Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What Brits are doing during the lockdown – new Ipsos-MORI poll

135678

Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Yes, why aren't the police going in with batons and pepper spray ?
    Inexplicable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    Nigelb said:

    SandraMc said:

    Morning everyone. Did anyone watch the quiz show "Pointless" yesterday? The contestants included two female English teachers in their 20s. There was a round on Margaret Thatcher and they both giggled and said they didn't know any of the answers because they were both "really young when she was around". Richard Osman lost his cool and told them that they were both teachers and she was one of the most important figures of the 20th century so maybe they should read up about her. The audience applauded this.

    If they were in their twenties, they weren’t even born when she was PM.
    And they are a English, not history teachers.

    Other than her brief reintroduction of ‘frit’ to common usage, and an extremely simple example of a rhetorical triplet, did she have any great influence on the language ?
    Are you saying that a teacher is not expected to have any general knowledge outside his/her sphere of teaching?
    I’m saying that Thatcher might be rather less relevant to those who didn’t live through her premiership than those who did can understand.
    The idea that people should only know about what is “relevant” to them is one of the most stupid ideas, if it can even be called that, around.
    Of course.
    But given the vast breadth of knowledge to choose from, I can quite understand that not everyone might choose to bone up on a twentieth century British PM.
    Boning up on Mrs Thatcher is an unfortunate thought.........
    Yes, apologies for not spotting that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Teaching is one of those topics that attracts armchair experts. The experience of a parent or pupil gives you remarkably little insight into what teaching is really like.

    I am 🤷‍♂️
    Right, sorry. I haven't been a teacher.

    Guess I should learn to STFU then and leave it to them.
    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.
    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:

    Daily routine (when not working):

    Wake up, do exercises, spend an hour doing Hungarian translation exercises, do chores as instructed by higher powers, lunch, spend time in the garden or write, go for a walk, dinner, talk, listen to music or watch TV. Spending more time online is fitted in throughout this.

    That's nice.

    I'm working harder than I ever have before during this - I'm up at 5am and in bed by 11pm and either working or looking after my child the whole time in between (she is currently distracted by Milkshake).

    My wife is the same.
    I'm impressed. To be honest I am almost the exact opposite. I am finding concentration very difficult and don't even get on with the work I have to do. My productivity isn't even a quarter of what it is in normal times. I am spending a lot of time walking and running but find I don't even have the concentration span for books. I fear it is indicative of depression. I am finding I am spending a lot of time on PB, probably too much to be honest, but it is a comfort. I really cannot wait for this to be over but the financial implications will be with me for a long time.
    Where my partner and I benefit enormously now is that we have been through one life-changing disaster, so this is not new territory. What you learn is to put the past to one side as much as you can and focus on your goals for the future.

    My partner made a full recovery in part because he wasted little time with regret and from a very early stage put all his energies into his recovery. In this respect he is inspirational. We are all suffering a catastrophe and how we recover from it will depend on what we do in the coming weeks and months.

    It’s ok to not be ok. None of us are ok. And if you fear you are depressed, get the professional help you need. Just asking for it is a major step forward. However, it may well be that your state of mind now reflects that you understand the future more clearly than many. This is not a holiday, but limbo, an ante-chamber to purgatory. Far too few really understand that yet.

    Right now there are limited things we can do, but never let a crisis go to waste. Now is a good time to reflect, so if you can’t concentrate on reading (I can’t either), try thinking through what needs to be done. Write down lists of them. Do one or two things on the list each day.

    It won’t feel like much but when you look over time at long lists of ticked-off items, you start to realise you are doing things after all.
    Thanks Alastair, I really appreciate that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Everyone knows how to run education because they once were taught, either badly or well. Everyone also knows how to run a health service because they were once poorly too.

    Quite.
    So you're saying only teachers are allowed to have an opinion on teaching?
    Of course not, everyone has an opinion about teaching. But very few have an informed opinion. And fewer still have something useful or new to say about teaching.

    There are far too many armchair experts and meddlers. I am looking at you Gove.
    That is a very fair point.

    But.

    How do you avoid complacency setting in? How do you allow challenge to be made? How does an outsider or just someone looking at matters with a fresh eye get to ask the question “why” and get an answer?

    While it’s probably correct that too many people think they are experts based on their personal or anecdotal experience, all structures, systems and professions - and I include my own - need questioning and challenging. Teaching is no exception - however much we may admire teachers or appreciate how hard it is to do. So how to do that?
    Challenge is one of the roles of school governors.
    Whom many schools find it quite difficult to recruit....
    Though to be more accurate, it should be the governing body recruiting, not the school.
    Then again, schools with particularly weak governing bodies can be forced to get involved in the process.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Teaching is one of those topics that attracts armchair experts. The experience of a parent or pupil gives you remarkably little insight into what teaching is really like.

    I am a parent was a pupil and had a longtime girlfriend who was a teacher.

    I've been around them a lot, seen up close what it involves and am friends with and socialised with many.
    And yet not a teacher. We’ve all seen up close what it involves. 🤷‍♂️
    Right, sorry. I haven't been a teacher.

    Guess I should learn to STFU then and leave it to them.
    Good plan. Why not share your insights into Crossrail and big procurement instead.

    I am waiting to share my experience has an international playboy and raconteur, but the topic is yet to come up.

    If we all agreed to stay silent on something that affected us (and we were interested in) but weren't wholly on the 'inside' of we'd never debate or test anything. And that's not how a democracy or policy-making should work. We're all effected by education and teaching, and we can and should discuss it.

    I'm most impressed when someone challenges my assumptions and provides evidence to boot, not just when they appeal to their experience and authority.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Clap for Boris isn't that exciting in these parts. In London, it seems, even the police get involved with their car horns. Fantastic!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    Are you feeling very poorly?

    HMG has published a handy picture guide to "shielding" the medically vulnerable and it includes the phrase "most likely to get very poorly" ten times (22 if you include the page headers). It's like reading a recent Tory manifesto.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/875126/Easy_read_guidance_on_shielding_March_2020.pdf
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    isam said:

    You can’t catch it shopping, or off door handles... and it’s from a German scientist, so it must be right

    https://twitter.com/pwyowell/status/1251044587478671360?s=21

    I think that is no surprise. In our area the streets are continually being 'cleansed' and at the supermarket the trollies and counters are constantly being cleaned between customers, etc, etc. My view is that these are largely done to re-assure staff, customers and the general public that the authorities are doing what they can. As morale bolsters I think they are a good thing - of course the reality is that there is little else they can do until there are treatments/vaccines to end the nightmare.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    What makes me smile is that any criticim or suggestion for a profession on here from someone who does not work in that profession is shot down instantly. Yet everyone on here criticises the way politicians do things all the time.

    In terms of Matt Hancock, the role of Health Secretary during a once in a 100 year pandemic is like being the head of NASA the day Mars invades. He is doing a fine job.

    What would not doing a fine job look like, in your opinion?
    Something like this

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8142013/Horrifying-images-coronavirus-patients-lying-floor-packed-Madrid-hospital.html

    All the press have done since this outbreak began is try and find hospitals struggling, queues of ambulances at A & E etc. They have failed. The BBC headline this morning about the gowns sums up the approach of the press as just desperately trying to find things wrong.

    As I keep saying this is a once in a 100 year pandemic yet our hospitals are coping.

    Could any of us really have done any better than he has done?

    Can you imagine the stress he is under? Yet all people do is criticise. Just look at the reaction on here this morning when someone said the slightest detrimental thing about the teaching profession. Yet somehow we would all make much better Health Secretarys than Matt Hancock.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Weirdly I've done no betting or gambling of any kind since lockdown. I wonder if that's atypical? I'm not sure why as I don't really have financial worries.

    I tentatively suggest that I think there's a recalibration going on for a lot of people. There's a piece on the BBC this morning suggesting a significant number don't want things to go back to how they were. For me, with the betting, I think it's partly that I don't really have anything 'amazing' in the outside world that I could spend anything on. It's not as if it's sensible to book a holiday right now.

    Having written the above, which may be rubbish, I AM dreaming of my first post-lockdown trip abroad ...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Spark, Peston's a grade A imbecile.

    After ITV threw Alastair[sp] Stewart overboard for quoting Shakespeare on Twitter, the presence of Peston made not watching their news pretty damned easy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Weirdly I've done no betting or gambling of any kind since lockdown. I wonder if that's atypical? I'm not sure why as I don't really have financial worries.

    I tentatively suggest that I think there's a recalibration going on for a lot of people. There's a piece on the BBC this morning suggesting a significant number don't want things to go back to how they were. For me, with the betting, I think it's partly that I don't really have anything 'amazing' in the outside world that I could spend anything on. It's not as if it's sensible to book a holiday right now.

    Having written the above, which may be rubbish, I AM dreaming of my first post-lockdown trip abroad ...

    Betting...darts starts tonight...32 nights of it.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    The other thing for me is that none of this is really very different from my normal life. As a writer I often live for months in my own lockdown. I once spent 3 months in a villa in the South of France without speaking to, or seeing, anyone. Just the characters in my novel.

    The only change is that I wear a mask outside and I sometimes have to queue at my M&S food hall.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    ydoethur said:

    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.

    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
    I don't think that was what @ydoethur was saying (though no doubt he'll respond on his own behalf).
    "One might say" that only those involved in a regular basis with secondary school teaching have a fully informed opinion of secondary school teaching - rather than your slightly straw man formulation.
    I was a secondary school governor for eight years, and dedicated a considerable amount of time and effort to it. I would not have claimed to be as informed about teaching as the teachers themselves.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Are you feeling very poorly?

    HMG has published a handy picture guide to "shielding" the medically vulnerable and it includes the phrase "most likely to get very poorly" ten times (22 if you include the page headers). It's like reading a recent Tory manifesto.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/875126/Easy_read_guidance_on_shielding_March_2020.pdf

    Easy read guidance is... er ... easy read?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Without all the police cars there would be just enough room for them to be 2m apart......
    Devil's advocate:

    The Police need to be there its their job, but why is everyone else there? Doesn't look like anyone's exercising and the clap is meant to be at home isn't it?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    edited April 2020
    felix said:

    isam said:

    You can’t catch it shopping, or off door handles... and it’s from a German scientist, so it must be right

    https://twitter.com/pwyowell/status/1251044587478671360?s=21

    I think that is no surprise. In our area the streets are continually being 'cleansed' and at the supermarket the trollies and counters are constantly being cleaned between customers, etc, etc. My view is that these are largely done to re-assure staff, customers and the general public that the authorities are doing what they can. As morale bolsters I think they are a good thing - of course the reality is that there is little else they can do until there are treatments/vaccines to end the nightmare.
    Transport to and from shopping is a risk though. Trains, buses, tubes need to have manatory mask use before you can get on. They need that now. And there need to be supplies of masks which the public can buy for this. That is the current disconnect.

    If you can use your car, that will be much safer.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    No wonder London is being worst-hit if this is how close people are standing to each other.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Not sure exactly when this video was taken...
    Looking at the tree in the video, it was perhaps quite a bit earlier this year ?
    (Or it could just be a dead tree.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    That the Nightingales main value is PR rather than practical treatment of Covid-19 patients is, I can assure you, a common view amongst senior NHS professionals.

    But please do carry on with all the drooling brainless fandom.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Personally, I think the increased site traffic is down to the Moth du Jour feature....

    Speaking of which: Moth du Jour: Muslin Moth (male - the females are white)


  • What makes me smile is that any criticim or suggestion for a profession on here from someone who does not work in that profession is shot down instantly. Yet everyone on here criticises the way politicians do things all the time.

    In terms of Matt Hancock, the role of Health Secretary during a once in a 100 year pandemic is like being the head of NASA the day Mars invades. He is doing a fine job.

    What would not doing a fine job look like, in your opinion?
    Something like this

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8142013/Horrifying-images-coronavirus-patients-lying-floor-packed-Madrid-hospital.html

    All the press have done since this outbreak began is try and find hospitals struggling, queues of ambulances at A & E etc. They have failed. The BBC headline this morning about the gowns sums up the approach of the press as just desperately trying to find things wrong.

    As I keep saying this is a once in a 100 year pandemic yet our hospitals are coping.

    Could any of us really have done any better than he has done?

    Can you imagine the stress he is under? Yet all people do is criticise. Just look at the reaction on here this morning when someone said the slightest detrimental thing about the teaching profession. Yet somehow we would all make much better Health Secretarys than Matt Hancock.
    That's rather a low bar you're setting there. Shouldn't "doing a fine job" entail doing lots of testing and ensuring that medical staff have sufficient PPE as well as communicating effectively with the media? As far as I can see, he is doing a relatively mediocre job that many other politicians could have done at least as well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Nigelb said:

    Not sure exactly when this video was taken...
    Looking at the tree in the video, it was perhaps quite a bit earlier this year ?
    (Or it could just be a dead tree.)
    Well that city is really far north on the russian border, so probably still bloody cold. Also, as we found in Wuhan, it took time for video to start to leak.

    The lady is definitely an anti-CCP, so would express caution. But clearly something going on as stated by BBC blue checkmark.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    felix said:

    isam said:

    You can’t catch it shopping, or off door handles... and it’s from a German scientist, so it must be right

    https://twitter.com/pwyowell/status/1251044587478671360?s=21

    I think that is no surprise. In our area the streets are continually being 'cleansed' and at the supermarket the trollies and counters are constantly being cleaned between customers, etc, etc. My view is that these are largely done to re-assure staff, customers and the general public that the authorities are doing what they can. As morale bolsters I think they are a good thing - of course the reality is that there is little else they can do until there are treatments/vaccines to end the nightmare.
    Transport to and from shopping is a risk though. Trains, buses, tubes need to have manatory mask use before you can get on. They need that now. And there need to be supplies of masks which the public can buy for this. That is the current disconnect.

    f you can use your car, that will be much safer.
    Which explains car usage stats in London.

    Strangely, people prefer to travel in metal boxes they (or people in the same house) only touch. Which automatically puts you more than 2m away from other people.

    Given the emptiness of the roads, this is a no-brainer. Commuting to work is possible by car - for those who have to go into work. There is even parking in central London for once.

    The strangest thing about this, is that the above is a surprise to anyone.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    What makes me smile is that any criticim or suggestion for a profession on here from someone who does not work in that profession is shot down instantly. Yet everyone on here criticises the way politicians do things all the time.

    In terms of Matt Hancock, the role of Health Secretary during a once in a 100 year pandemic is like being the head of NASA the day Mars invades. He is doing a fine job.

    What would not doing a fine job look like, in your opinion?
    Something like this

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8142013/Horrifying-images-coronavirus-patients-lying-floor-packed-Madrid-hospital.html

    All the press have done since this outbreak began is try and find hospitals struggling, queues of ambulances at A & E etc. They have failed. The BBC headline this morning about the gowns sums up the approach of the press as just desperately trying to find things wrong.

    As I keep saying this is a once in a 100 year pandemic yet our hospitals are coping.

    Could any of us really have done any better than he has done?

    Can you imagine the stress he is under? Yet all people do is criticise. Just look at the reaction on here this morning when someone said the slightest detrimental thing about the teaching profession. Yet somehow we would all make much better Health Secretarys than Matt Hancock.
    That's rather a low bar you're setting there. Shouldn't "doing a fine job" entail doing lots of testing and ensuring that medical staff have sufficient PPE as well as communicating effectively with the media? As far as I can see, he is doing a relatively mediocre job that many other politicians could have done at least as well.
    Do you hear the questions that he gets asked? He has done incredibly well to not tell them where to stuff it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    My ever so cheerful list of consequences of the virus yesterday included a return to Mercantilism. You can trust the EU to be at the head of the queue in that respect: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52320435
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    I taught for 33 years - History - and loved it. Retired early as an acting head and have loved my ten years of retirement. It is a great job if you can do it but despite all the courses and training endured over the years I agree it is a profession not for everyone. I think the martyrdom many of my colleagues sought over the years probably hindered rather than helped their performance. Quality over quantity was always my motto. When I became a deputy head my boss chatted to me when I saw him in August before my first term about how he and lots of staff members had been in school for much of the summer break. I simply asked him why - it set the tone of what in the end was a very good partnership - I typically came in for a couple of days during the summer break and never more. Quality over quantitiy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    The other thing for me is that none of this is really very different from my normal life. As a writer I often live for months in my own lockdown. I once spent 3 months in a villa in the South of France without speaking to, or seeing, anyone. Just the characters in my novel.

    The only change is that I wear a mask outside and I sometimes have to queue at my M&S food hall.

    That - and the waving to strangers (at long distance....)
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    isam said:

    You can’t catch it shopping, or off door handles... and it’s from a German scientist, so it must be right

    https://twitter.com/pwyowell/status/1251044587478671360?s=21

    I think that is no surprise. In our area the streets are continually being 'cleansed' and at the supermarket the trollies and counters are constantly being cleaned between customers, etc, etc. My view is that these are largely done to re-assure staff, customers and the general public that the authorities are doing what they can. As morale bolsters I think they are a good thing - of course the reality is that there is little else they can do until there are treatments/vaccines to end the nightmare.
    Transport to and from shopping is a risk though. Trains, buses, tubes need to have manatory mask use before you can get on. They need that now. And there need to be supplies of masks which the public can buy for this. That is the current disconnect.

    If you can use your car, that will be much safer.
    In my Spanish village there is one bus to the market on a Tuesday morning [closed since the lockdown]. So not really an option to consider or worry about. :smile:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Third one seems a bit extreme.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Interesting snippet: wife was speaking to Marianne Faithfull yesterday, who is making slow but steady recovery after having the virus. But everybody else in the hospital (one of the larger London ones) who was admitted on the day she was has died.

    She is the sole survivor.
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.

    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
    I don't think that was what @ydoethur was saying (though no doubt he'll respond on his own behalf).
    "One might say" that only those involved in a regular basis with secondary school teaching have a fully informed opinion of secondary school teaching - rather than your slightly straw man formulation.
    I was a secondary school governor for eight years, and dedicated a considerable amount of time and effort to it. I would not have claimed to be as informed about teaching as the teachers themselves.
    Until you've stood alone day after day in front of a class of 30 kids who don't want to be there, you have no idea what teaching is. Mentoring graduates and giving lectures to adults is not remotely comparable to teaching secondary school kids. By drawing such a comparison, Casino_Royale is simply revealing his own ignorance.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Nigelb said:

    Not sure exactly when this video was taken...
    Looking at the tree in the video, it was perhaps quite a bit earlier this year ?
    (Or it could just be a dead tree.)
    Well that city is really far north on the russian border, so probably still bloody cold. Also, as we found in Wuhan, it took time for video to start to leak.

    The lady is definitely an anti-CCP, so would express caution. But clearly something going on as stated by BBC blue checkmark.
    She expressed it herself - the "not exactly sure" comment was hers.
    As for the weather... 22degC today; and 3deg forecast for the middle of next week.

    As with everything from China, uncertainty prevails.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.

    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
    I don't think that was what @ydoethur was saying (though no doubt he'll respond on his own behalf).
    "One might say" that only those involved in a regular basis with secondary school teaching have a fully informed opinion of secondary school teaching - rather than your slightly straw man formulation.
    I was a secondary school governor for eight years, and dedicated a considerable amount of time and effort to it. I would not have claimed to be as informed about teaching as the teachers themselves.
    Personal experience anecdote - it was interesting to watch a Primary school being setup from scratch by a very experienced head teacher, as an involved parent.

    The reaction to her innovations was illuminating - on several occasions, teachers reached the end of their probation period and were not renewed. Both from teachers and parents.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    Interesting snippet: wife was speaking to Marianne Faithfull yesterday, who is making slow but steady recovery after having the virus. But everybody else in the hospital (one of the larger London ones) who was admitted on the day she was has died.

    She is the sole survivor.

    You don't get to be Marianne Faithful without being a tough cookie.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    What makes me smile is that any criticim or suggestion for a profession on here from someone who does not work in that profession is shot down instantly. Yet everyone on here criticises the way politicians do things all the time.

    In terms of Matt Hancock, the role of Health Secretary during a once in a 100 year pandemic is like being the head of NASA the day Mars invades. He is doing a fine job.

    What would not doing a fine job look like, in your opinion?
    Something like this

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8142013/Horrifying-images-coronavirus-patients-lying-floor-packed-Madrid-hospital.html

    All the press have done since this outbreak began is try and find hospitals struggling, queues of ambulances at A & E etc. They have failed. The BBC headline this morning about the gowns sums up the approach of the press as just desperately trying to find things wrong.

    As I keep saying this is a once in a 100 year pandemic yet our hospitals are coping.

    Could any of us really have done any better than he has done?

    Can you imagine the stress he is under? Yet all people do is criticise. Just look at the reaction on here this morning when someone said the slightest detrimental thing about the teaching profession. Yet somehow we would all make much better Health Secretarys than Matt Hancock.
    That's rather a low bar you're setting there. Shouldn't "doing a fine job" entail doing lots of testing and ensuring that medical staff have sufficient PPE as well as communicating effectively with the media? As far as I can see, he is doing a relatively mediocre job that many other politicians could have done at least as well.
    Do you hear the questions that he gets asked? He has done incredibly well to not tell them where to stuff it.
    If a politician can't deal with even the most imbecilic question with ease, then they are in the wrong profession.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Goodness Wti crude barely 18$ a barrell. I have used less than half a gallon in the last month. Cry me a river! :(
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ...
    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited April 2020

    ydoethur said:

    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.

    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
    I have been a passenger on many lines in the UK and abroad. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I am a member of the Talyllyn Railway Preservation Society. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I once helped relay a stretch of railway track on the Bala Lake Railway. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I set up model railway networks and manage them. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    The answer's 'no' to all of them. Or at least, I hope it is. And yet they were no sillier than your questions.

    I think you are confusing 'education, by the teaching profession' with 'teaching' as an activity. The two are somewhat different. When I am teaching someone to play the organ my approach is altogether different from when I am teaching 30 Year 8s about the creation of British colonies in North America. What causes the problem - and it is a massive problem - is that it appears unless you have actually done it, people don't seem to realise what is or isn't involved and what is or isn't possible. And it is those people who have no understanding of it are making the decisions, and usually boasting about how the people who do understand it are pig ignorant. And then when their schemes are inevitably an utter catastrophe, they blame the very people who foresaw exactly what would happen!

    As an aside, while @Cyclefree makes a good point about producer interest, it continues to baffle me that we defer endlessly to doctors and nurses and bait teachers and teaching staff.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    I wouldn't say Robert Peston, quoted by Riddich, has a scoop, but he does have valid questions. Exactly what clinical purpose do the field hospitals serve and are they as useful as they could be in relieving pressure on existing services?

    My guess, beyond the PR angle which definitely is a thing, is that they exist as dumping grounds for when the health system breaks. Which thank goodness, it hasn't yet. But politicians who have a rare good news story are talking them up into something grander.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    Re Nightingale hospital. They said from the very start it was to take the less serious patients. No cover up. It was to free up capacity for really serious cases in hospitals.

    This is the same approach as China and now lots of western countries. Don't block your hospital s up with people who just need oxygen, keep an eye on them and if they do go downhill, get them to a proper facility asap.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.

    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
    I have been a passenger on many lines in the UK and abroad. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I am a member of the Talyllyn Railway Preservation Society. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I once helped relay a stretch of railway track on the Bala Lake Railway. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I set up model railway networks and manage them. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    The answer's 'no' to all of them. Or at least, I hope it is. And yet they were no sillier than your questions.

    I think you are confusing 'education, by the teaching profession' with 'teaching' as an activity. The two are somewhat different. When I am teaching someone to play the organ my approach is altogether different from when I am teaching 30 Year 8s about the creation of British colonies in North America. What causes the problem - and it is a massive problem - is that it appears you have actually done it, people don't seem to realise what is or isn't involved and what is or isn't possible.

    While @Cyclefree makes a good point about producer interest, it continues to baffle me that we defer endlessly to doctors and nurses and bait teachers and teaching staff.
    My wife comes from a country where you pay personally for decent health care.Her attitude - researching consultants and hospitals online and changing them to find better options - shocks some people.

    But as she puts it - you shop around for the best *hair cut*. Why not look for the best doctor for your children?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    FF43 said:

    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    I wouldn't say Robert Peston, quoted by Riddich, has a scoop, but he does have valid questions. Exactly what clinical purpose do the field hospitals serve and are they as useful as they could be in relieving pressure on existing services?

    My guess, beyond the PR angle which definitely is a thing, is that they exist as dumping grounds for when the health system breaks. Which thank goodness, it hasn't yet. But politicians who have a rare good news story are talking them up into something grander.
    As @Foxy suggested yesterday (I think), they could be essential as quarantine hospitals after the lockdown ends, should we attempt properly to control the spread of the virus the second time around.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FF43 said:

    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    I wouldn't say Robert Peston, quoted by Riddich, has a scoop, but he does have valid questions. Exactly what clinical purpose do the field hospitals serve and are they as useful as they could be in relieving pressure on existing services?

    My guess, beyond the PR angle which definitely is a thing, is that they exist as dumping grounds for when the health system breaks. Which thank goodness, it hasn't yet. But politicians who have a rare good news story are talking them up into something grander.
    On that, Nicola Sturgeon was at pains to stress she hoped the field hospital in Glasgow is never needed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Re Nightingale hospital. They said from the very start it was to take the less serious patients. No cover up.

    As was the Chinese hospital in Wuhan, that everyone was so impressed with.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    FF43 said:


    My guess, beyond the PR angle which definitely is a thing, is that they exist as dumping grounds for when the health system breaks. Which thank goodness, it hasn't yet.

    Yep. They're for when youknowwhat hits the fan, with the alternative being very sick people left to die in hospital corridors.

    The fact they're not being used is great news.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. 43, if there were sufficient pressure for the Nightingales to be necessary then the Government would be criticised for not creating extra capacity.

    The media's decided it's going to be critical. The only question is in what way.

    See when the lockdown ends. Too soon: money prioritised over human life. Too late: economy destroyed.

    We saw this pre-pandemic with the BBC's atrocious covering of how the FOBT stakes were slashed. When the inevitable job losses occurred, the 'news' described it as unforeseen consequences and woeful tidings, when it was a straightforward and predictable outcome following a decision that was praised by everyone except those who felt the stakes should've been cut sooner (and the gambling industry).
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    What are Ranvir Singh and Ben Shepherd playing at on GMB? Interviewing Grant Shapps, they are allowing him to answer the questions, few interruptions, no crude accusations of him laughing at old people dying of Covid-19 & no use of misinformation to score a cheap point and wrong foot him so far.

    Bring back Piers Morgan!

    It is a shame we cannot bet on the Cabinet following Boris's close encounter. I'd fancy Shapps, who at least by his own account played a leading role in getting Boris elected, to replace Matt Hancock whose fall from grace has been remarkable. It is just a couple of weeks since he was lauded as a future prime minister.
    Hancock is doing fine, the fact Piers Morgan annoyed him is yet another point in his favour
    No he isn't. Hancock had the best start to the pandemic and lockdown but for the past couple of weeks has seemed out of his depth as we still fail with testing and PPE, and more tellingly perhaps, he's looked out on his feet at the lectern.
    Hancock is doing fine, we are now testing more per head than France and more PPE equipment is coming too.

    He is one of the more able Cabinet Ministers
    That is too ypical of your posts - you cite the fact we are testing slightly more than one country, France, as evidence Hancock is doing fine, completely ignoring the fact that we are testing far less than Germany, Italy, Spain, USA, Canada, Russia, Sweden, Netherlands. Portugal .........
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Without all the police cars there would be just enough room for them to be 2m apart......
    Devil's advocate:

    The Police need to be there its their job, but why is everyone else there? Doesn't look like anyone's exercising and the clap is meant to be at home isn't it?
    Im not a big fan of the clap, especially when its just to film it for social media.

    If the police are going to have that number of cars there then they should be controlling the numbers onto the bridge at the same time, not just joining in the clapping with their woo wahs on.

    Or they could have had a smaller presence on the actual bridge and left it safer for those involved.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Interesting snippet: wife was speaking to Marianne Faithfull yesterday, who is making slow but steady recovery after having the virus. But everybody else in the hospital (one of the larger London ones) who was admitted on the day she was has died.

    She is the sole survivor.

    I heard some news from our local hospital yesterday which I can't get into detail over.

    But I will say the ICU is very busy and I found what I was told pretty depressing.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.

    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
    I don't think that was what @ydoethur was saying (though no doubt he'll respond on his own behalf).
    "One might say" that only those involved in a regular basis with secondary school teaching have a fully informed opinion of secondary school teaching - rather than your slightly straw man formulation.
    I was a secondary school governor for eight years, and dedicated a considerable amount of time and effort to it. I would not have claimed to be as informed about teaching as the teachers themselves.
    Until you've stood alone day after day in front of a class of 30 kids who don't want to be there, you have no idea what teaching is. Mentoring graduates and giving lectures to adults is not remotely comparable to teaching secondary school kids. By drawing such a comparison, Casino_Royale is simply revealing his own ignorance.
    It's not that much better 'lecturing' to BTec students on a part of the syllabus in which most of them are neither interested, nor likely to have to be interested.
    But as someone who is married to an ex-teacher and is the grandfather of two (three if you count the spouse of one of them), and who grew up with an ex-teacher father and two more in the family I would say you are quite right.
    My ex-teacher father could be a terror on the subject 20 years after he left the profession.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020

    Re Nightingale hospital. They said from the very start it was to take the less serious patients. No cover up.

    As was the Chinese hospital in Wuhan, that everyone was so impressed with.
    Obviously Peston thought they would be doing open heart surgery in a conference centre.

    If the government hadn't setup / planned for this, the press would be screaming look at China, look at Spain, look at US, why aren't we setting up field hospitals?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    kinabalu said:

    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    That the Nightingales main value is PR rather than practical treatment of Covid-19 patients is, I can assure you, a common view amongst senior NHS professionals.

    But please do carry on with all the drooling brainless fandom.
    They may just have been PR but imagine if we needed them and they weren't there.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Andy_JS said:

    No wonder London is being worst-hit if this is how close people are standing to each other.
    Yes nothing to do with being the most crowded, biggest public transport network, most connected city, with commuters and tourists still around thru March and very small living spaces at all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited April 2020
    Here is the massive cover-up...31st March....to the Guardian and Daily Rant..

    Younger coronavirus victims who were previously fit and healthy will be treated at London's NHS Nightingale while sicker patients more likely to die are cared for at normal hospitals, senior doctors reveal

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8170815/NHS-Nightingale-hospital-treat-Londons-younger-critical-Covid-19-patients.html

    Nightingale hospital in London 'to treat less critical Covid-19 cases'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/nightingale-hospital-in-london-to-treat-less-critical-covid-19-cases

    Quick get Carole Conspiracy on the case....Aaron Banks must have been involved some where.

    Robert Peston is clearly trying to outdo his massive scoop on the chemical industry and reagents.
  • DensparkDenspark Posts: 68
    FF43 said:

    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    I wouldn't say Robert Peston, quoted by Riddich, has a scoop, but he does have valid questions. Exactly what clinical purpose do the field hospitals serve and are they as useful as they could be in relieving pressure on existing services?

    My guess, beyond the PR angle which definitely is a thing, is that they exist as dumping grounds for when the health system breaks. Which thank goodness, it hasn't yet. But politicians who have a rare good news story are talking them up into something grander.
    Yep, my real point was the complaining about waste of resources because they'd tried to mitigate a worse case scenario than what appears to be happening.

    damned if they do and damned if they don't, i guess.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    Well, since the last grievance crashed and burned they've had to come up with something else...

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Goodness - just read that Spanish education advisers are saying the schools should not reopen until September. I have to say that is madness.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    DavidL said:

    Daily routine (when not working):

    Wake up, do exercises, spend an hour doing Hungarian translation exercises, do chores as instructed by higher powers, lunch, spend time in the garden or write, go for a walk, dinner, talk, listen to music or watch TV. Spending more time online is fitted in throughout this.

    That's nice.

    I'm working harder than I ever have before during this - I'm up at 5am and in bed by 11pm and either working or looking after my child the whole time in between (she is currently distracted by Milkshake).

    My wife is the same.
    I'm impressed. To be honest I am almost the exact opposite. I am finding concentration very difficult and don't even get on with the work I have to do. My productivity isn't even a quarter of what it is in normal times. I am spending a lot of time walking and running but find I don't even have the concentration span for books. I fear it is indicative of depression. I am finding I am spending a lot of time on PB, probably too much to be honest, but it is a comfort. I really cannot wait for this to be over but the financial implications will be with me for a long time.
    This is not a holiday, but limbo, an ante-chamber to purgatory. Far too few really understand that yet.
    You are far too negative.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Here is the massive cover-up...31st March....to the Guardian and Daily Rant..

    Younger coronavirus victims who were previously fit and healthy will be treated at London's NHS Nightingale while sicker patients more likely to die are cared for at normal hospitals, senior doctors reveal

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8170815/NHS-Nightingale-hospital-treat-Londons-younger-critical-Covid-19-patients.html

    Nightingale hospital in London 'to treat less critical Covid-19 cases'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/nightingale-hospital-in-london-to-treat-less-critical-covid-19-cases

    Quick get Carole Conspiracy on the case....Aaron Banks must have been involved some where.

    Part of the issue is, I think, the superficial reporting extends to the journalists themselves.

    They skipped over the details of what the Nightingale hospitals were for, when they were announced, when they were built etc. "Hospitals built" was the limit of their thinking.

    Now they have seen a comment from someone and re-read the press releases and "discovered" a story.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Mr. 43, if there were sufficient pressure for the Nightingales to be necessary then the Government would be criticised for not creating extra capacity.

    The media's decided it's going to be critical. The only question is in what way.

    See when the lockdown ends. Too soon: money prioritised over human life. Too late: economy destroyed.

    We saw this pre-pandemic with the BBC's atrocious covering of how the FOBT stakes were slashed. When the inevitable job losses occurred, the 'news' described it as unforeseen consequences and woeful tidings, when it was a straightforward and predictable outcome following a decision that was praised by everyone except those who felt the stakes should've been cut sooner (and the gambling industry).

    The potential need for an overflow is clear to me. I'm also impressed by the way these hospitals have been set up in short order. So no issues with the field hospitals programme in itself. As this is a political blog, I am interested in how politicians use the hospitals for their own purposes, watch have nothing to do with any clinical usefulness.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited April 2020

    DavidL said:

    Daily routine (when not working):

    Wake up, do exercises, spend an hour doing Hungarian translation exercises, do chores as instructed by higher powers, lunch, spend time in the garden or write, go for a walk, dinner, talk, listen to music or watch TV. Spending more time online is fitted in throughout this.

    That's nice.

    I'm working harder than I ever have before during this - I'm up at 5am and in bed by 11pm and either working or looking after my child the whole time in between (she is currently distracted by Milkshake).

    My wife is the same.
    I'm impressed. To be honest I am almost the exact opposite. I am finding concentration very difficult and don't even get on with the work I have to do. My productivity isn't even a quarter of what it is in normal times. I am spending a lot of time walking and running but find I don't even have the concentration span for books. I fear it is indicative of depression. I am finding I am spending a lot of time on PB, probably too much to be honest, but it is a comfort. I really cannot wait for this to be over but the financial implications will be with me for a long time.
    Where my partner and I benefit enormously now is that we have been through one life-changing disaster, so this is not new territory. What you learn is to put the past to one side as much as you can and focus on your goals for the future.

    My partner made a full recovery in part because he wasted little time with regret and from a very early stage put all his energies into his recovery. In this respect he is inspirational. We are all suffering a catastrophe and how we recover from it will depend on what we do in the coming weeks and months.

    It’s ok to not be ok. None of us are ok. And if you fear you are depressed, get the professional help you need. Just asking for it is a major step forward. However, it may well be that your state of mind now reflects that you understand the future more clearly than many. This is not a holiday, but limbo, an ante-chamber to purgatory. Far too few really understand that yet.

    Right now there are limited things we can do, but never let a crisis go to waste. Now is a good time to reflect, so if you can’t concentrate on reading (I can’t either), try thinking through what needs to be done. Write down lists of them. Do one or two things on the list each day.

    It won’t feel like much but when you look over time at long lists of ticked-off items, you start to realise you are doing things after all.
    Very wise advice.

    I try to stay positive to help my daughter. Much as she enjoys the sunny weather she mainly sees it as a lost business opportunity, lost income and wonders how she will get through the autumn and winter if the next few months of business are lost, as they likely will be. Even if she manages to break even this year (with the limited business she is doing) that only leaves next year to earn any money (her tenancy lasts three years). So what seemed like a great opportunity and one which went really well in year 1 could end up leading nowhere over 3 years, missed opportunities, no money made etc and having to start all over again in the middle of a seriously ravaged economy.

    The same goes for my other children.

    I fear for them when the reality of what faces them sets in. At the moment we are treading water and coping. This November ...... not so much. I worry about them and what I can do to help them. That is what gets me down - not the reality of my daily life which is not so bad.

    Since there is little I can do at the moment I try with her to take joy in small things and make what plans we can. That is all any of us can do.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.

    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
    I have been a passenger on many lines in the UK and abroad. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I am a member of the Talyllyn Railway Preservation Society. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I once helped relay a stretch of railway track on the Bala Lake Railway. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I set up model railway networks and manage them. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    The answer's 'no' to all of them. Or at least, I hope it is. And yet they were no sillier than your questions.

    I think you are confusing 'education, by the teaching profession' with 'teaching' as an activity. The two are somewhat different. When I am teaching someone to play the organ my approach is altogether different from when I am teaching 30 Year 8s about the creation of British colonies in North America. What causes the problem - and it is a massive problem - is that it appears unless you have actually done it, people don't seem to realise what is or isn't involved and what is or isn't possible. And it is those people who have no understanding of it are making the decisions, and usually boasting about how the people who do understand it are pig ignorant. And then when their schemes are inevitably an utter catastrophe, they blame the very people who foresaw exactly what would happen!

    As an aside, while @Cyclefree makes a good point about producer interest, it continues to baffle me that we defer endlessly to doctors and nurses and bait teachers and teaching staff.
    It took many of my fellow governors (me, too) a year or so properly to understand what challenge means when you're not an expert. Probably because at the time many of us were parents of children in school.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    edited April 2020
    Social Distancing and Stay Home Save Lives seems not to be as important as we are being told it is ... time for some hard questions in the press coverage.

    And Amanda 'it's all due to 5G' Holden of all people.

    https://twitter.com/MPSHounslow/status/1250878555816448007
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Here is the massive cover-up...31st March....to the Guardian and Daily Rant..

    Younger coronavirus victims who were previously fit and healthy will be treated at London's NHS Nightingale while sicker patients more likely to die are cared for at normal hospitals, senior doctors reveal

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8170815/NHS-Nightingale-hospital-treat-Londons-younger-critical-Covid-19-patients.html

    Nightingale hospital in London 'to treat less critical Covid-19 cases'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/nightingale-hospital-in-london-to-treat-less-critical-covid-19-cases

    Quick get Carole Conspiracy on the case....Aaron Banks must have been involved some where.

    Part of the issue is, I think, the superficial reporting extends to the journalists themselves.

    They skipped over the details of what the Nightingale hospitals were for, when they were announced, when they were built etc. "Hospitals built" was the limit of their thinking.

    Now they have seen a comment from someone and re-read the press releases and "discovered" a story.
    Just when you think the journalists couldn't get any worse, they manage to outdo themselves. I do wonder what they actually do all day. Clearly not research.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    isam said:

    ...

    OllyT said:

    I was pondering what long-term changes the virus will have on people. Quite significant for many I predict.

    Personally I have 3 already.

    Done with flying. Future holidays will be by car to Europe

    Done with meat. The pictures from the Chinese markets gave me the final push into something I was drifting towards.

    Done with football. Season ticket and Sky sport cancelled.

    Maybe the first will apply to a lot of people. I’d say the biggest difference will be a move towards social distancing stand offishness, and less packed, more expensive pubs/restaurants
    God I know loads of young people who are heading abroad for holidays at the earliest opportunity. Me too.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    I wouldn't say Robert Peston, quoted by Riddich, has a scoop, but he does have valid questions. Exactly what clinical purpose do the field hospitals serve and are they as useful as they could be in relieving pressure on existing services?

    My guess, beyond the PR angle which definitely is a thing, is that they exist as dumping grounds for when the health system breaks. Which thank goodness, it hasn't yet. But politicians who have a rare good news story are talking them up into something grander.
    As @Foxy suggested yesterday (I think), they could be essential as quarantine hospitals after the lockdown ends, should we attempt properly to control the spread of the virus the second time around.
    Could they help the social care crisis?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Under 45s 👀


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Without all the police cars there would be just enough room for them to be 2m apart......
    Devil's advocate:

    The Police need to be there its their job, but why is everyone else there? Doesn't look like anyone's exercising and the clap is meant to be at home isn't it?
    I'm not a big fan of the clap....
    Indeed.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    Denspark said:

    and so it begins....

    https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1251054754572185600

    Ignoring the whole point that the nightingale hospitals were to take the less complex cases to allow the more complex cases to be treated in the permanent hospitals.

    columnist for the national.........

    Well, since the last grievance crashed and burned they've had to come up with something else...

    Yeh, its been a massive state secret that Nightingale will treat those who are less ill and have fewer complications.

    Oh wait...

    https://twitter.com/NickBennett58/status/1250896363942023170
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,379
    edited April 2020
    I see Councillor Lee Mason, former Lord Mayor of Portsmouth, has been suspended after baking Hot Cross Buns with swastikas in place of crosses, and posting the images on facebook.

    Following Mike Hancock, and Sarah McCarthy Fry and her husband, I think there really is something in the water in Portsmouth.
  • edbedb Posts: 66
    Unfortunately that competition model (we won't renew your contract unless you are excellent) only works if you have a surplus of teachers/doctors/whatever.
    Not the case in this country with our levels of training, pay, and status.

    So all that happens is segregation of those who can afford to get the best vs. those who end up with the rest.
    It can be made to work, but you have to meaningfully change some of the parameters first.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    DavidL said:

    Daily routine (when not working):

    Wake up, do exercises, spend an hour doing Hungarian translation exercises, do chores as instructed by higher powers, lunch, spend time in the garden or write, go for a walk, dinner, talk, listen to music or watch TV. Spending more time online is fitted in throughout this.

    That's nice.

    I'm working harder than I ever have before during this - I'm up at 5am and in bed by 11pm and either working or looking after my child the whole time in between (she is currently distracted by Milkshake).

    My wife is the same.
    I'm impressed. To be honest I am almost the exact opposite. I am finding concentration very difficult and don't even get on with the work I have to do. My productivity isn't even a quarter of what it is in normal times. I am spending a lot of time walking and running but find I don't even have the concentration span for books. I fear it is indicative of depression. I am finding I am spending a lot of time on PB, probably too much to be honest, but it is a comfort. I really cannot wait for this to be over but the financial implications will be with me for a long time.
    This is not a holiday, but limbo, an ante-chamber to purgatory. Far too few really understand that yet.
    You are far too negative.
    No, he's right. It's been a very difficult time not knowing what the future holds and I do that for a living. My dad described it as a midlife crisis for the nation. It's made me reasses what I want out of life and whether I want to stay on my career path, so far the answer isn't as clear as I'd hoped. My partner has also started to consider whether she would go back to work after we start a family, it's not something she had ever thought about before.

    That lack of direction and clarity isn't easy to handle.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    Here is the massive cover-up...31st March....to the Guardian and Daily Rant..

    Younger coronavirus victims who were previously fit and healthy will be treated at London's NHS Nightingale while sicker patients more likely to die are cared for at normal hospitals, senior doctors reveal

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8170815/NHS-Nightingale-hospital-treat-Londons-younger-critical-Covid-19-patients.html

    Nightingale hospital in London 'to treat less critical Covid-19 cases'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/nightingale-hospital-in-london-to-treat-less-critical-covid-19-cases

    Quick get Carole Conspiracy on the case....Aaron Banks must have been involved some where.

    Part of the issue is, I think, the superficial reporting extends to the journalists themselves.

    They skipped over the details of what the Nightingale hospitals were for, when they were announced, when they were built etc. "Hospitals built" was the limit of their thinking.

    Now they have seen a comment from someone and re-read the press releases and "discovered" a story.
    Take the politico journalists off this kind of detail and leave it to the health correspondents.

    It's becoming embarrassing now.



  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Interesting snippet: wife was speaking to Marianne Faithfull yesterday, who is making slow but steady recovery after having the virus. But everybody else in the hospital (one of the larger London ones) who was admitted on the day she was has died.

    She is the sole survivor.

    You don't get to be Marianne Faithful without being a tough cookie.
    I think she preferred another type of sweet.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Someone has shopped John Ashton:

    https://twitter.com/Johnrashton47/status/1251055359424421888?s=20

    While I disagree with his politics he has every right to criticise the government and nothing he's said I've heard seems "unprofessional" - I disagree with some of it, but that does not remotely cross the line into unprofessional behaviour.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Sean_F said:

    I see Councillor Lee Mason, former Lord Mayor of Portsmouth, has been suspended after baking Hot Cross Buns with swastikas in place of crosses, and posting the images on facebook.

    Following Mike Hancock, and Sarah McCarthy Fry and her husband, I think there really is something in the water in Portsmouth.

    The Royal Navy.

    Or in the case of HMS Prince of Wales not only is the Navy in the water, the water is in the navy.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    HYUFD said:
    I do really enjoy the occasional twitter post on here and put them up myself, but you do rather over-exercise the facility if I may say so, often without comment. I'm sure a poll in which a third said yes and a third said no and a third had no opinion either way is of interest. Actually, scrub that, it really isn't.

    Have a nice day ;)

    xx
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,379

    Interesting snippet: wife was speaking to Marianne Faithfull yesterday, who is making slow but steady recovery after having the virus. But everybody else in the hospital (one of the larger London ones) who was admitted on the day she was has died.

    She is the sole survivor.

    You don't get to be Marianne Faithful without being a tough cookie.
    I think she preferred another type of sweet.
    Mars Bars.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,264
    HYUFD said:
    Sounds like Adonis is trying to position himself so he can condemn the British government for either (a) doing too much or (b) doing too little, depending on what happens next.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    HYUFD said:
    I do really enjoy the occasional twitter post on here and put them up myself, but you do rather over-exercise the facility if I may say so, often without comment. I'm sure a poll in which a third said yes and a third said no and a third had no opinion either way is of interest. Actually, scrub that, it really isn't.

    Have a nice day ;)

    xx
    I disagree. That finding is a lot more interesting than the 90%+ of people who were found to support lockdown for the next three weeks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    HYUFD said:
    Sounds like Adonis is trying to position himself so he can condemn the British government for either (a) doing too much or (b) doing too little, depending on what happens next.
    Is he another avatar of SeanT?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The point is, it’s very easy to have opinions. As James Blunt said, they’re like arseholes. We all have them but we probably shouldn’t show them in public.

    However, informed opinions are much rarer. I have many years of experience of teaching, and I know what the job involves. I know how it can be tough. I know what works, and what doesn’t. Therefore, my opinions on the subject are based on a large body of evidence. Yours are based on general impressions. Which one is more likely to be right?

    It works the other way too. I have loads of opinions on railways, and how they should be run. You actually work in managing them. Therefore, if I say something you know to be wrong, you would quite rightly call me out on it. And indeed you frequently do correct posters in debates over Crossrail.

    I'm teaching my child words, numbers and the alphabet.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've mentored a number of graduates and apprentices in my workplace consistently over a number of years.

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've given talks and seminars to assembled groups on some of my subject specialisms in the industry, where I've experienced some bad behaviour at the back and minor heckling - yes, from grown adults?

    Does that count as teaching?

    I've gone into schools as a STEM ambassador to talk about engineering and science, and answered questions from primary and secondary school pupils.

    Does that count as teaching?

    One might say it's only full-time teachers in a secondary school - and who've done it for a number of years - that are qualified to have an opinion on teaching. But that smacks to me of the worst kind of protectionism and producer interest.

    The truth is that most of us have different levels and types of experience of both being teachers and being teached, and it's better to challenge those experiences that have informed opinions with additional evidence rather than making lazy appeals to authority and dismissing anyone who thinks differently.
    I have been a passenger on many lines in the UK and abroad. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I am a member of the Talyllyn Railway Preservation Society. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I once helped relay a stretch of railway track on the Bala Lake Railway. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    I set up model railway networks and manage them. Does that count as understanding railway management?

    The answer's 'no' to all of them. Or at least, I hope it is. And yet they were no sillier than your questions.

    I think you are confusing 'education, by the teaching profession' with 'teaching' as an activity. The two are somewhat different. When I am teaching someone to play the organ my approach is altogether different from when I am teaching 30 Year 8s about the creation of British colonies in North America. What causes the problem - and it is a massive problem - is that it appears unless you have actually done it, people don't seem to realise what is or isn't involved and what is or isn't possible. And it is those people who have no understanding of it are making the decisions, and usually boasting about how the people who do understand it are pig ignorant. And then when their schemes are inevitably an utter catastrophe, they blame the very people who foresaw exactly what would happen!

    As an aside, while @Cyclefree makes a good point about producer interest, it continues to baffle me that we defer endlessly to doctors and nurses and bait teachers and teaching staff.
    We bait lots professionals on the basis of ignorance and prejudice. We don’t value others eg teachers and engineers and good craftsmen. And we defer a little too readily to yet others. There have been far too many scandals in medicine to view all doctors and nurses as saints, heretical as it may be to say so now.

    No-one should either be or think themselves beyond challenge. Whereas, all too often our attitude is that of Basil Fawlty as described by Sybil:

    “You never get it right, do you? You're either crawling all over them, licking their boots, or spitting poison at them like some benzedrine puff adder.”
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    HYUFD said:
    Sounds like Adonis is trying to position himself so he can condemn the British government for either (a) doing too much or (b) doing too little, depending on what happens next.
    I dont think you need to position yourself for that. Plenty are simultaneously complaining that there is too much lockdown, too little lockdown, we locked down too early, we need to leave lockdown early, we should have as much ppe, ventilators, hospital beds, tests as needed, instantly available, but never leave any unused as that would be a waste.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    The problem for teachers vis a vis the practice of the profession of course that we've all had experience of being at school, we all had some teachers who educated us and some who were recycling what they'd read.

    As posted the other day, doctors have replaced priests, and nurse as their vestal virgins. However unlikely that may seem, in some cases! To be fair, the kindest and most empathetic group of people I ever worked with were family planning nurses.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    The thing with masks is, yes they're beneficial, and yes, we'd wear them on public transport, but what about when we're in the office, at a conference, in a pub? That's where the real danger lies, and that's when you're likely to take your mask off along with your coat and gloves.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    Daily routine (when not working):

    Wake up, do exercises, spend an hour doing Hungarian translation exercises, do chores as instructed by higher powers, lunch, spend time in the garden or write, go for a walk, dinner, talk, listen to music or watch TV. Spending more time online is fitted in throughout this.

    That's nice.

    I'm working harder than I ever have before during this - I'm up at 5am and in bed by 11pm and either working or looking after my child the whole time in between (she is currently distracted by Milkshake).

    My wife is the same.
    I'm impressed. To be honest I am almost the exact opposite. I am finding concentration very difficult and don't even get on with the work I have to do. My productivity isn't even a quarter of what it is in normal times. I am spending a lot of time walking and running but find I don't even have the concentration span for books. I fear it is indicative of depression. I am finding I am spending a lot of time on PB, probably too much to be honest, but it is a comfort. I really cannot wait for this to be over but the financial implications will be with me for a long time.
    This is not a holiday, but limbo, an ante-chamber to purgatory. Far too few really understand that yet.
    You are far too negative.
    No, he's right. It's been a very difficult time not knowing what the future holds and I do that for a living. My dad described it as a midlife crisis for the nation. It's made me reasses what I want out of life and whether I want to stay on my career path, so far the answer isn't as clear as I'd hoped. My partner has also started to consider whether she would go back to work after we start a family, it's not something she had ever thought about before.

    That lack of direction and clarity isn't easy to handle.
    Sorry to hear that. And @DavidL's difficulties too.

    I started out running my own biz, before a few years on the management consulting treadmill in London, only to go back to my own biz after a few years. The money in London was great, as was the defined career path. Although I could cope with the work, I couldn't cope with the idea that the work in that sector would be likely endless, pretty repetitive and largely personally unfulfilling. Frustration set in before I got too used to the money....
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Norman is no longer going to bite yer legs.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1251086306828001282
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    ...

    Younger coronavirus victims who were previously fit and healthy will be treated at London's NHS Nightingale while sicker patients more likely to die are cared for at normal hospitals, senior doctors reveal

    ...

    .

    Issue with this explanation is that younger coronavirus victims who were previously fit and healthy aren't being treated at London's NHS Nightingale.


    Either the hospitals are a problem or the explanation is a problem. I suspect the second, in which case there's a legitimate question of what is the real explanation.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Rather odd press conference update re Coronavirus on Spanish TV. No updated figures given on deaths yet for some reason. All the other figures given in different ways too. I think he may be obfuscating!
This discussion has been closed.