Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That is just one definition among dozens. Why is it the one that you favour?
As it has been accepted as the time of the start of Spring in Britain since the time of the Druids
Right. Like I said, that made sense when you only had a stone circle to measure the passage of time through the year, but there have been developments since then and so there are now many different season definitions that make more sense.
Relying on tradition doesn't help you because your definition certainly wasn't widely used in times medieval, for example, when the feast of St Martin on November 11th marked the start of winter.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
Down Rover! As a remainer [ while not a eurofantic] I believed a key role for the EU is to co-ordinate in matters which cross national boundaries in so obvious a manner as this. I have long regretted the fact that the EU played no role in healthcare as such. At the very least though I'd have expected it to be offering significant support at this time to Italy - surely that would be in the interest of the whole of Europe?
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That is just one definition among dozens. Why is it the one that you favour?
As it has been accepted as the time of the start of Spring in Britain since the time of the Druids
Right. Like I said, that made sense when you only had a stone circle to measure the passage of time through the year, but there have been developments since then and so there are now many different season definitions that make more sense.
Relying on tradition doesn't help you because your definition certainly wasn't widely used in times medieval, for example, when the feast of St Martin on November 11th marked the start of winter.
Did it? Thank you! I thought it was just me that had spotted November's autumn claim as a fraud.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Correct. The seasons are set by the cosmos and not by the regulations of any government agency - the so-called ‘meteorological definition‘ simply means that of the Met Office.
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
The South East has hardly any celtic monuments (stone crosses and the like), unlike parts of England further north or west. Tending to support theories of a difference between the pre-Anglo Saxon populations of eastern and western Britain.
Or a difference in the settlement pattern and/or density. Much of the South West was settled quite late. There is evidence that the Romans settled Germanic tribes as Foederati in Britannia, and that some military units would have been Germanic in origin, but I'm not sure they would have provided a substantial proportion of the population. May have acted as a beachhead when others came over, though.
Aren't most of the Welsh stone crosses from no earlier than the period when the first major A/S conquests were taking place though? And mostly from after the clear establishment of the proto-English kingdoms.
IIRC it’s certain that Anglo-Saxons were invited to Britain as fœderati by Romano-British leaders after the Roman military left and that they probably did act as a bridgehead. Not sure if the evidence is so good for them coming before the recall of the legions though.
I think the biggest argument against a pre-Roman departure A/S settlement though is that the peoples the Romans record conquering in what is now south and eastern England are clearly Celtic: Iceni, Atrebates and some like the Belgae around modern Hampshire were clearly offshots of Gallic people with the same names. We have absolutely no records or evidence of them being displaced prior to the end of Roman Britain. Now, it’s not impossible that a whole bunch of Anglo-Saxons were indeed invited to Britain at some point between say 100AD and 400AD but we’ve yet to find any real evidence of it.
No there is clear evidence of fœderati being settled in Roman Britain from the late 3rd century onwards. Probably from around 280AD when a lot of the Roman towns were instructed to build defences around them as a result of incursions and instability across the Empire. The presence of Germanic shrines on Hadrian's wall and of Deae Matres at a number of Roman garrison towns and cities across Britain shows they were around for at least a century before 410AD.
I have just been filming with Channel 5 for a programme they are doing on Roman Britain and touched on this in the (very short) interview.
On the question of displacement of existing population, I think that misunderstands the situation. In much of Southern Britain it now looks like the pre-Roman population had already been substantially cleared as part of the formation of the Villa Landscape.
Didn’t the celts live on top of hills whereas the Roman villas (and Anglo Saxon towns) would be in the valley?
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
Practically every river in Southern (and much of Northern) England has a pre -Roman derived name. That includes the Trent, Thames, Avon, Kenn, Sid, Tees and dozens of others.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
Some meteorologists, for some purposes, will use long summer and winter seasons of five months each (Nov-Mar and May-Sep) and then one-month spring and autumn transition seasons.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That's one definition but quite frankly there's no meteorological reason to define 20th December as not winter.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
The virus has already reached the Faroe Islands. So I don't think there's anywhere clever you can go to escape from it.
I'd say you'd want a detached house with a private garden and your own vehicle (that way you can absolutely isolate and aside from the postman, milkman and deliverymen ..all deliveries of which you can "wipe down" before taking inside) and if you have to go out you're going out in your own vehicle. You're minimising any contact with anyone else to effectively zero.
Other than that I don't think it matters where you are. I'd just pick a low crime area.
You can certainly overthink it. If you're too isolated you won't be a priority for supplies if supply chains break down (including fuel to get in and out) and almost entirely on your own.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
Collectively via the World Health Organisation?
Or do you have some other organisation you want to be nationalistic about?
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
The South East has hardly any celtic monuments (stone crosses and the like), unlike parts of England further north or west. Tending to support theories of a difference between the pre-Anglo Saxon populations of eastern and western Britain.
Or a difference in the settlement pattern and/or density. Much of the South West was settled quite late. There is evidence that the Romans settled Germanic tribes as Foederati in Britannia, and that some military units would have been Germanic in origin, but I'm not sure they would have provided a substantial proportion of the population. May have acted as a beachhead when others came over, though.
Aren't most of the Welsh stone crosses from no earlier than the period when the first major A/S conquests were taking place though? And mostly from after the clear establishment of the proto-English kingdoms.
IIRC it’s certain that Anglo-Saxons were invited to Britain as fœderati by Romano-British leaders after the Roman military left and that they probably did act as a bridgehead. Not sure if the evidence is so good for them coming before the recall of the legions though.
I think the biggest argument against a pre-Roman departure A/S settlement though is that the peoples the Romans record conquering in what is now south and eastern England are clearly Celtic: Iceni, Atrebates and some like the Belgae around modern Hampshire were clearly offshots of Gallic people with the same names. We have absolutely no records or evidence of them being displaced prior to the end of Roman Britain. Now, it’s not impossible that a whole bunch of Anglo-Saxons were indeed invited to Britain at some point between say 100AD and 400AD but we’ve yet to find any real evidence of it.
No there is clear evidence of fœderati being settled in Roman Britain from the late 3rd century onwards. Probably from around 280AD when a lot of the Roman towns were instructed to build defences around them as a result of incursions and instability across the Empire. The presence of Germanic shrines on Hadrian's wall and of Deae Matres at a number of Roman garrison towns and cities across Britain shows they were around for at least a century before 410AD.
I have just been filming with Channel 5 for a programme they are doing on Roman Britain and touched on this in the (very short) interview.
On the question of displacement of existing population, I think that misunderstands the situation. In much of Southern Britain it now looks like the pre-Roman population had already been substantially cleared as part of the formation of the Villa Landscape.
Didn’t the celts live on top of hills whereas the Roman villas (and Anglo Saxon towns) would be in the valley?
Put simply, no.
It is probable that the hill forts were not used as centres of population but as places of retreat.
So in Ancaster the Middle Iron Age settlement was on a terrace just above the bottom of the valley and in the late Iron Age the settlement moved down onto the valley bottom. This was several hundred years before the Romans arrived. There is a near by Iron Age hill fort at Honnington Camp but this shows no indications of being used as a settlement and only as a place of retreat.
This is a similar pattern seen right across England.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
Clearly felix thinks we need more Europe. A European Health Service, and European Police to enforce quarantines.
As you can see from my post above I did believe that with regard to healthcare. As it is one would have expected the organisation to play a more prominent role particularly with regard to support for Italy.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
Collectively via the World Health Organisation?
Or do you have some other organisation you want to be nationalistic about?
The WHO...it really needs to step up to the plate on this one...the EU is an irrelevance....
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
Snow in the Uk is more likely on Easter Day than Christmas Day, yet the latter is clearly winter and the former often not.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
I think you will find he is a very ardent Europhile most of the time...
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
I am not denying the role of the WHO, which has been good so far, and the EU does have a role on border related issues, but it is simply a matter of fact that each country has it's own healthcare system. There is quite a spectrum from state organised to majority private, so national governments are rightly leading this.
There may be a case for reorganizing health care systems, but at present we have to work with existing structures.
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
Read Adam Rutherford's A Brief History of Everyone Who Ever Lived.
Everyone of largely European descent alove today is decsended from everyone who was both: alive in Europe over 1500 years ago and has living descendents.
So if you are of largely European descent and Boudicca has any living descendants at all, you are one of them.
The only unknown really is whether Boudicca has any living descendants but it reckoned that about 80% of people who lived in the past do have living descendants.
I reada book recently which argued the case that much of what is now Eastern England was largely Germanic-speaking at the time of the Roman invasion.
Who knows. The point is we* are all related to everyone who was alive in Europe 1500 years ago.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That's one definition but quite frankly there's no meteorological reason to define 20th December as not winter.
If you had thermal seasons, winter would run 12 Dec thru 12 March and so on, apparently. But, we don’t, so the only scientific option is astronomical seasons set by the immutable laws of physics.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
Collectively via the World Health Organisation?
Or do you have some other organisation you want to be nationalistic about?
The WHO...it really needs to step up to the plate on this one...the EU is an irrelevance....
On this issue I 100% agree with you. This is a global illness, geography is largely irrelevant.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Correct. The seasons are set by the cosmos and not by the regulations of any government agency - the so-called ‘meteorological definition‘ simply means that of the Met Office.
The Met Office was established in 1854 as a small department within the Board of Trade under Vice Admiral Robert FitzRoy as a service to mariners.
In 1780 the Societas Meteorologica Palatina (which became defunct in 1795), an early international organization for meteorology, defined seasons as groupings of three whole months as identified by the Gregorian calendar. Ever since, professional meteorologists all over the world have used this definition.[9] Therefore, for temperate areas in the northern hemisphere, spring begins on 1 March, summer on 1 June, autumn on 1 September, and winter on 1 December.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
Collectively via the World Health Organisation?
Or do you have some other organisation you want to be nationalistic about?
Whatever works. If it is the EU so be it. If it is the WHO then just as good. To be honest right now it may well be the people we need to be working most closely with are the Chinese.
The quote from the recent Cobra TV series is quite apt in this situation.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
The South East has hardly any celtic monuments (stone crosses and the like), unlike parts of England further north or west. Tending to support theories of a difference between the pre-Anglo Saxon populations of eastern and western Britain.
Or a difference in the settlement pattern and/or density. Much of the South West was settled quite late. There is evidence that the Romans settled Germanic tribes as Foederati in Britannia, and that some military units would have been Germanic in origin, but I'm not sure they would have provided a substantial proportion of the population. May have acted as a beachhead when others came over, though.
Aren't most of the Welsh stone crosses from no earlier than the period when the first major A/S conquests were taking place though? And mostly from after the clear establishment of the proto-English kingdoms.
IIRC it’s certain that Anglo-Saxons were invited to Britain as fœderati by Romano-British leaders after the Roman military left and that they probably did act as a bridgehead. Not sure if the evidence is so good for them coming before the recall of the legions though.
I think the biggest argument against a pre-Roman departure A/S settlement though is that the peoples the Romans record conquering in what is now south and eastern England are clearly Celtic: Iceni, Atrebates and some like the Belgae around modern Hampshire were clearly offshots of Gallic people with the same names. We have absolutely no records or evidence of them being displaced prior to the end of Roman Britain. Now, it’s not impossible that a whole bunch of Anglo-Saxons were indeed invited to Britain at some point between say 100AD and 400AD but we’ve yet to find any real evidence of it.
As I recall, oppenheimer’s argument was that the Belgae were proto-Germanic, maybe germanicised celts
The virus has already reached the Faroe Islands. So I don't think there's anywhere clever you can go to escape from it.
I'd say you'd want a detached house with a private garden and your own vehicle (that way you can absolutely isolate and aside from the postman, milkman and deliverymen ..all deliveries of which you can "wipe down" before taking inside) and if you have to go out you're going out in your own vehicle. You're minimising any contact with anyone else to effectively zero.
Other than that I don't think it matters where you are. I'd just pick a low crime area.
You can certainly overthink it. If you're too isolated you won't be a priority for supplies if supply chains break down (including fuel to get in and out) and almost entirely on your own.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
I am not denying the role of the WHO, which has been good so far, and the EU does have a role on border related issues, but it is simply a matter of fact that each country has it's own healthcare system. There is quite a spectrum from state organised to majority private, so national governments are rightly leading this.
There may be a case for reorganizing health care systems, but at present we have to work with existing structures.
You don't feel the EU should be offering significant financial help to Italy at this time - perhaps wrt to the deficit rules for example?
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
Read Adam Rutherford's A Brief History of Everyone Who Ever Lived.
Everyone of largely European descent alove today is decsended from everyone who was both: alive in Europe over 1500 years ago and has living descendents.
So if you are of largely European descent and Boudicca has any living descendants at all, you are one of them.
The only unknown really is whether Boudicca has any living descendants but it reckoned that about 80% of people who lived in the past do have living descendants.
I reada book recently which argued the case that much of what is now Eastern England was largely Germanic-speaking at the time of the Roman invasion.
Who knows. The point is we* are all related to everyone who was alive in Europe 1500 years ago.
(*Western Europeans)
Everyone who has living descendants
No, everyone - but some will be great, great, great... etc. uncles, aunts and cousins.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
Collectively via the World Health Organisation?
Or do you have some other organisation you want to be nationalistic about?
We voted to leave the EU, not the human race.
A surprising number of people seem to think we might as well have voted such.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That's one definition but quite frankly there's no meteorological reason to define 20th December as not winter.
If you had thermal seasons, winter would run 12 Dec thru 12 March and so on, apparently. But, we don’t, so the only scientific option is astronomical seasons set by the immutable laws of physics.
The meteorological definition is also scientific as used by the Met whose literal job it is to deal with the weather etc more than anyone else.
So, a Coronavirus case in Cheltenham. But so far it's situation no change. Plus maps of hand sanitisers at the course. Maybe one map points to the Tesco's in Gloucester.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That's one definition but quite frankly there's no meteorological reason to define 20th December as not winter.
If you had thermal seasons, winter would run 12 Dec thru 12 March and so on, apparently. But, we don’t, so the only scientific option is astronomical seasons set by the immutable laws of physics.
The meteorological definition is also scientific as used by the Met whose literal job it is to deal with the weather etc more than anyone else.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
Collectively via the World Health Organisation?
Or do you have some other organisation you want to be nationalistic about?
We voted to leave the EU, not the human race.
A surprising number of people seem to think we might as well have voted such.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
Snow in the Uk is more likely on Easter Day than Christmas Day, yet the latter is clearly winter and the former often not.
Christmas Day falls right at the very start of winter and Easter is often still in March.
Christmas Day signals the start of Winter, not Mid Winter, Easter Day signals the start of Spring, not Mid Spring
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
The US is one nation, perhaps you have so convinced yourself of the United States of Europe schtick that you actually believe that's what it is. Out of interest What do you believe that the EU should be doing or that individual countries aren't already doing themselves?
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
Of course that helps although completely ignores the substance of my point and is around £10m less than the UK has given.
This is predominantly a national issue, with some need for international co-operation.
Is your complaint that the EU is NOT interfering with national sovereignty?
I would have thought the reaction to this should be coordinated internationally, not nationally.
Yes, that is what WHO is for.
So it's not a predominantly national issue. Far from it, in fact.
Health care organisation is a national competency, which is why it varies across the EU.
What a load of bobblebedooks...with all due respects Dr Fox... when it comes to a pandemic....we need to look what's happening and learn..collectively...nationalism is irrelevant comrade
I am not denying the role of the WHO, which has been good so far, and the EU does have a role on border related issues, but it is simply a matter of fact that each country has it's own healthcare system. There is quite a spectrum from state organised to majority private, so national governments are rightly leading this.
There may be a case for reorganizing health care systems, but at present we have to work with existing structures.
You don't feel the EU should be offering significant financial help to Italy at this time - perhaps wrt to the deficit rules for example?
I think relaxing financial rules would be reasonable to avert an economic hit, but the work on public health and health delivery are national issues.
This evening I’ve backed Cheltenham races not to go ahead at 10/1. The health service in Italy in the affected areas sounds like it is at crisis point. This country is likely to move from “Contain” to “Delay” fairly soon - maybe at tomorrow’s COBRA meeting? We need to flatten the curve so the NHS can cope. Will that mean cancelling large gatherings? If we decide to do this tomorrow Cheltenham will be cancelled. France has banned gatherings of more than 1000 people.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
the EU have been like rabbits in the headlights.
The problem that the EU has with this is that their number one policy, which they were ultimately prepared to lose the UK as a member because of, namely freedom of movement, currently looks batshit mental. It’s awkward.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
I think of snowdrops as usually over by February (though not this year). Growing up in Devon I remember usually seeing them between Christmas and New Year's day.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
Snow in the Uk is more likely on Easter Day than Christmas Day, yet the latter is clearly winter and the former often not.
Christmas Day falls right at the very start of winter and Easter is often still in March.
Christmas Day signals the start of Winter, not Mid Winter, Easter Day signals the start of Spring, not Mid Spring
The traditional interpretation of Megalithic structures is that they were built to mark the point at which Winter is starting to recede, so ancient peoples knew they were over the hump as far as stored food was concerned. I am not sure how true this is but it is certainly an elegant argument so I will respectfully disagree with you and continue to say that the Winter Solstice marks mid winter not the start.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Correct. The seasons are set by the cosmos and not by the regulations of any government agency - the so-called ‘meteorological definition‘ simply means that of the Met Office.
The Met Office was established in 1854 as a small department within the Board of Trade under Vice Admiral Robert FitzRoy as a service to mariners.
In 1780 the Societas Meteorologica Palatina (which became defunct in 1795), an early international organization for meteorology, defined seasons as groupings of three whole months as identified by the Gregorian calendar. Ever since, professional meteorologists all over the world have used this definition.[9] Therefore, for temperate areas in the northern hemisphere, spring begins on 1 March, summer on 1 June, autumn on 1 September, and winter on 1 December.
Your own link appears to go on to contradict that and in any case the seasons are set by the physics of the cosmos and not by meteorological groups for calendar convenience
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That's one definition but quite frankly there's no meteorological reason to define 20th December as not winter.
If you had thermal seasons, winter would run 12 Dec thru 12 March and so on, apparently. But, we don’t, so the only scientific option is astronomical seasons set by the immutable laws of physics.
The meteorological definition is also scientific as used by the Met whose literal job it is to deal with the weather etc more than anyone else.
All true, yet the seasons are nevertheless set by the cosmos rather than scientists seeking statistical convenience
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
Read Adam Rutherford's A Brief History of Everyone Who Ever Lived.
Everyone of largely European descent alove today is decsended from everyone who was both: alive in Europe over 1500 years ago and has living descendents.
So if you are of largely European descent and Boudicca has any living descendants at all, you are one of them.
The only unknown really is whether Boudicca has any living descendants but it reckoned that about 80% of people who lived in the past do have living descendants.
I reada book recently which argued the case that much of what is now Eastern England was largely Germanic-speaking at the time of the Roman invasion.
Who knows. The point is we* are all related to everyone who was alive in Europe 1500 years ago.
(*Western Europeans)
Everyone who has living descendants
No, everyone - but some will be great, great, great... etc. uncles, aunts and cousins.
If we go back far enough then I am related to my cats. I'm not sure the idea helps with anything.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Correct. The seasons are set by the cosmos and not by the regulations of any government agency - the so-called ‘meteorological definition‘ simply means that of the Met Office.
"Set by the cosmos"?
Is there some cosmic definition written in the stars? All definitions are man made not some immutable law of nature.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
I think of snowdrops as usually over by February (though not this year). Growing up in Devon I remember usually seeing them between Christmas and New Year's day.
Depends on the variety. There are hundreds of different varieties and some flower in the autumn. They are not native to the UK and are mainly from Southern and Eastern Europe and Anatolia.
The only reason I know this is one of my former science teachers and neighbours who sadly died a couple of years ago was a snowdrop fanatic and collected them as a hobby.
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
Read Adam Rutherford's A Brief History of Everyone Who Ever Lived.
Everyone of largely European descent alove today is decsended from everyone who was both: alive in Europe over 1500 years ago and has living descendents.
So if you are of largely European descent and Boudicca has any living descendants at all, you are one of them.
The only unknown really is whether Boudicca has any living descendants but it reckoned that about 80% of people who lived in the past do have living descendants.
I reada book recently which argued the case that much of what is now Eastern England was largely Germanic-speaking at the time of the Roman invasion.
Who knows. The point is we* are all related to everyone who was alive in Europe 1500 years ago.
(*Western Europeans)
Everyone who has living descendants
No, everyone - but some will be great, great, great... etc. uncles, aunts and cousins.
If we go back far enough then I am related to my cats. I'm not sure the idea helps with anything.
It helps with those pompous sorts who claim to be descended from William the conqueror and the like.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That's one definition but quite frankly there's no meteorological reason to define 20th December as not winter.
If you had thermal seasons, winter would run 12 Dec thru 12 March and so on, apparently. But, we don’t, so the only scientific option is astronomical seasons set by the immutable laws of physics.
You think the weather is governed by something other than the immutable laws of physics? They have progressed a bit since Kepler's day. Seasons matter to us because of what the weather and the ecosystem are doing (think why spring is called spring and fall, fall) and forcibly mapping them to something they don't map particularly well to because it is simpler that way is unhelpful. And given that you have been pointed to a good half dozen ways of defining seasons in this thread alone, all of them having presumably had merit to the people who adopted them, arbitrarily selecting one of them as Right Because I Say So looks a bit unadult.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
HYUFD is right for a change. It’s still winter. But spring is just around the corner!
This evening I’ve backed Cheltenham races not to go ahead at 10/1. The health service in Italy in the affected areas sounds like it is at crisis point. This country is likely to move from “Contain” to “Delay” fairly soon - maybe at tomorrow’s COBRA meeting? We need to flatten the curve so the NHS can cope. Will that mean cancelling large gatherings? If we decide to do this tomorrow Cheltenham will be cancelled. France has banned gatherings of more than 1000 people.
Looks absolutely nailed on to me. 10/1 is a fantastic price. My son is due to sit his Highers this year in April/ May. Even today he was working hard preparing for them. I just cannot see him being allowed to sit them.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
That's one definition but quite frankly there's no meteorological reason to define 20th December as not winter.
If you had thermal seasons, winter would run 12 Dec thru 12 March and so on, apparently. But, we don’t, so the only scientific option is astronomical seasons set by the immutable laws of physics.
The meteorological definition is also scientific as used by the Met whose literal job it is to deal with the weather etc more than anyone else.
All true, yet the seasons are nevertheless set by the cosmos rather than scientists seeking statistical convenience
No they're not. There's nothing in the cosmos that defines it. You may choose to define it based upon a cosmological date, but that has nothing to do with the seasons or physics it is a choice just like all other definitions.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
Snow in the Uk is more likely on Easter Day than Christmas Day, yet the latter is clearly winter and the former often not.
Christmas Day falls right at the very start of winter and Easter is often still in March.
Christmas Day signals the start of Winter, not Mid Winter, Easter Day signals the start of Spring, not Mid Spring
So I guess 'In the Bleak Midwinter ' isn't your favourite Christmas Carol?
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Correct. The seasons are set by the cosmos and not by the regulations of any government agency - the so-called ‘meteorological definition‘ simply means that of the Met Office.
"Set by the cosmos"?
Is there some cosmic definition written in the stars? All definitions are man made not some immutable law of nature.
That is incorrect when it comes to the seasons. The equinoxes and solstices are the transitions between the seasons, everything else is a construct.
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
Snow in the Uk is more likely on Easter Day than Christmas Day, yet the latter is clearly winter and the former often not.
Christmas Day falls right at the very start of winter and Easter is often still in March.
Christmas Day signals the start of Winter, not Mid Winter, Easter Day signals the start of Spring, not Mid Spring
My father, a farmer, used to say: "Half of the straw and half of the hay for half of the winter after Candlemas day"
Candlemas is the 2nd of Feb, known as Groundhog Day in the States.
Have I missed something or has the EU been conspicuously silent on the Covid 19 crisis? If so surely that has to be something of a disappointment in the light of clear failings in the lack of co-ordination among different European countries. Almost as poor as the US in this instance.
The US is one nation, perhaps you have so convinced yourself of the United States of Europe schtick that you actually believe that's what it is. Out of interest What do you believe that the EU should be doing or that individual countries aren't already doing themselves?
1. Co-ordination of strategy across the membership - re travel advice/quarantine measures , etc., etc. 2. Rapid relaxation of fiscal rules for members suffering the most. 3. Medical support across the piste
Re: your silly point about my beliefs I voted remain, live in Spain and have long wondered why healthcare has been left out as a competency. Those beliefs notwithstanding I am seriously disappointed that the organisation has been conspicuous by its absence thus far.
Boudicca was not English, but it's probable that most inhabitants of Norfolk and Suffolk today have Icenian ancestors. And, they would undoubtedly see themselves as English.
There is little evidence for that. Most inhabitants of Norfolk today are not descendants of Icenians, as judged by their names of the place names of the towns that they built. There is little or no discernible Celtic influence.
The descendants of the Icenians are much further West, because waves of invasion pushed them there. The descendents will be in Wales or the West Country.
If you believe Boudicca was English, then you believe Pythagoras was Italian, Euclid & Aristarchus were Egyptian and Epicurus & Diogenes were Turkish.
These philosophers are all associated with Sicily or Alexandria or present-day Turkey. But they were Greek.
Boudicca was Welsh.
It’s a conundrum. Almost all archaeologists reject the notion that there was a large-scale population transfer of Anglo-Saxons that physically drove the Romano-British/proto-Welsh from the lowlands, rather than they formed a new ruling class on top of the existing population.
Yet as others have said there is a dearth of Celtic placenames in south and east England and next to no Brythonic loanwords in Anglo-Saxon or indeed modern English, so the putative Anglo-Saxon “ruling class” did a far better job of rooting out the general population’s language than the Romans did, or indeed the Normans, who really did form just a ruling class, did to the Anglo-Saxons. Then we have placenames like “Walton” (“foreigner settlement”) which suggest that remnant British populations did exist but lived to some degree separate from the Anglo-Saxons.
Genetics doesn’t resolve the issue either: I’m not super up to date on the latest research but what I recall is that while the lowland “English” population is somewhat distinct from the upland “Celtic” population it’s not particularly close to the regions on the Continent that the Anglo-Saxons hailed from, and probably reflects a much older set of population movements.
In the North East of the US, plenty of Native American names survive in geographical features or place names, even though the Indian tribes were annihilated or pushed further West.
There are very few names of Celtic origin in East Anglia.
If we look at the evidence of placenames, I think it shows that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of what is now the East of England was one of incredible violence and fury -- the Welshness was obliterated, far more so than Native American names were obliterated in the US.
England is the land of a terrible genocide.
That theory is about fifty years out of date. It was discredited even when i studied Anglo Saxon history thirty five years ago.
What theory?
I merely made an assertion about place names.
If you have evidence, present it, rather than invoice the Papal Infallability of IanB2's teachers thirty-five years ago.
Certainly not infallible. And my notes are in a box somewhere in the loft.
There’s no right answer, given the inadequacy of the evidence. Wikipedia has a reasonable article with links to a stack of citations. Here’s part of its summary:
However, another view, the most widely accepted among 21st century scholars, is that the migrants were fewer, possibly centred on a warrior elite. This hypothesis suggests that the incomers, having achieved a position of political and social dominance, initiated a process of acculturation by the natives to their language and material culture, and intermarried with them to a significant degree. Archaeologists have found that settlement patterns and land use show no clear break with the Romano-British past, though there were marked changes in material culture. This view predicts that the ancestry of the people of Anglo-Saxon and modern England would be largely derived from the native Romano-British. The uncertain results of genetic studies have tended to support both a predominant amount of native British Celtic ancestry and a significant continental contribution resulting from Germanic immigration.
Yes, that is the accepted view, and the archaeology tends to support it. I still have yet to come across a convincing explanation of how there is next to no Brythonic legacy in the English language or SE English placenames though. If the Anglo-Saxon elite did eradicate the proto-Welsh language from their subject population they managed to do it to a degree absolutely unprecedented in any other place or time I can think of.
Read Adam Rutherford's A Brief History of Everyone Who Ever Lived.
Everyone of largely European descent alove today is decsended from everyone who was both: alive in Europe over 1500 years ago and has living descendents.
So if you are of largely European descent and Boudicca has any living descendants at all, you are one of them.
The only unknown really is whether Boudicca has any living descendants but it reckoned that about 80% of people who lived in the past do have living descendants.
I reada book recently which argued the case that much of what is now Eastern England was largely Germanic-speaking at the time of the Roman invasion.
Who knows. The point is we* are all related to everyone who was alive in Europe 1500 years ago.
(*Western Europeans)
Everyone who has living descendants
No, everyone - but some will be great, great, great... etc. uncles, aunts and cousins.
Sorry I misread you. But in that sense everyone is related to everyone at any time in the past, aren't they?
There was some talk that the weather might start to warm up in March to help dissipate the virus, but so far it is an average of 1C colder than in February, so no respite there.
It is still Winter until March 20th
So you are one of those crazy people who thinks that midsummers day is the first day of summer.
1st of March is the start of Spring.
Winter Started on 21st December and Spring starts with the Spring equinox on 20th March
Bingo! So winter starts on midwinters day.
What pisses me off is November; it isn't winter by any official definition but it obviously is, really. So at least a third of the year is winter, or might as well be.
November is the height of autumn, not winter
In Scandinavia, winter in one tradition begins on 14 October and ends on the last day of February.
In Celtic nations such as Ireland (using the Irish calendar) and in Scandinavia, the winter solstice is traditionally considered as midwinter, with the winter season beginning 1 November, on All Hallows, or Samhain. Winter ends and spring begins on Imbolc, or Candlemas, which is 1 or 2 February.
Scandinavia sounds about right to me. All the autumnal things (harvest and leaf fall) have happened by 1 November. And some spring things (snowdrops, wild cherry blossom) happen in February.
You don't generally get snow in November, however you often still get snowfall in March
Snow in the Uk is more likely on Easter Day than Christmas Day, yet the latter is clearly winter and the former often not.
Christmas Day falls right at the very start of winter and Easter is often still in March.
Christmas Day signals the start of Winter, not Mid Winter, Easter Day signals the start of Spring, not Mid Spring
So I guess 'In the Bleak Midwinter ' isn't your favourite Christmas Carol?
In the 'Relatively Mild Early Winter' does not have quite the same ring to it!
This evening I’ve backed Cheltenham races not to go ahead at 10/1. The health service in Italy in the affected areas sounds like it is at crisis point. This country is likely to move from “Contain” to “Delay” fairly soon - maybe at tomorrow’s COBRA meeting? We need to flatten the curve so the NHS can cope. Will that mean cancelling large gatherings? If we decide to do this tomorrow Cheltenham will be cancelled. France has banned gatherings of more than 1000 people.
Looks absolutely nailed on to me. 10/1 is a fantastic price. My son is due to sit his Highers this year in April/ May. Even today he was working hard preparing for them. I just cannot see him being allowed to sit them.
Is there actually a massive risk if exam desks are just spaced out further? On a relative scale of risk compared to other activities looks pretty low to me. The problem with large gatherings is close contact, people touching each other or common surfaces etc etc. Not a particular issue within an exam hall for a few hours with precautions taken.
This evening I’ve backed Cheltenham races not to go ahead at 10/1. The health service in Italy in the affected areas sounds like it is at crisis point. This country is likely to move from “Contain” to “Delay” fairly soon - maybe at tomorrow’s COBRA meeting? We need to flatten the curve so the NHS can cope. Will that mean cancelling large gatherings? If we decide to do this tomorrow Cheltenham will be cancelled. France has banned gatherings of more than 1000 people.
Looks absolutely nailed on to me. 10/1 is a fantastic price. My son is due to sit his Highers this year in April/ May. Even today he was working hard preparing for them. I just cannot see him being allowed to sit them.
Yes 10/1 seems a great price. I still maintain that the tube will have to close before sports meetings but maybe it will plus that's a good price.
If course I bloody well hope it's not cancelled but we shall see.
This evening I’ve backed Cheltenham races not to go ahead at 10/1. The health service in Italy in the affected areas sounds like it is at crisis point. This country is likely to move from “Contain” to “Delay” fairly soon - maybe at tomorrow’s COBRA meeting? We need to flatten the curve so the NHS can cope. Will that mean cancelling large gatherings? If we decide to do this tomorrow Cheltenham will be cancelled. France has banned gatherings of more than 1000 people.
Looks absolutely nailed on to me. 10/1 is a fantastic price. My son is due to sit his Highers this year in April/ May. Even today he was working hard preparing for them. I just cannot see him being allowed to sit them.
Is there actually a massive risk if exam desks are just spaced out further? On a relative scale of risk compared to other activities looks pretty low to me. The problem with large gatherings is close contact, people touching each other or common surfaces etc etc. Not a particular issue within an exam hall for a few hours with precautions taken.
There is the small matter of them attending classes, completing the course etc. I think our schools will be shut within 3 weeks.
Comments
Relying on tradition doesn't help you because your definition certainly wasn't widely used in times medieval, for example, when the feast of St Martin on November 11th marked the start of winter.
- the so-called ‘meteorological definition‘ simply means that of the Met Office.
Hubert Lamb had his early winter season starting on November 20th.
http://www.weathercast.co.uk/nc/weather-news/news/article/the_four_seasons.html
Or do you have some other organisation you want to be nationalistic about?
It is probable that the hill forts were not used as centres of population but as places of retreat.
So in Ancaster the Middle Iron Age settlement was on a terrace just above the bottom of the valley and in the late Iron Age the settlement moved down onto the valley bottom. This was several hundred years before the Romans arrived. There is a near by Iron Age hill fort at Honnington Camp but this shows no indications of being used as a settlement and only as a place of retreat.
This is a similar pattern seen right across England.
There may be a case for reorganizing health care systems, but at present we have to work with existing structures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Met_Office
In 1780 the Societas Meteorologica Palatina (which became defunct in 1795), an early international organization for meteorology, defined seasons as groupings of three whole months as identified by the Gregorian calendar. Ever since, professional meteorologists all over the world have used this definition.[9] Therefore, for temperate areas in the northern hemisphere, spring begins on 1 March, summer on 1 June, autumn on 1 September, and winter on 1 December.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season
Pwned.
The quote from the recent Cobra TV series is quite apt in this situation.
We voted to leave the EU, not the human race.
Christmas Day signals the start of Winter, not Mid Winter, Easter Day signals the start of Spring, not Mid Spring
https://twitter.com/behrooz_hm/status/1236546012715446272
https://twitter.com/travelgov/status/1236739608794275846?s=21
Is there some cosmic definition written in the stars? All definitions are man made not some immutable law of nature.
The only reason I know this is one of my former science teachers and neighbours who sadly died a couple of years ago was a snowdrop fanatic and collected them as a hobby.
It’s still winter. But spring is just around the corner!
It seems that while the deaths are amongst the older ages, in Italy the Median age for COVID19 cases in ICU is 49.
My father, a farmer, used to say:
"Half of the straw and half of the hay for half of the winter after Candlemas day"
Candlemas is the 2nd of Feb, known as Groundhog Day in the States.
2. Rapid relaxation of fiscal rules for members suffering the most.
3. Medical support across the piste
Re: your silly point about my beliefs I voted remain, live in Spain and have long wondered why healthcare has been left out as a competency. Those beliefs notwithstanding I am seriously disappointed that the organisation has been conspicuous by its absence thus far.
Edit: sorry I now see what you are saying. Yes, agreed.
Cummings is clearly involved in the virus response.
If course I bloody well hope it's not cancelled but we shall see.