Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
Dont the chinese authorities make a big deal of the greatness and long history of Chinese culture and civilisation? I think a sweeping statement like yours is very unlikely to be correct.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
This stuff is great - but the risk is he just becomes more and more embedded as a kind of incredibly amusing popular culture icon. You know, a Guilty Pleasure.
I would rather he was not covered by the media and ignored by everyone else.
In fact, new approach from yours truly. No further comments on Donald Trump except for my periodic reminder - to assist with people's betting - that he will lose in November and it will not be close.
That's exactly how he works.
He's a living, breathing £350m bus - day-in, day-out - with a global profile.
EiT - what is actually going on in Japan? There’s the fact they declared a “national emergency”. The very low levels of testing. “Reports” that hospitals are being overwhelmed with sick patients. Lack of PPE. And yet the numbers of recorded COVID deaths continue to bump along at pretty low levels.
Misreporting, or misrecording (or stricter definitions for recording)? Or a bit of both?
OK, here goes. The story is too complicated for Western media, so they're mostly writing cultural fluff and bollocks. Here goes:
Phase 1 (Feb): Cruise ship clown-shoes. Quarantine chaos, inspectors get infected and aren't tested, forget to test some of the passengers, put negative-testing people on trains home then they test again as infected. Phase 2 (Mar 1st-ish): Early action. About 100 non-cruise-ship cases, move fast with WFH restrictions and voluntary call to cancel events, pass a law allowing the declaration of a state of emergency (but don't declare it). My town sent me a pack of masks with pictures of frogs and road safety messages on them. Phase 3: (Mid-to-late March): Complacency. Phase 2 worked. Cases are flat around 50 per day. Schools to reopen. People take that as a sign the crisis is over. Unrestricted incoming travel from EU/US. Phase 4: (Late March / Early April): Cases from the Complacency phase now getting detected all over the place, especially big/international cities. Olympics cancelled, ambitious Tokyo governor immediately flips from "everything is fine" to "this is a terrible crisis and I will save you". Govt calls state of emergency, which gives some extra powers to local government, but the response is still almost entirely voluntary. In practical terms we've got a lot more working from home, some restaurants are changing to takeaway only, some shops are reducing their hours. Pachinko places are still open, the Tokyo government is trying to shame them into closing, good luck with that. The central government is sending every household two (2) washable masks, with no pictures of frogs, many of which are apparently moldy.
Here's the data showing Tokyo traffic changes, which shows you these phases with actual data (as opposed to the preferred metrics used by the NYT or BBC journalists, walking around and seeing if you can see a lot of people in the park).
[1\2]
Thanks for the analysis, insightful and different to the headlines we're getting over here.
Just looking at mobility in Sweden and there are some startling falls there - Stockholm over 40% down for transit stations and workplaces, retail 27% down, parks and residential up. There may be no lockdown in Sweden, but people are still taking steps that will be reducing infection.
So the Swedish death rate per million is what, 5, 6 times worse than their neighbours? That is going to take some explaining.....
No its not. Its 5, 6 times worse than some cherrypicked neighbours but compare to other neighbours like the Netherlands or Belgium and a different picture emerges. Sweden is physically closer to the Netherlands (not on the graph) than it is to the tiny island of Iceland (which is on the graph).
They are not cherry-picked neighbours - Sweden is a Scandinavian country and is therefore usually grouped with the other Scandinavian countries because of the similarities between them. Saying it is more logical to compare them with Belgium is grasping at straws simply because it fits your agenda better.
"Scandinavia[b] (/ˌskændɪˈneɪviə/ SKAN-dih-NAY-vee-ə) is a subregion in Northern Europe, with strong historical, cultural, and linguistic ties. The term Scandinavia in local usage covers the three kingdoms of Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. The majority national languages of these three belong to the Scandinavian dialect continuum, and are mutually intelligible North Germanic languages.[4]
In English usage, Scandinavia also sometimes refers more narrowly to the Scandinavian Peninsula, or more broadly so as to include the Åland Islands, the Faroe Islands, Finland and Iceland.[3][a]
The broader definition is similar to what are locally called the Nordic countries, which also include the remote Norwegian islands of Svalbard and Jan Mayen and Greenland, a constituent country within the Kingdom of Denmark.[5]
Even the widest definition doesn't include Estonia.
I think it's fair to compare (for Covid) Sweden to Norway, Denmark and Finland, but nothing wrong with comparing to other european countries too.
btw Sweden apparently has a higher percentage of urbanisation than France or Germany.
I would fully expect H2O2 to be an exceptionally effective antiseptic, particularly on hard surfaces etc. I wouldn't want it anywhere near my skin - you don't need a strong solution to chemically burn you. Injecting it? How. About. No.
I have no idea as to.the efficacy of Trumps idea but it shoupd not be dismissed just because it came from Trump. Its not as tho we are talking about taking gulps of concentrated bleach....
Well if you take it in small enough doses no poison will harm you but you can be sure there are fuckwits out there who will hear the words of GOB [the Great Orange Berk] and swig it down like whiskey.
He's a menace as well as an embarrassment.
There is no accounting for stupidity. They walk amongst us.
But not, perhaps, for long.
V good.
Mostly I think Trump is a loon but this idea needs investigating rather than it being dismissed it out of hand. If someone other than Trump had suggested it i feel sure the response would have been entirely different.
Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
To be frank, I think this is an accusation that the small-ell left often make against Britain. It is the trope behind the 'its all about passports' and 'you can't stop talking about the empire'. The past is simply another stick that the left use to beat the country with. And interestingly, the only successful Labour leaders recognise this - Blair was a perfect example.
I've don't see it play out in reality.
And my degree is in history....
Have you lived in another country? I have lived in Australia and in Germany, and have had many political disussions from all around the world. You quickly get to learn that Briatin is not the only country and that the way of doing things in Britain is often rooted in the past.
I Briatain there is a strong feeling of "But that's not how we do things in Britain" and "Theres no way that would work over here", and I see this attitude from the pubs up to Downing Street. To some extent, most countries do not take into consideration enough how things are done in ther countries, but in Britain this is actively ignored.
What's wrong with being rooted in the past?
The past is simply the accumulated wisdom and knowledge of everything (centuries) that have gone before.
That has a value because our own lifetimes are short and we can't learn and re-learn everything from ground zero each generation.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
That is going to send some parts of twitter into meltdown, the Jewish paper back from the dead and consortium headed by former #10 head of communications.
Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
As China planned so well to avoid Covid
Look at China's strategic approach (Belt and Road initiative, investment in Africa etc) and contrast that with UK approach (fine words plus make it up as you go along).
Which countries are in relative ascendency and which are in relative decline? And why is that?
China has a population over 10 times ours, since we gave up the British Empire obviously we are not going to be able to challenge China economically.
20 times.
I think that more accurately it was the British Empire that gave us up rather than vice versa.
Not necessarily, bar America or Ireland there were no great wars of independence like the French had in Algeria though there were terrorist groups like the Mau Mau.
If we wanted to stay a superpower we had to fight to keep the Empire, once Attlee and Labour gave up India we were never going to be more than a middle ranking, reasonably prosperous power.
Morally ending the Empire might have been right but politically and economically we were always going to be a weaker power after.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
This stuff is great - but the risk is he just becomes more and more embedded as a kind of incredibly amusing popular culture icon. You know, a Guilty Pleasure.
I would rather he was not covered by the media and ignored by everyone else.
In fact, new approach from yours truly. No further comments on Donald Trump except for my periodic reminder - to assist with people's betting - that he will lose in November and it will not be close.
That's exactly how he works.
He's a living, breathing £350m bus - day-in, day-out - with a global profile.
Oh wait, Edmund removed that line of the original post to make a point that he didn't need to make. Excellent. Well done.
In that case, I will repeat the basic truth of our situation again.
In the absence of a vaccine, the only way out is herd immunity. There are plenty of supporting strategies that mitigate the effects of that decision.
You would be more persuasive if, instead of endlessly repeating it, you made some kind of actual argument for it.
The issue is two fold here, Edmund.
1. You missed out a clear part of the post. 2. You've not even read what was written properly.
This does not make me look like the one lacking in basic debating skills, does it?
So, I will repeat the basic facts of the situation again.
In the absence of a vaccine, the only way out is herd immunity. There are plenty of supporting strategies that mitigate the effects of that decision.
and, as it is a fundamentally correct statement, I will happily continue to do so.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You would be more persuasive if you made some kind of actual argument.
You claim that nothing will work, you won't even try to justify that claim, and you don't seem to think it needs justifying. There's nothing there to argue with, and nothing there to persuade anyone.
The Americans like to promote this chocolate box version of England, it fits in with their world view. We’re part of the past. We really should not fall for it.
Americans are quite keen on their past too if you have ever visited New England, a civil war battleground or Charleston and DC.
However in terms of superpower status it is true that the UK was at its peak in the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries
And now we are kept nicely in our box.
To an extent but Australia and Israel are closer allies for the US than we are
Who care about Australia or Israel. We’re talking about England and how see ourselves. We are more than the chocolate box.
There is nothing wrong with living in a chocolate box, chocolate boxes are nice, better than a crime ridden, poverty stricken hell hole.
Since the end of the British Empire we have not been a superpower so being a chocolate box with good art, culture, heritage and some science and finance is no bad thing
From a military and economic point of view (hard power) we were an externally leveraged superpower, rather than an internally leveraged one.
The USA is an internally leveraged one because it has the resources, population and economy to be one in its own right. But, once the UK lost India and automatic loyalty of the commonwealth on its foreign and defence policy it had to fall back on its own resources, which were and are modest.
@Luckyguy1983.... I am referring back to a conversation of the morning of 23/4. I think you were (unlike you) quite rude in response to a post of mine and did not come back when I responded politely. I would like to raise it again because I was taken aback by your response. Without going into details I suggested something which you obviously seemed to think was completely idiotic to do with the devolution of small states within a larger organization when discussing Scotland and the EU.
Now I don't expect people to necessarily agree with me on stuff (would be weird), but to treat me like an idiot when I suggest something that plainly exists (whether you agree with it or not) for 1/3rd of the states in the EU (smaller or equal in population to Scotland) and which is the bedrock of the USA system of devolved government with States of significantly different sizes, is odd. In both cases they are successful economic superstates with significant devolution to their constituent bodies, even the small ones.
People may not agree with these structures and they may well be correct to disagree, but to suggest I am a complete idiot for even suggesting such a bizarre idea when clearly a billion people live in these scenarios and when these are the two most successful democratic economies on the planet is a bit insulting to put it mildly.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
Well I am even more confused now. I can understand your reply to Nigel, but what has this to do with my post?
I'm completely lost unless you are saying the evidence is it works. But that was my argument. You disagreed with me!
I planned to respond, decided to respond to his first, but my browser saved a draft of my quote - does it all the time, very annoying.
I have responded to you downthread.
Cheers. Will read the main response in a minute and that makes sense.
I thought that maybe I was writing in gibberish and only I could make sense of what I was saying. No smart arse remarks from anyone please!
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
If h2o2 was effective against a virus like influenza, why would the rise in antibiotics stop further research?
Because they were more exciting, more targeted, offered to eliminate specific diseases, and were more commercially promising?
my point is that antibiotics don't work on viruses.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
Very entertaining, but as our resident doc, I would expect you to engage with the science, rather than echoing the herd.
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
If h2o2 was effective against a virus like influenza, why would the rise in antibiotics stop further research?
Because they were more exciting, more targeted, offered to eliminate specific diseases, and were more commercially promising?
my point is that antibiotics don't work on viruses.
Antibiotics was the wrong word to use. More targeted prescription medications would have been the right one.
Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
As China planned so well to avoid Covid
Look at China's strategic approach (Belt and Road initiative, investment in Africa etc) and contrast that with UK approach (fine words plus make it up as you go along).
Which countries are in relative ascendency and which are in relative decline? And why is that?
China has a population over 10 times ours, since we gave up the British Empire obviously we are not going to be able to challenge China economically.
20 times.
I think that more accurately it was the British Empire that gave us up rather than vice versa.
Not necessarily, bar America or Ireland there were no great wars of independence like the French had in Algeria though there were terrorist groups like the Mau Mau.
If we wanted to stay a superpower we had to fight to keep the Empire, once Attlee and Labour gave up India we were never going to be more than a middle ranking, reasonably prosperous power.
Morally ending the Empire might have been right but politically and economically we were always going to be a weaker power after.
If there were no moral considerations and it was all about preserving Britain's grip on power, we would have supported the Confederacy in the American civil war, made them a British client state, that's the USA partitioned and caught between British Canada and British Confederate States. Job done.
There is never an excuse for rudeness - so for that I apologise unreservedly.
I felt strongly that at the heart of your post there was a very obvious contradiction, and I chose to put it down sarcastically to muddled thinking.
You are quite right that vast numbers live in small states within the EU, and we see the outworkings of that in the sad situation of Greece. To identify that as a desirable future and in the same breath speak of 'maximum devolution' or whatever the phrase you used was, I felt stretched credibility beyond breaking point.
What I now realise more fully, is that you didn't actually mean 'maximum devolution' in the sense of maximum autonomy being returned to your units of statehood, but of the EU being the sovereign state, with a comparatively 'generous' degree of devolution being bestowed on its component statelets. Those are very different concepts, hence the confusion.
Apology accepted and to be honest you weren't that rude, but it was the unexpected nature of it coming from you that took me by surprise. Others have been far ruder and I have not complained because I expect it. So a bit unfair of me in hindsight. In fact it was probably vanity on my part - I didn't want you thinking I was an idiot whereas I don't mind some others thinking that.
Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
As China planned so well to avoid Covid
Look at China's strategic approach (Belt and Road initiative, investment in Africa etc) and contrast that with UK approach (fine words plus make it up as you go along).
Which countries are in relative ascendency and which are in relative decline? And why is that?
China has a population over 10 times ours, since we gave up the British Empire obviously we are not going to be able to challenge China economically.
20 times.
I think that more accurately it was the British Empire that gave us up rather than vice versa.
Not necessarily, bar America or Ireland there were no great wars of independence like the French had in Algeria though there were terrorist groups like the Mau Mau.
If we wanted to stay a superpower we had to fight to keep the Empire, once Attlee and Labour gave up India we were never going to be more than a middle ranking, reasonably prosperous power.
Morally ending the Empire might have been right but politically and economically we were always going to be a weaker power after.
Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
As China planned so well to avoid Covid
Look at China's strategic approach (Belt and Road initiative, investment in Africa etc) and contrast that with UK approach (fine words plus make it up as you go along).
Which countries are in relative ascendency and which are in relative decline? And why is that?
China has a population over 10 times ours, since we gave up the British Empire obviously we are not going to be able to challenge China economically.
20 times.
I think that more accurately it was the British Empire that gave us up rather than vice versa.
Not necessarily, bar America or Ireland there were no great wars of independence like the French had in Algeria though there were terrorist groups like the Mau Mau.
If we wanted to stay a superpower we had to fight to keep the Empire, once Attlee and Labour gave up India we were never going to be more than a middle ranking, reasonably prosperous power.
Morally ending the Empire might have been right but politically and economically we were always going to be a weaker power after.
The biggest failure was not understanding that, in the 20th cent, you don't need to own the countries with resources. It is arguably cheaper to purchase the resources via international trade. See Japan and Germany...
There is, rather obviously, a third way that this ends. The virus mutates to something less fatal (and, hopefully at the same time, more transmissible - happy to show my workings!).
So three ways out. Everything else - absolutely everything else - is a delaying tactic.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
If h2o2 was effective against a virus like influenza, why would the rise in antibiotics stop further research?
Because they were more exciting, more targeted, offered to eliminate specific diseases, and were more commercially promising?
my point is that antibiotics don't work on viruses.
Antibiotics was the wrong word to use. More targeted prescription medications would have been the right one.
You are right. it was the wrong word to use. As you so rudely said to someone else "leave the discussion to the grown ups", or in this case people who have some modicum of understanding about science or medical science. You clearly do not fit into any of these categories. People like you, and the Trumpian hoards of extreme right wing uneducated sheep and misfits (of which you may or may not be one) are seriously dangerous to the health of others. Stick to leaches.
On your twitter page you often post photographs of places you have been and enjoyed... they always seem to be of buildings, scenery and nature, never the people in those places. I’d say they were similar representations of those places as the US ambassadors video is of England, yet wouldn’t have thought you were representing a falsely old fashioned, nostalgic view of them, just pretty pictures of somewhere you liked
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
Would you also reject, say, a theory of gravity dating from /1917/ on the grounds of its date? The study is partially controlled, and anyway you can actually do science without controlled and blinded experiments and discover, say, vaccination and penicillin.
Say you have picked some weird looking mushrooms and you feed,one to the dog, which froths at the mouth and dies in convulsions. Do you exercise caution over the remaining mushrooms or do you say yebbut without a second dog which was fed a placebo, with the feeder being blinded as to which dog got what, this tells us absolutely nothing about the mushrooms, which I shall now eat?
I don't set much store by the hydrogen theory, but your rejection of it is the,pseudoscience.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
Does the original paper have:
1. random allocation.
2. controls, with placebo of distilled water, maybe also testing another drug.
3. blinding (ie. the treating medic doesn't know what is being injected).
If not then it is unacceptable. If Lind could use controls for his scurvy work in the 18th century ...
I would fully expect H2O2 to be an exceptionally effective antiseptic, particularly on hard surfaces etc. I wouldn't want it anywhere near my skin - you don't need a strong solution to chemically burn you. Injecting it? How. About. No.
If you apply the same principle to any other medicaments that in higher concentrations could damage or kill you, does that leave you with anything? Doesn't even leave you with aspirin.
"Mr. Trump rarely attends the task force meetings that precede the briefings, and he typically does not prepare before he steps in front of the cameras. He is often seeing the final version of the day’s main talking points that aides have prepared for him for the first time although aides said he makes tweaks with a Sharpie just before he reads them live. He hastily plows through them, usually in a monotone, in order to get to the question-and-answer bullying session with reporters that he relishes."
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
Very entertaining, but as our resident doc, I would expect you to engage with the science, rather than echoing the herd.
I guess he would rather follow or even lead the herd of those that are scientifically informed that are quite rightly sceptical about papers written in 1920 and are espoused by someone with zero scientific understanding, than join the herd that also believes in the flat earth, voodoo cures and 7 day creation. I know which herd I'd rather be in. PS. Please don't try injecting bleach. Try leaches instead. Equally useless, but less likely to kill you.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
You are writing about a subject about which you clearly know nothing & are endangering people to boot. "Oxygen therapy", oft administered in the form of intravenous Hydrogen Peroxide has been a mainstay of "alternative medicine" bullshit purveyors for decades. It has been claimed as a cure for cancer, AIDS, the flu & multiple sclerosis; all without any established medical evidence that any of these treatments worked. People have died after being injected with H2O2 by their (medically qualified even) woo practitioners.
Please just stop. A single paper in a journal published in 1920 on a non-blinded small group /is/ not evidence. It’s barely better than wishful thinking. I know you think you’re helping, but please take it from me: this is not helpful to anyone. At best it’s simply a distraction, at worst you’ll encourage people who don’t know any better to seek out treatment from charlatans which will end up killing them.
No cricket until at least 1st July. Of all sports that could manage with a testing and no crowds, cricket seems like ideal candidate.
All that spit used to polish the ball though.
I'm worried about the level of apocalypse that might be wrought to prevent my fourth attempt to take my wife to a cricket match.
Attempt number one resulted in intermittent drizzle and the cancellation of Scotland vs Sri Lanka. Attempt two saw a day of continuous heavy rain to cancel Durham vs Notts. The third time resulted in a global pandemic with an R0 of ~3 and an IFR of ~1% to force the cancellation of Scotland vs Australia.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
Does the original paper have:
1. random allocation.
2. controls, with placebo of distilled water, maybe also testing another drug.
3. blinding (ie. the treating medic doesn't know what is being injected).
If not then it is unacceptable. If Lind could use controls for his scurvy work in the 18th century ...
Under the circumstances, I think the authors did well to highlight a potentially promising treatment. It was considered worth publishing in the Lancet at the time, that tells me these doctors were genuine and not cranks.
To be fair, that guy ran towards a terrorist attack and gave mouth-to-mouth to try to save somebodies life, and although not quite a general he is a Lieutenant Colonel and not of the armchair variety.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
Does the original paper have:
1. random allocation.
2. controls, with placebo of distilled water, maybe also testing another drug.
3. blinding (ie. the treating medic doesn't know what is being injected).
If not then it is unacceptable. If Lind could use controls for his scurvy work in the 18th century ...
Don't be silly, we know for certain there were no controls in the processes which led to vaccination and penicillin being discovered, and even controlled experiments arise out of uncontrolled observations like the one in the 1920 paper (because how else do you decide,what to do experiments about?) We have vi ag ra if you can write that word without being modded) purely because of a couple of anecdotes on the lines of "can't say it does much for the angina, doc, but..." If that was a good enough basis for further controlled experiments why would the observations in the 1920 paper not be?
Wouldnt it be just such fun if all the naysayers on here were proved wrong and Trump was right.....
not for me it wouldn't. Trump is a malign shit that the world desperately needs to be defeated in November. Trump is going to keep touting miracle cures hoping that people condemn him and sooner or later there's something in one of them - the best thing is just to ignore him, don't fall into the trap
No cricket until at least 1st July. Of all sports that could manage with a testing and no crowds, cricket seems like ideal candidate.
All that spit used to polish the ball though.
I'm worried about the level of apocalypse that might be wrought to prevent my fourth attempt to take my wife to a cricket match.
Attempt number one resulted in intermittent drizzle and the cancellation of Scotland vs Sri Lanka. Attempt two saw a day of continuous heavy rain to cancel Durham vs Notts. The third time resulted in a global pandemic with an R0 of ~3 and an IFR of ~1% to force the cancellation of Scotland vs Australia.
Do I book tickets for a fourth match?
You must love cricket to watch or try to watch Scotland... fair play to.you!!!! Go for i!
Kamala Harris was kind of a bubble IMHO, there was no good reason for her to be that strong a favourite. She's competent but doesn't deliver a swing state, her campaign was pretty flat, and she's not particularly popular among black voters. There's an argument that Biden may have promised Jim Clyburn that he'd pick a black woman, but if you believe that then maybe look at some of the other black candidates.
I don't really see the point in picking Warren, the Bernie Bros have an enduring grudge against her and the rest of the left should get behind Biden anyhow. Gretchen Whitmer is starting to look like value, she's coming out well in the battle against her obliging comedy-villain Trumpist protestors.
I don't think the Senate vacancy thing is an issue - CA would elect a donkey with a blue badge, MA should also be safe despite that special election with the "this is my truck" dude which was a bit of a freak result, and either MI is a safe enough Dem state not to worry or it's a serious swing state, and if it's a serious swing state then Biden needs KLOBUCHAR on the ticket to make sure he holds it.
The swing state argument is overblown. Did Obama really need Joe Biden to win in Delaware that had previously voted for Gore and Kerry? Did GHW Bush need Dan Quayle to win Idaho? GW Bush need Dick Cheney for Montana? McCain and Sarah Palin for Alaska? Regardless of whether presidential candidates should pick running mates from swing states, is there any evidence they actually do?
To be fair, that guy ran towards a terrorist attack and gave mouth-to-mouth to try to save somebodies life, and although not quite a general he is a Lieutenant Colonel and not of the armchair variety.
On that basis he can speak with some authority on matters military, on working in care homes, not so much.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
You are writing about a subject about which you clearly know nothing & are endangering people to boot. "Oxygen therapy", oft administered in the form of intravenous Hydrogen Peroxide has been a mainstay of "alternative medicine" bullshit purveyors for decades. It has been claimed as a cure for cancer, AIDS, the flu & multiple sclerosis; all without any established medical evidence that any of these treatments worked. People have died after being injected with H2O2 by their (medically qualified even) woo practitioners.
Please just stop. A single paper in a journal published in 1920 on a non-blinded small group /is/ not evidence. It’s barely better than wishful thinking. I know you think you’re helping, but please take it from me: this is not helpful to anyone. At best it’s simply a distraction, at worst you’ll encourage people who don’t know any better to seek out treatment from charlatans which will end up killing them.
Thanks, but whilst obviously endeavouring not be be defamatory, obscene, or post legally actionable content, I'll continue to discuss topics I find interesting. Now run along.
Trump' s Alan Partridge impression has sent the commentariat into such a state, if he does win in November they are going to struggle to find a vocabulary to describe such an event.
Trump' s Alan Partridge impression has sent the commentariat into such a state, if he does win in November they are going to struggle to find a vocabulary to describe such an event.
The doctor leading Japan’s response to coronavirus has defended the decision not to implement a national lockdown, saying that elimination of the virus was impossible and it was necessary to limit the damage to the economy.
Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
As China planned so well to avoid Covid
Look at China's strategic approach (Belt and Road initiative, investment in Africa etc) and contrast that with UK approach (fine words plus make it up as you go along).
Which countries are in relative ascendency and which are in relative decline? And why is that?
China has a population over 10 times ours, since we gave up the British Empire obviously we are not going to be able to challenge China economically.
20 times.
I think that more accurately it was the British Empire that gave us up rather than vice versa.
Not necessarily, bar America or Ireland there were no great wars of independence like the French had in Algeria though there were terrorist groups like the Mau Mau.
If we wanted to stay a superpower we had to fight to keep the Empire, once Attlee and Labour gave up India we were never going to be more than a middle ranking, reasonably prosperous power.
Morally ending the Empire might have been right but politically and economically we were always going to be a weaker power after.
The biggest failure was not understanding that, in the 20th cent, you don't need to own the countries with resources. It is arguably cheaper to purchase the resources via international trade. See Japan and Germany...
Owning the resources might come back into fashion in the 21st century..
Kamala Harris was kind of a bubble IMHO, there was no good reason for her to be that strong a favourite. She's competent but doesn't deliver a swing state, her campaign was pretty flat, and she's not particularly popular among black voters. There's an argument that Biden may have promised Jim Clyburn that he'd pick a black woman, but if you believe that then maybe look at some of the other black candidates.
I don't really see the point in picking Warren, the Bernie Bros have an enduring grudge against her and the rest of the left should get behind Biden anyhow. Gretchen Whitmer is starting to look like value, she's coming out well in the battle against her obliging comedy-villain Trumpist protestors.
I don't think the Senate vacancy thing is an issue - CA would elect a donkey with a blue badge, MA should also be safe despite that special election with the "this is my truck" dude which was a bit of a freak result, and either MI is a safe enough Dem state not to worry or it's a serious swing state, and if it's a serious swing state then Biden needs KLOBUCHAR on the ticket to make sure he holds it.
The swing state argument is overblown. Did Obama really need Joe Biden to win in Delaware that had previously voted for Gore and Kerry? Did GHW Bush need Dan Quayle to win Idaho? GW Bush need Dick Cheney for Montana? McCain and Sarah Palin for Alaska? Regardless of whether presidential candidates should pick running mates from swing states, is there any evidence they actually do?
No cricket until at least 1st July. Of all sports that could manage with a testing and no crowds, cricket seems like ideal candidate.
The lack of live sport is by far what I have found hardest about the lockdown. Cricket especially but football too.
The financial pressures on sport will give a good shove to easing the lockdown sooner.
I don't think I am alone. Getting sport started, even behind closed doors, would lift the mood more than anything else (and for county Championship Cricket it might be hard to tell the difference anyway).
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
You are writing about a subject about which you clearly know nothing & are endangering people to boot. "Oxygen therapy", oft administered in the form of intravenous Hydrogen Peroxide has been a mainstay of "alternative medicine" bullshit purveyors for decades. It has been claimed as a cure for cancer, AIDS, the flu & multiple sclerosis; all without any established medical evidence that any of these treatments worked. People have died after being injected with H2O2 by their (medically qualified even) woo practitioners.
Please just stop. A single paper in a journal published in 1920 on a non-blinded small group /is/ not evidence. It’s barely better than wishful thinking. I know you think you’re helping, but please take it from me: this is not helpful to anyone. At best it’s simply a distraction, at worst you’ll encourage people who don’t know any better to seek out treatment from charlatans which will end up killing them.
Thanks, but whilst obviously endeavouring not be be defamatory, obscene, or post legally actionable content, I'll continue to discuss topics I find interesting. Now run along.
While the rest of us continue to laugh at the ridiculous drivel you come out with. So long as nobody is daft enough to take your suggestions seriously, I am happy to see you providing some light-hearted entertainment on the forum.
Trump' s Alan Partridge impression has sent the commentariat into such a state, if he does win in November they are going to struggle to find a vocabulary to describe such an event.
And yet the Dems have almost gone out of the way to say to the public “go on, we dare you.”
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
You are writing about a subject about which you clearly know nothing & are endangering people to boot. "Oxygen therapy", oft administered in the form of intravenous Hydrogen Peroxide has been a mainstay of "alternative medicine" bullshit purveyors for decades. It has been claimed as a cure for cancer, AIDS, the flu & multiple sclerosis; all without any established medical evidence that any of these treatments worked. People have died after being injected with H2O2 by their (medically qualified even) woo practitioners.
Please just stop. A single paper in a journal published in 1920 on a non-blinded small group /is/ not evidence. It’s barely better than wishful thinking. I know you think you’re helping, but please take it from me: this is not helpful to anyone. At best it’s simply a distraction, at worst you’ll encourage people who don’t know any better to seek out treatment from charlatans which will end up killing them.
It is evidence. You have picked up the idea of blinded, controlled experiments and you are like a man with a new hammer who wants everything in the world to be a nail.
Take (or rather, don't) aconite. The ancient Greeks thought it was deadly poisonous, and it is. They learned this presumably on the basis of evidence (someone ate it and died) which we will have to say was anecdotal evidence, because they didn't do controlled experiments. Do you think their knowledge was useless and they should have cracked on with eating aconite, because there was no proper e vidence as to its properties?
I assume the peroxide enthusiasts are only asking for further experimnents (controlled, this time) and I can't for the life of me see what is wrong with that.
Kamala Harris was kind of a bubble IMHO, there was no good reason for her to be that strong a favourite. She's competent but doesn't deliver a swing state, her campaign was pretty flat, and she's not particularly popular among black voters. There's an argument that Biden may have promised Jim Clyburn that he'd pick a black woman, but if you believe that then maybe look at some of the other black candidates.
I don't really see the point in picking Warren, the Bernie Bros have an enduring grudge against her and the rest of the left should get behind Biden anyhow. Gretchen Whitmer is starting to look like value, she's coming out well in the battle against her obliging comedy-villain Trumpist protestors.
I don't think the Senate vacancy thing is an issue - CA would elect a donkey with a blue badge, MA should also be safe despite that special election with the "this is my truck" dude which was a bit of a freak result, and either MI is a safe enough Dem state not to worry or it's a serious swing state, and if it's a serious swing state then Biden needs KLOBUCHAR on the ticket to make sure he holds it.
The swing state argument is overblown. Did Obama really need Joe Biden to win in Delaware that had previously voted for Gore and Kerry? Did GHW Bush need Dan Quayle to win Idaho? GW Bush need Dick Cheney for Montana? McCain and Sarah Palin for Alaska? Regardless of whether presidential candidates should pick running mates from swing states, is there any evidence they actually do?
Trump's methods do, in fairness, sound like they have a decent chance of killing some of the virus. I think I'll take my chances with Covid-19 rather than having bleach in my veins mind.
No cricket until at least 1st July. Of all sports that could manage with a testing and no crowds, cricket seems like ideal candidate.
No, golf's the ideal candidate for first sport back.
Unlike tennis and cricket, noone else need touch your balls. Or your cock in the case of badminton.
Yeah, but nobody wants to watch golf ;-)
No, more seriously, you are absolutely right. Players can easily stand well apart on the tee and greens at all times. Really missing the Masters, for me, it is THE MAJOR, of the year.
Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
As China planned so well to avoid Covid
Look at China's strategic approach (Belt and Road initiative, investment in Africa etc) and contrast that with UK approach (fine words plus make it up as you go along).
Which countries are in relative ascendency and which are in relative decline? And why is that?
China has a population over 10 times ours, since we gave up the British Empire obviously we are not going to be able to challenge China economically.
20 times.
I think that more accurately it was the British Empire that gave us up rather than vice versa.
Not necessarily, bar America or Ireland there were no great wars of independence like the French had in Algeria though there were terrorist groups like the Mau Mau.
If we wanted to stay a superpower we had to fight to keep the Empire, once Attlee and Labour gave up India we were never going to be more than a middle ranking, reasonably prosperous power.
Morally ending the Empire might have been right but politically and economically we were always going to be a weaker power after.
The biggest failure was not understanding that, in the 20th cent, you don't need to own the countries with resources. It is arguably cheaper to purchase the resources via international trade. See Japan and Germany...
Owning the resources might come back into fashion in the 21st century..
Stockpiling is not especially expensive. If you have PPE that has a 4 year sell by date, having a 1000 day stockpile in your supply chain is a matter of a few acres of warehouse and some people to run it.
Trump's methods do, in fairness, sound like they have a decent chance of killing some of the virus. I think I'll take my chances with Covid-19 rather than having bleach in my veins mind.
I was actually thinking about this with the vaccine. I'm 33, I won't take my chances with anything has not gone through the usual process.
No cricket until at least 1st July. Of all sports that could manage with a testing and no crowds, cricket seems like ideal candidate.
All that spit used to polish the ball though.
I'm worried about the level of apocalypse that might be wrought to prevent my fourth attempt to take my wife to a cricket match.
Attempt number one resulted in intermittent drizzle and the cancellation of Scotland vs Sri Lanka. Attempt two saw a day of continuous heavy rain to cancel Durham vs Notts. The third time resulted in a global pandemic with an R0 of ~3 and an IFR of ~1% to force the cancellation of Scotland vs Australia.
Do I book tickets for a fourth match?
You must love cricket to watch or try to watch Scotland... fair play to.you!!!! Go for i!
No cricket until at least 1st July. Of all sports that could manage with a testing and no crowds, cricket seems like ideal candidate.
All that spit used to polish the ball though.
I'm worried about the level of apocalypse that might be wrought to prevent my fourth attempt to take my wife to a cricket match.
Attempt number one resulted in intermittent drizzle and the cancellation of Scotland vs Sri Lanka. Attempt two saw a day of continuous heavy rain to cancel Durham vs Notts. The third time resulted in a global pandemic with an R0 of ~3 and an IFR of ~1% to force the cancellation of Scotland vs Australia.
Do I book tickets for a fourth match?
You must love cricket to watch or try to watch Scotland... fair play to.you!!!! Go for i!
Oi, wotchit mate. Mike Denness and Brian Hardie, two of Essex's finest, were from Scotland.
No cricket until at least 1st July. Of all sports that could manage with a testing and no crowds, cricket seems like ideal candidate.
All that spit used to polish the ball though.
I'm worried about the level of apocalypse that might be wrought to prevent my fourth attempt to take my wife to a cricket match.
Attempt number one resulted in intermittent drizzle and the cancellation of Scotland vs Sri Lanka. Attempt two saw a day of continuous heavy rain to cancel Durham vs Notts. The third time resulted in a global pandemic with an R0 of ~3 and an IFR of ~1% to force the cancellation of Scotland vs Australia.
Do I book tickets for a fourth match?
You must love cricket to watch or try to watch Scotland... fair play to.you!!!! Go for i!
No cricket until at least 1st July. Of all sports that could manage with a testing and no crowds, cricket seems like ideal candidate.
All that spit used to polish the ball though.
I'm worried about the level of apocalypse that might be wrought to prevent my fourth attempt to take my wife to a cricket match.
Attempt number one resulted in intermittent drizzle and the cancellation of Scotland vs Sri Lanka. Attempt two saw a day of continuous heavy rain to cancel Durham vs Notts. The third time resulted in a global pandemic with an R0 of ~3 and an IFR of ~1% to force the cancellation of Scotland vs Australia.
Do I book tickets for a fourth match?
You must love cricket to watch or try to watch Scotland... fair play to.you!!!! Go for i!
Oi, wotchit mate. Mike Denness and Brian Hardie, two of Essex's finest, were from Scotland.
Trump' s Alan Partridge impression has sent the commentariat into such a state, if he does win in November they are going to struggle to find a vocabulary to describe such an event.
And yet the Dems have almost gone out of the way to say to the public “go on, we dare you.”
I doubt whether any event has ever shaken up the dems like Trump's Victory.
They come back with Joe Biden? seriously? that's their guy?
Trump's methods do, in fairness, sound like they have a decent chance of killing some of the virus. I think I'll take my chances with Covid-19 rather than having bleach in my veins mind.
I was actually thinking about this with the vaccine. I'm 33, I won't take my chances with anything has not gone through the usual process.
Are you classified as a key worker out of interest ?
I'll be pretty much back of the queue for it anyway.
Its just struck me that 'Injecting disinfectant into one's veins' is actually quite an apt metaphor for my view of what lockdown is doing to our country.
I quite like Costa. I'm not going to say it's amazing, on a par with the best independents and smaller chains. But it compares well amongst its peers, and is better than the poorer indies.
There's a lot of snobbery about coffee chains, I have to say, largely from people who don't remember how hard it was to get a reasonable quality coffee before they became widespread in the UK.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
The original Oliver et al 1920 study from The Lancet is scanned here: tp://www.foodgrade-hydrogenperoxide.com/id42.html
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
It might be worth mentioning to you that medicine has advanced quite a lot since 1920 and so has peer reviewed science publication. I guess your knowledge of science is probably similar to Trump's. You are clutching at straws to defend the most inappropriate individual to hold high office in the history of western representative democracy.
Of course it has, but the research in question has never been contradicted. The rise of antibiotics meant research into hydrogen peroxide all but ceased. Which is fine, only in the current situation, with a rapidly spreading pandemic, a simpler 'all purpose' pathogen killer is actually what you need, because research into a silver bullet doesn't fit the time lines we are dealing with. Hence comments about 'injecting disinfectant', whichever mental recesses they come from, are interesting.
No it is a dumb distraction, and is stupid at so many levels. Either completely stupid (quite possible), or an attempt to appeal to the nutjobs and pseudoscience adherents that make up a large part of Trump's loyal fanbase. I hope it damages him. There are quite a few educated and intelligent people that voted for him last time because they hated Clinton. Let us hope they reconsider this time.
Yet it has been shown to work...
JFC. A single case study (not even a proper case-control study) in /1920/ does not count as "has been shown to work". You are spreading dangerous pseudo-science that can easily kill. Please just stop.
No, I am not. The study I referenced appeared in a peer-reviewed journal, and is a write up of dangerously I'll hospital patients receiving a treatment from doctors, via drip. None of this can be replicated 'at home', so cannot be considered an encouragement to self-medicate.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
You are writing about a subject about which you clearly know nothing & are endangering people to boot. "Oxygen therapy", oft administered in the form of intravenous Hydrogen Peroxide has been a mainstay of "alternative medicine" bullshit purveyors for decades. It has been claimed as a cure for cancer, AIDS, the flu & multiple sclerosis; all without any established medical evidence that any of these treatments worked. People have died after being injected with H2O2 by their (medically qualified even) woo practitioners.
Please just stop. A single paper in a journal published in 1920 on a non-blinded small group /is/ not evidence. It’s barely better than wishful thinking. I know you think you’re helping, but please take it from me: this is not helpful to anyone. At best it’s simply a distraction, at worst you’ll encourage people who don’t know any better to seek out treatment from charlatans which will end up killing them.
Thanks, but whilst obviously endeavouring not be be defamatory, obscene, or post legally actionable content, I'll continue to discuss topics I find interesting. Now run along.
While the rest of us continue to laugh at the ridiculous drivel you come out with. So long as nobody is daft enough to take your suggestions seriously, I am happy to see you providing some light-hearted entertainment on the forum.
I'm genuinely happy you find my posts of value, even if it is to laugh at.
Trump's methods do, in fairness, sound like they have a decent chance of killing some of the virus. I think I'll take my chances with Covid-19 rather than having bleach in my veins mind.
I was actually thinking about this with the vaccine. I'm 33, I won't take my chances with anything has not gone through the usual process.
Are you classified as a key worker out of interest ?
I'll be pretty much back of the queue for it anyway.
Yes, England is an old country with a lot of history and heritage. America doesn't have that. And a lot the rest of world also value that here too - it's why tourists come here in their droves and we have so much soft power and cultural influence.
Much of that does reasonate with me and is deeply moving.
Does it not for you too?
I see a lot more in England than that. But I do think nostalgia is deeply ingrained in the English psyche.
Some people live in the past (nostalgia). Some live in the present (mindfulness or simple survival). Some live in the future (planning and anticipation).
So it is with countries. UK in the past. Africa in the present. China in the future.
As China planned so well to avoid Covid
Look at China's strategic approach (Belt and Road initiative, investment in Africa etc) and contrast that with UK approach (fine words plus make it up as you go along).
Which countries are in relative ascendency and which are in relative decline? And why is that?
China has a population over 10 times ours, since we gave up the British Empire obviously we are not going to be able to challenge China economically.
20 times.
I think that more accurately it was the British Empire that gave us up rather than vice versa.
Not necessarily, bar America or Ireland there were no great wars of independence like the French had in Algeria though there were terrorist groups like the Mau Mau.
If we wanted to stay a superpower we had to fight to keep the Empire, once Attlee and Labour gave up India we were never going to be more than a middle ranking, reasonably prosperous power.
Morally ending the Empire might have been right but politically and economically we were always going to be a weaker power after.
The biggest failure was not understanding that, in the 20th cent, you don't need to own the countries with resources. It is arguably cheaper to purchase the resources via international trade. See Japan and Germany...
Perhaps but neither Japan nor Germany are superpowers like the British Empire was or like China and the USA now are
Trump's methods do, in fairness, sound like they have a decent chance of killing some of the virus. I think I'll take my chances with Covid-19 rather than having bleach in my veins mind.
I was actually thinking about this with the vaccine. I'm 33, I won't take my chances with anything has not gone through the usual process.
I understand your point but would note that YOU getting vaccinated isn't just about protecting YOU as a 33 year old. It's also about protecting your 93 year old neighbour.
'In 1888, the first medical use of H2O2 was described by Love as efficacious in treating numerous diseases, including scarlet fever, diphtheria, nasal catarrh, acute coryza, whooping cough, asthma hay fever and tonsillitis (Love, 1888). Similarly, Oliver and collaborators reported that intravenous injection of H2O2 was efficacious in treating influenza pneumonia in the epidemic following World War I (Oliver et al., 1920). Despite its beneficial effects, in the 1940s medical interest in further research on H2O2 was slowed down by the emerging development of new prescription medicines.' https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417441/
One nil to Trump?
No. Its a stupid, dangerous, dumb idea.
Is it more dangerous than letting Covid kill someone?
I'd bow down to doctors like Foxy in that one but I suspect drinking bleach is more dangerous than the risk of Covid to the average person.
You are throwing around the word 'dumb', you could at least read both my post and Trump's comments. There was no mention of 'drinking'.
They managed to go from an 80 percent death rate to a 48 percent death rate - and they were only using subjects who were considered hopeless cases.
You are really trying to defend his comments? He came across as he was either thick, drunk or suffering from dementia. We know he doesn't drink so he doesn't have the Yeltsin excuse. He comes out with some really dumb statements, but it is unlikely that he is thick. How anyone could support excuse or vote for this buffoon astounds me.
I don't know what motivated his comments, and I haven't watched them - I hate cringey moments.
However, it must be said that injecting a disinfectant, in this case hydrogen peroxide, has been written up in the Lancet and actually shown remarkable results for a similar condition!
Trumps words are best understood when this young woman lipsynchs them. Remember, this is the President:
This stuff is great - but the risk is he just becomes more and more embedded as a kind of incredibly amusing popular culture icon. You know, a Guilty Pleasure.
I would rather he was not covered by the media and ignored by everyone else.
In fact, new approach from yours truly. No further comments on Donald Trump except for my periodic reminder - to assist with people's betting - that he will lose in November and it will not be close.
That's exactly how he works.
He's a living, breathing £350m bus - day-in, day-out - with a global profile.
Exactly.
No further comment.
End of exchange.
He's the president of the US. I don't think you signal boosting him- or not- is all that relevant.
Its just struck me that 'Injecting disinfectant into one's veins' is actually quite an apt metaphor for my view of what lockdown is doing to our country.
That must have made you tremendously pleased with yourself.
The big one from that study is home outbreaks. Once you have one person in your home who gets it, very high transmission rate. Moving to a forced remote isolation in uni dorms / hotels / conference centres has to be in the plan going forward, otherwise every one case, immediately become another 2-3 straight away.
The big one from that study is home outbreaks. Once you have one person in your home who gets it, very high transmission rate. Moving to a forced remote isolation in uni dorms / hotels / conference centres has to be in the plan going forwrad.
Trump's methods do, in fairness, sound like they have a decent chance of killing some of the virus. I think I'll take my chances with Covid-19 rather than having bleach in my veins mind.
I was actually thinking about this with the vaccine. I'm 33, I won't take my chances with anything has not gone through the usual process.
I understand your point but would note that YOU getting vaccinated isn't just about protecting YOU as a 33 year old. It's also about protecting your 93 year old neighbour.
Well, yes, I'm not Novak Djokovic. But we need to make sure the cure isn't worse than the disease.
Trump's methods do, in fairness, sound like they have a decent chance of killing some of the virus. I think I'll take my chances with Covid-19 rather than having bleach in my veins mind.
I think that Trump saw that disinfectant kills the virus (meaning that you can use it on surfaces to clean them) also that sunlight might help. The idiot thing is he then suggests putting these things inside the body. Some Republicans will try and the only person to benefit will be Biden. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177?SThisFB
The doctor leading Japan’s response to coronavirus has defended the decision not to implement a national lockdown, saying that elimination of the virus was impossible and it was necessary to limit the damage to the economy.
The aim doesn't really sound different to Korea, namely:
Dr Omi said the goal [of the social distancing stuff] was to reduce the number of coronavirus cases to a level where they could once again be managed through contact tracing.
The difference is that in Korea they also think it's useful to proactively test lots of people, whereas for reasons the article doesn't explain this guy thinks it's better to wait for someone to show up at hospital with symptoms and only then start the contract tracing.
Beyond that, everyone wants to keep their economies working, but some places have left it too late and run out of road.
Comments
He's a living, breathing £350m bus - day-in, day-out - with a global profile.
In English usage, Scandinavia also sometimes refers more narrowly to the Scandinavian Peninsula, or more broadly so as to include the Åland Islands, the Faroe Islands, Finland and Iceland.[3][a]
The broader definition is similar to what are locally called the Nordic countries, which also include the remote Norwegian islands of Svalbard and Jan Mayen and Greenland, a constituent country within the Kingdom of Denmark.[5]
Even the widest definition doesn't include Estonia.
I think it's fair to compare (for Covid) Sweden to Norway, Denmark and Finland, but nothing wrong with comparing to other european countries too.
btw Sweden apparently has a higher percentage of urbanisation than France or Germany.
I would fully expect H2O2 to be an exceptionally effective antiseptic, particularly on hard surfaces etc. I wouldn't want it anywhere near my skin - you don't need a strong solution to chemically burn you. Injecting it? How. About. No.
Mostly I think Trump is a loon but this idea needs investigating rather than it being dismissed it out of hand. If someone other than Trump had suggested it i feel sure the response would have been entirely different.
That has a value because our own lifetimes are short and we can't learn and re-learn everything from ground zero each generation.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/new-jc-owner-as-jc-trust-approves-sale-to-consortium-1.499153
That is going to send some parts of twitter into meltdown, the Jewish paper back from the dead and consortium headed by former #10 head of communications.
If we wanted to stay a superpower we had to fight to keep the Empire, once Attlee and Labour gave up India we were never going to be more than a middle ranking, reasonably prosperous power.
Morally ending the Empire might have been right but politically and economically we were always going to be a weaker power after.
If you don't like it, I suggest you leave this discussion to grown up people.
No further comment.
End of exchange.
The USA is an internally leveraged one because it has the resources, population and economy to be one in its own right. But, once the UK lost India and automatic loyalty of the commonwealth on its foreign and defence policy it had to fall back on its own resources, which were and are modest.
Soft power doesn't work that way.
I thought that maybe I was writing in gibberish and only I could make sense of what I was saying. No smart arse remarks from anyone please!
Just had your ,cricket county e mail ? Surrey has said as much this morning
So three ways out. Everything else - absolutely everything else - is a delaying tactic.
https://twitter.com/danhollandnews/status/1253626721200414720?s=21
On your twitter page you often post photographs of places you have been and enjoyed... they always seem to be of buildings, scenery and nature, never the people in those places. I’d say they were similar representations of those places as the US ambassadors video is of England, yet wouldn’t have thought you were representing a falsely old fashioned, nostalgic view of them, just pretty pictures of somewhere you liked
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1252545273403932674?s=21
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1225582904366923778?s=21
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1221493122271776769?s=21
Say you have picked some weird looking mushrooms and you feed,one to the dog, which froths at the mouth and dies in convulsions. Do you exercise caution over the remaining mushrooms or do you say yebbut without a second dog which was fed a placebo, with the feeder being blinded as to which dog got what, this tells us absolutely nothing about the mushrooms, which I shall now eat?
I don't set much store by the hydrogen theory, but your rejection of it is the,pseudoscience.
1. random allocation.
2. controls, with placebo of distilled water, maybe also testing another drug.
3. blinding (ie. the treating medic doesn't know what is being injected).
If not then it is unacceptable. If Lind could use controls for his scurvy work in the 18th century ...
NY Times.
Please just stop. A single paper in a journal published in 1920 on a non-blinded small group /is/ not evidence. It’s barely better than wishful thinking. I know you think you’re helping, but please take it from me: this is not helpful to anyone. At best it’s simply a distraction, at worst you’ll encourage people who don’t know any better to seek out treatment from charlatans which will end up killing them.
https://twitter.com/MrDaveyWilliams/status/1253446904819613699?s=20
I'm worried about the level of apocalypse that might be wrought to prevent my fourth attempt to take my wife to a cricket match.
Attempt number one resulted in intermittent drizzle and the cancellation of Scotland vs Sri Lanka. Attempt two saw a day of continuous heavy rain to cancel Durham vs Notts. The third time resulted in a global pandemic with an R0 of ~3 and an IFR of ~1% to force the cancellation of Scotland vs Australia.
Do I book tickets for a fourth match?
"Trump unleashes nuclear weapons on California whilst Democrats unleash intemperant words. When did Congress get so uncivilised? "
Spot on.
Trump is going to keep touting miracle cures hoping that people condemn him and sooner or later there's something in one of them - the best thing is just to ignore him, don't fall into the trap
https://twitter.com/SuppressedSikh/status/1253476806201663488?s=20
https://www.ft.com/content/9bac4ad5-22e3-4bcd-b07b-8a248fe44465
https://twitter.com/tkbeynon/status/1253616993061797889
Unlike tennis and cricket, noone else need touch your balls. Or your cock in the case of badminton.
Take (or rather, don't) aconite. The ancient Greeks thought it was deadly poisonous, and it is. They learned this presumably on the basis of evidence (someone ate it and died) which we will have to say was anecdotal evidence, because they didn't do controlled experiments. Do you think their knowledge was useless and they should have cracked on with eating aconite, because there was no proper e vidence as to its properties?
I assume the peroxide enthusiasts are only asking for further experimnents (controlled, this time) and I can't for the life of me see what is wrong with that.
I think I'll take my chances with Covid-19 rather than having bleach in my veins mind.
No, more seriously, you are absolutely right. Players can easily stand well apart on the tee and greens at all times. Really missing the Masters, for me, it is THE MAJOR, of the year.
They come back with Joe Biden? seriously? that's their guy?
I'll be pretty much back of the queue for it anyway.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1253372736656809986
There's a lot of snobbery about coffee chains, I have to say, largely from people who don't remember how hard it was to get a reasonable quality coffee before they became widespread in the UK.
Pub beer gardens can open ?
https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1253321483402674178?s=21
The idiot thing is he then suggests putting these things inside the body.
Some Republicans will try and the only person to benefit will be Biden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177?SThisFB
Beyond that, everyone wants to keep their economies working, but some places have left it too late and run out of road.