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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454

    Mr. Mark, blimey. That sounds horrendous.

    He's a great guy. He'll bounce back. But yeah, that is one rough old week he's had.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,700
    edited April 2020
    RobD said:

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Talk about bad luck.
    I feel sure there is help.out there try cruse bereavement care or equivalent .in your area .
    I can tell you that when i lost my wife i found counselling v helpful.in the short term.

    Pm me at any time if helpful.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    Stocky said:


    Only on PB:

    My news on the engineering contracting sector passes uncommented, but a mention of carrot cake spawns a punathon!

    Your dissing of carrot cake was uncalled for, man. The king of cakes, unless you count a bakewell tart as a cake, in which case it`s a score-draw.
    Sorry. A loganberry bakewell tart is top trumps.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Is there any more detail? Pretty shocking if true as reported
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2020

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Horrible for your friend, but I'm very surprised he was allowed to attend them. It was immediate family only for my Mother-in-Law.

    He was the sole attendee. He was in charge of Zooming the proceedings for the family. Spouses/parents were deemed too old and at too much risk to attend.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663

    MaxPB said:

    Mr. Glenn, didn't the French do this with similar gear ordered by the NHS (goods made in France)?

    Does anyone have any confidence that those "joint EU made ventilators" manufactured in Europe would have actually got across the Channel?
    Do you have any confidence that buying ventilators from Dräger on world market terms will be quicker or cheaper or more reliable than doing so in the context of a pan European scheme?
    I have more confidence of doing a "world market terms" deal than I do with working in a trading bloc we have already left. When France, Germany, Italy, Spain still need ventilators - that shipment for London at the docks in Rotterdam is going to happen you reckon?
    Tbf, it's more likely to be delivered if we were in the co-purchasing arrangement than not. However, it may turn out that our own manufacturing efforts are faster and deliver more than buying as part of the collective scheme. They are still waiting for deliveries, the government scheme is beginning to deliver this weekend and expected to deliver significant quantities next week.

    I actually think this is a better way of doing it as we're not reliant on a foreign source if we need more and given that we are going to get units delivered by UK manufacturing, it wouldn't make sense to deny countries that don't have that capability stock from the international market.
    We'll see. Yesterday they announced that the McLaren-Merc etc. cooperation will deliver 30 vents at the weekend. 30.
    Yes, you're German. You understand how manufacturing works, right? It's not as if those 30 are all that will ever be made from the production line.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Hancock is so much better at the briefing than Gove, Raab, and others
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380

    RobD said:

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Talk about bad luck.
    I feel sure there is help.out there try cruse bereavement care or equivalent .in your area .
    I can tell you that when i lost my wife i found counselling v helpful.in the short term.

    Pm me at any time if helpful.
    Same when we lost our (adult) daughter. I'd try to do my best, too.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535

    Hancock is so much better at the briefing than Gove, Raab, and others

    Yes, he seems to be doing well here. Raab was a joke.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,908
    The report that said that 4
    I don't know the details of this report, but the graphic shows an unflattened exponential rise which indicates that social distancing isn't being done or if it is it isn't working.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Does Hancock ever smile? Always comes across as a grumpy so-and-so :)

    because the current situation is a laugh a minute?

    Imagine the shit storm he would face if it was felt he was too light hearted
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    Matt Hancock very impressive today I must say. Clear, serious, professional, and inspirational.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,307
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mr. Glenn, didn't the French do this with similar gear ordered by the NHS (goods made in France)?

    Does anyone have any confidence that those "joint EU made ventilators" manufactured in Europe would have actually got across the Channel?
    Do you have any confidence that buying ventilators from Dräger on world market terms will be quicker or cheaper or more reliable than doing so in the context of a pan European scheme?
    I have more confidence of doing a "world market terms" deal than I do with working in a trading bloc we have already left. When France, Germany, Italy, Spain still need ventilators - that shipment for London at the docks in Rotterdam is going to happen you reckon?
    Tbf, it's more likely to be delivered if we were in the co-purchasing arrangement than not. However, it may turn out that our own manufacturing efforts are faster and deliver more than buying as part of the collective scheme. They are still waiting for deliveries, the government scheme is beginning to deliver this weekend and expected to deliver significant quantities next week.

    I actually think this is a better way of doing it as we're not reliant on a foreign source if we need more and given that we are going to get units delivered by UK manufacturing, it wouldn't make sense to deny countries that don't have that capability stock from the international market.
    We'll see. Yesterday they announced that the McLaren-Merc etc. cooperation will deliver 30 vents at the weekend. 30.
    Yes, you're German. You understand how manufacturing works, right? It's not as if those 30 are all that will ever be made from the production line.
    I thought we Brexiteers were the ones who viewed everything as a competition with the Germans? You don't have to have much of an argument with our Matthias for the mask (ahem) to slip do you?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454

    Hancock is so much better at the briefing than Gove, Raab, and others

    Yes, he seems to be doing well here. Raab was a joke.
    Sharma got the shitty stick this week.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Glenn, didn't the French do this with similar gear ordered by the NHS (goods made in France)?

    Does anyone have any confidence that those "joint EU made ventilators" manufactured in Europe would have actually got across the Channel?
    Have they actually got any responses to the new tender? They didn't get any responses to the first.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    North Korea is still officially corona virus free
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,873
    edited April 2020

    Hancock is so much better at the briefing than Gove, Raab, and others

    Amazing how he is able to do so much post contacting covid

    He does look tired but such is the responsibilty of his office at this time

    And I do not rate Raab at all
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Hancock. No messing around. "This is an instruction. Stay at home"

    Impressive.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    I don’t like how this NHS person mentioned by name the 2 nurses who died, but not the HCAs that Hancock was talking about. They contribute just as much to the NHS.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,142
    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    Probably true given the way they treat it.
  • Called it.

    QC Gordon Jackson to resign as Dean of the Faculty of Advocates following Sunday Times revelations about his conduct
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    Sigh. It assumes we behave in exactly the same way next time around though. This paper from Christophe Fraser is interesting: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/03/30/science.abb6936

    It presents a really elegant strategy where individuals with any symptom immediately go home and isolate and get rapidly tested. At the same time, those they have been in contact with are informed, via a phone app, that they have been in contact and should isolate too and automatically be signed up to get a test that can again be performed rapidly.

    This scheme can prevent both a long-term lockdown and a pandemic. Moreover, we will gain a better understanding of what treatments work for this disease and new insight into how it functions. With all of these pieces of information we can reasonably hope that future waves can be kept under much better control.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    Everybody who contracts it, dies of gun shot wounds?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454

    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    Everybody who contracts it, dies of gun shot wounds?
    "Lead poisoning" on all the death certificates.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Glenn, didn't the French do this with similar gear ordered by the NHS (goods made in France)?

    Does anyone have any confidence that those "joint EU made ventilators" manufactured in Europe would have actually got across the Channel?
    Do you have any confidence that buying ventilators from Dräger on world market terms will be quicker or cheaper or more reliable than doing so in the context of a pan European scheme?
    Buying them from Smiths would be.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380
    edited April 2020

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Horrible for your friend, but I'm very surprised he was allowed to attend them. It was immediate family only for my Mother-in-Law.

    He was the sole attendee. He was in charge of Zooming the proceedings for the family. Spouses/parents were deemed too old and at too much risk to attend.
    That's beyond awful. Bit at least it gave him something to do.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    edited April 2020
    Nigelb said:

    That is a very good question.

    What lockdown has done is give us time to learn about the virus, set up testing systems, and plan a strategy.
    Governments had to react day by day at the start, and only those who were lucky enough to have pandemic plans in place based on the SARS experience reacted particularly well. (South Korea had the great luck to have run a full scale exercise only a month or so before it all kicked off.)
    Now they have several weeks to decide what comes next.

    I don't have an easy answer to that question.

    It would be amazing if you did because it looks the very definition of hard. The more I think about this the more gloomy I get. We have to - as you say - try to manage admissions (and therefore deaths) below ramped-up NHS capacity. No UK government could not do that. So, OK, this is what we are doing right now. But what do we do if it becomes clear that only Lockdown satisfies this objective and any Lockdown greater than a few weeks is not tenable because of the economic and social damage it will cause?

    Perhaps it will require something rather terrible to contemplate. A switch from trying to save every life via full NHS intervention to a managed exit for some with NHS focus on the others. On a large systematic scale, I mean, not ad hoc. The sort of thing you read about in fiction or thought experiments but never think you will ever see in a country like ours in 2020. So many troubling upshots from something like that. For just one example, those with sufficient financial resource going private and getting healed when somebody similar but poorer would not be. No-one could possibly blame anybody for doing this. Not even if it were Toby Young. Nevertheless it would be a ghastly place for us to end up in.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2020
    Good they've got the expert Van Tamm who totally owned Peston two days ago....lets see if Pesto keeps digging....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712
    welshowl said:

    Does Hancock ever smile? Always comes across as a grumpy so-and-so :)

    He’s been ill with a possible killer virus, he’s just been to inspect an army built field hospital in the middle of London ( imagine that sentence a couple of months ago), and he’s Health Sec at the time of the greatest health crisis in a century.
    I can probably forgive him not doing jazz hands as he sashays to the podium.
    No, I meant before the crisis.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    Ummm, I'm a little sceptical of that chart. Let's assume someone has the virus for two weeks. And let's assume that you get to 66% infected irrespective of social distancing.

    This means that the total "time infected" is approximately 200m people x 2 weeks = 400m weeks of infection.

    Essentially, the area under curve is the same for all scenarios where everyone gets it. The only question is the height of the peak.

    But this chart has a five month period, during which an everage of 25 million people are infected. So, just in the peak they have more weeks of infection than other models.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712
    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    China, eat your heart out.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2020
    Scottish Labour Deputy leadership result

    Jackie Baillie 10311 votes
    Matt Kerr 7528 votes

    Turnout 50.&

    Kerr was the Corbynate candidate. He is a Cllr in Glasgow.
    Baillie is an MSP since 1999.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I don’t like how this NHS person mentioned by name the 2 nurses who died, but not the HCAs that Hancock was talking about. They contribute just as much to the NHS.

    I’m not terribly impressed with the chief nurse over the last few days was watching to see if the HCA ‘s were mentioned which they weren’t. It was silly to identify individuals as over the coming days it will become more and more onerous. Yes recognize the sacrifice etc but don’t leave yourself open to future comeback for treating people differently.
  • That York train station 'conviction' gets worse.

    A woman who was wrongly convicted of loitering under new coronavirus laws was tried and punished in her absence after not speaking or making a sound for three days.

    The Times revealed on Thursday how Marie Dinou, 41, had been prosecuted and fined under the wrong legislation after she was arrested by British Transport Police (BTP) at Newcastle Central station on Saturday morning......

    ...BTP, which has apologised for the error, had initially said that she was detained and charged because she “refused to speak” to officers after being seen “loitering between platforms”.

    However, it has since emerged that Ms Dinou did not speak to officers who took her to the cells for two nights, failed to confirm her identity or enter a plea at court as she remained silent, and did not speak to or instruct a duty solicitor assigned to represent her for the hearing.

    When concerns were raised in court as to whether she was mute, had mental health issues or faced a language barrier, these were dismissed by District Judge Sarah-Jane Griffiths, who concluded that she was being “obstructive” despite no apparent attempt to determine her health condition or her fitness to plead having been made.

    As Ms Dinou remained silent in the dock, the judge ordered her to be taken back to the cells and she proceeded to prove the case, despite the fact that the charges had never been put to the defendant and she had not been served with papers.

    The judge said that she had decided that there was no language barrier because Ms Dinou, from York, had written the word “Aberdeen” on a piece of paper — her only interaction in 72 hours.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/woman-wrongly-convicted-under-new-coronavirus-law-did-not-speak-a-single-word-to-police-or-in-court-0kjq9zrhj
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Italian numbers

    Active cases: 85.388 (+2.339)
    Deaths: 14.681 (+766)
    Healed: 19.758 (+1.480)

    New cases: 4.585
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Sorry to hear this, talk about bad luck.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454

    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    China, eat your heart out.
    If some local medicine practitioner thought it was a cure, they would....
  • Charles said:

    Mr. Glenn, didn't the French do this with similar gear ordered by the NHS (goods made in France)?

    Does anyone have any confidence that those "joint EU made ventilators" manufactured in Europe would have actually got across the Channel?
    Do you have any confidence that buying ventilators from Dräger on world market terms will be quicker or cheaper or more reliable than doing so in the context of a pan European scheme?
    Buying them from Smiths would be.
    Only time will show us the aggregate bottom line.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436

    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    Everybody who contracts it, dies of gun shot wounds?
    Not quite. Everybody who says that somebody contracted it dies of gunshot wounds.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    That's weird - I read it exactly the same way as you
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    That's weird - I read it exactly the same way as you
    True - dangerous to tell the King the truth...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    China, eat your heart out.
    If some local medicine practitioner thought it was a cure, they would....
    Have you seen the thing doing the rounds on the internet about China getting into space - and promptly trying to eat everything they find

    One component titled SARS wars ..............
  • egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Sorry to hear this, talk about bad luck.
    Just heard that the daughter of a friend of mine and her 3 day old baby have got it. Probably (doesn’t say but seems likely to me ) picked it up in the hospital.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    edited April 2020

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    There is no famine in the Ukraine. May I have a Pulitzer Prize please?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    Local estimates suggest 30-40 thousand which "feels" right - enough to be worth lying about, whilst being within the realms of getting away with to be feasible.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247

    That York train station 'conviction' gets worse.

    A woman who was wrongly convicted of loitering under new coronavirus laws was tried and punished in her absence after not speaking or making a sound for three days.

    The Times revealed on Thursday how Marie Dinou, 41, had been prosecuted and fined under the wrong legislation after she was arrested by British Transport Police (BTP) at Newcastle Central station on Saturday morning......

    ...BTP, which has apologised for the error, had initially said that she was detained and charged because she “refused to speak” to officers after being seen “loitering between platforms”.

    However, it has since emerged that Ms Dinou did not speak to officers who took her to the cells for two nights, failed to confirm her identity or enter a plea at court as she remained silent, and did not speak to or instruct a duty solicitor assigned to represent her for the hearing.

    When concerns were raised in court as to whether she was mute, had mental health issues or faced a language barrier, these were dismissed by District Judge Sarah-Jane Griffiths, who concluded that she was being “obstructive” despite no apparent attempt to determine her health condition or her fitness to plead having been made.

    As Ms Dinou remained silent in the dock, the judge ordered her to be taken back to the cells and she proceeded to prove the case, despite the fact that the charges had never been put to the defendant and she had not been served with papers.

    The judge said that she had decided that there was no language barrier because Ms Dinou, from York, had written the word “Aberdeen” on a piece of paper — her only interaction in 72 hours.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/woman-wrongly-convicted-under-new-coronavirus-law-did-not-speak-a-single-word-to-police-or-in-court-0kjq9zrhj

    Surely Ms Griffiths will have to do a Jackson?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    Floater said:

    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    China, eat your heart out.
    If some local medicine practitioner thought it was a cure, they would....
    Have you seen the thing doing the rounds on the internet about China getting into space - and promptly trying to eat everything they find

    One component titled SARS wars ..............
    Yeah. Funny, in a rather queasy kinda way.

    "That joke isn't funny any more.

    It's too close to home.

    It's too near the bone...."
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Pulpstar said:

    North Korea is still officially corona virus free

    Everybody who contracts it, dies of gun shot wounds?
    In unrelated news, they are trying to build a new mega hospital in five months...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    Pesto does like trying to get scientists to speculate, doesn't he?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    There is no famine in the Ukraine. May I have a Pulitzer Prize please?
    As late as 1991 the BBC were still making documentaries claiming Mao’s famine had never happened.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    ydoethur said:

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Sorry to hear this, talk about bad luck.
    Just heard that the daughter of a friend of mine and her 3 day old baby have got it. Probably (doesn’t say but seems likely to me ) picked it up in the hospital.
    Fingers crossed for them.

    You can see now why all other operations are being cancelled.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    Hubei Province has roughly the same population as the UK. Around 60 million.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    That York train station 'conviction' gets worse.

    A woman who was wrongly convicted of loitering under new coronavirus laws was tried and punished in her absence after not speaking or making a sound for three days.

    The Times revealed on Thursday how Marie Dinou, 41, had been prosecuted and fined under the wrong legislation after she was arrested by British Transport Police (BTP) at Newcastle Central station on Saturday morning......

    ...BTP, which has apologised for the error, had initially said that she was detained and charged because she “refused to speak” to officers after being seen “loitering between platforms”.

    However, it has since emerged that Ms Dinou did not speak to officers who took her to the cells for two nights, failed to confirm her identity or enter a plea at court as she remained silent, and did not speak to or instruct a duty solicitor assigned to represent her for the hearing.

    When concerns were raised in court as to whether she was mute, had mental health issues or faced a language barrier, these were dismissed by District Judge Sarah-Jane Griffiths, who concluded that she was being “obstructive” despite no apparent attempt to determine her health condition or her fitness to plead having been made.

    As Ms Dinou remained silent in the dock, the judge ordered her to be taken back to the cells and she proceeded to prove the case, despite the fact that the charges had never been put to the defendant and she had not been served with papers.

    The judge said that she had decided that there was no language barrier because Ms Dinou, from York, had written the word “Aberdeen” on a piece of paper — her only interaction in 72 hours.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/woman-wrongly-convicted-under-new-coronavirus-law-did-not-speak-a-single-word-to-police-or-in-court-0kjq9zrhj

    Surely Ms Griffiths will have to do a Jackson?
    Probably try the "lessons have been learnt" crap
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,600
    UK has now reported more Covid-19 deaths than... China. Hmmm....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,439
    edited April 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Surely Ms Griffiths will have to do a Jackson?

    If she has any sense of shame or decency.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    That York train station 'conviction' gets worse.

    A woman who was wrongly convicted of loitering under new coronavirus laws was tried and punished in her absence after not speaking or making a sound for three days.

    The Times revealed on Thursday how Marie Dinou, 41, had been prosecuted and fined under the wrong legislation after she was arrested by British Transport Police (BTP) at Newcastle Central station on Saturday morning......

    ...BTP, which has apologised for the error, had initially said that she was detained and charged because she “refused to speak” to officers after being seen “loitering between platforms”.

    However, it has since emerged that Ms Dinou did not speak to officers who took her to the cells for two nights, failed to confirm her identity or enter a plea at court as she remained silent, and did not speak to or instruct a duty solicitor assigned to represent her for the hearing.

    When concerns were raised in court as to whether she was mute, had mental health issues or faced a language barrier, these were dismissed by District Judge Sarah-Jane Griffiths, who concluded that she was being “obstructive” despite no apparent attempt to determine her health condition or her fitness to plead having been made.

    As Ms Dinou remained silent in the dock, the judge ordered her to be taken back to the cells and she proceeded to prove the case, despite the fact that the charges had never been put to the defendant and she had not been served with papers.

    The judge said that she had decided that there was no language barrier because Ms Dinou, from York, had written the word “Aberdeen” on a piece of paper — her only interaction in 72 hours.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/woman-wrongly-convicted-under-new-coronavirus-law-did-not-speak-a-single-word-to-police-or-in-court-0kjq9zrhj

    Nah, it's fine, best to err on the side of lack of caution or care.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited April 2020

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    Everyone in China who knows what is good for them? And everyone outside of China who would like to do business?
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Horrible for your friend, but I'm very surprised he was allowed to attend them. It was immediate family only for my Mother-in-Law.

    He was the sole attendee. He was in charge of Zooming the proceedings for the family. Spouses/parents were deemed too old and at too much risk to attend.
    That's beyond awful. Bit at least it gave him something to do.
    In Italy you get funerals (well, they aren't even funerals because the full ceremony is not allowed. Only a brief blessings) with no attendees apart from emloyees of the funeral service business because the family is either in hospital or in quarantine.
    There was a funeral service staff interviewed who said a family asked her if it was possible to do a certain route from hospital to cemetery in order for them at least to look at the coffin from the window as they couldn't leave the house.

    In hotspots, where the crematory services can't cope with the demand anymore, army have to take coffins to other regions and then come back with ashes. They just got a mass "ceremonies" like this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ryR1xaS2g&feature=emb_title
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    edited April 2020

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712
    ydoethur said:

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Sorry to hear this, talk about bad luck.
    Just heard that the daughter of a friend of mine and her 3 day old baby have got it. Probably (doesn’t say but seems likely to me ) picked it up in the hospital.
    Bloody hell. We are so glad my sister-in-law in Aberdeen gave birth to my little nephew around 5 weeks ago. I hate to think about how things might have been if she was due this week...

    We get to speak to her, my brother and her parents most nights by Skype - and coo playfully to my little nephew too! Of course, Skype is no substitute for seeing them in person...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    rcs1000 said:

    Ummm, I'm a little sceptical of that chart. Let's assume someone has the virus for two weeks. And let's assume that you get to 66% infected irrespective of social distancing.

    This means that the total "time infected" is approximately 200m people x 2 weeks = 400m weeks of infection.

    Essentially, the area under curve is the same for all scenarios where everyone gets it. The only question is the height of the peak.

    But this chart has a five month period, during which an everage of 25 million people are infected. So, just in the peak they have more weeks of infection than other models.
    And assumes no effective treatments/vaccines are developed and deployed.

    And is also based on insufficient data.

    Other than than, projecting out to 2021 is just fine.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247

    ydoethur said:

    Just heard a friend has been to four funerals this week, including his 34 year old best mate who got the virus - but had an undiagnosed underlying kidney problem and was dead in 48 hours. He can't get spiritual help either - his rabbi was one of the four. As was his employer.

    Sorry to hear this, talk about bad luck.
    Just heard that the daughter of a friend of mine and her 3 day old baby have got it. Probably (doesn’t say but seems likely to me ) picked it up in the hospital.
    Fingers crossed for them.

    You can see now why all other operations are being cancelled.
    Well, yes. I imagine there can’t be many more dangerous places to be than hospitals right now. Unfortunately you can’t cancel babies.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712

    That York train station 'conviction' gets worse.

    [snip]

    Was it York or Newcastle? Both are nice stations BTW :)
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247

    ydoethur said:

    Surely Ms Griffiths will have to do a Jackson?

    If she has any sense of shame or decency.
    So just to be clear - you don’t expect her to?
  • egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    But do you believe the China figures
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,585
    So the hospital admissions chart is now showing decline in numbers for London and several other regions - hopefully that continues!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,790
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    That is a very good question.

    What lockdown has done is give us time to learn about the virus, set up testing systems, and plan a strategy.
    Governments had to react day by day at the start, and only those who were lucky enough to have pandemic plans in place based on the SARS experience reacted particularly well. (South Korea had the great luck to have run a full scale exercise only a month or so before it all kicked off.)
    Now they have several weeks to decide what comes next.

    I don't have an easy answer to that question.

    It would be amazing if you did because it looks the very definition of hard. The more I think about this the more gloomy I get. We have to - as you say - try to manage admissions (and therefore deaths) below ramped-up NHS capacity. No UK government could not do that. So, OK, this is what we are doing right now. But what do we do if it becomes clear that only Lockdown satisfies this objective and any Lockdown greater than a few weeks is not tenable because of the economic and social damage it will cause?

    Perhaps it will require something rather terrible to contemplate. A switch from trying to save every life via full NHS intervention to a managed exit for some with NHS focus on the others. On a large systematic scale, I mean, not ad hoc. The sort of thing you read about in fiction or thought experiments but never think you will ever see in a country like ours in 2020. So many troubling upshots from something like that. For just one example, those with sufficient financial resource going private and getting healed when somebody similar but poorer would not be. No-one could possibly blame anybody for doing this. Not even if it were Toby Young. Nevertheless it would be a ghastly place for us to end up in.
    One option I posted a couple of days back (not my idea) was the rather risky one of trialling the most promising vaccines on volunteers who are then deliberately dosed with measured amounts of the coronavirus.

    Depending upon how grim the projections look in a month or two's time, that might start to seem an attractive option.
    It would save at least six months on getting an effective vaccine deployed; possibly a full year.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    just paid 96.7 a litre for petrol

    it seemed weird watching the litres rise faster than the pounds
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    That York train station 'conviction' gets worse.

    [snip]

    Was it York or Newcastle? Both are nice stations BTW :)
    Arrest at Newcastle, person from York. Appears to be a catastrophic failure of common sense on the part of the CPS and judiciary. The plod I can give some leeway to, the former, none at all.
  • egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712
    maaarsh said:

    So the hospital admissions chart is now showing decline in numbers for London and several other regions - hopefully that continues!

    Do you have a link? Ta.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely Ms Griffiths will have to do a Jackson?

    If she has any sense of shame or decency.
    So just to be clear - you don’t expect her to?
    I do not expect her to resign.

    Incidentally I also have no sense of shame and decency, that way my other senses are enhanced.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,165

    egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
    Big G! He was New Labour SPAD hard man
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247

    just paid 96.7 a litre for petrol

    it seemed weird watching the litres rise faster than the pounds

    When was it last that low? 2007? A long time ago, anyway!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712

    egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
    Former New Labour spin doctor. Married to TV host Kate Garraway:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Draper
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited April 2020
    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    There are clearly differences in the way countries are doing counting (as seen when France added a whole bunch of deaths at once) and that needs taking into account, but it does not follow that everywhere is equally unreliable, especially depending the reasons for any doubt around figures. Doubts about figures in this country as a result of not including figures outside hispitals would not, for instance, be of the same level of China deliberately concealing mass numbers of cases and deaths. I don't know if the wilder accusations about China will be bourne out, but if there is any truth to it it would clearly be more serious than what you are putting up as equatable.

    Or more pithily, not all sins are the same.
  • egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
    Former New Labour spin doctor. Married to TV host Kate Garraway:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Draper
    Thanks but I have never heard of him
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,585

    maaarsh said:

    So the hospital admissions chart is now showing decline in numbers for London and several other regions - hopefully that continues!

    Do you have a link? Ta.
    It was in the press conference - he flicked over it very quickly as they're obviously trying to avoid people relaxing in the sun on Sunday, but I rewound and paused - London down and Midlands down very markedly, with only 1 of the other regions looking up
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    kle4 said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    Everyone in China who knows what is good for them? And everyone outside of China who would like to do business?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwVJTHtqs9Y
  • Stocky said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
    Big G! He was New Labour SPAD hard man
    I thought that was Campbell but Derek Draper has not appeared on my radar
  • I googled ‘lost medieval servant boy’ and got ‘Page not found.’
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,247
    Stocky said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
    Big G! He was New Labour SPAD hard man
    He was the ultimate metrosexual Blairite:

    https://www.gregpalast.com/lobbygate-there-are-17-people-that-count-to-say-that-i-am-intimate-with-every-one-of-them-is-the-understatement-of-the-century/
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,165
    Just has a bit on Anneliese Dodds for Shadow Chancellor at 5/2. She`s been taking money today. Now 7/4 with most bookies.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    kle4 said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    There are clearly differences in the way countries are doing counting (as seen when France added a whole bunch of deaths at once) and that needs taking into account, but it does not follow that everywhere is equally unreliable, especially depending the reasons for any doubt around figures. Doubts about figures in this country as a result of not including figures outside hispitals would not, for instance, be of the same level of China deliberately concealing mass numbers of cases and deaths. I don't know if the wilder accusations about China will be bourne out, but if there is any truth to it it would clearly be more serious than what you are putting up as equatable.

    Or more pithily, not all sins are the same.
    Getting the ONS to trawl through the various recording systems to pull in all the figures from the wider community is at, the very least, *trying* to add the figures for community deaths in.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857

    egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
    Former New Labour spin doctor. Married to TV host Kate Garraway:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Draper
    Main claim to fame - the man who nearly destroyed the Labour party.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833

    egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
    Former New Labour spin doctor. Married to TV host Kate Garraway:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Draper
    Thanks but I have never heard of him
    I’ve been to one of his talks - he’s an engaging speaker, with a lot of tales to tell, but it remains remarkable that New Labour ever employed him.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833
    edited April 2020
    ydoethur said:

    just paid 96.7 a litre for petrol

    it seemed weird watching the litres rise faster than the pounds

    When was it last that low? 2007? A long time ago, anyway!
    Enjoy while it lasts, soon be on the way up if the crude price is any judge

    For those taking a long view on shares, Royal Dutch Shell is worth a look.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Good on Robert Peston setting up a second interview with Jonathan Van-Tam. It can't be comfortable for a journalist being seen to have been taken to the cleaners, so it would have been easier not to have a repeat interview. Easier, but less informative for the public.
  • ydoethur said:

    Stocky said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    RobD said:

    From Guido's piece on this...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

    Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said.

    It is just a fire on the roof comrade.
    I read that as medieval bureaucrats at first.....

    Black Death strikes again.
    Only 3,322 deaths in caught by surprise China as opposed to plenty of notice U.K. Guido.
    Does anyone believe the China death figures
    And what’s current death total in U.K. you haven’t a clue. You have to die in a hospital to be counted.
    And a week later if you've died outside a hospital the ONS will include you in the stats.
    Anyway, the sad and very worrying news coming through is Derek Draper is very ill on a ventilator 😦
    Forgive my question but who is Derek Draper
    Big G! He was New Labour SPAD hard man
    He was the ultimate metrosexual Blairite:

    https://www.gregpalast.com/lobbygate-there-are-17-people-that-count-to-say-that-i-am-intimate-with-every-one-of-them-is-the-understatement-of-the-century/
    Shows I did not pay too much attention to politics in those days, as I had a business to run
This discussion has been closed.