Fucking hell. There are no Sainbury's deliveries in my area available at all. For the three week window they allow.
I am housebound due to caring responsibilities.
Selfish bastards who are fit and well are taking up slots needed by vulnerable.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I just got back from the giant Sainsbury's in Camden people have gone completely insane. I just needed to get a few things now that I'm back in the country, there were idiots buying 10 packs of loo roll and 20 bags of pasta etc...
I can't understand why the supermarkets are letting people buy that many items. They should be limiting toilet rolls to 2 per person etc.
If people can't control themselves then it's up to the sellers to limit what people can buy.
Money is money. The supermarkets hear the sound of tills going "Kerr-ching". What's not to like?
Well they'll still go Kerr-ching" anyway it's just that the goods will be spread out more evenly.
I'm not convinced. Many seem to be buying more stuff than they will need in a lifetime. I mean kids will be paying inheritance tax on toilet rolls and rice.
How much of this stuff is being put on ebay at double the price?
Just led the Monday morning team meeting. About 30 of us, all now WFH.
Someone noted the “govt and WHO don’t seem to agree”. General confusion about what the government’s policy is and what’s happening next.
Govt comms have failed so far.
Not sure it has failed. It’s just there are lots of shouty voices out there trying to drown out government’s communications. They’ve definitely had a bad weekend. Sounds like Cummings stirring and damaging what is in essence a good well thought through, counter intuitive but well explained strategy.
The rabble rousers are out there though. People like John Ashton. Utterly shocking. But the 24k cranks like home are easy to spot. Allowing an alistair Campbell style assault on the truth by picking up a throwaway flaw in the argument as opened the gates to the sewers.
The herd immunity is an aspirational outcome in the long term. It’s not the purpose of the current policy. Flatten the curve is. Stop the nhs been overwhelmed at the peak points, invoke isolation when they will have maximum impact and remember that people will not keep to them for prolonged periods.
We will see what Kier Starmer is made of with his response to this. So far more mature politicians like Burnham have stuck with but expressed caution.
I am coming round to the idea that UK - EU transition should be extended for at least another 12 months and at that time a very different EU could be in the making. It does not make sense to no deal in this crisis.
Why are you hanging on this notion that the Coronavirus crisis will somehow lead to the end of the EU as we know it? Is there the slightest shred of evidence that its member states are demanding anything of the kind?
Leavers always seem to be looking for some scenario where the EU collapses. The fact that a crisis like this might make people consider the benefits of greater co-operation through international organisations doesn't seem to occur to them.
Yes, imagine what Italy would be like without the ECB as a buyer of last resort for government bonds.
Fucking hell. There are no Sainbury's deliveries in my area available at all. For the three week window they allow.
I am housebound due to caring responsibilities.
Selfish bastards who are fit and well are taking up slots needed by vulnerable.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I just got back from the giant Sainsbury's in Camden people have gone completely insane. I just needed to get a few things now that I'm back in the country, there were idiots buying 10 packs of loo roll and 20 bags of pasta etc...
I can't understand why the supermarkets are letting people buy that many items. They should be limiting toilet rolls to 2 per person etc.
If people can't control themselves then it's up to the sellers to limit what people can buy.
Money is money. The supermarkets hear the sound of tills going "Kerr-ching". What's not to like?
Well they'll still go Kerr-ching" anyway it's just that the goods will be spread out more evenly.
I'm not convinced. Many seem to be buying more stuff than they will need in a lifetime. I mean kids will be paying inheritance tax on toilet rolls and rice.
How much of this stuff is being put on ebay at double the price?
Just led the Monday morning team meeting. About 30 of us, all now WFH.
Someone noted the “govt and WHO don’t seem to agree”. General confusion about what the government’s policy is and what’s happening next.
Govt comms have failed so far.
Not sure it has failed. It’s just there are lots of shouty voices out there trying to drown out government’s communications. They’ve definitely had a bad weekend. Sounds like Cummings stirring and damaging what is in essence a good well thought through, counter intuitive but well explained strategy.
The rabble rousers are out there though. People like John Ashton. Utterly shocking. But the 24k cranks like home are easy to spot. Allowing an alistair Campbell style assault on the truth by picking up a throwaway flaw in the argument as opened the gates to the sewers.
The herd immunity is an aspirational outcome in the long term. It’s not the purpose of the current policy. Flatten the curve is. Stop the nhs been overwhelmed at the peak points, invoke isolation when they will have maximum impact and remember that people will not keep to them for prolonged periods.
We will see what Kier Starmer is made of with his response to this. So far more mature politicians like Burnham have stuck with but expressed caution.
There are a lot of opposition MPs who have shown their quality here and I include Sturgeon in Scotland. Adonis has also been very measured whilst pointing up possible improvements.
I suspect this will be my only post before I get banned again (please dont) . I just thought I would give an update on two hospitals in Hampshire where my wife and daughter are nurses. They are as quiet as they have ever been. There are hundreds of empty beds. As an example my daughter looks after 12 beds on her ward, yesterday 8 of them were empty. She said that walking round the hospital it is eerie how quiet it is. These are two major hospitals and neither has a Covid 19 patient.
I am not surprised at that. I see this period as the 1940 phoney war. The calm before the storm.
Also, given the experience in places like Italy and China, it seems entirely possible that there will be some areas which, through luck or judgement, will escape relatively unscathed.
By the way I hope you are not banned. Useful first post.
People are not going to A & E so no beds taking up that way. All GP appts are being cancelled so no referrals. Most people with Covid 19 are just staying at home and getting better.
I would suggest that people look up the Swine Flu epidemic in the UK in 2009 on wikipedia. There were regulalrly over 60,000 reported cases in the UK per week and hundreds of deaths yet the world carried on.
I was at our A & E and out of hours doctors on Saturday night between 12 and 1.00 am and it seemed very quiet and I was seen by the doctor within half an hour
And neither the public or the professionals were wearing face masks other than a child and his parents in the out of hours doctors
Medics know that many people avoid doctors at all costs except when essential, a minority of folks are permanent doctor botherers and a small number need a lot of care. This is sorting out the groups.
As politicians wander the deserted streets of their cities, and the demands for handouts from beleaguered industries grow, perhaps they are starting to consider the gargantuan hit to economic activity that their policies are causing.
I read today BA are considering cancelling 75% of flights. That doesnt suggest recession. That suggest depression. an enormous one. Worse than 1930/31. Maybe much worse.
Is it worth it? is the cure causing more damage than the disease? How will governments be able to care for the needy in all sorts of ways if they take a huge hit to tax revenues?
No. The damage is being caused entirely by the disease at this point. Look to the rest of the world to see that.
Whether in the longer term one 'cure' will prove to be worse than another for medical outcomes and economy is unknown.
But those two outcomes - fewer deaths or reducing damage to the economy - may turn out to be mutually exclusive.
Governments face a brutal but unavoidable choice: either accept an economic depression (hopefully only of around a year's duration) as you shut down most economic activity to halt the disease's spread until a vaccine or effective antivirals are available, or accept that tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe a million plus, people will die (in a country the size of the UK) and the health system will be utterly overwhelmed. However much you think the cost-benefit analysis favours the second path, in reality no government will follow it. And so economic depression is in my view unavoidable.
Japan and South Korea are accepting neither of those things.
There may be some arguments that although it looks like it's working now it won't be sustainable, or that it might work over here but it wouldn't work in Europe, but I wish people would stop talking like these are the only two options.
SK is on a very different path to others as the initial outbreak was traceable through a religious community. This concentrated start has bent the graph of cases there when compared to other countries.
With different testing regimes the true position in any two countries is almost impossible to establish.
As politicians wander the deserted streets of their cities, and the demands for handouts from beleaguered industries grow, perhaps they are starting to consider the gargantuan hit to economic activity that their policies are causing.
I read today BA are considering cancelling 75% of flights. That doesnt suggest recession. That suggest depression. an enormous one. Worse than 1930/31. Maybe much worse.
Is it worth it? is the cure causing more damage than the disease? How will governments be able to care for the needy in all sorts of ways if they take a huge hit to tax revenues?
No. The damage is being caused entirely by the disease at this point. Look to the rest of the world to see that.
Whether in the longer term one 'cure' will prove to be worse than another for medical outcomes and economy is unknown.
But those two outcomes - fewer deaths or reducing damage to the economy - may turn out to be mutually exclusive.
Governments face a brutal but unavoidable choice: either accept an economic depression (hopefully only of around a year's duration) as you shut down most economic activity to halt the disease's spread until a vaccine or effective antivirals are available, or accept that tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe a million plus, people will die (in a country the size of the UK) and the health system will be utterly overwhelmed. However much you think the cost-benefit analysis favours the second path, in reality no government will follow it. And so economic depression is in my view unavoidable.
Japan and South Korea are accepting neither of those things.
There may be some arguments that although it looks like it's working now it won't be sustainable, or that it might work over here but it wouldn't work in Europe, but I wish people would stop talking like these are the only two options.
Absolutely- the clever bit is going to be working out which social interactions to cut (crudely, big frivolous gatherings) and which ones to maintain (health, food, industry, I imagine). If we're lucky, that's enough to stop the virus going viral without utterly tanking the economy.
Fucking hell. There are no Sainbury's deliveries in my area available at all. For the three week window they allow.
I am housebound due to caring responsibilities.
Selfish bastards who are fit and well are taking up slots needed by vulnerable.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I just got back from the giant Sainsbury's in Camden people have gone completely insane. I just needed to get a few things now that I'm back in the country, there were idiots buying 10 packs of loo roll and 20 bags of pasta etc...
I can't understand why the supermarkets are letting people buy that many items. They should be limiting toilet rolls to 2 per person etc.
If people can't control themselves then it's up to the sellers to limit what people can buy.
Money is money. The supermarkets hear the sound of tills going "Kerr-ching". What's not to like?
Except if people begin to think that places are out of stock they won't go there. Much better business practice to give fewer items to fewer people.
At least one of the item on my online Tesco order was restricted to no more than two: tinned peas.
I didn't bother looking at toilet rolls and we have plenty (my wife has been hoarding them since forever).
I noticed eggs were sold out though.
Tesco's in Melton was full to overflowing (bar loo roll and hand san of which there was none, despite a limit on per person purchases) on Sat.
First Group, the transport operator, have HALVED in value this morning to 37p. It operates rail and bus services in the UK, US, Canada and Ireland - so is facing a massive drop in revenues as people self-isolate.
Restaurant Group, which runs Wagamama, Frankie & Benny’s and Chiquito, have slumped by 41% this morning.
Pub chains are also suffering extremely, with Mitchells & Butler down 32% and Marstons down 40%.
Question - for how long can operators like First Group (easyJet, BA etc) carry on with their market cap descending towards zero...? How many Big Name high street IFD and QSR sector outlets like Frankie and Bennys and Costa carry on with revenues crashing through the floor?
The need for the liquidity bomb to be detonated is real and urgent.
I hope First Group don't go under just yet. I've still got four months to go on my season ticket.
Been WfH, my Delay-Repays and the near £100 from the additional TPE compensation scheme are all banked, I'd say let 'em go if I wasn't in favour of something akin to the Italian approach of suspending all bankruptcy to allow time for the appropriate help to come through the system.
As politicians wander the deserted streets of their cities, and the demands for handouts from beleaguered industries grow, perhaps they are starting to consider the gargantuan hit to economic activity that their policies are causing.
I read today BA are considering cancelling 75% of flights. That doesnt suggest recession. That suggest depression. an enormous one. Worse than 1930/31. Maybe much worse.
Is it worth it? is the cure causing more damage than the disease? How will governments be able to care for the needy in all sorts of ways if they take a huge hit to tax revenues?
No. The damage is being caused entirely by the disease at this point. Look to the rest of the world to see that.
Whether in the longer term one 'cure' will prove to be worse than another for medical outcomes and economy is unknown.
But those two outcomes - fewer deaths or reducing damage to the economy - may turn out to be mutually exclusive.
Governments face a brutal but unavoidable choice: either accept an economic depression (hopefully only of around a year's duration) as you shut down most economic activity to halt the disease's spread until a vaccine or effective antivirals are available, or accept that tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe a million plus, people will die (in a country the size of the UK) and the health system will be utterly overwhelmed. However much you think the cost-benefit analysis favours the second path, in reality no government will follow it. And so economic depression is in my view unavoidable.
Japan and South Korea are accepting neither of those things.
There may be some arguments that although it looks like it's working now it won't be sustainable, or that it might work over here but it wouldn't work in Europe, but I wish people would stop talking like these are the only two options.
Absolutely- the clever bit is going to be working out which social interactions to cut (crudely, big frivolous gatherings) and which ones to maintain (health, food, industry, I imagine). If we're lucky, that's enough to stop the virus going viral without utterly tanking the economy.
Er... '...stop the virus going viral...'? Good luck with that one!
Shopping news (and I warn you all that this will make me sound like a middle class twat):
We couldn't place an order with Riverford yesterday evening due to high demand. However, Wor Lass was able to sign up with Abel & Cole and place a bulk order for delivery on Friday.
We are due to receive an additional fridge on Wednesday, so should be able to accommodate the fresh produce.
(I did say that there was plenty of organic fruit & veg in Sainsburys, but she went a bit mad)
What's the deadpool? Who succumbs in a perfect world?
Just guess at the sleb you think will succumb to Wuflu first. The winner will be lauded until our voices are hoarse while the losers will be derided with language characterised by violent sexual imagery. Imagine coming last...
What's the deadpool? Who succumbs in a perfect world?
Just guess at the sleb you think will succumb to Wuflu first. The winner will be lauded until our voices are hoarse while the losers will be derided with language characterised by violent sexual imagery. Imagine coming last...
A very bad taste competition.... so I'm in!
I pick Kieth Richards. He's been living on borrowed time since before GCSEs were introduced.
Just led the Monday morning team meeting. About 30 of us, all now WFH.
Someone noted the “govt and WHO don’t seem to agree”. General confusion about what the government’s policy is and what’s happening next.
Govt comms have failed so far.
Not sure it has failed. It’s just there are lots of shouty voices out there trying to drown out government’s communications. They’ve definitely had a bad weekend. Sounds like Cummings stirring and damaging what is in essence a good well thought through, counter intuitive but well explained strategy.
The rabble rousers are out there though. People like John Ashton. Utterly shocking. But the 24k cranks like home are easy to spot. Allowing an alistair Campbell style assault on the truth by picking up a throwaway flaw in the argument as opened the gates to the sewers.
The herd immunity is an aspirational outcome in the long term. It’s not the purpose of the current policy. Flatten the curve is. Stop the nhs been overwhelmed at the peak points, invoke isolation when they will have maximum impact and remember that people will not keep to them for prolonged periods.
We will see what Kier Starmer is made of with his response to this. So far more mature politicians like Burnham have stuck with but expressed caution.
Keir
K – E – I – R
But it is much more fun to spell it as the End of the Kier Show....
It increasingly seems to me that the world is coming to a halt and that everything will be about the virus for the rest of this year. So many things that seemed so important have been put into perspective. I'd like to think that we can mostly come out of this older and wiser.
So, are there any good things to come from this virus? Without being morbid and thinking about pension deficits I would suggest the following possibilities:
* There are real signs of an increase in community spirit. Perhaps the Italians in Rome defiantly singing their national anthem from their balconies was the best sign of that but we are all being forced to think hard about the vulnerable in our society and how they need help. It would be nice if this were to continue after this is over. * The changes in the housing market will make prices much more affordable for prospective new buyers. Much of the froth from the last few years will be gone. * From the climate perspective the drastic reduction in flying and travel will be a very good thing. Hopefully the lessons and habits we learn from this period will stay with us. * There is a change in the tone of our politics as it has got serious. Much of the childish abuse of the last few years seems very out of place. It would be nice if this moderation became the new norm. * The position of gig economy workers and the low paid has got far more attention than before. Surely we will not go back to such long delays in the provision of benefits or such an obnoxious penalty regime as we had before. This is going to be an ongoing challenge. How will society work as more and more of us are in such precarious work with such uncertainties about our future? This is a real issue that will shape our politics. * Some of the more extreme voices on the right are learning or relearning the importance of an activist state that can make society work better. If the State comes out of this reasonably well I think that will moderate some of our politics. Will the argument (which I have made myself) that deficits matter be sustainable? Will the idea of State Aid be so alien if funding keeps many companies afloat? * We just might get rid of Donald Trump 4 years early.
This society and my generation have been cosseted from major wars or disruption throughout our lives. That is a good thing but it has made us soft and self indulgent. We might just grow up a bit.
Just led the Monday morning team meeting. About 30 of us, all now WFH.
Someone noted the “govt and WHO don’t seem to agree”. General confusion about what the government’s policy is and what’s happening next.
Govt comms have failed so far.
Not sure it has failed. It’s just there are lots of shouty voices out there trying to drown out government’s communications. They’ve definitely had a bad weekend. Sounds like Cummings stirring and damaging what is in essence a good well thought through, counter intuitive but well explained strategy.
The rabble rousers are out there though. People like John Ashton. Utterly shocking. But the 24k cranks like home are easy to spot. Allowing an alistair Campbell style assault on the truth by picking up a throwaway flaw in the argument as opened the gates to the sewers.
The herd immunity is an aspirational outcome in the long term. It’s not the purpose of the current policy. Flatten the curve is. Stop the nhs been overwhelmed at the peak points, invoke isolation when they will have maximum impact and remember that people will not keep to them for prolonged periods.
We will see what Kier Starmer is made of with his response to this. So far more mature politicians like Burnham have stuck with but expressed caution.
Widespread, instant, testing will, I think, be the key to living with this virus. If you can test people on entry into a building, even if not with 100% accuracy, those that are negative can circulate freely and go about their business, while those that test positive get further processing in an isolated stream. Start with hospitals and food stores and then introduce daily testing into workplaces and schools. In the meantime keep transmission as low as you possibly can, even if it means relatively severe measures.
As politicians wander the deserted streets of their cities, and the demands for handouts from beleaguered industries grow, perhaps they are starting to consider the gargantuan hit to economic activity that their policies are causing.
I read today BA are considering cancelling 75% of flights. That doesnt suggest recession. That suggest depression. an enormous one. Worse than 1930/31. Maybe much worse.
Is it worth it? is the cure causing more damage than the disease? How will governments be able to care for the needy in all sorts of ways if they take a huge hit to tax revenues?
No. The damage is being caused entirely by the disease at this point. Look to the rest of the world to see that.
Whether in the longer term one 'cure' will prove to be worse than another for medical outcomes and economy is unknown.
But those two outcomes - fewer deaths or reducing damage to the economy - may turn out to be mutually exclusive.
Governments face a brutal but unavoidable choice: either accept an economic depression (hopefully only of around a year's duration) as you shut down most economic activity to halt the disease's spread until a vaccine or effective antivirals are available, or accept that tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe a million plus, people will die (in a country the size of the UK) and the health system will be utterly overwhelmed. However much you think the cost-benefit analysis favours the second path, in reality no government will follow it. And so economic depression is in my view unavoidable.
Presumably the best possible outcome is to slow the spread of the disease sufficiently that your health service is constantly operating at full capacity (but not beyond its capacity) so that your population acquires immunity as quickly as possible with the loss of as few lives as possible. Very difficult to achieve in practice though, I imagine!
As I am sure others have, I have noticed that there is a split in attitudes towards the measures the Govt should take depending on where people stand in their political views. Brexiteers / right wing are more of the "these things happen, the cure is worse than the disease etc" proponents, liberals / left are more the "let's clamp down, following the example of other countries". And if you are in a Northern, small town your attitude will probably be different than someone in leafy North London (stereotyping I know but....)
It's important though because that could influence the Government's response. I have no doubt that Theresa May as PM would have followed what is happening in Italy, Spain etc not only because of her natural instincts but because the Tory party as of that time - MPs in particular - would have backed this stance.
This has changed post-election. Many of the new MPs represent seats where going in with a "let's close everything and isolate the over-70s" will go down like a bucket of cold sick. Red Wall switchers are unlikely to be tolerant of such steps and the Tories will be careful not to alienate them. Add that to Boris' natural inclination not to interfere with personal liberties and I suspect the Govt - unless its hands are forced - will not go down the route of Europe.
Oh, and I can see Hancock getting the boot post-yesterday. Just reinforces what a d*ck he is
* There is a change in the tone of our politics as it has got serious. Much of the childish abuse of the last few years seems very out of place. It would be nice if this moderation became the new norm.
It increasingly seems to me that the world is coming to a halt and that everything will be about the virus for the rest of this year. So many things that seemed so important have been put into perspective. I'd like to think that we can mostly come out of this older and wiser.
So, are there any good things to come from this virus? Without being morbid and thinking about pension deficits I would suggest the following possibilities:
* There are real signs of an increase in community spirit. Perhaps the Italians in Rome defiantly singing their national anthem from their balconies was the best sign of that but we are all being forced to think hard about the vulnerable in our society and how they need help. It would be nice if this were to continue after this is over. * The changes in the housing market will make prices much more affordable for prospective new buyers. Much of the froth from the last few years will be gone. * From the climate perspective the drastic reduction in flying and travel will be a very good thing. Hopefully the lessons and habits we learn from this period will stay with us. * There is a change in the tone of our politics as it has got serious. Much of the childish abuse of the last few years seems very out of place. It would be nice if this moderation became the new norm. * The position of gig economy workers and the low paid has got far more attention than before. Surely we will not go back to such long delays in the provision of benefits or such an obnoxious penalty regime as we had before. This is going to be an ongoing challenge. How will society work as more and more of us are in such precarious work with such uncertainties about our future? This is a real issue that will shape our politics. * Some of the more extreme voices on the right are learning or relearning the importance of an activist state that can make society work better. If the State comes out of this reasonably well I think that will moderate some of our politics. Will the argument (which I have made myself) that deficits matter be sustainable? Will the idea of State Aid be so alien if funding keeps many companies afloat? * We just might get rid of Donald Trump 4 years early.
This society and my generation have been cosseted from major wars or disruption throughout our lives. That is a good thing but it has made us soft and self indulgent. We might just grow up a bit.
In the real world, away from this Vera Lynn stuff, economic activity, and therefore government revenues, will utterly collapse. Utterly.
UK job losses. Shall we say five million? ten? UK economic activity, Shall we say minus fifteen per cent? government revenues....what shall we cut first??
Seems like supermarket deliveries are now being hit by the panic madness. We've had our groceries delivered last few years, can normally get a slot next day but all slots for the forthcoming week were all already sold out last night. Just checked again and I'm guessing there as a cancellation as there was just one slot available for this Friday so booked that.
Be curious how much of what we order will actually arrive.
It increasingly seems to me that the world is coming to a halt and that everything will be about the virus for the rest of this year. So many things that seemed so important have been put into perspective. I'd like to think that we can mostly come out of this older and wiser.
So, are there any good things to come from this virus? Without being morbid and thinking about pension deficits I would suggest the following possibilities:
* There are real signs of an increase in community spirit. Perhaps the Italians in Rome defiantly singing their national anthem from their balconies was the best sign of that but we are all being forced to think hard about the vulnerable in our society and how they need help. It would be nice if this were to continue after this is over. * The changes in the housing market will make prices much more affordable for prospective new buyers. Much of the froth from the last few years will be gone. * From the climate perspective the drastic reduction in flying and travel will be a very good thing. Hopefully the lessons and habits we learn from this period will stay with us. * There is a change in the tone of our politics as it has got serious. Much of the childish abuse of the last few years seems very out of place. It would be nice if this moderation became the new norm. * The position of gig economy workers and the low paid has got far more attention than before. Surely we will not go back to such long delays in the provision of benefits or such an obnoxious penalty regime as we had before. This is going to be an ongoing challenge. How will society work as more and more of us are in such precarious work with such uncertainties about our future? This is a real issue that will shape our politics. * Some of the more extreme voices on the right are learning or relearning the importance of an activist state that can make society work better. If the State comes out of this reasonably well I think that will moderate some of our politics. Will the argument (which I have made myself) that deficits matter be sustainable? Will the idea of State Aid be so alien if funding keeps many companies afloat? * We just might get rid of Donald Trump 4 years early.
This society and my generation have been cosseted from major wars or disruption throughout our lives. That is a good thing but it has made us soft and self indulgent. We might just grow up a bit.
A very good post.
Other positives might include: that we value health and public services more and are prepared to invest in them appropriately.
I see the XR twats have now morphed in to "stop the system".
Stop the healthcare system?
Stop the sewer system?
Stop the Dewey Decimal System?
Of course as well know the XR leaders want a revolution and the capitalist system to be replaced their own crackpot medieval system. They are just being a bit more honest.
As politicians wander the deserted streets of their cities, and the demands for handouts from beleaguered industries grow, perhaps they are starting to consider the gargantuan hit to economic activity that their policies are causing.
I read today BA are considering cancelling 75% of flights. That doesnt suggest recession. That suggest depression. an enormous one. Worse than 1930/31. Maybe much worse.
Is it worth it? is the cure causing more damage than the disease? How will governments be able to care for the needy in all sorts of ways if they take a huge hit to tax revenues?
No. The damage is being caused entirely by the disease at this point. Look to the rest of the world to see that.
Whether in the longer term one 'cure' will prove to be worse than another for medical outcomes and economy is unknown.
But those two outcomes - fewer deaths or reducing damage to the economy - may turn out to be mutually exclusive.
Governments face a brutal but unavoidable choice: either accept an economic depression (hopefully only of around a year's duration) as you shut down most economic activity to halt the disease's spread until a vaccine or effective antivirals are available, or accept that tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe a million plus, people will die (in a country the size of the UK) and the health system will be utterly overwhelmed. However much you think the cost-benefit analysis favours the second path, in reality no government will follow it. And so economic depression is in my view unavoidable.
Japan and South Korea are accepting neither of those things.
There may be some arguments that although it looks like it's working now it won't be sustainable, or that it might work over here but it wouldn't work in Europe, but I wish people would stop talking like these are the only two options.
SK is on a very different path to others as the initial outbreak was traceable through a religious community. This concentrated start has bent the graph of cases there when compared to other countries.
With different testing regimes the true position in any two countries is almost impossible to establish.
The case fatality rate (especially using cases lagged c10 days) gives a good sense of whether cases are accurately measured via extensive testing. So low CFR in Korea suggests they are picking up most cases, while high CFRs in Europe and the US suggest the true number of cases is still significantly under-reported. Japan seems to have been able to contain the virus so far without significant community transmission, and as others have noted Korea had one big outbreak that facilitated tracing carriers. I think it has likely already spread too widely in most Western countries to allow for that kind of nuanced response. In any case the KOSPI is down about the same as the S&P so markets don't seem to think the Koreans will escape the economic hit, sadly.
Seems like supermarket deliveries are now being hit by the panic madness. We've had our groceries delivered last few years, can normally get a slot next day but all slots for the forthcoming week were all already sold out last night. Just checked again and I'm guessing there as a cancellation as there was just one slot available for this Friday so booked that.
Be curious how much of what we order will actually arrive.
Some combination of the oldies wanting to stay in and people fed up with the queues and chaos in store has certainly driven a lot of people toward online delivery. Mine too is booked out well into next week.
Widespread, instant, testing will, I think, be the key to living with this virus. If you can test people on entry into a building, even if not with 100% accuracy, those that are negative can circulate freely and go about their business, while those that test positive get further processing in an isolated stream. Start with hospitals and food stores and then introduce daily testing into workplaces and schools. In the meantime keep transmission as low as you possibly can, even if it means relatively severe measures.
That's where I would put the effort.
Issue is that if someone has just got infected they may show negative on a test, especially one as rough as that.
Fucking hell. There are no Sainbury's deliveries in my area available at all. For the three week window they allow.
I am housebound due to caring responsibilities.
Selfish bastards who are fit and well are taking up slots needed by vulnerable.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I just got back from the giant Sainsbury's in Camden people have gone completely insane. I just needed to get a few things now that I'm back in the country, there were idiots buying 10 packs of loo roll and 20 bags of pasta etc...
Same here in sunny Morningside where Waitrose has also run out of oatcakes. Doesn't bother me too much since I make my own far superior ones. Better get baking!
Just led the Monday morning team meeting. About 30 of us, all now WFH.
Someone noted the “govt and WHO don’t seem to agree”. General confusion about what the government’s policy is and what’s happening next.
Govt comms have failed so far.
Not sure it has failed. It’s just there are lots of shouty voices out there trying to drown out government’s communications. They’ve definitely had a bad weekend. Sounds like Cummings stirring and damaging what is in essence a good well thought through, counter intuitive but well explained strategy.
The rabble rousers are out there though. People like John Ashton. Utterly shocking. But the 24k cranks like home are easy to spot. Allowing an alistair Campbell style assault on the truth by picking up a throwaway flaw in the argument as opened the gates to the sewers.
The herd immunity is an aspirational outcome in the long term. It’s not the purpose of the current policy. Flatten the curve is. Stop the nhs been overwhelmed at the peak points, invoke isolation when they will have maximum impact and remember that people will not keep to them for prolonged periods.
We will see what Kier Starmer is made of with his response to this. So far more mature politicians like Burnham have stuck with but expressed caution.
What's the deadpool? Who succumbs in a perfect world?
Just guess at the sleb you think will succumb to Wuflu first. The winner will be lauded until our voices are hoarse while the losers will be derided with language characterised by violent sexual imagery. Imagine coming last...
A very bad taste competition.... so I'm in!
I pick Kieth Richards. He's been living on borrowed time since before GCSEs were introduced.
If he qualifies as a slab, Denis Skinner.
Just seen this; 'Something' predictive text.... I wrote SLEB! Freudian, though!!
Just led the Monday morning team meeting. About 30 of us, all now WFH.
Someone noted the “govt and WHO don’t seem to agree”. General confusion about what the government’s policy is and what’s happening next.
Govt comms have failed so far.
Not sure it has failed. It’s just there are lots of shouty voices out there trying to drown out government’s communications. They’ve definitely had a bad weekend. Sounds like Cummings stirring and damaging what is in essence a good well thought through, counter intuitive but well explained strategy.
The rabble rousers are out there though. People like John Ashton. Utterly shocking. But the 24k cranks like home are easy to spot. Allowing an alistair Campbell style assault on the truth by picking up a throwaway flaw in the argument as opened the gates to the sewers.
The herd immunity is an aspirational outcome in the long term. It’s not the purpose of the current policy. Flatten the curve is. Stop the nhs been overwhelmed at the peak points, invoke isolation when they will have maximum impact and remember that people will not keep to them for prolonged periods.
We will see what Kier Starmer is made of with his response to this. So far more mature politicians like Burnham have stuck with but expressed caution.
Keir
K – E – I – R
i suspect Keir Starmer will advocate some sort of UBI-type measures if the government hasn't already done first, and may well be right to do so.
Seems like supermarket deliveries are now being hit by the panic madness. We've had our groceries delivered last few years, can normally get a slot next day but all slots for the forthcoming week were all already sold out last night. Just checked again and I'm guessing there as a cancellation as there was just one slot available for this Friday so booked that.
Be curious how much of what we order will actually arrive.
Some combination of the oldies wanting to stay in and people fed up with the queues and chaos in store has certainly driven a lot of people toward online delivery. Mine too is booked out well into next week.
I see on my local forum that there is a lot of hostility towards able-bodied people taking away delivery slots from those who have good reason to avoid the shops because of their health.
Fucking hell. There are no Sainbury's deliveries in my area available at all. For the three week window they allow.
I am housebound due to caring responsibilities.
Selfish bastards who are fit and well are taking up slots needed by vulnerable.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I just got back from the giant Sainsbury's in Camden people have gone completely insane. I just needed to get a few things now that I'm back in the country, there were idiots buying 10 packs of loo roll and 20 bags of pasta etc...
I can't understand why the supermarkets are letting people buy that many items. They should be limiting toilet rolls to 2 per person etc.
If people can't control themselves then it's up to the sellers to limit what people can buy.
Money is money. The supermarkets hear the sound of tills going "Kerr-ching". What's not to like?
Well they'll still go Kerr-ching" anyway it's just that the goods will be spread out more evenly.
I'm not convinced. Many seem to be buying more stuff than they will need in a lifetime. I mean kids will be paying inheritance tax on toilet rolls and rice.
Why are people doing this? if they keep stocking the shelves at what point do people come to the conclusion that they have enough?
When they run out of space, and cash. The latter will happen soon enough.
Seems like supermarket deliveries are now being hit by the panic madness. We've had our groceries delivered last few years, can normally get a slot next day but all slots for the forthcoming week were all already sold out last night. Just checked again and I'm guessing there as a cancellation as there was just one slot available for this Friday so booked that.
Be curious how much of what we order will actually arrive.
Some combination of the oldies wanting to stay in and people fed up with the queues and chaos in store has certainly driven a lot of people toward online delivery. Mine too is booked out well into next week.
Its so much more convenient having groceries delivered, its cheaper too as you can patiently plan meals and don't have to take children around the supermarket insisting upon whatever treats take their fancy.
As politicians wander the deserted streets of their cities, and the demands for handouts from beleaguered industries grow, perhaps they are starting to consider the gargantuan hit to economic activity that their policies are causing.
I read today BA are considering cancelling 75% of flights. That doesnt suggest recession. That suggest depression. an enormous one. Worse than 1930/31. Maybe much worse.
Is it worth it? is the cure causing more damage than the disease? How will governments be able to care for the needy in all sorts of ways if they take a huge hit to tax revenues?
No. The damage is being caused entirely by the disease at this point. Look to the rest of the world to see that.
Whether in the longer term one 'cure' will prove to be worse than another for medical outcomes and economy is unknown.
But those two outcomes - fewer deaths or reducing damage to the economy - may turn out to be mutually exclusive.
Governments face a brutal but unavoidable choice: either accept an economic depression (hopefully only of around a year's duration) as you shut down most economic activity to halt the disease's spread until a vaccine or effective antivirals are available, or accept that tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe a million plus, people will die (in a country the size of the UK) and the health system will be utterly overwhelmed. However much you think the cost-benefit analysis favours the second path, in reality no government will follow it. And so economic depression is in my view unavoidable.
Japan and South Korea are accepting neither of those things.
There may be some arguments that although it looks like it's working now it won't be sustainable, or that it might work over here but it wouldn't work in Europe, but I wish people would stop talking like these are the only two options.
Absolutely- the clever bit is going to be working out which social interactions to cut (crudely, big frivolous gatherings) and which ones to maintain (health, food, industry, I imagine). If we're lucky, that's enough to stop the virus going viral without utterly tanking the economy.
Er... '...stop the virus going viral...'? Good luck with that one!
Frivolous way of making a serious point. The difference between managing a virus where each case infects 0.9 other people (numbers fall) and one which infects 1.1 people (numbers increase, eventually overwhelmingly) is massive. Doesn't stop you needing a long-term treatment, but gives you so much more time.
As politicians wander the deserted streets of their cities, and the demands for handouts from beleaguered industries grow, perhaps they are starting to consider the gargantuan hit to economic activity that their policies are causing.
I read today BA are considering cancelling 75% of flights. That doesnt suggest recession. That suggest depression. an enormous one. Worse than 1930/31. Maybe much worse.
Is it worth it? is the cure causing more damage than the disease? How will governments be able to care for the needy in all sorts of ways if they take a huge hit to tax revenues?
No. The damage is being caused entirely by the disease at this point. Look to the rest of the world to see that.
Whether in the longer term one 'cure' will prove to be worse than another for medical outcomes and economy is unknown.
But those two outcomes - fewer deaths or reducing damage to the economy - may turn out to be mutually exclusive.
Governments face a brutal but unavoidable choice: either accept an economic depression (hopefully only of around a year's duration) as you shut down most economic activity to halt the disease's spread until a vaccine or effective antivirals are available, or accept that tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe a million plus, people will die (in a country the size of the UK) and the health system will be utterly overwhelmed. However much you think the cost-benefit analysis favours the second path, in reality no government will follow it. And so economic depression is in my view unavoidable.
Presumably the best possible outcome is to slow the spread of the disease sufficiently that your health service is constantly operating at full capacity (but not beyond its capacity) so that your population acquires immunity as quickly as possible with the loss of as few lives as possible. Very difficult to achieve in practice though, I imagine!
As I am sure others have, I have noticed that there is a split in attitudes towards the measures the Govt should take depending on where people stand in their political views.
Oh, and I can see Hancock getting the boot post-yesterday. Just reinforces what a d*ck he is
You "have noticed". Do you have even a shred of evidence that the 'let it rip' mentality is more popular Ooop North?
Also, this idea of Hancock being sacked. Again, evidence?
I suspect this will be my only post before I get banned again (please dont) . I just thought I would give an update on two hospitals in Hampshire where my wife and daughter are nurses. They are as quiet as they have ever been. There are hundreds of empty beds. As an example my daughter looks after 12 beds on her ward, yesterday 8 of them were empty. She said that walking round the hospital it is eerie how quiet it is. These are two major hospitals and neither has a Covid 19 patient.
I am not surprised at that. I see this period as the 1940 phoney war. The calm before the storm.
Also, given the experience in places like Italy and China, it seems entirely possible that there will be some areas which, through luck or judgement, will escape relatively unscathed.
By the way I hope you are not banned. Useful first post.
People are not going to A & E so no beds taking up that way. All GP appts are being cancelled so no referrals. Most people with Covid 19 are just staying at home and getting better.
I would suggest that people look up the Swine Flu epidemic in the UK in 2009 on wikipedia. There were regulalrly over 60,000 reported cases in the UK per week and hundreds of deaths yet the world carried on.
I was at our A & E and out of hours doctors on Saturday night between 12 and 1.00 am and it seemed very quiet and I was seen by the doctor within half an hour
And neither the public or the professionals were wearing face masks other than a child and his parents in the out of hours doctors
Medics know that many people avoid doctors at all costs except when essential, a minority of folks are permanent doctor botherers and a small number need a lot of care. This is sorting out the groups.
I have just spoken to my GP practice and they will not see anyone unless they are telephone triaged and prescriptions are being left outside the building. Indeed it looks as if you cannot even access thevCentre for any reason by just turning up
I really think this is best practice and I would suggest it may become permanent post covid 19
Far too few resources are being devoted to cure and detection.
Public Health England busy discrediting home detection kits. We don;t know whether they work or not. Well why don't you? why aren't you testing them yourselves?
Meanwhile we have a vaccine, would you think about accelerated approval?
No thanks.
Perhaps some governments are enjoying this. They won;t be when they see the consequences of what they are doing
It increasingly seems to me that the world is coming to a halt and that everything will be about the virus for the rest of this year. So many things that seemed so important have been put into perspective. I'd like to think that we can mostly come out of this older and wiser.
So, are there any good things to come from this virus? Without being morbid and thinking about pension deficits I would suggest the following possibilities:
* There are real signs of an increase in community spirit. Perhaps the Italians in Rome defiantly singing their national anthem from their balconies was the best sign of that but we are all being forced to think hard about the vulnerable in our society and how they need help. It would be nice if this were to continue after this is over. * The changes in the housing market will make prices much more affordable for prospective new buyers. Much of the froth from the last few years will be gone. * From the climate perspective the drastic reduction in flying and travel will be a very good thing. Hopefully the lessons and habits we learn from this period will stay with us. * There is a change in the tone of our politics as it has got serious. Much of the childish abuse of the last few years seems very out of place. It would be nice if this moderation became the new norm. * The position of gig economy workers and the low paid has got far more attention than before. Surely we will not go back to such long delays in the provision of benefits or such an obnoxious penalty regime as we had before. This is going to be an ongoing challenge. How will society work as more and more of us are in such precarious work with such uncertainties about our future? This is a real issue that will shape our politics. * Some of the more extreme voices on the right are learning or relearning the importance of an activist state that can make society work better. If the State comes out of this reasonably well I think that will moderate some of our politics. Will the argument (which I have made myself) that deficits matter be sustainable? Will the idea of State Aid be so alien if funding keeps many companies afloat? * We just might get rid of Donald Trump 4 years early.
This society and my generation have been cosseted from major wars or disruption throughout our lives. That is a good thing but it has made us soft and self indulgent. We might just grow up a bit.
Far too few resources are being devoted to cure and detection.
Public Health England busy discrediting home detection kits. We don;t know whether they work or not. Well why don't you? why aren't you testing them yourselves?
Meanwhile we have a vaccine, would you think about accelerated approval?
No thanks.
Perhaps some governments are enjoying this. They won;t be when they see the consequences of what they are doing
Seems like supermarket deliveries are now being hit by the panic madness. We've had our groceries delivered last few years, can normally get a slot next day but all slots for the forthcoming week were all already sold out last night. Just checked again and I'm guessing there as a cancellation as there was just one slot available for this Friday so booked that.
Be curious how much of what we order will actually arrive.
Some combination of the oldies wanting to stay in and people fed up with the queues and chaos in store has certainly driven a lot of people toward online delivery. Mine too is booked out well into next week.
I see on my local forum that there is a lot of hostility towards able-bodied people taking away delivery slots from those who have good reason to avoid the shops because of their health.
Yeh. See my earlier posts. I have finally secured a slot with Tesco in a few days time. Ocado not taking new customers. Sainsburys total out for three week window.
Far too few resources are being devoted to cure and detection.
Public Health England busy discrediting home detection kits. We don;t know whether they work or not. Well why don't you? why aren't you testing them yourselves?
Meanwhile we have a vaccine, would you think about accelerated approval?
No thanks.
Perhaps some governments are enjoying this. They won;t be when they see the consequences of what they are doing
Seems like supermarket deliveries are now being hit by the panic madness. We've had our groceries delivered last few years, can normally get a slot next day but all slots for the forthcoming week were all already sold out last night. Just checked again and I'm guessing there as a cancellation as there was just one slot available for this Friday so booked that.
Be curious how much of what we order will actually arrive.
Some combination of the oldies wanting to stay in and people fed up with the queues and chaos in store has certainly driven a lot of people toward online delivery. Mine too is booked out well into next week.
I see on my local forum that there is a lot of hostility towards able-bodied people taking away delivery slots from those who have good reason to avoid the shops because of their health.
We have been in the habit of getting a weekly delivery from Waitrose. You can usually book daytime delivery slots 24 hours ahead. Earlier today I saw their first available slot was next week, so decided we'll go in rather than take future slots (since we can physically shop).
PS Checking again, I see Waitrose.com is down currently.
Supermarket deliveries were always going to fall over. There's a finite amount of capacity, every delivery costs the supermarkets money so little incentive to significantly invest in more. The idea that people can fall back on the Tesco man doing the shopping for them was always a non-starter.
Had to explain this to my dad. He is not exactly up to speed with new fangled technology but suggested that they would do their first online shop rather than go out. I pointed out that its likely 2 or 3 weeks until delivery so better to go shop. They're old, his chest is buggered, they're largely keeping away from people, but will need stuff.
And no, I can't do the shopping for them as its a long way.
Supermarket deliveries were always going to fall over. There's a finite amount of capacity, every delivery costs the supermarkets money so little incentive to significantly invest in more. The idea that people can fall back on the Tesco man doing the shopping for them was always a non-starter.
Had to explain this to my dad. He is not exactly up to speed with new fangled technology but suggested that they would do their first online shop rather than go out. I pointed out that its likely 2 or 3 weeks until delivery so better to go shop. They're old, his chest is buggered, they're largely keeping away from people, but will need stuff.
And no, I can't do the shopping for them as its a long way.
If I were you I'd head over to them to make sure they were stocked up to the rafters. Get it done in a day, and you have some peace of mind going forward.
The regional government in Quebec has ordered the closure bars, theatres, gyms, ski hills, sugar shacks, arcades, and pools, while restaurants have been told to operate only at 50% capacity and the over-70s have been urged to stay at home, the Montreal Gazette reports.
?! Wtf is a "sugar shack"?
Sounds like they should have been closed down as a health risk years ago tbh.
I suspect this will be my only post before I get banned again (please dont) . I just thought I would give an update on two hospitals in Hampshire where my wife and daughter are nurses. They are as quiet as they have ever been. There are hundreds of empty beds. As an example my daughter looks after 12 beds on her ward, yesterday 8 of them were empty. She said that walking round the hospital it is eerie how quiet it is. These are two major hospitals and neither has a Covid 19 patient.
I am not surprised at that. I see this period as the 1940 phoney war. The calm before the storm.
Also, given the experience in places like Italy and China, it seems entirely possible that there will be some areas which, through luck or judgement, will escape relatively unscathed.
By the way I hope you are not banned. Useful first post.
People are not going to A & E so no beds taking up that way. All GP appts are being cancelled so no referrals. Most people with Covid 19 are just staying at home and getting better.
I would suggest that people look up the Swine Flu epidemic in the UK in 2009 on wikipedia. There were regulalrly over 60,000 reported cases in the UK per week and hundreds of deaths yet the world carried on.
I was at our A & E and out of hours doctors on Saturday night between 12 and 1.00 am and it seemed very quiet and I was seen by the doctor within half an hour
And neither the public or the professionals were wearing face masks other than a child and his parents in the out of hours doctors
Medics know that many people avoid doctors at all costs except when essential, a minority of folks are permanent doctor botherers and a small number need a lot of care. This is sorting out the groups.
I have just spoken to my GP practice and they will not see anyone unless they are telephone triaged and prescriptions are being left outside the building. Indeed it looks as if you cannot even access thevCentre for any reason by just turning up
I really think this is best practice and I would suggest it may become permanent post covid 19
We can't book appointments on-line any more. Have to ring and be triaged to exclude Covid-19 'suspects'. Elderly People's Chiropody in the local church hall was functioning normally though, everyone turning up as far as we could see.
The regional government in Quebec has ordered the closure bars, theatres, gyms, ski hills, sugar shacks, arcades, and pools, while restaurants have been told to operate only at 50% capacity and the over-70s have been urged to stay at home, the Montreal Gazette reports.
I have had a strange few days, I was skiing in Switzerland and as usual took the last lift down, which turned out to be the last lift of the season as all resorts were shut down.
I was in a chalet in Switzerland, but no problem, next day drove 15 miles into France to the next village and caught the lift up from there, it was strange to ski up to the Swiss border and see the restaurants just 50 metres away all shutting down whilst the French were busy with customers.
Took the last lift down, and yes again it was the last lift of the season as France shut all the resorts. We decided to head home, but called in at Montreux which was buzzing with people enjoying the Spring sun, and was far more at risk of spreading the virus than the ski slopes. Finally got an easy jet plane home. Just have to wait now and see if I am infected.
The regional government in Quebec has ordered the closure bars, theatres, gyms, ski hills, sugar shacks, arcades, and pools, while restaurants have been told to operate only at 50% capacity and the over-70s have been urged to stay at home, the Montreal Gazette reports.
?! Wtf is a "sugar shack"?
Sounds like they should have been closed down as a health risk years ago tbh.
Despite sounding like where you go to get your coke, they are traditionally where maple syrup is processed, but now often small cabin restaurants you go to sample maple syrup related foods.
The regional government in Quebec has ordered the closure bars, theatres, gyms, ski hills, sugar shacks, arcades, and pools, while restaurants have been told to operate only at 50% capacity and the over-70s have been urged to stay at home, the Montreal Gazette reports.
?! Wtf is a "sugar shack"?
Sounds like they should have been closed down as a health risk years ago tbh.
They are traditionally where maple syrup is processed, but now often small cabin restaurants you go to do sample maple syrup related food.
Maybe I was thinking of the B52's, and their "love shack".
As politicians wander the deserted streets of their cities, and the demands for handouts from beleaguered industries grow, perhaps they are starting to consider the gargantuan hit to economic activity that their policies are causing.
I read today BA are considering cancelling 75% of flights. That doesnt suggest recession. That suggest depression. an enormous one. Worse than 1930/31. Maybe much worse.
Is it worth it? is the cure causing more damage than the disease? How will governments be able to care for the needy in all sorts of ways if they take a huge hit to tax revenues?
No. The damage is being caused entirely by the disease at this point. Look to the rest of the world to see that.
Whether in the longer term one 'cure' will prove to be worse than another for medical outcomes and economy is unknown.
But those two outcomes - fewer deaths or reducing damage to the economy - may turn out to be mutually exclusive.
Governments face a brutal but unavoidable choice: either accept an economic depression (hopefully only of around a year's duration) as you shut down most economic activity to halt the disease's spread until a vaccine or effective antivirals are available, or accept that tens, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe a million plus, people will die (in a country the size of the UK) and the health system will be utterly overwhelmed. However much you think the cost-benefit analysis favours the second path, in reality no government will follow it. And so economic depression is in my view unavoidable.
Presumably the best possible outcome is to slow the spread of the disease sufficiently that your health service is constantly operating at full capacity (but not beyond its capacity) so that your population acquires immunity as quickly as possible with the loss of as few lives as possible. Very difficult to achieve in practice though, I imagine!
As I am sure others have, I have noticed that there is a split in attitudes towards the measures the Govt should take depending on where people stand in their political views.
Oh, and I can see Hancock getting the boot post-yesterday. Just reinforces what a d*ck he is
You "have noticed". Do you have even a shred of evidence that the 'let it rip' mentality is more popular Ooop North?
Also, this idea of Hancock being sacked. Again, evidence?
I didn't do a 2500 person opinion poll on the subject, I said I have noticed it in my conversations. Read what I said. As for the "oops North" bit, talk about stereotyping. Maybe you should take your cue from your Dear Leader, Jeremy Corbyn, he who is wise in everything.
The regional government in Quebec has ordered the closure bars, theatres, gyms, ski hills, sugar shacks, arcades, and pools, while restaurants have been told to operate only at 50% capacity and the over-70s have been urged to stay at home, the Montreal Gazette reports.
?! Wtf is a "sugar shack"?
I assumed a French Canadian euphemism for brothel but dunno!
Comments
It is 6 to 10 times the price
When the economic consequences of what they are doing start to run through in a couple of months, sheesh. Doesn;t bear thinking about,
They will have crisis far worse than Corona on their hands. And maybe the insanity of what they are doing will start to dawn on them.
K – E – I – R
Everyone's a winner Rodders.
With different testing regimes the true position in any two countries is almost impossible to establish.
We couldn't place an order with Riverford yesterday evening due to high demand. However, Wor Lass was able to sign up with Abel & Cole and place a bulk order for delivery on Friday.
We are due to receive an additional fridge on Wednesday, so should be able to accommodate the fresh produce.
(I did say that there was plenty of organic fruit & veg in Sainsburys, but she went a bit mad)
At the moment everyone is in: "will I get it/do I have it/did I have it" mode.
Data are king. Once we know who, where and when the govt can act.
https://tinyurl.com/s5zsntr
My tuppence worth - The Duchess of Cornwall....
So, are there any good things to come from this virus? Without being morbid and thinking about pension deficits I would suggest the following possibilities:
* There are real signs of an increase in community spirit. Perhaps the Italians in Rome defiantly singing their national anthem from their balconies was the best sign of that but we are all being forced to think hard about the vulnerable in our society and how they need help. It would be nice if this were to continue after this is over.
* The changes in the housing market will make prices much more affordable for prospective new buyers. Much of the froth from the last few years will be gone.
* From the climate perspective the drastic reduction in flying and travel will be a very good thing. Hopefully the lessons and habits we learn from this period will stay with us.
* There is a change in the tone of our politics as it has got serious. Much of the childish abuse of the last few years seems very out of place. It would be nice if this moderation became the new norm.
* The position of gig economy workers and the low paid has got far more attention than before. Surely we will not go back to such long delays in the provision of benefits or such an obnoxious penalty regime as we had before. This is going to be an ongoing challenge. How will society work as more and more of us are in such precarious work with such uncertainties about our future? This is a real issue that will shape our politics.
* Some of the more extreme voices on the right are learning or relearning the importance of an activist state that can make society work better. If the State comes out of this reasonably well I think that will moderate some of our politics. Will the argument (which I have made myself) that deficits matter be sustainable? Will the idea of State Aid be so alien if funding keeps many companies afloat?
* We just might get rid of Donald Trump 4 years early.
This society and my generation have been cosseted from major wars or disruption throughout our lives. That is a good thing but it has made us soft and self indulgent. We might just grow up a bit.
Welcome back, private Walker.
That's where I would put the effort.
It's important though because that could influence the Government's response. I have no doubt that Theresa May as PM would have followed what is happening in Italy, Spain etc not only because of her natural instincts but because the Tory party as of that time - MPs in particular - would have backed this stance.
This has changed post-election. Many of the new MPs represent seats where going in with a "let's close everything and isolate the over-70s" will go down like a bucket of cold sick. Red Wall switchers are unlikely to be tolerant of such steps and the Tories will be careful not to alienate them. Add that to Boris' natural inclination not to interfere with personal liberties and I suspect the Govt - unless its hands are forced - will not go down the route of Europe.
Oh, and I can see Hancock getting the boot post-yesterday. Just reinforces what a d*ck he is
Stop the sewer system?
Stop the Dewey Decimal System?
UK job losses. Shall we say five million? ten? UK economic activity, Shall we say minus fifteen per cent? government revenues....what shall we cut first??
Wake up mate.
If Liz, Attenborough and Palin go, the UK middle class might meltdown.
Be curious how much of what we order will actually arrive.
Other positives might include: that we value health and public services more and are prepared to invest in them appropriately.
'Health before wealth' ought to be the mantra.
@Dura_Ace David Mitchell
@tlg86 Jeremy Clarkson
@MarqueeMark Polly Toynbee
@SandyRentool Simon Calder
@malcolmg Philip Schofield
@kinabula The Queen
@Garethofthevale2 Michael Heseltine
@Philip_Thompson S.K. Tremayne
@RochdalePioneers George R.R. Martin
@Foss Prince Philip
@Benpointer Donald Trump
@Endillion David Attenborough
@nichomar Anne Widdicombe
@Topping Cordelia Gummer
@AramintaMoonbeamQC Jeremy Corbyn
@Beibheirli_C Clint Eastwood
@Richard_Tyndall Prince Charles
@williamglenn Barry Manilow
@felix Owen Jones
@eristdoof Keith Richards
@paulyork64 Paul Gascoigne
@OldKingCole Dennis Skinner
@CarlottaVance Duchess of Cornwall
@Stocky Michael Palin
@Pro_Rata Kenneth Clarke
@MrEd Gwyneth Paltrow
In any case the KOSPI is down about the same as the S&P so markets don't seem to think the Koreans will escape the economic hit, sadly.
I'd take Edward III over the twattish cabal of XR any day of the week.
Also, this idea of Hancock being sacked. Again, evidence?
I really think this is best practice and I would suggest it may become permanent post covid 19
Yet.
Public Health England busy discrediting home detection kits. We don;t know whether they work or not. Well why don't you? why aren't you testing them yourselves?
Meanwhile we have a vaccine, would you think about accelerated approval?
No thanks.
Perhaps some governments are enjoying this. They won;t be when they see the consequences of what they are doing
PS Checking again, I see Waitrose.com is down currently.
Had to explain this to my dad. He is not exactly up to speed with new fangled technology but suggested that they would do their first online shop rather than go out. I pointed out that its likely 2 or 3 weeks until delivery so better to go shop. They're old, his chest is buggered, they're largely keeping away from people, but will need stuff.
And no, I can't do the shopping for them as its a long way.
Or will they?
?! Wtf is a "sugar shack"?
Sounds like they should have been closed down as a health risk years ago tbh.
I was in a chalet in Switzerland, but no problem, next day drove 15 miles into France to the next village and caught the lift up from there, it was strange to ski up to the Swiss border and see the restaurants just 50 metres away all shutting down whilst the French were busy with customers.
Took the last lift down, and yes again it was the last lift of the season as France shut all the resorts. We decided to head home, but called in at Montreux which was buzzing with people enjoying the Spring sun, and was far more at risk of spreading the virus than the ski slopes.
Finally got an easy jet plane home.
Just have to wait now and see if I am infected.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3_zWMGgEz0
Joe Biden
Absolute wnkers.
So just pointless anecdotes. Okay, glad we cleared that up.