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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What Brits are doing during the lockdown – new Ipsos-MORI poll

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,438
    ydoethur said:
    Not much hope for my Scotland v Australia tickets for the end of June. I knew it was a bit of a gamble with the weather anyway...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    The Fox killer is erhhh making a tit of himself again....problem is this fake news has already been reported as fact.

    https://twitter.com/GoodLawProject/status/1250727025805070342?s=20

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1251074527423062016?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    I bet they are. They’ve been stuck indoors for months because of a disease that probably won’t hurt them if they get it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    HYUFD said:
    Come back into government Andrew Adonis, all is forgiven.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:
    Not much hope for my Scotland v Australia tickets for the end of June. I knew it was a bit of a gamble with the weather anyway...
    I was thinking more about the sheer savagery of that pay cut.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    The problem for teachers vis a vis the practice of the profession of course that we've all had experience of being at school, we all had some teachers who educated us and some who were recycling what they'd read.

    As posted the other day, doctors have replaced priests, and nurse as their vestal virgins. However unlikely that may seem, in some cases! To be fair, the kindest and most empathetic group of people I ever worked with were family planning nurses.

    Modern medicine is a more specialised and remote (in sense of being close to every day life) vocation than teaching, so it is not surprising that lay people find it easier to comment on the teaching industry.

    It is changing slightly with people able to read detailed analysis of their own conditions and treatments online, witness all the amateur epidemiologists stating their way too over confident conclusions on a new disease with rubbish data inputs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:
    I do really enjoy the occasional twitter post on here and put them up myself, but you do rather over-exercise the facility if I may say so, often without comment. I'm sure a poll in which a third said yes and a third said no and a third had no opinion either way is of interest. Actually, scrub that, it really isn't.

    Have a nice day ;)

    xx
    Half the point of this site is polls, I will also continue to post whatever tweets I think of interest
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    Because Ibiza is nicer than Redcar.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    edb said:

    Unfortunately that competition model (we won't renew your contract unless you are excellent) only works if you have a surplus of teachers/doctors/whatever.
    Not the case in this country with our levels of training, pay, and status.

    So all that happens is segregation of those who can afford to get the best vs. those who end up with the rest.
    It can be made to work, but you have to meaningfully change some of the parameters first.

    We already have that segregation in teaching.

    Those that are excellent, are (generally) sought after.

    Those that aren't, (generally) end up in the schools that don't have a choice.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    The absolute state of the clapping on Westminster bridge.

    Does social distancing not apply in Central London ?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    They want to, they dont need to!

    If you really dont understand why some but not all people prefer foreign travel, weather, cost, novelty, food, language, culture, escape, visiting family and friends are amongst the main reasons.

    Lets stop all this puritan nonsense that we can only do the things that are needed for the rest of our lives before it starts. Yes we have to make sacrifices now but people can still enjoy themselves.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    Because Ibiza is nicer than Redcar.
    Redcar has to be nicer than Cumbernauld though...
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    GIN1138 said:

    Denspark said:
    It's hard to believe how rubbish our "journalists" have been through this crisis.

    With COVID-19 there's a huge spectrum of illness from people who don't even know they have it, to people who have little more than a cold, to people who have a bad dose of the Flu but can ride it out at home perfectly fine to people who are very unwell and need to be in hospital but aren't critical to people who are critically unwell and requite intensive care support to people are killed very quickly.

    The Nightingale hospitals were always for people who are very unwell but not critical precisely to free up beds in hospitals for the critically unwell.

    Just as you think the media can't get worse they outdo themselves...
    They are just looking for the Gotcha moment. The ridiculous efforts to achieve this will continue
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    GIN1138 said:

    Denspark said:
    It's hard to believe how rubbish our "journalists" have been through this crisis.

    With COVID-19 there's a huge spectrum of illness from people who don't ven know they have it, to people who have little more than a cold, to people who have a bad dose of the Flu but can ride it out at home perfectly fine to people who are very unwell and need to be in hospital but aren't critical to people who are critically unwell and requite intensive care support to people are killed very quickly.

    The Nightingale hospitals were always for people who are very unwell but not critical precisely to free up beds in hospitals for the critically unwell.

    Just as you think the media can't get worse they outdo themselves...
    They are constantly looking for a gotcha or some evidence that the government is involved in some cover up or massive dishonesty.

    The reality is the NHS has massively expanded capacity and doing the best it can against a disease that has no cure or real effective treatment plan. But we also know that ventilators aren't a magic wand, oldies can't survive them and even middle aged people don't respond to them in the way is typically found with normal pneumonia.

    All the media visits to ICU departments have shown busy, but calm and organized staff doing their best. No evidence of a system crash as in Italy, Spain or New York. And complaints from front line staff doesn't suggest there is a cover up here either. Logistics of PPE resupplies is what is raised.

    We have a set procedure for declaring deaths in hospitals and in the community, which the government are following and all the data is made available as quickly as possible.

    Its all rather "dull" and takes time to process all the paperwork to ensure everything is done properly, but that is the truth.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    They want to, they dont need to!

    If you really dont understand why some but not all people prefer foreign travel, weather, cost, novelty, food, language, culture, escape, visiting family and friends are amongst the main reasons.

    Lets stop all this puritan nonsense that we can only do the things that are needed for the rest of our lives before it starts. Yes we have to make sacrifices now but people can still enjoy themselves.
    Of course but I suspect mass tourist travel abroad may yet be some way off. Aiurlines have already warned that if and when it is able to resume stringent health requirements could also raise the cost of flights significantly. The young - like the rest of us - are going to have to come to terms for a while with a new normal.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,438
    Nigelb said:

    Floater said:

    I see the Chinese have found a couple more deaths behind the sofa.............

    As has, or will, every other country.

    By itself, it casts no light on the accuracy or otherwise of their figures.
    They revised up the number by exactly 50% (except for half a person). The revision doesn't come from counting actual dead people, but has been decided on by a meeting. It's a made-up number.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:
    Come back into government Andrew Adonis, all is forgiven.
    Hmmm. Some of us remember his time in Education where he was Dominic Cummings with better dress sense...

    *grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Pulpstar said:

    The absolute state of the clapping on Westminster bridge.

    Does social distancing not apply in Central London ?

    Its not like CV is really widespread in London or anything...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2020
    Amazingly, this is on-topic:

    I realise I'm casting pearls before swine, but if you've followed my tips so far you'll have been treated to a superb Lucia di Lammermoor starring Anna Netrebko and an especially good Mariusz Kwiecien, a magnificent Il Barbiere di Siviglia with Joyce DiDinato, a magisterial Macbeth with Anna Netrebko absolutely nailing the part of Lady Macbeth, and a fantastic Don Pasquale again with Anna Netrebko outstanding in a very different role. All those from the Met's daily free streaming. Also on the list has been Garsington's Il Nozze di Figaro, available anytime and a beautifully intelligent production with some lovely performances by less well-known singers.

    Today's gem (available until 10.30pm this evening UK time) is again from the Met, and should be a real hoot. It is Rossini's Comte Ory, a comic opera which doesn't take itself too seriously but is great escapist fun. Again a stellar cast: Juan Diego Flórez, Diana Damrau, and Joyce DiDonato.

    https://metoperafree.brightcove.services/?videoId=6146887488001
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    Public Health England says the public don't need to wear face masks. Sadiq Khan thinks they should.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sadiq-khan-calls-for-everyone-to-wear-face-masks-5zb8hw09w
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    An exciting moment for me! Two large parcels have arrived from my son. I asked him to send me books and clothes. What choices will he have made?

    Later ......
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    How many would do so if they had to have a 14 day quarantine on their return.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I see Covid data wranglers are now down to putting trend lines through second derivate datasets (day on day change of the multiplication factor of the daily death rate change) to show what they want to show.

    It is impressive stuff.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2020
    "We can’t remove Huawei kit until 2023, admits BT

    Equipment made by Huawei will remain in the most sensitive parts of EE’s mobile phone network for longer than had been expected, in a delay that the company blames on government." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/we-cant-remove-huawei-kit-until-2023-admits-bt-zxjvwwxbr
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    So a v. difficult to follow press conference in Spain. The government seems to be suggesting that the previous figures were not accurate with different Communities counting in different ways. It will take some time to get more accurate figures available. I suspect he is avoiding giving some pretty bad news....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    Because Ibiza is nicer than Redcar.
    It's warmer
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Facebook (FB) is canceling all of its planned physical events with 50 or more people through June 2021

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/16/tech/facebook-events-coronavirus/index.html
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    I wouldn't say Robert Peston, quoted by Riddich, has a scoop, but he does have valid questions. Exactly what clinical purpose do the field hospitals serve and are they as useful as they could be in relieving pressure on existing services?

    My guess, beyond the PR angle which definitely is a thing, is that they exist as dumping grounds for when the health system breaks. Which thank goodness, it hasn't yet. But politicians who have a rare good news story are talking them up into something grander.
    On that, Nicola Sturgeon was at pains to stress she hoped the field hospital in Glasgow is never needed.
    That is everyone's hope, Nicola. Not worth saying.

    The fear was always that they wouldn't be enough. And anybody who says it was not money well spent is an idiot.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    felix said:

    So a v. difficult to follow press conference in Spain. The government seems to be suggesting that the previous figures were not accurate with different Communities counting in different ways. It will take some time to get more accurate figures available. I suspect he is avoiding giving some pretty bad news....

    Spain already has the highest official death rate of any country other than Belgium. If that was an understatement...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Coronavirus: world's biggest trial of drug to treat Covid-19 begins in UK

    The world’s biggest trial of drugs to treat Covid-19 patients has been set up in the UK at unprecedented speed, and hopes to have some answers within weeks.

    The Recovery trial has recruited over 5,000 patients in 165 NHS hospitals around the UK in a month, ahead of similar trials in the US and Europe, which have a few hundred.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/world-biggest-drug-trial-covid-19-uk
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    Because Ibiza is nicer than Redcar.
    Not so much when it is full of pissed up people from Redcar.....
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    I'm sure the journalist desperately want Raab to set out the timelines for lockdown to be eased. It will write the headlines for them. Even better, when they make adjustments to it, they can scream 'U-turn', 'Chaos in government' and 'You don't know what you're doing.'
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    Because Ibiza is nicer than Redcar.
    There are more places to visit in the UK than Redcar.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    I see Germany is going down the same route as us with a voluntary contact tracing app. I know they are even more privacy focused than the UK, but you need this to be mandatory both from the tracing aspect and the self-isolation.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Andy_JS said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    Because Ibiza is nicer than Redcar.
    There are more places to visit in the UK than Redcar.
    Hartlepool?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Amazingly, this is on-topic:

    I realise I'm casting pearls before swine, but if you've followed my tips so far you'll have been treated to a superb Lucia di Lammermoor starring Anna Netrebko and an especially good Mariusz Kwiecien, a magnificent Il Barbiere di Siviglia with Joyce DiDinato, a magisterial Macbeth with Anna Netrebko absolutely nailing the part of Lady Macbeth, and a fantastic Don Pasquale again with Anna Netrebko outstanding in a very different role. All those from the Met's daily free streaming. Also on the list has been Garsington's Il Nozze di Figaro, available anytime and a beautifully intelligent production with some lovely performances by less well-known singers.

    Today's gem (available until 10.30pm this evening UK time) is again from the Met, and should be a real hoot. It is Rossini's Comte Ory, a comic opera which doesn't take itself too seriously but is great escapist fun. Again a stellar cast: Juan Diego Flórez, Diana Damrau, and Joyce DiDonato.

    https://metoperafree.brightcove.services/?videoId=6146887488001

    The latest NT offering on youtube is Treasure Island, which is fun. Kids should enjoy it.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Pulpstar said:

    The absolute state of the clapping on Westminster bridge.

    Does social distancing not apply in Central London ?

    Just seen that and its utterly ***king shocking. WTF are the police doing.

    The Met should be hammered over such stupid.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    I see Germany is going down the same route as us with a voluntary contact tracing app. I know they are even more privacy focused than the UK, but you need this to be mandatory both from the tracing aspect and the self-isolation.

    Just need to call it the "Save the NHS" app here. People will lap it up. I'll be downloading and using it till I've got a vaccine at which point I'll delete it.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    CD13 said:

    I'm sure the journalist desperately want Raab to set out the timelines for lockdown to be eased. It will write the headlines for them. Even better, when they make adjustments to it, they can scream 'U-turn', 'Chaos in government' and 'You don't know what you're doing.'

    They are giving the wrong answer imo - we cant talk about it because then the public wont obey lockdown is a poor choice.

    Simply say once we have widespread serology testing we will have better answers than we can possibly have now, for coming out of lockdown. Its a point they made near the start of the crisis but doesnt get given as a direct answer to demands to an ending lockdown plan now.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,677
    edited April 2020
    A paralegal has been fired for saying that Boris Johnson deserved to contract COVID-19.

    Sheila Oakes, who is also the Mayor of Heanor, in Derbyshire, posted on Facebook last week that "he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's [sic] we've ever had".

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/paralegal-fired-celebrating-bojos-infection

    Please note the footnotes, a few people think I wrote the article.
  • DensparkDenspark Posts: 68

    Coronavirus: world's biggest trial of drug to treat Covid-19 begins in UK

    The world’s biggest trial of drugs to treat Covid-19 patients has been set up in the UK at unprecedented speed, and hopes to have some answers within weeks.

    The Recovery trial has recruited over 5,000 patients in 165 NHS hospitals around the UK in a month, ahead of similar trials in the US and Europe, which have a few hundred.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/world-biggest-drug-trial-covid-19-uk


    So in a few weeks the guardian et al can run hysterical stories about the government playing russian roulette with patients lives in "secret experiments"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1251089418766684161?s=20

    From memory of a kid, the paints for those bastards cost a fortune.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    So a v. difficult to follow press conference in Spain. The government seems to be suggesting that the previous figures were not accurate with different Communities counting in different ways. It will take some time to get more accurate figures available. I suspect he is avoiding giving some pretty bad news....

    Spain already has the highest official death rate of any country other than Belgium. If that was an understatement...
    Well the latest table now shows over 5000 more cases today and 585 more deaths. The details for Communities is only showing numbers of cases in hospitals and numbers of deaths. Not sure why but it makes comparisons with previous data quite difficult. I think it may be a combination of testing problems and reporting problems. Spain has among the worst figures in the world and changing the counting method now seems a sub-optimal approach at besT
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited April 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    An exciting moment for me! Two large parcels have arrived from my son. I asked him to send me books and clothes. What choices will he have made?

    Later ......

    The Little Miss collection, War and Peace, and three dozen Siren Suits :-D .

    And there's nothing you can do for at least a couple of months !

    We could have a sweepstake here.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    felix said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    They want to, they dont need to!

    If you really dont understand why some but not all people prefer foreign travel, weather, cost, novelty, food, language, culture, escape, visiting family and friends are amongst the main reasons.

    Lets stop all this puritan nonsense that we can only do the things that are needed for the rest of our lives before it starts. Yes we have to make sacrifices now but people can still enjoy themselves.
    Of course but I suspect mass tourist travel abroad may yet be some way off. Aiurlines have already warned that if and when it is able to resume stringent health requirements could also raise the cost of flights significantly. The young - like the rest of us - are going to have to come to terms for a while with a new normal.
    Reasons like that are exactly the reason why we won't have it. There will be millions and millions of people which have all their holidays they've not used eager to head to the Costa del Sol or the like at the earliest opportunity.

    That would be an utter disaster, and we have to save ourselves from ourselves.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    The thing with masks is, yes they're beneficial, and yes, we'd wear them on public transport, but what about when we're in the office, at a conference, in a pub?

    Avoid all these barbarous pre-internet dens of infection.

    However you can talk through masks - normally (regardless of covid19) if you get a cold in Japan, you wear a mask all day at the office. You'd only take it off for eating or drinking, or smoking which is done outside.

    PS. The dark side of this is that it was used as a virtue signal that you're working even though you're kind of sick, which is a really bad thing to be doing since the mask can only do so much.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited April 2020
    I shouldn't criticise people for wanting to go abroad because I was planning a train journey to Amsterdam from St Pancras on the new direct service.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    felix said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    They want to, they dont need to!

    If you really dont understand why some but not all people prefer foreign travel, weather, cost, novelty, food, language, culture, escape, visiting family and friends are amongst the main reasons.

    Lets stop all this puritan nonsense that we can only do the things that are needed for the rest of our lives before it starts. Yes we have to make sacrifices now but people can still enjoy themselves.
    Of course but I suspect mass tourist travel abroad may yet be some way off. Aiurlines have already warned that if and when it is able to resume stringent health requirements could also raise the cost of flights significantly. The young - like the rest of us - are going to have to come to terms for a while with a new normal.
    Reasons like that are exactly the reason why we won't have it. There will be millions and millions of people which have all their holidays they've not used eager to head to the Costa del Sol or the like at the earliest opportunity.

    That would be an utter disaster, and we have to save ourselves from ourselves.
    Where did a big vector of imported CV come from....skiing holidays...caught crammed into apres ski bars...the worst possible idea is to let a load of people go off to Ayia Napa, Ibiza, etc and do the same again.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Andy_JS said:

    I shouldn't criticise people for wanting to go abroad because I was planning a train journey to Amsterdam from St Pancras on the new direct service.

    I want to do all manner of things. But we're going to have to save ourselves from ourselves for a while.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Andy_JS said:

    I shouldn't criticise people for wanting to go abroad because I was planning a train journey to Amsterdam from St Pancras on the new direct service.

    I did it that way round (the return trip hadn't opened).

    A strange one - the train does start to feel a bit more like a plane after those distances.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Public Health England says the public don't need to wear face masks. Sadiq Khan thinks they should.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sadiq-khan-calls-for-everyone-to-wear-face-masks-5zb8hw09w

    Whilst I am of the view that Sadiq is congenitally useless, that's not what he said.

    First paragraph:

    "Face masks should be worn by everyone using public transport, Sadiq Khan has urged in a letter to the transport secretary."

    Perhaps we need a Bank Holiday to celebrate shitty journalism?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.

    Furthermore, I can't remember the exact stat, but in the early weeks of this, the average age of those found to be infected in Germany was ~20 years younger than places like Italy.

    They are still doing really well (although another 300 death day reported today), but the initial outbreak was definitely concentrated among younger people.

    Then their quick testing probably helped stop an Italy situation, where it seems youngsters went for their weekend meal with nonna, and gave it to them.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    felix said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    They want to, they dont need to!

    If you really dont understand why some but not all people prefer foreign travel, weather, cost, novelty, food, language, culture, escape, visiting family and friends are amongst the main reasons.

    Lets stop all this puritan nonsense that we can only do the things that are needed for the rest of our lives before it starts. Yes we have to make sacrifices now but people can still enjoy themselves.
    Of course but I suspect mass tourist travel abroad may yet be some way off. Aiurlines have already warned that if and when it is able to resume stringent health requirements could also raise the cost of flights significantly. The young - like the rest of us - are going to have to come to terms for a while with a new normal.
    Reasons like that are exactly the reason why we won't have it. There will be millions and millions of people which have all their holidays they've not used eager to head to the Costa del Sol or the like at the earliest opportunity.

    That would be an utter disaster, and we have to save ourselves from ourselves.

    The thing with masks is, yes they're beneficial, and yes, we'd wear them on public transport, but what about when we're in the office, at a conference, in a pub?

    Avoid all these barbarous pre-internet dens of infection.

    However you can talk through masks - normally (regardless of covid19) if you get a cold in Japan, you wear a mask all day at the office. You'd only take it off for eating or drinking, or smoking which is done outside.

    PS. The dark side of this is that it was used as a virtue signal that you're working even though you're kind of sick, which is a really bad thing to be doing since the mask can only do so much.
    Sadiq Khan was on the news earlier saying wearing a mask on the tube stops you giving it to everyone else. Not that there is some weak evidence that it may reduce your chances of giving it to someone else slightly.

    The assumption of safety from wearing a mask is one of the reasons the WHO guides against them - and it will be a hard assumption to stop. A high proportion of the pedestrians who make close to no effort to socially distance in London are mask wearers.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370
    Andy_JS said:

    Public Health England says the public don't need to wear face masks. Sadiq Khan thinks they should.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sadiq-khan-calls-for-everyone-to-wear-face-masks-5zb8hw09w

    If we are still under lockdown this time next year, and the London mayoral election goes ahead with all the main party candidates supporting the lockdown and huge unemployment in London, it could be a good opportunity for independent candidates and extremist parties.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    A paralegal has been fired for saying that Boris Johnson deserved to contract COVID-19.

    Sheila Oakes, who is also the Mayor of Heanor, in Derbyshire, posted on Facebook last week that "he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's [sic] we've ever had".

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/paralegal-fired-celebrating-bojos-infection

    Please note the footnotes, a few people think I wrote the article.

    I hate people who put in rogue apostrophe's.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1251089418766684161?s=20

    From memory of a kid, the paints for those bastards cost a fortune.

    Not necessarily. They do sell 'starter packs' or similar which include small pots of adhesive and acrylic paint of the main colours and some details. Which may well be just right in the current situation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Andy_JS said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
    Why do they need to go abroad in particular?
    Because Ibiza is nicer than Redcar.
    There are more places to visit in the UK than Redcar.
    Hartlepool?
    Oh yes, and West Hartlepool too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    A paralegal has been fired for saying that Boris Johnson deserved to contract COVID-19.

    Sheila Oakes, who is also the Mayor of Heanor, in Derbyshire, posted on Facebook last week that "he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's [sic] we've ever had".

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/paralegal-fired-celebrating-bojos-infection

    Please note the footnotes, a few people think I wrote the article.

    This was mentioned about 58 threads ago. Yesterday was it?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    A paralegal has been fired for saying that Boris Johnson deserved to contract COVID-19.

    Sheila Oakes, who is also the Mayor of Heanor, in Derbyshire, posted on Facebook last week that "he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's [sic] we've ever had".

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/paralegal-fired-celebrating-bojos-infection

    Please note the footnotes, a few people think I wrote the article.

    I am sure none of us believe that.

    You are a lot of things, @TSE, but more than a week behind the BBC is not one of them.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52224325
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    He’s probably right isn’t he? What difference would it really make? There’s nearly 70m of us.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    felix said:

    So a v. difficult to follow press conference in Spain. The government seems to be suggesting that the previous figures were not accurate with different Communities counting in different ways. It will take some time to get more accurate figures available. I suspect he is avoiding giving some pretty bad news....

    Update: Today's data changed because one [unnamed] Community has been giving the wrong data. Expect figures to change over the next few days. WTF!
  • MattW said:

    A paralegal has been fired for saying that Boris Johnson deserved to contract COVID-19.

    Sheila Oakes, who is also the Mayor of Heanor, in Derbyshire, posted on Facebook last week that "he completely deserves this and he is one of the worst PM's [sic] we've ever had".

    https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/paralegal-fired-celebrating-bojos-infection

    Please note the footnotes, a few people think I wrote the article.

    I am sure none of us believe that.

    You are a lot of things, @TSE, but more than a week behind the BBC is not one of them.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52224325
    Oh, ROF have let me down.

    TBF some days I struggle to know what day and month it is thanks to lockdown.

    It feels like one long bank holiday weekend.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1251089418766684161?s=20

    From memory of a kid, the paints for those bastards cost a fortune.

    Vallejo 12ml bottles are £2.55 at emodels.

    You've got to airbrush obviously. Paint applied with the 'hairy stick' looks like shit garbage.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    ..

    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.

    Good treatment logically has an effect on the mortality rate. We shouldn't necessarily reflect a single Infection/Fatality Rate everywhere. However if you want to keep the death toll down you need to prevent infections. Absent a vaccine that means lockdown, lots of testing and the effective isolation of the infected . There aren't any shortcuts here.
  • edbedb Posts: 66



    We already have that segregation in teaching.

    Those that are excellent, are (generally) sought after.

    Those that aren't, (generally) end up in the schools that don't have a choice.

    Not sure it works very efficiently as you think. You can't really 'seek after' a good individual teacher. And there are many frictions that make teachers stay where they are, or move for reasons other the opportunity to teach the richest kids.

    Also, needless to say, the situation you describe does not lend itself to good outcomes for even above-median kids.

    Mrs B's school (league table-topping private girls school) is finding it hard to even get applicants for some posts and they pay well above average.
    Meanwhile one of my neighbours chooses to teach in a sink school out of quite an interesting sense of moral duty.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752

    Personally, I think the increased site traffic is down to the Moth du Jour feature....

    Speaking of which: Moth du Jour: Muslin Moth (male - the females are white)


    Well. it's kept me coming back....
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    He’s probably right isn’t he? What difference would it really make? There’s nearly 70m of us.
    Yes, but we've all been self-isolating for three weeks and have either fallen ill and been hospitalised or not. The 15,000 new people, well who knows?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    MattW said:

    Social Distancing and Stay Home Save Lives seems not to be as important as we are being told it is ... time for some hard questions in the press coverage.

    And Amanda 'it's all due to 5G' Holden of all people.

    https://twitter.com/MPSHounslow/status/1250878555816448007

    Even before the virus, it was generally accepted that normal rules are suspended when a C list celebrity is involved. Hard habit to break.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    So why do we need to be locked down minister? If tipping more virus into the mix doesn't make a difference then neither would domestic UK people...

    I know, its stupid. But he said it.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620

    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    He’s probably right isn’t he? What difference would it really make? There’s nearly 70m of us.
    It means that the country will be continually reinfected.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Public Health England says the public don't need to wear face masks. Sadiq Khan thinks they should.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sadiq-khan-calls-for-everyone-to-wear-face-masks-5zb8hw09w

    Whilst I am of the view that Sadiq is congenitally useless, that's not what he said.

    First paragraph:

    "Face masks should be worn by everyone using public transport, Sadiq Khan has urged in a letter to the transport secretary."

    Perhaps we need a Bank Holiday to celebrate shitty journalism?
    We'd need Bank Holiweek to do it justice.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752

    Re Nightingale hospital. They said from the very start it was to take the less serious patients. No cover up. It was to free up capacity for really serious cases in hospitals.

    This is the same approach as China and now lots of western countries. Don't block your hospital s up with people who just need oxygen, keep an eye on them and if they do go downhill, get them to a proper facility asap.

    That was my understanding too.

    Lesley Riddoch is, frankly, just a boor always sniping away at anything which emanates from south of the border.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    felix said:

    So a v. difficult to follow press conference in Spain. The government seems to be suggesting that the previous figures were not accurate with different Communities counting in different ways. It will take some time to get more accurate figures available. I suspect he is avoiding giving some pretty bad news....

    Yebbut their government took an important decision based on that flawed data
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    At the moment, I don't think it makes a massive difference. Going forward, we are going to need a serious plan.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,833

    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    He’s probably right isn’t he? What difference would it really make? There’s nearly 70m of us.
    It means that the country will be continually reinfected.
    Who are these 15,000 people a week? We know there is a steady stream of returning nationals - but who else? Hard to see why we are having anyone arrive at the moment.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    edited April 2020

    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.

    Furthermore, I can't remember the exact stat, but in the early weeks of this, the average age of those found to be infected in Germany was ~20 years younger than places like Italy.

    They are still doing really well (although another 300 death day reported today), but the initial outbreak was definitely concentrated among younger people.

    Then their quick testing probably helped stop an Italy situation, where it seems youngsters went for their weekend meal with nonna, and gave it to them.
    Their Mortality rate of 2.9% compares with ours of 13.3%

    We have 202 deaths per Million population Germany has 49 per Million
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited April 2020
    Denspark said:
    The thing that depressed me about the Peston tweet was the responses to it ... a small minority of people, mostly doctors, pointing out that it all sounded pretty sensible - not just because of the services a field hospital could be expected to provide, but also the fact you don't want to be shuttling around very sick patients between hospitals - but the vast majority seemed convinced that either the criteria had been set impossibly high to keep the Nightingales largely empty and artificially bump up their apparent success rate (because the Nightingales are all a useless feel-good propaganda conspiracy to hide failings elsewhere and, according to some, to shovel money towards mysterious Abu Dhabi-based Tory donors) or alternatively the Nightingales are a set of death camps constructed to enforce the Tory genocide and everyone sent there is going to die (I'm not sure these respondents had read or understand the criteria).

    There didn't even seem to be anybody making the prattish-but-not-entirely-loopy argument that the excess capacity was a waste of money. There was the odd SNP booster proudly proclaiming that Scotland wasn't making the same mistakes as the Westminster government, and Nicola had ensured that the Glasgow version wouldn't just be a COVID-focused field hospital but instead a fully-functional full-blown hospital with all specialist departments and kit necessary to treat anyone with any condition...

    For those who aren't aware of her, Lesley Riddoch (not sure why she isn't blue-ticked on Twitter) is a fairly well-known journalist-with-Opinions and these days a bit of a small-scale think-tanker. Her response to Peston was one of the saner ones.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Denspark said:
    The thing that depressed me about the Peston tweet was the responses to it ... a small minority of people, mostly doctors, pointing out that it all sounded pretty sensible - not just because of the services a field hospital could be expected to provide, but also the fact you don't want to be shuttling around very sick patients between hospitals - but the vast majority seemed convinced that either the criteria had been set impossibly high to keep the Nightingales largely empty and artificially bump up their apparent success rate (because the Nightingales are all a useless feel-good propaganda conspiracy to hide failings elsewhere and, according to some, to shovel money towards mysterious Abu Dhabi-based Tory donors) or alternatively the Nightingales are a set of death camps constructed to enforce the Tory genocide and everyone sent there is going to die (I'm not sure these respondents had read or understand the criteria).

    There didn't even seem to be anybody making the prattish-but-not-entirely-loopy argument that the excess capacity was a waste of money. There was the odd SNP booster proudly proclaiming that Scotland wasn't making the same mistakes as the Westminster government, and Nicola had ensured that the Glasgow version wouldn't just be a COVID-focused field hospital but instead a fully-functional full-blown hospital with all specialist departments and kit necessary to treat anyone with any condition...

    For those who aren't aware of her, Lesley Riddoch (not sure why she isn't blue-ticked on Twitter) is a fairly well-known journalist-with-Opinions and these days a bit of a small-scale think-tanker. Her response to Peston was one of the saner ones.
    On the other hand the responses to Lesley mostly seem to be pointing out what was said here.
  • Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    He’s probably right isn’t he? What difference would it really make? There’s nearly 70m of us.
    It means that the country will be continually reinfected.
    Who are these 15,000 people a week? We know there is a steady stream of returning nationals - but who else? Hard to see why we are having anyone arrive at the moment.
    Romanian fruit harvesters?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.

    Furthermore, I can't remember the exact stat, but in the early weeks of this, the average age of those found to be infected in Germany was ~20 years younger than places like Italy.

    They are still doing really well (although another 300 death day reported today), but the initial outbreak was definitely concentrated among younger people.

    Then their quick testing probably helped stop an Italy situation, where it seems youngsters went for their weekend meal with nonna, and gave it to them.
    Their Mortality rate of 2.9% compares with ours of 13.3%.
    Not mortality rate, Case Fatality Rate. Nobody knows the true mortality rates at the moment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMtzWVTPmLI
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601

    MattW said:

    Social Distancing and Stay Home Save Lives seems not to be as important as we are being told it is ... time for some hard questions in the press coverage.

    And Amanda 'it's all due to 5G' Holden of all people.

    https://twitter.com/MPSHounslow/status/1250878555816448007

    Even before the virus, it was generally accepted that normal rules are suspended when a C list celebrity is involved. Hard habit to break.
    This is the second photo I've seen today of a London police force seemingly not practising social distancing rules.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    He’s probably right isn’t he? What difference would it really make? There’s nearly 70m of us.
    It means that the country will be continually reinfected.
    Who are these 15,000 people a week? We know there is a steady stream of returning nationals - but who else? Hard to see why we are having anyone arrive at the moment.
    You can be sure that the government doesn't know and doesn't care.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Re Nightingale hospital. They said from the very start it was to take the less serious patients. No cover up. It was to free up capacity for really serious cases in hospitals.

    This is the same approach as China and now lots of western countries. Don't block your hospital s up with people who just need oxygen, keep an eye on them and if they do go downhill, get them to a proper facility asap.

    Lesley Riddoch is, frankly, just a boor always sniping away at anything which emanates from south of the border.
    A Dr tweets:

    https://twitter.com/DrRJSimpson/status/1251064667738341376?s=20
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    So why do we need to be locked down minister? If tipping more virus into the mix doesn't make a difference then neither would domestic UK people...

    I know, its stupid. But he said it.
    He is basing his response and the policy on what the medical professionals have advised the Government to do.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    ydoethur said:

    I think you are confusing 'education, by the teaching profession' with 'teaching' as an activity. The two are somewhat different. When I am teaching someone to play the organ my approach is altogether different from when I am teaching 30 Year 8s about the creation of British colonies in North America. What causes the problem - and it is a massive problem - is that it appears unless you have actually done it, people don't seem to realise what is or isn't involved and what is or isn't possible. And it is those people who have no understanding of it are making the decisions, and usually boasting about how the people who do understand it are pig ignorant. And then when their schemes are inevitably an utter catastrophe, they blame the very people who foresaw exactly what would happen!

    As an aside, while @Cyclefree makes a good point about producer interest, it continues to baffle me that we defer endlessly to doctors and nurses and bait teachers and teaching staff.

    Good post. On your last question, I think it is because most people have contact with schools in the way they do not with, say, bank dealing floors, air traffic control rooms, ICU wards etc. And teaching is an easy activity to visualize. Upshot is millions of armchair experts. Must be frustrating for you.

    OTOH, when discussing education reform, teachers themselves will have wildly different views and therefore there is no reason IMO to overly defer to somebody in such a debate because they happen to be a teacher. For example, I'm not going to relinquish my opposition to private schools because you come along and tell me it won't work.

    The same applies to Doctors. If I genuinely think, having given the matter some fulsome grey matter, that the NHS is not the way to arrange health care, and we'd be better with a decentralized insurance model, then I am not about to drop that simply because @Foxy disagrees.

    And it works the other way too. I'm a Chartered Accountant and I also spent years trading in the City, I know my onions when it comes to banking and finance, nevertheless I do not expect this to massively freight my views on, say, the causes of the 08 crash. Or I DO expect it, rather, it would be lovely, but I am always disappointed because it doesn't happen and nor should it.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.

    We established yesterday there is no internationally recognised standard of what constitutues a Corona deal

    Different countries and different doctors will have different standards and analyses.

    All comparisons are surely therefore misleading. And making policy based on this data surely very risky
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Andy_JS said:

    MattW said:

    Social Distancing and Stay Home Save Lives seems not to be as important as we are being told it is ... time for some hard questions in the press coverage.

    And Amanda 'it's all due to 5G' Holden of all people.

    https://twitter.com/MPSHounslow/status/1250878555816448007

    Even before the virus, it was generally accepted that normal rules are suspended when a C list celebrity is involved. Hard habit to break.
    This is the second photo I've seen today of a London police force seemingly not practising social distancing rules.
    Rules are for others.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Some 15,000 people are flying into the UK without coronavirus tests every day, it has emerged.

    Ministers have refused to close down airports altogether since the crisis began despite advising Britons against non-essential travel.

    But Health Secretary Matt Hancock insisted the flows into the country will make no significant difference, as there is already so much transmission."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229079/15-000-people-day-flying-UK-without-coronavirus-tests.html

    He’s probably right isn’t he? What difference would it really make? There’s nearly 70m of us.
    It means that the country will be continually reinfected.
    Who are these 15,000 people a week? We know there is a steady stream of returning nationals - but who else? Hard to see why we are having anyone arrive at the moment.
    You can be sure that the government doesn't know and doesn't care.
    We should at the very least introduce a visa system for everyone entering the UK. On the fruit pickers, I expect the labour could have been found domestically.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.

    Furthermore, I can't remember the exact stat, but in the early weeks of this, the average age of those found to be infected in Germany was ~20 years younger than places like Italy.

    They are still doing really well (although another 300 death day reported today), but the initial outbreak was definitely concentrated among younger people.

    Then their quick testing probably helped stop an Italy situation, where it seems youngsters went for their weekend meal with nonna, and gave it to them.
    Their Mortality rate of 2.9% compares with ours of 13.3%.
    Not mortality rate, Case Fatality Rate. Nobody knows the true mortality rates at the moment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMtzWVTPmLI
    We know the mortality rate per million population and ours is 4 times higher than theirs
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.

    Furthermore, I can't remember the exact stat, but in the early weeks of this, the average age of those found to be infected in Germany was ~20 years younger than places like Italy.

    They are still doing really well (although another 300 death day reported today), but the initial outbreak was definitely concentrated among younger people.

    Then their quick testing probably helped stop an Italy situation, where it seems youngsters went for their weekend meal with nonna, and gave it to them.
    Their Mortality rate of 2.9% compares with ours of 13.3%.
    Not mortality rate, Case Fatality Rate. Nobody knows the true mortality rates at the moment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMtzWVTPmLI
    We know the mortality rate per million population and ours is 4 times higher than theirs
    No we don't.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Perhaps this has already been discussed, but I was surprised to see photos of NHS workers during the "clap for carers" event, making no attempt at distancing themselves from their colleagues.

    Curious to know why. Because they can't distance themselves from patients, and feel they have so little protection that it's pointless distancing themselves from colleagues? Or why?

    NHS workers must be among those with the highest risk of being infected, perhaps asymptomatically.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    Andy_JS said:

    MattW said:

    Social Distancing and Stay Home Save Lives seems not to be as important as we are being told it is ... time for some hard questions in the press coverage.

    And Amanda 'it's all due to 5G' Holden of all people.

    https://twitter.com/MPSHounslow/status/1250878555816448007

    Even before the virus, it was generally accepted that normal rules are suspended when a C list celebrity is involved. Hard habit to break.
    This is the second photo I've seen today of a London police force seemingly not practising social distancing rules.
    Rules are for others.
    Frequent flyers and c list celebs are simply better than us Rich.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    When the lockdown started I knew I was a likely victim of Covid 19 - 76 year old male, hypertension, living alone. Made a will a few years ago but realised there was nobody left alive who had known me all those years. So I started to write my memoirs - or rather A Memoir. It proved to be extremely interesting in the sense of what I could remember and what I could not. I never kept a diary. Some of my public life was on the record but not the private side. I have now finished the work although it can be added to when another memory occurs. But the best bit is I am still here - and no symptoms.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708

    An interesting point from the Guardian live blog:

    The Covid-19 mortality rate in Germany, which had drawn a lot of attention in the early phase of the pandemic, has meanwhile increased to 2.9%.

    That suggests that the early anomaly whereby Germany seemed to have an extremely low mortality rate compared with other countries was a reflection of earlier testing rather than a real difference in outcomes.

    Furthermore, I can't remember the exact stat, but in the early weeks of this, the average age of those found to be infected in Germany was ~20 years younger than places like Italy.

    They are still doing really well (although another 300 death day reported today), but the initial outbreak was definitely concentrated among younger people.

    Then their quick testing probably helped stop an Italy situation, where it seems youngsters went for their weekend meal with nonna, and gave it to them.
    Their Mortality rate of 2.9% compares with ours of 13.3%.
    Not mortality rate, Case Fatality Rate. Nobody knows the true mortality rates at the moment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMtzWVTPmLI
    We know the mortality rate per million population and ours is 4 times higher than theirs
    That would only be true if the same representative percentage of every population got the virus at the same time, which clearly isn’t the case.
This discussion has been closed.