If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
RE 5 November, Bin Laden has a lot to answer for. Before he came along, Lewes had a strict “Catholics only” rule, meaning they went for very petty target like Anthea Turner. Then 9/11 happened and since then they’ve blown up any old Tom, Dick or Harry.
Bloody Arsenal fans.
Having Piers Morgan as a fellow supporter is far worse. Even if he did make this happen:
I can imagine, when I was mentally preparing myself for Liverpool losing the Champions League final last year the positive I could take from it was seeing Piers Morgan's meltdown at Spurs winning the Champions League, especially before Arsenal.
An extra bank holiday is a good idea, but the trouble is that April is the wrong time. We already have two bank holidays in May – so we'd end up with three within six weeks or so!
One in the autumn, for Bonfire Night or some such, would be better, as there aren't any bank hols between August and Christmas.
I'm not convinced that everyone taking the same day off and crowding into the same places (even without the virus) is a good idea, but having it in autumn if so is a better idea.
To be honest, I wonder what proportion of Englishpeople know that today is St G's Day, or who he was or what he's got to do with England (something about a dragon, right?), and as noted in the poll, there isn't even a consensus that flying the flag is a good idea. People who do know all these things and are fond of the idea are free to take the day off to celebrate if they want to, why not? But it's not suitable as a joint holiday to mark something we all share in.
I suspect Boris is more likely to declare an NHS Day, to mark the date when the number of deaths from the virus hits 0.
I was always confused at why Team Corbyn were so keen on the idea when bank holidays can be counted by employers as statutory leave, ie the same leave, but less ability to use it.
If we need an extra bank holiday, let everyone get their own birthday, or the nearest Monday thereafter, as their own personal bank holiday. Spread through the year, and minimises the productivity costs. Worst of all I'm only half joking.
I believe workers in Timpsons get their birthday off courtesy of the company. You're not likely to be celebrating it all day anyway, and everyone else is as at work, so it seems better if give you the day after your birthday off if you are going to be celebrating hard.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Greece and Iceland in Europe, maybe Austria who were in there quick and hard. Iceland's an interesting one, the vast majority of people living in one small area of the country, right near the one major airport. It could be a disaster, but it isn't. Hong Kong is still doing remarkably well, again being a city state being either a massive help or a massive hindrance, depending on whether the virus gets out there too quickly.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Greece and Iceland in Europe, maybe Austria who were in there quick and hard. Iceland's an interesting one, the vast majority of people living in one small area of the country, right near the one major airport. It could be a disaster, but it isn't. Hong Kong is still doing remarkably well, again being a city state being either a massive help or a massive hindrance, depending on whether the virus gets out there too quickly.
St George's Day? We can't even have a patron saint who has anything to do with this country unlike the other home nations...
I’m not sure Patrick had that much to do with Ireland
Not by choice anyway?
I've always found the 'surprise' of Saints not being from a certain place a bit weird, and nationalistically focused. I'd naturally assume patron saints would be chosen whereever they came from on the basis of some characteristic of theirs which those selecting them as patron wanted to imply was characteristic of their country.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Greece and Iceland in Europe, maybe Austria who were in there quick and hard. Iceland's an interesting one, the vast majority of people living in one small area of the country, right near the one major airport. It could be a disaster, but it isn't. Hong Kong is still doing remarkably well, again being a city state being either a massive help or a massive hindrance, depending on whether the virus gets out there too quickly.
Its hard to see how you can lockdown the whole of Vietnam and how they managed to avoid even a single cluster outbreak, especially as the Virus was rampant in China for two months before they knew about it. There surely must be significant travel between China and Vietnam. Just look what happened in the Italian Alps just from one bloke coming back from Wuhan.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Why have Eastern European countries had so few covid deaths?
Vitamin D from doctors? TB jabs? Dare I say... not many BAME? That would apply to Russia though, and they’ve done badly
Poland has a much lower influenza death rate than the UK. Indeed during peak flu season they have weeks where no one dies of the flu. In a country with a vastly lower uptake of the flu vaccine.
My first and only stab in the dark is that their data reporting is pish.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Ok so Ecuador is being destroyed by the Virus, how far is that from Wuhan?
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
On topic, the absence of any boost for Donald Trump for his handling of the pandemic is striking. Pretty well everywhere else the public has given their leader support through these frightening times. He's testing "any publicity is good publicity" to the limit.
The thing is he seems to be holding onto most of the people who voted for him last time. So he only needs some moderately successful efforts to stymie a boost to Democrat turnout and he scrapes home again.
I see the anti-lockdown protests as a practice run for anti voter fraud protests on election day that will disrupt polling in strongly Democrat areas. Governance of US elections is poor, strongly partisan and vulnerable to such disruption. And if your supporters don't vote on the day for whatever reason you can't prove that they would have done, if they weren't prevented from doing so, after the event. It's too late and you lost.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
NerysHughes status update: Still confused by exponential growth
Why have Eastern European countries had so few covid deaths?
Vitamin D from doctors? TB jabs? Dare I say... not many BAME? That would apply to Russia though, and they’ve done badly
Poland has a much lower influenza death rate than the UK. Indeed during peak flu season they have weeks where no one dies of the flu. In a country with a vastly lower uptake of the flu vaccine.
My first and only stab in the dark is that their data reporting is pish.
Could be right re reporting... the difference is ridiculous if not
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Ok so Ecuador is being destroyed by the Virus, how far is that from Wuhan?
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
Good grief. Vietnam did lock down; Ecuador didn't. Conclusion: strength of precautionary measures taken are a better indicator of outcome than political geography.
I understand that this doesn't fit in with your preconceived prejudices.
My guess is that they locked down at the same time as Western Europe, seeing what was heading their way if they didn't take action, but before the spread had reached the same level there. So what the UK could have done in response to Italy.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Ok so Ecuador is being destroyed by the Virus, how far is that from Wuhan?
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
More to the point - Vietnam is heavily used by Chinese firms for outsourced manufacturing. So quite alot of Chinese people flying there and back.
The '5G WIFI IS BAD' graffiti shows we're dealing with bellends who have no understanding of how this technology.
This is a tangent but I find it disappointing how many MPs tabled written questions on 5G and health, going back a few years. In some cases these will be something in good faith or based on genuine, albeit badly ill-informed, 'concern' but I suspect many are to placate an otherwise difficult constituent ('I raised your concerns with the Minister - and am just as frustrated at the response as you are').
I've always had respect for MPs who can, politely, tell a constituent why they are wrong rather than nodding along insincerely - the latter has always seemed a bit of a disservice to me.
St George's Day? We can't even have a patron saint who has anything to do with this country unlike the other home nations...
St Andrew was Galilean, St Patrick was Welsh, St David is the only native saint of these islands. St George is also the patron of Catalonia, Aragon, Valencia, Ethiopia, Moscow and Georgia. He has as little to do with them as England.
Some of us see it as a positive outcome of Brexit rather than an unfortunate consequence. It helps to right a historic wrong.
There's nothing positive about the break-up of the UK - whatsoever.
And I'd be very careful about reaching into history and arguing that your political preferences today help to correct some of those (heavily mythologised) wrongs, particularly where such black & white views could lead to all sorts of unintended consequences.
You might find your political opponents want to do the same when they take office over something they really value too.
I couldn't disagree more. The positive about the break-up of the UK is the EXACT SAME principle as to why we voted for Brexit - that control over laws is better exercised by those who vote for the law.
If the Scots think they can better control their own laws than the English can then the Scots should be free to do so - and I think they could. It isn't healthy to have a union were 90% of the population is in one member, so the other 10% spend more time griping about the actions of politicians of the 90% than they do looking after themselves. If Scotland goes free it will be forced quickly to grow up and look after itself. That's a good thing.
Scottish politics today is infantilised by the union.
A hypothetical for you -
What do you think should happen if England wants to leave the UK but Scotland does not?
That's easy. If England votes to leave the UK then England should leave it. Same if the roles were reversed, then Scotland should leave. If Scotland had voted to leave the UK in its referendum then England not wanting to do so wouldn't have been relevant.
My principle is that if its not a prison anyone can choose to leave freely if that is their choice.
OK. But make the (reasonable) assumption that England leaving means the total breakup of the UK.
Are you not (in our hypothetical) forcing 3 nations to be independent against their will?
We had similar discussions in 2013-2014. One thing that became very clear was that the English would fight to the end to equate England = United Kingdom (even though the dissolution of the unions with Ireland and Scotland would abolish the UK de jure and de facto), partly because of their self-perception and partly because of such things as the UN Security Council seat. Ergo you would end up with two UKs - neither of which would actually meet that description!
I'm interested in this aspect because of something I've noticed about a certain type of Englishman who I've come across from time to time. These types will hold both of the following views -
(i) Scotland would sink as an independent country.
(ii) Scotland should be an independent country.
In other words they are English "Scottish Nationalists" who are driven by antipathy towards Scotland.
And what these people always say is that Scottish independence should be voted on by the whole of the UK. They want to have a vote on it themselves. Their ideal (in such a referendum) is that Scotland votes No but England votes Yes - meaning the overall result is Yes because England is miles bigger.
Upshot is that rather than Scotland "gaining independence" they are "kicked out".
This is IMO not a good outcome. And it is (effectively) the same outcome that one would get in my hypothetical where England votes to leave the UK, thus breaking up the UK, with Scotland not wanting to be independent.
Hence why I think that, on balance and despite the arguments the other way, only the smaller nations can decide to leave. England can't. Or at least, it's deeply problematical if it does.
FPT - to respond to you - I do remember that tendency from the indyref arguments here and elsewhere.
In practice the English could vote simply to dissolve the Acts of Union (and whatever legislation annexed the Principality of Wales) - not so much leaving the UK but making it evaporate. If they voted for Brexit, and that was democratic - so would this be. I can't see why not.
The last polling I saw on the subject, it was the Tory/Unionist/"British" nationalist [descriptive, not BNP!]/Brexiter tendency which tended to be happy with losing NI and Scotland. Much of this however was in the context of impending Brexit vote so it was in part - would you rather have your desired Brexit or keep the Union? It would have been crucial if the English vote had been a midgie's bawhair less for Brexit and the Scots were seen as keeping the English unfairly in the EU.
Part of the problem with the idea of the English voting on indyref, BTW, arose, I think, because the Scottish Gmt used a residential qualification for the vote - so that e.g. Mr Cameron ex-PM or Mr Blair were not allowed to vote despite being a Scot by blood (what percentage, I forget). That was partly because of the legislation already in being which defined the franchise for referenda, and partly I imagine because in the absence of a Scottish passport or similar definition of national citizenship there was no legal or practical way to tell a Scot furth of Scotland from other subjects of HMtQ. Hence complaints from such folk (often hostile to indy). Which might have been broadened to the wider English voting publixc perhaps?
Of course, many of the same folk that you speak of would have been furious if one suggested allowing the Germans, say, to have a vote on Brexit. But, to extend the comparison of two supranational organizations further, it would be one thing for the Continentals to kick the British+Nirish out of the EU, but quite another to dissplve the EU by a majority vote (but of what? people? states?).
Thanks for response.
Just on one of your points -
I think having the electorate defined by residence rather than "blood" supports the notion that Scottish Nationalism is civic not nativist. This is an important differentiator from both the nasty bellicose and the reactionary insular type.
Also (imo) means the movement must die once it has achieved its goal.
It's not just the SNP - there's the wider pro-indy movement, including elements of Labour and many of the Greens, of course. Not the same thing. I think the SNP would lose some of the pro-indy vote but gain the centrist social democratic vote that was against indy. How the other parties would fare I dunno. At the very least, the Scottish Labour Party, or its pro-indy spinoff, could revive after independence. Not so sure what would happen to the Tories - they have the same problem in a sense, in that their only policy statement has been No to Independence over the last few years, apart from a reverse ferret to support Brexit of late.
I think a centre right party might thrive in an independent Scotland, going by the profile of Scots posters on here. Quite a few of them (to my ear) are that way inclined.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Ok so Ecuador is being destroyed by the Virus, how far is that from Wuhan?
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
More to the point - Vietnam is heavily used by Chinese firms for outsourced manufacturing. So quite alot of Chinese people flying there and back.
Exactly, how it has escaped a single death is truly astonishing as they had thousands of workers in Wuhan.
An extra bank holiday is a good idea, but the trouble is that April is the wrong time. We already have two bank holidays in May – so we'd end up with three within six weeks or so!
One in the autumn, for Bonfire Night or some such, would be better, as there aren't any bank hols between August and Christmas.
I'm not convinced that everyone taking the same day off and crowding into the same places (even without the virus) is a good idea, but having it in autumn if so is a better idea.
To be honest, I wonder what proportion of Englishpeople know that today is St G's Day, or who he was or what he's got to do with England (something about a dragon, right?), and as noted in the poll, there isn't even a consensus that flying the flag is a good idea. People who do know all these things and are fond of the idea are free to take the day off to celebrate if they want to, why not? But it's not suitable as a joint holiday to mark something we all share in.
I suspect Boris is more likely to declare an NHS Day, to mark the date when the number of deaths from the virus hits 0.
I was always confused at why Team Corbyn were so keen on the idea when bank holidays can be counted by employers as statutory leave, ie the same leave, but less ability to use it.
If we need an extra bank holiday, let everyone get their own birthday, or the nearest Monday thereafter, as their own personal bank holiday. Spread through the year, and minimises the productivity costs. Worst of all I'm only half joking.
I believe workers in Timpsons get their birthday off courtesy of the company. You're not likely to be celebrating it all day anyway, and everyone else is as at work, so it seems better if give you the day after your birthday off if you are going to be celebrating hard.
I was born on 1 January 1974 - the first time New Years Day was officially a holiday in England and Wales.
Why have Eastern European countries had so few covid deaths?
Vitamin D from doctors? TB jabs? Dare I say... not many BAME? That would apply to Russia though, and they’ve done badly
Poland has a much lower influenza death rate than the UK. Indeed during peak flu season they have weeks where no one dies of the flu. In a country with a vastly lower uptake of the flu vaccine.
My first and only stab in the dark is that their data reporting is pish.
Could be right re reporting... the difference is ridiculous if not
Why isn't Belgium in that chart at approx. 500+ deaths per million?
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Ok so Ecuador is being destroyed by the Virus, how far is that from Wuhan?
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
Good grief. Vietnam did lock down; Ecuador didn't. Conclusion: strength of precautionary measures taken are a better indicator of outcome than political geography.
I understand that this doesn't fit in with your preconceived prejudices.
So all the workers who returned to Vietnam from Wuhan in January and February, do you not think it is astonishing that not a single one of them died, especially when you consider what the real death toll in Wuhan is?
How is wondering how Vietnam has managed no deaths showing that I have preconceived prejudices
As doctors and nurses risk their lives to treat Covid-19 patients, medical defence organisations have called on the government to pass emergency laws to protect them and the NHS from billions in legal claims.
The Medical Defence Union (MDU), which indemnifies against clinical negligence claims, says that doctors should be spared the stress and anxiety of legal actions and has asked ministers to debate giving them immunity.
Several US states, including New York, New Jersey and Michigan, have adopted laws providing healthcare professionals and hospitals with “immunity from civil liability for any injury or death alleged to have been sustained because of any acts or omissions undertaken in good faith”.
The MDU highlights that doctors are being asked to work in areas outside their expertise where they may not have the most up-to-date knowledge, with retired doctors recalled to work and final-year medical students starting work early.
Why have Eastern European countries had so few covid deaths?
Vitamin D from doctors? TB jabs? Dare I say... not many BAME? That would apply to Russia though, and they’ve done badly
Poland has a much lower influenza death rate than the UK. Indeed during peak flu season they have weeks where no one dies of the flu. In a country with a vastly lower uptake of the flu vaccine.
My first and only stab in the dark is that their data reporting is pish.
Could be right re reporting... the difference is ridiculous if not
While death rates per million population make sense in many ways, you do also have to consider initial infections. If two countries have a population of 100 million but country (a) has only one person bringing the infection in while the other (b) has two then, if all else is equal and those two have no contacts in common all he way through the infection chain to the current point, the infections (and deaths) in country (b) are double those in country (a) and so are the per million figures.
That's obviously very simplistic and effects differ over time, but if a country was less connected to countries with early high rates of infection and so had fewer people bringing the infection in then it is to be expected that infections and deaths per million will be lower at this point. Were there as many people from Eastern Europe travelling to/from China and skiing in Italy as there were from Western Europe? I don't know, but if not, that could be an explanation.
Of course if widespread community transmission happens in those countries (that may be interrupted by lockdowns) then it all evens out in the end. But this is another reason why comparison between countries at this point can be tricky.
As doctors and nurses risk their lives to treat Covid-19 patients, medical defence organisations have called on the government to pass emergency laws to protect them and the NHS from billions in legal claims.
The Medical Defence Union (MDU), which indemnifies against clinical negligence claims, says that doctors should be spared the stress and anxiety of legal actions and has asked ministers to debate giving them immunity.
Several US states, including New York, New Jersey and Michigan, have adopted laws providing healthcare professionals and hospitals with “immunity from civil liability for any injury or death alleged to have been sustained because of any acts or omissions undertaken in good faith”.
The MDU highlights that doctors are being asked to work in areas outside their expertise where they may not have the most up-to-date knowledge, with retired doctors recalled to work and final-year medical students starting work early.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Ok so Ecuador is being destroyed by the Virus, how far is that from Wuhan?
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
Good grief. Vietnam did lock down; Ecuador didn't. Conclusion: strength of precautionary measures taken are a better indicator of outcome than political geography.
I understand that this doesn't fit in with your preconceived prejudices.
So all the workers who returned to Vietnam from Wuhan in January and February, do you not think it is astonishing that not a single one of them died, especially when you consider what the real death toll in Wuhan is?
How is wondering how Vietnam has managed no deaths showing that I have preconceived prejudices
- I have limited confidence that the Vietnamese data is entirely accurate - However, I have no reason to believe that it's materially wrong. Ie, they may be hiding/have missed a few or even a few hundred deaths, but I have no reason to believe they have thousands or tens of thousands. They might, of course - It's very clear from the general tone of your posts that you disagree quite strongly with the need for, and effectiveness of, a lockdown in the UK - It seems to me that you are therefore trying to explain away anything and everything that might indicate that a lockdown is a good idea
Why have Eastern European countries had so few covid deaths?
Vitamin D from doctors? TB jabs? Dare I say... not many BAME? That would apply to Russia though, and they’ve done badly
Poland has a much lower influenza death rate than the UK. Indeed during peak flu season they have weeks where no one dies of the flu. In a country with a vastly lower uptake of the flu vaccine.
My first and only stab in the dark is that their data reporting is pish.
Could be right re reporting... the difference is ridiculous if not
Poland did take very early lockdown action, closing bars, suspending all flights etc but their reported influenza deaths were so unbelievable I had to go find corroboration to check I wasn't misreading it.
As doctors and nurses risk their lives to treat Covid-19 patients, medical defence organisations have called on the government to pass emergency laws to protect them and the NHS from billions in legal claims.
The Medical Defence Union (MDU), which indemnifies against clinical negligence claims, says that doctors should be spared the stress and anxiety of legal actions and has asked ministers to debate giving them immunity.
Several US states, including New York, New Jersey and Michigan, have adopted laws providing healthcare professionals and hospitals with “immunity from civil liability for any injury or death alleged to have been sustained because of any acts or omissions undertaken in good faith”.
The MDU highlights that doctors are being asked to work in areas outside their expertise where they may not have the most up-to-date knowledge, with retired doctors recalled to work and final-year medical students starting work early.
St George's Day? We can't even have a patron saint who has anything to do with this country unlike the other home nations...
St Andrew was Galilean, St Patrick was Welsh, St David is the only native saint of these islands. St George is also the patron of Catalonia, Aragon, Valencia, Ethiopia, Moscow and Georgia. He has as little to do with them as England.
St Patrick is credited with being the founder of Christianity in Ireland and even noting the dispute as to whether a female missionary made it there first, it's absurd to lump him in with St George as having nothing to do with Ireland just because he came from Wales.
My guess is that they locked down at the same time as Western Europe, seeing what was heading their way if they didn't take action, but before the spread had reached the same level there. So what the UK could have done in response to Italy.
The UK's big problem was that it really kicked off at the time thousands of British people were on skiing holidays in Italy and flying back through airports which seemed to be populated almost entirely by Coronavirus. It seemed at one point that pretty much everyone coming back from Italy was coming back with a case of it. I have no idea if Italy is a particularly Brit-friendly ski destination, or whether its airports are more used by Brits than other nationalities.
Have watched the first half. My takeaway is: He has to believe this now - he's completely committed. If his advice is wrong, then he's personally responsible for a lotof unnecessary deaths. Which is a thought too horrifying to internalise.
Specifics: - He claims there is no evidence to support social distancing working to decrease the spread (seriously? No evidence that increasing physical distances between people and reducing the number of times they come into close contact with other people hampers a virus trying to spread?), and Sweden is sticking to the evidence. He then promptly reels off a series of social distancing measures they have instituted. Which is it supposed to be? - He states that the Imperial College paper didn't consider increasing critical care capacity as a key flaw (and that they have tripled capacity in Sweden). Seeing as when you read the paper, the capacity would need to increase from 8 beds per 100,000 to 120+ per 100,000 (tripling wouldn't even dent it) following mitigation, and over 300 beds per 100,000 for "let it rip", that's not really a key flaw. - "Why is the curve flattening if social distancing isn't the factor?" - "When the frail and elderly are thinned out, you will get less deaths." [throw the elderly under the bus, essentially???] - On being asked why their death rate per capita is far greater than the countries around them - Norway, Finland, Denmark - he protests that it's not true for Denmark. However, it is - although Denmark has the worst of those three, Sweden's death rate per capita is triple that of Denmark. - He then cites the key factor being that their nursing homes are worse. Well, if you deduct all deaths from those over seventy (and I would assume that not every over-seventy is in a home in Sweden; they aren't elsewhere), then the deaths left over still would approximate to the most of the entire Norwegian death toll scaled up for Swedish population levels. Unless Norway, uniquely in the world, has all-but-perfectly protected their elderly and their deaths are overwhelmingly that of younger victims, it's also untrue. - Finland apparently doesn't count because they started their restrictions (which, remember, don't work, according to him) earlier and thus choked off the disease... - Then he goes more or less, all right, we're doing badly, but wait for a year and I bet everyone will look the same.
Stopped watching at that point. I felt really bad for him. Because he knows that if he's wrong (and he's having difficulty coming up with consistent reasons why he's right), a lot of Swedish deaths are on his conscience, and, like any of us in that position, he's desperate for that not to be the case, poor guy.
St George's Day? We can't even have a patron saint who has anything to do with this country unlike the other home nations...
St Andrew was Galilean, St Patrick was Welsh, St David is the only native saint of these islands. St George is also the patron of Catalonia, Aragon, Valencia, Ethiopia, Moscow and Georgia. He has as little to do with them as England.
St Patrick is credited with being the founder of Christianity in Ireland and even noting the dispute as to whether a female missionary made it there first, it's absurd to lump him in with St George as having nothing to do with Ireland just because he came from Wales.
Didn't St Pat come from Carlisle? It was all British then like with Wales anyway (before the English came and took over).
The same way people wish we had more politicians who had been scientists like Merkel, i think we need a lot more political journalists who were scentists, because they clearly understand f##k all about anything technical.
Merkel's a giant. She's right of centre yet I prefer her to many politicians who are closer to - or indeed right in - my political space.
The staggering incompetence and incoherence of Trump in relation to Covid, along with the economic calamity that this is going to bring to these States makes it slightly surprising that it is as close as this. Trump really needs a game changer such as a US produced vaccine which is then efficiently and competently delivered. Not sure I fancy his chances right now.
As for Biden, probably the less coverage he gets the better.
Cant see how Biden copes with head to head debates when he cant remember his own name
He dispatched Sanders fine in a head-to-head.
The talking down of Biden's debate skill is getting to Bush W levels. He just needs to turn up and not drool and he'll be given a standing ovation by the press at this point.
You and me have got this one. Trump is toast and he's only getting crisper.
I think Biden has plenty of scope to fuck this up. I think he is a rank rotten candidate.
But he's not as bad on some here are projecting him as.
Biden is the least intellectual Democratic nominee since LBJ (and LBJ likely had the higher iq of the 2) but he has more charisma than Hillary did against Trump or Kerry did against Bush and charisma tends to be key in US elections (though Trump has charisma too of course).
Essentially he is the Democrat’s Reagan. If he gets elected, he won’t have a clue what’s going on, and we’ll just have to hope that his clueless affability will be underpinned by people in his team with grip and good judgement.
Reagan won the 1984 election before he showed signs of dementia.
By the time he died he did not know that he had been President. Terribly sad.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Ok so Ecuador is being destroyed by the Virus, how far is that from Wuhan?
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
Good grief. Vietnam did lock down; Ecuador didn't. Conclusion: strength of precautionary measures taken are a better indicator of outcome than political geography.
I understand that this doesn't fit in with your preconceived prejudices.
So all the workers who returned to Vietnam from Wuhan in January and February, do you not think it is astonishing that not a single one of them died, especially when you consider what the real death toll in Wuhan is?
How is wondering how Vietnam has managed no deaths showing that I have preconceived prejudices
- I have limited confidence that the Vietnamese data is entirely accurate - However, I have no reason to believe that it's materially wrong. Ie, they may be hiding/have missed a few or even a few hundred deaths, but I have no reason to believe they have thousands or tens of thousands. They might, of course - It's very clear from the general tone of your posts that you disagree quite strongly with the need for, and effectiveness of, a lockdown in the UK - It seems to me that you are therefore trying to explain away anything and everything that might indicate that a lockdown is a good idea
You are right that I am not 100% sure that a lockdown is the panacea for fighting the virus. It may well be the only way, but that data from Spain and Italy is not supporting that, I agree that case numbers have come down but 4,500 new cases in Spain 43 days into a severe lockdown does not seem to me to provide 100% evidence that a lockdown is as effective as people believe.
My point about Vietnam is to demonstrate how odd this virus is. I am sure that during November and December infected people returned from Wuhan to Vietnam This was before anyone knew about Covid-19 There was no lockdown and these people would have mingled with the population spreading the virus. If you look at how close people live together in Vietnam how did it not spread? It makes absolutely no sense when you consider how quickly it spread through major cities in Western Europe.
As doctors and nurses risk their lives to treat Covid-19 patients, medical defence organisations have called on the government to pass emergency laws to protect them and the NHS from billions in legal claims.
The Medical Defence Union (MDU), which indemnifies against clinical negligence claims, says that doctors should be spared the stress and anxiety of legal actions and has asked ministers to debate giving them immunity.
Several US states, including New York, New Jersey and Michigan, have adopted laws providing healthcare professionals and hospitals with “immunity from civil liability for any injury or death alleged to have been sustained because of any acts or omissions undertaken in good faith”.
The MDU highlights that doctors are being asked to work in areas outside their expertise where they may not have the most up-to-date knowledge, with retired doctors recalled to work and final-year medical students starting work early.
As doctors and nurses risk their lives to treat Covid-19 patients, medical defence organisations have called on the government to pass emergency laws to protect them and the NHS from billions in legal claims.
The Medical Defence Union (MDU), which indemnifies against clinical negligence claims, says that doctors should be spared the stress and anxiety of legal actions and has asked ministers to debate giving them immunity.
Several US states, including New York, New Jersey and Michigan, have adopted laws providing healthcare professionals and hospitals with “immunity from civil liability for any injury or death alleged to have been sustained because of any acts or omissions undertaken in good faith”.
The MDU highlights that doctors are being asked to work in areas outside their expertise where they may not have the most up-to-date knowledge, with retired doctors recalled to work and final-year medical students starting work early.
St George's Day? We can't even have a patron saint who has anything to do with this country unlike the other home nations...
St Andrew was Galilean, St Patrick was Welsh, St David is the only native saint of these islands. St George is also the patron of Catalonia, Aragon, Valencia, Ethiopia, Moscow and Georgia. He has as little to do with them as England.
St Patrick is credited with being the founder of Christianity in Ireland and even noting the dispute as to whether a female missionary made it there first, it's absurd to lump him in with St George as having nothing to do with Ireland just because he came from Wales.
Didn't St Pat come from Carlisle? It was all British then like with Wales anyway (before the English came and took over).
So some people say, but, still, being born in Britannia doesn't lessen his importance to Christianity in Ireland.
IT's awful navigating other countries statistical office websites. You'd think "number of people who died per day/week/month" would be a common basic statistic but it's not!
Why have Eastern European countries had so few covid deaths?
Vitamin D from doctors? TB jabs? Dare I say... not many BAME? That would apply to Russia though, and they’ve done badly
Poland has a much lower influenza death rate than the UK. Indeed during peak flu season they have weeks where no one dies of the flu. In a country with a vastly lower uptake of the flu vaccine.
My first and only stab in the dark is that their data reporting is pish.
Could be right re reporting... the difference is ridiculous if not
Poland did take very early lockdown action, closing bars, suspending all flights etc but their reported influenza deaths were so unbelievable I had to go find corroboration to check I wasn't misreading it.
Comparing 'deaths above the normal' per million, would I think be the best way of doing this, but obviously there will be a bigger lag until that data is available in a compatible fashion form meany nations.
To the best of my knowledge the 'reported deaths related to COVID' is lower than the deaths above normal across all places with compatible fingers at the movement except Sweden.
IT's awful navigating other countries statistical office websites. You'd think "number of people who died per day/week/month" would be a common basic statistic but it's not!
IT's awful navigating other countries statistical office websites. You'd think "number of people who died per day/week/month" would be a common basic statistic but it's not!
The ONS is very much the gold standard.
The mind boggles that some journalists didn't know about it.
An extra bank holiday is a good idea, but the trouble is that April is the wrong time. We already have two bank holidays in May – so we'd end up with three within six weeks or so!
One in the autumn, for Bonfire Night or some such, would be better, as there aren't any bank hols between August and Christmas.
We Scots have one in the autumn already: St Andrews.
Bonfire Night is not PC, BTW.
I didn't know that, actually.
Re: Bonfire Night really, why not?
Anti-Catholicism. Also - and a more important issue to many now - pollution and terrifying pets.
In fairness - I realise I've been reading too many 19th century social histories. I retract that anti-RC element - so far as I know not significant today, unless anyone knows better. But as already pointged out by another PBer, it celebrates something a bit gruesome (burning alive).
Does it? Guy Fawkes was hanged drawn and quartered as far as I was aware.
If I understand correctly, doing what they did would violate just about every concept of data privacy and confidentiality the UK has.
Vietnam is next to China and is very densley populated in areas and has a population of 95 million. Their Health Service while improved would not compare to the Western standard. It makes no sense how they can have zero deaths. Just look at Spain today, 4500 new cases and 450 deaths 43 days into a severe lockdown, Vietnam which is next to China just 268 cases in total and no deaths.
"Vietnam is next to China" is perhaps one of the least insightful thoughts I've ever seen expressed. The distance from Wuhan to the Vietnam border is almost a thousand miles, and a lot of the land in between is pretty empty. I'm not even sure why you've mentioned Spain, but whatever the thought process was, it's not remotely comparable.
Ok so Ecuador is being destroyed by the Virus, how far is that from Wuhan?
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
Good grief. Vietnam did lock down; Ecuador didn't. Conclusion: strength of precautionary measures taken are a better indicator of outcome than political geography.
I understand that this doesn't fit in with your preconceived prejudices.
So all the workers who returned to Vietnam from Wuhan in January and February, do you not think it is astonishing that not a single one of them died, especially when you consider what the real death toll in Wuhan is?
How is wondering how Vietnam has managed no deaths showing that I have preconceived prejudices
- I have limited confidence that the Vietnamese data is entirely accurate - However, I have no reason to believe that it's materially wrong. Ie, they may be hiding/have missed a few or even a few hundred deaths, but I have no reason to believe they have thousands or tens of thousands. They might, of course - It's very clear from the general tone of your posts that you disagree quite strongly with the need for, and effectiveness of, a lockdown in the UK - It seems to me that you are therefore trying to explain away anything and everything that might indicate that a lockdown is a good idea
You are right that I am not 100% sure that a lockdown is the panacea for fighting the virus. It may well be the only way, but that data from Spain and Italy is not supporting that, I agree that case numbers have come down but 4,500 new cases in Spain 43 days into a severe lockdown does not seem to me to provide 100% evidence that a lockdown is as effective as people believe. .
Because lockdowns decrease Rt to below 1, but not instantly to zero? It doesn't place everyone into solitary confinement - there's still interaction and opportunities for exposure - just a lot less.
A parachute slows descent, but does not stop you in mid air. But chop it away and you start accelerating again.
Lockdowns stop exponential growth. If they'd continued exponential doubling every 3-4 days from 1 week after social distancing was encouraged in Spain (thus the 16th of March), we'd be looking at 1800 times as many infected (instead of 8 times as many). Assume deaths at same rate (despite total oversaturation of health service), and you'd be looking at more than 200 times as many deaths. Exponential growth, innit.
So, let's look at "social distancing encourage, but not lockdown" (which they had for about 5 days prior to lockdown. Data is scarcer, but it looks like the doubling rate reduced to about every 8 days rather than 3-4 days, which helps - but still gives exponential growth and would result in about 5 times the number of deaths we've so far seen there. Exponential growth is a bastard. Which is why we really want to avoid it, and it can race off bloody quickly if we let it.
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Why have Eastern European countries had so few covid deaths?
Vitamin D from doctors? TB jabs? Dare I say... not many BAME? That would apply to Russia though, and they’ve done badly
Poland has a much lower influenza death rate than the UK. Indeed during peak flu season they have weeks where no one dies of the flu. In a country with a vastly lower uptake of the flu vaccine.
My first and only stab in the dark is that their data reporting is pish.
Could be right re reporting... the difference is ridiculous if not
Poland did take very early lockdown action, closing bars, suspending all flights etc but their reported influenza deaths were so unbelievable I had to go find corroboration to check I wasn't misreading it.
An extra bank holiday is a good idea, but the trouble is that April is the wrong time. We already have two bank holidays in May – so we'd end up with three within six weeks or so!
One in the autumn, for Bonfire Night or some such, would be better, as there aren't any bank hols between August and Christmas.
I'm not convinced that everyone taking the same day off and crowding into the same places (even without the virus) is a good idea, but having it in autumn if so is a better idea.
To be honest, I wonder what proportion of Englishpeople know that today is St G's Day, or who he was or what he's got to do with England (something about a dragon, right?), and as noted in the poll, there isn't even a consensus that flying the flag is a good idea. People who do know all these things and are fond of the idea are free to take the day off to celebrate if they want to, why not? But it's not suitable as a joint holiday to mark something we all share in.
I suspect Boris is more likely to declare an NHS Day, to mark the date when the number of deaths from the virus hits 0.
I was always confused at why Team Corbyn were so keen on the idea when bank holidays can be counted by employers as statutory leave, ie the same leave, but less ability to use it.
If we need an extra bank holiday, let everyone get their own birthday, or the nearest Monday thereafter, as their own personal bank holiday. Spread through the year, and minimises the productivity costs. Worst of all I'm only half joking.
I believe workers in Timpsons get their birthday off courtesy of the company. You're not likely to be celebrating it all day anyway, and everyone else is as at work, so it seems better if give you the day after your birthday off if you are going to be celebrating hard.
I was born on 1 January 1974 - the first time New Years Day was officially a holiday in England and Wales.
46 then. One year off your prime and the great news is that it's one year ahead not behind. 47. This age (for men) is the sweet spot. You will be peaking in terms of finances and career, be at the point where experience has not yet curdled into stasis, be quite sharp and sociable, and whilst over the hill physically still be capable of the essentials - and on a good day of rather more than that.
An extra bank holiday is a good idea, but the trouble is that April is the wrong time. We already have two bank holidays in May – so we'd end up with three within six weeks or so!
One in the autumn, for Bonfire Night or some such, would be better, as there aren't any bank hols between August and Christmas.
We Scots have one in the autumn already: St Andrews.
Bonfire Night is not PC, BTW.
I didn't know that, actually.
Re: Bonfire Night really, why not?
Apparently some people have an issue with burning Guys because they symbolise catholics.
Personally I reckon most people just like fireworks
SEOUL (XINHUA) - South Korea's health authorities said on Thursday (April 23) that it will prepare medical resources for a possible second wave of Covid-19 infections this autumn and winter in conjunction with the flu season.
Border restrictions would likely be the final measure lifted and would stay in place even if other rules were eased, according to Chief Medical Officer Brendan Murphy, the Australian Broadcasting Corp reported on Thursday (April 23).
The S11 Dormitory in Punggol remains Singapore's largest active cluster with 2,234 confirmed cases. The cluster alone accounts for almost 20 per cent of all the cases here.
An extra bank holiday is a good idea, but the trouble is that April is the wrong time. We already have two bank holidays in May – so we'd end up with three within six weeks or so!
One in the autumn, for Bonfire Night or some such, would be better, as there aren't any bank hols between August and Christmas.
We Scots have one in the autumn already: St Andrews.
Bonfire Night is not PC, BTW.
I didn't know that, actually.
Re: Bonfire Night really, why not?
Apparently some people have an issue with burning Guys because they symbolise catholics.
Personally I reckon most people just like fireworks
Plenty of students from Brighton go to Lewes. They seem to put up with the no popery stuff.
Moth du Jour: Green Carpet. When freshly emerged they are very brightly coloured like this, but the green fades extremely quickly. It goes almost white.
Antibody study showing 21% of NY City testing positive, which is about two million people. For the state as a whole it's 14%, or 2.7 million.
They've already had 20k deaths .....
Apparently they tested supermarket customers. Are they representative? More likely to be spending time outside their house I imagine. Younger, maybe? In actual factbthe figure was 14% showing positive but they extrapolated from that. LA had results about 4%, so the way New York has been badly affected is clear from the difference between the two.
Comments
https://twitter.com/pressgazette/status/1253344169638141953
I've always found the 'surprise' of Saints not being from a certain place a bit weird, and nationalistically focused. I'd naturally assume patron saints would be chosen whereever they came from on the basis of some characteristic of theirs which those selecting them as patron wanted to imply was characteristic of their country.
Fewer young people mixing socially in cities, brewing the virus, then spreading it to the elderly?
That’s a wild guess! But why is there such an enormous disparity in deaths per million?
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/332495-demographic-gap-widens-between-eastern-and-western-europe
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1253320806022569990?s=20
https://twitter.com/LucyPasha/status/1253339517332881408?s=20
My first and only stab in the dark is that their data reporting is pish.
What is happening in North China now with the people returning from Russia?
But saying Vietnam is next to China is not insightful?
I see the anti-lockdown protests as a practice run for anti voter fraud protests on election day that will disrupt polling in strongly Democrat areas. Governance of US elections is poor, strongly partisan and vulnerable to such disruption. And if your supporters don't vote on the day for whatever reason you can't prove that they would have done, if they weren't prevented from doing so, after the event. It's too late and you lost.
I understand that this doesn't fit in with your preconceived prejudices.
I've always had respect for MPs who can, politely, tell a constituent why they are wrong rather than nodding along insincerely - the latter has always seemed a bit of a disservice to me.
How is wondering how Vietnam has managed no deaths showing that I have preconceived prejudices
The Medical Defence Union (MDU), which indemnifies against clinical negligence claims, says that doctors should be spared the stress and anxiety of legal actions and has asked ministers to debate giving them immunity.
Several US states, including New York, New Jersey and Michigan, have adopted laws providing healthcare professionals and hospitals with “immunity from civil liability for any injury or death alleged to have been sustained because of any acts or omissions undertaken in good faith”.
The MDU highlights that doctors are being asked to work in areas outside their expertise where they may not have the most up-to-date knowledge, with retired doctors recalled to work and final-year medical students starting work early.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/law/nhs-faces-billions-in-coronavirus-claims-m0db5g8j8
ENGLAND: St Roger of Waters
SCOTLAND: Saint Alex of Salmond
WALES: Saint Tom of Jones
IRELAND: Saint Bob of Geldof
That's obviously very simplistic and effects differ over time, but if a country was less connected to countries with early high rates of infection and so had fewer people bringing the infection in then it is to be expected that infections and deaths per million will be lower at this point. Were there as many people from Eastern Europe travelling to/from China and skiing in Italy as there were from Western Europe? I don't know, but if not, that could be an explanation.
Of course if widespread community transmission happens in those countries (that may be interrupted by lockdowns) then it all evens out in the end. But this is another reason why comparison between countries at this point can be tricky.
- However, I have no reason to believe that it's materially wrong. Ie, they may be hiding/have missed a few or even a few hundred deaths, but I have no reason to believe they have thousands or tens of thousands. They might, of course
- It's very clear from the general tone of your posts that you disagree quite strongly with the need for, and effectiveness of, a lockdown in the UK
- It seems to me that you are therefore trying to explain away anything and everything that might indicate that a lockdown is a good idea
Won "University Challenge" this year by a country mile. Others needn't have bothered.
If followed by the vaccine. Talk about a double!
(Not doubting you, genuinely looking for info.)
I have no idea if Italy is a particularly Brit-friendly ski destination, or whether its airports are more used by Brits than other nationalities.
Specifics:
- He claims there is no evidence to support social distancing working to decrease the spread (seriously? No evidence that increasing physical distances between people and reducing the number of times they come into close contact with other people hampers a virus trying to spread?), and Sweden is sticking to the evidence. He then promptly reels off a series of social distancing measures they have instituted. Which is it supposed to be?
- He states that the Imperial College paper didn't consider increasing critical care capacity as a key flaw (and that they have tripled capacity in Sweden). Seeing as when you read the paper, the capacity would need to increase from 8 beds per 100,000 to 120+ per 100,000 (tripling wouldn't even dent it) following mitigation, and over 300 beds per 100,000 for "let it rip", that's not really a key flaw.
- "Why is the curve flattening if social distancing isn't the factor?" - "When the frail and elderly are thinned out, you will get less deaths." [throw the elderly under the bus, essentially???]
- On being asked why their death rate per capita is far greater than the countries around them - Norway, Finland, Denmark - he protests that it's not true for Denmark. However, it is - although Denmark has the worst of those three, Sweden's death rate per capita is triple that of Denmark.
- He then cites the key factor being that their nursing homes are worse. Well, if you deduct all deaths from those over seventy (and I would assume that not every over-seventy is in a home in Sweden; they aren't elsewhere), then the deaths left over still would approximate to the most of the entire Norwegian death toll scaled up for Swedish population levels. Unless Norway, uniquely in the world, has all-but-perfectly protected their elderly and their deaths are overwhelmingly that of younger victims, it's also untrue.
- Finland apparently doesn't count because they started their restrictions (which, remember, don't work, according to him) earlier and thus choked off the disease...
- Then he goes more or less, all right, we're doing badly, but wait for a year and I bet everyone will look the same.
Stopped watching at that point. I felt really bad for him. Because he knows that if he's wrong (and he's having difficulty coming up with consistent reasons why he's right), a lot of Swedish deaths are on his conscience, and, like any of us in that position, he's desperate for that not to be the case, poor guy.
Those with plus ratings include NHS , Whitty, Valance and Boris
Negatives Raab and Starmer but wait for it:
Way at the bottom
TV journalists and newspapers
And listening to Sky saying that was so amusing
My point about Vietnam is to demonstrate how odd this virus is. I am sure that during November and December infected people returned from Wuhan to Vietnam This was before anyone knew about Covid-19 There was no lockdown and these people would have mingled with the population spreading the virus. If you look at how close people live together in Vietnam how did it not spread? It makes absolutely no sense when you consider how quickly it spread through major cities in Western Europe.
https://resolution.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/20200402-Tripartite_Indemnity_letter.pdf
I assume the detailed poll will be on Sky app shortly
To the best of my knowledge the 'reported deaths related to COVID' is lower than the deaths above normal across all places with compatible fingers at the movement except Sweden.
https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2020/04/21/ny-times-global-coronavirus-death-toll-28000-higher-reported/
Does it? Guy Fawkes was hanged drawn and quartered as far as I was aware.
A parachute slows descent, but does not stop you in mid air. But chop it away and you start accelerating again.
Lockdowns stop exponential growth.
If they'd continued exponential doubling every 3-4 days from 1 week after social distancing was encouraged in Spain (thus the 16th of March), we'd be looking at 1800 times as many infected (instead of 8 times as many). Assume deaths at same rate (despite total oversaturation of health service), and you'd be looking at more than 200 times as many deaths.
Exponential growth, innit.
So, let's look at "social distancing encourage, but not lockdown" (which they had for about 5 days prior to lockdown. Data is scarcer, but it looks like the doubling rate reduced to about every 8 days rather than 3-4 days, which helps - but still gives exponential growth and would result in about 5 times the number of deaths we've so far seen there. Exponential growth is a bastard. Which is why we really want to avoid it, and it can race off bloody quickly if we let it.
The BBC - by miles.
This needs to be input as firmly as possible into TV licence fee discussions / negotiations.
BBC is now in a very tricky place - as implementing over 75s Licence Fee is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible for quite some time.
Lord Hall needs to be held fully accountable on this.
Plus with the new wordpress upgrade, the tag section is hidden.
I mean, she has her eyes open in the photo, yes, but apart from that ... ??
"Confirm Form Resubmission
The page that you're looking for used information that you entered. Returning to that page might cause any action that you took to be repeated. Do you want to continue?"
Anyone else getting that?
The site has stopped working on my usual web browser. I've had to come on VanillaCommunity to post a comment.
Edit... not really, early April
https://www.euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/bulgaria-bans-entry-to-foreigners-from-almost-all-the-world-over-covid-19/
This is not me rambling on. There are studies.
Personally I reckon most people just like fireworks
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/south-korea-to-prepare-for-2nd-wave-of-covid-19-infections
SEOUL (XINHUA) - South Korea's health authorities said on Thursday (April 23) that it will prepare medical resources for a possible second wave of Covid-19 infections this autumn and winter in conjunction with the flu season.
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/australianz/coronavirus-australia-to-keep-borders-shut-for-at-least-three-months
CANBERRA (BLOOMBERG) - Australia will keep its international borders closed for at least three to four months to protect itself from the coronavirus pandemic that continues to deepen in other parts of the world.
Border restrictions would likely be the final measure lifted and would stay in place even if other rules were eased, according to Chief Medical Officer Brendan Murphy, the Australian Broadcasting Corp reported on Thursday (April 23).
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/1037-new-coronavirus-cases-bringing-singapores-total-to-11178
The S11 Dormitory in Punggol remains Singapore's largest active cluster with 2,234 confirmed cases. The cluster alone accounts for almost 20 per cent of all the cases here.
They've already had 20k deaths .....
Once would assume that if Ruritania develops it then Ruritanians would be prioritised.
Implicitly she wants more Brits to die
https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1253332675315724289?s=09