Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
Joggers...joggers...that's my pet hate...selfish, germ spreading, disease ridden heavy breathers who do not respect your space....
As someone who cycles and jogs a bit, it is distressing that while cyclers and joggers do get some unearned crap, they do still earn plenty of the crap they get. Something about both activities that turns those doing the activity and those interacting with them into arseholes.
Its observation bias. The arsehole cyclists/joggers (of which there are too many) are the ones that you remember. The decent ones (which are probably a majority to be fair) get forgotten about as moot.
If I'm going through a set of traffic lights I don't think about the cyclist respecting the lights. I do think about the idiots that don't think the red light applied to them.
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Try living in a city like Oxford where the bike lobby is very active in seeking to assert their dominance over the public realm.
They demand the right to go where they like, when they like and in whatever way they like. They don't care about pavements, having appropriate lights/protective equipment. They love to use their phones whilst cycling.
And everything that happens to them is the fault of the evil car drivers. Not their own negligence and arrogance.
Personally I believe all cyclists should have to pass a basic proficiency test and be required to have insurance.
If they want enhanced provision for cycling then that should come at the price of actually having to abide by basic rules. Far too many of them would find that a huge struggle.
Why should the occasional cyclist have to pay the price of the behaviour of the semi-professional type of cyclist? I hate this attitude that says "all" of a group of people have to be subjected to something. Of course, in today's world it always has to be "all" because otherwise there would be cries of "discrimination" and "unfairness".
If you are going to share the roads, then you should be bound by some basic code of conduct and to take responsibility for your own behaviour.
This would not be a huge financial burden on anyone - but it is surely appropriate to require all road users to abide by the same sort of rules.
The majority of car drivers don't have accidents - but we still require them all to have insurance.
And it is not 'semi-professional' cyclists who are the main issue. It is any cyclist who doesn't show any regards to those around them.
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
Joggers...joggers...that's my pet hate...selfish, germ spreading, disease ridden heavy breathers who do not respect your space....
To be fair you have a lot of pet hates. At least you've moved on from cruise ships.
I fail to see why a tighter definition is needed? After all sunbathing or picknicking alone in the park keeps greater social distancing than jogging, cycling or walking through it with a group of other people.
How long do you you think they would be on their own? Within two hours the park would be packed With people doing the same thing, the kids would organize a footy game and the adults would pool their booze.
If it gets more crowded police can break it up but again it is the gathering not the sunbathing which is the problem
I have to get this off my conscience.... I am now doing 2 separate bags for friends self isolating with symptoms....I had some eggs changed because 1 had broken..the shop assistant sneezed on my eggs when he was returning with a new box..and I put that in my friend's bag...
I'm just getting that one off my chest....
I wipe my eggs with surgical spirit, like everything else that comes through the door. Can you do that?
Or simply quarantine them for a few days. Eggs last for ages, and you can freeze them
Of the 866 new deaths announced today, 117 occurred on 9 April while 720 took place between 1 April and 8 April.
The remaining 29 deaths occurred in March, including one on March 5.
Doesn't all this make trying to get a trend from the numbers essentially useless? By the time the numbers are definiative enough to plot a trend, we'll be taking about cases infected at least 6 weeks previously, probably more like 2 months.
"Schools could reopen in a few weeks as coronavirus restrictions begin to be lifted, Public Health England suggested this morning.
Paul Cosford, the agency’s emeritus medical director, said that easing the lockdown for the young first was being considered as ministers look to set out an exit plan for the coming weeks." (£)
Schools should reopen directly after the Easter holiday.
At this stage there is no hope or point in containing it, a vaccine is 14 months off if not more. its just a case of does it stop when we have a critical mass (61%) of people who have infected, removed and immune.
do we want that 61% spreed evenly across the age range or higher in the age range best able to resist it (Yong people) and therefor lower in the older and more vonrable are range?
Thank you for your comments. I must admit though that I am reassured that that your opinion will have no say on public policy, but thank you all the same...
I fail to see why a tighter definition is needed? After all sunbathing or picknicking alone in the park keeps greater social distancing than jogging, cycling or walking through it with a group of other people.
How long do you you think they would be on their own? Within two hours the park would be packed With people doing the same thing, the kids would organize a footy game and the adults would pool their booze.
Quite. The problem with the sunbathers and picnickers has nothing to do with the nature of the activity per se and everything to do with population density and interaction.
If you could guarantee that the total number of such individuals and little household groups scattered across a park was only about six, and they were all spaced a hundred metres apart, then nobody would care. But because lots of people all turn up to do the activity at once then social distancing becomes very difficult. Even if the adults keep apart from each other religiously then you can bet they'll struggle to prevent the kids from running around with each other.
The best thing to do is to get people to keep moving about and, therefore, to stop the parks from getting too crowded.
Since it is Good Friday, some might be interested to watch PBS America Ch 91 Freeview and I think 174 on Sky. at 8.35pm
Its A Melvyn Bragg programme about Willam Tynedale who secretly translated the Bible from Latin to English to enable the masses to read it and was put to death at the stake as a result.
Tyndale used the Greek and Hebrew texts in addition to the (later and less accurate) Latin ones.
Whereas King James' authors could have saved themselves a lot of unnecessary effort by translating William Morgan's 1588 magnum opus from the Welsh.
Try living in a city like Oxford where the bike lobby is very active in seeking to assert their dominance over the public realm.
Ah so you live in Oxford. Dreaming spires and all that. Excellent.
Should it come as a shock that someone who includes the word 'oxford' in their profile name actually has a connection to that location? Did you think I was trying to bamboozle people by way of a double bluff?
In reality, I no longer live in the city - but my new location isn't quite as iconic.
I am getting onto clearing away the clutter and old growth. As a general principle how much of the old growth still on plants, detritus on the ground etc should be cleared up at the start of the season? Should I spend time clearing all of these bits, for example? What should be left?
(Question 10a Never noticed before, but various furious people are fulminating about cyclists. Is there a meaning behind your user name? I always took it as a linear outlook on the world )
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
Joggers...joggers...that's my pet hate...selfish, germ spreading, disease ridden heavy breathers who do not respect your space....
To be fair you have a lot of pet hates. At least you've moved on from cruise ships.
That's because you see fewer cruise ships on the streets these days since the lockdown...
Try living in a city like Oxford where the bike lobby is very active in seeking to assert their dominance over the public realm.
Ah so you live in Oxford. Dreaming spires and all that. Excellent.
Should it come as a shock that someone who includes the word 'oxford' in their profile name actually has a connection to that location? Did you think I was trying to bamboozle people by way of a double bluff?
In reality, I no longer live in the city - but my new location isn't quite as iconic.
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
Joggers...joggers...that's my pet hate...selfish, germ spreading, disease ridden heavy breathers who do not respect your space....
To be fair you have a lot of pet hates. At least you've moved on from cruise ships.
Do not please mention cruise ships....I hope that industry is kyboshed for good....that would be a wonderful result of Covid 19......
They are disgusting, polluting hunks of metal....spilling waste into the oceans...they are disgraceful....shocking and filthy.....
I've had to bite my tongue because I have built up some Covid rapprochement with BigG...but cruise ships...let's please write their epitaph....
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
I cycle a lot of the time and round here there’s no real reason to use the road as there are nice bike routes through the parks and country that are actually shortcuts. I cycle to the gym and it takes 30 mins, to drive takes about 18.
Just drive to Aldi though... spent £134. Just going to phone the Stock Exchange as I think that makes me the majority shareholder
But, rationally, lying down sunbathing (alone or with members of your own household) is far less likely to spread the virus than running around. If you want to be really careful exercise at home where you won't be breathing heavily in anyone else's airspace, then go to the park for fresh air and to see some greenery - which has proven health benefits.
There seems to be an irrational response based on a kind of moralistic feeling that people shouldn't be indulging in anything enjoyable.
It would make much more sense to tell people to wear masks when near other people, than policing whether someone is "exercising" or not.
Similarly with the ridiculous attempts to police "non-essential" purchases.
Try living in a city like Oxford where the bike lobby is very active in seeking to assert their dominance over the public realm.
Ah so you live in Oxford. Dreaming spires and all that. Excellent.
Should it come as a shock that someone who includes the word 'oxford' in their profile name actually has a connection to that location? Did you think I was trying to bamboozle people by way of a double bluff?
In reality, I no longer live in the city - but my new location isn't quite as iconic.
Try living in a city like Oxford where the bike lobby is very active in seeking to assert their dominance over the public realm.
Ah so you live in Oxford. Dreaming spires and all that. Excellent.
Should it come as a shock that someone who includes the word 'oxford' in their profile name actually has a connection to that location? Did you think I was trying to bamboozle people by way of a double bluff?
In reality, I no longer live in the city - but my new location isn't quite as iconic.
I'm back there......where did you live in Oxford?
I was in Jericho until last summer - when my landlords decided to sell out from under us (after 17 years)
Good luck to the officers having to explain why X can’t sunbathe and Y can do isometric exercises. Heaven forfend that anyone might enjoy themselves now in a way the busybodies don’t approve of.
It would be simpler and fairer just to close the parks if social distancing is not being observed.
Should it come as a shock that someone who includes the word 'oxford' in their profile name actually has a connection to that location? Did you think I was trying to bamboozle people by way of a double bluff?
In reality, I no longer live in the city - but my new location isn't quite as iconic.
Can't assume on the internet. So you DON'T live in Oxford but used to. Fair enough. I like to know where people live but it's rude - sinister even - to come straight out and ask. You gave me an opening there with your post. But I'm none the wiser as it turns out.
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
Try living in a city like Oxford where the bike lobby is very active in seeking to assert their dominance over the public realm.
Ah so you live in Oxford. Dreaming spires and all that. Excellent.
Should it come as a shock that someone who includes the word 'oxford' in their profile name actually has a connection to that location? Did you think I was trying to bamboozle people by way of a double bluff?
In reality, I no longer live in the city - but my new location isn't quite as iconic.
I'm back there......where did you live in Oxford?
I was in Jericho until last summer - when my landlords decided to sell out from under us (after 17 years)
I am now 5 miles north...
I'm central north...equi distant from Summertown, and Jericho...our walk today included University Parks, the Meadows and a Canal path...2 hours of sheer loveliness...most people are good at social distancing, except the joggers
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
That study isn’t all that surprising given the low case/death rate there. Doubt the UK is as low as that.
I fail to see why a tighter definition is needed? After all sunbathing or picknicking alone in the park keeps greater social distancing than jogging, cycling or walking through it with a group of other people.
How long do you you think they would be on their own? Within two hours the park would be packed With people doing the same thing, the kids would organize a footy game and the adults would pool their booze.
Quite. The problem with the sunbathers and picnickers has nothing to do with the nature of the activity per se and everything to do with population density and interaction.
If you could guarantee that the total number of such individuals and little household groups scattered across a park was only about six, and they were all spaced a hundred metres apart, then nobody would care. But because lots of people all turn up to do the activity at once then social distancing becomes very difficult. Even if the adults keep apart from each other religiously then you can bet they'll struggle to prevent the kids from running around with each other.
The best thing to do is to get people to keep moving about and, therefore, to stop the parks from getting too crowded.
On the contrary, bar the people who are moving about (whether joggers or children). The people staying in one spot are no problem.
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
Albeit... "The study, conducted from 1-6 April, tested 1,554 people. It did not involve antibody tests, which can tell whether a person was previously infected and is therefore probably immune. Future studies should involve antibody tests, the government has said, to inform policy as the country starts to reopen shops from 14 April."
So not really a great study when the number of active cases in Austria was: i) low to begin with and ii) has been squashed by their lockdown...
The first pledge I think Boris should junk after this is the one to increase police numbers by 20,000 officers. The way they've carried on during this crisis that could prove to be extremely unpopular and it's an obvious way of keeping a lid on spending.
They've demonstrated they have plenty of resources to interfere with our lives as it is when they really want to - so all those old excuses that they're too busy to investigate a burglary or anti social behaviour can go straight out the window.
But, rationally, lying down sunbathing (alone or with members of your own household) is far less likely to spread the virus than running around. If you want to be really careful exercise at home where you won't be breathing heavily in anyone else's airspace, then go to the park for fresh air and to see some greenery - which has proven health benefits.
There seems to be an irrational response based on a kind of moralistic feeling that people shouldn't be indulging in anything enjoyable.
It would make much more sense to tell people to wear masks when near other people, than policing whether someone is "exercising" or not.
Similarly with the ridiculous attempts to police "non-essential" purchases.
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
Joggers...joggers...that's my pet hate...selfish, germ spreading, disease ridden heavy breathers who do not respect your space....
To be fair you have a lot of pet hates. At least you've moved on from cruise ships.
Do not please mention cruise ships....I hope that industry is kyboshed for good....that would be a wonderful result of Covid 19......
They are disgusting, polluting hunks of metal....spilling waste into the oceans...they are disgraceful....shocking and filthy.....
I've had to bite my tongue because I have built up some Covid rapprochement with BigG...but cruise ships...let's please write their epitaph....
We are not going to fall out over cruise ships Tyson
My wife and I have enjoyed worldwide travel by land and cruise ships over the last 15 years and feel so blessed that we have so many travel experiences and seen many places you can only access by ship
Maybe because my wife and I have a maritime history and love of the sea that we went on so many, but we are saddened by their possible demise and certainly we would not go on a cruise ship now, but we had decided that before covid 19
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
That study isn’t all that surprising given the low case/death rate there. Doubt the UK is as low as that.
My friend said a 2-5% infection rate who is very close to the thick of it...
I don't think people understand that once the NHS collapses...we have nowhere to treat the dead and dying of any illness, injury or disease....
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
Try living in a city like Oxford where the bike lobby is very active in seeking to assert their dominance over the public realm.
Ah so you live in Oxford. Dreaming spires and all that. Excellent.
Should it come as a shock that someone who includes the word 'oxford' in their profile name actually has a connection to that location? Did you think I was trying to bamboozle people by way of a double bluff?
In reality, I no longer live in the city - but my new location isn't quite as iconic.
I'm back there......where did you live in Oxford?
I was in Jericho until last summer - when my landlords decided to sell out from under us (after 17 years)
I am now 5 miles north...
I'm central north...equi distant from Summertown, and Jericho...our walk today included University Parks, the Meadows and a Canal path...2 hours of sheer loveliness...most people are good at social distancing, except the joggers
A lovely part of the city in which to live. Access to some decent shops and restaurants (when they aren't shut down!)
Once you get beyond the ring road (as I now find myself), things get a little less cosmopolitan.
I am still working to improve the city - by campaigning against the idiotic changes they have made to Walton Street. But that is another story.
(FPT)This is a serious challenge to Mike's conventional wisdom of what determines elections... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/joe-biden-democratic-nominee-why.html ...This has been true all along—and perhaps mysteriously, it has worked to Biden’s advantage. While Sanders and Elizabeth Warren supporters were louder, had an enormous online footprint, and advanced arguments and issues that have changed the party, it was Biden voters who turned out in droves in the primary, despite their silence online. This has made the nominee’s victory feel confusing. It demands an explanation that common-sense theories about how political enthusiasm, exposure, and airtime should affect turnout cannot provide. Despite an apparent lack of enthusiastic adherents, an associated lack of funds, underwhelming debate performances, and no clear agenda, Biden floated to victory. The question is why—and can whatever powered him to the top do the same in the general?...
Up to a point, Lord Copper.
Trump's tweets have left voters exhausted by politics? -- explains the success of Get Brexit Done over here.
Biden's information-free campaigning appeals to voters? -- fails to explain why Mayor Pete is not nominee after his campaign for niceness or whatever it was he wanted.
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
That study isn’t all that surprising given the low case/death rate there. Doubt the UK is as low as that.
My friend said a 2-5% infection rate who is very close to the thick of it...
I don't think people understand that once the NHS collapses...we have nowhere to treat the dead and dying of any illness, injury or disease....
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
Joggers...joggers...that's my pet hate...selfish, germ spreading, disease ridden heavy breathers who do not respect your space....
To be fair you have a lot of pet hates. At least you've moved on from cruise ships.
Do not please mention cruise ships....I hope that industry is kyboshed for good....that would be a wonderful result of Covid 19......
They are disgusting, polluting hunks of metal....spilling waste into the oceans...they are disgraceful....shocking and filthy.....
I've had to bite my tongue because I have built up some Covid rapprochement with BigG...but cruise ships...let's please write their epitaph....
We are not going to fall out over cruise ships Tyson
My wife and I have enjoyed worldwide travel by land and cruise ships over the last 15 years and feel so blessed that we have so many travel experiences and seen many places you can only access by ship
Maybe because my wife and I have a maritime history and love of the sea that we went on so many, but we are saddened by their possible demise and certainly we would not go on a cruise ship now, but we had decided that before covid 19
Cruises will continue, especially for older people and the retired for whom they offer a great opportunity to travel to multiple places at once, catered for with little effort required from the passengers and with plenty of other people for company
But, rationally, lying down sunbathing (alone or with members of your own household) is far less likely to spread the virus than running around. If you want to be really careful exercise at home where you won't be breathing heavily in anyone else's airspace, then go to the park for fresh air and to see some greenery - which has proven health benefits.
You can't do any useful cardiovascular exercise at home, unless you're lucky enough to have found yourself at the start of this outbreak in possession of at least one piece of bulky, expensive stationary kit (e.g. a treadmill or exercise bike) on which to do it, which means in turn that you must also have the large amount of space to house such a piece of clutter.
For a large slice of the population, these are luxuries that are beyond our means. We can't even jog round and round in circles in our gardens until we get dizzy, because we don't have those either. Nor am I convinced that passing someone at speed is likely to be any more hazardous to either you or them than sitting still in the same place for a couple of hours, once the persons in question are sufficiently densely packed, as is the risk if a park becomes sufficiently crowded.
Of course, whatever risks there are to outdoor exercise can be mitigated by other means, such as pacing the streets instead of going to the park in the first place, or going out early or late - although I don't think that makes much difference outside of some very densely populated city areas in any event. I pass very few other people when I'm out running, regardless of what time of day it is.
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
That study isn’t all that surprising given the low case/death rate there. Doubt the UK is as low as that.
My friend said a 2-5% infection rate who is very close to the thick of it...
I don't think people understand that once the NHS collapses...we have nowhere to treat the dead and dying of any illness, injury or disease....
We are in this thing for the long haul.....
I think you are over-interpreting the word collapse there. Care will continue, it just won't be sufficient for some/many (depending on how case numbers compare to capacity).
The first pledge I think Boris should junk after this is the one to increase police numbers by 20,000 officers. The way they've carried on during this crisis that could prove to be extremely unpopular and it's an obvious way of keeping a lid on spending.
They've demonstrated they have plenty of resources to interfere with our lives as it is when they really want to - so all those old excuses that they're too busy to investigate a burglary or anti social behaviour can go straight out the window.
They have the resources now because crime is probably at an historic low.
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
There's a gap in the market for a costume that extends in a two metre radius outside the body (maybe big circular clown pants or something). Put in on and leave the house and, voila, you are automatically abiding by the regulations.
Sounds like in Moscow it is getting close to overwhelming the system.
"The deputy mayor said almost all new patients had pneumonia, brought on by coronavirus. She warned that both hospitals and the ambulance service were stretched to their limit.
That is clear from the first-hand accounts of medics, who are beginning to talk of a non-stop flow of ambulances and of overflowing wards."
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
Joggers...joggers...that's my pet hate...selfish, germ spreading, disease ridden heavy breathers who do not respect your space....
To be fair you have a lot of pet hates. At least you've moved on from cruise ships.
Do not please mention cruise ships....I hope that industry is kyboshed for good....that would be a wonderful result of Covid 19......
They are disgusting, polluting hunks of metal....spilling waste into the oceans...they are disgraceful....shocking and filthy.....
I've had to bite my tongue because I have built up some Covid rapprochement with BigG...but cruise ships...let's please write their epitaph....
We are not going to fall out over cruise ships Tyson
My wife and I have enjoyed worldwide travel by land and cruise ships over the last 15 years and feel so blessed that we have so many travel experiences and seen many places you can only access by ship
Maybe because my wife and I have a maritime history and love of the sea that we went on so many, but we are saddened by their possible demise and certainly we would not go on a cruise ship now, but we had decided that before covid 19
I'm not going to fall out with you BigG...I was particularly horrible to you one time over Theresa May (as well as cruise ships)..there is a part of the decent paternal, Tory establishment that I particularly like, and which you clearly identify yourself with....
I'm a socialist hypocrite anyway...I own a number of properties which I don't need...but (as per Richard Tyndall)...I'm enjoying the simple life..I'm even doing stuff that my mum used to do, like not throwing away jam jars and the like and using them to store things like my veggie stock cubes....
Sounds like in Moscow it is getting close to overwhelming the system.
"The deputy mayor said almost all new patients had pneumonia, brought on by coronavirus. She warned that both hospitals and the ambulance service were stretched to their limit.
That is clear from the first-hand accounts of medics, who are beginning to talk of a non-stop flow of ambulances and of overflowing wards."
The first pledge I think Boris should junk after this is the one to increase police numbers by 20,000 officers. The way they've carried on during this crisis that could prove to be extremely unpopular and it's an obvious way of keeping a lid on spending.
They've demonstrated they have plenty of resources to interfere with our lives as it is when they really want to - so all those old excuses that they're too busy to investigate a burglary or anti social behaviour can go straight out the window.
They have the resources now because crime is probably at an historic low.
Hard to go burgling when everyone is at home. Apart from all those suddenly vacant London first homes, of course.
Sounds like in Moscow it is getting close to overwhelming the system.
"The deputy mayor said almost all new patients had pneumonia, brought on by coronavirus. She warned that both hospitals and the ambulance service were stretched to their limit.
That is clear from the first-hand accounts of medics, who are beginning to talk of a non-stop flow of ambulances and of overflowing wards."
Not that we will ever know the true figures.
There have been no reliable sightings of Vladimir Putin for weeks.
On topic, I’ve biked 200 miles in the last seven days without leaving my house.
The government should provide each household with a cross trainer/treadmill/exercise bike so there’ll be no need to go out for exercise.
I assume that this is an attempt at humour.
The Government doesn't have a supply of approximately 23 million exercise machines to dole out, and even if they did then it would take months to deliver them. This also assumes that families living in shoebox apartments and rabbit hutch houses have room for big pieces of bulky machinery in the first place.
Does it need a ban ? The two activities hardly seem complementary.
They need banning because they do not respect 2 meters....many of them...on our walk today I had to tell at least 10 to make some kind of assessment of what 2 meters is....
If they are part of the same household then you don't need to respect the two meter rule.
My household is precisely 2 people and a dog...not even a proper dog, a walking accessory called Trotsky.. though she is much loved....
Joggers are spluttering, coughing, wheezing and panting as they heave past you not respecting your space...ban them, ban them now, and ban them forever....and if they carry on, lock them up and put them in that sex offenders prison...
You realise that you also can step to one side?
Why should he? If joggers jogged on the road there'd be no problem.
Quite joggers and bloody cyclists heaving away with big breathes. Have these people no fucking brains
At least cyclists normally have the decency to use the roads. Children on a bike using the pavement I can excuse but juoggers thinking its appropriate at the moment to use the pavement for their jogging? Its madness.
The pavement should be reserved for children, pets and adults walking only during this pandemic.
Slightly concerned that all these furious PBers, welsh-howl, tyson etc, will give themselves coronaries. Perhaps they need to take up cycling for their health - cyclists tend to live longer.
One of the big problems we have in the UK is that the authorities think that cyclists should be encouraged to cycle on pavements through shared pathways, rather than make proper investment in proper segregated infrastructure.
Round here all the defined cycle paths seem to have anticycling pinch points on them. There are literally hundreds of them just in my LA area.
Joggers...joggers...that's my pet hate...selfish, germ spreading, disease ridden heavy breathers who do not respect your space....
To be fair you have a lot of pet hates. At least you've moved on from cruise ships.
Do not please mention cruise ships....I hope that industry is kyboshed for good....that would be a wonderful result of Covid 19......
They are disgusting, polluting hunks of metal....spilling waste into the oceans...they are disgraceful....shocking and filthy.....
I've had to bite my tongue because I have built up some Covid rapprochement with BigG...but cruise ships...let's please write their epitaph....
We are not going to fall out over cruise ships Tyson
My wife and I have enjoyed worldwide travel by land and cruise ships over the last 15 years and feel so blessed that we have so many travel experiences and seen many places you can only access by ship
Maybe because my wife and I have a maritime history and love of the sea that we went on so many, but we are saddened by their possible demise and certainly we would not go on a cruise ship now, but we had decided that before covid 19
Cruises will continue, especially for older people and the retired for whom they offer a great opportunity to travel to multiple places at once, catered for with little effort required from the passengers and with plenty of other people for company
The older passengers have always had a fear of 'norovirus infection' that can and does spread like wildfire through cruise ships but accepted the risk, but until this virus is slain worldwide it would be a very foolish elderly passenger to go on a cruise with the history of this virus on cruise ships and the ship facing quarantining for weeks and 'persona non gratia' in many ports
Also the travel insurance will be massively expensive and almost certainly exclude covid
Tyson is right, not because he dislikes cruise ships, but because of the passengers experiences and the terrible publicity they have suffered
They may well recover like the airlines, but do not expect there to be as many of either
I know several avid cruise passengers who have 'avoded' not to cruise again
Sounds like in Moscow it is getting close to overwhelming the system.
"The deputy mayor said almost all new patients had pneumonia, brought on by coronavirus. She warned that both hospitals and the ambulance service were stretched to their limit.
That is clear from the first-hand accounts of medics, who are beginning to talk of a non-stop flow of ambulances and of overflowing wards."
Not that we will ever know the true figures.
There have been no reliable sightings of Vladimir Putin for weeks.
To be honest, I was shocked at how many world leaders carried on as normal. If they had been a chemical weapons attack, there is no way even the giant orange one would have been anywhere but in a remote vault.
I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Putin is tucked up in some such facility.
The first pledge I think Boris should junk after this is the one to increase police numbers by 20,000 officers. The way they've carried on during this crisis that could prove to be extremely unpopular and it's an obvious way of keeping a lid on spending.
They've demonstrated they have plenty of resources to interfere with our lives as it is when they really want to - so all those old excuses that they're too busy to investigate a burglary or anti social behaviour can go straight out the window.
They have the resources now because crime is probably at an historic low.
Hard to go burgling when everyone is at home. Apart from all those suddenly vacant London first homes, of course.
Jenrick owns two des reses in London that may be vacant.
On topic, I’ve biked 200 miles in the last seven days without leaving my house.
The government should provide each household with a cross trainer/treadmill/exercise bike so there’ll be no need to go out for exercise.
I assume that this is an attempt at humour.
The Government doesn't have a supply of approximately 23 million exercise machines to dole out, and even if they did then it would take months to deliver them. This also assumes that families living in shoebox apartments and rabbit hutch houses have room for big pieces of bulky machinery in the first place.
Apart from that it's a brilliant idea.
The government can temporarily requisition the equipment from all those closed gyms.
We’re half way there.
If people don’t have space for the big equipment then give them kettlebells and other smaller stuff.
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
Albeit... "The study, conducted from 1-6 April, tested 1,554 people. It did not involve antibody tests, which can tell whether a person was previously infected and is therefore probably immune. Future studies should involve antibody tests, the government has said, to inform policy as the country starts to reopen shops from 14 April."
So not really a great study when the number of active cases in Austria was: i) low to begin with and ii) has been squashed by their lockdown...
Still, if it doesn't include asymptomatic infections, it suggests that multiplying deaths by 1000 gives a reasonable rough estimate for the number who have been infected.
I fail to see why a tighter definition is needed? After all sunbathing or picknicking alone in the park keeps greater social distancing than jogging, cycling or walking through it with a group of other people.
How long do you you think they would be on their own? Within two hours the park would be packed With people doing the same thing, the kids would organize a footy game and the adults would pool their booze.
Quite. The problem with the sunbathers and picnickers has nothing to do with the nature of the activity per se and everything to do with population density and interaction.
If you could guarantee that the total number of such individuals and little household groups scattered across a park was only about six, and they were all spaced a hundred metres apart, then nobody would care. But because lots of people all turn up to do the activity at once then social distancing becomes very difficult. Even if the adults keep apart from each other religiously then you can bet they'll struggle to prevent the kids from running around with each other.
The best thing to do is to get people to keep moving about and, therefore, to stop the parks from getting too crowded.
On the contrary, bar the people who are moving about (whether joggers or children). The people staying in one spot are no problem.
'The public should be able to go outside in the sunshine as it helps 'destroy' coronavirus, a top immunologist has said.
I`m wondering whether the criticisms of joggers and cyclists that copiously populate this thread are being made by people who already disliked joggers and cyclists (i.e. before Covid-19)?
The first pledge I think Boris should junk after this is the one to increase police numbers by 20,000 officers. The way they've carried on during this crisis that could prove to be extremely unpopular and it's an obvious way of keeping a lid on spending.
They've demonstrated they have plenty of resources to interfere with our lives as it is when they really want to - so all those old excuses that they're too busy to investigate a burglary or anti social behaviour can go straight out the window.
They have the resources now because crime is probably at an historic low.
Hard to go burgling when everyone is at home. Apart from all those suddenly vacant London first homes, of course.
Shop lifting a bit trickier as well, the old one in old out, no loitering and the bissies spying on the non-essential aisles.
I`m wondering whether the criticisms of joggers and cyclists that copiously populate this thread are being made by people who already disliked joggers and cyclists (i.e. before Covid-19)?
I’ve always loved joggers, well horizontal joggers.
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
And yet our hospitals seem to be coping better than Italy and Spain. Now, obviously we're restricted to a certain extent by what we see on TV, but given how bad our numbers are - and, as you say, they are restricted to hospital deaths - there does seem to be a disconnect with what's happening in hospitals.
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
Until we also have the UK care home figures France can still be said to have the highest rise in the death rate in Europe.
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The UK also locked down about a week or 2 after most of Europe so inevitably it will take longer for the UK to pass the peak too (albeit Sweden is still not in lockdown).
Other than that the UK is about at the European average, though it could expand testing much further as Germany has if it really wants to cut the rate further than average
Sounds like in Moscow it is getting close to overwhelming the system.
"The deputy mayor said almost all new patients had pneumonia, brought on by coronavirus. She warned that both hospitals and the ambulance service were stretched to their limit.
That is clear from the first-hand accounts of medics, who are beginning to talk of a non-stop flow of ambulances and of overflowing wards."
Not that we will ever know the true figures.
There have been no reliable sightings of Vladimir Putin for weeks.
To be honest, I was shocked at how many world leaders carried on as normal. If they had been a chemical weapons attack, there is no way even the giant orange one would have been anywhere but in a remote vault.
I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Putin is tucked up in some such facility.
I’d agree, were it not for the fact that Russian TV has purported to put out new coverage of him that is apparently a month old. Odd.
On topic, I’ve biked 200 miles in the last seven days without leaving my house.
The government should provide each household with a cross trainer/treadmill/exercise bike so there’ll be no need to go out for exercise.
I assume that this is an attempt at humour.
The Government doesn't have a supply of approximately 23 million exercise machines to dole out, and even if they did then it would take months to deliver them. This also assumes that families living in shoebox apartments and rabbit hutch houses have room for big pieces of bulky machinery in the first place.
Apart from that it's a brilliant idea.
The government can temporarily requisition the equipment from all those closed gyms.
We’re half way there.
If people don’t have space for the big equipment then give them kettlebells and other smaller stuff.
There was quite a funny story that a Northampton Saints player was well ahead of the game when it came to thinking there was going to be a long term lockdown....so over the course of several weeks was half inching various bits of kit one by one like something out of the Great Escape, to the extent where he now has an incredible home gym.
I`m wondering whether the criticisms of joggers and cyclists that copiously populate this thread are being made by people who already disliked joggers and cyclists (i.e. before Covid-19)?
I'm a jogger...I can still do 8 min mile pace for 5 or 6 miles, possibly more....and low 7 min mile pace for upto 3 miles
There are though a significant amount of joggers here though who do not respect social distance....
I fail to see why a tighter definition is needed? After all sunbathing or picknicking alone in the park keeps greater social distancing than jogging, cycling or walking through it with a group of other people.
How long do you you think they would be on their own? Within two hours the park would be packed With people doing the same thing, the kids would organize a footy game and the adults would pool their booze.
Quite. The problem with the sunbathers and picnickers has nothing to do with the nature of the activity per se and everything to do with population density and interaction.
If you could guarantee that the total number of such individuals and little household groups scattered across a park was only about six, and they were all spaced a hundred metres apart, then nobody would care. But because lots of people all turn up to do the activity at once then social distancing becomes very difficult. Even if the adults keep apart from each other religiously then you can bet they'll struggle to prevent the kids from running around with each other.
The best thing to do is to get people to keep moving about and, therefore, to stop the parks from getting too crowded.
On the contrary, bar the people who are moving about (whether joggers or children). The people staying in one spot are no problem.
'The public should be able to go outside in the sunshine as it helps 'destroy' coronavirus, a top immunologist has said.
But, rationally, lying down sunbathing (alone or with members of your own household) is far less likely to spread the virus than running around. If you want to be really careful exercise at home where you won't be breathing heavily in anyone else's airspace, then go to the park for fresh air and to see some greenery - which has proven health benefits.
You can't do any useful cardiovascular exercise at home, unless you're lucky enough to have found yourself at the start of this outbreak in possession of at least one piece of bulky, expensive stationary kit (e.g. a treadmill or exercise bike) on which to do it, which means in turn that you must also have the large amount of space to house such a piece of clutter.
For a large slice of the population, these are luxuries that are beyond our means. We can't even jog round and round in circles in our gardens until we get dizzy, because we don't have those either. Nor am I convinced that passing someone at speed is likely to be any more hazardous to either you or them than sitting still in the same place for a couple of hours, once the persons in question are sufficiently densely packed, as is the risk if a park becomes sufficiently crowded.
Of course, whatever risks there are to outdoor exercise can be mitigated by other means, such as pacing the streets instead of going to the park in the first place, or going out early or late - although I don't think that makes much difference outside of some very densely populated city areas in any event. I pass very few other people when I'm out running, regardless of what time of day it is.
Have to say that this is complete BS. I do 30-40 minutes in my lounge every day. Press Ups Sit Ups Burpees Leg Kicks Sprint on the spot Lifting small weights Step on chair etc etc
Its easy to find exercises online and you could literally spend as long as you want without repetition and getting bored. Fittest i've been in decades (except when i hurt my calf going full on!)
Sounds like in Moscow it is getting close to overwhelming the system.
"The deputy mayor said almost all new patients had pneumonia, brought on by coronavirus. She warned that both hospitals and the ambulance service were stretched to their limit.
That is clear from the first-hand accounts of medics, who are beginning to talk of a non-stop flow of ambulances and of overflowing wards."
Not that we will ever know the true figures.
There have been no reliable sightings of Vladimir Putin for weeks.
To be honest, I was shocked at how many world leaders carried on as normal. If they had been a chemical weapons attack, there is no way even the giant orange one would have been anywhere but in a remote vault.
I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Putin is tucked up in some such facility.
I’d agree, were it not for the fact that Russian TV has purported to put out new coverage of him that is apparently a month old. Odd.
Could it not simply be face saving, given that Putin makes this huge play on what a big tough fearless guy he is, and hiding away in a Siberian bunker doesn't exactly go well with that image.
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
Until we also have the UK care home figures France can still be said to have the highest rise in the death rate in Europe.
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The only proper comparison can be made is with hospital deaths. The UK has reported the worst anywhere in Europe . That’s it . And given the UK had an advantage in seeing what was coming and more time to prepare then that’s very poor .
You seem to want to spin this but that looks a bit desperate .
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
Until we also have the UK care home figures France can still be said to have the highest rise in the death rate in Europe.
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The UK also locked down about a week or 2 after most of Europe so inevitably it will take longer for the UK to pass the peak too.
Other than that the UK is about at the European average, though it could expand testing much further as Germany has if it really wants to cut the rate further than average
I had contacts last night from friends in Italy who were asking what the hell was going wrong in the UK? Rai Uno was reporting the UK is set to do the worst out all the Western European economies...
Perhaps though the request for vets to work for the NHS tells us that it isn't quite all right..
I`m wondering whether the criticisms of joggers and cyclists that copiously populate this thread are being made by people who already disliked joggers and cyclists (i.e. before Covid-19)?
Possibly, but the idea they have a potential slipstream of virus trailing behind them has hardly helped their cause.
That, and so many acting like entited dicks for weeks now.
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
Until we also have the UK care home figures France can still be said to have the highest rise in the death rate in Europe.
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The only proper comparison can be made is with hospital deaths. The UK has reported the worst anywhere in Europe . That’s it . And given the UK had an advantage in seeing what was coming and more time to prepare then that’s very poor .
You seem to want to spin this but that looks a bit desperate .
The reported deaths in English hospitals for yesterday was actually 140. The other deaths occurred before then and are only now being recorded.
You are the one who seems to want to spin this and to score points.
On topic, I’ve biked 200 miles in the last seven days without leaving my house.
The government should provide each household with a cross trainer/treadmill/exercise bike so there’ll be no need to go out for exercise.
I assume that this is an attempt at humour.
The Government doesn't have a supply of approximately 23 million exercise machines to dole out, and even if they did then it would take months to deliver them. This also assumes that families living in shoebox apartments and rabbit hutch houses have room for big pieces of bulky machinery in the first place.
Apart from that it's a brilliant idea.
The government can temporarily requisition the equipment from all those closed gyms.
We’re half way there.
If people don’t have space for the big equipment then give them kettlebells and other smaller stuff.
The local leisure centre caters to the population of the town (about 15,000 people) plus many thousands more in the immediate surrounding rural area.
It has five cross trainers, two rowing machines, nine or ten treadmills and about half-a-dozen assorted stationary bikes.
Even if there's the same amount of equipment again in the two (much smaller) private gyms in town, that's only enough for about fifty households.
We are not half-way there.
The numbers of complete sets of weights available are negligible, though in any event they are useless for cardiovascular exercise which is, of course, what almost everyone going outside (for walking, running and cycling) is actually up to. Strength training is the one thing that expressly isn't a problem in lockdown: that can be done in a limited space and without equipment, if push comes to shove.
Super-rich holidaymakers consisting of 7 men in their 40s-50s and 3 women in their early-mid 20s. Money truly doesn't buy class.
A motley crew of nationalities apparently as well. Apparently based in London. Still Ms Patel would rather have them than doctors, nurses and care staff.
The first pledge I think Boris should junk after this is the one to increase police numbers by 20,000 officers. The way they've carried on during this crisis that could prove to be extremely unpopular and it's an obvious way of keeping a lid on spending.
They've demonstrated they have plenty of resources to interfere with our lives as it is when they really want to - so all those old excuses that they're too busy to investigate a burglary or anti social behaviour can go straight out the window.
They have the resources now because crime is probably at an historic low.
Not sure about that given that much of the crime they no longer have to deal with (like burglary and robbery) they weren't bothering trying to stop or clear up anyway.
Got to be at least a month locked in a room having to listen to Radiohead Live at Glastonbury 24/7, while only been fed coconut water and Hawaiian pizza.
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
Until we also have the UK care home figures France can still be said to have the highest rise in the death rate in Europe.
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The UK also locked down about a week or 2 after most of Europe so inevitably it will take longer for the UK to pass the peak too.
Other than that the UK is about at the European average, though it could expand testing much further as Germany has if it really wants to cut the rate further than average
I had contacts last night from friends in Italy who were asking what the hell was going wrong in the UK? Rai Uno was reporting the UK is set to do the worst out all the Western European economies...
Perhaps though the request for vets to work for the NHS tells us that it isn't quite all right..
I`m wondering whether the criticisms of joggers and cyclists that copiously populate this thread are being made by people who already disliked joggers and cyclists (i.e. before Covid-19)?
I'm a jogger...I can still do 8 min mile pace for 5 or 6 miles, possibly more....and low 7 min mile pace for upto 3 miles
There are though a significant amount of joggers here though who do not respect social distance....
There are a very significant number of people that you run past who have no spatial awareness and string themselves across the width or paths or lanes. I have a regular circuit that I have been doing for years and I have never seen so many people on it walking even at night. They aren't all family parties either unless the parents and kids are all about the same age....
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
Until we also have the UK care home figures France can still be said to have the highest rise in the death rate in Europe.
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The only proper comparison can be made is with hospital deaths. The UK has reported the worst anywhere in Europe . That’s it . And given the UK had an advantage in seeing what was coming and more time to prepare then that’s very poor .
You seem to want to spin this but that looks a bit desperate .
The reported deaths in English hospitals for yesterday was actually 140. The other deaths occurred before then and are only now being recorded.
I`m wondering whether the criticisms of joggers and cyclists that copiously populate this thread are being made by people who already disliked joggers and cyclists (i.e. before Covid-19)?
I'm a jogger...I can still do 8 min mile pace for 5 or 6 miles, possibly more....and low 7 min mile pace for upto 3 miles
There are though a significant amount of joggers here though who do not respect social distance....
There are a significant number of arseholes who jog.
On topic, I’ve biked 200 miles in the last seven days without leaving my house.
The government should provide each household with a cross trainer/treadmill/exercise bike so there’ll be no need to go out for exercise.
I assume that this is an attempt at humour.
The Government doesn't have a supply of approximately 23 million exercise machines to dole out, and even if they did then it would take months to deliver them. This also assumes that families living in shoebox apartments and rabbit hutch houses have room for big pieces of bulky machinery in the first place.
Apart from that it's a brilliant idea.
The government can temporarily requisition the equipment from all those closed gyms.
We’re half way there.
If people don’t have space for the big equipment then give them kettlebells and other smaller stuff.
The local leisure centre caters to the population of the town (about 15,000 people) plus many thousands more in the immediate surrounding rural area.
It has five cross trainers, two rowing machines, nine or ten treadmills and about half-a-dozen assorted stationary bikes.
Even if there's the same amount of equipment again in the two (much smaller) private gyms in town, that's only enough for about fifty households.
We are not half-way there.
The numbers of complete sets of weights available are negligible, though in any event they are useless for cardiovascular exercise which is, of course, what almost everyone going outside (for walking, running and cycling) is actually up to. Strength training is the one thing that expressly isn't a problem in lockdown: that can be done in a limited space and without equipment, if push comes to shove.
My tongue was somewhere in the vicinity of my cheek with these comments.
I'm fortunate I live in a big house, with a big garden, and the resources to buy some exercise equipment when a lockdown was looking inevitable.
I said the other day people in big glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
I understand why people are allowed to go out, my friend's claustrophobia is back, and the hour outside helps her immensely.
I suspect for her and many other people a significant minority will ruin it for them.
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
Until we also have the UK care home figures France can still be said to have the highest rise in the death rate in Europe.
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The only proper comparison can be made is with hospital deaths. The UK has reported the worst anywhere in Europe . That’s it . And given the UK had an advantage in seeing what was coming and more time to prepare then that’s very poor .
You seem to want to spin this but that looks a bit desperate .
The reported deaths in English hospitals for yesterday was actually 140. The other deaths occurred before then and are only now being recorded.
You are the one who seems to want to spin this and to score points.
It really isn't a helpful position to take.
For facts on the relative reporting systems, may I recommend you look at
BBC are reporting that Cornwall Council are encouraging people to report those who are seen entering their second home.
Whilst I do understand the need for proper safeguards and controls, encouraging neighbours to spy on one another is not something I want to see become commonplace in our society.
Last night, there was a car parked outside of where I live that has no connection to the locality as far as I can tell. It was there for several hours - so it wasn't someone just dropping off supplies to help someone.
I didn't report it - because that is not how my mind works.
Perhaps I am watching too much of Spooks on iPlayer - but I am wary of this trend
So thats 953 hospital deaths reported in UK today - Europes highest I believe
1,417 died in France reported yesterday and they have not yet reported today.
Per head the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing higher increases in death rates than the UK
That includes care homes so you can’t use that comparison. The UK total today is the worst in Europe . Somethings gone badly wrong in the UK .
Until we also have the UK care home figures France can still be said to have the highest rise in the death rate in Europe.
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The only proper comparison can be made is with hospital deaths. The UK has reported the worst anywhere in Europe . That’s it . And given the UK had an advantage in seeing what was coming and more time to prepare then that’s very poor .
You seem to want to spin this but that looks a bit desperate .
The UK is currently behind Italy, Spain and France in both Covid 19 cases and deaths.
We locked down slightly later so it will take slightly longer to pass the peak but beyond that we are doing average, no worse than most European countries really but not as well as Germany.
I know the left are desperate to spin this as an anti Tory story but it really is pathetic
Comments
If I'm going through a set of traffic lights I don't think about the cyclist respecting the lights. I do think about the idiots that don't think the red light applied to them.
This would not be a huge financial burden on anyone - but it is surely appropriate to require all road users to abide by the same sort of rules.
The majority of car drivers don't have accidents - but we still require them all to have insurance.
And it is not 'semi-professional' cyclists who are the main issue. It is any cyclist who doesn't show any regards to those around them.
its moderately interesting reading.
Thank you for your comments. I must admit though that I am reassured that that your opinion will have no say on public policy, but thank you all the same...
If you could guarantee that the total number of such individuals and little household groups scattered across a park was only about six, and they were all spaced a hundred metres apart, then nobody would care. But because lots of people all turn up to do the activity at once then social distancing becomes very difficult. Even if the adults keep apart from each other religiously then you can bet they'll struggle to prevent the kids from running around with each other.
The best thing to do is to get people to keep moving about and, therefore, to stop the parks from getting too crowded.
In reality, I no longer live in the city - but my new location isn't quite as iconic.
I am getting onto clearing away the clutter and old growth. As a general principle how much of the old growth still on plants, detritus on the ground etc should be cleared up at the start of the season? Should I spend time clearing all of these bits, for example? What should be left?
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1248620224904957952
(Question 10a Never noticed before, but various furious people are fulminating about cyclists. Is there a meaning behind your user name? I always took it as a linear outlook on the world
Do not please mention cruise ships....I hope that industry is kyboshed for good....that would be a wonderful result of Covid 19......
They are disgusting, polluting hunks of metal....spilling waste into the oceans...they are disgraceful....shocking and filthy.....
I've had to bite my tongue because I have built up some Covid rapprochement with BigG...but cruise ships...let's please write their epitaph....
Just drive to Aldi though... spent £134. Just going to phone the Stock Exchange as I think that makes me the majority shareholder
There seems to be an irrational response based on a kind of moralistic feeling that people shouldn't be indulging in anything enjoyable.
It would make much more sense to tell people to wear masks when near other people, than policing whether someone is "exercising" or not.
Similarly with the ridiculous attempts to police "non-essential" purchases.
I am now 5 miles north...
It would be simpler and fairer just to close the parks if social distancing is not being observed.
Something for Big Rich...and the race to get 60% herd immunity...we would probably have to completely collapse the NHS within weeks, and have to re-deploy our bin men to collect the dead from homes and incinerate the bodies in mass pits....
I must admit that some of their number do seem to be rather enjoying themselves too much when it comes to making up new laws they can impose on a whim
So not really a great study when the number of active cases in Austria was: i) low to begin with and ii) has been squashed by their lockdown...
They've demonstrated they have plenty of resources to interfere with our lives as it is when they really want to - so all those old excuses that they're too busy to investigate a burglary or anti social behaviour can go straight out the window.
I'm not doing stuff like that, I must admit.
My wife and I have enjoyed worldwide travel by land and cruise ships over the last 15 years and feel so blessed that we have so many travel experiences and seen many places you can only access by ship
Maybe because my wife and I have a maritime history and love of the sea that we went on so many, but we are saddened by their possible demise and certainly we would not go on a cruise ship now, but we had decided that before covid 19
I don't think people understand that once the NHS collapses...we have nowhere to treat the dead and dying of any illness, injury or disease....
We are in this thing for the long haul.....
Once you get beyond the ring road (as I now find myself), things get a little less cosmopolitan.
I am still working to improve the city - by campaigning against the idiotic changes they have made to Walton Street. But that is another story.
Trump's tweets have left voters exhausted by politics? -- explains the success of Get Brexit Done over here.
Biden's information-free campaigning appeals to voters? -- fails to explain why Mayor Pete is not nominee after his campaign for niceness or whatever it was he wanted.
Disappointing. Not the person I thought you were.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52182509
Cruises will continue, especially for older people and the retired for whom they offer a great opportunity to travel to multiple places at once, catered for with little effort required from the passengers and with plenty of other people for company
People aren’t taking this seriously enough.
Coronavirus: Greater Manchester Police warning after 660 parties shut down
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52221688
For a large slice of the population, these are luxuries that are beyond our means. We can't even jog round and round in circles in our gardens until we get dizzy, because we don't have those either. Nor am I convinced that passing someone at speed is likely to be any more hazardous to either you or them than sitting still in the same place for a couple of hours, once the persons in question are sufficiently densely packed, as is the risk if a park becomes sufficiently crowded.
Of course, whatever risks there are to outdoor exercise can be mitigated by other means, such as pacing the streets instead of going to the park in the first place, or going out early or late - although I don't think that makes much difference outside of some very densely populated city areas in any event. I pass very few other people when I'm out running, regardless of what time of day it is.
"The deputy mayor said almost all new patients had pneumonia, brought on by coronavirus. She warned that both hospitals and the ambulance service were stretched to their limit.
That is clear from the first-hand accounts of medics, who are beginning to talk of a non-stop flow of ambulances and of overflowing wards."
Not that we will ever know the true figures.
I'm a socialist hypocrite anyway...I own a number of properties which I don't need...but (as per Richard Tyndall)...I'm enjoying the simple life..I'm even doing stuff that my mum used to do, like not throwing away jam jars and the like and using them to store things like my veggie stock cubes....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5dy9URkLFI
But, over the years I have had to do a lot of work with them....and it changed my perspective...
The Government doesn't have a supply of approximately 23 million exercise machines to dole out, and even if they did then it would take months to deliver them. This also assumes that families living in shoebox apartments and rabbit hutch houses have room for big pieces of bulky machinery in the first place.
Apart from that it's a brilliant idea.
Also the travel insurance will be massively expensive and almost certainly exclude covid
Tyson is right, not because he dislikes cruise ships, but because of the passengers experiences and the terrible publicity they have suffered
They may well recover like the airlines, but do not expect there to be as many of either
I know several avid cruise passengers who have 'avoded' not to cruise again
I wouldn't be in the least surprised if Putin is tucked up in some such facility.
We’re half way there.
If people don’t have space for the big equipment then give them kettlebells and other smaller stuff.
Peter Openshaw, professor of experimental medicine at Imperial College London, said he thought it was 'fair enough thing' for people to catch some rays, as they damage the genetic material of the deadly pathogen.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8207713/Top-immunologist-says-people-able-sit-bit-sun-outdoors.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8207869/Private-jet-super-rich-holidaymakers-turned-away-French-airport.html
On a per head basis as I also pointed out the Netherlands and Belgium are also seeing their death rate increase faster than the UK.
The UK also locked down about a week or 2 after most of Europe so inevitably it will take longer for the UK to pass the peak too (albeit Sweden is still not in lockdown).
Other than that the UK is about at the European average, though it could expand testing much further as Germany has if it really wants to cut the rate further than average
There are though a significant amount of joggers here though who do not respect social distance....
Anyone heard from Roger?
Press Ups
Sit Ups
Burpees
Leg Kicks
Sprint on the spot
Lifting small weights
Step on chair
etc etc
Its easy to find exercises online and you could literally spend as long as you
want without repetition and getting bored.
Fittest i've been in decades (except when i hurt my calf going full on!)
Excellent sign.
You seem to want to spin this but that looks a bit desperate .
Perhaps though the request for vets to work for the NHS tells us that it isn't quite all right..
That, and so many acting like entited dicks for weeks now.
You are the one who seems to want to spin this and to score points.
It really isn't a helpful position to take.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-manchester-52243895
It has five cross trainers, two rowing machines, nine or ten treadmills and about half-a-dozen assorted stationary bikes.
Even if there's the same amount of equipment again in the two (much smaller) private gyms in town, that's only enough for about fifty households.
We are not half-way there.
The numbers of complete sets of weights available are negligible, though in any event they are useless for cardiovascular exercise which is, of course, what almost everyone going outside (for walking, running and cycling) is actually up to. Strength training is the one thing that expressly isn't a problem in lockdown: that can be done in a limited space and without equipment, if push comes to shove.
UK total cases 65, 077
Italy total deaths 18,279
UK total deaths 7, 978
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
I'm fortunate I live in a big house, with a big garden, and the resources to buy some exercise equipment when a lockdown was looking inevitable.
I said the other day people in big glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
I understand why people are allowed to go out, my friend's claustrophobia is back, and the hour outside helps her immensely.
I suspect for her and many other people a significant minority will ruin it for them.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/reconciling-covid-19-death-data-in-the-uk/
ONS is recording all deaths where COVID19 is mentioned on the death certificate or by the coroners report (if any).
Since COVID19 is a notifiable disease, doctors have a duty to report a diagnosis - even if there is not test.
Whilst I do understand the need for proper safeguards and controls, encouraging neighbours to spy on one another is not something I want to see become commonplace in our society.
Last night, there was a car parked outside of where I live that has no connection to the locality as far as I can tell. It was there for several hours - so it wasn't someone just dropping off supplies to help someone.
I didn't report it - because that is not how my mind works.
Perhaps I am watching too much of Spooks on iPlayer - but I am wary of this trend
We locked down slightly later so it will take slightly longer to pass the peak but beyond that we are doing average, no worse than most European countries really but not as well as Germany.
I know the left are desperate to spin this as an anti Tory story but it really is pathetic