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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The positive thing for Starmer about LAB’s polling position is

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  • He's won the argument.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Indeed yes. They have done more to ensure a ridiculously improbable Tory hegemony than any figure since Lord Salisbury.
  • malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    Good to see the EU giving Italy and Spain an encouraging high five.

    And following sensible handwashing procedures.
    Pontius Pilate used a basin.
    One of my pals has started calling the PM Boris Pilate given his recent catchphrase.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    5G is a new contender for the top spot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Charisma tends to wins US elections not IQ nor debate ability, Kerry, Romney and Hillary all did well in the debates and all lost as they lacked charisma in large part
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Lot of water yet to flow.

    Harris is 170.

    Just saying...
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Well it's not really. It's only too late right now if he doesn't pull out/if this doesn't become a big enough story to sink him. Those most likely will be the case, but only because the Democratic establishment are continuing to make that decision, not because it's too late.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    And that was probably Take Five..
    More Time Out, I think...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    I don't think they can swap him out. Unless he resigns the nomination - at which point the Sanders supporters will demand their man...

    I mean they'd do it with his co-operation. If he really does have early signs of dementia, a solution would have to be found. The replacement could be Sanders or somebody else. I'm not too fussed. Trump's a loser this year so long as the opponent is not suffering from severe cognitive impairment. Even then I'd be hopeful but would rather not take the risk.
  • MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,374
    ydoethur said:

    Indeed yes. They have done more to ensure a ridiculously improbable Tory hegemony than any figure since Lord Salisbury.
    Imagine trying to explain Jeremy Corbyn to Lord Salisbury
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Lot of water yet to flow.

    Harris is 170.

    Just saying...
    Biden just looks 170.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    Good to see the EU giving Italy and Spain an encouraging high five.

    And following sensible handwashing procedures.
    Take away the handwashing, and the cartoon works pretty well for the sovereign debt crisis. Replace Spain with Greece, and it works for the migrant crisis as well.

    Gosh, the EU isn't good in a crisis, is it?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Asymptomatic when they stepped off the plane in China for quarantine, is not the same as asymptomatic through the course of the disease. Interesting finding though, and does make temperature measurements at airport arrival a bit pointless.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Truly awful. What have the Dems done?
    Can you use the 25th Amendment on a candidate?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Best hope nothing much changes over the weekend I guess.
    It's OK, OGH can't go on holiday while in lockdown.
    Which only goes to reinforce our point that the lockdown ought to have happened sooner. :smile:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    Indeed yes. They have done more to ensure a ridiculously improbable Tory hegemony than any figure since Lord Salisbury.
    Imagine trying to explain Jeremy Corbyn to Lord Salisbury
    He sat in cabinet with General Peel. I don't think he'd find Corbyn that hard to understand.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Best hope nothing much changes over the weekend I guess.
    I really, really hope she doesn't have it.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    kinabalu said:

    I don't think they can swap him out. Unless he resigns the nomination - at which point the Sanders supporters will demand their man...

    I mean they'd do it with his co-operation. If he really does have early signs of dementia, a solution would have to be found. The replacement could be Sanders or somebody else. I'm not too fussed. Trump's a loser this year so long as the opponent is not suffering from severe cognitive impairment. Even then I'd be hopeful but would rather not take the risk.
    Early?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    DavidL said:

    In fairness Kinnock wrote some brilliant speeches. His Bournemouth 1985 speech was one of the best by a British politician I have ever heard. I honestly can't think of a better one in my lifetime.

    It was a truly great speech. Pidcock at Durham Miners Gala 2019 came close (for me) but Kinnock's had way more riding on it. It was a Moment.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    Just back from my weekly trip to the supermarket. The car park was full and it took nearly 90 minutes from leaving the car to returning with the groceries. Also more cars on the roads. The local newspaper reported the first death in my NHS trust which covers Kirklees and Calderdale. Is there a national database of deaths as well as the virus counts?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    OT and in the spirit of lightening the mood somewhat, has anyone else noticed there seem to be a very large number of Chiffchaffs around this year? I seem to be noticing them in every tree at the moment.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    We now have officially more deaths than China - 3605 vs 3322.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,442
    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Clinton was generally considered to have won the debates last time and it did her no good.
    To win the Democrats will have to emulate the Republicans in 2016. They will have to keep their eyes on the main prize - choosing the next Supreme Court Justice - and work the public up in anger at the manifest failings of their opponent in the hope that they'll overlook the weaknesses of their own.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    In fairness Kinnock wrote some brilliant speeches. His Bournemouth 1985 speech was one of the best by a British politician I have ever heard. I honestly can't think of a better one in my lifetime.

    It was a truly great speech. Pidcock at Durham Miners Gala 2019 came close (for me) but Kinnock's had way more riding on it. It was a Moment.
    PB satire at its very best. Bravo!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Best hope nothing much changes over the weekend I guess.
    I really, really hope she doesn't have it.
    It really doesn't bear thinking about.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
  • Endillion said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    Good to see the EU giving Italy and Spain an encouraging high five.

    And following sensible handwashing procedures.
    Take away the handwashing, and the cartoon works pretty well for the sovereign debt crisis. Replace Spain with Greece, and it works for the migrant crisis as well.

    Gosh, the EU isn't good in a crisis, is it?
    Gosh, the EU is never good in some peoples views, crisis or not.

    The cartoon does illustrate these views. Doesn't make these views accurate, though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    IshmaelZ said:

    We now have officially more deaths than China - 3605 vs 3322.

    Surely that should be, 'Officially, we now have more deaths than China?'
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    PB satire at its very best. Bravo!

    I will always take a compliment but if you are implying that I do NOT rate that speech by Laura - wind tossing her hair as she more or less preaches - you are mistaken. Would have given SKS a run for his money methinks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,374
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    I think the concern, from the Netherlands etc, is that the countries in question are using the crisis as an excuse to wipe the economic slate clean.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,442

    OT and in the spirit of lightening the mood somewhat, has anyone else noticed there seem to be a very large number of Chiffchaffs around this year? I seem to be noticing them in every tree at the moment.

    I read earlier in the week that Swallows were now overwintering in Galway. The mild winter might have been kind to smaller birds too.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    Good to see the EU giving Italy and Spain an encouraging high five.

    And following sensible handwashing procedures.
    Take away the handwashing, and the cartoon works pretty well for the sovereign debt crisis. Replace Spain with Greece, and it works for the migrant crisis as well.

    Gosh, the EU isn't good in a crisis, is it?
    Its a structural problem. The duty of the Commission is to find common ground amongst the members. The same mindset dominates the bank with the additional provision that Germany seems to be given an effective veto. This need for a consensus makes prompt or effective action very difficult.

    When you look where the EEC/EU started and its original areas of competence this was not a problem because it was largely framework. Control of monetary policy really requires something much more fleet of foot. Without it the Member States are facing the current calamity with their right hand tied behind their back. Its bad news for them and bad news for us because they remain our major market.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    We now have officially more deaths than China - 3605 vs 3322.

    Surely that should be, 'Officially, we now have more deaths than China?'
    That, or a couple of non-Oxford commas.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Lot of water yet to flow.

    Harris is 170.

    Just saying...
    Trump would easily beat Harris, she has ittle charisma, represents California not Pennsylvania like Biden and already looks to be a drag on the Biden ticket if he picked her for VP

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1245861418299052032?s=20
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    Shouldn't the question be how has it helped them?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    OT and in the spirit of lightening the mood somewhat, has anyone else noticed there seem to be a very large number of Chiffchaffs around this year? I seem to be noticing them in every tree at the moment.

    Haven't noticed that, but what I have noticed and is very welcome is the return of song thrushes, after two or three years when they weren't around much.

    Also we're inundated with ladybirds, of various different types.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    I think the concern, from the Netherlands etc, is that the countries in question are using the crisis as an excuse to wipe the economic slate clean.
    Exactly, Eurobonds are a means of last resort. It's not inconceivable they might be the required tool at some point in the future. For a start it might be correct to use the ESM and not go all-in right away.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Lot of water yet to flow.

    Harris is 170.

    Just saying...
    Trump would easily beat Harris, she has ittle charisma, represents California not Pennsylvania like Biden and already looks to be a drag on the Biden ticket if he picked her for VP

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1245861418299052032?s=20
    Biden represents Delaware, does he not?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,374
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Indeed yes. They have done more to ensure a ridiculously improbable Tory hegemony than any figure since Lord Salisbury.
    Imagine trying to explain Jeremy Corbyn to Lord Salisbury
    He sat in cabinet with General Peel. I don't think he'd find Corbyn that hard to understand.
    One was an un-moveable blockhead who couldn't listen to reason in his own self interest. The other is General Peel.

    I'll get my coat.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Early?

    Well he knows who he is.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:
    Trying to save every life - 71%
    Protecting the economy - 8%

    If those are the only two choices that is a hopeless question; they should have offered at least c. a combination of a and b. That still doesn't offer anything close to what I want which is: minimise net human suffering by first doing whatever it takes to get through this first wave without a complete meltdown of society (which means lockdown as at present, or even harder); then we can talk about QALY and economic harm and stuff, without ruling out that we expose older people to a higher risk of death *provided that* we can guarantee them a decent death in comfort and with all the medical attention we can give. It's that proviso which in my view rules out, at this stage, but only at this stage, a Sweden/Hitchens "let it rip" attitude.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I thought that was going to say “Momentum members have rewritten the rules... and I’m staying on!!”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Lot of water yet to flow.

    Harris is 170.

    Just saying...
    Trump would easily beat Harris, she has ittle charisma, represents California not Pennsylvania like Biden and already looks to be a drag on the Biden ticket if he picked her for VP

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1245861418299052032?s=20
    Biden represents Delaware, does he not?
    Don't bring facts into this conversation, please, Foxy, it will only cause confusion.
  • RobD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    Shouldn't the question be how has it helped them?
    The EU has been far from inactive. But its competences are quite limited.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:
    As I suspected the "F**k the lock down and let's all go down the pub and watch the footy" school of thought is vastly over represented on PB.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    Good to see the EU giving Italy and Spain an encouraging high five.

    And following sensible handwashing procedures.
    Take away the handwashing, and the cartoon works pretty well for the sovereign debt crisis. Replace Spain with Greece, and it works for the migrant crisis as well.

    Gosh, the EU isn't good in a crisis, is it?
    Gosh, the EU is never good in some peoples views, crisis or not.

    The cartoon does illustrate these views. Doesn't make these views accurate, though.
    It's good at some things - trade deals, for example - where being really big and powerful is an advantage.

    Watching it try to react to rapidly developing situations is like watching a tree realise that it isn't getting enough sunlight because someone built a wall next to it, and it needs to grow more in the opposite direction.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    PB satire at its very best. Bravo!

    I will always take a compliment but if you are implying that I do NOT rate that speech by Laura - wind tossing her hair as she more or less preaches - you are mistaken. Would have given SKS a run for his money methinks.
    I know you hold a torch for her, but I doubt that she`ll have done any better than RLB.

    To my surprise, I`ve been impressed (at times) with RLB over the campaign. She was interviewed in a few podcasts that I listen to. She`s much more intelligent than I gave her credit for, and also very likeable.

    Full 180 from me. Thought I should fess up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Indeed yes. They have done more to ensure a ridiculously improbable Tory hegemony than any figure since Lord Salisbury.
    Imagine trying to explain Jeremy Corbyn to Lord Salisbury
    He sat in cabinet with General Peel. I don't think he'd find Corbyn that hard to understand.
    One was an un-moveable blockhead who couldn't listen to reason in his own self interest. The other is General Peel.

    I'll get my coat.
    Possibly the second best quotation on electoral reform is Derby to Disraeli on Peel.

    'You will find him very reasonable on every subject until somebody mentions the words 'household suffrage,' whereat his eye lights up with insanity.'
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:
    As I suspected the "F**k the lock down and let's all go down the pub and watch the footy" school of thought is vastly over represented on PB.
    Who on PB is advocating ending the lockdown now?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    He's won the argument.

    And moved the Overton window.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited April 2020
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Lot of water yet to flow.

    Harris is 170.

    Just saying...
    Trump would easily beat Harris, she has ittle charisma, represents California not Pennsylvania like Biden and already looks to be a drag on the Biden ticket if he picked her for VP

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1245861418299052032?s=20
    Biden represents Delaware, does he not?
    He holds no elected office at present but in his early years grew up in Pennsylvania
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752
    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Charisma tends to wins US elections not IQ nor debate ability, Kerry, Romney and Hillary all did well in the debates and all lost as they lacked charisma in large part
    Mondale debated Reagan pretty effectively too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited April 2020

    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Charisma tends to wins US elections not IQ nor debate ability, Kerry, Romney and Hillary all did well in the debates and all lost as they lacked charisma in large part
    Mondale debated Reagan pretty effectively too.
    Yes you have to go back to Nixon in 1968 to find the last time the less charismatic candidate won a presidential election and he beat Humphrey by less than 1% in the popular vote
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Starmer isn't going to be a historically bad leader, so yeah, of course he's going to look good in comparison.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Charisma tends to wins US elections not IQ nor debate ability, Kerry, Romney and Hillary all did well in the debates and all lost as they lacked charisma in large part
    Mondale debated Reagan pretty effectively too.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPDOYPxSSv0
  • Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    Good to see the EU giving Italy and Spain an encouraging high five.

    And following sensible handwashing procedures.
    Take away the handwashing, and the cartoon works pretty well for the sovereign debt crisis. Replace Spain with Greece, and it works for the migrant crisis as well.

    Gosh, the EU isn't good in a crisis, is it?
    Gosh, the EU is never good in some peoples views, crisis or not.

    The cartoon does illustrate these views. Doesn't make these views accurate, though.
    It's good at some things - trade deals, for example - where being really big and powerful is an advantage.

    Watching it try to react to rapidly developing situations is like watching a tree realise that it isn't getting enough sunlight because someone built a wall next to it, and it needs to grow more in the opposite direction.
    Lot of truth in that. Member states insistence on as much sovereignty as possible requires processes which create substantial inertia. There are pros and cons to everything.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    I could even go for epochally bad, I don't think we'll see someone as fundamentally unsuited in that sort of leadership role for some time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Bill Esterton has a dog
  • kinabalu said:

    He's won the argument.

    And moved the Overton window.
    Indeed, he has, and few will give him credit for that, of course.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    kinabalu said:

    He's won the argument.

    And moved the Overton window.
    Given the 2019 election and Brexit, it appears he has. Just not quite in the way he intended.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,374
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Indeed yes. They have done more to ensure a ridiculously improbable Tory hegemony than any figure since Lord Salisbury.
    Imagine trying to explain Jeremy Corbyn to Lord Salisbury
    He sat in cabinet with General Peel. I don't think he'd find Corbyn that hard to understand.
    One was an un-moveable blockhead who couldn't listen to reason in his own self interest. The other is General Peel.

    I'll get my coat.
    Possibly the second best quotation on electoral reform is Derby to Disraeli on Peel.

    'You will find him very reasonable on every subject until somebody mentions the words 'household suffrage,' whereat his eye lights up with insanity.'
    If you read between the lines, this

    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Peel,_Jonathan_(DNB00)

    is extremely entertaining...

    "Derby, when he again became premier in 1858, appointed Peel secretary of state for the war department and a member of the cabinet by way of paying a tribute of respect to the name of Sir Robert Peel, his former colleague and rival."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    They need Coronabonds. They need large scale QE so that there is a guaranteed buyer of their bonds in the same way that the BoE has contrived for our government. The ECB are putting too much emphasis on fiscal policies whilst tying the hands of countries as to the scope of these. This puts Italy in particular, and Spain to a large extent in a very difficult situation. If they try anything like Rishi's policies then the cost of their bonds may rise sharply. Here the BoE is guaranteed to rig the market to make sure that does not happen.

    It remains uncertain whether even Rishi's policies are enough. Countries that can only fire one of two barrels are in for a genuinely terrible time.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "Denmark’s Weapons Against COVID-19: Early Action, High Trust—and a No-Nonsense Queen

    by Kay Xander Mellish"

    https://quillette.com/2020/03/29/denmarks-weapons-against-covid-19-early-action-high-trust-and-a-no-nonsense-queen/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Charisma tends to wins US elections not IQ nor debate ability, Kerry, Romney and Hillary all did well in the debates and all lost as they lacked charisma in large part
    Mondale debated Reagan pretty effectively too.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPDOYPxSSv0
    What a put down!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,000
    tlg86 said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:
    As I suspected the "F**k the lock down and let's all go down the pub and watch the footy" school of thought is vastly over represented on PB.
    Who on PB is advocating ending the lockdown now?
    The extremist Pollyannas are either blaming it on being lied to by the Chinese or wisely staying silent.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    edited April 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    We now have officially more deaths than China - 3605 vs 3322.

    Thats bullshit for sure.. the chinese figures that is
  • DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    They need Coronabonds. They need large scale QE so that there is a guaranteed buyer of their bonds in the same way that the BoE has contrived for our government. The ECB are putting too much emphasis on fiscal policies whilst tying the hands of countries as to the scope of these. This puts Italy in particular, and Spain to a large extent in a very difficult situation. If they try anything like Rishi's policies then the cost of their bonds may rise sharply. Here the BoE is guaranteed to rig the market to make sure that does not happen.

    It remains uncertain whether even Rishi's policies are enough. Countries that can only fire one of two barrels are in for a genuinely terrible time.
    As I said in another comment, that time may well come. But it's not now. Not yet.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Stocky said:

    I know you hold a torch for her, but I doubt that she`ll have done any better than RLB.

    To my surprise, I`ve been impressed (at times) with RLB over the campaign. She was interviewed in a few podcasts that I listen to. She`s much more intelligent than I gave her credit for, and also very likeable.

    Full 180 from me. Thought I should fess up.

    Honesty always the best policy. So in return - I doubt LP would have come that close. But I do think she would have been a more challenging opponent for SKS. She'd have worried him at times. Made him squirm a bit. Or perhaps - who knows - brought out the best in him. Yes, RLB has come over as a decent and capable politician, albeit not a leader. Nonsense to say - as some do - that Keir has to exclude her from his shadow cabinet in order to be taken seriously.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Lot of water yet to flow.

    Harris is 170.

    Just saying...
    Trump would easily beat Harris, she has ittle charisma, represents California not Pennsylvania like Biden and already looks to be a drag on the Biden ticket if he picked her for VP

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1245861418299052032?s=20
    Biden represents Delaware, does he not?
    He holds no elected office at present but in his early years grew up in Pennsylvania
    He's from Scranton, which The Office would suggest is the American Slough.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Bill Withers is no long still with us.

    :(
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    I know you hold a torch for her, but I doubt that she`ll have done any better than RLB.

    To my surprise, I`ve been impressed (at times) with RLB over the campaign. She was interviewed in a few podcasts that I listen to. She`s much more intelligent than I gave her credit for, and also very likeable.

    Full 180 from me. Thought I should fess up.

    Honesty always the best policy. So in return - I doubt LP would have come that close. But I do think she would have been a more challenging opponent for SKS. She'd have worried him at times. Made him squirm a bit. Or perhaps - who knows - brought out the best in him. Yes, RLB has come over as a decent and capable politician, albeit not a leader. Nonsense to say - as some do - that Keir has to exclude her from his shadow cabinet in order to be taken seriously.
    Perhaps, then, RLB is to me is what Matt Hancock is to you?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,752
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Charisma tends to wins US elections not IQ nor debate ability, Kerry, Romney and Hillary all did well in the debates and all lost as they lacked charisma in large part
    Mondale debated Reagan pretty effectively too.
    Yes you have to go back to Nixon in 1968 to find the last time the less charismatic candidate won a presidential election and he beat Humphrey by less than 1% in the popular vote
    Good news for Boris, then.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    By not allowing Spain and Italy to write the same blank cheque that Germany and France have been able to write. Obviously it's a simplistic view but it is costing real lives in both countries that they are not able to handle this medical crisis and at the same time not have the same amazing economic damage alleviation that Germany has put in place.

    As I said, personally I think the EU have been fair here, but then I'm not exactly the kind of person they need on their side, I'd like to see the whole organisation dissolved and replaced with the EEA which I'd want the UK to be a part of. I don't much believe in this idea of solidarity between the 27 (or 28) nations, even though I think we should definitely be helping the worst affected neighbours with expertise and even medical supplies if we have some spare.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Good lord that Biden clip at the end of the last thread.

    Good thing the democrats picked the "electable" candidate
    https://twitter.com/denijeg/status/1245075433353285633

    Much worse than anything else we have seen
    Trump is going to destroy him in the debates. Which is saying something because Trump is terrible at debates.
    But it's too late now, the Dems have made they're pick.
    Charisma tends to wins US elections not IQ nor debate ability, Kerry, Romney and Hillary all did well in the debates and all lost as they lacked charisma in large part
    Mondale debated Reagan pretty effectively too.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v
    What a put down!
    Although in fairness, not directed at Mondale himself.

    Later in that debate though, when Mondale talked about a campaign ad made aboard an aircraft carrier, Reagan drily retorted that if Mondale's previous votes on the subject had taken effect, 'he would be standing in deep water, as he voted against the construction of the Nimitz.'
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kinabalu said:

    He's won the argument.

    And moved the Overton window.
    Indeed, he has, and few will give him credit for that, of course.
    Why would they? Doing so can be good and can be bad, depending how it is moved. His opponents dont thank Farage for shifting it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,000
    tlg86 said:

    Bill Withers is no long still with us.

    :(

    Not a Lovely Day.

    :(
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    OT and in the spirit of lightening the mood somewhat, has anyone else noticed there seem to be a very large number of Chiffchaffs around this year? I seem to be noticing them in every tree at the moment.

    I read earlier in the week that Swallows were now overwintering in Galway. The mild winter might have been kind to smaller birds too.
    There are certainly chiffchaff overwintering in numbers down in the SW. We have Blackcap overwintering too, but research shows these go off to Germany/Poland to get a head start on those coming up from Africa, rather than breeding here.

    The lessening of background noise may also be making the chiffies easier to pick up this year.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    By not allowing Spain and Italy to write the same blank cheque that Germany and France have been able to write. Obviously it's a simplistic view but it is costing real lives in both countries that they are not able to handle this medical crisis and at the same time not have the same amazing economic damage alleviation that Germany has put in place.

    As I said, personally I think the EU have been fair here, but then I'm not exactly the kind of person they need on their side, I'd like to see the whole organisation dissolved and replaced with the EEA which I'd want the UK to be a part of. I don't much believe in this idea of solidarity between the 27 (or 28) nations, even though I think we should definitely be helping the worst affected neighbours with expertise and even medical supplies if we have some spare.
    As I said, the EU is not 'doing nothing'. The ESM is being deployed for now. Eurobonds are a means of last resort.

    Makes sense to favour the EEA, but without the structure of the EU there is no EEA. The EEA is actually an extension of the EU.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,374

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    They need Coronabonds. They need large scale QE so that there is a guaranteed buyer of their bonds in the same way that the BoE has contrived for our government. The ECB are putting too much emphasis on fiscal policies whilst tying the hands of countries as to the scope of these. This puts Italy in particular, and Spain to a large extent in a very difficult situation. If they try anything like Rishi's policies then the cost of their bonds may rise sharply. Here the BoE is guaranteed to rig the market to make sure that does not happen.

    It remains uncertain whether even Rishi's policies are enough. Countries that can only fire one of two barrels are in for a genuinely terrible time.
    As I said in another comment, that time may well come. But it's not now. Not yet.
    Being part of a single currency locks them in - them can't do certain things to help their societies. This is exactly the argument as to the problem with the Euro - it is half a currency system.

    Simply telling them no at this point is madness.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    They need Coronabonds. They need large scale QE so that there is a guaranteed buyer of their bonds in the same way that the BoE has contrived for our government. The ECB are putting too much emphasis on fiscal policies whilst tying the hands of countries as to the scope of these. This puts Italy in particular, and Spain to a large extent in a very difficult situation. If they try anything like Rishi's policies then the cost of their bonds may rise sharply. Here the BoE is guaranteed to rig the market to make sure that does not happen.

    It remains uncertain whether even Rishi's policies are enough. Countries that can only fire one of two barrels are in for a genuinely terrible time.
    As I said in another comment, that time may well come. But it's not now. Not yet.
    Oh but it is. The problem we have is that even going flat out our furlough scheme is not yet up and running. The scheme for the self employed will not come into force until June. By then tens, possibly over 100 thousand businesses will have already collapsed. Many sole traders will be bankrupt. The time to act is right now, last month would have been better.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    tlg86 said:

    Bill Withers is no long still with us.

    :(

    Not a Lovely Day.

    :(
    Beat me to it!

    Ain’t no sunshine where he’s gone...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Stocky said:

    Perhaps, then, RLB is to me is what Matt Hancock is to you?

    We can say that, yes. So, wonder who your Pidcock is? - i.e. conviction politician you like who hardly anybody else on here does.

    IDS?
  • matthiasfromhamburgmatthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    edited April 2020

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    They need Coronabonds. They need large scale QE so that there is a guaranteed buyer of their bonds in the same way that the BoE has contrived for our government. The ECB are putting too much emphasis on fiscal policies whilst tying the hands of countries as to the scope of these. This puts Italy in particular, and Spain to a large extent in a very difficult situation. If they try anything like Rishi's policies then the cost of their bonds may rise sharply. Here the BoE is guaranteed to rig the market to make sure that does not happen.

    It remains uncertain whether even Rishi's policies are enough. Countries that can only fire one of two barrels are in for a genuinely terrible time.
    As I said in another comment, that time may well come. But it's not now. Not yet.
    Being part of a single currency locks them in - them can't do certain things to help their societies. This is exactly the argument as to the problem with the Euro - it is half a currency system.

    Simply telling them no at this point is madness.
    The EU isn't simply telling them no. It's using the ESM to provide liquidity for now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    Derek Draper in ICU apparently.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,374
    And France, Germany, China (to name but a few) have "requisitioned" material passing through their countries...

    It's another irregular verb....
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:


    Dark!
    absolute bollox
    People in distress need scapegoats. European populists have the EU top of their list. No surprise there.
    Yes, that well known populist, err, Alastair Meeks...
    You think he approves the message?
    No, but it doesn't make it not true. It's like when the Telegraph beats up on the government, it's all the more damning.
    Doesn't make it true, either, does it?
    It is true though. I know in your eyes the sainted EU is always good and we are always evil. However, it is probably the case that the EU is both correct in its stance and not doing right by the people of Spain and Italy. It needs to ensure that all 27 nations are satisfied, asking citizens from one to pay for citizens of another isn't right without democratic consent.
    Fully agree with your second sentence. But how exactly has the EU harmed Spain and Italy recently?
    They need Coronabonds. They need large scale QE so that there is a guaranteed buyer of their bonds in the same way that the BoE has contrived for our government. The ECB are putting too much emphasis on fiscal policies whilst tying the hands of countries as to the scope of these. This puts Italy in particular, and Spain to a large extent in a very difficult situation. If they try anything like Rishi's policies then the cost of their bonds may rise sharply. Here the BoE is guaranteed to rig the market to make sure that does not happen.

    It remains uncertain whether even Rishi's policies are enough. Countries that can only fire one of two barrels are in for a genuinely terrible time.
    As I said in another comment, that time may well come. But it's not now. Not yet.
    Oh but it is. The problem we have is that even going flat out our furlough scheme is not yet up and running. The scheme for the self employed will not come into force until June. By then tens, possibly over 100 thousand businesses will have already collapsed. Many sole traders will be bankrupt. The time to act is right now, last month would have been better.
    Every country around the world will need mountains of magicked up liquidity, no question.
    But exactly because of the enormous scale it might be important to be a little careful.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    For those who thought the Chinese were being arseholes in disciplining the doctor who raised fears about CV-19:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52145230
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    The whole article is worth reading, but the concluding paragraph of that article ( which is itself a quote from here https://www.cebm.net/2020/03/covid-19-the-tipping-point ) is worth highlighting.

    "Lockdown is going to bankrupt all of us and our descendants and is unlikely at this point to slow or halt viral circulation as the genie is out of the bottle.

    “What the current situation boils down to is this: is economic meltdown a price worth paying to halt or delay what is already amongst us?”
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Perhaps, then, RLB is to me is what Matt Hancock is to you?

    We can say that, yes. So, wonder who your Pidcock is? - i.e. conviction politician you like who hardly anybody else on here does.

    IDS?
    Perhaps Ed Davey? Maybe Hilary Benn. But no-one close to your admiration of the Pidders.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Perhaps, then, RLB is to me is what Matt Hancock is to you?

    We can say that, yes. So, wonder who your Pidcock is? - i.e. conviction politician you like who hardly anybody else on here does.

    IDS?
    Perhaps Ed Davey? Maybe Hilary Benn. But no-one close to your admiration of the Pidders.
    I`ve got some time for Stephen Kinnock too.
This discussion has been closed.