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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,495

    DavidL said:

    Peston is a joke 😂

    Not a very funny one.
    Peston is a very useful contra-indicator.
    Lets just hope he doesn't tweet Corona-virus is over in 3 weeks.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Question on schools - no answer.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    £330 billion? Fuck me.

    And we thought Brown was profligate...

    I didn't.

    But I trust that people who did think he was do not have the cheek to now laud this.

    Because they would look like partisan Tory softheads, wouldn't they?
    I think Brown was profligate because he blew the budget wide open before the recession.

    Nobody has ever (to my mind) criticised him for a deficit occuring during the recession. Its universally accepted that you spend what you need to during downtimes.

    Its the spending too much in the good times that Brown rightly gets criticised for.
    Because the government has been running a surplus since time immemorial? Give your head a wobble.

    Public finances were parlous before the government embarked on a spending spree. That's going to make the current measures still more painful in the longterm. The cost of this will outlive all of us.
    Since World War Two the deficit has had an economic cycle of expanding in bad times (and a bit afterwards typically) then coming back down before expanding again at the next recession.

    The exception was from 2002 onwards when the surplus was eliminated and deficit grew annually despite the economy growing healthily.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Didn't Laura K ask about that first up?
  • Stocky said:

    Fenster said:

    Sunak is a very impressive speaker, Speaks fast and cogently and doesn't miss a beat.

    If I spoke that fast my brain would never catch up and there'd be a swear word every three words.

    Sunak is a highly intelligent man. I wish all politicians were similarly so.
    Why is "Boris" callig him "Richie"? That sounds odd.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    edited March 2020
    Getting a bit frustrated with the chaos, delays and shortages at Waitrose, so I just wandered down the local co-op. There were a few shoppers with half filled baskets but the place was pretty empty. All shelves were full, they even had nine packs of soft toilet rolls, so I am now well stocked up. If only the Waitrose website was working I could delete the toilet paper I have ordered for delivery from them.

    If you are short of anything, find a co-op!

    New Supermarket coronavirus LIMITS:

    ASDA: 2 hand sanitisers and 4 pack toilet rolls

    TESCO: 1 hand sanitiser, 500g of rice and 4 pack toilet rolls

    WAITROSE: 1 lobster, 6 quails eggs and 100g Foie Gras

    ALDI: a MIG welder, a pink sports bra, 2 trumpets and 1 wetsuit
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2020
    tlg86 said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Didn't Laura K ask about that first up?
    I missed it if so, what was the answer? She asked about the loans etc being set up next week, what happens for people having issues this week.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    DavidL said:

    Peston is a joke 😂

    Not a very funny one.
    Peston is a very useful contra-indicator.
    Lets just hope he doesn't tweet Corona-virus is over in 3 weeks.
    It’s his duty to tweet, right now, that it will last for ten years, that vaccines will be unobtainable and that the world will cease to exist as a result.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited March 2020

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Yes. I do hope we are missing something otherwise it's unconscionable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Peston is a joke 😂

    Not a very funny one.
    Peston is a very useful contra-indicator.
    Lets just hope he doesn't tweet Corona-virus is over in 3 weeks.
    It’s his duty to tweet, right now, that it will last for ten years, that vaccines will be unobtainable and that the world will cease to exist as a result.
    English cricket fan principles ?
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited March 2020

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Peston is a joke 😂

    Not a very funny one.
    Peston is a very useful contra-indicator.
    Lets just hope he doesn't tweet Corona-virus is over in 3 weeks.
    It’s his duty to tweet, right now, that it will last for ten years, that vaccines will be unobtainable and that the world will cease to exist as a result.
    English cricket fan principles ?
    Absolutely! :smiley:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Stocky said:

    Fenster said:

    Sunak is a very impressive speaker, Speaks fast and cogently and doesn't miss a beat.

    If I spoke that fast my brain would never catch up and there'd be a swear word every three words.

    Sunak is a highly intelligent man. I wish all politicians were similarly so.
    Why is "Boris" callig him "Richie"? That sounds odd.
    Richie Rich ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Pagan2 said:

    Not really sure that helps the average paye employee in the least many business will like take the interest free loan and use it to keep the business going while reducing their work force to the minimum. Can't for example see many bar's keeping on barstaff during the interim. Loans should have been tied into safe guarding the workforce too.

    Yes, the self-employed and the gig economy will also need more measures, but it's a start.

    I'm hopeful that the mention of "employment support" might deal with this, and change the economic model for good - but let's see.
    Great also to hear a Tory Chancellor talking about working with the Unions to find the best way of protecting jobs. No side. Just working together. Very grown up.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    kinabalu said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Yes. I do hope we are missing something otherwise it's unconscionable.
    Presumably, the government has come to an agreement with mortgage lenders to defer mortgage payments, whereas it obviously cannot do similarly with landlords?
  • The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I had not heard that but some do think now is the best time to get a deal.

    We will see but you are obsessed as well from the EU side
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited March 2020

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    You lot need to get on an email campaign to Dominic Cummings, then. He probably still thinks you do.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited March 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Yes. I do hope we are missing something otherwise it's unconscionable.
    Sting in the tail on mortgage holidays? Doesn’t hit all landlords though.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Fenster said:

    Sunak is a very impressive speaker, Speaks fast and cogently and doesn't miss a beat.

    If I spoke that fast my brain would never catch up and there'd be a swear word every three words.

    Sunak is a highly intelligent man. I wish all politicians were similarly so.
    Why is "Boris" callig him "Richie"? That sounds odd.
    Richie Rich ?
    Wasn't he a scholarship kid?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    Point of order. As you lot took so much glee in telling us, a 'No Deal Brexit' was Dover becoming a car park, planes grounded etc. etc. - literally 'No Deal'. What 'may happen' now can justifiably be called 'Hard Brexit' or 'WTO Brexit', but not 'No Deal Brexit'. You'd get further if you didn't dispense with the truth at the drop of a hat trying gussy up your argument.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    kinabalu said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Yes. I do hope we are missing something otherwise it's unconscionable.
    It's not at all clear how much our leaders appreciate that a large percentage of the population lives from paycheque to paycheque.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    This is to our advantage deal-wise I think.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Center parcs are closing from Friday - they will continue to pay their staff
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    I think anybody who seeks to make points about Gordon brown 12 years ago in different circumstances should save their breath and concentrate on the here and now, similarly with brexit. All being well we will actually be in a position to return to normal discourse one day but let’s worry about today tomorrow and the impact on different parts of the world.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,640
    IanB2 said:

    Getting a bit frustrated with the chaos, delays and shortages at Waitrose, so I just wandered down the local co-op. There were a few shoppers with half filled baskets but the place was pretty empty. All shelves were full, they even had nine packs of soft toilet rolls, so I am now well stocked up. If only the Waitrose website was working I could delete the toilet paper I have ordered for delivery from them.

    If you are short of anything, find a co-op!

    New Supermarket coronavirus LIMITS:

    ASDA: 2 hand sanitisers and 4 pack toilet rolls

    TESCO: 1 hand sanitiser, 500g of rice and 4 pack toilet rolls

    WAITROSE: 1 lobster, 6 quails eggs and 100g Foie Gras

    ALDI: a MIG welder, a pink sports bra, 2 trumpets and 1 wetsuit

    I found that re the Coop too and other local shops
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270
    tlg86 said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Didn't Laura K ask about that first up?
    No she didn't. She asked what about companies who have to pay their workers now or people who have outgoings now but not specifically about renting.

    She also asked another of those utterly stupid and ill informed questions about whether the Chief Scientific Advisor regretted earlier decisions based on the scientific advise 'having changed' - which of course it hasn't
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited March 2020
    Italy

    345 deaths for a total of 2503
    192 healed for a total of 2941

    Currently infected 26062 (net increase of 2989....so 3526 new cases)
    including 2060 (+209 net increase) in ICU
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    spire2 said:

    The lockdown will not last as long as many anticipate. Once new cases start dropping theres going to be huge pressure on the government from business to relax restrictions.Also so many people are psychologically unable to survive lack of social contact and will start demanding reopening of bars, restaurants etc.

    I predict the very people agitating for `Lockdown Now' will -- after 6 weeks in a house with their cooped-up children -- be the ones agitating for `End to House Arrest'.
    I live in a beautiful and very quiet part of Spain. After just 3 days I'm aching for the lockdown to end and am generally law-abiding and compliant. Believe me I am used to things being very quiet and staying in - but this is awful.
    Something far wrong with you if you cannot amuse yourself for 3 days.
    Malc - underneath the bluster I think you're ok -but understand please the impact of compulsion. It's like the joy of retirement is all about the freedom of choice it brings rather than what you do or don't do. I stay in a lot through choice. Knowing if I go out now I can be stopped and sent home again is bloody hard.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    edited March 2020
    My dad's just raised an interesting point. Does this relief cover charities as well as businesses (apologies if Sunak said so earlier)?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    Not really sure that helps the average paye employee in the least many business will like take the interest free loan and use it to keep the business going while reducing their work force to the minimum. Can't for example see many bar's keeping on barstaff during the interim. Loans should have been tied into safe guarding the workforce too.

    Yes, the self-employed and the gig economy will also need more measures, but it's a start.

    I'm hopeful that the mention of "employment support" might deal with this, and change the economic model for good - but let's see.
    Maybe but I suspect a lot of paye types and gig workers are going to be looking at that and thinking not much help for us there. Especially those renting. I will believe they are going to protect us when they actually spell it out. I hope to be proved wrong. Not that this will affect me particularly but it is already affecting friends
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited March 2020
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Yes. I do hope we are missing something otherwise it's unconscionable.
    It's not at all clear how much our leaders appreciate that a large percentage of the population lives from paycheque to paycheque.
    I'm fascinated that the Trump administration has already moved to the language of mailing out cheques to individual Americans. This is a good start from the government today, but there definitely needs to more on what's individually focused beyond just businesses.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    Of course its all about Brexit as if we didn't know.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270

    Italy

    345 deaths for a total of 2503
    192 healed for a total of 2941

    Currently infected 26062 (net increase of 2989....so 3526 new cases)
    including 2060 (+209) in ICU

    I keep hoping each day will be the day when we see this peak out after the lockdown but it isn't there yet :(
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited March 2020
    nichomar said:

    I think anybody who seeks to make points about Gordon brown 12 years ago in different circumstances should save their breath and concentrate on the here and now, similarly with brexit. All being well we will actually be in a position to return to normal discourse one day but let’s worry about today tomorrow and the impact on different parts of the world.

    I was guilty of slamming Brown 12 years ago. Not because I'm particularly tribal but because I didn't like the dirty way Brown screwed over Blair. Looking back I let my dislike of him skew my judgement of his actions and that's pretty pathetic. I've grown up a tiny bit now.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,846

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Yes. I do hope we are missing something otherwise it's unconscionable.
    It's not at all clear how much our leaders appreciate that a large percentage of the population lives from paycheque to paycheque.
    I'm fascinated that the Trump administration has already moved to the language of mailing out cheques to individuals. This is a good start from the government today, but there definitely needs to more on what's individually focused beyond just businesses.
    Sounds as though the individual stuff is coming tomorrow? They mentioned discussions with others including the unions.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,556
    I bet FlyBe are pissed off right now.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    The key thing is that this is only the start. No previously viable business should go under because of cashflow issues, and individual incomes must still allow them to meet their household costs. These are the bottom lines. And the transition has to be extended.
  • RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Yes. I do hope we are missing something otherwise it's unconscionable.
    It's not at all clear how much our leaders appreciate that a large percentage of the population lives from paycheque to paycheque.
    I'm fascinated that the Trump administration has already moved to the language of mailing out cheques to individuals. This is a good start from the government today, but there definitely needs to more on what's individually focused beyond just businesses.
    Sounds as though the individual stuff is coming tomorrow? They mentioned discussions with others including the unions.
    Hope so.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    Alright, not “none” bit almost none. The point still stands though - at the start of the first year of a new Gvt, with the biggest emergency of recent years, why does anyone in Number 10 think it matters?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    Give it a rest
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited March 2020

    Labour's mess was blowing the budget wide open before the crisis.

    Deficit is about the same then as now. Debt much lower. NHS in better health.

    We enter this crisis in much worse shape. Such is undeniable.

    If that was Labour's Mess, this is a bigger Tory one.

    Works both ways. Sorry.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,846
    Jonathan said:

    I bet FlyBe are pissed off right now.

    I thought the same.
  • JM1 said:

    Italy

    345 deaths for a total of 2503
    192 healed for a total of 2941

    Currently infected 26062 (net increase of 2989....so 3526 new cases)
    including 2060 (+209) in ICU

    Thanks Andrea. Number of new cases is not rising, which is good news. Fingers crossed the lockdown (which started 7-8 days ago) should show a decline in new cases in the next few days.
    Stable, but grim, in Italy. Hope the situation gets better for them soon.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,640
    kinabalu said:

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Like Osborne and Cameron did when branding the impact on public finances of the emergency measures to combat the Global Financial Crash as "Labour's Mess"?
    Indeed fallout from Global Financial Crisis Labours fault.

    Global virus financial fallout everyone else except the Tories fault
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    tlg86 said:

    Can tell no journalists rent, nobody has asked the question we picked up on about rent v mortgage.

    Didn't Laura K ask about that first up?
    No she didn't. She asked what about companies who have to pay their workers now or people who have outgoings now but not specifically about renting.

    She also asked another of those utterly stupid and ill informed questions about whether the Chief Scientific Advisor regretted earlier decisions based on the scientific advise 'having changed' - which of course it hasn't
    There’s a clear answer to that; John Maynard Keynes applies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited March 2020
    Gabs3 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    Fenster said:

    Sunak is a very impressive speaker, Speaks fast and cogently and doesn't miss a beat.

    If I spoke that fast my brain would never catch up and there'd be a swear word every three words.

    Sunak is a highly intelligent man. I wish all politicians were similarly so.
    Why is "Boris" callig him "Richie"? That sounds odd.
    Richie Rich ?
    Wasn't he a scholarship kid?
    Father in law is a billionaire.

    (His, not mine.)
  • The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    On today of all days you continue your rant on brexit when no one is listening

    Far bigger things worry the country now
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,846

    kinabalu said:

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Like Osborne and Cameron did when branding the impact on public finances of the emergency measures to combat the Global Financial Crash as "Labour's Mess"?
    Indeed fallout from Global Financial Crisis Labours fault.

    Global virus financial fallout everyone else except the Tories fault
    Bit early to be scoring party political point, isn't it? ;)
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited March 2020
    tlg86 said:

    My dad's just raised an interesting point. Does this relief cover charities as well as businesses (apologies if Sunak said so earlier)?

    Edit - Most (originally all) charities are incorporated as businesses too. A lot of trustees don’t know it, but they are company directors.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    spire2 said:

    The lockdown will not last as long as many anticipate. Once new cases start dropping theres going to be huge pressure on the government from business to relax restrictions.Also so many people are psychologically unable to survive lack of social contact and will start demanding reopening of bars, restaurants etc.

    I predict the very people agitating for `Lockdown Now' will -- after 6 weeks in a house with their cooped-up children -- be the ones agitating for `End to House Arrest'.
    I live in a beautiful and very quiet part of Spain. After just 3 days I'm aching for the lockdown to end and am generally law-abiding and compliant. Believe me I am used to things being very quiet and staying in - but this is awful.
    Something far wrong with you if you cannot amuse yourself for 3 days.
    To be fair I think it is a well recognised psychological phenomena. Tell someone they can stay inside for 5 days and they will have no problem with it. Tell them they must stay inside for 5 days and before the first day is out they are going up the wall.
    You put it much more clearly than I did. Probably because of the trauma of being 'under orders' :)
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    Don`t you agree that the EU falling as a result is a good thing for the UK? I was a reluctant remainer - believing we should stay in but hoping that the whole thing crumbled eventually.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270

    IanB2 said:

    Getting a bit frustrated with the chaos, delays and shortages at Waitrose, so I just wandered down the local co-op. There were a few shoppers with half filled baskets but the place was pretty empty. All shelves were full, they even had nine packs of soft toilet rolls, so I am now well stocked up. If only the Waitrose website was working I could delete the toilet paper I have ordered for delivery from them.

    If you are short of anything, find a co-op!

    New Supermarket coronavirus LIMITS:

    ASDA: 2 hand sanitisers and 4 pack toilet rolls

    TESCO: 1 hand sanitiser, 500g of rice and 4 pack toilet rolls

    WAITROSE: 1 lobster, 6 quails eggs and 100g Foie Gras

    ALDI: a MIG welder, a pink sports bra, 2 trumpets and 1 wetsuit

    I found that re the Coop too and other local shops
    A friend of mine went into Sainsburys mid morning just as the last of the shoppers were leaving with their trollies full of loo roll from the morning delivery.

    Anyway, he was chatting with one of the checkout lads who said they have warehouses full of stuff. They are short of nothing except hand sanitiser. But no matter how often they tell the shoppers this, every morning when the lorry turns up with the days resupply it is stripped bare by hoarders. Ridiculous.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited March 2020
    Given that neither the Department of Health, nor their EU counterparts are (to my knowledge) negotiating Brexit, can anyone actually give a good reason for extending the transition period, other than the fact that they really really really don't want Brexit, and this has given them a glimmer of hope that its accomplishment might be staved off again? I mean really.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    On today of all days you continue your rant on brexit when no one is listening

    Far bigger things worry the country now
    And yet the government remains hell bent on its self-imposed deadline as of today, threatening the country with yet more disruption. Perhaps you could admit (through gritted teeth if you must) that the lunatics that you support have got wickedly wrong priorities just now.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,673
    Free school meals:

    Boris: "we'd certainly anticipated that"

    Yes, you just know for certain Boris had thought of that - LOL!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,846

    Given that neither the Department of Health, nor their EU counterparts are (to my knowledge) negotiating Brexit, can anyone actually give a good reason for extending the transition period, other than the fact that they don't want Brexit, and this has given them a glimmer of hope that its accomplishment might be staved off again? I mean really.

    I read that a lot of civil servants who were working on no deal planning have been moved to coronavirus response duties. The focus of a large fraction of the government is now on the response to this, not negotiating with the EU.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Floater said:

    Center parcs are closing from Friday - they will continue to pay their staff

    Good and that is exactly the sort of thing that the government should help with if required.
  • AlanSAlanS Posts: 9

    IanB2 said:

    Getting a bit frustrated with the chaos, delays and shortages at Waitrose, so I just wandered down the local co-op. There were a few shoppers with half filled baskets but the place was pretty empty. All shelves were full, they even had nine packs of soft toilet rolls, so I am now well stocked up. If only the Waitrose website was working I could delete the toilet paper I have ordered for delivery from them.

    If you are short of anything, find a co-op!

    New Supermarket coronavirus LIMITS:

    ASDA: 2 hand sanitisers and 4 pack toilet rolls

    TESCO: 1 hand sanitiser, 500g of rice and 4 pack toilet rolls

    WAITROSE: 1 lobster, 6 quails eggs and 100g Foie Gras

    ALDI: a MIG welder, a pink sports bra, 2 trumpets and 1 wetsuit

    I found that re the Coop too and other local shops
    A friend of mine went into Sainsburys mid morning just as the last of the shoppers were leaving with their trollies full of loo roll from the morning delivery.

    Anyway, he was chatting with one of the checkout lads who said they have warehouses full of stuff. They are short of nothing except hand sanitiser. But no matter how often they tell the shoppers this, every morning when the lorry turns up with the days resupply it is stripped bare by hoarders. Ridiculous.
    Crazy. I mean hand sanitizer consumption has risen, but no-one’s using more loo roll. Must just be building up in people’s homes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    MikeL said:

    Free school meals:

    Boris: "we'd certainly anticipated that"

    Yes, you just know for certain Boris had thought of that - LOL!

    A veritable Churchill...
    "Of course people care about pubs, they are right to care about pubs, that is why we are announcing the extraordinary package."
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Stocky said:

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    Don`t you agree that the EU falling as a result is a good thing for the UK? I was a reluctant remainer - believing we should stay in but hoping that the whole thing crumbled eventually.
    I'm not a fan of the EU (mainly because it's elitist and undemocratic) but I wouldn't want it to fail because Russia is a far far far bigger threat to liberte and egalite!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,495
    edited March 2020
    Can I just say, Robert Peston, you massive bell-end.

    1000s of people are dying, there is a killer disease spreading the world, the world economy is on the brink and the public need a clear concise set of messages.

    And this total f##king tw@t stands up and wastes oxygen with a stupid jibey question about Stanley Johnson going down the pub.

    When will they learn, this isn't a drill, this isn't a game, this is war.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Floater said:

    Because Brown faced a similar disaster from 2001 onwards ?.... oh wait

    Oh so "cleaning up Labour's mess" only related to the pre-Crash public finances, did it?

    Odd how the Tory message never made that clear.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited March 2020
    This thread has

    done a passable impression of Robert Peston

    Edit - sorry, fake news. It’s a phantom thread!

    Edit of an edit - that makes it an even BETTER impression of Peston, of course...
  • Sky business just said that the support package is similar to France
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    ydoethur said:

    This thread has

    done a passable impression of Robert Peston

    It was better than that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    MaxPB said:

    We need action for people who rent. Landlords are about to get mortgage relief and their tenants won't get anything.

    Yes. Relief for mortgages but not rent would be Class War.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    On today of all days you continue your rant on brexit when no one is listening

    Far bigger things worry the country now
    And yet the government remains hell bent on its self-imposed deadline as of today, threatening the country with yet more disruption. Perhaps you could admit (through gritted teeth if you must) that the lunatics that you support have got wickedly wrong priorities just now.
    What is the benefit of announcing it today?

    All I can see is it would get Farage and the extreme wing of Brexiteers foaming at the mouth for no benefit.

    Far better that you keep them focused on the stuff that matters.

    The reality is it will get punted, but at a late point in time when things calm down
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    tlg86 said:

    My dad's just raised an interesting point. Does this relief cover charities as well as businesses (apologies if Sunak said so earlier)?

    I don't see why it wouldn't, albeit that charities already benefit from (normally) 80% off their rates, so it's less of a cash flow cost to begin with.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,846
    edited March 2020
    ydoethur said:

    This thread has

    done a passable impression of Robert Peston

    Edit - sorry, fake news. It’s a phantom thread!
    Fake news? :o

    So it has done a Peston.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    TOPPING said:

    The sun is not shining now.

    It certainly isn't!

    In 2007-08 budget deficit was 3% of GDP. We had a well funded, well functioning NHS, falling child poverty, little street homelessness etc.

    Now deficit is 2%. UK economy and society is *far* less prepared for this crisis.

    Osborne/Cameron tore down the roof before the storm

    — Jonathan Portes (@jdportes) March 17, 2020
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    We need action for people who rent. Landlords are about to get mortgage relief and their tenants won't get anything.

    Yes. Relief for mortgages but not rent would be Class War.
    What, that thing you champion all the time?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270
    AlanS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Getting a bit frustrated with the chaos, delays and shortages at Waitrose, so I just wandered down the local co-op. There were a few shoppers with half filled baskets but the place was pretty empty. All shelves were full, they even had nine packs of soft toilet rolls, so I am now well stocked up. If only the Waitrose website was working I could delete the toilet paper I have ordered for delivery from them.

    If you are short of anything, find a co-op!

    New Supermarket coronavirus LIMITS:

    ASDA: 2 hand sanitisers and 4 pack toilet rolls

    TESCO: 1 hand sanitiser, 500g of rice and 4 pack toilet rolls

    WAITROSE: 1 lobster, 6 quails eggs and 100g Foie Gras

    ALDI: a MIG welder, a pink sports bra, 2 trumpets and 1 wetsuit

    I found that re the Coop too and other local shops
    A friend of mine went into Sainsburys mid morning just as the last of the shoppers were leaving with their trollies full of loo roll from the morning delivery.

    Anyway, he was chatting with one of the checkout lads who said they have warehouses full of stuff. They are short of nothing except hand sanitiser. But no matter how often they tell the shoppers this, every morning when the lorry turns up with the days resupply it is stripped bare by hoarders. Ridiculous.
    Crazy. I mean hand sanitizer consumption has risen, but no-one’s using more loo roll. Must just be building up in people’s homes.
    There is a lot of profiteering going on. A local councillor tweeted a couple of days ago that one shop in Sutton in Ashfield was known to be buying up huge amounts from the local supermarket and then selling it at a vastly inflated price. And people were buying it. He warned the shop to stop or he would be named and shamed. Not seen anything since so don't know what the outcome was.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,017
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    For some reason, a thread header popped up from December 2018 popped up, and somebody (naming no names) commented on it.

    Apparently, Theresa May is safe, for now.
  • The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    On today of all days you continue your rant on brexit when no one is listening

    Far bigger things worry the country now
    And yet the government remains hell bent on its self-imposed deadline as of today, threatening the country with yet more disruption. Perhaps you could admit (through gritted teeth if you must) that the lunatics that you support have got wickedly wrong priorities just now.
    I will not bow to your obsession
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,846
    ydoethur said:

    For some reason, a thread header popped up from December 2018 popped up, and somebody (naming no names) commented on it.

    Apparently, Theresa May is safe, for now.

    Simpler times.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    Brown did exactly the right thing in 2008 and undoubtedly played a central role in saving the global economy. If people want to quibble around that, so be it. It happened. It was good. And we are able to face today's crisis with some hope of getting through it as a result. The government today has also shown that it understands the scale of the challenge. We need to see more detail, obviously, but the direction of travel is the right one. That is to be welcomed unequivocally. The transition will clearly have to be extended. But that does not have to happen today. There is a little bit of time to find the right form of words. What we have to hope is that post-crisis, all those who have lived through the politics and economics of it will be a little more grown-up than they were previously. That way we will get to a place and a final Brexit deal that works for everyone. One thing we are not going to have to worry about for a long while, after all, is immigration.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    We need action for people who rent. Landlords are about to get mortgage relief and their tenants won't get anything.

    Yes. Relief for mortgages but not rent would be Class War.
    Relief for rent is slightly more awkward - a mortgage gets extended 3 months and most people wouldn't notice - 3 months of no rent is far harder to handle, especially as I don't see why landlords should be paid off..
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    RobD said:

    Given that neither the Department of Health, nor their EU counterparts are (to my knowledge) negotiating Brexit, can anyone actually give a good reason for extending the transition period, other than the fact that they don't want Brexit, and this has given them a glimmer of hope that its accomplishment might be staved off again? I mean really.

    I read that a lot of civil servants who were working on no deal planning have been moved to coronavirus response duties. The focus of a large fraction of the government is now on the response to this, not negotiating with the EU.
    I would be surprised if our negotiating team had departed off to fend off the virus?

    We've told them clearly what we want. They've told us clearly what they want. Let's get that bloody deal.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    On today of all days you continue your rant on brexit when no one is listening

    Far bigger things worry the country now
    And yet the government remains hell bent on its self-imposed deadline as of today, threatening the country with yet more disruption. Perhaps you could admit (through gritted teeth if you must) that the lunatics that you support have got wickedly wrong priorities just now.
    I will not bow to your obsession
    It's the government's obsession. Their deadline. Their threatened chaos. And you cheerlead for it.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593

    Given that neither the Department of Health, nor their EU counterparts are (to my knowledge) negotiating Brexit, can anyone actually give a good reason for extending the transition period, other than the fact that they really really really don't want Brexit, and this has given them a glimmer of hope that its accomplishment might be staved off again? I mean really.

    Brexit has happened. It is bizarre that there are still people who fail to understand this.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,576

    IanB2 said:

    Getting a bit frustrated with the chaos, delays and shortages at Waitrose, so I just wandered down the local co-op. There were a few shoppers with half filled baskets but the place was pretty empty. All shelves were full, they even had nine packs of soft toilet rolls, so I am now well stocked up. If only the Waitrose website was working I could delete the toilet paper I have ordered for delivery from them.

    If you are short of anything, find a co-op!

    New Supermarket coronavirus LIMITS:

    ASDA: 2 hand sanitisers and 4 pack toilet rolls

    TESCO: 1 hand sanitiser, 500g of rice and 4 pack toilet rolls

    WAITROSE: 1 lobster, 6 quails eggs and 100g Foie Gras

    ALDI: a MIG welder, a pink sports bra, 2 trumpets and 1 wetsuit

    I found that re the Coop too and other local shops
    A friend of mine went into Sainsburys mid morning just as the last of the shoppers were leaving with their trollies full of loo roll from the morning delivery.

    Anyway, he was chatting with one of the checkout lads who said they have warehouses full of stuff. They are short of nothing except hand sanitiser. But no matter how often they tell the shoppers this, every morning when the lorry turns up with the days resupply it is stripped bare by hoarders. Ridiculous.
    It is what you'd expect, of course, given the usage rate of hand sanitiser has rocketed but for toilet rolls it is just the purchase rate. I've not stockpiled toilet paper and am becoming conscious that I will need to buy some in three weeks or so. There was a story earlier in the week that LVMH will turn over its perfume factories to make sanitiser for France. You'd hope the government could find a British distiller or perfumer to do the same here.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,846
    edited March 2020

    RobD said:

    Given that neither the Department of Health, nor their EU counterparts are (to my knowledge) negotiating Brexit, can anyone actually give a good reason for extending the transition period, other than the fact that they don't want Brexit, and this has given them a glimmer of hope that its accomplishment might be staved off again? I mean really.

    I read that a lot of civil servants who were working on no deal planning have been moved to coronavirus response duties. The focus of a large fraction of the government is now on the response to this, not negotiating with the EU.
    I would be surprised if our negotiating team had departed off to fend off the virus?

    We've told them clearly what we want. They've told us clearly what they want. Let's get that bloody deal.
    It's more than the couple of people on the negotiating team. There's a whole army of civil servants who were working on various issues relating to Brexit. They are now not working on that, and instead are working on the coronavirus response.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-coronavirus-eu-trade-deal-talks-dominic-raab-a9407231.html

    In London, civil servants who had been working on no deal preparations are being redeployed into trying to cope with the escalating crisis.
  • DAlexanderDAlexander Posts: 815
    If I'd registered as a business and paid less tax I might get some help, but as I stayed self employed and paid more it looks like I'll get nothing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Given that neither the Department of Health, nor their EU counterparts are (to my knowledge) negotiating Brexit, can anyone actually give a good reason for extending the transition period, other than the fact that they really really really don't want Brexit, and this has given them a glimmer of hope that its accomplishment might be staved off again? I mean really.

    Brexit has happened. It is bizarre that there are still people who fail to understand this.

    I quite agree.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,270

    Given that neither the Department of Health, nor their EU counterparts are (to my knowledge) negotiating Brexit, can anyone actually give a good reason for extending the transition period, other than the fact that they really really really don't want Brexit, and this has given them a glimmer of hope that its accomplishment might be staved off again? I mean really.

    Because this involves a very aspect of Government on both sides of the Channel, not just the Departments of Health. Off the top of my head I have seen announcements and briefings from Education, Health, Foreign Office, Trade and Industry, Transport, Defence, Local Authorities, Business, Housing and Communities, Agriculture and loads more.

    We have left the EU. We are not going back. If we have to postpone the transition period for a year then that is a bit more money we have to pay but in the grand scheme of things it is nothing.

    Deal with this first and then afterwards we can get on with finishing the negotiations when everyone has a bit more time and might hopefully be a bit more friendly to each other.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    kinabalu said:

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Like Osborne and Cameron did when branding the impact on public finances of the emergency measures to combat the Global Financial Crash as "Labour's Mess"?
    Labour's mess was blowing the budget wide open before the crisis.
    Cameron and Osborne committed to matching Labour spending pre financial crisis.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,846

    If I'd registered as a business and paid less tax I might get some help, but as I stayed self employed and paid more it looks like I'll get nothing.

    The package for the individual is coming. At least that's the impression I got.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,183
    edited March 2020

    JM1 said:

    Italy

    345 deaths for a total of 2503
    192 healed for a total of 2941

    Currently infected 26062 (net increase of 2989....so 3526 new cases)
    including 2060 (+209) in ICU

    Thanks Andrea. Number of new cases is not rising, which is good news. Fingers crossed the lockdown (which started 7-8 days ago) should show a decline in new cases in the next few days.
    Stable, but grim, in Italy. Hope the situation gets better for them soon.

    ...... blockquote snafu .....

    I hate to sound cynical, but whether we're talking about Italy, Iran, China, USA or the UK, the daily headline number of new cases simply reflects the scale of testing and the identity of the subjects. I've yet to see a randomised population sample tested anywhere. So we speculate about icebergs instead.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Mango said:
    Planet Bendtheknee....
  • The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    On today of all days you continue your rant on brexit when no one is listening

    Far bigger things worry the country now
    And yet the government remains hell bent on its self-imposed deadline as of today, threatening the country with yet more disruption. Perhaps you could admit (through gritted teeth if you must) that the lunatics that you support have got wickedly wrong priorities just now.
    I will not bow to your obsession
    It's the government's obsession. Their deadline. Their threatened chaos. And you cheerlead for it.
    Give it a rest Alastair.

    I have said on several occassions the transistion period should be extended and I have little interest in brexit just now.

    Anyway we have left so sometime in the future a deal will have to be done - we are not re-joining
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Given that neither the Department of Health, nor their EU counterparts are (to my knowledge) negotiating Brexit, can anyone actually give a good reason for extending the transition period, other than the fact that they really really really don't want Brexit, and this has given them a glimmer of hope that its accomplishment might be staved off again? I mean really.

    Because this involves a very aspect of Government on both sides of the Channel, not just the Departments of Health. Off the top of my head I have seen announcements and briefings from Education, Health, Foreign Office, Trade and Industry, Transport, Defence, Local Authorities, Business, Housing and Communities, Agriculture and loads more.

    We have left the EU. We are not going back. If we have to postpone the transition period for a year then that is a bit more money we have to pay but in the grand scheme of things it is nothing.

    Deal with this first and then afterwards we can get on with finishing the negotiations when everyone has a bit more time and might hopefully be a bit more friendly to each other.
    I have not heard that the negotiating teams are being unfriendly - certainly there's no reason to do so, either now or later.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,932

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JM1 said:

    Why do you think it will be as high as 80K deaths? Say we have 20K deaths this wave (high end) I'm curious as to where the 80K comes from...

    I'm being cautious.

    It's weird this board.

    Yesterday evening, I was arguing with @WhisperingOracle and @eadric about whether this was going to be as bad as the World Wars (only with the million plus deaths all the deaths being in one year).

    Now we're talking about perhaps 20,000 deaths - or a rather bad flu season.
    And the world economy spaffed up the wall finally and forever.
    Is it completely beyond the realm of imagination that every country could get together after the crisis and say 'Whatever your national debt is, cut the last two zeroes off it and pretend it never happened'?
    The money that is owed by governments to central banks will never be paid back. So, UK debt to GDP is 60%, not 90%.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,364

    The support package is vast and I hope those opponents who keep attacking HMG finally accept that we must unify over this national crisis

    Tell your party leader to stop dangling no deal Brexit over the country's heads as a weapon and you might be heeded.
    I do not think Brexit is even in the mix at this time.

    We have left and an agreement with the EU may have to be delayed but we will not rejoin
    Only today the government reaffirmed that it is hellbent on ending the transition period on 31 December, with or without a deal. They're obsessed.
    I really don’t understand why. It’s astonishing. None of us leaver voters surely would care if it was delayed. This is the ultimate black swan.
    That's not true. There are shoals of maniacal Leavers who have spent half of this crisis finding new and innovative ways to criticise the EU for its handling of it or to fantasise about how the EU is going to fall as a result. This is all of a piece with their pathological hatred of it.
    On today of all days you continue your rant on brexit when no one is listening

    Far bigger things worry the country now
    And yet the government remains hell bent on its self-imposed deadline as of today, threatening the country with yet more disruption. Perhaps you could admit (through gritted teeth if you must) that the lunatics that you support have got wickedly wrong priorities just now.
    I will not bow to your obsession
    It's the government's obsession. Their deadline. Their threatened chaos. And you cheerlead for it.
    It's the reason Boris got a huge majority.

    And it's the law.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Another +13% in Italy. Definitely dropping.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    We need action for people who rent. Landlords are about to get mortgage relief and their tenants won't get anything.

    Yes. Relief for mortgages but not rent would be Class War.
    Relief for rent is slightly more awkward - a mortgage gets extended 3 months and most people wouldn't notice - 3 months of no rent is far harder to handle, especially as I don't see why landlords should be paid off..
    I agree, a loan to tenants is the only way as far as I can see.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    IanB2 said:

    Getting a bit frustrated with the chaos, delays and shortages at Waitrose, so I just wandered down the local co-op. There were a few shoppers with half filled baskets but the place was pretty empty. All shelves were full, they even had nine packs of soft toilet rolls, so I am now well stocked up. If only the Waitrose website was working I could delete the toilet paper I have ordered for delivery from them.

    If you are short of anything, find a co-op!

    New Supermarket coronavirus LIMITS:

    ASDA: 2 hand sanitisers and 4 pack toilet rolls

    TESCO: 1 hand sanitiser, 500g of rice and 4 pack toilet rolls

    WAITROSE: 1 lobster, 6 quails eggs and 100g Foie Gras

    ALDI: a MIG welder, a pink sports bra, 2 trumpets and 1 wetsuit

    I found that re the Coop too and other local shops
    A friend of mine went into Sainsburys mid morning just as the last of the shoppers were leaving with their trollies full of loo roll from the morning delivery.

    Anyway, he was chatting with one of the checkout lads who said they have warehouses full of stuff. They are short of nothing except hand sanitiser. But no matter how often they tell the shoppers this, every morning when the lorry turns up with the days resupply it is stripped bare by hoarders. Ridiculous.
    It is what you'd expect, of course, given the usage rate of hand sanitiser has rocketed but for toilet rolls it is just the purchase rate. I've not stockpiled toilet paper and am becoming conscious that I will need to buy some in three weeks or so. There was a story earlier in the week that LVMH will turn over its perfume factories to make sanitiser for France. You'd hope the government could find a British distiller or perfumer to do the same here.
    The problem is the supply of the basic ingredients, IIRC. The gel itself can be mixed in a bathtub - no chemistry involved.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Laura Kuennsberg is reading PB. Or Labour is, perhaps.
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