator.

    In much of the developing world, if you are in that not insignificant bracket that gets it bad, you aren't going to be getting any of the above.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    There are more over 70s in Brazil than in Italy.
    Percentage wise there are far fewer over 70s in Brazil than in Italy
    OK older population is going to be one factor, maybe even the biggest factor in many cases, but current differences in death rates are certainly not "almost entirely" dependent on how many over 70s and over 80s there are in each country. Even a brief glance at the figures will tell you that.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    Yes, that much is obvious. Brazil and Nigeria are in earlier phases of the curve. That is all.

    Nope, neither will even be in the top 5 nations on deaths per head, Nigeria will almost certainly not even be in the top 10.

    As I have said time and time again Covid is a rich countries disease, developing nations with few over 80s have a relatively low death rate from it
    But why have you said it "time and time again" with this plonking overcertainty, in the very early stage of the disease? It might be right, of course, but we just can't tell. One point which seems to have escaped you is that longevity correlates with first world status correlates with the ability to produce reliable data, whereas with somewhere like Nigeria or India we will probably never know what the death count was even to the right order of magnitude. So even if the figures "prove" you right, you won't necessarily be right. On top of that there is the very real possibility that a lower CV headcount will still lead to greater loss of life from the collapse of what very little there is in the way of an economy and a healthcare system in these countries. No one should be as certain about anything, as you are about everything.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
    Methinks I see a Black Wednesday style humiliation on the horizon.
    Far from it, thankfully we are not only now out of the ERM but we never joined the Euro either
    And that makes us immune from the financial markets?
    With tax cuts keeping the economy growing and fantastic new trade deals outside the EU nothing to fear, deficits will be the order of the day globally anyway for years with a few exceptions like maybe Germany
    "...fantastic new trade deals outside the EU..."

    You are truly living in cloud cuckoo land!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Yes - but in reverse order. This time the broadest shoulders WILL have to bear the load. There's no way it can be otherwise. Not again.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    Andrew said:

    More ugly numbers from Brazil today. Have the feeling they'll be up there near the top of the death count by the end of the year.

    In numbers probably, by rate it will take some going to beat Ecuador. I suspect that in the long run the hardest hit countries will be the poorest in Africa, assuming anyone even bothers to count.
    Not at all, the death rate in Nigeria is just 0.6 per million compared to a
    Global average of 26 per million as life expectancy in Nigeria is only mid 50s and it has very few over 80s

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Some of the data on that site is laughable. Officially there are 576 deaths in Ecuador, but there was an article a few days ago about there being 5,700 excess deaths in one province of 3 million or so people in a fortnight, probably the worst death rate in the world until we find out what happened in Iran. The New York Times looking at reports thinks the real figure for Ecuador should be about 15 times higher than the official figures.

    The poorest places in the world will fail to accurately count the deaths COVID-19 causes.
    Every piece of data on Covid shows over 80s have by far the highest death rate and that is absolute and not related to life expectancy in each country.
    Because countries with higher life expectancies also have better data gathering. You are probably misinterpreting an artefact as an actual thing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As the Tories also will keep taxes low.

    Isn't the tax burden already the highest it's been since the Seventies? Or something like that, anyway?

    Regardless, it's only going upwards from here. Someone has to pay to clean up this mess, and the state can't keep borrowing forever. At some point the gilt market is going to start expecting a better yield in exchange for the risk of being repaid in a debased currency, and then what do we do?

    Most likely, stick up income tax until working age people can't take anymore and then, when there's absolutely nowhere else left to go, scrap the pension triple lock and execute a major raid on property wealth. All that money has to come from somewhere.
    Boris ain't doing that, there will be no tax rises under Boris of any significance.

    Boris is firmly a believer in the Dick Cheney mantra that 'deficits don't matter' and will borrow and borrow and borrow again rather than put up tax or cut spending.

    'Cake for all' Berlusconi style is the Boris philosophy
    So 10 years ago the Tories were telling us we had to cut public services to get the deficit down and now they're saying the deficit doesn't matter?
    That transformation had occurred prior to coronavirus. Albeit, in fairness, after it had been significantly reduced.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    Yes, that much is obvious. Brazil and Nigeria are in earlier phases of the curve. That is all.

    Nope, neither will even be in the top 5 nations on deaths per head, Nigeria will almost certainly not even be in the top 10.

    As I have said time and time again Covid is a rich countries disease, developing nations with few over 80s have a relatively low death rate from it
    Life expectancy is a function largely of infant mortality. It is facile to compare it with life expectancy as an adult.

    Nigeria has lots of older people, and is the most populous country in sub saharan Africa by quite some margin. Brazil has transformed in terms of population structure in a couple of generations in a way that took two centuries in Europe.

    In absolute numbers both will have formidable mortality.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Brazil should already have more deaths than any Western European nation as it has a bigger population but it has not

    It's not as if someone took the virus to every country and fired a starting pistol before releasing it. You can't make comparisons when the epidemic is at different stages in different places.
    You most certainly can, the death rate from Covid depends almost entirely on how many over 70s and particularly over 80s there are in that country, no other factor comes close

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8229497/Countries-older-populations-likely-hit-hardest-coronavirus.html
    Yes, that much is obvious. Brazil and Nigeria are in earlier phases of the curve. That is all.

    Nope, neither will even be in the top 5 nations on deaths per head, Nigeria will almost certainly not even be in the top 10.

    As I have said time and time again Covid is a rich countries disease, developing nations with few over 80s have a relatively low death rate from it
    But why have you said it "time and time again" with this plonking overcertainty
    Would you ask a fish not to swim?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/23/coronavirus-covid-19-using-data-to-track-the-virus/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    That’s partly because many elderly patients never get hospitalised.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Bloody hell that mail story os huge news. Worlds first accurate home antibody testing kit, 50 million ordered.

    Oh wait...hold on...its been developed by that 2nd rate institution...they will probably be crap then ;-)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    stodge said:


    I think the triple lock will go within the next year but ministers won't be able to do that AND keep a full lockdown on the oldies.

    Yes and for the first time in many years the Conservatives will know what it is like to be unpopular and will have to deal with that. Will ending triple lock be the equivalent of Lamont's VAT on fuel - Sunak wouldn't be so stupid?
    Difficult decisions will have to be made. Some very painful. Keeping the Triple Lock or imposing a pay freeze on nurses??
    Nurses will need above inflation pay rises - so it's either triple lock or printing money.
    Why will they need above inflation pay rises. Money will be needed for unemployment benefit , nurses and other public service jobs will be the gold standard without pay rises. No zero hours contracts for them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Nigelb said:

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    That’s partly because many elderly patients never get hospitalised.
    That might be, but the point is all the medic report just how many younger people they get in and that it is wrong to categorise this as simply an oldies disease. The difference is 80 year olds and ventaliators aren't really a goer, 40 year olds stand some chance.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Nigelb said:

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    That’s partly because many elderly patients never get hospitalised.
    The middle aged didnt go to hospital just for fun you know....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Subtle pro-China propaganda from the BBC.

    https://twitter.com/Maxwellsnp/status/1253777198923866119

    More like unsubtle anti-Scottish propaganda as per usual.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    malcolmg said:

    Subtle pro-China propaganda from the BBC.

    https://twitter.com/Maxwellsnp/status/1253777198923866119

    More like unsubtle anti-Scottish propaganda as per usual.
    Could be both!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    That's great news. Genuinely brilliant.
    A reliable antibody test must mean a vaccine is closer perhaps too...

    Once this thing goes away the twenties are going to be roaring.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Nigelb said:

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    That’s partly because many elderly patients never get hospitalised.
    Yes, but also the decline in the middle aged is both more slow and more reversible with supportive measures. Even with aggressive hospital treatment survival of the older age groups is grim.

    I know a couple of 20 something HCWs who look to have survived, but can barely walk 100 yards without getting breathless. Those who get it badly may survive at young ages, but that does not make it a minor illness.

    It is quite inexplicably idiosyncratic in its severity. Like some random dice thrown by the gods.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Apparently this antibody test was possible because of mr super spreader. Looks like they managed to use him as a guinea pig.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    Oh it's not sarcasm now? Those red-hatted nutters have to switch realities again.

    Besides that, even if Trump was speaking to someone else, and there was a man sitting near Birx, it doesn't change that fact the Trump was seriously suggesting some insane nonsense.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:
    How good are average UK adults at assessing how well the government of each of those countries has coped with the pandemic?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Here are four words that explain why people want Sweden’s policy to fail

    Dan Hannan, Toby Young


    https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1254156945658912768?s=21
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Journalists and Libertarian commentators desperate for other people to have greater opportunities to catch the virus.

    Stay home and stay safe comrades.

    Bella ciao
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    If Korea is in the news, I can make one of my very rare TV show recommendations. The Korean version of the Good Doctor, available on Netflix, is utterly charming. Totally ridiculous and a lot of fun. Much better balanced than the US version, once you accept the fairytale nature of the programme.

    The recent Korean legal drama Hyenas is also very entertaining. (Netflix)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    To be replaced with a naive anti-China policy ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    The source said: 'Jonathan and the team have been working up to 20-hour days, seven days a week – literally around the clock. There is a huge determination to achieve this as quickly as is humanly possible.

    Media question will be...what were you doing the other 4hrs of the day?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    alterego said:

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    My team per the no duplicate teams rule:

    Jaaskeleinen

    Alexander-Arnold
    Kompany
    Montero
    Maldini

    Extebberia
    Moutinho
    Keane
    Pires

    Messi

    Lewandowski

    Jaaskelainen ahead of Big Nev?
    Give over.
    I’d like to say I’m too young to have seen Southall, but I saw him play against Sheffield Wednesday in April 95.

    I like to be different so it was either Juusi or that Colombian who did the scorpion kick.

    EDIT: I could have Jan Oblak, he’s quite good.
    Going back a very long way Lev Yashin. Rated the very best by the majority who saw him
    Only excludes Spartan and USSR.
    But Jennings is better than Yashin and Greaves is better than Eusebio.
    LOL
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    isam said:

    Here are four words that explain why people want Sweden’s policy to fail

    Dan Hannan, Toby Young


    https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1254156945658912768?s=21

    +1
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Subtle pro-China propaganda from the BBC.

    https://twitter.com/Maxwellsnp/status/1253777198923866119

    More like unsubtle anti-Scottish propaganda as per usual.
    Could be both!
    True
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Subtle pro-China propaganda from the BBC.

    https://twitter.com/Maxwellsnp/status/1253777198923866119

    Bit unfortunate if we bought them and China didn’t send them, though....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    I hope Big Dom wasn't anywhere near the planning meetings for this antibody testing consortium (it was brought together by #10 apparently)...certain sections of the media will have a total and utter meltdown.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:
    How good are average UK adults at assessing how well the government of each of those countries has coped with the pandemic?
    Probably not very well, but also probably not well at assessing how well this government is coping. But in terms of measuring general perceptions it is not that surprising - Germany has widely been reported to be doing better, and their numbers look better, and ours generally look comparable to other big european nations, so naturally the default would be we are doing similarly well or badly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Nigelb said:

    If Korea is in the news, I can make one of my very rare TV show recommendations. The Korean version of the Good Doctor, available on Netflix, is utterly charming. Totally ridiculous and a lot of fun. Much better balanced than the US version, once you accept the fairytale nature of the programme.

    The recent Korean legal drama Hyenas is also very entertaining. (Netflix)
    I watched Train to Busan the other night. An exceptionally good zombie film, with a pacy story and engaging characterisation.

    South Korea really is a country whose time has come. I hope North Korea can reunify peacefully with it when the despicable regime collapses.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    isam said:

    Here are four words that explain why people want Sweden’s policy to fail

    Dan Hannan, Toby Young


    https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1254156945658912768?s=21

    Hannan says this:

    "How did “flattening the curve” morph into “avoiding a second peak”? "

    That is a bloody good question.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    That’s partly because many elderly patients never get hospitalised.
    Yes, but also the decline in the middle aged is both more slow and more reversible with supportive measures. Even with aggressive hospital treatment survival of the older age groups is grim.

    I know a couple of 20 something HCWs who look to have survived, but can barely walk 100 yards without getting breathless. Those who get it badly may survive at young ages, but that does not make it a minor illness.

    It is quite inexplicably idiosyncratic in its severity. Like some random dice thrown by the gods.
    Do you think HCWs have a poorer prognosis than other similiar members of the public due to the increased potential risk of getting a whoppingly huge initial dose of the virus compared to someone who say acquires it through touch infection ?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    Sweden breaks down diagnosis age groups on their arcgis page

    https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

    As you. Say it is 50-59 who is the largest group of covid positive. However 50-59 barely even tickles the scorers when it comes to deaths.

    The interesting/weird thing to me is the female/male split for diagnosis, intensive care and deaths

    9940/8237 female/male diagnose
    333/947 female/male in intensive care
    956/1236 female/male dead
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Socky said:

    HYUFD said:

    It will as it would be political suicide for either Starmer or Boris to increase IHT as election 2017 showed so neither will.

    IHT doesn't even raise that much cash: [OBR] expect IHT to raise £5.3 billion in 2019-20. That would represent 0.7 per cent of all receipts and is equivalent to 0.2 per cent of national income.
    HYUFD said:

    Austerity is dead.

    The issue is where would you cut?

    NHS = hardly. Welfare demands will surely increase. Defence? Who built the nightingales?

    My pick? HS2. I cannot see how these nice to haves are doable.
    Given the economy is flat on its back, programmes like HS2 make considerable sense
    Cutting spending in the face of a depression is Hoover economics.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2020
    My hunch is that Sweden will be proved right and everywhere else proved wrong, but we'll see.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,241
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:
    How good are average UK adults at assessing how well the government of each of those countries has coped with the pandemic?
    If you look at the raw national death figures to date, they map onto these pretty well. Germany has definitely done better, the UK government stats showed similar death rates to France for a while (until it was acknowledged that they were handling the hospital / non-hospital distinction differently), the figures for Italy and Spain are known to be grim and everyone knows that the USA is the USA.

    What gets missed is that countries are at different stages in their outbreaks and it's really not easy to do comparisons until the outbreaks are over everywhere. If you take the graphs at https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest (other analyses are available), the UK outbreak started about 2 weeks after Italy's and a week after France and Spain. That makes like-for-like in real time hard to do well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    That’s partly because many elderly patients never get hospitalised.
    Yes, but also the decline in the middle aged is both more slow and more reversible with supportive measures. Even with aggressive hospital treatment survival of the older age groups is grim.

    I know a couple of 20 something HCWs who look to have survived, but can barely walk 100 yards without getting breathless. Those who get it badly may survive at young ages, but that does not make it a minor illness.

    It is quite inexplicably idiosyncratic in its severity. Like some random dice thrown by the gods.
    Do you think HCWs have a poorer prognosis than other similiar members of the public due to the increased potential risk of getting a whoppingly huge initial dose of the virus compared to someone who say acquires it through touch infection ?
    I am not convinced that viral dose matters. All the badly affected HCW that I know were on non covid wards. I think it simply that they are more likely to catch it than their peers, and some get it badly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Alistair said:

    Has anybody got the stats for hospitalisation numbers for 40-60 year olds. It is not insignificant and it is something all the medics interviewed state, we were expecting a rush of oldies, what we got was a hell of a lot of middle aged folk.

    Sweden breaks down diagnosis age groups on their arcgis page

    https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

    As you. Say it is 50-59 who is the largest group of covid positive. However 50-59 barely even tickles the scorers when it comes to deaths.

    The interesting/weird thing to me is the female/male split for diagnosis, intensive care and deaths

    9940/8237 female/male diagnose
    333/947 female/male in intensive care
    956/1236 female/male dead
    The earliest reports from China had women and men catching it equally, but significantly worse outcomes in men.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    Andy_JS said:

    My hunch is that Sweden will be proved right and everywhere else proved wrong, but we'll see.

    If so, and notwithstanding questions that would still need be asked of our own governmental response to do otherwise, I hope that the decision is seen in the context of what near everyone else was doing. But I do not think it will.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    Nigelb said:

    Socky said:

    HYUFD said:

    It will as it would be political suicide for either Starmer or Boris to increase IHT as election 2017 showed so neither will.

    IHT doesn't even raise that much cash: [OBR] expect IHT to raise £5.3 billion in 2019-20. That would represent 0.7 per cent of all receipts and is equivalent to 0.2 per cent of national income.
    HYUFD said:

    Austerity is dead.

    The issue is where would you cut?

    NHS = hardly. Welfare demands will surely increase. Defence? Who built the nightingales?

    My pick? HS2. I cannot see how these nice to haves are doable.
    Given the economy is flat on its back, programmes like HS2 make considerable sense
    Cutting spending in the face of a depression is Hoover economics.
    Haven't they evolved to Dyson economics yet?
This discussion has been closed.