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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » From a 4.9% betting chance to 75% one in just nine days – Bide

SystemSystem Posts: 11,733
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » From a 4.9% betting chance to 75% one in just nine days – Biden’s extraordinary change of fortune

It was just three days before Super Tuesday that Mayor Pete made the dramatic move that has totally changed the Democratic nomination race and undermined the one who looked as though he was running away with it – Bernie Sanders. Looking back and seeing what happened overnight in the 14 primaries almost everybody totally underestimated the impact.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    Never in doubt.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,766
    edited March 2020
    How awesome is Biden, didn’t win Iowa or New Hampshire and will be the nominee.

    I was assured he wouldn't get the nomination if he didn't win at least one of those two states.
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    Buttigieg for Veep?
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    Good, concise and in-focus header.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,610
    Third!
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Praise be to Buttigieg!
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,117

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    Surely will have to be a woman?

    Disclaimer: obviously it doesn’t have to be, but practically...

    Warren?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,133
    edited March 2020
    So, who’ll admit to getting that 21 or 22 on Biden on 24th Feb?
  • Options

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    Surely will have to be a woman?

    Disclaimer: obviously it doesn’t have to be, but practically...

    Warren?
    Clinton?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Ideal scenario: Pete for Veep, Biden defeats Trump, 25th Amendment exercised when Biden's mental decline becomes too serious.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    Surely will have to be a woman?

    Disclaimer: obviously it doesn’t have to be, but practically...

    Warren?
    Clinton?
    QTWAIHN!
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,740

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    Surely will have to be a woman?

    Disclaimer: obviously it doesn’t have to be, but practically...

    Warren?
    Clinton?
    Chelsea?
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    edited March 2020
    deleted AP-scepticism.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Bog roll rationing in Australia only four per person
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,133
    Quincel said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, who’ll admit to getting that 21 or 22 on Biden on 24th Feb?

    If only all my bets were this good!


    Ooh, well done you! :)

    He’s 1.31 now.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,197

    Ideal scenario: Pete for Veep, Biden defeats Trump, 25th Amendment exercised when Biden's mental decline becomes too serious.

    Do you remember all the mockery and vilification of Ronald Reagan for his supposed lack of mental acuity? Reagan! - the best of the post-war bunch.
    Unfortunately Biden is not in the same league, and whether compos mentis or not he comes over as rather shallow and boorish. You have to pity the US, a great country no longer blessed with leaders who are up to the job.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,291
    It does illustrate why US politics is consistently more fun to bet on than ours.

    (Though, TBF, our own PM has seen similar dramatic changes of fortune over the last few years, even if not quite so abrupt.)
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,639

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    I'm on at 20/1

    But likely to be a woman.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,639
    Sandpit said:

    Quincel said:

    Sandpit said:

    So, who’ll admit to getting that 21 or 22 on Biden on 24th Feb?

    If only all my bets were this good!


    Ooh, well done you! :)

    He’s 1.31 now.
    Impressive bet. I hovered over those kind of numbers a few days ago, but held back fearing it was really over for Biden.

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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743
    Sandpit said:

    So, who’ll admit to getting that 21 or 22 on Biden on 24th Feb?

    Best I can say is I got £25 on @ 14/1 on Biden for next president with BetVictor. 2/1 now.

    I think that the most outstanding bet at the moment is to Lay Trump at 1.75 or thereabouts. I`d make him slightly odds against. I`m not even totally convinced that he will run. Virus and markets are going against him.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,291

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    I'm on at 20/1

    But likely to be a woman.
    Abrams or Harris ?
    Both available at 1000/1 for President....*cough*
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743
    Nigelb said:
    I don`t think this is totally crazy. I think that that the damage the virus is doing is the mass panic it is creating which IMO is way out of proportion to the physical effects of the virus.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948
    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:
    I don`t think this is totally crazy. I think that that the damage the virus is doing is the mass panic it is creating which IMO is way out of proportion to the physical effects of the virus.
    Positive thinking is better than negative thinking. It doesnt seem top of the list of recommended responses but could be somewhere near the end of the top 10.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:
    I don`t think this is totally crazy. I think that that the damage the virus is doing is the mass panic it is creating which IMO is way out of proportion to the physical effects of the virus.
    "Keep calm and carry on" didn't mean ignore the threat and take no precautions, it just meant don't panic but do what is needed.

    America from the top down is trying to ignore the issue and hope it blows past them. Praying won't be a solution.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I hope Bloomberg stays above 15% in California.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,347

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Wakefield's infamous paper linking MMR with autism, and the accompanying press conference, occurred in 1998. Even if you didn't know he was an actual fraud in 2004, the scientific consensus against his 'findings' was massive by that time. Unfortunately, too many uniformed journalists presented him as a Galileo figure up until, and even beyond, his exposure as a crook.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743

    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:
    I don`t think this is totally crazy. I think that that the damage the virus is doing is the mass panic it is creating which IMO is way out of proportion to the physical effects of the virus.
    "Keep calm and carry on" didn't mean ignore the threat and take no precautions, it just meant don't panic but do what is needed.

    America from the top down is trying to ignore the issue and hope it blows past them. Praying won't be a solution.
    Of course praying is not this issue. It`s about thinking about the issue in a rational way in accord with the evidence. This IMO does not warrant the mass panic we are experiencing.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959

    I hope Bloomberg stays above 15% in California.

    Doubt he will, if the vote yet to be counted is mostly late/election day postal votes. where he's probably done much worse than the earlier vote which has been counted already.

    Wonder if Biden might close the gap on Sanders a bit. Not enough to win, but a 5-10% gap is very different to a big Sanders win.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,807
    One word for those fretting about the impending bog roll crisis:

    Bidet
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    The campaign's design director was especially dark, writing: “This is a product of a sad drunk brain and a lifetime of sci-fi, but I keep thinking about the Coronavirus and fiction universe in which it turn us all into zombies and a small group of heroes try to go back in time to elect Warren because she was the only one with a plan.”

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/04/elizabeth-warren-super-tuesday-wipeout-120705
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:
    I don`t think this is totally crazy. I think that that the damage the virus is doing is the mass panic it is creating which IMO is way out of proportion to the physical effects of the virus.
    "Keep calm and carry on" didn't mean ignore the threat and take no precautions, it just meant don't panic but do what is needed.

    America from the top down is trying to ignore the issue and hope it blows past them. Praying won't be a solution.
    Of course praying is not this issue. It`s about thinking about the issue in a rational way in accord with the evidence. This IMO does not warrant the mass panic we are experiencing.
    Our government isn't panicking it is acting calmly and rationally rejecting the mass hysteria and panicky overreactions of people like eadric on this board.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948
    nichomar said:

    Bog roll rationing in Australia only four per person

    What do they do with the multipacks of 9?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,610
    edited March 2020

    nichomar said:

    Bog roll rationing in Australia only four per person

    My brother in law has hoarded loo roll for the 30 years that I’ve known him. He’s going to be insufferably smug now.
    Wow that's a lot of toilet paper.

    How long is he expecting the shortage to last for??
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743
    The Republican National Convention is in August. Is it possible that another Republican candidate could challenge Trump for the nomination?

    I`ve had a hunch for a while, and it has deepened recently, that Trump may be challenged, or may choose not to run. He can be Laid on BF at a low-risk 1.06.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Wakefield's infamous paper linking MMR with autism, and the accompanying press conference, occurred in 1998. Even if you didn't know he was an actual fraud in 2004, the scientific consensus against his 'findings' was massive by that time. Unfortunately, too many uniformed journalists presented him as a Galileo figure up until, and even beyond, his exposure as a crook.
    Indeed I 100% agree. But the GMC was still accepting him as a Doctor, the Lancet only retracted the findings in 2004 (I don't know whether that was before or after the 2004 article quoted) etc

    It was silly but somewhat understandable to believe Doctor Wakefield in 2004 (especially before the Lancet retracted his findings that year).

    It is stupid beyond all belief to believe the fraudulent struck off Andrew Wakefield in 2020.
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    So Starmer wins.

    My view is he immediately attempts to cultivate a new left/centre left alliance and aims for Canterbury type seats over Blythe Valley.

    At worst he sets up lots of targets for 2029 as per Kinnock.

    I think Johnson will be very unpopular by 2024. It will be a race of who is hated the least IMHO.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    Stocky said:

    The Republican National Convention is in August. Is it possible that another Republican candidate could challenge Trump for the nomination?

    I`ve had a hunch for a while, and it has deepened recently, that Trump may be challenged, or may choose not to run. He can be Laid on BF at a low-risk 1.06.

    Interesting, why has it deepened recently? I wondered if he might face a real challenger but have dismissed the idea for the last few months.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:
    I don`t think this is totally crazy. I think that that the damage the virus is doing is the mass panic it is creating which IMO is way out of proportion to the physical effects of the virus.
    "Keep calm and carry on" didn't mean ignore the threat and take no precautions, it just meant don't panic but do what is needed.

    America from the top down is trying to ignore the issue and hope it blows past them. Praying won't be a solution.
    Of course praying is not this issue. It`s about thinking about the issue in a rational way in accord with the evidence. This IMO does not warrant the mass panic we are experiencing.
    Our government isn't panicking it is acting calmly and rationally rejecting the mass hysteria and panicky overreactions of people like eadric on this board.
    I think we may be misundertanding each other. I agree with you. Our government has responded correctly in my view.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    What demographic does he add? If he would win blue collar votes in the Midwest it may help, but that's not his base.

    Biden's ideal pick would probably be a Latino woman. But absent any realistic chance of that he could go for Beto.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Wakefield's infamous paper linking MMR with autism, and the accompanying press conference, occurred in 1998. Even if you didn't know he was an actual fraud in 2004, the scientific consensus against his 'findings' was massive by that time. Unfortunately, too many uniformed journalists presented him as a Galileo figure up until, and even beyond, his exposure as a crook.
    Indeed I 100% agree. But the GMC was still accepting him as a Doctor, the Lancet only retracted the findings in 2004 (I don't know whether that was before or after the 2004 article quoted) etc

    It was silly but somewhat understandable to believe Doctor Wakefield in 2004 (especially before the Lancet retracted his findings that year).

    It is stupid beyond all belief to believe the fraudulent struck off Andrew Wakefield in 2020.
    Yes but everyone knows scientists are all lying lefties, as seen in Climategate and revealed by retired Tory politicians and right-leaning columnists.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    nichomar said:

    Bog roll rationing in Australia only four per person

    What do they do with the multipacks of 9?
    I thought I had bought a 16 pack of rolls from Amazon a few years ago as I was doing a shop there and it was on offer and I wasn't paying too much attention.

    When it was delivered I received a case of the 16 packs of rolls. I think from memory perhaps half a dozen packs in the case. Considered sending it back, but worked out it was much cheaper per roll than buying it normally and it had no expiry date so kept it. Gone through it all now but that would have been handy in a "crisis" like this LOL.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    edited March 2020

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    What demographic does he add? If he would win blue collar votes in the Midwest it may help, but that's not his base.

    Biden's ideal pick would probably be a Latino woman. But absent any realistic chance of that he could go for Beto.
    Same question: what does Beto add? My guess is when the veep pick is announced there will be a race to google the representative for the Great State of Wazoo. Bonus smart-arse points for those who remember which law exam that state featured in.
    Spoiler: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/files/conlaw3.obama.1996.fall.pdf
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,535

    My brother in law has hoarded loo roll for the 30 years that I’ve known him. He’s going to be insufferably smug now.

    Yes, what a result. Especially if it's quilted.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Wakefield's infamous paper linking MMR with autism, and the accompanying press conference, occurred in 1998. Even if you didn't know he was an actual fraud in 2004, the scientific consensus against his 'findings' was massive by that time. Unfortunately, too many uniformed journalists presented him as a Galileo figure up until, and even beyond, his exposure as a crook.
    Indeed I 100% agree. But the GMC was still accepting him as a Doctor, the Lancet only retracted the findings in 2004 (I don't know whether that was before or after the 2004 article quoted) etc

    It was silly but somewhat understandable to believe Doctor Wakefield in 2004 (especially before the Lancet retracted his findings that year).

    It is stupid beyond all belief to believe the fraudulent struck off Andrew Wakefield in 2020.
    Yes but everyone knows scientists are all lying lefties, as seen in Climategate and revealed by retired Tory politicians and right-leaning columnists.
    I know you're being sarcastic but I don't believe that, I'm firmly pro-science.

    And my point is if one of those columnists you refer to is criticising anti-vaxxers today in 2020 then I 100% back that, even if they were gullible enough to fall for Andrew Wakefield's fraud before it was revealed to be fraud.

    Being willing to acknowledge you were wrong in the past is a strength not a weakness.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    Veep picks: wasn't there a theory you can predict them by counting wikipedia edits?
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743
    edited March 2020
    Quincel said:

    Stocky said:

    The Republican National Convention is in August. Is it possible that another Republican candidate could challenge Trump for the nomination?

    I`ve had a hunch for a while, and it has deepened recently, that Trump may be challenged, or may choose not to run. He can be Laid on BF at a low-risk 1.06.

    Interesting, why has it deepened recently? I wondered if he might face a real challenger but have dismissed the idea for the last few months.
    I think a challenger is unlikely, but wonder whether it is (in theory) possible.

    More likely he will not run. Trump`s mind-set is that he doesn`t fight battles he thinks he may not win. Internal polling may guide him. There is also a possible health issue. Through turnout shifts alone the Dems have got a big advantage this time and the virus and economic/market factors will to some extent work against Trump (possibly to a large extent).

    However, the Reps have a formidable (and dodgy and ruthless) social media operation. But I wonder whether they exhausted this potential last time.

    In summary, I`m a big Layer of Trump for next president - whoever the Dems pick. But especially if they go for Biden, who will get the black vote out.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959

    nichomar said:

    Bog roll rationing in Australia only four per person

    What do they do with the multipacks of 9?
    I thought I had bought a 16 pack of rolls from Amazon a few years ago as I was doing a shop there and it was on offer and I wasn't paying too much attention.

    When it was delivered I received a case of the 16 packs of rolls. I think from memory perhaps half a dozen packs in the case. Considered sending it back, but worked out it was much cheaper per roll than buying it normally and it had no expiry date so kept it. Gone through it all now but that would have been handy in a "crisis" like this LOL.
    I just buy loo roll in online shops every few months in packs of 24. Far cheaper and it's not hard to store (it's bulky but light, so putting it on the top of cupboards isn't too hard). Got about 50 rolls at the moment for a house of 4 people.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,857
    Amazingly Clinton is now in to 40/1

    That’s absolutely barmy.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    Stocky said:

    Quincel said:

    Stocky said:

    The Republican National Convention is in August. Is it possible that another Republican candidate could challenge Trump for the nomination?

    I`ve had a hunch for a while, and it has deepened recently, that Trump may be challenged, or may choose not to run. He can be Laid on BF at a low-risk 1.06.

    Interesting, why has it deepened recently? I wondered if he might face a real challenger but have dismissed the idea for the last few months.
    I think a challenger is unlikely, but wonder whether it is (in theory) possible.

    More likely he will not run. Trump`s mind-set is that he doesn`t fight battles he thinks he may not win. Internal polling may guide him. There is also a possible health issue. Through turnout shifts alone the Dems have got a big advantage this time and the virus and economic/market factors will to some extent work against Trump (possibly to a large extent).

    However, the Reps have a formidable (and dodgy and ruthless) social media operation. But I wonder whether they have exhausted this potential last time.

    In summary, I`m a big seller of Trump for next president - whoever the Dems pick. But especially if they go for Biden, who will get the black vote out.
    I see this logic, but I figured that if he was considering not running then he would send out test balloons in the media (especially after the midterms). So while you could be right I've concluded that his ego means he either won't back down or won't believe he won't win.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Quincel said:

    nichomar said:

    Bog roll rationing in Australia only four per person

    What do they do with the multipacks of 9?
    I thought I had bought a 16 pack of rolls from Amazon a few years ago as I was doing a shop there and it was on offer and I wasn't paying too much attention.

    When it was delivered I received a case of the 16 packs of rolls. I think from memory perhaps half a dozen packs in the case. Considered sending it back, but worked out it was much cheaper per roll than buying it normally and it had no expiry date so kept it. Gone through it all now but that would have been handy in a "crisis" like this LOL.
    I just buy loo roll in online shops every few months in packs of 24. Far cheaper and it's not hard to store (it's bulky but light, so putting it on the top of cupboards isn't too hard). Got about 50 rolls at the moment for a house of 4 people.
    Indeed that's what I had meant to do, not order a case of those packs lol.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743
    Quincel said:

    Stocky said:

    Quincel said:

    Stocky said:

    The Republican National Convention is in August. Is it possible that another Republican candidate could challenge Trump for the nomination?

    I`ve had a hunch for a while, and it has deepened recently, that Trump may be challenged, or may choose not to run. He can be Laid on BF at a low-risk 1.06.

    Interesting, why has it deepened recently? I wondered if he might face a real challenger but have dismissed the idea for the last few months.
    I think a challenger is unlikely, but wonder whether it is (in theory) possible.

    More likely he will not run. Trump`s mind-set is that he doesn`t fight battles he thinks he may not win. Internal polling may guide him. There is also a possible health issue. Through turnout shifts alone the Dems have got a big advantage this time and the virus and economic/market factors will to some extent work against Trump (possibly to a large extent).

    However, the Reps have a formidable (and dodgy and ruthless) social media operation. But I wonder whether they have exhausted this potential last time.

    In summary, I`m a big seller of Trump for next president - whoever the Dems pick. But especially if they go for Biden, who will get the black vote out.
    I see this logic, but I figured that if he was considering not running then he would send out test balloons in the media (especially after the midterms). So while you could be right I've concluded that his ego means he either won't back down or won't believe he won't win.
    I suppose if we break it down, I`m saying that the chance of him running is in my view 7/10 and the chance of him winning if he does run is 4/10. In combination this does not support the odds-on position he holds. Hence I`m laying.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Would your travel insurance pay out if you had to self isolate? How would you prove you had to isolate?
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Perhaps, and whisper it quietly, views change. It’s the people who never change their views that we should be more suspicious of. It’s hard to see better evidence of a closed mind.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,857
    Bog roll is nice to have but way down my essential list of survival items when it comes to it.

    If you’re quarantined at home then you can just have a shower or bath.

    And, in the very unlikely event the water supply fails (you just need a few engineers in a few fairly isolated pumping and treatment stations and a team of leak fixers - it isn’t a high risk coronavirus occupation) you’ll have bigger fish to fry.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743
    nichomar said:

    Would your travel insurance pay out if you had to self isolate? How would you prove you had to isolate?

    "Had to self isolate"? What do you mean? If the government were not allowing you to travel then yes the insurance would pay out. If it was merely advisory (as it is now) then it wouldn`t.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    nichomar said:

    Would your travel insurance pay out if you had to self isolate? How would you prove you had to isolate?

    Depends on the wording of your policy but the ones I read recently covered cancellation if you were told to quarantine by medical authorities, so a doctor's letter telling you to self-isolate may be enough.
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    As I mentioned last night. Cases in Cumbria. The nhs have confirmed a nurse has been diagnosed. But self isolated returning from Italy.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Is this a wind up? The South African government health department have retweeted a parody account’s joke about Coronavirus and left it up for a day

    Is it really the SA DofH?





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    Quincel said:

    nichomar said:

    Bog roll rationing in Australia only four per person

    What do they do with the multipacks of 9?
    I thought I had bought a 16 pack of rolls from Amazon a few years ago as I was doing a shop there and it was on offer and I wasn't paying too much attention.

    When it was delivered I received a case of the 16 packs of rolls. I think from memory perhaps half a dozen packs in the case. Considered sending it back, but worked out it was much cheaper per roll than buying it normally and it had no expiry date so kept it. Gone through it all now but that would have been handy in a "crisis" like this LOL.
    I just buy loo roll in online shops every few months in packs of 24. Far cheaper and it's not hard to store (it's bulky but light, so putting it on the top of cupboards isn't too hard). Got about 50 rolls at the moment for a house of 4 people.
    My wife would go through that in two weeks. Can’t even work out how..
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Amazingly Clinton is now in to 40/1

    That’s absolutely barmy.

    A decrepit Biden is going to be the Democrat candidate. That is also absolutely barmy.
  • Options

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Wakefield's infamous paper linking MMR with autism, and the accompanying press conference, occurred in 1998. Even if you didn't know he was an actual fraud in 2004, the scientific consensus against his 'findings' was massive by that time. Unfortunately, too many uniformed journalists presented him as a Galileo figure up until, and even beyond, his exposure as a crook.
    Indeed I 100% agree. But the GMC was still accepting him as a Doctor, the Lancet only retracted the findings in 2004 (I don't know whether that was before or after the 2004 article quoted) etc

    It was silly but somewhat understandable to believe Doctor Wakefield in 2004 (especially before the Lancet retracted his findings that year).

    It is stupid beyond all belief to believe the fraudulent struck off Andrew Wakefield in 2020.
    Yes but everyone knows scientists are all lying lefties, as seen in Climategate and revealed by retired Tory politicians and right-leaning columnists.
    I know you're being sarcastic but I don't believe that, I'm firmly pro-science.

    And my point is if one of those columnists you refer to is criticising anti-vaxxers today in 2020 then I 100% back that, even if they were gullible enough to fall for Andrew Wakefield's fraud before it was revealed to be fraud.

    Being willing to acknowledge you were wrong in the past is a strength not a weakness.
    And just because you might believe that climate change might be happening, doesn’t mean you have to endorse the shocking deceptions that climategate exposed.
  • Options
    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited March 2020

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    What demographic does he add? If he would win blue collar votes in the Midwest it may help, but that's not his base.

    Biden's ideal pick would probably be a Latino woman. But absent any realistic chance of that he could go for Beto.
    Same question: what does Beto add? My guess is when the veep pick is announced there will be a race to google the representative for the Great State of Wazoo. Bonus smart-arse points for those who remember which law exam that state featured in.
    Spoiler: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/files/conlaw3.obama.1996.fall.pdf
    Hey, as I said the Dems don't have much to work with.

    Beto has much more history working on the Latino vote, and could take charge of that push. Although in many ways he's a moderate, he's not totally hated by the Left. Also someone from outside the North/Northeast.

    VP picks are rarely people who could overshadow the president.

    The alternatives seem to bring less.

    Biden has Black support so why pick Abrams? Besides she's trumpeted as a rising star, VP is not the ideal position to advance from.

    Biden eats the Butt/Klob vote so no need for them.

    Warren? Olive branch to the Left maybe, but she's ambitious and would not be controllable.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,535
    Disappointed it's not going to be Bernie. Biden will doubtless beat Trump - which let's face it is the main thing - but IMO Bernie would have done so too. President Sanders could have been iconic and the necessary game-changer for a country so wealthy and powerful yet with such deeply offensive levels of poverty and inequality. Change is coming - but not quite yet.

    That said, Biden is OK. And compared to the individual he will replace he is the Second Coming. So, yes, I'm totally behind him now. Whatever it takes, including the right medication. C'mon Joe!
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    isam said:

    Is this a wind up? The South African government health department have retweeted a parody account’s joke about Coronavirus and left it up for a day

    Is it really the SA DofH?

    Nothing surprises me about South Africa anymore.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,610
    nichomar said:

    Would your travel insurance pay out if you had to self isolate? How would you prove you had to isolate?

    There are answers to a lot of questions like that on the moneysavingexpert website
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,248
    edited March 2020

    Seems to me that the government’s advice since Monday has vindicated Eadric. Sure, they were a bit more sober but the underlying message was the same. Containment is nearing an end, a very big proportion of the population will end up catching the virus until herd immunity kicks in and on the best available data, this will cause a pretty unthinkable amount of critical care cases and deaths.

    Interesting that the Singapore govt also gave a more negative message to its public today, telling them that the small handful of daily cases “may not be normal” and to expect a potentially significant increase, because they cannot close the country to foreign travellers indefinitely.

    Meanwhile the Chinese ambassador to UN is talking in terms of “victory”...

    The glimmer as I see it is that the mortality rate may be far lower and infection rate higher than they are supposing. The more I read of the symptoms, the more convinced I am that my family and I might have had it here in Sing. But none of us were tested because apart from my son who recovered quickly, we didn’t have a fever and hadn’t been to China. We were instead told to self isolate and I had to keep going back every 2-3 days for a progress check, since my symptoms were worst.

    I now read that the newest data indicate that fever is only prevalent in 85% of cases. And potentially fewer, if having a fever has been a typical hurdle to meet before being tested. Yet I had pretty much every other symptom of mild infection. Chest pain, awful breathlessness, fatigue, persistent shallow cough, initial sore throat etc... But I’ll probably never know now.

    The data from the Diamond Princess should give some encouragement too. A ship of old people and still only 6 deaths out of 705 cases. Sure, lots of cases remain unresolved but this is not at the 8-10% end of the spectrum one might expect given the probable demographics.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,340

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Wakefield's infamous paper linking MMR with autism, and the accompanying press conference, occurred in 1998. Even if you didn't know he was an actual fraud in 2004, the scientific consensus against his 'findings' was massive by that time. Unfortunately, too many uniformed journalists presented him as a Galileo figure up until, and even beyond, his exposure as a crook.
    Indeed I 100% agree. But the GMC was still accepting him as a Doctor, the Lancet only retracted the findings in 2004 (I don't know whether that was before or after the 2004 article quoted) etc

    It was silly but somewhat understandable to believe Doctor Wakefield in 2004 (especially before the Lancet retracted his findings that year).

    It is stupid beyond all belief to believe the fraudulent struck off Andrew Wakefield in 2020.
    Yes but everyone knows scientists are all lying lefties, as seen in Climategate and revealed by retired Tory politicians and right-leaning columnists.
    I know you're being sarcastic but I don't believe that, I'm firmly pro-science.

    And my point is if one of those columnists you refer to is criticising anti-vaxxers today in 2020 then I 100% back that, even if they were gullible enough to fall for Andrew Wakefield's fraud before it was revealed to be fraud.

    Being willing to acknowledge you were wrong in the past is a strength not a weakness.
    And just because you might believe that climate change might be happening, doesn’t mean you have to endorse the shocking deceptions that climategate exposed.
    what shocking deceptions?
  • Options
    MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 755
    kinabalu said:

    Disappointed it's not going to be Bernie. Biden will doubtless beat Trump - which let's face it is the main thing - but IMO Bernie would have done so too. President Sanders could have been iconic and the necessary game-changer for a country so wealthy and powerful yet with such deeply offensive levels of poverty and inequality. Change is coming - but not quite yet.

    That said, Biden is OK. And compared to the individual he will replace he is the Second Coming. So, yes, I'm totally behind him now. Whatever it takes, including the right medication. C'mon Joe!

    Biden won't beat Trump. Very few people who have held cabinet positions go on the be president, it IS only ex-VP'sn but they either did something special in office, or ran against a VP. Biden is a dafty and his son already caused one president to be impeached.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    IanB2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Would your travel insurance pay out if you had to self isolate? How would you prove you had to isolate?

    There are answers to a lot of questions like that on the moneysavingexpert website
    IanB2 said:

    nichomar said:

    Would your travel insurance pay out if you had to self isolate? How would you prove you had to isolate?

    There are answers to a lot of questions like that on the moneysavingexpert website
    Not that I’m going anywhere but was wondering.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,599
    kamski said:

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Wakefield's infamous paper linking MMR with autism, and the accompanying press conference, occurred in 1998. Even if you didn't know he was an actual fraud in 2004, the scientific consensus against his 'findings' was massive by that time. Unfortunately, too many uniformed journalists presented him as a Galileo figure up until, and even beyond, his exposure as a crook.
    Indeed I 100% agree. But the GMC was still accepting him as a Doctor, the Lancet only retracted the findings in 2004 (I don't know whether that was before or after the 2004 article quoted) etc

    It was silly but somewhat understandable to believe Doctor Wakefield in 2004 (especially before the Lancet retracted his findings that year).

    It is stupid beyond all belief to believe the fraudulent struck off Andrew Wakefield in 2020.
    Yes but everyone knows scientists are all lying lefties, as seen in Climategate and revealed by retired Tory politicians and right-leaning columnists.
    I know you're being sarcastic but I don't believe that, I'm firmly pro-science.

    And my point is if one of those columnists you refer to is criticising anti-vaxxers today in 2020 then I 100% back that, even if they were gullible enough to fall for Andrew Wakefield's fraud before it was revealed to be fraud.

    Being willing to acknowledge you were wrong in the past is a strength not a weakness.
    And just because you might believe that climate change might be happening, doesn’t mean you have to endorse the shocking deceptions that climategate exposed.
    what shocking deceptions?
    Presumably the selective quoting absent all context in some of the reporting?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193
    moonshine said:


    Seems to me that the government’s advice since Monday has vindicated Eadric. Sure, they were a bit more sober but the underlying message was the same. Containment is nearing an end, a very big proportion of the population will end up catching the virus until herd immunity kicks in and on the best available data, this will cause a pretty unthinkable amount of critical care cases and deaths.

    Interesting that the Singapore govt also gave a more negative message to its public today, telling them that the small handful of daily cases “may not be normal” and to expect a potentially significant increase, because they cannot close the country to foreign travellers indefinitely.

    Meanwhile the Chinese ambassador to UN is talking in terms of “victory”...

    The glimmer as I see it is that the mortality rate may be far lower and infection rate higher than they are supposing. The more I read of the symptoms, the more convinced I am that my family and I might have had it here in Sing. But none of us were tested because apart from my son who recovered quickly, we didn’t have a fever and hadn’t been to China. We were instead told to self isolate and I had to keep going back every 2-3 days for a progress check, since my symptoms were worst.

    I now read that the newest data indicate that fever is only prevalent in 85% of cases. And potentially fewer, if having a fever has been a typical hurdle to meet before being tested. Yet I had pretty much every other symptom of mild infection. Chest pain, awful breathlessness, fatigue, persistent shallow cough, initial sore throat etc... But I’ll probably never know now.

    The data from the Diamond Princess should give some encouragement too. A ship of old people and still only 6 deaths out of 705 cases. Sure, lots of cases remain unresolved but this is not at the 8-10% end of the spectrum one might expect given the probable demographics.

    Worth getting tested to see if you have the antibodies? If you do, it might be of help foro the authorities in tracking down where you came into contact with it.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,340
    Selebian said:

    kamski said:

    I hold no truck with anti-vaxers who are the lowest of the low but to be fair in 2004 the MMR bullshit was being taken seriously by far too many otherwise intelligent people and Andrew Wakefield was still being taken seriously as a doctor.

    It was only in November 2004 that Dispatches revealed the extent of Wakefield's fraud and he was only struck off by the GMC 6 years after that.

    So someone gullible enough to fall for Wakefield's bullshit (as even the Lancet had done!) earlier in 2004 isn't remotely as comprehensively stupid as someone who believes it in 2020.
    Wakefield's infamous paper linking MMR with autism, and the accompanying press conference, occurred in 1998. Even if you didn't know he was an actual fraud in 2004, the scientific consensus against his 'findings' was massive by that time. Unfortunately, too many uniformed journalists presented him as a Galileo figure up until, and even beyond, his exposure as a crook.
    Indeed I 100% agree. But the GMC was still accepting him as a Doctor, the Lancet only retracted the findings in 2004 (I don't know whether that was before or after the 2004 article quoted) etc

    It was silly but somewhat understandable to believe Doctor Wakefield in 2004 (especially before the Lancet retracted his findings that year).

    It is stupid beyond all belief to believe the fraudulent struck off Andrew Wakefield in 2020.
    Yes but everyone knows scientists are all lying lefties, as seen in Climategate and revealed by retired Tory politicians and right-leaning columnists.
    I know you're being sarcastic but I don't believe that, I'm firmly pro-science.

    And my point is if one of those columnists you refer to is criticising anti-vaxxers today in 2020 then I 100% back that, even if they were gullible enough to fall for Andrew Wakefield's fraud before it was revealed to be fraud.

    Being willing to acknowledge you were wrong in the past is a strength not a weakness.
    And just because you might believe that climate change might be happening, doesn’t mean you have to endorse the shocking deceptions that climategate exposed.
    what shocking deceptions?
    Presumably the selective quoting absent all context in some of the reporting?
    That was what I thought, but northernpowerhouse's wording implies something else
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,267

    As I mentioned last night. Cases in Cumbria. The nhs have confirmed a nurse has been diagnosed. But self isolated returning from Italy.

    There are 2 cases in Carlisle: husband and wife.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:


    Seems to me that the government’s advice since Monday has vindicated Eadric. Sure, they were a bit more sober but the underlying message was the same. Containment is nearing an end, a very big proportion of the population will end up catching the virus until herd immunity kicks in and on the best available data, this will cause a pretty unthinkable amount of critical care cases and deaths.

    Interesting that the Singapore govt also gave a more negative message to its public today, telling them that the small handful of daily cases “may not be normal” and to expect a potentially significant increase, because they cannot close the country to foreign travellers indefinitely.

    Meanwhile the Chinese ambassador to UN is talking in terms of “victory”...

    The glimmer as I see it is that the mortality rate may be far lower and infection rate higher than they are supposing. The more I read of the symptoms, the more convinced I am that my family and I might have had it here in Sing. But none of us were tested because apart from my son who recovered quickly, we didn’t have a fever and hadn’t been to China. We were instead told to self isolate and I had to keep going back every 2-3 days for a progress check, since my symptoms were worst.

    I now read that the newest data indicate that fever is only prevalent in 85% of cases. And potentially fewer, if having a fever has been a typical hurdle to meet before being tested. Yet I had pretty much every other symptom of mild infection. Chest pain, awful breathlessness, fatigue, persistent shallow cough, initial sore throat etc... But I’ll probably never know now.

    The data from the Diamond Princess should give some encouragement too. A ship of old people and still only 6 deaths out of 705 cases. Sure, lots of cases remain unresolved but this is not at the 8-10% end of the spectrum one might expect given the probable demographics.

    Bovine manure. The government's mature and measured advice has been the polar opposite of eadric's headless chicken routine.
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Monkeys said:

    kinabalu said:

    Disappointed it's not going to be Bernie. Biden will doubtless beat Trump - which let's face it is the main thing - but IMO Bernie would have done so too. President Sanders could have been iconic and the necessary game-changer for a country so wealthy and powerful yet with such deeply offensive levels of poverty and inequality. Change is coming - but not quite yet.

    That said, Biden is OK. And compared to the individual he will replace he is the Second Coming. So, yes, I'm totally behind him now. Whatever it takes, including the right medication. C'mon Joe!

    Biden won't beat Trump. .
    Coronavirus is the game-changer here, otherwise I'd agree.

    And, no, Sanders wouldn't win. He would be utterly pulverised in the US election. For Americans he's 1000x worse than Corbyn. Not because of terrorist sympathies or anti-semitism but the worst 'S' crime of them all. Socialist.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    What demographic does he add? If he would win blue collar votes in the Midwest it may help, but that's not his base.

    Biden's ideal pick would probably be a Latino woman. But absent any realistic chance of that he could go for Beto.
    Same question: what does Beto add? My guess is when the veep pick is announced there will be a race to google the representative for the Great State of Wazoo. Bonus smart-arse points for those who remember which law exam that state featured in.
    Spoiler: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/files/conlaw3.obama.1996.fall.pdf
    Hey, as I said the Dems don't have much to work with.

    Beto has much more history working on the Latino vote, and could take charge of that push. Although in many ways he's a moderate, he's not totally hated by the Left. Also someone from outside the North/Northeast.

    VP picks are rarely people who could overshadow the president.

    The alternatives seem to bring less.

    Biden has Black support so why pick Abrams? Besides she's trumpeted as a rising star, VP is not the ideal position to advance from.

    Biden eats the Butt/Klob vote so no need for them.

    Warren? Olive branch to the Left maybe, but she's ambitious and would not be controllable.
    Abrams rising star might shine a whole lot brighter if the Pres keels over during the next four years (and not even dies - 25th Amendment territory).

    I'd be quite chipper about my prospects if I were picked as Biden's VP.....
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,051
    California may well work out very well for Sanders delegate numbers.

    Assuming Bloomberg misses out on statewide viability, which looks likely given how much LA county vote is outstanding it all depends how many counties he is viable in.

    50 delegates say gives the remainder to Sanders/Biden on their vote split less the remainder.

    Going 34 - 25 to Sanders statewide produces 58% of the delegates gives 83 delegates.
    Assuming Bloomberg is viable in 50% of CDs, 34-25-16 Sanders gets 45% in those he is viable in and 58% in those he isn't.
    So 52% say as a weighted avg.
    That's 143 delgates.

    So 226 Sanders, 139 Biden, 50 Bloomberg.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    moonshine said:


    Seems to me that the government’s advice since Monday has vindicated Eadric. Sure, they were a bit more sober but the underlying message was the same. Containment is nearing an end, a very big proportion of the population will end up catching the virus until herd immunity kicks in and on the best available data, this will cause a pretty unthinkable amount of critical care cases and deaths.

    Interesting that the Singapore govt also gave a more negative message to its public today, telling them that the small handful of daily cases “may not be normal” and to expect a potentially significant increase, because they cannot close the country to foreign travellers indefinitely.

    Meanwhile the Chinese ambassador to UN is talking in terms of “victory”...

    The glimmer as I see it is that the mortality rate may be far lower and infection rate higher than they are supposing. The more I read of the symptoms, the more convinced I am that my family and I might have had it here in Sing. But none of us were tested because apart from my son who recovered quickly, we didn’t have a fever and hadn’t been to China. We were instead told to self isolate and I had to keep going back every 2-3 days for a progress check, since my symptoms were worst.

    I now read that the newest data indicate that fever is only prevalent in 85% of cases. And potentially fewer, if having a fever has been a typical hurdle to meet before being tested. Yet I had pretty much every other symptom of mild infection. Chest pain, awful breathlessness, fatigue, persistent shallow cough, initial sore throat etc... But I’ll probably never know now.

    The data from the Diamond Princess should give some encouragement too. A ship of old people and still only 6 deaths out of 705 cases. Sure, lots of cases remain unresolved but this is not at the 8-10% end of the spectrum one might expect given the probable demographics.

    Worldometer says 36 Diamond P cases are serious or critical. If half of those die (seems conservative) that's a CFR of 3.4%. As you say, how encouraging that looks depends on average age of patient. I don't know how true the perception is that they were all in their 80s.
  • Options
    MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 755

    Monkeys said:

    kinabalu said:

    Disappointed it's not going to be Bernie. Biden will doubtless beat Trump - which let's face it is the main thing - but IMO Bernie would have done so too. President Sanders could have been iconic and the necessary game-changer for a country so wealthy and powerful yet with such deeply offensive levels of poverty and inequality. Change is coming - but not quite yet.

    That said, Biden is OK. And compared to the individual he will replace he is the Second Coming. So, yes, I'm totally behind him now. Whatever it takes, including the right medication. C'mon Joe!

    Biden won't beat Trump. .
    Coronavirus is the game-changer here, otherwise I'd agree.

    And, no, Sanders wouldn't win. He would be utterly pulverised in the US election. For Americans he's 1000x worse than Corbyn. Not because of terrorist sympathies or anti-semitism but the worst 'S' crime of them all. Socialist.
    I reckon coronavirus is anti-immigration hence pro-Trump. Dems win 2024 and they can put healthcare in then. I agree it's being handled terribly though.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Buttigieg for Veep?

    What demographic does he add? If he would win blue collar votes in the Midwest it may help, but that's not his base.

    Biden's ideal pick would probably be a Latino woman. But absent any realistic chance of that he could go for Beto.
    Same question: what does Beto add? My guess is when the veep pick is announced there will be a race to google the representative for the Great State of Wazoo. Bonus smart-arse points for those who remember which law exam that state featured in.
    Spoiler: https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/files/conlaw3.obama.1996.fall.pdf
    Hey, as I said the Dems don't have much to work with.

    Beto has much more history working on the Latino vote, and could take charge of that push. Although in many ways he's a moderate, he's not totally hated by the Left. Also someone from outside the North/Northeast.

    VP picks are rarely people who could overshadow the president.

    The alternatives seem to bring less.

    Biden has Black support so why pick Abrams? Besides she's trumpeted as a rising star, VP is not the ideal position to advance from.

    Biden eats the Butt/Klob vote so no need for them.

    Warren? Olive branch to the Left maybe, but she's ambitious and would not be controllable.
    Abrams rising star might shine a whole lot brighter if the Pres keels over during the next four years (and not even dies - 25th Amendment territory).

    I'd be quite chipper about my prospects if I were picked as Biden's VP.....
    If Trump fails to be re-elected he will be only the second first-term incumbent from his party seeking election to fail since the started of the 20th century. Trump, his general awfulness and coronavirus certainly make that possible - just as the Iran Hostage Crisis arguably made it possible for the only example Carter to lose.

    So if the Democrats win this time (big if!) I'd make them very heavy odds on to win in 2024 and I can't see Biden running again in 2024 even if he makes it that far. So his Veep should be odds on favourite for next President from the day after Biden is elected if he is.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,338

    Amazingly Clinton is now in to 40/1

    That’s absolutely barmy.

    A decrepit Biden is going to be the Democrat candidate. That is also absolutely barmy.
    He appears to be promising cures for cancer, Alzheimer’s and diabetes.

    https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/1235063098928590848?s=21
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959
    I wonder what the 538 forecast will say when they unfreeze it? They had Biden at 31% to win a majority before and he exceeded their model fairly clearly, so I reckon a 50-60% chance of a majority for him which firms up to more if national polling begins to give him clear leads.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,340

    FPT

    eristdoof said:

    Chameleon said:

    BigRich said:

    eadric said:

    That's mildly encouraging. No community transmission, all traced.

    Come on Britain. Keep it up.
    Do we know how may people are being tested in the UK every day? and how does that compare to other contrary's? I know its very low in the US but what about elsewhere?
    We're the world leader in the number of tests done by nations with sub 1000 cases.
    But behind Austria and Switzerland in tests per million population.

    Absolute numbers tested:

    South Korea 109,591
    Italy 23,345
    Austria 2,120
    Switzerland 1,850
    UK 13,525
    Finland 130
    Vietnam 1,737
    Turkey 940
    United States 472
    Is this the full list down to 472 tests in one country? If so the lack of testing in Germany and France both with around 200 cases is shockingly low.
    That is the full list for above 200 for 2 March from Worldometers. The US figure has a note saying it's for 1 March because the US CDC removed the "numbers tested" figure from its website.

    CDC have an explanation:

    "CDC is no longer reporting the number of persons under investigation (PUIs) that have been tested, as well as PUIs that have tested negative. Now that states are testing and reporting their own results, CDC’s numbers are not representative all of testing being done nationwide."

    Why bother having a national centre for disease control if it doesn't collect this information? I am not sure what the word "representative" is doing there either. The Union can operate a centralised army to protect its interests, but it can't centralise information about what the 50 states are doing to slow the growth of an epidemic.

    Further down the road, could this be the end of the Union?
    I don't know about France but there have certainly been more than 472 tests carried out in Germany, although I know anecdotally that they are not testing enough in my opinion. I can't find any numbers.
  • Options
    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    Germany's figures have about a day of lag between states reporting and the Robert Koch institute doing so. Up to 300 now.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    Amazingly Clinton is now in to 40/1

    That’s absolutely barmy.

    A decrepit Biden is going to be the Democrat candidate. That is also absolutely barmy.
    He appears to be promising cures for cancer, Alzheimer’s and diabetes.

    https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/1235063098928590848?s=21
    He'll promise you anything if you give him a cup of tea and a biscuit....
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited March 2020
    Monkeys said:

    Monkeys said:

    kinabalu said:

    Disappointed it's not going to be Bernie. Biden will doubtless beat Trump - which let's face it is the main thing - but IMO Bernie would have done so too. President Sanders could have been iconic and the necessary game-changer for a country so wealthy and powerful yet with such deeply offensive levels of poverty and inequality. Change is coming - but not quite yet.

    That said, Biden is OK. And compared to the individual he will replace he is the Second Coming. So, yes, I'm totally behind him now. Whatever it takes, including the right medication. C'mon Joe!

    Biden won't beat Trump. .
    Coronavirus is the game-changer here, otherwise I'd agree.

    And, no, Sanders wouldn't win. He would be utterly pulverised in the US election. For Americans he's 1000x worse than Corbyn. Not because of terrorist sympathies or anti-semitism but the worst 'S' crime of them all. Socialist.
    I reckon coronavirus is anti-immigration hence pro-Trump. Dems win 2024 and they can put healthcare in then. I agree it's being handled terribly though.
    It’s tourism rather than immigration That’s the key spreader at the moment particularly from Italy. The next biggest spreader is going to be large events like football matches. To be honest I don’t know why they don’t just suspend them for two months. Costly yes but far better being in front of the game. The same should happen with the Fallas, Semana Santa parades and similar events.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,051
    Biden's surge has probably helped Sanders in California.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,959

    Amazingly Clinton is now in to 40/1

    That’s absolutely barmy.

    A decrepit Biden is going to be the Democrat candidate. That is also absolutely barmy.
    He appears to be promising cures for cancer, Alzheimer’s and diabetes.

    https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/1235063098928590848?s=21
    While it's not his strongest point, if you needed to be a smooth public speaker who never made rash promises to be elected then Trump wouldn't be sitting in the White House.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,535
    Quincel said:

    I wonder what the 538 forecast will say when they unfreeze it? They had Biden at 31% to win a majority before and he exceeded their model fairly clearly, so I reckon a 50-60% chance of a majority for him which firms up to more if national polling begins to give him clear leads.

    Betfair is now clear odds on a delegate majority for somebody.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,260
    IshmaelZ said:

    moonshine said:


    Seems to me that the government’s advice since Monday has vindicated Eadric. Sure, they were a bit more sober but the underlying message was the same. Containment is nearing an end, a very big proportion of the population will end up catching the virus until herd immunity kicks in and on the best available data, this will cause a pretty unthinkable amount of critical care cases and deaths.

    Interesting that the Singapore govt also gave a more negative message to its public today, telling them that the small handful of daily cases “may not be normal” and to expect a potentially significant increase, because they cannot close the country to foreign travellers indefinitely.

    Meanwhile the Chinese ambassador to UN is talking in terms of “victory”...

    The glimmer as I see it is that the mortality rate may be far lower and infection rate higher than they are supposing. The more I read of the symptoms, the more convinced I am that my family and I might have had it here in Sing. But none of us were tested because apart from my son who recovered quickly, we didn’t have a fever and hadn’t been to China. We were instead told to self isolate and I had to keep going back every 2-3 days for a progress check, since my symptoms were worst.

    I now read that the newest data indicate that fever is only prevalent in 85% of cases. And potentially fewer, if having a fever has been a typical hurdle to meet before being tested. Yet I had pretty much every other symptom of mild infection. Chest pain, awful breathlessness, fatigue, persistent shallow cough, initial sore throat etc... But I’ll probably never know now.

    The data from the Diamond Princess should give some encouragement too. A ship of old people and still only 6 deaths out of 705 cases. Sure, lots of cases remain unresolved but this is not at the 8-10% end of the spectrum one might expect given the probable demographics.

    Worldometer says 36 Diamond P cases are serious or critical. If half of those die (seems conservative) that's a CFR of 3.4%. As you say, how encouraging that looks depends on average age of patient. I don't know how true the perception is that they were all in their 80s.
    Not seen many pictures of cruise ships where more than a handful looked under 80
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    Are there any super delegates this primary season?
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    malcolmg said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    moonshine said:


    Seems to me that the government’s advice since Monday has vindicated Eadric. Sure, they were a bit more sober but the underlying message was the same. Containment is nearing an end, a very big proportion of the population will end up catching the virus until herd immunity kicks in and on the best available data, this will cause a pretty unthinkable amount of critical care cases and deaths.

    Interesting that the Singapore govt also gave a more negative message to its public today, telling them that the small handful of daily cases “may not be normal” and to expect a potentially significant increase, because they cannot close the country to foreign travellers indefinitely.

    Meanwhile the Chinese ambassador to UN is talking in terms of “victory”...

    The glimmer as I see it is that the mortality rate may be far lower and infection rate higher than they are supposing. The more I read of the symptoms, the more convinced I am that my family and I might have had it here in Sing. But none of us were tested because apart from my son who recovered quickly, we didn’t have a fever and hadn’t been to China. We were instead told to self isolate and I had to keep going back every 2-3 days for a progress check, since my symptoms were worst.

    I now read that the newest data indicate that fever is only prevalent in 85% of cases. And potentially fewer, if having a fever has been a typical hurdle to meet before being tested. Yet I had pretty much every other symptom of mild infection. Chest pain, awful breathlessness, fatigue, persistent shallow cough, initial sore throat etc... But I’ll probably never know now.

    The data from the Diamond Princess should give some encouragement too. A ship of old people and still only 6 deaths out of 705 cases. Sure, lots of cases remain unresolved but this is not at the 8-10% end of the spectrum one might expect given the probable demographics.

    Worldometer says 36 Diamond P cases are serious or critical. If half of those die (seems conservative) that's a CFR of 3.4%. As you say, how encouraging that looks depends on average age of patient. I don't know how true the perception is that they were all in their 80s.
    Not seen many pictures of cruise ships where more than a handful looked under 80
    Average age of cruise passenger is around 46 apparently as discussed yesterday but not all cruises are like the Diamond P which attracts an older market.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,051
    NYTimes Est delegates

    Joseph R. Biden Jr.
    670

    Bernie Sanders
    589

    Michael R. Bloomberg
    104

    Elizabeth Warren
    97

    Where is Warren getting her delegates from ?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Amazingly Clinton is now in to 40/1

    That’s absolutely barmy.

    A decrepit Biden is going to be the Democrat candidate. That is also absolutely barmy.
    He appears to be promising cures for cancer, Alzheimer’s and diabetes.

    https://twitter.com/mooncult/status/1235063098928590848?s=21
    Not without precedence. Obama promised a cure for cancer in his State of the Union which was itself what Sam Seaborne wanted Jed Bartlett to do in the West Wing.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited March 2020

    Monkeys said:

    kinabalu said:

    Disappointed it's not going to be Bernie. Biden will doubtless beat Trump - which let's face it is the main thing - but IMO Bernie would have done so too. President Sanders could have been iconic and the necessary game-changer for a country so wealthy and powerful yet with such deeply offensive levels of poverty and inequality. Change is coming - but not quite yet.

    That said, Biden is OK. And compared to the individual he will replace he is the Second Coming. So, yes, I'm totally behind him now. Whatever it takes, including the right medication. C'mon Joe!

    Biden won't beat Trump. .
    Coronavirus is the game-changer here, otherwise I'd agree.

    And, no, Sanders wouldn't win. He would be utterly pulverised in the US election. For Americans he's 1000x worse than Corbyn. Not because of terrorist sympathies or anti-semitism but the worst 'S' crime of them all. Socialist.
    This is his definitive problem. To a certain extent he just needs to recast himself in the historical tradition he actually is in, which is FDR and the new deal in the wake of old-style religious-inspired populism, which he speaks the language of, rather than "european socialism", but he would have to tread carefully on this, with his stock-in-trade of not shifting any positions. On balance he would benefit from this, but it's probably too late.
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