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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Michigan Governor, Gretchen Whitmer, the woman who’s got under

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  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    No lawyer, but handing your house to junior whilst Mrs F continues to live in it opens up questions of paying rent for the use. Can't remember the posh legal word for this, but it is an issue with IHT.
    Mrs Foxy would own her half in any case, is this the sort of thing for a Trust? Fox Jr is over 18 now.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    Foxy said:

    As posted down thread, but from Guardian...

    The number of people who have died in England after contracting coronavirus now stands at 1,284 – a rise of 159 from yesterday – NHS England has said.

    The patients were aged between 32 and 98 years old and all but four, aged between 56 and 87 years old, had underlying health conditions, according to the PA news agency.

    I think that is ~180 deaths UK wide.

    It is noticeable that every day now we do get some really young people passing away. Most have underlying health conditions, but still.

    Does anyone know if "underlying health conditions" includes things like a BMI > 30, or smoking, or is it only something with a formal diagnosis?
    They are in the footnote here:


    Does 'advanced respiratory support' mean intubation (and anything beyond that) ?
    Those figures are scary indeed.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    isam said:

    Piers Morgan vs Peter Hitchens now on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/clarkemicah/status/1244629695129403392?s=21


    It's like trying to choose between Stalin or Hilter...
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    edited March 2020

    isam said:

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Not sure what you are looking at, it seems to me we have slightly extended the 14 days referred to to 15 (and a little bit) - waiting on UK-wide figures to confirm.
    UK's in 1415 today - versus 1809.
    Vs 2158 I think
    Today's figures are for yesterday's date. So 1809.
    So on the date we were meant to be both on 227, we weren’t really?

    Sorry 233
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,408
    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    I'm no lawyer but unless you expect Mrs F to keel over in the next few months, aren't you putting the cart before the horse? She could stagger on for the next 40 or 50 years. Best to leave it to whoever you want to have Fox Towers, your second-best stethoscope and the recently acquired Van Gogh. Which reminds me, I really ought to get around to making my own will.
  • Options
    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    stjohn said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Borough, Italexit?

    Quitaly, surely?

    I think Quitaly sounds much better, personally.
    Quality post!

    There's a well worn social media list of these ...some better than others admittedly

    Swedone
    Espanope
    Abortugal
    Quitaly
    AdiEU
    Withdrawsaw
    Nethermind
    Outstria
    Sleavenia
    Donemark
    Noatia
    Finnished
    Czechout
    Cyaprus



  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Joe Ashton has died.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Cyclefree said:

    felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It didn't take the police long to find mission creep in the powers they've been given, did it?

    Now, anyone care to guess when these powers will be repealed? We can do this by month, year or decade - your call.

    It’s not just mission creep. It’s worse than that. They’re acting illegally - even under the very wide powers they’ve been given.

    That is wrong, virus or no virus.

    Warrington police’s Twitter seems like an audition to be a BBC comedian


    https://twitter.com/policewarr/status/1243941892817117185?s=21
    What are “incident people”?

    And can we have a rule forbidding policemen and other public officials to go outside or say or do anything until they have learnt how to write English?
    Spellcheck for innocent, I assume!
    Sloppy writing and even sloppier thinking.

    The virus is not “targeting” anyone. Innocence is irrelevant.

    The behaviour of the police has been abysmal. If we have to have restrictions for up to 6 months the way the police and local officials are behaving is going to make it impossible for these to work. People are - rightly - not going to take seriously instructions or advice from people who do not behave lawfully themselves and/or who make fools of themselves over Easter eggs.
    Well they have to do something to fill the time

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/05/police-forces-record-thousands-hate-incidents-year-even-though/

    "More than 87,000 ‘non-crime hate incidents’ have been recorded by 27 forces in England and Wales over the past five years, when the national policing body introduced its Hate Crime Operational Guidelines.

    The guidelines state that an incident - perceived to be motivated by hostility towards religion, race or transgender identity - must be recorded “irrespective of whether there is any evidence to identify the hate element” and can even show up on an individual’s DBS check, despite them not committing a crime. "
    As I have said on various thread headers - most recently here - https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/ - the police are simply not fit for purpose.
    FFS - really! This is your priority? Now?
    My priority is not catching this virus. Which is why I have been self-isolated for over 10 days now and not been out of the house.

    You?

    I am also quite capable of thinking about more than one thing at a time. I do not think that a dangerous virus is a good reason for allowing the police - or anyone else - to ignore the law, especially when they have been given all the powers they need. I think this not because of some abstract theory but because if the regulations brought in to protect us all - and especially people like me - are abused and brought into disrepute then that increases the risks for all of us.

    Yet despite your claim you are ready to pronounce on every little failing highlighted by the hacks to condemn 'the police' out of hand . Maybe try getting some perspective. You have made clear ad nauseum your views on the British police, while showing no consideration for the scale and difficulty of the task they have and give excuses to barrack room lawyers everywhere to make it even harder.

    As for me - I have been under a more severe lockdown than in the UK for 15 days now with at least another 10 to go. We have Police and Army enforcing the rules and most of us can understand why it is vital to avoid the ICU meltdown extending to our area in the way reached by almost half the country already. Easter eggs and their sale are not one of my priorities.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    I'm no lawyer but unless you expect Mrs F to keel over in the next few months, aren't you putting the cart before the horse? She could stagger on for the next 40 or 50 years. Best to leave it to whoever you want to have Fox Towers, your second-best stethoscope and the recently acquired Van Gogh. Which reminds me, I really ought to get around to making my own will.
    Both Mrs Foxy and I will be at work, with high occupational risk, hence my thoughts on a Trust.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,210

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    No lawyer, but handing your house to junior whilst Mrs F continues to live in it opens up questions of paying rent for the use. Can't remember the posh legal word for this, but it is an issue with IHT.
    A gift with reservation is the legal term.

    Best getting advice. There will be plenty of will lawyers willing to do the work for you for a modest fee.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    BigRich said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nice to see Mr Neill trying to maintain some professional standards and some level of individual decency by having a deeper look into matters, reconsidering his views and correcting himself.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1244235433694973952?s=20

    Good for him.
    Is there still not some uncertainty over the percentage of mild/asymptomatic cases Germany's more widespread testing might have identified, though ?
    The genuine source of the difference would be extremely interesting to know, from a public health policy point of view. I look forward to the result of the inevitable scientific enquiry into this.

    One question I have - what tests is Germany using: All the lengthy, lab tests, or are they using the quick tests in combination (see South Korea)?
    So far as I know lab tests. Quick tests might be available somewhere in Germany, though I've not heard of it.

    There's lots of countries following exactly the same trajectory as Germany: lots of confirmed cases with at first very few deaths, followed by deaths slowly catching up. Which is exactly what you would expect if the testing is doing a reasonable job of tracking the epidemic, given that it takes an average of 20 days to die.

    The USA has done the opposite - a high initial death rate because no testing but now lower because a lot of testing. Maybe soon Germany and US will have same death rate.

    The way I see it, any country without this pattern of very low early death rate has probably failed to catch many of the early infections with testing, which probably does have public health policy implications.
    So where are they getting the enormous volumes (relatively) of reagents and lab time required?
    Lots of labs
    I suspect that I will get a lot of hate on here for saying this.

    But Germany has essentially a privet healthcare system. (with a lot of regulation and the government paying for insurance for the poor) but I suspect that as a result they were therefor more dynamic with the ability to rapidly expand testing.
    Hedging their bets? No use beating around the bush.
    I don't understand?
    'Privet' healthcare.
    Keeping a fence around the infected.
    LOL Sorry Dyslexia stryks again!
    No problem.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,000
    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Deaths up by +180 to 1408 - DOH.

    2 days of reduction in a row.

  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    It depends on how much and the taxes you are worried about (Inheritance Tax is obvious but, if assets are being sold in probate, Capital Gains Tax is highly relevant).

    Broadly, if you transfer all assets to your wife, you're not using your nil rate band and she can use your unused allowance as well as her own when she dies (and presumably the arrangement is likely to be reciprocal if she passes first). So you may well not need to bother with a trust arrangement if you've a fairly simple estate. However, it's worth paying for professional advice if your estate is very large (well over the threshold) or complex (substantial shareholdings, property assets etc).

    Also consider reducing liability with some gifts while you're alive (there's a £3k annual allowance, and above that it's only included in your estate if you die within seven years).

    Also consider remembering various charities in the will - the gifts are exempt, plus if 10%+ of the net estate is left to charity, this reduces the rate on the remainder from 40% to 36%.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,255
    https://twitter.com/metrolanderldn/status/1244636214621339651

    I'm sorry. What part of social distancing to this come under?
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,955
    Amazing to see so-called libertarians in this thread suddenly in support of coppers arresting you for buying easter eggs.

    It's not a prinicple until it costs you something. Liberty, even in these times, still has value.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nice to see Mr Neill trying to maintain some professional standards and some level of individual decency by having a deeper look into matters, reconsidering his views and correcting himself.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1244235433694973952?s=20

    Good for him.
    Is there still not some uncertainty over the percentage of mild/asymptomatic cases Germany's more widespread testing might have identified, though ?
    The genuine source of the difference would be extremely interesting to know, from a public health policy point of view. I look forward to the result of the inevitable scientific enquiry into this.

    One question I have - what tests is Germany using: All the lengthy, lab tests, or are they using the quick tests in combination (see South Korea)?
    So far as I know lab tests. Quick tests might be available somewhere in Germany, though I've not heard of it.

    There's lots of countries following exactly the same trajectory as Germany: lots of confirmed cases with at first very few deaths, followed by deaths slowly catching up. Which is exactly what you would expect if the testing is doing a reasonable job of tracking the epidemic, given that it takes an average of 20 days to die.

    The USA has done the opposite - a high initial death rate because no testing but now lower because a lot of testing. Maybe soon Germany and US will have same death rate.

    The way I see it, any country without this pattern of very low early death rate has probably failed to catch many of the early infections with testing, which probably does have public health policy implications.
    So where are they getting the enormous volumes (relatively) of reagents and lab time required?
    Lots of labs
    I suspect that I will get a lot of hate on here for saying this.

    But Germany has essentially a privet healthcare system. (with a lot of regulation and the government paying for insurance for the poor) but I suspect that as a result they were therefor more dynamic with the ability to rapidly expand testing.
    Hedging their bets? No use beating around the bush.
    I don't understand?
    'Privet' healthcare.
    Keeping a fence around the infected.
    LOL Sorry Dyslexia stryks again!
    No problem.
    Privet healthcare would be very English. Everyone gets their own little bit of garden split into 2m blocks by a nice privet hedge. Supervised by the Derbyshire Police drone and Daily Mail cameras to make sure that no-one is doing anything they shouldn't.
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    edited March 2020

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    No lawyer, but handing your house to junior whilst Mrs F continues to live in it opens up questions of paying rent for the use. Can't remember the posh legal word for this, but it is an issue with IHT.
    I think that may be a Gift with Reservation, but I'm not a Private Client lawyer. With that caveat in mind, I also believe that if you leave everything to your spouse then they also 'inherit' your IHT threshold so when the second spouse dies the combined threshold applies to their estate.

    Make sure you include specific wording for who gets your pasta stockpile. Wouldn't want a family argument at such a fractious time.

    EDIT: I've seen your comment about her owning half the house anyway, I'd have thought that would resolve any issues on that point. Caveat above applies, obviously this isn't legal advice.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TGOHF666 said:

    Deaths up by +180 to 1408 - DOH.

    2 days of reduction in a row.

    Those figures are encouraging. Fingers crossed.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,210
    edited March 2020
    felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It didn't take the police long to find mission creep in the powers they've been given, did it?

    Now, anyone care to guess when these powers will be repealed? We can do this by month, year or decade - your call.

    It’s not just mission creep. It’s worse than that. They’re acting illegally - even under the very wide powers they’ve been given.

    That is wrong, virus or no virus.

    Warrington police’s Twitter seems like an audition to be a BBC comedian


    https://twitter.com/policewarr/status/1243941892817117185?s=21
    What are “incident people”?

    And can we have a rule forbidding policemen and other public officials to go outside or say or do anything until they have learnt how to write English?
    Spellcheck for innocent, I assume!
    Sloppy writing and even sloppier thinking.

    The virus is not “targeting” anyone. Innocence is irrelevant.

    The behaviour of the police has been abysmal. If we have to have restrictions for up to 6 months the way the police and local officials are behaving is going to make it impossible for these to work. People are - rightly - not going to take seriously instructions or advice from people who do not behave lawfully themselves and/or who make fools of themselves over Easter eggs.
    Well they have to do something to fill the time

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/05/police-forces-record-thousands-hate-incidents-year-even-though/

    "More than 87,000 ‘non-crime hate incidents’ have been recorded by 27 forces in England and Wales over the past five years, when the national policing body introduced its Hate Crime Operational Guidelines.

    The guidelines state that an incident - perceived to be motivated by hostility towards religion, race or transgender identity - must be recorded “irrespective of whether there is any evidence to identify the hate element” and can even show up on an individual’s DBS check, despite them not committing a crime. "
    As I have said on various thread headers - most recently here - https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/ - the police are simply not fit for purpose.
    FFS - really! This is your priority? Now?
    My priority is not catching this virus. Which is why I have been self-isolated for over 10 days now and not been out of the house.

    You?

    I am also quite capable of thinking about more than one thing at a time. I do not think that a dangerous virus is a good reason for allowing the police - or anyone else - to ignore the law, especially when they have been given all the powers they need. I think this not because of some abstract theory but because if the regulations brought in to protect us all - and especially people like me - are abused and brought into disrepute then that increases the risks for all of us.

    Yet despite your claim you are ready to pronounce on every little failing highlighted by the hacks to condemn 'the police' out of hand . Maybe try getting some perspective. You have made clear ad nauseum your views on the British police, while showing no consideration for the scale and difficulty of the task they have and give excuses to barrack room lawyers everywhere to make it even harder.

    As for me - I have been under a more severe lockdown than in the UK for 15 days now with at least another 10 to go. We have Police and Army enforcing the rules and most of us can understand why it is vital to avoid the ICU meltdown extending to our area in the way reached by almost half the country already. Easter eggs and their sale are not one of my priorities.
    Easter eggs are not my priority either. Are you not in the U.K.? If so where, if you don’t mind my asking.

    I don’t accept that knowing what the law is is a difficult task for the police. It is their basic and fundamental task and yes I will criticise them if they fail at it. Because such a failing puts all of us at risk - and not just when there is a virus.

    At any event, I hope you stay safe wherever you are.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    eadric said:

    When they write the history of this virus, the official advice that "masks don't work" - a total knowing lie, to try and make us stop buying them - will go down as one of the most grievous, dangerous errors of all.


    https://twitter.com/wrathofgnon/status/1244617400361746432?s=20

    Yes absolutely, and while it might not of helped the situation with PPE in hospitals in the sort term, if it was emphasized that any mask will have some effect, it would have created a demand and new companys would have quickly entered the market, and expand supply very quickly.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    Nigelb said:

    BigRich said:

    BigRich said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nice to see Mr Neill trying to maintain some professional standards and some level of individual decency by having a deeper look into matters, reconsidering his views and correcting himself.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1244235433694973952?s=20

    Good for him.
    Is there still not some uncertainty over the percentage of mild/asymptomatic cases Germany's more widespread testing might have identified, though ?
    The genuine source of the difference would be extremely interesting to know, from a public health policy point of view. I look forward to the result of the inevitable scientific enquiry into this.

    One question I have - what tests is Germany using: All the lengthy, lab tests, or are they using the quick tests in combination (see South Korea)?
    So far as I know lab tests. Quick tests might be available somewhere in Germany, though I've not heard of it.

    There's lots of countries following exactly the same trajectory as Germany: lots of confirmed cases with at first very few deaths, followed by deaths slowly catching up. Which is exactly what you would expect if the testing is doing a reasonable job of tracking the epidemic, given that it takes an average of 20 days to die.

    The USA has done the opposite - a high initial death rate because no testing but now lower because a lot of testing. Maybe soon Germany and US will have same death rate.

    The way I see it, any country without this pattern of very low early death rate has probably failed to catch many of the early infections with testing, which probably does have public health policy implications.
    So where are they getting the enormous volumes (relatively) of reagents and lab time required?
    Lots of labs
    I suspect that I will get a lot of hate on here for saying this.

    But Germany has essentially a privet healthcare system. (with a lot of regulation and the government paying for insurance for the poor) but I suspect that as a result they were therefor more dynamic with the ability to rapidly expand testing.
    Hedging their bets? No use beating around the bush.
    I don't understand?
    'Privet' healthcare.
    Keeping a fence around the infected.
    LOL Sorry Dyslexia stryks again!
    No problem.
    Privet healthcare would be very English. Everyone gets their own little bit of garden split into 2m blocks by a nice privet hedge. Supervised by the Derbyshire Police drone and Daily Mail cameras to make sure that no-one is doing anything they shouldn't.
    They would then drone on endlessly about people breaking it...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2020
    Still not enough tests. 2619 new cases on what only 7000 odd tests.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1244651132879806471?s=20
  • Options
    matthiasfromhamburgmatthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    edited March 2020
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:
    If true, surely Hungary will be expelled from the EU?
    For measures taken in a genuine emergency which have not yet been abused? Seems improbable even if the measures look dreadful.
    Given there is no legal provision in the treaties to 'expel' a member state, this could only ever be a political process, and that is indeed improbable.
    Furthermore, it may not be the wisest thing to expel Orban, anyway.
    Only half of Hungary is standing behind him, the other half has different views and needs friends outside of the country.
    The rest of the EU can not exert a lot of pressure initially but may have more influence on the development in the long term with Hungary in the EU, rather than on its doorstep.
    Orban gets away with being a tinpot dictator because Hungarian elites - business people etc allow him to be. Treating Hungary and in particular those elites as pariahs can be effective. But I'm not seeing that level of resolve amongst their European counterparts.
    I think it's a little more complicated than that.
    Like any other country Hungary does have some people you could call an 'elite', but in my experience his support in these circles is rather limited, they are more of the open-minded, 'global outlook' kind.

    His support base is quite diverse. There are xenophobic, nationalist bigots. There are outright racists and even some you can legitimately call fascist, but there are many more who are merely conservative and have - so far, at least - taken the bait of his populist propaganda bullshit, but may reconsider their views.

    The EU will have to come up with a response beyond mere warning words, but going from regular member state to pariah in one instance may be lacking nuance and be ultimately unhelpful.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    felix said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Deaths up by +180 to 1408 - DOH.

    2 days of reduction in a row.

    Those figures are encouraging. Fingers crossed.
    How many days before it's a trend ?

    Or is it a weekend effect ?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
    On deaths, it's 15 days -

    14 March (Italy) - 1441
    29 March (UK) - 1408


    BUT to say we are 15 days behind implies that our RESPONSE if 15 days behind - which it isn't.

    Let's see what this week brings.
  • Options
    TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Still not enough tests. 2619 new cases on what only 7000 odd tests.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1244651132879806471?s=20

    Surely deaths dropping means more than tests ?

    If we had done another 2000 negative tests what would that get us ?
  • Options
    eadric said:

    When they write the history of this virus, the official advice that "masks don't work" - a total knowing lie, to try and make us stop buying them - will go down as one of the most grievous, dangerous errors of all.


    https://twitter.com/wrathofgnon/status/1244617400361746432?s=20

    Are you fully aware that the tweet you posted reports the move by the Austrian government to make wearing masks compulsory in public?
    Something to be commended, in my mind.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Deaths up by +180 to 1408 - DOH.

    2 days of reduction in a row.

    Those figures are encouraging. Fingers crossed.
    How many days before it's a trend ?

    Or is it a weekend effect ?
    Is there any particular reason you're less likely to die at the weekend than in the week?

    I actually thought in normal times it was the opposite and you were more likely to die in hospital at the weekend as if you're in hospital on a weekend you're more likely to be very ill and also there's fewer medical staff around?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930


    Big Brother or Colonel K?


  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,313
    I'm with Lord Sumption and @isam and @Cyclefree on this.

    The pandemic needs a response and the government, via its SI, has given one, informed by the scientists.

    Sumption may not be an epidemiologist but then neither are Derbyshire police.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,255
    eadric said:

    This is a great bit of data crunching

    See how RISKY your job is

    TLDR: Farmers are fine. Nurses should get prizes

    https://autonomy.work/portfolio/jari/?fbclid=IwAR3fq0T30gdwNiECr4IFaSCwM4sbEjZysUdpG7j63IkPMpA3ZbCHjA2tOww

    Novelists must be fine as long as they skip the awards ceremonies and the London publishing parties.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    kyf_100 said:

    Amazing to see so-called libertarians in this thread suddenly in support of coppers arresting you for buying easter eggs.

    It's not a prinicple until it costs you something. Liberty, even in these times, still has value.

    No-one on here has said such a thing - notr has anyone been arrested. This is how fake news spreads.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,788

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
    On deaths, it's 15 days -

    BUT to say we are 15 days behind implies that our RESPONSE if 15 days behind - which it isn't.

    Really? I hadn't taken it that way at all.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,788
    isam said:



    Big Brother or Colonel K?


    Jeez, someone window his image next time, no need to take up the whole screen.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,723

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
    I'm not keen on maintaining a death stats competition with other countries. On those numbers however we have moved during the past week from being 14 days behind Italy to being 15 days behind.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,994

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    No lawyer, but handing your house to junior whilst Mrs F continues to live in it opens up questions of paying rent for the use. Can't remember the posh legal word for this, but it is an issue with IHT.
    I'm not a lawyer but I'm almost certain that, as you share your IHT allowance with your wife, you do not risk paying any extra IHT by leaving it all to her. It is by far the simplest option.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    edited March 2020
    FF43 said:

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
    I'm not keen on maintaining a death stats competition with other countries. On those numbers however we have moved during the past week from being 14 days behind Italy to being 15 days behind.
    Why are taking the 233 to be for the day announced, but today to be for yesterday?

    Tweet in 21st March was 233

    https://twitter.com/dhscgovuk/status/1241428067081433088?s=21
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,462
    TGOHF666 said:

    Still not enough tests. 2619 new cases on what only 7000 odd tests.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1244651132879806471?s=20

    Surely deaths dropping means more than tests ?

    If we had done another 2000 negative tests what would that get us ?
    It's the only stat in this that means anything really.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    No lawyer, but handing your house to junior whilst Mrs F continues to live in it opens up questions of paying rent for the use. Can't remember the posh legal word for this, but it is an issue with IHT.
    A gift with reservation is the legal term.

    Best getting advice. There will be plenty of will lawyers willing to do the work for you for a modest fee.
    Having looked the term up, isn't that for gifts rather than inheritance?

    Am I right in thinking that the couples allowance makes my dilemma irrelevant? If Mrs Foxy gets the lot, then expires herself, the couples allowance then applies, so Fox jr gets the benefit of both our allowances?
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Deaths up by +180 to 1408 - DOH.

    2 days of reduction in a row.

    Those figures are encouraging. Fingers crossed.
    How many days before it's a trend ?

    Or is it a weekend effect ?
    Is there any particular reason you're less likely to die at the weekend than in the week?

    I actually thought in normal times it was the opposite and you were more likely to die in hospital at the weekend as if you're in hospital on a weekend you're more likely to be very ill and also there's fewer medical staff around?
    I think that was the very point being made - that the death rate was quite high this weekend.

    I doubt there is such an effect going on, and the reverse was true last weekend (last Sunday in particular had an exceptionally low death rate). However, there is need for great caution as many things could be going on - for example, there may be improvements in stabilising the symptoms but a lot more could be in a critical condition. So encouraging but only very cautiously.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,788
    TOPPING said:

    I'm with Lord Sumption and @isam and @Cyclefree on this.

    The pandemic needs a response and the government, via its SI, has given one, informed by the scientists.

    Sumption may not be an epidemiologist but then neither are Derbyshire police.

    It seems perfectly possible to be supportive of the police in their duties entirely, and also consider that not all police understand the extent of their duties and what the advice and law requires of them and us.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Cyclefree said:

    felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    felix said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It didn't take the police long to find mission creep in the powers they've been given, did it?

    Now, anyone care to guess when these powers will be repealed? We can do this by month, year or decade - your call.

    It’s not just mission creep. It’s worse than that. They’re acting illegally - even under the very wide powers they’ve been given.

    That is wrong, virus or no virus.

    Warrington police’s Twitter seems like an audition to be a BBC comedian


    https://twitter.com/policewarr/status/1243941892817117185?s=21
    What are “incident people”?

    And can we have a rule forbidding policemen and other public officials to go outside or say or do anything until they have learnt how to write English?
    Spellcheck for innocent, I assume!
    Sloppy writing and even sloppier thinking.

    The virus is not “targeting” anyone. Innocence is irrelevant.

    The behaviour of the police has been abysmal. If we have to have restrictions for up to 6 months the way the police and local officials are behaving is going to make it impossible for these to work. People are - rightly - not going to take seriously instructions or advice from people who do not behave lawfully themselves and/or who make fools of themselves over Easter eggs.
    Well they have to do something to fill the time

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/05/police-forces-record-thousands-hate-incidents-year-even-though/

    "More than 87,000 ‘non-crime hate incidents’ have been recorded by 27 forces in England and Wales over the past five years, when the national policing body introduced its Hate Crime Operational Guidelines.

    The guidelines state that an incident - perceived to be motivated by hostility towards religion, race or transgender identity - must be recorded “irrespective of whether there is any evidence to identify the hate element” and can even show up on an individual’s DBS check, despite them not committing a crime. "
    As I have said on various thread headers - most recently here - https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2020/01/17/a-toxic-culture/ - the police are simply not fit for purpose.
    FFS - really! This is your priority? Now?
    My priority is not catching this virus. Which is why I have been self-isolated for over 10 days now and not been out of the house.

    You?

    I am also quite capable of thinking about more than one thing at a time. I do not think that a dangerous virus is a good reason for allowing the police - or anyone else - to ignore the law, especially when they have been given all the powers they need. I think this not because of some abstract theory but because if the regulations brought in to protect us all - and especially people like me - are abused and brought into disrepute then that increases the risks for all of us.

    Yet despite your claim you are ready to pronounce on every little failing highlighted by the hacks to condemn 'the police' out of hand . Maybe try getting some perspective. You have made clear ad nauseum your views on the British police, while showing no consideration for the scale and difficulty of the task they have and give excuses to barrack room lawyers everywhere to make it even harder.

    As for me - I have been under a more severe lockdown than in the UK for 15 days now with at least another 10 to go. We have Police and Army enforcing the rules and most of us can understand why it is vital to avoid the ICU meltdown extending to our area in the way reached by almost half the country already. Easter eggs and their sale are not one of my priorities.
    Easter eggs are not my priority either. Are you not in the U.K.? If so where, if you don’t mind my asking.

    I don’t accept that knowing what the law is is a difficult task for the police. It is their basic and fundamental task and yes I will criticise them if they fail at it. Because such a failing puts all of us at risk - and not just when there is a virus.

    At any event, I hope you stay safe wherever you are.
    We can agree to differ on priorities. I am in, relatively safe, rural SE Spain with underlying health conditions. I have great respect for the country in which I am a guest. Being here has taught me that bad things do not only happen in the UK. I am too happy here to consider ever a return but nowhere is perfect.
    The UK gets way more things right than wrong.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,723
    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
    I'm not keen on maintaining a death stats competition with other countries. On those numbers however we have moved during the past week from being 14 days behind Italy to being 15 days behind.
    Why are taking the 233 to be for the day announced, but today to be for yesterday?
    Because the UK changed its measurement period a few days ago. The stats released today are for yesterday.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TGOHF666 said:

    Still not enough tests. 2619 new cases on what only 7000 odd tests.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1244651132879806471?s=20

    Surely deaths dropping means more than tests ?

    If we had done another 2000 negative tests what would that get us ?
    I think the news is welcome. Even if not a trend it is helping with buying time. The focus however, should be very much on bed occupation, especially ICU and ventilator use. These are the two big problems in Italy, France and Spain right now.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,279

    Still not enough tests. 2619 new cases on what only 7000 odd tests.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1244651132879806471?s=20

    The UK reported 8400 tests 11 days ago and has only exceeded that number of daily tests once since.

    It's not good enough, and if better wasn't possible they shouldn't have promised rubbish about ramping up the number of tests.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,994

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    It depends on how much and the taxes you are worried about (Inheritance Tax is obvious but, if assets are being sold in probate, Capital Gains Tax is highly relevant).

    Broadly, if you transfer all assets to your wife, you're not using your nil rate band and she can use your unused allowance as well as her own when she dies (and presumably the arrangement is likely to be reciprocal if she passes first). So you may well not need to bother with a trust arrangement if you've a fairly simple estate. However, it's worth paying for professional advice if your estate is very large (well over the threshold) or complex (substantial shareholdings, property assets etc).

    Also consider reducing liability with some gifts while you're alive (there's a £3k annual allowance, and above that it's only included in your estate if you die within seven years).

    Also consider remembering various charities in the will - the gifts are exempt, plus if 10%+ of the net estate is left to charity, this reduces the rate on the remainder from 40% to 36%.
    Remmber also that you can give regular gifts out of your income free of IHT if does not impact your standard of living.
    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm14231
    Foxy: If you have income surplus your needs you could make regular gifts to your son without incurring IHT. Keep a record. I'm doing this with my son.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,313
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm with Lord Sumption and @isam and @Cyclefree on this.

    The pandemic needs a response and the government, via its SI, has given one, informed by the scientists.

    Sumption may not be an epidemiologist but then neither are Derbyshire police.

    It seems perfectly possible to be supportive of the police in their duties entirely, and also consider that not all police understand the extent of their duties and what the advice and law requires of them and us.
    The SI is pretty explicit. I don't see a huge challenge for the police to understand it. This is analogous to poor old Walter Wolfgang.
  • Options
    ABZABZ Posts: 441

    TGOHF666 said:

    Still not enough tests. 2619 new cases on what only 7000 odd tests.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1244651132879806471?s=20

    Surely deaths dropping means more than tests ?

    If we had done another 2000 negative tests what would that get us ?
    It's the only stat in this that means anything really.
    As long as we are working off a comparable set of people being tested, the fraction of positives is useful (i.e., primarily testing those admitted to hospital). If that changes (or if we double tests by sampling more broadly) the numbers will be less easy to compare.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,279
    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
    I'm not keen on maintaining a death stats competition with other countries. On those numbers however we have moved during the past week from being 14 days behind Italy to being 15 days behind.
    Why are taking the 233 to be for the day announced, but today to be for yesterday?

    Tweet in 21st March was 233

    https://twitter.com/dhscgovuk/status/1241428067081433088?s=21
    The UK changed its reporting times for deaths back by 16 hours recently.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    edited March 2020

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Deaths up by +180 to 1408 - DOH.

    2 days of reduction in a row.

    Those figures are encouraging. Fingers crossed.
    How many days before it's a trend ?

    Or is it a weekend effect ?
    Is there any particular reason you're less likely to die at the weekend than in the week?

    I actually thought in normal times it was the opposite and you were more likely to die in hospital at the weekend as if you're in hospital on a weekend you're more likely to be very ill and also there's fewer medical staff around?
    However, there is need for great caution as many things could be going on - for example, there may be improvements in stabilising the symptoms but a lot more could be in a critical condition. So encouraging but only very cautiously.
    Yes, as time is going on they could also be experimenting with different treatments and drugs that hopefully get more and more refined and successful.

    That's why much as my instinct would be to agree with Peter Hitchens on the lock down I think the longer you can delay getting the virus, through whatever means possible, the more likely it is you'll have a successful outcome because over time they will come to understand which treatments work best of COVID-19 and which aren't much use.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    Still not enough tests. 2619 new cases on what only 7000 odd tests.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1244651132879806471?s=20

    The UK reported 8400 tests 11 days ago and has only exceeded that number of daily tests once since.

    It's not good enough, and if better wasn't possible they shouldn't have promised rubbish about ramping up the number of tests.
    I now wonder if they are not lumping in tests of NHS workers into these statistics.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,994
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    No lawyer, but handing your house to junior whilst Mrs F continues to live in it opens up questions of paying rent for the use. Can't remember the posh legal word for this, but it is an issue with IHT.
    A gift with reservation is the legal term.

    Best getting advice. There will be plenty of will lawyers willing to do the work for you for a modest fee.
    Having looked the term up, isn't that for gifts rather than inheritance?

    Am I right in thinking that the couples allowance makes my dilemma irrelevant? If Mrs Foxy gets the lot, then expires herself, the couples allowance then applies, so Fox jr gets the benefit of both our allowances?
    Correct
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
    I'm not keen on maintaining a death stats competition with other countries. On those numbers however we have moved during the past week from being 14 days behind Italy to being 15 days behind.
    Why are taking the 233 to be for the day announced, but today to be for yesterday?
    Because the UK changed its measurement period a few days ago. The stats released today are for yesterday.

    But they used to announce ‘as of 9am’ at about 6pm. So in effect they were the previous days numbers, they just announce them earlier now

    https://twitter.com/dhscgovuk/status/1241428067081433088?s=21
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,897

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Deaths up by +180 to 1408 - DOH.

    2 days of reduction in a row.

    Those figures are encouraging. Fingers crossed.
    How many days before it's a trend ?

    Or is it a weekend effect ?
    Is there any particular reason you're less likely to die at the weekend than in the week?

    I actually thought in normal times it was the opposite and you were more likely to die in hospital at the weekend as if you're in hospital on a weekend you're more likely to be very ill and also there's fewer medical staff around?
    I think that was the very point being made - that the death rate was quite high this weekend.

    I doubt there is such an effect going on, and the reverse was true last weekend (last Sunday in particular had an exceptionally low death rate). However, there is need for great caution as many things could be going on - for example, there may be improvements in stabilising the symptoms but a lot more could be in a critical condition. So encouraging but only very cautiously.
    The figures are published roughly 24 hours behind so there were more deaths on Friday (reported Saturday) than on either Saturday or Sunday.

    I would expect there to be a modest decrease in tests over a weekend, but I would expect deaths to not be day-of-week sensitive.

    If the number of deaths reported tomorrow is under 260 the Friday (reported Saturday) figure, then that will be really good news for the UK. Fingers crossed.
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Ted Knight of Lambeth council fame has died. He was born in 1933
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,897

    https://twitter.com/metrolanderldn/status/1244636214621339651

    I'm sorry. What part of social distancing to this come under?

    Aren't they all photoshopped?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,679

    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    It depends on how much and the taxes you are worried about (Inheritance Tax is obvious but, if assets are being sold in probate, Capital Gains Tax is highly relevant).

    Broadly, if you transfer all assets to your wife, you're not using your nil rate band and she can use your unused allowance as well as her own when she dies (and presumably the arrangement is likely to be reciprocal if she passes first). So you may well not need to bother with a trust arrangement if you've a fairly simple estate. However, it's worth paying for professional advice if your estate is very large (well over the threshold) or complex (substantial shareholdings, property assets etc).

    Also consider reducing liability with some gifts while you're alive (there's a £3k annual allowance, and above that it's only included in your estate if you die within seven years).

    Also consider remembering various charities in the will - the gifts are exempt, plus if 10%+ of the net estate is left to charity, this reduces the rate on the remainder from 40% to 36%.
    Thanks.

    My estate is fairly simple. House and field, and shares in my own company.

    I supported Fox jr through Uni, more than £3,000 per year. Presumably, unless I live seven years that counts as part of the estate for IHT purposes?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267
    This thread

    has been cautioned for buying an Easter Egg

  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Italy

    Active cases: 101,739 (+1,648 net)
    Death: +812 (total 11,591)
    Healed: +1,590 (toal 14,620)

    New cases: +4.050

    Tests: 477,359 (454,030 yesterday)
  • Options
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    When they write the history of this virus, the official advice that "masks don't work" - a total knowing lie, to try and make us stop buying them - will go down as one of the most grievous, dangerous errors of all.


    https://twitter.com/wrathofgnon/status/1244617400361746432?s=20

    Are you fully aware that the tweet you posted reports the move by the Austrian government to make wearing masks compulsory in public?
    Something to be commended, in my mind.
    Of course I am aware of that. And yes the Austrian move is the right one. I've been saying this for weeks on this site: masks stop the spread. We should all wear them.

    And yet the official advice in too many places has been the opposite. Here's an example:

    https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160?s=20

    Absolutely irresponsible.

    The US and UK governments should have been bulk buying masks in early Feb, for a few billion, and preparing an educational programme to get us all to wear them.

    They left it waaaaaay to late and now they have to spend HUNDREDS of billions, to save the population.
    I wholeheartedly agree with your general point, but the German language tweet seemed to contradict the tone of your first comment.

    The tweet by the Surgeon General should be understood as "don't panic-buy all the masks, the doctors and nurses need them more urgently than you".
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,462
    eristdoof said:

    https://twitter.com/metrolanderldn/status/1244636214621339651

    I'm sorry. What part of social distancing to this come under?

    Aren't they all photoshopped?
    Surely somebody would have done a better job?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,148
    Foxy said:

    Question for PB lawyers:

    I am rewriting my will (never a better time...)
    Is it better to leave it all to Mrs Foxy, or to Fox jr, with Mrs Foxy getting control until her demise, from the point of view of inheritance tax?

    Lawyer here. This kind of advice would be something no self respecting lawyer should give on a message board - for the recipient’s sake. Its a complex and specialist area and if things went wrong no one would be covered by the lawyer’s professional indemnity insurance. It’s a wise investment speaking to a STEP qualified solicitor on this. If they give the wrong advice you (or your offspring) are insured. Dodgy advice from those that are not insured ends up in court. A grand or two for a solicitor now will save tens of thousands for a barrister later. Find one that is a member of the Society of Estate Practitioners (STEP) as they have a rigorous quality threshold before they let anyone in.

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,723
    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:

    FF43 said:

    isam said:


    66% of Italy ‘at the same stage’

    Three cheers for the government?


    Yes, you right to keep posting that, because this 'we are a fortnight behind Italy' nonsense is everywhere. One of my mates was plastering its across social the other day – it's just garbage.
    I'm not keen on maintaining a death stats competition with other countries. On those numbers however we have moved during the past week from being 14 days behind Italy to being 15 days behind.
    Why are taking the 233 to be for the day announced, but today to be for yesterday?
    Because the UK changed its measurement period a few days ago. The stats released today are for yesterday.

    But they used to announce ‘as of 9am’ at about 6pm. So in effect they were the previous days numbers, they just announce them earlier now

    https://twitter.com/dhscgovuk/status/1241428067081433088?s=21
    It doesn't matter much but they now apply the cutoff for deaths to the day before while reporting case statistics for the same day. They previously reported both case and death statistics the same day.
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,897
    TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Deaths up by +180 to 1408 - DOH.

    2 days of reduction in a row.

    Those figures are encouraging. Fingers crossed.
    How many days before it's a trend ?

    Or is it a weekend effect ?
    I woud say, start taking it seriously after a drop 3 days in a row.

    A drop for one day is just randomness. 2 days is good but could still easily be just random chance. And remember up until Saturday the deaths have been on an exponential trajectory, so a drop 3 days in a row, would be reasonable evidence that the curve is no longer exponential.
  • Options
    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm with Lord Sumption and @isam and @Cyclefree on this.

    The pandemic needs a response and the government, via its SI, has given one, informed by the scientists.

    Sumption may not be an epidemiologist but then neither are Derbyshire police.

    It seems perfectly possible to be supportive of the police in their duties entirely, and also consider that not all police understand the extent of their duties and what the advice and law requires of them and us.
    Because the law passed is clear and the govt 'guidance' isn't, maybe the govt could just delete the guidance.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,012
    kamski said:

    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    BigRich said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nice to see Mr Neill trying to maintain some professional standards and some level of individual decency by having a deeper look into matters, reconsidering his views and correcting himself.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1244235433694973952?s=20

    Good for him.
    Is there still not some uncertainty over the percentage of mild/asymptomatic cases Germany's more widespread testing might have identified, though ?
    The genuine source of the difference would be extremely interesting to know, from a public health policy point of view. I look forward to the result of the inevitable scientific enquiry into this.

    One question I have - what tests is Germany using: All the lengthy, lab tests, or are they using the quick tests in combination (see South Korea)?
    So far as I know lab tests. Quick tests might be available somewhere in Germany, though I've not heard of it.

    There's lots of countries following exactly the same trajectory as Germany: lots of confirmed cases with at first very few deaths, followed by deaths slowly catching up. Which is exactly what you would expect if the testing is doing a reasonable job of tracking the epidemic, given that it takes an average of 20 days to die.

    The USA has done the opposite - a high initial death rate because no testing but now lower because a lot of testing. Maybe soon Germany and US will have same death rate.

    The way I see it, any country without this pattern of very low early death rate has probably failed to catch many of the early infections with testing, which probably does have public health policy implications.
    So where are they getting the enormous volumes (relatively) of reagents and lab time required?
    Lots of labs
    I suspect that I will get a lot of hate on here for saying this.

    But Germany has essentially a privet healthcare system. (with a lot of regulation and the government paying for insurance for the poor) but I suspect that as a result they were therefor more dynamic with the ability to rapidly expand testing.
    Yes, but that is similar in most European countries like Spain and Italy too. Also of course the USA, which was very slow to test.
    Not Spain - their NHS is similar to the UK. Though eyes and teeth are mostly private. It has a thriving private system mainly because it is quite cheap as salaries of doctors are quite a bit lower over here. Don;t know about Italy.
    Germany does not have a private health system.
    12% of Germans have private health insurance
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,955
    felix said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Amazing to see so-called libertarians in this thread suddenly in support of coppers arresting you for buying easter eggs.

    It's not a prinicple until it costs you something. Liberty, even in these times, still has value.

    No-one on here has said such a thing - notr has anyone been arrested. This is how fake news spreads.
    Then we can all agree that the police tweeting that easter eggs should not be bought is a) a waste of police time and b) an overreach of police powers?

    Good.
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